LOS ANGELES: Service celebrates 2 beliefs
Episcopalians hold an Indian Rite Mass with Hindus and apologize for past religious discrimination.
By K. Connie Kang
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
The Los Angeles Times
January 20, 2008
Hindu nun Pravrajika Saradeshaprana, dressed in a saffron robe, blew into a conch shell three times, calling to worship Hindu and Episcopal religious leaders who joined Saturday to celebrate an Indian Rite Mass at St. John's Cathedral near downtown.
The rare joint service included chants from the Temple Bhajan Band of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness and a moving rendition of "Bless the Lord, O My Soul" sung by the St. John's choir.
"This was a once-in-a-lifetime experience in worship service," said Bob Bland, a member of St. Patrick's Episcopal Church of Thousand Oaks, who was among the 260 attendees. "There was something so holy -- so much symbolism and so many opportunities for meditation."
During the service, the Rt. Rev. J. Jon Bruno, bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles, issued a statement of apology to the Hindu religious community for centuries-old acts of religious discrimination by Christians, including attempts to convert them.
"I believe that the world cannot afford for us to repeat the errors of our past, in which we sought to dominate rather than to serve," Bruno said in a statement read by the Rt. Rev. Chester Talton. "In this spirit, and in order to take another step in building trust between our two great religious traditions, I offer a sincere apology to the Hindu religious community."
The bishop also said he was committed to renouncing "proselytizing" of Hindus. Bruno had been scheduled to read the statement himself, but a death of a close family friend prevented him from attending the service.
Swami Sarvadevananda, of Vedanta Society of Southern California, was among about a dozen Hindu leaders honored during the service. He called Bruno's stance "a great and courageous step" that binds the two communities.
"By declaring that there will be no more proselytizing, the bishop has opened a new door of understanding," Sarvadevananda said. "The modern religious man must expand his understanding and love of religions and their practices."
All were invited to Holy Communion, after the Episcopal celebrant elevated a tray of consecrated Indian bread, and deacons raised wine-filled chalices.
In respect to Hindu tradition, a tray of flowers was also presented. Christians and Hindus lined up for communion, but since Orthodox Hindus shun alcohol, they consumed only the bread.
During the service, the two faiths also blended practices during the handling of an icon of Jesus.
The Rev. Karen MacQueen, an associate priest at St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Pomona, who was the celebrant, carried the icon, a large painted image, during the procession. She placed it before the altar.
Then, as she and the others knelt before the icon, a second Hindu band, Adoration Chant Band, sang a hymn while the icon was anointed with sandalwood paste by the Episcopal celebrant. A flowered garland was placed on it and a lamp was lighted, a sign of Christ, the light in the darkness
Both Hindu and Christian texts were read.
In her homily, "A Vision for Inter-Religious Dialogue," MacQueen said in both Hinduism and Christianity devotees believe that "the Divine Presence" illuminates the whole world.
MacQueen, who spent two years studying Hinduism in India, said both faiths revere "great figures who embody the divine light, who teach the divine truth."
For Christians, Jesus preeminently embodies the divine light, she said. For Hindus, she said a number of figures embody the divine light and teach the divine truth.
"To my knowledge this is an unprecedented event in L.A., California and the U.S.," said the Rev. Gwynne Guibord, head of the ecumenical and inter-religious affairs for the diocese, which initiated Saturday's project.
"My personal, prayerful hope is that it will serve as a 'model' of good will toward building up of a 'beloved community,' " she said.
END
| Poster | Thread |
|---|---|
| Ikerliker | Posted: 2008/1/21 2:40 Updated: 2008/1/21 2:40 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/16 From: PA Posts: 2051 |
Lord have mercy!
What kind of goobledegook is this??? Talk about heretical behavior on both ends. Hindu's taking communion???? What the heck is that all about. Let's just make a mockery of the mass and the sacraments, shall we? Oh wait, they just DID!!!!! Jon Bruno should be inhibited, deposed and excommunicated for this nonsense. But no, we would rather pick on the Anglo-Catholics and Evangelicals who uphold the faith once delivered! I might have to bang my head on the computer desk till I knock myself out over this one. Blasphemy, pure and simple and all in the name of inclusivity. Ba humbug to TEc. |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2008/1/21 2:51 Updated: 2008/1/21 2:55 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6863 |
What in blue blazes is going on in the Diocese of Los Angeles? Has Bishop Bruno taken leave of his senses? Ooops....don't answer that! The answer to that question came years ago!
Whatever happened to the canon requiring one to be a baptized Christian in order to receive the Holy Eucharist? Oh....I know: It got tossed down the toilet by the heretics at 815 2nd Avenue! You know....the Loony Bin? The one with the heathens running the joint? Cennydd |
| BibleThump | Posted: 2008/1/21 3:21 Updated: 2008/1/21 3:21 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/9/29 From: Ft. Worth Posts: 24 |
This isn't an example of abandonment of Communion?
Someone get me a Beer, Schoring up the Diocese of Los Angeles will be thirsty work. ![]() |
| Causidicus | Posted: 2008/1/21 3:42 Updated: 2008/1/21 3:42 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/7/3 From: Posts: 1095 |
Just when you think they've gone as far as possible, they go a little further.
I thought I had seen everything when the PB declared that Jesus was not the way but only one of many ways, but now, to top that we have a Bishop (!) who abandons the great commission. What's next? What's left? Lord, have mercy. |
| DavidJacks | Posted: 2008/1/21 3:55 Updated: 2008/1/21 3:55 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/4/23 From: Upper Toadtown, California Posts: 101 |
Who can take these people (TEC) seriously?
Regards; DJ |
| yendor | Posted: 2008/1/21 4:20 Updated: 2008/1/21 4:21 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/11/3 From: Posts: 87 |
Senior members of TEC never cease to amaze me. Did Bruno never get taught the Great Commission: 'go out to all nations, baptise and teach'? How can this command, from Jesus no less, be obeyed without being accused of the modern day sin of proselytizing?
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| Cradle | Posted: 2008/1/21 9:51 Updated: 2008/1/21 9:51 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/9/10 From: Tx Posts: 69 |
What is next? What abomination will they think
up next? Everyone is starting to make fun of us. It is time for the "fence sitting" Bishops to take a stand or do they really like "services" like this? Help. Someone help! |
| cuervoria | Posted: 2008/1/21 9:59 Updated: 2008/1/21 9:59 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/15 From: College Station, Texas Posts: 541 |
We are sooo sorry for bringing the Gospel to bear against the evils of the Caste System.
But remember Graham Staines and his sons: http://www.ibsresources.org/articles/staines.shtml de la Cuervoria |
| railbirdbc | Posted: 2008/1/21 11:08 Updated: 2008/1/21 11:08 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/6/6 From: Posts: 767 |
Oh, I'm so glad someone has finally done this, for it is the culmination of a dream initiated way back in the early 20th century, when a little known group called the Liberal Catholic Church, inspired by Indian religion, got underway with the idea of infecting orthodox Christianity with Eastern religious ideas. Mind you, in those dark days the Liberal Catholic Church and its advocates were mere off-the-wall wing-nuts. But as we now observe, the inmates are running the asylum, and even the institution's keepers have caught the infection. When I first met people this way inclined in the 1970s, I never would have believed in my wildest dreams that they would one day take full control of the Church, her people, her clergy, and her doctrine and corrupt it to this degree. Just goes to show, he who snoozes, loses.
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| esniii | Posted: 2008/1/21 11:11 Updated: 2008/1/21 11:11 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/3/29 From: Posts: 390 |
Quote:
What's next? What's left? I am just waiting for the ads for the joint service with Satanists out in L.A. - 'a black and white service;' waiting with fear and trembling, and with prayers for our salvation from idiots and heretics and sinners who won't listen to God... |
| Drummie | Posted: 2008/1/21 11:49 Updated: 2008/1/21 11:49 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/9/27 From: Posts: 512 |
This just proves once again the heresy of TEc. This bishop should be deposed, as he certainly has violated scripture, something much more important than communion with TEc. When Christ commissioned the apostles he told them that he would be with them everywhere and for all time. This bishop had denied Christ by not going out to make desciples in all lands. NEVER apologize for spreading the Gospel of our Lord. It is a noble and honorable undertaking, but I think TEc has no honor.
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| squidward | Posted: 2008/1/21 11:54 Updated: 2008/1/21 11:54 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/4/24 From: Posts: 9 |
OK, let’s get this straight. Hindus reject belief in an afterlife (other than reincarnation) and maintain a person is born to a social class (or 'caste’) based on the deeds (or ‘karma’) of their previous lives. Being born poor is not only the just result of a past life poorly lived, but aspiring to move out of one’s caste is forbidden and can result in an even worse state in the next life. And oh, by the way, women are regarded in Hinduism as always ranking lower than men. The best a woman can hope for is to live a particularly good life so that she can be come back in the next to reach enlightenment as a man. (Of course, we would not want to mention the few Hindu sects in India that encourage widows to cast themselves on their husband’s funeral pyres or practice the ritual raping of women.)
It is difficult to think of a religion that is not only more antithetical to Christianity but even contrary to Western liberal secularism. Perhaps, in the name of inclusiveness, Bishop Bruno will next consider inviting Fundamentalist Evangelicals to a special cathedral service. But, oh, I forgot the good bishop has more in common with Hindus than Christian fundamentalists. |
| daveball | Posted: 2008/1/21 12:49 Updated: 2008/1/21 12:49 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/12/18 From: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2377 |
I guess it's hard not to be wacked out in LA - just breathing the air will do that.
It is tough to beat the clown mass but this does it. The bar has been lowered. What next? If this little exercise isn't grounds for inhibition, I don't know what is - oops, silly me. Defending the Biblical faith is reason for inhibition. Hindu mass is "inclusive". As I recall Frank Tracy Griswold was a fan of Suffi - that's being "inclusive". Katie worships herself - that's being a lunatic which is inclusive if you're a loony. So there you have it. |
| railbirdbc | Posted: 2008/1/21 13:11 Updated: 2008/1/21 13:11 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/6/6 From: Posts: 767 |
Dear Squidward:
No self-respecting Fundamentalist Evangelicals (as you call them) would go within ten miles of such a bishop and such a service. Even raving Fundies have their pride of place. |
| boggy | Posted: 2008/1/21 13:12 Updated: 2008/1/21 13:12 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/8/29 From: Posts: 167 |
Atlas should shrug, and soon. What tripe!!!
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| servant | Posted: 2008/1/21 13:27 Updated: 2008/1/21 13:27 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/10/3 From: Dallas, Texas Posts: 191 |
Quote:
During the service, the Rt. Rev. J. Jon Bruno, bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles, issued a statement of apology to the Hindu religious community for centuries-old acts of religious discrimination by Christians, including attempts to convert them. First point: Bruno can't apologize for acts that he didn't commit. I doubt Bruno will ever need to apologize for bringing people to Christ. Second point: We're supposed to convert Hindus. By participating in this, Bruno and his ilk denied Christ. |
| Climacus | Posted: 2008/1/21 13:37 Updated: 2008/1/21 13:37 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/2/19 From: Boston Posts: 86 |
Par for the course. This is surely the Anglican norm now, right?
Listen, folks. You might belong to a faithful individual Anglican church, but the denomination itself is as theologically and ethically unstable and questionable as when it was first founded. Seriously, you should consider converting to the bedrock truth of Orthodoxy, rather than belong to a little skiff tossed about by the waves. |
| patience | Posted: 2008/1/21 13:50 Updated: 2008/1/21 13:50 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/5/3 From: Posts: 313 |
"The bishop also said he was committed to renouncing "proselytizing" of Hindus."
WOW; We now need to ask what line of business the Bishop considers himself to be a part of. Regarding the joint 'ceremony', I have seen it before, with Islamic and Jewish twists, in New York City at a large midtown church. What the (liberal) Episcopalians are blind to is ultimately this blended stuff is insulting to both Christian belief and the belief of the other group involved. In no way does it build long term neighborly relations.... |
| Fisherman | Posted: 2008/1/21 13:51 Updated: 2008/1/21 13:51 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/8/25 From: Dallas - Province of the Southern Cone, DoFW Posts: 675 |
Yo, Jon! "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Exodus 20:3
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| ctowles | Posted: 2008/1/21 14:42 Updated: 2008/1/21 14:42 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/12/4 From: Posts: 498 |
Two Bishops, two percieved heresies. One (Schofield) unifies with a member of the same Anglican Communion which confuses the charge he has against him which is "Abandonment of Communion". The other (Bruno) consecrates a
"once-in-a-lifetime experience in worship" with Hindus, apologizing for all Christians for "dominating" Hindus and promising for all Christians not to proselytize to them is seen as a Saint. People wonder why we may be at the end of organized religion. |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2008/1/21 19:33 Updated: 2008/1/21 19:33 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6863 |
Those same people who call +John-David Schofield a heretic would be tarred and feathered, and run out of this diocese on a rail.
Cennydd |
| Ikerliker | Posted: 2008/1/21 22:15 Updated: 2008/1/21 22:15 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/16 From: PA Posts: 2051 |
I can't believe the rapid descent of TEc. I am 50 years old. When I was little, the Episcopal Church was something to be proud of. Now it's a nonChristian sect that is laughable at best. In the grand scheme of things, that's not a long time for a religious body to implode. Very, very sad state of affairs. Like my buddy daveball said, the bar has been lowered. This beats the Clown Mass. That really says something and it ain't good.
Lord deliver us from those who mock your Holy Word and Sacraments. |
| GardenSt | Posted: 2008/1/22 0:54 Updated: 2008/1/22 0:54 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/7/26 From: Posts: 158 |
The header on this post is wrong! There were not "two" beliefs celebrated at this gathering. Only one Hinduism.
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| Cennydd | Posted: 2008/1/22 1:20 Updated: 2008/1/22 1:20 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6863 |
From all such heresies and assaults of the Devil,
Good Lord deliver us! Cennydd |
| patience | Posted: 2008/1/22 17:56 Updated: 2008/1/22 17:56 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/5/3 From: Posts: 313 |
"The bishop also said he was committed to renouncing "proselytizing" of Hindus"...
If the Bishop is not interested in the mission of the church, he could point out the escalating violence Hindu groups are displaying towards Christians in various regions of India. Surely Hindu's of goodwill would stand against this stain on their country, if leaders had the spine to point it out. Somehow I doubt we'll ever here this truth spoken of much in places like LA. |
| AndrewA | Posted: 2008/1/22 19:53 Updated: 2008/1/22 19:53 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/11/13 From: Posts: 66 |
I wonder what the [Anglican] Church of India thinks about all this.
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| TheStudent | Posted: 2008/1/26 0:02 Updated: 2008/1/26 0:02 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/2 From: Posts: 13 |
THIS is another reason why I am no longer with the Anglican Church. Lord, please come soon!
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| jsaviola | Posted: 2008/1/27 14:41 Updated: 2008/1/27 14:41 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/5/15 From: Buffalo, NY Posts: 8 |
Will someone please explain why this does not constitute "abandonment of the communion"?
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