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Exclusives : Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Posted by David Virtue on 2008/5/6 15:40:00 (4271 reads)

Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered

News Analysis

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
5/6/2008

The Most Rev. Gregory Venables, Archbishop of the Southern Cone, is, at this moment of ecclesiastical history, probably the most revered orthodox Archbishop in the Anglican Communion... and the most reviled.

No Anglican Archbishop in modern history has dived into the turbulent North American ecclesiastical waters of Anglicanism and managed to "offend" not one, but two heads of the most liberal provinces of the Anglican Communion with one single aim - to rescue whole dioceses from the clutches of a decaying, poisonous and self-destructive liberalism.

When he appeared on Canadian soil recently to inaugurate what might, in time, become a rival Anglican Communion, he was greeted with derision and scorn by the ultra-liberal leader of the Anglican Church of Canada, Fred Hiltz who told him in no uncertain terms that he was not welcome in his country and to get lost.

"Stop interfering in the life of this province," Hiltz roared at Venables. Undeterred, Venables noted, in his address to some 400 members of the Anglican Network in Canada, that the Anglican Communion now has two gospels, and that Hiltz has hold of the wrong one.

Venables continued, "It is important that I come because the integrity of the gospel is at stake, and these particular Anglicans are no longer under your authority. This occasion here in Vancouver is momentous. I see a glorious future for Anglicanism in these wonderful men and women."

Whatever "bonds of affection" might have existed between the two men evaporated faster than a used Canadian tea bag. Catholic collegiality and provincial autonomy disappeared into Vancouver's fabled English Bay even while the "faith once for all delivered to the saints" was being upheld in a Baptist Church. Simultaneously, it was being deep-sixed by the poisonous liberal Anglican Bishop of the Diocese of New Westminster, one Michael Ingham.

Venables seized the moment and was not about to let it go for a mess of heretical ecclesiastical pottage which has only served to benefit liberal and revisionist bishops bent on destroying the last vestiges of orthodoxy in their dioceses.

All the nice talk about alternative ecclesiastical oversight, only partially hid a gloved tyrannical fist. The Anglican Church of Canada has become, in the words of the famous Eagles hit, "Hotel California", a place where "You can check out any time, but you can never leave."

From Vancouver, Venables flew to the Diocese of San Joaquin where he was joyfully received with open arms by the bishop of that diocese, John-David Schofield, but not before the interloper bishop Jerry Lamb, who has been force fed to the diocese by Mrs. Katharine Jefferts Schori, told Venables to stay out of the diocese. "I strongly protest your visit to this diocese without my invitation or permission," he wrote to Venables. "Your visit would violate the traditions of the ancient church as understood in the communion." Never mind that the "ancient church" would have severely protested the theology of Bishop Lamb and Mrs. Jefferts Schori. It would have held heresy trials to rid the church of their likes.

In blunt language, Episcopal interloper Lamb told the Argentine Archbishop to stay out the diocese and refrain from preaching and celebrating the Eucharist in St. James Cathedral. "I strongly urge that you cancel your meeting in the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin... I also strongly urge you to refrain from interjecting yourself into the internal affairs of the Episcopal Church, the only Anglican Church in the United States."

Venables told VirtueOnline that he had no intention of canceling his trip and would "preach and celebrate the Eucharist" in what is now a diocese under his ecclesiastical authority. Again, the issue of cross-provincial actions was raised and ignored. From Venables' point of view, a defense of the faith is far more important than geographic boundaries. He no doubt sees it as a sort of reverse understanding of the parable of the lost sheep. The evangelical archbishop sallies forth to rescue saved sheep in order to protect them from false shepherds.

From San Joaquin, Venables flew to the Diocese of Ft. Worth, where he was met with open arms by Bishop Jack Leo Iker, but not before Mrs. Jefferts Schori chimed in calling Venables' visit an "invasion". She wrote to Venables saying that his visit to a special convocation of the diocese was "with the expressed purpose of describing removal to the Province of the Southern Cone is an unwarranted invasion of, and meddling in, the internal affairs of this Province."

Venables' message to the diocese was the same message he preached in Vancouver and San Joaquin, "doctrinal impurity leads to moral impurity," hence Bishop Gene Robinson. "But, I want you to know that the vast majority - 95% - of the people in the Anglican Communion believe that this book (holding up his Bible) is the word of God. If you choose to stand on this, you will be standing with the overwhelming majority. That doesn't make it all easy, but it will offer some comfort," he said to roaring approval by the overwhelmingly, predominantly Anglo-Catholic diocese.They couldn't have been happier.

Then Venables took off the gloves off and lit into The Episcopal Church. "In the Communion, 90% of the bishops gathered 10 years ago at Lambeth said what I just said. (Resolution I.10, where the vote was 527 for; 69 against.) The 10% who did not agree said, 'I don't agree with you and I don't care what you say.' The 10% cannot explain why they believe as they do. They will not or cannot tell us why they believe as they do. Believe me, I have asked. Many times.

"At every Primate's meeting, we produced a letter. Starting in Brazil, in the spring of 2003, when Gene Robinson was nominated in New Hampshire, we said, 'Don't do it.' In London after his election, we said, 'Don't do it.' In Dromantine in February of 2004, we said, 'Don't do it."'

"Your presiding bishop walked away from the meeting without telling us he did not agree and did it anyway. We said, 'Why didn't you talk to us about it Did you understand what we were saying to you'?

He responded, 'Yes, I did.'

We asked, 'Did you tell the people in the US what we said'

"He responded, 'No.'

"In Nottingham in 2006, we told your entire delegation that what they were doing was not right, especially with regard to gay marriage. It still continued. They have said that they don't care what we think and will do whatever they want anyway.

"Listening means talking to each other, not sending a small group out to lecture, like the Listening Process. Talking together and listening to each other. Jesus talked with his disciples and the tax collectors. He did this over food, just as we will talk over lunch in a few minutes. You can't listen to people who will not talk and cannot explain why they have adopted the path that they have. We must keep talking to each other today and speak with love and gentleness. Not all of us are in the same place on these issues and the challenge is to leave as friends, not enemies.

"In Tanzania one year ago, we requested alternative covering for the orthodox in the US and Canada. They said no. That's why we are where we are. The Orthodox tried to open the dialogue and they continually stonewalled us.

"In the Anglican Communion, we have no authority over us to resolve these issues. The Primates tried and were told they did not have the authority. The Archbishop of Canterbury has said that he is not a referee. In 1998, The Lambeth Conference spoke and we were ignored because the Communion system is run from the ideal of democratic inclusiveness. All ideas are equal and valid. This ideal is good for some things, but not in determining the Word of God."

When Venables finished, the diocese stood as one and applauded long and hard. There can be little doubt that The Episcopal Church contains and preaches two very different understandings of the Christian Faith, some might say two very different religions are at work; one orthodox, the other heterodox; one Trinitarian, the other fast approaching Unitarianism.

It is an intolerable situation, one that has seen one diocese leave TEC and has three more (Ft. Worth, Quincy and Pittsburgh) ready to leave after the Lambeth Conference in August. Any way the Episcopal Church continues to cut and spin its lies, using the 1% argument of Mrs. Jefferts Schori, the loss of four dioceses representing tens of thousands of dues paying Episcopalians is a loss from which the Episcopal Church will never, ever recover even if it wins all the property disputes. It will have to spends millions in legal fees to accomplish this.

The Episcopal Church has no compelling gospel and no message of saving faith. Rehashing secular UN Millennium Development Goals does not make parishes or dioceses grow. People want to hear more than the Metro section of the Sunday Times or the whine of pansexual behavior in church on a Sunday morning. They come to church to receive spiritual bread. Regrettably and sadly, all they get are stones.

END

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Poster Thread
Smoke
Posted: 2008/5/6 19:14  Updated: 2008/5/6 19:14
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/2/27
From: Diocese of Dallas
Posts: 94
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
I attended the Saturday gathering in Fort Worth and was inspired as my Sr. Warden who came away saying, why can't all leaders of the Church be as clear as he was today. It was more than refreshing. A wonderful and holy man of the living God.
db4him
Posted: 2008/5/6 19:51  Updated: 2008/5/6 19:51
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/19
From:
Posts: 425
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
"In 1998, The Lambeth Conference spoke and we were ignored because the Communion system is run from the ideal of democratic inclusiveness. All ideas are equal and valid. This ideal is good for some things, but not in determining the Word of God."

This sums it all up in a nutshell... when any denomination makes the Word of God relative, they have sealed their ultimate doom. Without men like Most Rev. Venables making these declarations, Anglicanism doesn't stand a chance. If TEc's heresy is allowed to spread, it will bring down the whole of Anglicanism.
Cennydd
Posted: 2008/5/6 20:34  Updated: 2008/5/6 20:34
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6862
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Regardless of what Archbishop Venables....or every other orthodox primate....says to Katie and Freddie....they will refuse to listen.

But they sure expext US to listen, don't they?

Fat chance!

Cennydd
Fisherman
Posted: 2008/5/6 22:52  Updated: 2008/5/6 22:52
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/8/25
From: Dallas - Province of the Southern Cone, DoFW
Posts: 675
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
I am proud of and prayerful for my bishop. Yes he's going to Lambeth. And it's not to participate in a revisionist social tea party....
dannyiseli
Posted: 2008/5/6 23:09  Updated: 2008/5/6 23:09
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: new jersey
Posts: 38
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
It's all about the biblical Gospel and unswervingly standing for it. I've said this to one Elizabeth Geitz in my diocese of NJ, who in her FIRESEED EVANGELISM, cannot confess that Jesus Christ is the sole way to God... I asked her at an evangelism workshop how on earth does she expect the sheep of TEC to reproduce when all the clergy feeds them for the most part is not the grass of the Word but the junkfood of liberal astrofurf!!! She merely liked the idea and said she must use it in her next book As my grandmother used to say NOBODY HOME!!

We need fearless shepherds like Duncan, Iker, Scholfield to stand up and say that their sheepfolds will no longer be held hostage to a heretical quasi-ecclesiastical corporation. We need outside shepherds like Akinola, Jensen, Ali Nazir, and Venables to articulate and implement a Reformation stand to Lambeth and say enough is enough with the gangrenous and necrotic parts of the body. Amputation is the only course. I contributed to send a bishop to Gafcon and I feel I'm part of this new Anglican Reformation.

May we keep submissive to the Lord of our church in the power of His Spirit according to his changeless Word, living out the truth in love.
C_Caldwell
Posted: 2008/5/7 0:29  Updated: 2008/5/7 0:31
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2005/1/23
From: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 30
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Canon 119 states that a bishop which has snatched a diocese from heresy for three years may keep that diocese.

Henry R. Percival, Canon 119 of "The Code of the Canons of the African Church A.D. 419", from "The Canons of the 217 Blessed Fathers Who Assembled at Carthage", in The Seven Ecumenical Councils of the Undivided Church: Their Canons and Dogmatic Decrees (page 956). The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series, Volume 14, edited by Philip Schaff. The Master Christian Library, Version 5, AGES Software (1997)
john4woman
Posted: 2008/5/7 1:39  Updated: 2008/5/7 1:39
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/5/28
From: california
Posts: 104
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
His grace came to St. Anne's, Oceanside, in San Diego County and delivered a powerful message, focusing on Jesus Christ as the resurrected Son of God and the ONLY WAY. He is my bishop and a strong and Godly leader!

http://sandiegoanglicans.com/cms/node/416#comments
George186
Posted: 2008/5/7 2:00  Updated: 2008/5/7 2:02
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2008/3/24
From: West Hartford, Connecticut
Posts: 34
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
I wish I could have seen and heard Archbishop Venables and listened to the quiet yet powerful words he spoke - the words of God and our Lord and our Saviour Jesus Christ and not the words of debauched men which TEC now worships.
Leadership has been sorely lacking, in my not so humble opinion, along with the "fire in the belly" among the seat warmers that will breed an eventual full return to the beliefs we all once knew and hold dear.
May God watch over this great and good man.
Ikerliker
Posted: 2008/5/7 2:27  Updated: 2008/5/7 2:27
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/16
From: PA
Posts: 2051
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
God has raised up a powerful defender of the faith in ++Venables. There comes a time when enough is enough. So many have had "enough" of this heresy and yearn for a church where the "faith once delivered" is practiced and the undiluted Word of God is preached.

Praying for Global South and the orthodox bishops, clergy and people in North America who are waiting for deliverance. The time seems to be at hand.
Cennydd
Posted: 2008/5/7 4:11  Updated: 2008/5/7 4:11
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6862
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
The time is VERY MUCH at hand, in my opinion, and I believe we are going to see evidence of that at the GAFCON gathering.

Schori and Company are very nervous and apprehensive about what the ramifications of this gathering of primates and others might be, and they should be!

The outcome of this conference and the decisions to come from it could be very critical for the Anglican Communion, and could very well affect its survival as we know it.

While I don't forsee an end to the Communion, it most certainly will be quite different from the one we all know. What might TEC's role in the Communion be, following Lambeth?

If things don't change significantly, their role probably won't change, but if things don't go their way, or if their role is diminished, they will probably pull out; they're certainly in a position now to do just that, as has been hinted at several times.

They are now an international denomination, with 16 extraterritorial provinces and dioceses, so it's quite possible that that's the path that they will take.

Cennydd
Bob52
Posted: 2008/5/7 5:49  Updated: 2008/5/7 5:49
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2007/11/3
From:
Posts: 28
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?" declares the LORD. "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?" (Jer. 23:28-29).
It seems pretty clear who the dreamers are["dreamers who defile the flesh" Jude 8], and who has the Word of God and speaks it faithfully.
What a difference-straw and grain indeed!
patulous
Posted: 2008/5/7 12:48  Updated: 2008/5/7 12:48
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/5/18
From:
Posts: 1778
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Quote: "Then Venables took the gloves off and lit into The Episcopal Church."

One trouble with the world is that so many people who stand up vigorously for their rights fall down miserably on their duties....and the fearful Presiding Bishop of TEC told God's servant to stay away.
Cennydd
Posted: 2008/5/7 13:32  Updated: 2008/5/7 14:11
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6862
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
The single most important thing to remember about TEC....aside from their so-called "inclusion" of everyone along with their decidedly unhealthful sexual proclivities....is the fact that they hold their precious "polity" to be inviolable: "How dare you come onto our turf....even if you are doing Christ's work!"

Somehow I think that this isn't what Christ had in mind when He gave His disciples their marching orders.

Yes, our archbishop did take the gloves off and light into TEC! They deserved it, and the boxing of their ears isn't over by a LONG shot!

Cennydd
DJ1943
Posted: 2008/5/7 20:13  Updated: 2008/5/7 20:41
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/11/30
From: Ohio
Posts: 240
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
History is in the making. The liberals have taken the hilltop and dug in. During their slash and burn campaign to the hill, they stole properties, changed the rules of engagement, deposed a lot of innocent people and hurt a lot people along the way. Now they're there and they've dug in and said, "what are you going to do about it?"

Meanwhile, the conservative army generals are going to GAFCON where they'll plan their strategy and develop their battle plan. In August they'll go north to Lambeth where they'll tell the fence sitters that the march is on to retake the hilltop, and they can either help lead, follow or get out of the way.

They will also be reminded that once the battle is over, there will be no place in the conservative kindom for bishops who choose to remain pawns.

The time for religious talk, saber rattling and rhetoric is over. The troops are restless and they're hungry for a victory. Now on to the hilltop, the crusade is underway.
Cennydd
Posted: 2008/5/7 20:51  Updated: 2008/5/7 20:58
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6862
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Yes, they "took the hilltop," but they're trapped there! They can't survive for long if their supplies are cut off by interdiction at the source. Their "supplies" are MONEY.

Cut that off by hitting them where it hurts....the pocketbook....and they'll have to draw down their reserves, and even that can't last forever! Companies without stable financial resources soon go bankrupt, and that's where the heretics in the Communion are headed.

Many are already there....morally and spiritually.

Cennydd
DJ1943
Posted: 2008/5/7 21:02  Updated: 2008/5/7 21:09
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/11/30
From: Ohio
Posts: 240
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
According to my calculations the odds are 38.5 to 1 (2MM liberal and 75MM conservative). I still haven't figured out why such a piddly little outfit is even considered a serious threat.
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2008/5/7 23:56  Updated: 2008/5/7 23:56
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Clarity exists only along side understanding. Ergo, there can be no clarity from J'ECUSA!.
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2008/5/8 0:00  Updated: 2008/5/8 0:00
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Hooah.
islandbear
Posted: 2008/5/8 0:00  Updated: 2008/5/8 0:00
Quite a regular
Joined: 2005/4/23
From: Rochester, NY
Posts: 68
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Perhaps Archbishop Venables could offer to give Rowan cantaur a few leadership lessons. There we no protestations that he didn't have the authority, no worrying about what other members of the Primate's club might think, no dithering -- just leadership based in his faith. How refreshing!

Islandbear+
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2008/5/8 0:01  Updated: 2008/5/8 0:01
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
Don't forget the force multiplier that is the Gospel!
Showmeguy
Posted: 2008/5/8 0:29  Updated: 2008/5/8 0:29
Quite a regular
Joined: 2007/3/29
From: Oklahoma
Posts: 58
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
I was in attendance in Ft. Worth this last Sunday evening, and just have to add my agreement to most of the comments here. The thing that stands out to me about Archbishop Venables, who by the way, is my Primate, is his humility. There is not an ounce of arrogance or pretentiousness in the man, and he is quick to point out that the Holy Bible and Jesus Christ are what the whole thing is about. All of the fine parishoners of my parish and diocese will continue to pray for those who are thinking about departing TEc, and urge them to not tarry too long.
John1
Posted: 2008/5/15 15:24  Updated: 2008/5/15 15:24
Just popping in
Joined: 2004/7/22
From: Jackson, TN
Posts: 1
 Re: Archbishop Venables: He came, He saw, He conquered
A Bishop For All Seasons.
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