AMIA BISHOP SAYS TEC WILL EXPERIENCE LINGERING, WITHERING DEATH

VirtueOnline interviews the new interim President of Trinity School for Ministry, the Rt. Rev. John D. Rodgers.

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
6/6/2007

VOL: You are back at TSM your old stomping ground as interim president(for a year) following the resignation of Dr. Paul Zahl. Are you surprised at this move?

RODGERS: We were all completely and utterly surprised. We were all saddened. Paul and Mary have been strong supporters of TSM from its inception. It would seem that Paul felt that he had made the contribution that he could make and wanted to move on to where he could make his next contribution to the sharing of the Gospel. We will greatly miss him.

VOL: What do you hope to achieve during this period?

RODGERS: Well, since I know the School somewhat, I hope to help the board, faculty and students provide continuity and a smooth transition to the next Dean/President. I hope that we will continue to increase in effective teaching and learning, and in practical caring as a school dedicated to scholarship, practical ministry, and desiring to model together what we are receiving by God's truth and grace. I also hope we will do a better job in relating to the alumni and in joining with them in recruiting new students and supporters. In the present situation in the Church it will take a team effort if we are to serve the Kingdom well.

VOL: Will you be part of a group looking to find a permanent president for the seminary?

RODGERS: No, I will not be on the search committee. I will feel free to suggest names to them, as I hope all of your readers will do as well.

VOL: Can you clear up the name of the seminary? IS it Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry (TESM) or TSM - Trinity School for Ministry? There is some confusion in my mind and those of my readers? I have heard and seen it read that it is now Trinity Anglican School for Ministry. Some clarification would be helpful.

RODGERS: I am not as clear as I might be on this. "Trinity School for Ministry" is the public name and appears on the publications and stationery. This name makes it clear that Trinity is not funded by the Episcopal Church and is open to educate godly, biblical, qualified persons, male and female, for ministry, lay and ordained, from all Anglican groups, including those who sense a call to remain in TEC, as well as all ecumenical groups.

"Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry" remains the legal name and will most probably be changed when the institutional scene in the Church comes to some settled state. It takes a good bit of work and expense to change all of the legal documents. Better to wait until the final name is certain and do it then.

VOL: You have been in the forefront of the battle in the Episcopal Church for over 40 years; do you have a sense that we are reaching the end of the road here in the U.S.?

RODGERS: I sense that we are approaching a decision point. What is now apparent is that the crisis is not only in TEC but in the Anglican Communion itself. The Western Provinces and the provinces that they have deeply influenced are as compromised as TEC. I suspect that the issue over attendance at Lambeth 2008 may be that point. However I have thought that we were about to face the facts in the past and been disappointed. Perhaps the fact that TEC is so clearly unrepentant and the continuing loss of members in Churches where the biblical Faith is truncated or contradicted may help both us and the Global South take the needed action.

VOL: You, along with the Anglican Mission in America bishops have not been invited to Lambeth 2008. Are you disappointed? Was this expected?

RODGERS: I never expected to be invited because I am somewhat retired so there was no personal disappointment. I did not expect CANA or AMIA or TEC to be invited. That all of the TEC bishops were invited, given their unrepentance, is amazing and makes the clear point that we can expect no discipline from the Archbishop of Canterbury. I actually think that this is an unintended helpful action, for it makes the need for bold action by the orthodox utterly clear.

VOL: Lambeth 2008. Did you think you would be invited?

RODGERS: No.

VOL: Will you personally write to Dr. Williams and ask for an explanation?

RODGERS: No. I am very happy with the AMIA response and the warnings of Nigeria, Uganda and I suspect I will be happy with the statement from the House of Bishops of Rwanda.

VOL: Do you think that your Archbishop Emmanuel Kolini will go to bat for you and Bishop Murphy and the other AMIA bishops to get you that invite?

RODGERS: I would prefer that all of the Global South Bishops not attend, inviting all of the orthodox Provinces to join them in another location at the same time. I would like to be invited to attend that gathering of Bishops, which would be taking counsel in the light of the Word of God written.

VOL: It has just been announced that Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola will probably not attend Lambeth 2008 with his 122 bishops and archbishops because Bishop Martyn Minns did not get an invitation. Do you think Archbishop Kolini might take the same stance with AMIA bishops?

RODGERS: The logic of Archbishop Akinola makes sense to me. I suspect that the Global South will act together. I hope so. By the same logic TEC should not attend since Bishop Robinson was not invited. I wonder if they will be that consistent or show that much "integrity".

VOL: You recently authored the SPREAD document that accused Archbishop Rowan Williams of being complicit in the gay agenda for years preceding his rise to the top post in the Anglican Communion. You also said he has basically not changed his views even as the Archbishop of Canterbury. Did you ever hear back from him with regard to those accusations? Did anyone in his office contact you about the charges?

RODGERS: I have been part of a team working on all sorts of petitions and supplements as well as those coming from SPREAD and we have always triple checked our facts. Not once has anyone claimed that we have erred in our facts. In this particular case no one has responded to the document criticizing its facts or interpretations.

VOL: Do you see an imminent collapse of the Episcopal Church?

RODGERS: No, I see a lingering death. It will take some time.

VOL: Will it wither and die rather than totally collapse like the Soviet Union did?

RODGERS: I believe it will be withering rather than sudden collapse.

VOL: Do you see the TEC being thrown out or ostracized by the wider Anglican Communion?

RODGERS: I think a major division of the Anglican Communion is more likely.

VOL: Do you see eventual schism in the whole Anglican Communion with evangelicals in Africa and the West simply saying 'we have had enough 'and going their own way, with TEC announcing that it has 15 countries lined up that will be their communion.

RODGERS: Yes, that seems most likely to me in the not so long run.

VOL: Do you see any good resolution to the property issues confronting orthodox rectors trying to get free of revisionist TEC bishops?

RODGERS: Were the Anglican Communion to hold together and were the Communion to declare that TEC has violated its own Constitution and its standing in the Communion, then there might be a legal way that the orthodox might keep their buildings. But that does not seem likely. In those States where personal property principles are used, and not the ecclesiastical hierarchy principle, the orthodox have had some success. On the whole it looks dim for the orthodox to me. Better to have the blessing than the building, if one has to choose.

VOL: Will you ever really retire?

RODGERS: Yes, on one level. I told the Board I would serve as Interim Dean/President for 1 year. I meant that. On another level, I believe I have read somewhere we are all destined to "go from strength to strength in a life of perfect service" and that doesn't sound like just golf or tennis to me. There are the great feasts and worship services predicted so it must not be all work and no play.

VOL: Thanks John.

RODGERS: Thank you, David, for asking.

---The Rt. Rev. John D. Rodgers is Dean Emeritus of Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry in Ambridge, a former Episcopal priest, and now a bishop in the Anglican Mission in America.