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Exclusives : U.S. Homosexual Bishop Says CofE Would Collapse If Gay Clergy Eliminated
Posted by David Virtue on 2007/8/1 11:50:00 (8672 reads)

U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GAY CLERGY ELIMINATED
"I won't step down," says Robinson to Williams

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
8/1//2007

Homosexual bishop Gene Robinson believes the Church of England would collapse if it did away with homoerotic clergy. He ripped its leaders who are unable to be honest about the numbers of homosexual clergy who are in their ranks. He also said the crisis was not exclusively an 'American Problem'. In his latest comments, Robinson again objected to the primates' demands, arguing that they are "antithetical" to Anglican tradition.

"The whole notion of punishment being meted out to provinces of the Anglican Communion that are somehow non-compliant is somehow antithetical to the whole Anglican tradition, positing some sort of centralized Curia that has the ability and the authority to do such a thing, is about as un-Anglican as you can imagine," he said.

Speaking in an interview in London, Robinson said that many of the English Church's clergy lived openly in their rectories with gay partners, with the full knowledge of their bishops. He criticized the stance of bishops who threaten the clergy with enmity should their relationships become public.

Said Bishop Robinson: "I have met so many gay-partnered clergy here and it is so troubling to hear them tell me that their bishop comes to their house for dinner, knows fully about their relationship, is wonderfully supportive but has also said, 'If this ever becomes public then I'm your worst enemy.'

"It's a terrible way to live your life and I think it's a terrible way to be a Church. I think integrity is so important. What does it mean for a clergy-person to be in a pulpit calling the parishioners to a life of integrity when they can't even live a life of integrity with their own bishop and their own Church? So I would feel better about the Church of England's stance, its reluctance to support the Episcopal Church in what it has done, if it would at least admit that this not just an American challenge. If all the gay people stayed away from church on a given Sunday the Church of England would be close to shut down, between its organists, its clergy, its wardens . . . it just seems less than humble not to admit that."

Robinson also said that the Episcopal Church, currently under threat of sanctions from the Communion's Primates if it does not modify its liberal agenda at a meeting of its bishops in September, has been ordaining gay priests "for many, many years. Not every bishop will do that, but many do. I will and have. Many make a requirement that the person be celibate, but many do not make such a requirement. It's interesting that the wider Anglican Communion has either not known that or has not chosen to make an issue of it before now."

He was surprised that this did not become an issue until his election arguing that if the principle of gay ordination is wrong, it should be wrong for priests and bishops, not just bishops.

Speaking of his recent meeting with the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, who is currently on study leave, Bishop Robinson said: "It was very private and I was eager and willing to accommodate him and when he asked me not to function liturgically or to preach. I was saddened by that but I want to help him as much as I can. I'm limited in what I can do and I won't step down, but other than that I am eager to try and help him any way that I can. I certainly would not do so [celebrate or preach] without his permission."

Robinson claimed that bishops in the Church of England have backed him but declined to name them. "I have received huge support from the Church of England, both from the clergy and from the pews. Hardly a day goes by, never mind a week, that I don't receive encouraging words of support. I think the thing that is the most mystifying to me and the most troubling about the Church of England is its refusal to be honest about just how many gay clergy it has."

Robinson emphasized his roots in evangelicalism. "As a matter of fact I'm more evangelical than almost anyone you would run into in the Episcopal Church . . . When I speak to gay and lesbian groups I don't talk to them about gay rights, I talk to them about their souls. My goal is to get them to church and bring them to Jesus."

As many as ten Church of England bishops indicated last week that they may boycott the Anglican Communion's 2008 Lambeth Conference. They join many Global South Anglican leaders who have already declined or threatened to decline their invitation to the global decennial meeting, objecting to the invitation of U.S. Episcopal bishops who supported the consecration of Robinson. The conservative Anglican leaders have called upon The Episcopal Church to express regret for its controversial actions believing the U.S. branch has departed from Anglican tradition and Scripture.

END

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Poster Thread
Isaac
Posted: 2007/8/1 15:05  Updated: 2007/8/1 15:05
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/3/1
From: Texas
Posts: 628
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
VGR goes on and on about integrity. Here is a person who divorced his wife to go live with another man in a homosexual relationship. He celebrates at gay bars. His idea of integrity is far different than mine.

Also, MAYBE there are many homosexual priests in the Church of England, but I think I would be more likely to believe it if I heard it from somebody else.

Isaac
Traktaryan
Posted: 2007/8/1 15:05  Updated: 2007/8/1 15:05
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/16
From:
Posts: 710
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Let it collapse.
Cennydd
Posted: 2007/8/1 15:09  Updated: 2007/8/1 15:09
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6863
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Isaac, I don't give a hoot in Hell about Mister Robinson or his opinions!

In my opinion and that of many, many others, including at least one archbishop of the Global South, he is not a validly-consecrated "bishop," and I refuse to refer to him as such.

His opinions are entirely meaningless.

Cennydd
Newshound
Posted: 2007/8/1 15:24  Updated: 2007/8/1 15:24
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/5/5
From:
Posts: 238
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
I have spent a lot of time in the UK, and have had significant contact with the CofE.

Praise the Lord for people such as John Stott, and the staffs of All Souls Church and Holy Trinity Brompton, as well as Oak Hill Theological College and Wycliffe Hall. They have led the fight for reformation and revival.
DnNeal
Posted: 2007/8/1 16:18  Updated: 2007/8/1 16:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/9/26
From: Tennessee
Posts: 1302
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
And the C of E is NOT collapsing with them THERE!

What a joke.
otispage2
Posted: 2007/8/1 16:20  Updated: 2007/8/1 16:20
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/3/14
From:
Posts: 615
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Traktaryan is right -- so let it collapse. There is a remnant of true Christians who will preserve the true faith "once given"!
Laytone
Posted: 2007/8/1 17:49  Updated: 2007/8/1 17:49
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/5/21
From: Brewton, Alabama
Posts: 90
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
So, according to Gene, the church is in it's current state due to the warped leadership of homosexual clergy? Well thanks for finally admitting to the fault. It's been 30 years in coming.
morrismpls
Posted: 2007/8/1 18:02  Updated: 2007/8/1 18:02
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/4
From:
Posts: 496
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Well, he's got one thing right. Openly gay priests will lead to gay bishops. Sort of a horse and barn door thing. They're just more noticable when they're wearing a big pointy hat.

The Righter decision saw to that.
jaqio
Posted: 2007/8/1 19:20  Updated: 2007/8/1 19:20
Quite a regular
Joined: 2007/6/13
From: texas
Posts: 52
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
i would be curious how many conservative bishops there are at the Church of England...i do not understand how AB Rowan Williams can be on holiday while our beloved Church seems to be falling into chaos! i keep holding out hope that he will come back with a wonderful master plan...

robinson is plain arrogant and quite annoying. i am starting to believe that ECUSA are just a bunch of unitarians that want to wear the pope hat.
Baruch
Posted: 2007/8/1 20:38  Updated: 2007/8/1 20:38
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2005/10/15
From: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 119
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
I concur, if it requires heretics to exist it should go under.
daveball
Posted: 2007/8/1 20:40  Updated: 2007/8/1 20:40
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/12/18
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2377
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
The words "un-Anglican" amd "integrity" coming from the mouth of Vicky Gene are simply laughable.

Besides, who cares what he thinks or says? He holds no legitimate ordained status in the communion and certainly represents no Christian perspective.

Most of you know what I think of the CofE. It's impending collapse also fits neatly into the yawn column.
RootBranch
Posted: 2007/8/1 21:08  Updated: 2007/8/1 21:08
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2007/7/8
From:
Posts: 110
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Speaking of his recent meeting with the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, who is currently on study leave, Bishop Robinson said: "It was very private and I was eager and willing to accommodate him and when he asked me not to function liturgically or to preach. I was saddened by that but I want to help him as much as I can. I'm limited in what I can do and I won't step down, but other than that I am eager to try and help him any way that I can. I certainly would not do so [celebrate or preach] without his permission."

I'm surprised that none of you caught this VERY INTERESTING TIDBIT!!! So, if we are to believe this quote is accurate, Rowan politely asked Vicky Gene to stand down and of course Vicky did not. But Rowan did not DEMAND it either. And Vicky says basically if Rowan had demanded it or in his own words not given his "permission" he WOULD have stood down.

So if that is not proof enough of the utter uselessness and de-facto acceptance of TEC's position though ommission of action by Rowan, I don't know what is.

But I know some of you weak-kneed conservatives want to give poor ol' Rowan one last chance come Sept. 30. But armed with Vicky's own words, if Rowan does not demand Vicky step down, or does not withdraw his "permission" to preach and celebrate, then the CofE should be looked on with the same horror and derision and disdain that we feel towards (T)he (E)piscopal (C)ult.

Peiod, end of story....end of the Communion.
Ikerliker
Posted: 2007/8/1 22:08  Updated: 2007/8/1 22:08
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/16
From: PA
Posts: 2051
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Astute comment Rootbranch. Just goes to show that Rowan bear doesn't want to exercise his considerable authority. He fully supports the LGBT crowd anyway. That bull pucky about not having any authority is lame. He has plenty, he just needs to USE IT!

Maybe he'll take a permanent leave and do us all a favor. Maybe Vickie Gene will join him.

Lord have mercy!
warmac9999
Posted: 2007/8/2 0:11  Updated: 2007/8/2 0:13
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/2/16
From:
Posts: 1463
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
The Anglican Communion is in collapse because the laity have finally figured out where the revisionists are and what they believe in. Sure, old folks would rather just ride things out and stay comfortably where they are. This is to be expected. However, the laity loss rate of the ACoC, TEC and the UK is really staggering. There is no real reason to believe that any of these groups will exist as a national entity more than a decade or two. Will some Christian organization eventually supplant these loser, I hope so because radical Islam is not going to sit around waiting for Christians to figure things out.

As far as I can see, secular socialist Westen Europe is a basket case, and the rise of Christianity in Europe will come from places like Poland. One also has to hope that the USA will hold together long enough to see a Christian re-emergence. If these things do not happen, your and my grandchildren will spend a lot of time face down with their butts in the air and the women will disappear behind closed doors. Sharia law can certainly suppress the freedoms most of us enjoy.
boggy
Posted: 2007/8/2 10:27  Updated: 2007/8/2 10:27
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/8/29
From:
Posts: 167
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
The C of E has already collapsed. Does the term 'dead and don't know it' mean anything to anybody?
DnNeal
Posted: 2007/8/2 11:19  Updated: 2007/8/2 17:30
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/9/26
From: Tennessee
Posts: 1302
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Ikerliker,

There was a time when a Bishop who had abandoned the Apostolic Faith would not have been asked to step down. He would instead have been escorted out.

If the C of E and TEC (and other national Dioceses) continue to exhibit "collapse" it will be because of the rot at the core.

I, for one, would like to see Canterbury recovered but will not for the time being hold my breath.

Neal
db4him
Posted: 2007/8/2 16:15  Updated: 2007/8/2 16:15
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/19
From:
Posts: 425
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Robinson emphasized his roots in evangelicalism. "As a matter of fact I'm more evangelical than almost anyone you would run into in the Episcopal Church . . . When I speak to gay and lesbian groups I don't talk to them about gay rights, I talk to them about their souls. My goal is to get them to church and bring them to Jesus."

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. Matt. 16:24

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments." John 14:15

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. Matt. 5:17

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. Lev. 20:13

While God's grace through Christ's later teaching no longer requires the death penalty be administered immediately, it is still detestable sin which will result in eternal death without Christ. Christ clearly told us how to follow Him: we must deny ourselves (our sin). How does one reconcile continuing in a lifestyle detestable to God with denying oneself?
JPollard
Posted: 2007/8/3 12:08  Updated: 2007/8/3 12:08
Just popping in
Joined: 2007/1/24
From: Montgomery, Alabama
Posts: 17
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
The Episcopal Church is like a snake whose head has been chopped off; its dead alright, but the body keeps moving for a while.
suthorpe
Posted: 2007/8/3 12:19  Updated: 2007/8/3 12:19
Just popping in
Joined: 2005/8/16
From: Washington DC/Boston MA
Posts: 14
 Not only the CofE
The diocese of Massachusetts would also be without clergy, and the SSJE monks in Cambridge would have to close the shop...
aspire1983
Posted: 2007/8/3 18:39  Updated: 2007/8/3 18:39
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/10/12
From: FORMERLY Diocese of Virginia / Now CANA
Posts: 421
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Quote:
U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GAY CLERGY ELIMINATED

Quote:
Homosexual bishop Gene Robinson believes the Church of England would collapse if it did away with homoerotic clergy.
Hmmm...

I'm not sure that there's a mobster around today who would be willing to do the honors.

I have no doubt, however, that if LBTG clergy were eliminated, the void would be filled by individuals of normal sexual orientation.
Sodslaw
Posted: 2007/8/3 23:31  Updated: 2007/8/3 23:31
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/8/3
From: Orthodox Bunker
Posts: 343
 homo you don't!
I know of so many men wo just wont sign up to serve in a church riddled with gays and lesbians in positions of leadership and authority. Scripture is clear, let's rid ourselves of the shackles of homosexual clergy and press on towards heaven, with or without canterbury!
Showmeguy
Posted: 2007/8/4 1:25  Updated: 2007/8/4 1:25
Quite a regular
Joined: 2007/3/29
From: Oklahoma
Posts: 58
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Actually I'm quite surprised that Vickie can make it through the door of any parish in the world. With an ego and head as big as his, it's a wonder he fits. And anyhow, if we had to depend on fudge-packers, I wouldn't grace the door of any Anglican church in the first place.
Ikerliker
Posted: 2007/8/4 14:52  Updated: 2007/8/4 14:52
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/16
From: PA
Posts: 2051
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Brother Neal,

I agree. The rot is bad! I also would like to see Canterbury "recovered", however, I think we have past the point of no return. It would take another Michael Ramsey to "fix" the broken COE and the Communion. At this point, no orthodox bishop will take the reins of the COE. It would be another Mark Lawrence scenario like here in the USA. It would be disputed and sabotaged to ensure it didn't happen.

And while we are on the subject of mouthly, heretical bishops....Vickie Gene is living proof of what you said about how things "used to be". That train wreck needs a muzzle. If she keeps flapping her gums, TEC will lose its Tax Exempt status with her political endorsements. That would certainly put a crimp in their lawsuit plans if they had to pay tax on that 300 million, LOL!!! The IRS would take more than half!! Wouldn't that be a shame, NOT!

Pax
DnNeal
Posted: 2007/8/4 15:18  Updated: 2007/8/4 15:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/9/26
From: Tennessee
Posts: 1302
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Ikerliker,

I'm sure you are right. Sad but true.

Blessings,

Neal
dturk
Posted: 2007/8/5 12:35  Updated: 2007/8/5 12:35
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/26
From:
Posts: 416
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Based upon ,its moribund membership, would anybody notice? The Wrong Irreverant Robinson and C of E are about as vibrant as the Shakers. Keep sticking to that non-alcoholic sacramental wine for your false masses, Gene.
cjanning
Posted: 2007/8/5 15:51  Updated: 2007/8/5 15:51
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/12/19
From: Deep East Texas
Posts: 279
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
"Homosexual bishop Gene Robinson believes the Church of England would collapse if it did away with homoerotic clergy."

Didn't Jesus have something to say about building a house on a foundation of sand?
quissum
Posted: 2007/8/6 9:41  Updated: 2007/8/6 9:41
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/2/18
From:
Posts: 338
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
In many ways, VGR, as the 'poster child gay bishop,' is doing a favor with his preposterous claims and actions. No doubt unintentionally he is exposing the deep corruption both within the sodomizing Anglo-Episcopalian establishment as well as the spiritual and moral degradation which this soul-devouring sin works in those who embrace it.

Several have referred to Robinson's "pride" and "arrogance": this is typical of the open and 'gay' homosexual who must not appear unhappy or doubtful about his/her choice. Our ‘politically correct’ society not only enables and endorses this 'gay' persona, but expects and celebrates it. Robinson--unlike any who, as Lot, have come out of Sodom and the homosexual lifestyle—is, in our sodomized culture, a celebrity because he is 'gay.' Those who believe what the Scriptures say of homosexuality might consider his wages a cost to terrible to pay, but Robinson et al. have long since "moved past" any loyalty to the biblical and apostolic teaching on sexual ethics.

Another conspicuous feature of Robinson's public statements is their sheer shamelessness. Perhaps this is an integral part of the pride, envy, arrogance, avarice, and lust that lie at the root of the homosexual sin. Having rejected God's gift of and order for sexuality, a deeply deceived and narcissistic spirit has overtaken him, an attitude amply echoed in our spiritually rebellious culture of which the media is an essential ingredient. Strip aside the ‘glitz,’ the ‘celebrity,’ and other such trappings and, by God’s grace, one can see how God sees the matter. St. Paul’s inspired observation in Romans 1:24-32 is a sobering indictment of sodomitic culture, with many insights into its moral degradation and its terrible consequences:

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them

Robinson, in his own estimation and that of his supporters, has no doubt ‘moved beyond’ this teaching—but neither belief nor power to influence others can alter the divinely instituted fact of the moral structure of the cosmos. VGR’s entire life and ministry have become a sham, a pathetic, narcissistic projection of religious fervor, pseudo-love and morality, and false 'enlightenment’—a life built on the sand.

It is always good to remind ourselves, when faced with such outrages, of the grace and mercy of God that enables our repentance and brings us to saving faith. Surely we must continue to pray that God, by His grace in Christ, shall bring other sinners--including Gene Robinson--to the Truth. Our Lord says: "What shall it profit to gain the whole world, and lose one's soul?" He alone is the true and living Way to the Father. Bishops should know this.
Sodslaw
Posted: 2007/8/6 16:52  Updated: 2007/8/6 16:53
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/8/3
From: Orthodox Bunker
Posts: 343
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Nicely said Quissum!
Rachmnnoff
Posted: 2007/8/7 12:41  Updated: 2007/8/7 12:41
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/3/15
From: Mauna Kea@13796 ft.
Posts: 338
 Re: U.S. HOMOSEXUAL BISHOP SAYS CofE WOULD COLLAPSE IF GA...
Blessed otispage2,

I concur with you and traktaryan. God will most assuredly bless and use the faithful who preserve the true faith "once given" and will continue to build the Church Triumphant whilst the heretical church of Philip Turner and VGR are immolated by the thermonuclear fire of God's wrath.

In Xrist,

SR
griever
Posted: 2007/8/8 21:23  Updated: 2007/8/8 21:23
Just popping in
Joined: 2007/2/23
From: San Jose,California
Posts: 15
 Re: U.S. Homosexual Bishop Says CofE Would Collapse If Ga...
In many ways, VGR, as the 'poster child gay bishop,' is doing a favor with his preposterous claims and actions.

The same holds for Jefforts-Schori. Unlike Griswold who was inclined to double-speak, she boldly and confidently reveals TEC's real state and direction.
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