
STATEMENT ON THE
GLOBAL ANGLICAN FUTURE
Praise the LORD!
It is good to sing praises to our God; for he is gracious, and a song of praise is fitting.
The LORD builds up Jerusalem; he gathers the outcasts of Israel. (Psalm 147:1-2)
Brothers and Sisters in Christ: We, the participants in the Global Anglican Future Conference, send you greetings from Jerusalem!
Introduction
The Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON), which was held in Jerusalem from 22-29 June 2008, is a spiritual movement to preserve and promote the truth and power of the gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ as we Anglicans have received it. The movement is global: it has mobilised Anglicans from around the world. We are
Anglican: 1148 lay and clergy participants, including 291 bishops representing millions of faithful Anglican Christians. We cherish our Anglican heritage and the Anglican Communion and have no intention of departing from it. And we believe that, in God’s providence, Anglicanism has a bright future in obedience to our Lord’s
Great Commission to make disciples of all nations and to build up the church on the foundation of biblical truth (Matthew 28:18-20; Ephesians 2:20).
GAFCON is not just a moment in time, but a movement in the Spirit, and we hereby:
- launch the GAFCON movement as a fellowship of confessing Anglicans
- Publish the Jerusalem Declaration as the basis of the fellowship
- Recognise GAFCON Primates’ Council.
The Global Anglican Context
The future of the Anglican Communion is but a piece of the wider scenario of opportunities and challenges for the gospel in 21st century global culture. We rejoice in the way God has opened doors for gospel mission among many peoples, but we grieve for the spiritual decline in the most economically developed nations, where the forces of militant secularism and pluralism are eating away the fabric of society and churches are compromised and enfeebled in their witness. The vacuum left by them is readily filled by other faiths and deceptive cults. To meet these challenges will require Christians to work together to understand and oppose these forces and to liberate those under their sway. It will entail the planting of new churches among unreached peoples and also committed action to restore authentic Christianity to compromised churches.
The Anglican Communion, present in six continents, is well positioned to address this challenge, but currently it is divided and distracted. The Global Anglican Future Conference emerged in response to a crisis within the Anglican Communion, a crisis involving three undeniable facts concerning world Anglicanism.
The first fact is the acceptance and promotion within the provinces of the Anglican Communion of a different ‘gospel’ (cf. Galatians 1:6-8) which is contrary to the apostolic gospel. This false gospel undermines the authority of God’s Word written and the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as the author of salvation from sin, death and judgement. Many of its proponents claim that all religions offer equal access to God and that Jesus is only a way, not the way, the truth and the life. It promotes a variety of sexual preferences and immoral behaviour as a universal human right. It claims God’s blessing for same-sex unions over against the biblical teaching on holy matrimony. In 2003 this false gospel led to the consecration of a bishop living in a homosexual relationship.
The second fact is the declaration by provincial bodies in the Global South that they are out of communion with bishops and churches that promote this false gospel. These declarations have resulted in a realignment whereby faithful Anglican Christians have left existing territorial parishes, dioceses and provinces in certain Western churches and become members of other dioceses and provinces, all within the Anglican Communion. These actions have also led to the appointment of new Anglican bishops set over geographic areas already occupied by other Anglican bishops. A major realignment has occurred and will continue to unfold.
The third fact is the manifest failure of the Communion Instruments to exercise discipline in the face of overt heterodoxy. The Episcopal Church USA and the Anglican Church of Canada, in proclaiming this false gospel, have consistently defied the 1998 Lambeth statement of biblical moral principle (Resolution 1.10). Despite numerous meetings and reports to and from the ‘Instruments of Unity,’ no effective action has been taken, and the bishops of these unrepentant churches are welcomed to Lambeth 2008. To make matters worse, there has been a failure to honour promises of discipline, the authority of the Primates’ Meeting has been undermined and the Lambeth Conference has been structured so as to avoid any hard decisions. We can only come to the devastating conclusion that ‘we are a global Communion with a colonial structure’.
Sadly, this crisis has torn the fabric of the Communion in such a way that it cannot simply be patched back together. At the same time, it has brought together many Anglicans across the globe into personal and pastoral relationships in a fellowship which is faithful to biblical teaching, more representative of the demographic distribution of global Anglicanism today and stronger as an instrument of effective mission, ministry and social involvement.
A Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans
We, the participants in the Global Anglican Future Conference, are a fellowship of confessing Anglicans for the benefit of the Church and the furtherance of its mission. We are a fellowship of people united in the communion (koinonia) of the one Spirit and committed to work and pray together in the common mission of Christ. It is a confessing fellowship in that its members confess the faith of Christ crucified, stand firm for the gospel in the global and Anglican context, and affirm a contemporary rule, the Jerusalem Declaration, to guide the movement for the future. We are a fellowship of Anglicans, including provinces, dioceses, churches, missionary jurisdictions, para-church organisations and individual Anglican Christians whose goal is to reform, heal and revitalise the Anglican Communion and expand its mission to the world.
Our fellowship is not breaking away from the Anglican Communion. We, together with many other faithful Anglicans throughout the world, believe the doctrinal foundation of Anglicanism, which defines our core identity as Anglicans, is expressed in these words: The doctrine of the Church is grounded in the Holy Scriptures and in such teachings of the ancient Fathers and Councils of the Church as are agreeable to the said Scriptures. In particular, such doctrine is to be found in the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion, the Book of Common Prayer and the Ordinal. We intend to remain faithful to this standard, and we call on others in the Communion to reaffirm and return to it. While acknowledging the nature of Canterbury as an historic see, we do not accept that Anglican identity is determined necessarily through recognition by the Archbishop of Canterbury. Building on the above doctrinal foundation of Anglican identity, we hereby publish the Jerusalem Declaration as the basis of our fellowship.
The Jerusalem Declaration
In the name of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit:
We, the participants in the Global Anglican Future Conference, have met in the land of Jesus’ birth. We express our loyalty as disciples to the King of kings, the Lord Jesus. We joyfully embrace his command to proclaim the reality of his kingdom which he first announced in this land. The gospel of the kingdom is the good news of salvation, liberation and transformation for all. In light of the above, we agree to chart a way forward together that promotes and protects the biblical gospel and mission to the world, solemnly declaring the following tenets of orthodoxy which underpin our Anglican identity.
1. We rejoice in the gospel of God through which we have been saved by grace through faith in Jesus
Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. Because God first loved us, we love him and as believers bring
forth fruits of love, ongoing repentance, lively hope and thanksgiving to God in all things.
2. We believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the Word of God written and to
contain all things necessary for salvation. The Bible is to be translated, read, preached, taught and
obeyed in its plain and canonical sense, respectful of the church’s historic and consensual reading.
3. We uphold the four Ecumenical Councils and the three historic Creeds as expressing the rule of faith of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
4. We uphold the Thirty-nine Articles as containing the true doctrine of the Church agreeing with God’s
Word and as authoritative for Anglicans today.
5. We gladly proclaim and submit to the unique and universal Lordship of Jesus Christ, the Son of God,
humanity’s only Saviour from sin, judgement and hell, who lived the life we could not live and died the
death that we deserve. By his atoning death and glorious resurrection, he secured the redemption of all
who come to him in repentance and faith.
6. We rejoice in our Anglican sacramental and liturgical heritage as an expression of the gospel, and we
uphold the 1662 Book of Common Prayer as a true and authoritative standard of worship and prayer, to
be translated and locally adapted for each culture.
7. We recognise that God has called and gifted bishops, priests and deacons in historic succession to equip all the people of God for their ministry in the world. We uphold the classic Anglican Ordinal as an authoritative standard of clerical orders.
8. We acknowledge God’s creation of humankind as male and female and the unchangeable standard of
Christian marriage between one man and one woman as the proper place for sexual intimacy and the
basis of the family. We repent of our failures to maintain this standard and call for a renewed
commitment to lifelong fidelity in marriage and abstinence for those who are not married.
9. We gladly accept the Great Commission of the risen Lord to make disciples of all nations, to seek those
who do not know Christ and to baptise, teach and bring new believers to maturity.
10. We are mindful of our responsibility to be good stewards of God’s creation, to uphold and advocate
justice in society, and to seek relief and empowerment of the poor and needy.
11. We are committed to the unity of all those who know and love Christ and to building authentic
ecumenical relationships. We recognise the orders and jurisdiction of those Anglicans who uphold
orthodox faith and practice, and we encourage them to join us in this declaration.
12. We celebrate the God-given diversity among us which enriches our global fellowship, and we
acknowledge freedom in secondary matters. We pledge to work together to seek the mind of Christ on
issues that divide us.
13. We reject the authority of those churches and leaders who have denied the orthodox faith in word or
deed. We pray for them and call on them to repent and return to the Lord.
14. We rejoice at the prospect of Jesus’ coming again in glory, and while we await this final event of
history, we praise him for the way he builds up his church through his Spirit by miraculously changing
lives.
We believe the Holy Spirit has led us during this week in Jerusalem to begin a new work. There are many important decisions for the development of this fellowship which will take more time, prayer and deliberation. Among other matters, we shall seek to expand participation in this fellowship beyond those who have come to Jerusalem, including cooperation with the Global South and the Council of Anglican Provinces in Africa. We can, however, discern certain milestones on the road ahead.
Primates’ Council
We, the participants in the Global Anglican Future Conference, do hereby acknowledge the participating Primates of GAFCON who have called us together, and encourage them to form the initial Council of the GAFCON movement. We look forward to the enlargement of the Council and entreat the Primates to organise and expand the fellowship of confessing Anglicans.
We urge the Primates’ Council to authenticate and recognise confessing Anglican jurisdictions, clergy and congregations and to encourage all Anglicans to promote the gospel and defend the faith.
We recognise the desirability of territorial jurisdiction for provinces and dioceses of the Anglican Communion, except in those areas where churches and leaders are denying the orthodox faith or are preventing its spread, and in a few areas for which overlapping jurisdictions are beneficial for historical or cultural reasons.
We thank God for the courageous actions of those Primates and provinces who have offered orthodox oversight to churches under false leadership, especially in North and South America. The actions of these Primates have been a positive response to pastoral necessities and mission opportunities. We believe that such actions will continue to be necessary and we support them in offering help around the world.
We believe this is a critical moment when the Primates’ Council will need to put in place structures to lead and support the church. In particular, we believe the time is now ripe for the formation of a province in North America for the federation currently known as Common Cause Partnership to be recognised by the Primates’ Council.
Conclusion: Message from Jerusalem
We, the participants in the Global Anglican Future Conference, were summoned by the Primates’ leadership team to Jerusalem in June 2008 to deliberate on the crisis that has divided the Anglican Communion for the past decade and to seek direction for the future. We have visited holy sites, prayed together, listened to God’s Word preached and expounded, learned from various speakers and teachers, and shared our thoughts and hopes with each other.
The meeting in Jerusalem this week was called in a sense of urgency that a false gospel has so paralysed the Anglican Communion that this crisis must be addressed. The chief threat of this dispute involves the compromising of the integrity of the church’s worldwide mission. The primary reason we have come to Jerusalem and issued this declaration is to free our churches to give clear and certain witness to Jesus Christ.
It is our hope that this Statement on the Global Anglican Future will be received with comfort and joy by many Anglicans around the world who have been distressed about the direction of the Communion. We believe the Anglican Communion should and will be reformed around the biblical gospel and mandate to go into all the world and present Christ to the nations.
Jerusalem
Feast of St Peter and St Paul
29 June 2008
| Poster | Thread |
|---|---|
| GerryH | Posted: 2008/6/30 1:41 Updated: 2008/6/30 1:41 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/2/14 From: Posts: 7 |
We read:
"Our fellowship is not breaking away from the Anglican Communion." Followed by: "While acknowledging the nature of Canterbury as an historic see, we do not accept that Anglican identity is determined necessarily through recognition by the Archbishop of Canterbury." How does the second statement square with the first? Surely the members of the Anglican continuum, who deny and are denied membership in the Anglican Communion, have held the same position? Frankly, this is contradictory, in the light of history, and makes no sense. This is schism in, apparently, all but name, given the history of the Communion. It is a baffling statement. |
| yendor | Posted: 2008/6/30 5:01 Updated: 2008/6/30 5:01 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/11/3 From: Posts: 86 |
"While acknowledging the nature of Canterbury as an historic see, we do not accept that Anglican identity is determined necessarily through recognition by the Archbishop of Canterbury."
I can see no contradiction or cause to be baffled by this simple statement of fact. |
| yendor | Posted: 2008/6/30 8:06 Updated: 2008/6/30 8:06 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/11/3 From: Posts: 86 |
As an outsider, I must say that I haven't come across 'all the bitter invective in the Gafconite Epistles' , but have seen plenty of it from the
other side. Since the Orthodox Anglicans are clearly in the majority, I would say that it is TEC that is being schismatic. The nonsense about Judaizers is just that - irrelevant nonsense. |
| CityTroope | Posted: 2008/6/30 10:03 Updated: 2008/6/30 10:03 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/12/2 From: Rosemont, PA Posts: 148 |
Well GerryH;
Seems you can have it one of two ways. 1. There is more to being an Anglican than the opinion of one man, The ABC, and all those folks are still Angicans as they claim, or 2. 70% to 75% of the Anglican communion just walked out the door and the ABC failed the crown and the Church. Which one do you like more? |
| lkwells | Posted: 2008/6/30 12:20 Updated: 2008/6/30 12:20 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/2/19 From: Posts: 607 |
While there is much that is commendable here, I do wish that GAFCON had affirmed the apostolic ministry by condemning the abomination of WO. The perfect place to do so would have been at #7, "7. We recognise that God has called and gifted bishops, priests and deacons in historic succession to equip all the people of God for their ministry in the world. We uphold the classic Anglican Ordinal as an authoritative standard of clerical orders." This should have been completed: "And we repudiate the falsely pretended
"ordinations" of females as heretical." This would have kept the GAFCON bishops in line with the mainstream of Christianity, but they chose to remain silenton the point--leaving the iota in homoiousion. |
| sentinel | Posted: 2008/6/30 12:35 Updated: 2008/7/1 17:36 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/11 From: Posts: 261 |
TomCubbage,
As is always the case with so called "liberals" and "progressives", your post is nothing more than immature name calling disguised as a coherent, logical argument. About all that was missing from your caustic remarks was calling the GAFCON participants "big poopie heads". Your attempts at equating the Episcopal church's enshrinment of sexual perversion (which you most wickedly refer to as a guidance of the Holy Spirit) with Paul's struggle with the errors of the Judaizers only illustrates how ignorant you are of the Holy Scriptures which you seem to hold in disdain. What Paul was objecting to was the Judaizer's insistance that the gentiles must observe the ceremonial law (circumcision, specifically) in order to be justified. I would direct you to Romans Chapter 3 for a proper understanding of what Paul's views were on this. May God grant that you come to a knowledge of the the Truth. As far as your final statement: Let us reverse that - How much has the Episcopal Church grown since its actions of 2003? Has it seen the explosive growth that was predicted or is it hemoraging members? It would seem that the later is the case. Assuming that this, your first post, isn't just a hit and run kind of thing. I would invite you to hang around and see exactly what is happening - you are not only losing individual members but entire parishes and dioceses. Yes time will tell which will prove to be fruitful but the question is that if you find yourself clinging to a dying vine, will you have the sense to repent? |
| FrSam+ | Posted: 2008/6/30 14:17 Updated: 2008/6/30 14:24 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/7/15 From: Posts: 555 |
"....I do wish that GAFCON had affirmed the apostolic ministry by condemning the abomination of WO".
lkwells, Such a statement on WO from GAFCON would have required a fully orthodox opinion on the theology of Holy Orders. As they are not of one mind on WO they will retain this sacred cow and pay the price. AMiA still has female "deacons", Bishop Duncan still "ordains" women, and Common Cause is dotted with women in collars. I don't hold any hope that the GAFCON statment will do a thing. I think it will fade into the abyss of the many other "Statements" and "Communiques" that have been issued since Vicky Gene was elected. Meeting after meeting for 5 years and the end response is the same each time: more waiting, meetings, and the ever present "communique". It just looks like more lamentation over something that happened in 2003, and in reality, a long time before that. The "partially orthodox" need to realize that you can have an entirely healthy body, but if you retain a cancer in the pinky finger it will infect and kill the whole body. The fruits of women's "ordination" are clear for all to see, yet they are ignored based on a conservative female here or there. As someone said last week, "WO will doom GAFCON". I believe that statement is still true and the elephant in the room that was ignored by GAFCON where WO is concerned is proof. Lord, have mercy. |
| GerryH | Posted: 2008/6/30 14:55 Updated: 2008/6/30 14:57 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/2/14 From: Posts: 7 |
>>>>>>
Seems you can have it one of two ways. 1. There is more to being an Anglican than the opinion of one man, The ABC, and all those folks are still Anglicans as they claim, or <<<<<<<< Is the totality of being Anglican, then, simply laying claim to the title? There seems to be a way that people with very differing beliefs can, apparently, both claim that title, and, also apparently, both have complete legitimacy in the use of the title. >>>>>> 2. 70% to 75% of the Anglican communion just walked out the door and the ABC failed the crown and the Church. <<<<<<< Why is this not schism, if that is what has happened? The curious thing about the dynamic is that it not the repudiation of an existing authority. Rather, it seems to be the establishment of an authority structure where none existed, and none was wanted. >>>>>>> Which one do you like more? <<<<<<< Neither seems either attractive when viewed from the inside, or consistent with the continued existence of a coherent denomination when viewed from the outside. |
| ctowles | Posted: 2008/6/30 15:24 Updated: 2008/6/30 15:24 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/12/4 From: Posts: 477 |
Well written statement in the structure of the Declaration of Independence beginning with grievances and listing remedies. I have a feeling Women's Ordination is infered to somehow or somewhere. It is tough to begin something new by first ruling out the most stable half of humanity. At this point it probably best to leave that as a squabble for another day. The thirty nine articles and the 1662 prayerbook are excellant starting points for theology. If someone can't join this group over a statement like WO so be it. What this form of the Anglican Communion has to watch out for is making stuff up as being "THE FAITH DELIVERED". WO objections are perilously close to being without biblical authority (only the writings of Paul which are not Gospels. We don't give Psalms or Leviticus the same gravity as Gospels nor should we give Epistles status as Gospels, therefore grist for an argument against WO.)
|
| sentinel | Posted: 2008/6/30 16:11 Updated: 2008/6/30 16:24 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/11 From: Posts: 261 |
ctowles,
First, I agree with you that returning to the 1662 BCP and the 39 Articles is a good place to start. But regarding your statement: Quote: WO objections are perilously close to being without biblical authority (only the writings of Paul which are not Gospels. We don't give Psalms or Leviticus the same gravity as Gospels nor should we give Epistles status as Gospels, therefore grist for an argument against WO.) respectfully, this is utter nonsense. Didn't Christ himself say that "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth..." (John 13:16 ESV)? Christ himself did not write the gospels with his own hand but they, like the Old Testament, were written by men of God who were moved by the the Holy Spirit (2 Pet 1:21). For this reason Paul was correct in writing that "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness" (2 Tim 3:16 ESV). Further, the OT books are equally as valuable since they not only document redemptive history but also serve the purpose of teaching us what sin is. So to say that the Biblical case against WO is close to being without Biblical authority makes little sense when taken to the light of Scripture. Further, this would also mean that the case against homosexuality is in an equally perilous position as well for the same reasons. |
| esniii | Posted: 2008/6/30 16:31 Updated: 2008/6/30 16:31 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/3/29 From: Posts: 385 |
GerryH -
You stated, "...this is contradictory, in the light of history, and makes no sense. This is schism in, apparently, all but name, given the history of the Communion...." I think it is an attempt to re-define what it means to be, "Anglican." This is desperately needed, e.g., Canon Gary L'Hommedieu's recent piece on the meaning of "Orthodox Anglicanism." Obviously, as you point out, it originally meant being either part of or being planted by the English church. But as the statement counters, this "Colonial" structure is quite antiquated, and short of actual commonwealths or pieces of land under English rule is as effectively meaningless as hailing Queen Elizabeth as the head of the American church (when we well know it is effectively queen schori). This statement seems to me to be an attempt to sieze upon the all-but-abandoned orthodoxy which was the root position of the historic Anglican church and to anchor the vast majority of Anglicans in the world today in those Biblically sound positions, as opposed to the widely-varying theoretical theologies which seem to be the normal basis for the typical TECUSA sunday sermon. Whether this will actually result in an increasing union with Anglicans desiring a real Biblical church in the increasingly apostate "1st World" Anglican churches, or whether it will simply mean schism as you suggest is left open, but the signers are simply putting their churches on a firm theological and doctrinal position, and leaving international church politics to the Lord, instead of to an all too obviously fallible +Canterbury. Historically, it may be a contradictory position to take, but it is far more coherent than the heretical theologi-babel that we are awash with from most bishops and primates of the dying anglican provinces in the US, Canada and the UK. God bless them (the GAFCON signers and attendees) in their position, and may He bring forth good fruit from it, as He wills. |
| esniii | Posted: 2008/6/30 16:35 Updated: 2008/6/30 16:35 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/3/29 From: Posts: 385 |
Quote:
ctowles: I have a feeling Women's Ordination is infered to somehow or somewhere. I would guess it is here: Quote: 7. We recognise that God has called and gifted bishops, priests and deacons in historic succession to equip all the people of God for their ministry in the world. We uphold the classic Anglican Ordinal as an authoritative standard of clerical orders. I do not know what, exactly constitutes 'the classic Anglican Ordinal,' but that seems to be where the defining lines for clergy are laid out. Could someone else expand on this, perhaps? |
| Sodslaw | Posted: 2008/6/30 16:41 Updated: 2008/6/30 16:42 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/8/3 From: Orthodox Bunker Posts: 330 |
Abp Mokiwa is new, but he gets an awful lot of "soft money" from TEC, and so I merely ask, who is he checking with really??
|
| ctowles | Posted: 2008/6/30 17:35 Updated: 2008/6/30 17:35 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/12/4 From: Posts: 477 |
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness" (2 Tim 3:16 ESV)."
No argument there just as I believe that some things the Bible says supercede some other things that the Bible says theologically. Christ even establishes a theological hierarchy when he says," The first of these great commandments is..." One can order the Ten Commandments as Dante ordered the Inferno. One can rank order the 613 Laws in Leviticus. Where is the biblical argument against Women's Ordination so that it may be theologically ranked except from Saint Paul, one who was not a disciple, who did not know Christ's will on a firsthand basis as the Disciples did, who did not directly speak to the matter as "Scripture is breathed out by God" but only infered frustration with women over certain matters. You can see what a thicket this is. Give me a quote so that I can see through the logical consequences of nothing being said about Women's Ordination in the Bible. Only inference is available which when seperated from cultural habits, (paternal society), is scant theological justification. "All Scripture is breathed out by God" is a literary metaphor and therefore cannot be construed as literal. God could have said "written" or "dictated" but he did not. God through 2 Tim 3:16 ESV chose a metaphor to communicate, and it must be read that way. Religion is mystery. |
| DomWalk | Posted: 2008/6/30 18:58 Updated: 2008/6/30 18:58 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/6/9 From: Left Coast, USA Posts: 619 |
Ding, dong, the witch is dead!
+ + + |
| FrSam+ | Posted: 2008/6/30 20:41 Updated: 2008/6/30 21:22 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/7/15 From: Posts: 555 |
"Give me a quote so that I can see through the logical consequences of nothing being said about WO in the Bible."
Huh? While the Bible is all that you say it is, it is not the only thing that orthodox Anglicans depend on to know the mind of Christ and the Church on this matter. Tradition, Reason, and the teachings of the church catholic have much to say. You ask for a quote. I would like one too. What about a quote where one of the Apostles says that WO is okay? Did they cast lots and pick a woman to succeed another Apostle? What about a quote from one of the early Church Fathers, East or West, that says that laying hands on a woman to "ordain" her is okay? Can you quote any of the Ecumenical Councils that decided that women were to be considered for the apostolic office of presbyter or bishop? Do you honestly think the Church was wrong on this issue for over 1900 years?? The Bible doesn't say anything about internet porn either, but I can gather from the total witness of Holy Scripture and the teachings of the Church that it is wrong. St. Paul may not have written a gospel as you say, but his writings are no less scripture than the Gospels. I don't think that ECUSA was right in the 1970's when it decided that all of the other sources of authority were wrong as well. You'll know them by their fruits, and the fruits of WO has been nothing but poison and division since it reared its ugly head. If I have to side with ECUSA or St. Paul on the matter I'm afraid I'll have to stick with St. Paul. The greater burden to justify revision and change the practice of the Church since Jesus' day is yours. Jesus violated several of the norms where women were concerned in His day. If Christ had wanted to pick a woman for one of the twelve I believe He would have done it. I don't believe that the burden of proof for admitting women to Holy Orders has been met by anyone. In fact, the Scriptures, no matter how much they may clash with our modern notions of "gender equality", fobid a woman to be preside in leadership of the Church. I think Christ and St. Paul knew exactly what they were doing. Sam + |
| polyphemos | Posted: 2008/6/30 21:33 Updated: 2008/6/30 21:35 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/6/29 From: Theos kai Mechane Posts: 627 |
.
You all know how much I love you. I would lick each one of your faces, given the opportunity. But this business of arguing over women in holy orders is like listening to Obama tell us he's got something new. Can we just give it a rest? The GAFCON statement is joyous and we should all look at it for what it is - New Wine from old grapes. Frankly, I can't wait to start worshiping at the nearest affiliated parish. Daisy the Wonderdog (pictured above) Face-licking prohibited in California, Chicago, and Manhattan and where prohibited by law. |
| FrSam+ | Posted: 2008/6/30 21:43 Updated: 2008/6/30 21:46 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/7/15 From: Posts: 555 |
Well Poly,
If the "nearest affiliated parish" has a woman presiding then I guess you can just lick away to your hearts content. I guess I'm just not able to ignore the one thing that will sink all of these "orthodox" efforts. It is like watching the Titanic set sail and not telling the Captain to look out for icebergs. If that is bad, then mea culpa. Pax, Sam + |
| polyphemos | Posted: 2008/6/30 21:47 Updated: 2008/6/30 21:47 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/6/29 From: Theos kai Mechane Posts: 627 |
Didn't say it was bad, Sam, it's just a non-starter.
You already know my feelings about Romish tradition and how I wish we had a truly Celtic 2nd C church, but that's not going to happen either. We all have to sacrifice something. I hope yours will not be terminal. You are too good a man to lose. DTWD, MA |
| FrSam+ | Posted: 2008/6/30 22:00 Updated: 2008/6/30 22:05 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/7/15 From: Posts: 555 |
Thanks Poly,
I value your voice too. Don't worry. I am in a solidly orthodox Anglican Church. I discuss these matters in an effort to help others, even if they don't like what I have to say. I guess sometimes the hard truth is a non-starter, no matter how much of a bummer it may be. Peace be with you, Sam + |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2008/6/30 23:11 Updated: 2008/7/1 4:52 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
FrSam, what GAFCON has done may not be perfect, and we may not all agree with what the Primates have done, but at least it's a MAJOR step in the right direction, and it HAS put the rest of the Anglican Communion on short notice that the innovations and heresies of the past forty some-odd years or more have gone on long enough.
The responses of Rowan Cantuar and Katharine Jefferts Schori are clearly indicative of the moral decay and apostasy infecting the present leadership, and this situation must and will be brought to an end! God is working His purpose out through His faithful servants the Primates of the GAFCON Council of Primates, the bishops and Primates of the Global South, the Southern Cone, Common Cause, and those who are on their way out of TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada and others....all of them....and we have to have faith that what we are doing is right. We can do no less. Pax! Cennydd |


















