VIRGINIA: Former Episcopal leaders reminded of vows
by Julia Duin
The Washington Times
http://tinyurl.com/25tb73
November 15, 2007
Conservative church leaders who left the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia after the consecration of a homosexual bishop took the stand yesterday to assert their claim on valuable properties that they say belongs to local congregations - not the national church or the diocese - during court proceedings in the largest property battle in Episcopal Church history.
Lawyers for the Episcopal Church and the Diocese of Virginia questioned several leaders of 11 breakaway churches in trying to establish that Bishop Martyn Minns and Falls Church rector the Rev. John Yates, among others, violated priestly vows to be loyal to the Episcopal Church. Those vows were violated, the lawyers said, when the group led several thousand people out of the Virginia Diocese last December in protest over the 2003 consecration of Bishop V. Gene Robinson in New Hampshire.
As a result of the Robinson consecration, conservative parishioners and clergy alike begin to flee the church, Mr. Yates said.
"Some rectors were talking about the possibility of leaving the Episcopal Church," he said, "while around the country, other groups of churches had already taken steps to leave."
The lawsuit, being heard in Fairfax Circuit Court, involves millions of dollars in property still occupied by the 11 churches. The diocese and the national church are demanding they vacate their real estate, which includes some of Northern Virginia"s most historic properties.
The disaffected churches say an 1867 Virginia "division statute" gives them the legal standing to keep the property. The case, which will continue for another week, hinges on whether a "division" has occurred in the diocese.
Bishop Minns, the former rector of the historic Truro Church in Fairfax City until he became the founding bishop of the Convocation of Anglicans in North America, was reminded by a diocesan attorney of the vows that he made when he began his three-decade career as an Episcopal priest.
"Didn"t you promise to 'conform to the doctrine, worship and discipline of the Episcopal Church"?" asked lawyer Brad Davenport of the Richmond firm Troutman Sanders.
Bishop Minns said yes but that he had ceased being an Episcopal priest when he was consecrated a bishop Aug. 20, 2006, by the Anglican Church of Nigeria.
Attorneys for the church leaders in Northern Virginia portrayed them as loyal Episcopalians who tried for years to work out their theological differences with the more liberal Episcopal Church and the diocese before giving up in the fall of 2006.
Over objections from attorneys for the diocese, the court allowed a Sept. 28, 2006, document drawn up by a six-person committee comprising three conservatives, including Mr. Yates, and three liberals appointed by the bishop.
The diocese said the document, a letter to Virginia Bishop Peter J. Lee, was "replete with religious doctrine and theology that shouldn"t be admitted in a property dispute." The letter told how the committee had worked out a protocol for "departing members including concomitant issues concerning real and personal property."
Mr. Yates said the committee met with Bishop Lee that same day in Fredericksburg and presented him the letter.
"He received the report with resignation," recalled Mr. Yates. "He said, 'This is a way forward, and I'll present this to the diocese." "
But Mr. Yates said negotiations between the diocese and the churches eventually broke down.
"This was a total departure from our meetings of the past year," he said. "It was totally unexpected."
END
| Poster | Thread |
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| dturk | Posted: 2007/11/15 12:58 Updated: 2007/11/15 12:58 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Posts: 416 |
"Lawyers for the Episcopal Church and the Diocese of Virginia questioned several leaders of 11 breakaway churches in trying to establish that Bishop Martyn Minns and Falls Church rector the Rev. John Yates, among others, violated priestly vows to be loyal to the Episcopal Church. Those vows were violated, the lawyers said, when the group led several thousand people out of the Virginia Diocese last December in protest over the 2003 consecration of Bishop V. Gene Robinson in New Hampshire."
What about these vows: I solemnly declare that I do believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the Word of God, and to contain all things necessary to salvation; Will you be loyal to the doctrine, discipline, and worship of Christ as this Church has received them? Will you do you best to pattern your life [and that of your family, or household, or community] in accordance with the teachings of Christ... What about the fact that nearly every liberal priest and bishop has flagrantly ignored these vows? |
| railbirdbc | Posted: 2007/11/15 13:30 Updated: 2007/11/15 13:30 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/6/6 From: Posts: 767 |
What about the vows they made at their baptism to shun all evil and sin? What about their vows at their ordination to faithfully uphold and preach the whole gospel of Jesus Christ? Do vows to a bishop or to a diocese or denomination out-trump these vows?
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| Fisherman | Posted: 2007/11/15 13:42 Updated: 2007/11/15 13:42 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/8/25 From: Dallas - Province of the Southern Cone, DoFW Posts: 675 |
Mr. Davenport asked Bishop Minns "Didn't you promise to 'conform to the doctrine, worship and discipline of the Episcopal Church?'"
Mr. Davenport did not ask Bishop Minns if in response to the ordination examination question "Will you do your best to pattern your life [and that of your family, or household, or community] in accordance with the teachings of Christ, so that you may be a wholesome example to your people?" he promised "I will." When judgement day comes I'd prefer to be faithful to the second question (of God) rather than the first (of man). |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2007/11/15 13:56 Updated: 2007/11/15 13:56 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Yes this is more unbelievable when one recalls that most of the Revisionst not-Bishops (those who were cradle Epsicopalians which leaves out Bruno, Schori and most of the current crop), were baptized, confirmed, ordained and consecrated according to the VOWS of the 1928BCP.
There is no loyalty clause in a true BCP. The Nazis had one though... |
| Strider | Posted: 2007/11/15 14:08 Updated: 2007/11/15 14:08 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/5/26 From: Posts: 339 |
Hmmm, I thought that, in the Righter (sp?) trial, the tribunal found that ecusa had no moral teachings or doctrine. Funny, they try to trot it out when they need it.
Strider |
| patulous | Posted: 2007/11/15 14:28 Updated: 2007/11/15 14:28 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/5/18 From: Posts: 1778 |
I am still wondering if VGR is feeling like he is a celebrity. Everytime I see him on TV he's smiling like he is Mr. Important.
Quote: "Rev. John Yates, among others, violated priestly vows to be loyal to the Episcopal Church. Those vows were violated, the lawyers said, when the group led several thousand people out of the Virginia Diocese last December in protest over the 2003 consecration of Bishop V. Gene Robinson in New Hampshire." And what about the vows that VGR took when he was non-consecrated for the "bishopric"? God Bless The Faithful....pray for the Virginia Churches. |
| Rachmnnoff | Posted: 2007/11/15 16:22 Updated: 2007/11/15 16:22 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/3/15 From: Mauna Kea@13796 ft. Posts: 338 |
Maybe tec wishes that there was still the *Inquisition* or Council of Blood as envisioned by the Duke of Alba. Counselor Davenport is woefully lacking when he asks: "worship of the episcopal church". Come on! worship of a man-made thought construct?
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| servant | Posted: 2007/11/15 16:31 Updated: 2007/11/15 16:31 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/10/3 From: Dallas, Texas Posts: 191 |
It seems ridiculous to be arguing whether or not there is a division in the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia. It's a sad commentary on our times. However ...
In a December 18, 2006 article about the parishes leaving the Diocese of Virginia that I located in The Episcopal Church News Service Archives, Katharine Jefferts Schori uses the term "division": Quote: Jefferts Schori called on the rest of the Episcopal Church to "remember to pray for everybody involved – those who feel a need to leave and those who remain – to pray that those people and their families can find some peace and remember that communities can reach beyond this kind of division" [emphasis added] It's a division. We all know it's a division, and even the "ultimate authority" of the church (which is how the Episcopal diocesan lawyers have described Schori) refers to it as a division. "The defense calls Dr. Katharine Jefferts Schori as its next witness..." |
| Causidicus | Posted: 2007/11/15 19:00 Updated: 2007/11/15 19:00 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/7/3 From: Posts: 1095 |
If TEC can get away with their self-created claim to be a master REIT over properties they did not purchase, did not maintain, did not improve and did not actually occupy, based only on vows that they themselves have broken and the never properly adopted Dennis canon, then I should, as soon as possible, describe myself in a self-created document as trustee of the land and buildings at 815, record it on the NYC public records and start litigating for headquarters immediately. [My first act as landlord will be to evict all creatures of the sea.]
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| Cennydd | Posted: 2007/11/15 20:09 Updated: 2007/11/15 20:09 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
When a candidate is ordained an Anglican deacon, priest, or bishop....whether he's an Episcopalian or not....he is ordained only ONCE into Holy Orders, by the way....he swears to uphold and to defend the Christian faith as the Church Catholic received it from the Apostles, and NOT as The Episcopal Church has chosen to interpret it!
And the last I heard, The Episcopal Church is supposedly a PART of that Church....or so they claim to be. A clergyman's loyalty is to God and the Christian faith, and NOT to TEC! Cennydd |
| Falcon | Posted: 2007/11/15 22:31 Updated: 2007/11/15 22:31 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/2/16 From: A State Close to Heaven Posts: 137 |
Love your posts, Cennydd, but have a slight correction to that last one.
The 1928 Prayer Book asked a prospective bishop whether he was ready to defend the faith. Someone on this blog has pointed out previously that the question is absent from the 1979 version. Page 549, 1928 BCP Bishop. Will you be ready, with all faithful diligence, to banish and drive away from the Church all erroneous and strange doctrines contrary to God's Word; and to use both public and private monitions and exhortations, as well to the sick as to the whole, within your Cures, as need shall require, and occasion shall be given? Answer. I will, the Lord being my helper. |
| TENTEX | Posted: 2007/11/16 0:51 Updated: 2007/11/16 0:51 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/1/25 From: Murfreesboro, TN St. Patrick's (CANA) Posts: 240 |
None of these men ever took a vow of loyalty to TEC. Anyone who says they did is telling a lie in Court.
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| Ikerliker | Posted: 2007/11/16 1:21 Updated: 2007/11/16 1:21 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/16 From: PA Posts: 2051 |
Bishop. Will you be ready, with all faithful diligence, to banish and drive away from the Church all erroneous and strange doctrines contrary to God's Word; and to use both public and private monitions and exhortations, as well to the sick as to the whole, within your Cures, as need shall require, and occasion shall be given?
Answer. I will, the Lord being my helper. ...erroneous and strange doctrines contrary to God's Word... being the key. Must be alot of crossed fingers, wink-wink, nod-nod going on when most of these people get to this part. The only Lord being their helper is the Dark Lord himself. These pretenders to episcopal office have all lied their way in...the Lord being their helper. Somehow I can't see Chuckles, Spong, Bruno, Chane, Robinson (and the list goes on ad nauseum) saying this with a straight face (no pun intended for Robinson). |
| Rachmnnoff | Posted: 2007/11/16 4:30 Updated: 2007/11/16 4:30 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/3/15 From: Mauna Kea@13796 ft. Posts: 338 |
Blessed TENTEX,
BAM!!! You nailed it dear sir. Lying in Court!!! Contempt of Court charges would look pretty fine as attachments to the CV's of the goon squad at 815 and should suffice for lifetime disbarment of David Booth Beers from the ABA. ![]() |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2007/11/16 23:29 Updated: 2007/11/16 23:29 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
You're right, Falcon. I didn't have my 1928 BCP at my fingertips....my error. That section was deliberately left out of the 1979 book....one of the results of "Liturgical Renewal."
Cennydd |




















