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News : LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an 'orderly separation'
Posted by David Virtue on 2008/8/2 17:40:00 (3551 reads)

LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an 'orderly separation'

Senior church of England bishops have challenged the Archbishop of Canterbury to declare a split in the Anglican Communion for the sake of orthodox Christianity.

By Jonathan Wynne-Jones, Religious Affairs Correspondent
The Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2490833/Bishops-ask--Archbishop-of-Canterbury-for-an-orderly-separation.html
August 2 2008

They said that the Archbishop, Dr Rowan Williams, would fail to avert a schism because liberals were determined to press ahead with their pro-gay agenda.

Instead, they called on Dr Williams to acknowledge that there were now two distinct Churches and negotiate an "orderly separation" to preserve a traditional identity for Anglicanism.

Liberals warned that such an action could lead to civil war in the Church.

The comments from the bishops of Winchester and Exeter, came as bishops at the Lambeth Conference released their final briefing paper on plans to solve the crisis over homosexuality.

Among the key proposals, they suggest a new framework that could censure rebellious Churches and a central "pastoral forum" to settle disputes.

However, the Rt Rev Michael Scott-Joynt, the Bishop of Winchester, said that the Archbishop's plan to maintain unity lacked a sense of urgency and was unlikely to work.

"The Lambeth Conference is required to do something rather than live down to the worst expectations of the bishops who stayed away," he said.

"We need to negotiate a separation in the Communion sooner rather than later, to leave the strongest possibility of remaining in some kind of fellowship."

Bishop Scott-Joynt said that he was concerned that traditional Churches in Africa would break away unless the Lambeth Conference delivers a clear definition of what Anglicanism represents in the final report.

About 250 bishops have boycotted the conference and undermined the authority of the Archbishop of Canterbury by setting up a movement that could appeal to bishops disillusioned with an unsatisfactory outcome to the summit

"The most unhealthy thing would be to allow the debate to continue for a long time," said Bishop Scott-Joynt. "We would have only ourselves to blame if more of the provinces go their own way."

His fears were echoed by the Rt Rev Michael Langrish, the Bishop of Exeter, who accused America's Episcopal Church, which consecrated Anglicanism's first openly gay bishop, of being selfish and establishing a rival Church.

He said: "The vast majority want to take steps towards restoring Communion, but a smaller group base the language of Communion on feelings - what it means to me, what can I get from it."

Bishop Langrish said that there was an "inexorable logic" that there should be one core Communion with the more liberal Churches pushed to the margins.

He added: "A major question is how we move towards that point - the highest degree of fellowship whilst allowing for an orderly separation."

However, such a split would not only affect the Anglican Communion, but would threaten the unity of the Church of England, which is also bitterly divided.

The Rev Giles Goddard, the chairman of Inclusive Church, a liberal lobbying group, accused the bishops of trying to derail the report.

"The traditionalists are in the minority and an increasing number in the Church of England would side with the American Church now," he said. "The people in the pew wonder what all the fuss is about."

Bishop Scott-Joynt cast doubt on plans for an Anglican Covenant, or rule book of beliefs, which Dr Williams hopes will bind the Communion together behind a shared set of tenets.

"My greatest worry about the covenant is who'll still be around to use it," he said.

The final report from the bishops said that the Covenant would be "costly and self-limiting", but that there is an "overall willingness" for it to happen.

They added that "there have been positive effects in parts of Canada, the US and England when homosexual people are accepted as God's children, and are treated with dignity".

END

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Poster Thread
Cennydd
Posted: 2008/8/2 21:38  Updated: 2008/8/2 21:38
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6684
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
It's coming. The schism which none of us really wanted, but which is being forced upon us is near. It is coming because of the actions of a relatively small group of men and women who are absolutely bound and determined to have their own way and to shove their sinful and degrading lifestyle down the throats of the majority without so much as a "by your leave!"

Bishop Langrish is quite right in accusing The Episcopal Church of "being selfish and establishing a rival Church." In fact, they have already done just exactly that! They have been aided and abetted by "Integrity" and "Claiming the Blessing," the two leading guilty groups, and "Via Media," their front organization.

The Episcopal Church is now, for all intents and purposes, "The Episcopal Communion," with itself at the center of sixteen overseas branches. There is no point in trying to avoid the obvious and sidestepping the issue any longer.

England is now facing the same problem, and they are about to pay the piper as well. It will do Rowan Cantuar no good to continue to stick his head in the sand and hope the problem will "go away." It won't!

It is OVER, Your Grace! ALL OVER!

It's time to move on.

Cennydd
daveball
Posted: 2008/8/2 21:57  Updated: 2008/8/2 21:57
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/12/18
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2281
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
Well, well. Some of the purple shirts are just beginning to realize that there are consequences to the selfish and godless acts of the liberal part of the ex-communion. It is apparently just dawning on a few that the Africans and the western orthodox really do mean business and that the tactics of the pink parade folks at Lambeth have absolutely backfired. They have sealed the demise of the communion and alienated some of the fence sitters that may have tacitly put up with them in the past.

Of course the CofE is threatened. It suffers the same divide as the American church but it has an additional burden of being an established church and parishes and dioceses can't just "quite".

It is also apparently beginning to dawn on some that the Windsor Continuation Group and the Covenant will deliver whatever output they come up with to empty and locked buildings. I truly believe that it will not take the Africans and other orthodox long, perhaps just weeks or a couple months, to administer the coup d'grace to the sick and ailing Canterbury/TEc communion.
pgcfriend
Posted: 2008/8/2 22:52  Updated: 2008/8/2 22:52
Just popping in
Joined: 2007/4/24
From:
Posts: 13
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
I'm sure there are harder days to come. However I rejoice for those that are standing strong for the gospel of Jesus Christ and refuse to be deterred by the vile perverted rhetoric being hurled against them. Remember whenever you hear the word 'tolerance' true Bible believing Christians best know that they are in for severe religious persecution. The split is inevitable. Bite the bullet and separate from a false church. The Bible does not support arguing and discussing with leaders that teach false doctrine. The Bible says to leave, depart, flee, etc. May the Lord be with you all.
warmac9999
Posted: 2008/8/2 23:41  Updated: 2008/8/2 23:41
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/2/16
From:
Posts: 1447
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
An orderly separation is happening at the level of the laity. The disorderly separation is happening at the level of the bishops. There is no question that the TEC, ACoC and the liberal revisionists in the UK will eventually disappear. The only question is whether they will take the rest of the Anglican Communion with them.

The comment by Bishop Scott-Joynt concerning the Anglican covenant plan is most appropriate. There is nobody who will use it and it is pretty obvious that this is nothing but another Windsor game designed to delay the inevitable.
patulous
Posted: 2008/8/3 1:07  Updated: 2008/8/3 1:10
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/5/18
From:
Posts: 1746
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
Well, isn't this what we all have been saying for the last 4 years????

How could anyone believe that liberals from the far side could even communicate intelligently with conservatives of the truth(force) .

The last line says that there are positive effects when homosexual people are accepted as God's children.......all are God's children, but not all are serving God. Nor are those that are actively homosexuals serving God as God wants and are lost souls.
Peregrino
Posted: 2008/8/3 2:03  Updated: 2008/8/3 2:03
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2008/2/13
From:
Posts: 27
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
From an outside perspective, I think the structure has come down rapidly but there is so much dust in the air that those who will not see do not realize it. The Anglican Communion is perhaps the first of many to implode. Where will we all be and how will we stand together as Christians when other institutions do the same?
ctowles
Posted: 2008/8/3 12:30  Updated: 2008/8/3 12:30
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/12/4
From:
Posts: 477
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
"The people in the pew wonder what all the fuss is about." Rev Giles Goddard, the chairman of Inclusive Church

That is why you call them sheep and presume to speak for them, Reverend.
Cennydd
Posted: 2008/8/3 13:00  Updated: 2008/8/3 13:01
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6684
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
The answer to Fr Goddard's question should be perfectly obvious to anyone who's kept their finger on the pulse of the Church throughout the Communion these past few years.

The problem is that so many haven't bothered, and they have no one to blame but themselves!

Cennydd
Voyager
Posted: 2008/8/3 15:39  Updated: 2008/8/3 15:39
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/7/30
From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU).
Posts: 1594
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
Of course the CofE is threatened. It suffers the same divide as the American church but it has an additional burden of being an established church and parishes and dioceses can't just "quite".


Not true. It does not suffer the same divide. It currently has separate oversight for parishes that do not accept women priests. It has a strong Anglo-Catholic wing that is often more Roman than Rome - see Forward In Faith. It also has a strong Evangelical wing which is the fastest growing part of the C of E.

The dioceses are not all ancient, and the churches were in many cases built in the 1800s endowed by wealthy landowners with separate covenants. Other churches were taken from the Church of Romer and have no legal status other than the statutes of Henry VIII. The Roman Church could technically begin legal proceedings to recover them if the Church of England were dis-Established.

The fact that churches were founded by Norman invaders after 1066 and throughout the 900 years since makes the issue of parishes and land deeds very intricate and way more complex than in the USA.

There is no uniform ownership of churches in parishes and diocesan authority is completely different from in the USA which does not have a parish structure. Even the British Census is based on parish structures and the Church of England is the only institution with a presence in every village in England.

The Church of England priest is also the Registrar for Marriages and can issue marriage certificates which no other denomination is permitted to do.

Germany has a State Church Tax deducted from income: England does not. Denmark has a Minister of Religion and a State Church - England does not.
Baring-G
Posted: 2008/8/3 20:22  Updated: 2008/8/3 20:22
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2007/8/8
From: Republic of Florida
Posts: 135
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
Reality is beginning to dawn on some Church of England bishops.It is high time to disestablish the Church of England! The lack of provision for those Traditional Anglo-Catholics and Evangelicals is the death knell of the Established Church of England, which closes churches every year, declares them "redundant", sells them to become discos, pubs, restaurants, mosques, pagan temples, etc., but refuses to sell them to local parishes and missions of THE ANGLICAN CATHOLIC CHURCH and other Continuing Anglican church bodies. Fr. Baring-Gould+
daveball
Posted: 2008/8/3 22:31  Updated: 2008/8/3 22:31
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/12/18
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2281
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
Voyager,

Thank you for the enlightenment.

I think what I had in mind was that the CofE has to contend with the issue of homosexual clergy and the fallout from WO, in your case, female priestesses that now want to be bishops. The CofE is an established church and as such, at least as I understand it, the appointment of bishops and archbishops has a distinct connection to secular government. It is also my understanding that a parish or dioces doesn't just leave to somewhere else. You point out some of the potential legal entanglements as far as property.

If I'm incorrect, please educate me.

Blessings.
Damascus
Posted: 2008/8/4 16:35  Updated: 2008/8/4 16:35
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 Re: LAMBETH: Bishops ask Archbishop of Canterbury for an ...
Interesting article on the Bishop of Exeter approving a same-sex blessing in his diocese. It was a retired vicar and his gardener and they gave assurances that their relationship was non-sexual. I guess that I'll have to take them at their word on that one.

Langrish Approves Gay Blessing
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