Exclusives : VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terrorizing Tactics Will Fail
VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terrorizing Tactics Will Fail
By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
7/12/2007
A leader for 19 churches that have left The Episcopal Church (TEC) in the Diocese of Virginia and affiliated with two orthodox African Anglican provinces, says that the Episcopal Church's "terrorizing tactics" will fail and the volunteer laity of those churches being sued by the diocese are immune from civil liability.
Jim Oakes, vice-chairman of the Anglican District of Virginia for 15 Convocation of Anglican Nigerians in Americas (CANA) affiliated churches plus four with the Province of Uganda, told VirtueOnline, "We are supremely confident with what we have done and with the right motives. We have already won. The legal fights are merely distracting and unfortunate."
Oakes said he could find no motive for the Episcopal Church's suing lay individuals except with the motive "to terrorize us."
"Virginia law is abundantly clear that voluntary leaders of non-profit organizations are immune from civil liability unless the plaintive alleges willful misconduct or criminal negligence and they have not alleged any of this," he told VOL. "They are trying to terrorize people and we believe that their only intention it to send a signal to lay church leaders across the country who follow us. They are trying to implement a dampening effect on other churches that are looking at us and hope they will lie low and not try and leave the Episcopal Church. Attorneys for the diocese and The Episcopal Church are following a scorched earth policy."
The Episcopal Church recently filed a motion amending their lawsuit to add individual vestry members who were elected to the vestries of these new churches long after they had left TEC according to Oakes.
"This makes the sin more egregious. These lay people were not even on board when the parishes were with TEC, but since they left the diocese and TEC and joined CANA and the Anglican District of Virginia they have now been singled out by the diocese for legal action. It is all about intimidation."
Oakes says the priests and parishes are determined that this distraction will not keep them from their core mission. "To that end we have determined we will not let legal expenses cause us to curtail any of our mission and ministry.
"Our strong desire is to be a facilitating presence for orthodox Anglicanism in Virginia. We don't want to be in a legal fight with the Diocese of Virginia, we are missionary church and nothing will cause us to lose our focus," said Oakes who is a vestry member at Truro Anglican Church.
"We are not feeling is the least threatened by their suing us. It is incredibly frustrating. We did not make any of these moves. We went through an extensive discernment process and we made sure we informed the diocese of what we were doing every step of the way. We had a number of face to face meetings with Bishop Peter James Lee."
Oakes said the directors and officers of the sued churches had retained lawyers and insurance law covers them.
To date 11 (being sued) of the 19 parishes have spent nearly $1 million but expect the tab to be closer to $5 million when it is all done. Oakes estimates the diocese will spend $3-5 million for a total of nearly $10 million, money that should have been spent on mission work.
"One of the tragedies is the right the diocese thinks it has if it wins to take over a bunch of empty buildings. Our churches are vibrant and growing congregations. We have new Confirmands almost weekly joining the church, with vibrant Vacation Bible Schools for future generations in our churches.
"They (the diocese) chose to sever their ties with us. We are confident of our position. Our churches are healthy and growing. We are not mad at anybody. We grieve for the Episcopal Church."
Oakes said the 19 churches from the two African Anglican jurisdictions work cooperatively. "We are delighted for the kind of partnerships that Archbishops Henry Luke Orombi and Peter Akinola demonstrate. Both Bishop Martyn Minns of CANA and bishop-elect John Guernsey will be working together. This is a partnership, it is not competitive; we have completely congregational support."
The Virginia churches are actively soliciting contributions to a legal defense fund. They invite people to make contributions to:
Anglican District of Virginia Legal Defense Fund
c/o- Truro Church
10520 Main Street
Fairfax, VA 22030.
END
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| Poster | Thread |
|---|---|
| Cennydd | Posted: 2007/7/12 22:04 Updated: 2007/7/12 22:04 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
 Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro...Let me assure you, David, that I am one lay leader who has absolutely NO intention of rolling over and playing dead!
Stubborn damned Welshmen don't quit! Cennydd |
| TENTEX | Posted: 2007/7/12 22:29 Updated: 2007/7/12 22:29 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/1/25 From: Murfreesboro, TN St. Patrick's (CANA) Posts: 240 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... Does anyone know if these lay volunteers can countersue the diocese and/or TEC, in order to make them pay their legal costs?
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| Isaac | Posted: 2007/7/12 22:42 Updated: 2007/7/12 22:42 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/3/1 From: Texas Posts: 628 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... Doesn't the Bible say that Christians are not supposed to sue Christians?
Oh silly me, I forgot. The TEC leaders are not Christian. Isaac |
| railbirdbc | Posted: 2007/7/13 0:07 Updated: 2007/7/13 0:15 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/6/6 From: Posts: 767 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... This kind of behavior is typical of the the Fascism of the Left -- all talk, talk, talk about love and justice with an extended right hand, while carrying a huge monkey wrench in the left hand to crush the skulls of their opponents. In the neighborhood where I grew up and went to school, we called these kind of people common bullies. In the world of organized crime they are called dockside bullies. But the one thing bullies have to be careful of, is that one day a bigger bully might just come along and cleanup the floor with them. That's the risk bullies take. It seems to me that the Biblical stories too are full of bullies, but they all came to sticky ends when the story-line was finally wrapped up. And, for those of us that really believe, we are told that a time is coming when all the bullies will be dealt with justly, but finally. We will all require God's mercy on that day, but I believe some will come out worse off than others -- especially those that set themselves up as the enemies of God and were bullies to His beloved children.
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| ZachS | Posted: 2007/7/13 0:13 Updated: 2007/7/13 0:14 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/5/1 From: Posts: 210 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... Cennydd: With all due respect, you have not yet begun to fight.
Pax ZachS |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2007/7/13 0:28 Updated: 2007/7/13 0:28 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... Yep, you're right!
However........ Cennydd |
| Fisherman | Posted: 2007/7/13 1:06 Updated: 2007/7/13 1:07 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/8/25 From: Dallas - Province of the Southern Cone, DoFW Posts: 675 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... TENTEX asks can 'these lay volunteers' 'countersue the diocese and/or TEC, in order to make them pay their legal costs?'
Yeppers. |
| Brize | Posted: 2007/7/13 1:51 Updated: 2007/7/13 1:52 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2006/11/9 From: Posts: 21 |
Another example of the gentle resonableness of the Diocese of Virginia July 12, 2007
To: The clergy of The Diocese of Virginia From: The Bishop's Office Dear Friends in Christ, The Board of Directors of Shrine Mont, Inc., has clarified Shrine Mont policy regarding reservations for use of the conference center. The clarified policy is as follows: The order of priority for reservations for available spaces at Shrine Mont shall be as follows: 1. Churches in the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia and institutions, agencies, committees and groups affiliated with the Diocese. 2. Episcopal congregations and entities in other dioceses as well as congregations and entities whose mission and ministry are consonant with the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia. 3. All other groups. This policy is in effect now regarding reservations for calendar year 2008 and beyond. Shrine Mont continues to be open to groups outside the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia. The clarified policy is not punitive to any group but rather ends a de facto practice of denying parish groups from the Diocese of Virginia thus favoring groups that do not wish to be part of the Diocese. The net effect is to free space that has long been used by groups that have now departed from the Episcopal Church. Some of those groups are large so the possible impact on Shrine Mont might be a financial shortfall. The Board hopes that the Episcopal Churches that previously have been unable to reserve space in Shrine Mont will fill those spaces. The Board agreed that any net shortfall will be offset by the Board using funds under their control. While I am saddened by the consequences of churches leaving our common life, the decision of Shrine Mont Board is necessary and strengthening for our churches. |
| Newshound | Posted: 2007/7/13 12:05 Updated: 2007/7/13 12:05 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/5/5 From: Posts: 238 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... I attended Truro, the Falls Church and Church of the Apostles for many years. Clergy and lay leaders in all of these churches are God fearing, Bible believing Christians who love the Lord.
I think the Diocese of Virginia should really step back and examine their motives. The orthodox churches that have left the Diocese of Virginia were the backbone of the ministry |
| warmac9999 | Posted: 2007/7/13 13:25 Updated: 2007/7/13 13:26 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... The Diocese of Virginia knows that they have lost the congregations, and that these congregations were the backbone of the ministry. At this point, the Diocese of Virginia's only hope is to get a hold of property and to force the 19 churches to pay for the privilege of departing or staying under some rental agreement.
The Diocese of Virginia and the TEC is in desperate need of money. The TEC is losing laity at a rate of about 3% per year on average if you can believe their numbers. The membership numbers are just for the media and the real count is in Sunday Attendance. (It would be ironic if, like the Anglican Church of Canada, the Sunday attendance was virtually nothing yet a couple of million people were on the books as members.) There is simply no real vitality in the TEC other than that provided by the GLAADs and a very small number of left wing feminists. The old folks just hang in there and ignore the destruction --- which is quite a sad commentary on the supposed greatest generation. The young families so important to the future of any church are either leaving in droves or avoiding anything Episcopal. |
| Newshound | Posted: 2007/7/13 14:11 Updated: 2007/7/13 14:24 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/5/5 From: Posts: 238 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... warmac 9999,
Thanks for your post. I agree. The majority of the people that I worshipped and worked with in the Episcopal Church were the elderly people, "The greatest generation". Anytime I brought up anything that dealt with conflict, or criticism of the institution in anyway I was scolded and told to "hush". The World War Two generation may have been brave on D day, but they sure want to avoid conflict or confrontation when anyone dares to criticize the great institution of The Episcopal Church. |
| cjanning | Posted: 2007/7/13 14:28 Updated: 2007/7/13 14:28 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/12/19 From: Deep East Texas Posts: 279 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... "Yea, though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me..."
And folks are supposed to fear those bozos? |
| Newshound | Posted: 2007/7/13 14:51 Updated: 2007/7/13 14:51 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/5/5 From: Posts: 238 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... Psalm 16:4, "The sorrows of those will increase who run after other gods
Isaiah 48:11, " My glory I will not give to another" and that includes prayer books, tradition, stained glass windows, church buildings that have been around for hundreds of years etc, Mrs Schori, The big R, (Rowan Williams), Bishop Pike, etc etc etc..... |
| Deesend | Posted: 2007/7/13 19:30 Updated: 2007/7/13 19:30 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/2/15 From: Iowa Posts: 25 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... "Yea, though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me..."
I had a very good RC friend who used to quote this passage, but would add; "and You have made me the toughest son of a gun in the Valley". May the 19, with the help of the Lord, be the "toughest in the Valley...... |
| bradhutt | Posted: 2007/7/14 2:29 Updated: 2007/7/14 2:29 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2004/5/5 From: Washington D.C. Metro Area Posts: 146 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... How is this situation in Virginia any different from the situation in 1790 when American Bishops Seabury, White, Provoost and Madison joined to consecrate Thomas Claggett in Trinity Church New York and the Episcopate in the American Church declared its independence from the Church of England? Did the church of England run to the courts to sue the American Church, did they lay claim to American property? No, because Christians were dealing with Christians. Who are these people who write Canons to claim property that isn't theirs and then take to the courts?
They are a total embarassment to all who proclaim to be Episcopalians. |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2007/7/14 3:24 Updated: 2007/7/14 3:24 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... Bradhutt, the difference here is that TEC is no longer a Christian church; having denied the authority of Holy Scripture, questioned the Virgin Birth, the divinity of Jesus, the Resurrection, and the Ascension.
I believe that they would be outraged. Instead, the heretics running the Church adhere to the supremacy of Man's laws through the canons and the worship of Mammon....the love of money. I can imagine the reaction of Bishops Seabury, White, Provoost and Madison....not to mention other such notables of Episcopal Church history as George Washington, Robert E. Lee, Bishop Leonidas Polk, and other luminaries of their time to what their Church has become. Cennydd |
| ctowles | Posted: 2007/7/14 12:36 Updated: 2007/7/14 12:36 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/12/4 From: Posts: 498 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... If the Diocese of Virginia willfully violates the law regarding suing, " Virginia law is abundantly clear that voluntary leaders of non-profit organizations are immune from civil liability unless the plaintive alleges willful misconduct or criminal negligence and they have not alleged any of this," the diocese will have willfully damaged those voluntary leaders of non-profit organizations. Those leaders would be entitled to recover damage done to them from the diocese. It wouldn't take too many countersuits for damages to make 815 ammend its ways shall we say. These types of suits are often done on a percentage basis with law firms making them essentially free in up front money to pursue. Go after the trusts and these silly bishops will fade away. The bishops themselves I take it are paid and therefore personally liable and should be added to the countersuits. If their pension was on the line they would blink and wave a hand frantically for it all to go away.
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| bradhutt | Posted: 2007/7/14 15:38 Updated: 2007/7/14 15:38 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2004/5/5 From: Washington D.C. Metro Area Posts: 146 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... ctowles,
In other words you fight fire with fire. I agree. Where in the blazes are the attorneys who could do this? It can't be all that damn difficult when a slick lawyer down in Wash. D.C. filed a lawsuit for $75 Million against a drycleaners for loosing a pair of his pants. We Laity must get off our knees praying for the primates to do something and do it ourselves! |
| bradhutt | Posted: 2007/7/14 15:48 Updated: 2007/7/14 15:48 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2004/5/5 From: Washington D.C. Metro Area Posts: 146 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... And another thing, we need to forget about us being Christians here, for we are not fighting Christians.
And if our worthy oppenents deem it necessary to take to the Civil Courts to acquire our properties they paid not a dime for, we also must take to the civil courts to not only defend it but to take the Episcopal Church we once knew back and if that fails, our civil right to leave with our property. |
| warmac9999 | Posted: 2007/7/14 18:58 Updated: 2007/7/14 18:58 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... Less we forget, Jesus fought the money changers in the temple because they were perverting the faith. The TEC is nothing but a bunch of money changers, and there is certainly no reason to refrain from countersuit or to initiate suit in defense of the faith.
One of the nasty aspects of political correctness is that it wants to pacify everyone by appealing to love and nonjudgemental thinking. The reason for this is that those pushing political correctness want to be able to take over and lead an already docile population. Those who resist will be destroyed if at all possible. One final thought: The TEC laity are misguided Christians. The TEC clergy are not Christians. It is important, when involved with the law of the land, to remember the distinction. |
| patulous | Posted: 2007/7/14 19:30 Updated: 2007/7/14 19:30 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2007/5/18 From: Posts: 1778 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... The Lord Jesus Christ reminds us in the Word: Matthew 5:44, "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you." By many of your comments, you too have forgotten what to do. I too lost the church I loved and wish all this had not happened. Join with me and pray each morning before you get out of bed, again at noon, and before you go to bed at night. Thousands of prayers by concerned christians, will lift this to our Lord, and he will take action. God bless you all, and let's start tonight 7-14-07.
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| bradhutt | Posted: 2007/7/15 11:48 Updated: 2007/7/15 11:48 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2004/5/5 From: Washington D.C. Metro Area Posts: 146 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... patulous,
We have not forgotten what to do, and you are correct in saying We need to be continually praying about this. BUT we had better get off our asses and do something. The Laity are the only ones who can remedy the situation and they are doing it. One Million Episcopalians have left the unchurch in the last Decade, while the population increased by 16%. |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2007/7/16 15:15 Updated: 2007/7/16 15:15 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... You're right, bradhutt! It's time to stop TALKING about taking legal action, and time to start DOING it! Go after the trust funds! MAKE the bishops squeal! Put THEIR paychecks and retirement pensions on the line! Shove THEIR faces in the mud!
Then watch them back down! Cennydd |
| bradhutt | Posted: 2007/7/17 1:24 Updated: 2007/7/17 1:24 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2004/5/5 From: Washington D.C. Metro Area Posts: 146 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... What if?
Every diocese in the Episcopal Church was presented with a class action law suit for $250,000,000. or so for TEC actions that created undue hardship upon church vestries for lost membership and income for the past ten years while expenses skyrocketed. Not to hard to prove. |
| bradhutt | Posted: 2007/7/17 1:31 Updated: 2007/7/17 1:31 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2004/5/5 From: Washington D.C. Metro Area Posts: 146 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... And then TEC has the gonads to ask their parishes for an increase in giving. The less are asked to give more.
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| fastball | Posted: 2007/7/17 4:27 Updated: 2007/7/17 4:27 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/6/29 From: Oklahoma City Posts: 555 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... "The Episcopal Church recently filed a motion amending their lawsuit to add individual vestry members who were elected to the vestries of these new churches long after they had left TEC according to Oakes"
-------------------------------------------------------- And the Enemy sits back and laughs and laughs and laughs..... |
| Laytone | Posted: 2007/7/18 0:53 Updated: 2007/7/18 0:53 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2004/5/21 From: Brewton, Alabama Posts: 90 |
Re: VIRGINIA: Anglican Leader Says Episcopal Church Terro... TEC has traded in the books of the Bible and are attempting to find an alternate salvation through a stack of law books.
If the legal system is the god they have chosen to follow, they are doomed to fail. There is a long history of persecuting faithful Christians. It has been tried by kings,emperors, dictators and governments and they have all failed. Even as we are going through this, I look at the resolve of the Russian Orthodox Church and see them standing above the ashes of communism. Who would have thought that would be possible back in 1968? Our call is simply to remain faithful. God will do it His way. |
