Register now for more content and features!!    Login   Home | News | FAQ | eBooks | Weblinks | Gallery | Contact Us
News Topics
Special Reports
Columnists
VirtueOnline
Search
VOL Sponsors

North American
Anglican


The Orthodox Journal for Anglicans in North America

Historical, Theological, Practical

39Articles.com



Land of a
Thousand Hills
Coffee


Drink Coffee
Do Good



Sustainable Ministry: Coffee, Community, Social Justice

DrinkCoffee
DoGood.com



Orthodox Anglican
Priest's Manual



Hardcover and Electronic copies available

OrthoChap.com


Contact Us for advertising rates.

Exclusives : NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB Meeting
Posted by David Virtue on 2007/9/21 6:40:00 (7810 reads)

NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB Meeting

By David W. Virtue in New Orleans
www.virtueonline.org
9/21/2007

A number of orthodox Episcopal bishops are bailing out of the HOB meeting here when Dr. Rowan Williams leaves today.

"We came out of respect for Dr. Williams" two orthodox bishops told VOL. "It is clear to us, however, that there will be no change of direction for the HOB and the Episcopal Church and there is no reason for us to stay.

"We came, we spoke up, but it is very clear, despite all the niceness and "conversation" that the Episcopal Church has committed itself to a course of action that leaves no room for us." Most of the orthodox bishops did not stay at the Intercontinental Hotel but decamped at a nearby hotel as a faithful expression of opposition to the church's position on sexuality.

Mrs. Schori's offer of eight bishops who would serve as "episcopal visitors" with orthodox dioceses that are ready to leave The Episcopal Church was greeted with derision by two bishops - The Rt. Rev. Keith Ackerman (Quincy) and Pittsburgh Bishop Bob Duncan. The pair told VirtueOnline that they had never been consulted and it was laughable of her to think that she could dump this idea on them without so much as a by your leave. "We were never consulted, we are not interested in the arrangement, it is dead on arrival."

Their views echoed those of the Rt. Rev. Jeffrey Steenson, Bishop of the Rio Grande, who said that when he first heard about it the idea was dead on arrival. "It was a throwaway idea that will get thrown out."

Pittsburgh Suffragan Bishop Henry Scriven confirmed that all the talk by the House of Bishops yesterday, both public and in small table groups, did nothing but maintain the status quo. It was all very restrained, but it is clear the HOB has no intention of going back or reversing itself on its pansexual agenda.

Another bishop sadly said that he could see no path forward for orthodox bishops in the TEC. In the months ahead, violent confrontations between minority liberal clergy and orthodox bishops coupled with massive litigation to keep the church together are expected.

Everything hinges now on the Common Cause bishops meeting next week in Pittsburgh. They will decide the future of the orthodox remnant in The Episcopal Church. Bishop Duncan cautioned that nothing final will come out of the meeting as several dioceses will have diocesan conventions to call where the issues of going forward will be discussed.

PRESS CONFERENCE

At a press conference yesterday the focus was on conversation, not resolution.

Two liberal bishops, John Rabb (Maryland) and Robert O'Neil (Colorado), told a press conference that bishops, both conservative and liberal, expressed a free range of opinions, listened respectfully to one another, articulated their hopes and issues behind closed doors, but came to no conclusion about how to resolve the church's seemingly intractable problems.

Talks will continue today where the Archbishop of Canterbury is expected to make some observations before leaving town. The Joint Standing committee of the Anglican Consultative Council is expected to carry the ball once he leaves.

According to the two bishops, Williams spoke to them in the context of their conversation, but offered up only questions. Today some of the other visitors from overseas are expected to offer their responses and observations to the HOB.

Rabb said that different theological points of view were heard in "conversation" a word that was repeated some 40 times at the press conference.

"The emphasis of conversation is rooted in conversion, the process of change to listen and be one to what the other is saying. The conversation was respectful and rich in content. The HOB had very specific norms that were held too. The conversation was respectful, we listened intently and the overview was reported by the ABC."

O'Neill said Williams gave them working questions which were taken up in table groups. "We stayed together, we talked to one another and summarized what was said."

When asked if any jurisdictional questions were put to Williams, O'Neill declined to answer as it would "violate the boundaries set by the HOB." He confirmed that it came up and "we had conversation about it."

Asked by another reporter about specifics of how the HOB sees its life and ministry and how it proposed corporate care for the whole church, the two bishops said that nothing had happened conclusively. "Bishop Katharine announced that she was exploring the idea of providing provision and pastoral oversight and that was as far as it went."

Pressed by Times-Picayune reporter Bruce Nolan about the nature of that oversight and whether it was full pastoral oversight or just substitute bishops, O'Neill replied that it was up to the Presiding Bishop's office to make that clearer.

Asked about who might still be invited to Lambeth next year, Rabb replied, "only the Archbishop can answer that question."

Asked about who is going to decide whether to abide by the Primates request and its call to respond to the Windsor Report, O'Neill replied only the Archbishop with the General Convention can decide that.

Pushed about the Sept. 30 deadline set by the Primates for the HOB to be Windsor-compliant, the two bishops responded saying that the HOB as a body did not address this.

Asked if Williams represented the Primates, the bishops said no, that he was here as the Archbishop of Canterbury and was extended an invitation to come from the HOB by Mrs. Schori. There were no specific requests made of him and it is not known whether Williams is satisfied or dissatisfied.

The two bishops described the conversations as "very open and forthright. There was no holding back but the bishops conducted themselves with respect. We are having conversation; we are not done with the process."

Asked if the delegates of the Joint Standing Committee of the ACC participated in the conversation, the bishops replied, "We had a good and full exchange."

Asked by a New York Times reporter if they had any sense from Williams about what was at stake, the bishops replied that the "Dar es Salaam communique was not the essence of our conversation, it was not part of the conversation. The conversation was not about the communique."

O'Neill concluded that the six hours of conversation did not draw any conclusions, but that the HOB took its common life, ministry and responsibilities seriously.

MORIAL CENTER

Last night at the Morial Convention Center, where an estimated crowd of some 2,000 gathered to hear Dr. Williams preach, Louisiana Bishop Charles E. Jenkins welcomed Williams and praised both him and Mrs. Schori, the Episcopal Church's presiding for their leadership.

The Louisiana Bishop said New Orleans was an outward and visible sign of God's mercy and love towards us. "We stand here tonight a symbol of good that can come from utter destruction. We see associations, fellowship and people working together that had little time for one another. God is good all the time. I think here this night and in this place we see the Christian church at its best. To be unmade is to be remade."

Citing Williams's words, Jenkins said "we have been unmade, let us work to be made by God's grace that we may build a just and inclusive society. We need to keep the focus on the Kingdom of God." Dioceses were invited to bring $10,000 to help recover and rebuild the dioceses of Louisiana and Mississippi.

Williams's sermon centered on the subject of gratitude. "We need as a society, as a community that can get to a deeper place. The gospel opens us up to a deeper dimension. Hope moves us away from our fears. We owe Christ big time," he said to applause.

He made no mention of the issues beguiling the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion.

END

FOOTNOTE: The bishops gave a combined total of $931,000 to the two dioceses of Mississippi and Louisiana.

Social Bookmarking
Bookmark to: Favit Bookmark to: Digg Bookmark to: Del.icio.us Bookmark to: Facebook Bookmark to: Reddit Bookmark to: StumbleUpon Bookmark to: Furl Bookmark to: Google Bookmark to: Yahoo Bookmark to: Technorati Information        
Printer Friendly Page Send this Story to a Friend
The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.
Poster Thread
ETaylor
Posted: 2007/9/21 15:54  Updated: 2007/9/21 15:54
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/1/7
From: Missouri
Posts: 109
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
I think it's all DOA. Can we just bury it and move along?
ctowles
Posted: 2007/9/21 17:28  Updated: 2007/9/21 17:28
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/12/4
From:
Posts: 536
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
"The Louisiana Bishop said New Orleans was an outward and visible sign of God's mercy and love towards us"

I guess that the irony of attending a meeting in which the outcome breaks the Anglican Communion apart in a city that is 1/3 of what it was before the storm is lost on him. I can see God's hand in both events. Whose hand does he see? "an angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm". So be it for the city and the Communion
Sodslaw
Posted: 2007/9/21 17:29  Updated: 2007/9/21 17:29
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/8/3
From: Orthodox Bunker
Posts: 370
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
"Nothing Final will come from it" +Bob Duncan

Come on! Come on!!!!!! If you continue to wait, you will lose. We will lose. Stop being so indecisive and get us outa here!!!!

We all hang on and keep the faith but our leaders need to take some hard and fast action. And don't expect Rowan to support you, he probably won't!
Sodslaw
Posted: 2007/9/21 17:31  Updated: 2007/9/21 17:31
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/8/3
From: Orthodox Bunker
Posts: 370
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Oh and when did Jenkins go soft?? He used to be in Ft Wth diocese and was a conservative then. Did he sell out for a bishopric?
db4him
Posted: 2007/9/21 17:31  Updated: 2007/9/21 17:31
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/19
From:
Posts: 427
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB Meeting - and I hope they shake the dust from their feet before heading to Pittsburgh.
FrankV
Posted: 2007/9/21 17:41  Updated: 2007/9/21 17:41
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/5
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 302
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
They are mostly peas in a pod.
O'Neill:
The conversation was respectful and rich in content.(Manure or B.S. is rich in content - FV) The HOB had very specific norms that were held too. The conversation was respectful, we listened intently and the overview was reported by the ABC."

O'Neill said Williams gave them working questions which were taken up in table groups. "We stayed together, we talked to one another and summarized what was said."

When asked if any jurisdictional questions were put to Williams, O'Neill declined to answer as it would "violate the boundaries set by the HOB." He confirmed that it came up and "we had conversation about it."
All this bloviating from a group of sycophants and to what end?. Sad.
Newshound
Posted: 2007/9/21 17:45  Updated: 2007/9/21 17:45
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/5/5
From:
Posts: 266
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Don't expect Rowan Williams to help. This man talks in circles and anytime anyone tries to hold this man accountable for what he says, he simply states that what he has said is being taken out of context. He never does clarify the remarks "in context". Archbishop Williams has been promoting the homosexual agenda behind the scenes, and anyone who reads the British newspapers or watches television news in the United Kingdom can figure this out.
otispage2
Posted: 2007/9/21 19:05  Updated: 2007/9/21 19:05
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/3/14
From:
Posts: 639
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
As predicted -- and as everyone knew -- this game is over. The real Christians are heading for the exits.

That a once great Church has been brought to its knees in a posture of disgrace by a lusting sexual minority is an event unprecedented in history and boggles the minds of observers outside of TEC and the Communion.
Dnazzaro1
Posted: 2007/9/21 19:55  Updated: 2007/9/21 19:55
Just popping in
Joined: 2004/10/2
From: South Carolina
Posts: 3
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
When does this end? What is enough of this outrage.
It is time to move on. This is not only wrong. It is unhealthy to dwell in this place. This is a very sad time. But it is a time in history where the faithful can indeed be faithful. These swipes at justifying wrong behavior and beliefs do nothing but exalt the fallen one. If we are not careful, we all will fall. Peace, in the One who is peace. Time is up.
daveball
Posted: 2007/9/21 20:15  Updated: 2007/9/21 20:15
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/12/18
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2713
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Louisiana Bishop Charles E. Jenkins welcomed Williams and praised both him and Mrs. Schori, the Episcopal Church's presiding for their leadership.

At this point in this thread I feel like I might get a 15 yard penalty for piling on but I'll risk it.

Praised Schori and Williams for their leadership????? Wow. What galaxy has he been visiting? Schori is leading the sheep to perdition and Williams couldn't define leadership if he had to much less exercise it.
Ikerliker
Posted: 2007/9/21 21:09  Updated: 2007/9/21 21:09
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/16
From: PA
Posts: 2052
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
They were correct to leave. Nothing will change. They need to have their meeting in Pittsburgh, make some more plans and wait for their upcoming conventions and vote to leave.

I think individual parishes will continue to exit between now and the conventions. They will all vote to disassociate from TEC. It will just be a formality. It's obvious they already feel that way or they wouldn't leave early.

Stick a fork in TEC, it's done!
Climacus
Posted: 2007/9/21 22:39  Updated: 2007/9/21 22:39
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2007/2/19
From: Boston
Posts: 89
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Given the depravity of the Episcopal Church, so called "orthodox" bishops would be better offer converting to actual, God-honoring "Orthodoxy".
FrankV
Posted: 2007/9/22 0:53  Updated: 2007/9/22 0:53
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/5
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 302
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Orthodox Anglicans (Southern groups) are God honoring without a lot of extra baggage.
SpaceCadet
Posted: 2007/9/22 2:11  Updated: 2007/9/22 2:11
Just popping in
Joined: 2007/5/30
From: Burleson, TX.
Posts: 11
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Unfortunately, Curtis, that seems to be the attitude of the GLBT. They would love for the orthodox to leave TEC so that they don't have to listen to the truth. They have taken over the leadership of TEC and are not about to give it up. The orthodox refuse to give in to renaming sinful acts as identified by the Bible as "orientation".
morgan
Posted: 2007/9/22 2:27  Updated: 2007/9/22 2:37
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/6/15
From: Florida
Posts: 33
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Newshound and SpaceCadet.....
Imagine if John Paul II was the ABC, can you envision such mumbling? ++Williams is part of the cabal but doesn't have the xxxxs to say it. As for Duncan and the remaining orthodox bishops, I understand their position - why should we leave our church to the pagans. It is hard to give up a life called to the church. Perhaps we now will have a critical mass in North America to make the TEC a footnote.
morgan
morgan
Posted: 2007/9/22 2:31  Updated: 2007/9/22 2:36
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/6/15
From: Florida
Posts: 33
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Otispage2....
The TEC reminds me of another history lesson, this is how a small minority came to power in Russia and created the Soviet Union. The only remaining question is Schori Lenin, Trotsky, or Stalin?
morgan
polyphemos
Posted: 2007/9/22 6:22  Updated: 2007/9/22 6:25
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/6/29
From: και Θηος δη μεχανη
Posts: 631
 NEW ORLEANS: HOB's Choice
I find it ironic that "HOB" is an ancient nickname for their father below. The old man, whom St. James said was dead, isn't.

New Orleans is filled with the old man who oozes from the pore of every morally lazy bishop - old men and slippery women who tell "clever" greasy jokes in back rooms filled with contempt, floors sandled-smeared with the wasted blood of Christ.

Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't invite Ahminijad to preside over the Holy Communion.

Daisy

o, and Schori did have the trotskys, but she's lenin support to the lefties anyway, who are just stalin.
twaddill
Posted: 2007/9/22 21:26  Updated: 2007/9/22 21:26
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2004/11/30
From:
Posts: 21
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
What we have here is a complete and total failure to lead. While, theologically, Abp. Williams is considered brilliant, from a leadership perspective, he is really dropping the ball. Oh, how I wish we could have someone with a little bit more of a spine leading the Anglican Communion....
craigg4c
Posted: 2007/9/22 21:59  Updated: 2007/9/22 21:59
Quite a regular
Joined: 2004/10/19
From:
Posts: 67
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
For those interested (and with a fast internet connection), video of the Thursday press conference (+O'Neill and +Rabb) is here, and Friday's (+++Rowan, Mrs. Schori, et. al.) is here.
Leonard
Posted: 2007/9/23 4:54  Updated: 2007/9/23 4:54
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/11/2
From: Denver
Posts: 150
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
What a slow, agonizing death the current Anglican Communion is having. Isn't it odd that it should for all intents and purposes be dying of a (pan)sexual disease?
Cennydd
Posted: 2007/9/24 15:41  Updated: 2007/9/24 15:41
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 7348
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
Quote:
To be unmade is to be re-made.


Strange! Doesn't that sound like Integrity's mantra for TEC? Destroying the Episcopal Church in order to rebuild it according to their plan?

Cennydd
Hokie92
Posted: 2007/9/25 16:59  Updated: 2007/9/25 16:59
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/21
From: Virginia
Posts: 7
 Re: NEW ORLEANS: Orthodox Episcopal Bishops Bail on HOB M...
"Williams's sermon centered on the subject of gratitude. "We need as a society, as a community that can get to a deeper place. The gospel opens us up to a deeper dimension. Hope moves us away from our fears. We owe Christ big time," he said to applause."

That has to go down as one of the theological unstatements of all time. "We owe Christ big time" from the ABC?

Is that the mantra of the new ECUSA, "we owe Christ big time".

Am I missing something in the translation?
Support VOL

Please support VirtueOnline with a tax deductible gift.


Your support of our ministry keeps the world informed with the truth!


   


VOL Sponsors



Global Anglican Theological Institute

Multi-Lingual Bible & Theological Education



GlobalAnglican.org
sponsored by VOL







Contact Us for
advertising rates.