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News : LONDON: Archbishop attacks 'erosion of Christian values'
Posted by David Virtue on 2007/4/24 9:40:00 (2540 reads)

LONDON: Archbishop attacks 'erosion of Christian values'

By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent
The Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/24/nlabour124.xml
4/24/2007

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, will launch a fierce attack today on the "moral relativism" that is eroding Christian values in society and Government.

In a speech that will be seen as a sharp criticism of New Labour, Dr Williams will say that "those who run things" reject the idea that society needs core values as "unfashionable and unwelcome". But without such shared values, he will warn, society's definition of what is good for people will be largely determined by powerful interest groups.

Dr Williams will say that religious leaders must be guaranteed a central role in a reformed House of Lords to ensure moral issues are taken seriously. Otherwise, he will argue, political debate will lack "voices unconstrained by electoral anxiety and narrow considerations of practical profitability".

The most recent vote in the House of Commons for a fully elected second chamber would remove the 26 Church of England bishops who currently sit in the Lords.

The Archbishop will also decry the lack of moral vision displayed by MPs compared to the likes of William Wilberforce, who was instrumental in the abolition of the slave trade 200 years ago.

Giving the William Wilberforce lecture in Hull, the birthplace of the Christian reformer, he will say: "The old idea of political virtue is becoming more and more remote."

And in a strong rallying cry, he will tell Christians that they are justified in mounting vigorous campaigns against the state if it is eroding Christian morality. "If the state perpetuates in the corporate life of the nation what is directly contrary to the Christian understanding of God's purpose, then Christian activism in respect of changing the law is justified, primarily when the state is responsible for - so to speak - compromising the morality of all its citizens."

Dr Williams will call for a return to a moral society in which the state recognises "wider considerations than those of immediate profit and security." "This makes sense, though, only if it is possible to convince those who run things in the public sphere that there are human values and ethical norms to which an entire society is answerable. In our relativist climate, this is very difficult. What tends to happen is that nothing much is left as a substantive moral basis for public life except a poorly defined principle of tolerance or avoidance of mutual harm.

"The idea that you can give substance to a common social ethic, something to which society as a whole can be held accountable, is unfashionable and unwelcome.

"Even from the point of view of many who have no religious commitment, there is a recognition that this is a thin diet.

"But the problem is deeper still. Without a notional standard of human excellence and human flourishing, the definition of what is good for people is always going to be vulnerable to what happens to suit a dominant interest group."

Dr Williams will say that it should be "disturbing" for MPs that some of the most effective political campaigns of recent times, such as the campaign to cancel Third World debt, received most of its impetus from outside Parliament.

Arguing for a role for religious leaders in the House of Lords, he will say: "The nature and extent of religious representation in the upper house... is not a marginal question at all in the light of this discussion."

END

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Poster Thread
DnNeal
Posted: 2007/4/24 12:52  Updated: 2007/4/24 12:52
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/9/26
From: Tennessee
Posts: 1302
 Re: LONDON: Archbishop attacks 'erosion of Christian...
Quote:
"If the state perpetuates in the corporate life of the nation what is directly contrary to the Christian understanding of God's purpose, then Christian activism in respect of changing the law is justified, primarily when the state is responsible for - so to speak - compromising the morality of all its citizens."


Clever words from a great compromiser of traditional Christian virtue.

I need definitions of nearly every term he uses simply to know what he is talking about. What he means by "Christian" most often isn't very close to what traditionalists of any stripe mean.

And what is this? Strong words about something?

I smell a political agenda in service of some amorphous and meaningless Anglican "unity".

Sorry Mr. Archbishop, you very long ago lost the right to have my trust (if you ever had it to begin with).

Neal

Christ is risen!
otispage2
Posted: 2007/4/24 13:15  Updated: 2007/4/24 13:19
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/3/14
From:
Posts: 731
 Re: LONDON: Archbishop attacks 'erosion of Christian...
The following is repeated here as posted on
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5885

Atheism is the logical alternative to the growing apostasy in the CofE and TEC. Where we once had belief in Christ and the miracle of His salvation, there is the dispossessed who are becoming convinced that Christianity is only a myth after all because of CofE's and TEC's witness.

The massive secularism of the CofE and TEC confirms the historian Will Durant's assessment:

The Lessons of History; 1968: Chapter VII; Religion and History; Page 48:

A thousand signs proclaim that Christianity is undergoing the same decline that fell upon the old Greek religion after the coming of the Sophists and the Greek Enlightenment."

Chapter XII; Growth and Decay; Page 92 - 93:

"As education spreads, theologies lose credence, and receive an external conformity without influence upon conduct or hope. Life
and ideas become increasingly secular, ignoring supernatural explanations and fears. The moral code loses aura and force as its human origin is revealed, and as divine surveillance and
sanctions are removed.

Chapter VII; Religion and History; Page 45

"History has justified the Church in the belief that the masses of mankind desire a religion rich in miracle, mystery, and myth. Some minor modifications have been allowed in ritual, in
ecclesiastical costume, and in Episcopal authority; but the Church dares not alter the doctrines that reason smiles at,for such changes would offend and disillusion the millions whose hope have been tied to inspiring and consolatory imaginations.

Chapter VII; Religion and History; Page 46

"Does history support a belief in God? If by God we mean not the creative vitality of nature but a supreme being intelligent and benevolent, the answer must be a reluctant negative..... history
remains at bottom a natural selection of the fittest individuals and groups in a struggle wherein goodness receives no favors,
misfortunes abound,and the final test is the ability to survive.

Add to the crimes,wars, and cruelties of man the earthquakes, storms, tornadoes,pestilences,tidal waves, and other 'acts of God' that periodically desolate human and animal life,and the total evidence suggests either a blind or an impartial fatality, with incidental and apparently haphazard scenes to which we subjectively ascribe order, splendor, beauty,or sublimity..... Nature and history do not agree with our conception of good and bad;they define good as that which survives, and bad at that which goes under; and the universe has no prejudice in favor of Christ as against Genghis Khan."

What good comes from a witness that betrays God as evident today in the CofE and TEC? It is God's wrath -- the function of God "throwing over" the church to "its corporate self" (Rom 1:18-32), the once rich tradition of "the faith once given", to the cynical teachings that the Scriptures lie on the sin of homosexuality.
Howell
Posted: 2007/4/24 15:00  Updated: 2007/4/24 15:00
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/13
From: Colorado
Posts: 484
 Re: LONDON: Archbishop attacks 'erosion of Christian...
Rowen upset by moral relativism??? What does he think is going on at TEC before his very eyes????
Fisherman
Posted: 2007/4/24 16:44  Updated: 2007/4/24 16:45
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/8/25
From: Dallas - Province of the Southern Cone, DoFW
Posts: 676
 Re: LONDON: Archbishop attacks 'erosion of Christian...
"The idea that you can give substance to a common social ethic, something to which society as a whole can be held accountable, is unfashionable and unwelcome."

While he's at it he might want to mention moral rationalism and it relationship to freethinking. If he still has some time on the clock a brief dissertation on moral anarchy could fill the void.
warmac9999
Posted: 2007/4/24 16:47  Updated: 2007/4/24 19:38
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/2/16
From:
Posts: 1560
 Re: LONDON: Archbishop attacks 'erosion of Christian...
The rejection of traditional Christian values and the full acceptance of the secular progressive agenda is the cause of "moral relativism". The ABC apparently cannot see the contradictions in his logic. This is truly amazing.

Now, all of a sudden, he is issuing a call to fight. My goodness, he has no standing - and his critics will quickly point to his equivocation. I suspect we will get platitudes but nothing useful in arresting the trends.

I would remind the ABC that he already has something worth fighting for and it is readily available in the Bible if he would only choose to use it.
quissum
Posted: 2007/4/24 18:45  Updated: 2007/4/24 18:45
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/2/18
From:
Posts: 349
 Re: LONDON: Archbishop attacks 'erosion of Christian...
One fears that his Grace and those of his ilk do not perceive--or will not confess--their deep complicity in the moral devastation that Dr. Williams discerns and decries. Could it be the threatened loss of 26 seats in Parliament that finally moves the "lords spiritual" to defend their crimson cushions with a moral vocabulary their sins of commission and omission have often undermined and failed to uphold?

How very sad to see an institution as the Church of England, so powerfully used of God in times past, presided over by such beggarly elements. Rather than standing uncompromisingly for Christian morality, how often have Anglican bishops been in the forefront of movements endorsing moral laxity!

The Greco-Roman rhetorical tradition places great emphasis on a speaker's ethos, his moral standing as understood by hearers. The right words from the wrong mouth most often will fall on deaf ears.
john123
Posted: 2007/4/24 19:01  Updated: 2007/4/24 19:01
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/7/12
From:
Posts: 568
 Re: LONDON: Archbishop attacks 'erosion of Christian...
I rest my case.
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