COLORADO SPRINGS: Liberal Bishop Pulls Out Stops to Silence Orthodox Priest
COMMENTARY
By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonlne.org
3/16/2007
The Bishop of Colorado, Rob O'Neill, wants the orthodox rector of the largest parish in his diocese, Fr. Don Armstrong, deposed and tossed out of his diocese and, if possible, The Episcopal Church (TEC).
This week marks a full year that the bishop, his attorneys and accountants have had this prominent conservative parish and its rector under a $200,000 microscope trying to find financial misconduct; reminding one of the saying: show me the man and I'll find you the crime.
As if that weren't enough to throttle the voice of Grace Church's outspoken rector, the bishop has also inhibited him severely, banning him from church property or any parish communication, that he is simply unable to mount a defense. This so frustrated one of his attorneys that the attorney withdrew from the case.
The vestry itself was only given any substantive report of the accusations this past Thursday evening, one year and a day after the bishop began his investigation. Ironically, Martin Nussbaum, the presenting attorney, advised the vestry of its need to sit down with Armstrong to determine what had been done to fulfill its own fiduciary responsibilities, but when asked if that was against the inhibition, Nussbaum had to admit that the bishop had simply precluded either the rector or the vestry from being able defend themselves from the bishop's own threats or to fulfill their roles.
The battle moved into open hostility on Dec. 27, 2006, when O'Neill suddenly removed Armstrong from his parish of 20 years and put him on paid administrative leave. The tactics and tyranny of the bishop and Diocesan Standing Committee can only be described as Gestapo-like as the bishop has not found one shred of evidence that links Armstrong with grand larceny or even financial malfeasance.
Fr. Armstrong is reported to be under ecclesial rectory arrest, totally isolated from his friends, staff, and congregation. His laptop computer and cell phone were ordered by the bishop to be returned to the parish. It would seem that fairness and problem solving were never the goal--silencing an effective and conservative voice has always been the bishop's objective.
The Standing Committee's attorney, under the guise of exploring possible presentment charges against the parish rector has, VOL has learned, been harassing staff, threatening vestry members with personal suit, and pestering parishioners with phone calls at their homes and work, sending multiple certified letters demanding interviews, getting people off by themselves, putting them under some sort of ecclesial oath, and trying to extract statements that can be spun against their rector.
Under godly admonition, the assistant rector has been told to turn over his cell phone records as the investigators desperately try to catch Fr. Armstrong violating his inhibition by talking to staff, clergy or parishioners.
In the mean time, a small contingent of parish liberals have been distracting the vestry with a barrage of petty issues, even using the untimely death of the parish Sunday school director for their own disruptive purposes, the deceased's husband even speaking up at the annual parish meeting, three days after his wife's funeral, using his sympathy card to attack the rector and vestry.
And if that were not Trollopesque enough, going from bizarre to insane, the interim head of the Sunday school has just posted inappropriate remarks about Hillary Clinton's thong on a religious website.
And a deceased husband stood up at the annual parish meeting, three days after his wife's funeral, to use his sympathy card to attack the rector and vestry.
Recently, O'Neill closed two parishes in Colorado Springs, - Holy Spirit and St. Francis - Grace Church is close to being the next if the bishop does not somehow become a pastor trying to find a way forward with healing for all---a novel idea for a man whose gospel is inclusivity and reconciliation for all.
No one believes that this is anything but a witch-hunt aimed at Armstrong who as executive director of the Anglican Communion Institute, the highly effective theological think tank, has been critical of the bishop's pro-gay theology. Press coverage in Colorado has also seen this conflict as nothing more than a political attack by Colorado's opportunistic bishop trying to win favor with Episcopal leaders at the church's headquarters in New York City.
Jean Torkelson, of the Rocky Mountain News, has reported in her columns that Armstrong's supporters say the restrictions are designed to silence the priest outrage over the bishop's and National Church's breaks with traditional teachings on sexuality and scriptural authority.
"This is all about terror - the ability of the church and bishops with deep pockets to terrorize mom and pop (members) in their churches," said the Rev. David Anderson, president of the American Anglican Council (ACC), an advocacy network of traditional Episcopalians.
While the national Church has provided funds to fight breakaway parishes in other states, no money has been given to the Colorado diocese to fight Armstrong, a spokeswoman for the diocese has said.
But this leaves questions. How could a diocese with a $79,000 shortfall for 2007 afford $200,000 to hire attorneys, forensic auditors, and investigators to attack Armstrong?
To help finance Armstrong's legal fees, parishioners have started a defense fund and begun selling bumper stickers that say, "Free Father Armstrong."
Armstrong has never believed that leaving the Episcopal Church was an option, rather staying and fighting for renewal and revival. He and the ACI believe that adherence to the Windsor Report and Camp Allen Principles are the basis for the future hope of a well ordered and disciplined Communion.
But Armstrong is not the first orthodox priest to be silenced and removed from his parish on flimsy grounds; he will certainly not be the last. In the Diocese of Connecticut, the liberal Bishop Drew Smith froze the parish bank accounts and removed the personal computers of St. John's in Bristol, simultaneously ousting the church's longtime rector, the Rev. Mark Hansen. That action by Smith led to a national outcry provoking a legal counteroffensive.
"These cases are perhaps the leading cases in the world on this subject," one attorney observed.
The precedent of using the civil courts to bring revisionist bishops to justice for their persecution of orthodox priests has already been established. Despite four motions to dismiss the case (all of which he lost), Pennsylvania Bishop Charles Bennison will face a jury trial for his fraudulent persecution of Fr. David Moyer.
It is unlikely that the House of Bishops will call O'Neill's hand in his gross abuse of power; they have steadfastly refused to touch Jack Spong, (Newark), Charles Bennison (Pennsylvania) or Orris Walker (Long Island). Their history is one of sitting silently by as TEC implements its program of ecclesial cleansing.
Armstrong's future is uncertain. The fight is shaping up into a battle of the mega-lawyers, as Torkelson observed. What the courts will do with a sensitive church/state issue remains to be seen.
In a note of irony, the liberal rector at Good Shepherd in North Colorado Springs recently announced that he is returning to California leaving his new start up congregation with only 40 worshippers on a Sunday, while a nearby AMiA new start parish is attracting 160!
In the meantime, all powerful revisionist bishops have the authority and backing of the national church to go after defenseless parish priests on virtually any sort of trumped up charge (one Grace parishioner complained to Bishop O'Neill), and a reign of terror can begin that has the potential to ruin not only a godly rector, but leave parishioners disillusioned and fleeing. In the end everyone loses.
END
| Poster | Thread |
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| daveball | Posted: 2007/3/16 21:39 Updated: 2007/3/16 21:39 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/12/18 From: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2377 |
Ah, sweet inclusivity, reconcilliation and compassion, Rob O'Neill be they name.
It is really hard to understand what this man hopes to gain other than just pure plain vengence against someone who dared speak up for the Gospel. And we all know to whom vengence belongs. Spending $200,000 in a diocese that has a sever fund shortage, not even telling the vestry (or possibly the good Rector) exactly what it is he is accused of, actively seeking something to accuse him of long after the action started, inhibiting the Rector and vestry in such a way as to preclude any defense. More unbelievable TECism. I know the Bible says Christians should not sue but this stuff has to stop somewhere. Is it possible to sue the Bishop to put the cards on the table and, lacking any real cause for what he has done, sue the daylights out of both him and the diocese for damages? Just a thought. |
| Angus | Posted: 2007/3/16 21:39 Updated: 2007/3/16 21:39 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/5 From: Posts: 5 |
It never occured to me that a Bishop of TEC would rather destroy a vibrant Church than to see it differ with his theological position. Having seen what is happening to Grace Church up close, I can now say that Bishop O'Neil is the devil incarnate! He is in the process of destroying, and I mean utterly destroying this parish. How someone can be so evil, and at the same time claim to be a Bishop, a Christian, or even a decent human is beyond me.
Is there no restraint on the Bishop's power to be Satin? Is there nobody anywhere in TEC that sees what is happening, or don't they care? Where is the justice?? Is there nothing that can be done to stop this madness?? Where are the Good Christians of Grace Church, why haven't they risen up and confronted the Bishop? And I mean confronted!! If need be at every event in which he participates. Evil needs to be confronted. Attend every parish where he is and question him during the services, question his motives, question his theology, question his ethics, question his Christianity (if he still is one!) If something is not done quickly, everyone at Grace is LOST! Satin has won. DOESN'T ANYONE CARE!!! Angus |
| Howell | Posted: 2007/3/16 22:30 Updated: 2007/3/16 22:30 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/13 From: Colorado Posts: 444 |
The Fr. Armstrong witchhunt is only the latest in the sad decline and corruption of the Episcopal church in Colorado. The Cathedral in Denver changed Deans several years with disasterous results. The previous Dean had truly run an "all-inclusive" parish, where both gays and orthodox were equally respected. The present Dean who is Rev. Political Correctness par exellence, destroyed all that and is openly hostile to conservative parishoners; there's been a huge turnover of members in the past several years and Sunday attendance is way down; the choir, which used to be one of Denver's jewels is now a shadow of its former self; certain members of the vestry know they have a "destroyer" in the current Dean but the Dean is dictator; pledges are way down. In fact Fr. Armstrong's church became larger in membership, annual budget and pledges than the Cathedral and that might be a contributing factor to O"Neill's hatred for Armstrong and his parish. I have seen O'Neill perform on numerous occasions and he is inept. However unless Fr. Armstrong's flock, 90% of whom are supporters of his and The True Faith, go back at the Bishop and the Diocese with all barrels blazing, I'm afraid this once beautiful parish/Christian School, which still uses the 1928 BCP much to the delight of its members and guests, many of whom travel long distances to attend a 1928 BCP Mass, will be torn asunder. Pray, pray for Fr. Armstrong and his flock
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| Kelpie | Posted: 2007/3/16 22:44 Updated: 2007/3/16 22:44 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/7/5 From: Scotland Posts: 259 |
"And a deceased husband stood up at the annual parish meeting, three days after his wife's funeral, to use his sympathy card to attack the rector and vestry."
REALLY??? Don't you mean "widowed" or "bereaved" husband??? Or is the Bishop of Colorado employing ZOMBIES to do his dirty work??? Is there no depth to which he will not sink??? |
| unitarian | Posted: 2007/3/17 0:09 Updated: 2007/3/17 0:09 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/12/31 From: Bryn Mawr, PA Posts: 307 |
Can someone please explain what the charges are? And what is the evidence?
Boston Unitarian |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/3/17 0:55 Updated: 2007/3/17 0:55 |
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Dear Boston Unitarian:
Until the Bp. O'Neill explains the charges or allows Father Armstrong to explain them (he's prohibited from communicating with the parish), they will just remain unexplained. The charges "misapplication of funds" could mean almost anything, including as I have opined before, that Bp. O'Neill is angry about the parish sending funds he claims for himself to Tanzania. Until truth comes from the Diocese, we are stuck with speculation. The secrecy surrounding this situation and the requests for phone records are extremely bizarre, and tend to lead Grace & St. Stephen's parishioners to believe Bp. O'Neill is behaving like a paranoid dictator. Some parishioners are convinced the bishop is simply picking off the orthodox clergy one by one so he can replace them with Spong clones. Then he can replace the vestry with Louie Crew clones. Then he can pick off the school leadership and start handing out condoms and "Heather Has Two Mommies" to the kids. That is my perception, and it is shared by others. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/3/17 0:59 Updated: 2007/3/17 0:59 |
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Dear Howell:
We do indeed need prayer coverage! This is a desperate battle on the order of Thermopylae or Bastogne. Bp. O'Neill cannot be simply allowed to destroy this parish. |
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| ZachD | Posted: 2007/3/17 8:03 Updated: 2007/3/17 8:03 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/11/10 From: Posts: 1791 |
Shocking! This reads like quite the freak show!
Who on earth would give such a bishop such power to harrass and destroy? Why be holed up and cloistered to this degree? To be subjected to this kind of lunacy?! "Take a hike, freak!," comes to mind. That this has been tolerated in a freedom loving land is simply beyond me. There is something going on here that I simply do not understand. Can somebody help me out? - stunnedZach |
| Leonard | Posted: 2007/3/17 8:15 Updated: 2007/3/17 8:15 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/11/2 From: Denver Posts: 141 |
Let God arise and His enemies be scattered......
"I would that they were even cut off who trouble you. " |
| 54growth | Posted: 2007/3/17 12:52 Updated: 2007/3/17 12:52 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/7/4 From: Midwest Posts: 2 |
1. Check out federal statutes on extortion.
2. Check out RICO statutes. |
| Zechariah | Posted: 2007/3/17 13:22 Updated: 2007/3/17 13:22 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/23 From: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 40 |
Curtis,
You have just proven that the liberal agenda is to remove conservatism in our church after all. If Colorado Springs spews so much hate and dissension, how come Grace Church is the largest church in the diocese? I'll give you the answer: it is a bedrock of truth and orthodoxy. Soldier of Christ, Zechariah |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/3/17 14:28 Updated: 2007/3/17 14:28 |
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Curtis:
I have never once heard Father Armstrong "spew hate and dissension". He has, to my knowledge, never vilified homosexuals. He has always pointed to the Way, the Truth, and the Life as the solution to all disordered lives. Bp. O'Neill cannot point to God in any other way than mocking because he is a heretic. Go ahead and throw your money at St. John's in Denver -- if you think it wise to fund the cause of wolves in sheeps' clothing who will eat the flock, and the cause of false teachers who will teach the children to sin. Ah, but the New Religion doesn't believe in Sin, or Christ ... you will be purchasing your own millstone for your neck. |
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| leader1111 | Posted: 2007/3/17 14:33 Updated: 2007/3/17 14:33 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/19 From: Hobe Sound, Florida Posts: 237 |
Like Fr. Moyer I would sue the Bp. in the civil courts for every diocesan penny. They certainly have an excellent case. Fr. Armstrong needs to remove his parish from TEC.
From a practical standpoint why would anyone in their right mind want to stay in TEC. It truly defies logic. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/3/17 14:41 Updated: 2007/3/17 14:42 |
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This sounds like religious persecution. Period.
And once again, I wonder: why have bishops at all? |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/3/17 14:41 Updated: 2007/3/17 14:41 |
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Dear ZachD:
I think what we are seeing here is the smiley face mask coming off the Devil Incarnate. Before Rob O'Neill was elected, all the candidates answered a series of questions about different positions, including homosexual issues, in a Diocesan publication that was sent to every parish. As I recall, Fr. Radner gave the only orthodox responses, and the others were openly liberal, except for O'Neill's, which were pointedly wishy-washy. Given the typical Episcopalian's go-along to get-along attitude, it doesn't surprise me that O'Neill's "nuanced" verbiage got him elected. Now the fools who voted for O'Neill, thinking he was the compromise solution, are getting what they asked for, a wolf in sheep's clothing, a false teacher, a heretic, a dictator, an Anti-Bishop. I could tell by reading his garbage that he would be a disaster if elected and I prayed for Father Radner's election, but it did not come to pass. O'Neill charmed a lot of people. My wife and I saw through him and so did others, but not enough did to prevent him being elected. Bagzilla |
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| dturk | Posted: 2007/3/17 14:58 Updated: 2007/3/17 14:58 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Posts: 416 |
I've got two words for Bishop O'Neill -- Charles Bennison Because of using these same gestapo-like tactics with one of his priests, Fr. Dave Moyer, Bennison and his diocese are now being sued, by Moyer, for millions and will probably lose.
Does the Diocese of Colorado think they can handle the legal price tag? |
| nu2me | Posted: 2007/3/17 15:20 Updated: 2007/3/17 15:20 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/2/1 From: Posts: 2 |
Since this is my first posting, I'd like to start out by saying my family are members of Grace, we are supporters of Father Armstrong, we miss him terribly since his inhibition.
I have a couple of questions for the experts. How easy would it be for another dioceses, perhaps a foreign diocese, to come in and take Grace Church under it's wing? Also, what benefit does the bishop gain in destroying Grace to the point to where she files bankruptchy and closes her doors? Thirdly, where does the money to run the diocese come from? (Is it from the parish contributions from all over the state? Is that why so much negative press is about the restrictions that we members placed on our pledges?) If that's the case--isn't this the biggest example of the tail wagging the dog? My last question. Is it possible that Bp. O'Neill's money to fight Fr. Armstrong is coming from places like Integrity? Thank you! |
| daveball | Posted: 2007/3/17 16:28 Updated: 2007/3/17 16:28 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/12/18 From: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2377 |
Maybe we should take it easy on poor Curtis. He is most likely just another mindless liberal spewing out, verbatim, the propoganda faxed out from Integrity or some such group without taking the time to understand the real issues.
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| leader1111 | Posted: 2007/3/17 17:49 Updated: 2007/3/17 17:52 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/19 From: Hobe Sound, Florida Posts: 237 |
The headlines make me morally and physically sick.
Throughout history people who claimed to be Christian, or who had no connection to Christianity whatsoever have done disgusting and evil things. In the last 50 years, more then ever, we Christians have been lambasted with the accusations of what “Christians” have wrongly done in the name of Christ. It is easy to understand why the majority of non-practicing nominal Christian or non-Christians today, having read of the daily hypocrisy, evil and injustice perpetrated by TEC (and by association by other perceived Christians) wonder why they should ever set foot in a church. All the good done by Christians is overshadowed by those who aren’t even Christians. Christ, and the spreading of the gospel, are the ultimate losers in this no win situation. We are decades late, but this above all, is why we cannot, and must not, allow TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada to remain in the Anglican Communion. In the last week, the Anglican Church of Canada (ACC) has clearly told the Anglican Communion to go to hell as they fully support TEC in their sexual agenda. They both must be TOTALLY EXPELLED. They must not be allowed to identify themselves with us as associated, or as full members any more. The cancer must be fully excised. The persecution of Fr. Moyer, and now Fr. Anderson, are just two very small examples of untold and unknown priests that have been persecuted and martyred since 1976. I personally know of about 40 that have been persecuted over these thirty years. Nearly all have been driven from the church. The shame, the moral bankruptcy, the evil is unbearable to me. We must not sit there and take it as we have done for 30 years. We need to fight back. We need to be solid in our convictions. We must return to our roots of the pre 1970’s. This can not be more apparent then it is now. The great Councils of the two Millennium must not be swamped by the clearly evil persecutions of these non believers. Pray every day that any remaining traditionalists in these heretical revisionist churches that want to continue in the faith once received have the common sense, the moral conviction, and the initiative to do what must be done. Do not bow to the persecution. Fight . Fight for Christ. |
| Howell | Posted: 2007/3/17 18:45 Updated: 2007/3/17 18:45 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/13 From: Colorado Posts: 444 |
Leader 1111 is absolutely correct. The silence of the Episcopalian majority since 1976 has reaped the present whirlwind of apostasy. The orthodox must rise up and defeat TEC and Canada and New Zealand. This must be done with a vigor, no holds barred effort. Christ, when He threw the moneychangers from the Temple, was not subtle, was not gentle. TEC has turned into a monster that is devouring dedicated clergy and congregations right and left. It is time for a full-court rebellion of energy, time and financial contribution.
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| Zechariah | Posted: 2007/3/17 20:28 Updated: 2007/3/17 20:28 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/23 From: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 40 |
Daveball,
I concur. I'm done debating Curtis and his nonsensical sputterings. Zechariah |
| ZachD | Posted: 2007/3/17 22:01 Updated: 2007/3/17 22:01 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/11/10 From: Posts: 1791 |
Well, after only 5 posts, it did not take long to 'dispense' with Curtis. Once it was clearly seen that an informed and intelligent dialogue or even a reasoned debate was quite impossible, there is no need to engage him at all.
Better to leave him to contemplate his weekend entertainments, and to worship "gentle Jesus meek and mild" on Sunday. |
| ZachD | Posted: 2007/3/17 22:07 Updated: 2007/3/17 22:24 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/11/10 From: Posts: 1791 |
"I think what we are seeing here is the smiley face mask coming off the Devil Incarnate. Before Rob O'Neill was elected, all the candidates answered a series of questions about different positions, including homosexual issues, in a Diocesan publication that was sent to every parish. As I recall, Fr. Radner gave the only orthodox responses, and the others were openly liberal, except for O'Neill's, which were pointedly wishy-washy."
____________________________________ Well Bagzilla, As far as "Devil Incarnate" goes, you will have to get in line! I have several of my own in my neck of the woods, and have posted of them anonymously here for about a year now! But I am in MichaelInghamLand as well! Leader1's, Well, I am squarely with you, and am reminded of a comment 'Mark' made recently about staying to fight and not flee. I am sickened to heart and bone as well. But many have fled with clear conscience and have taken the balance of power with them. They are not wrong for departing, however. What is at issue for me, is, when do we stay for 'sonship' and inheritance issues (toss the destroyers out - a position abdicated by leadership failure over decades), or to leave with "Iccabod" hanging over the door, and linking with Christ elsewhere. This is a real dilemma. I find I vacillate between these poles, but am more recently looking for a way out. Doing the right and godly decision will be a matter of research, reflection, time, and prayer. I would beg God's help in this. |
| FrankV | Posted: 2007/3/17 22:23 Updated: 2007/3/17 22:23 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/5 From: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 302 |
It is obvious to me that Curtis has never cracked open a Bible and read scripture which provides direction to moral and ethical reasoning. It is this type of epithet hurling individual who undermines and fractures both new and old to the Faith. What a pity. I pray that the Holy Spirit will descend on Curtis and crack through his perverse armor of dissension. He hurls the charge of Christ and scriptural loving Christians as being "haters", when he himself displays every evidence of that afflistion.
I recently wrote an email in answer to a local parishioner who was pleading for some more forceful action in support of Fr. Armstrong. It is as follows: XXXXXXX: I agree with you 100%. A major expression of outrage is long past due and I can't understand why the congregation has not taken more positive and forceful action. It is as if we are all standing by, sucking our thumbs, waiting to see what will happen next. I doubt that Bishop(?) O'Neill will make himself available for a direct confrontation; however, I believe a demonstration/march with placards etc is in order. The Press should be invited and brochures should be available to handout to anyone interested. It is past time to bail out of the ECUSA. The church is falling apart at the seams. With the likes of the Apostate presiding bishop and her ilk leading the destruction, I don't see much hope of resolution. Do we want to dance and romance with the anti-Christ? Although material considerations should not enter into a Christian decision, a major issue will be who owns the church property. The average parishioner is going to put that uppermost in their mind. We do have quite a personal and financial investment here. But, again, we shouldn't dance with the Devil. I am all for bailing out of the ECUSA and placing ourselves under the oversight of a compatible Christian, Anglican Archbishop. I would think that a prime candidate would reside in Tanzania. The Tanzanian House of Bishops has already in February expressed their distaste for the Liberals of ECUSA. In view of our affiliation with Bishop Alpha through MosTrust, I would be delighted to see the Tanzanian Archbishop and Bishops elevate Don to the Bishop of Colorado, Anglican Communion, and have Don march back into the Church property and proceed with business as usual. Wouldn't that curl O'Neill's hair? In any case, I pray for O'Neill's conversion to Christianity and his repentance for an eggregious crime, for the congregation to get off their a-- and do something substantial in support of Don (money, demonstrations, etc), and for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in all the above. Yours in Christ, FrankV |
| jane4re | Posted: 2007/3/18 0:32 Updated: 2007/3/18 0:32 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/12/10 From: Posts: 25 |
Bagzilla wrote: Before Rob O'Neill was elected, all the candidates answered a series of questions about different positions, including homosexual issues, in a Diocesan publication that was sent to every parish. As I recall, Fr. Radner gave the only orthodox responses, and the others were openly liberal, except for O'Neill's, which were pointedly wishy-washy.
We were living in VA at the time attending one of the churches that voted to leave TEC in December. We happened to be visiting a Denver church that showed the video interviews of the candidates for bishop. I remember O'Neill saying on the tape that he would support same sex union blessings. He was the only candidate that came out on that side of the question in the interviews. |
| Howell | Posted: 2007/3/18 0:32 Updated: 2007/3/18 0:32 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/13 From: Colorado Posts: 444 |
Someone at Grace & St. Stephens must have already looked into the matter of who owns the property there. What have they determined? I attend Mass there periodically and it is a physically beautiful parish as well as beautiful in spirit. I can see where it would be heartbreaking to have to vacate such an inspiring place of worship. Does anyone there know what the options are regarding the property?
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| FrankV | Posted: 2007/3/18 1:47 Updated: 2007/3/18 1:47 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/5 From: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 302 |
Howell:
So far, I haven't found anyone who can give me a definitive answer to the question. Even the Vestry has not addressed it in public. This is what drives me crazy, the neverending secrecy on all sides; although, I will say that, in general, the Vestry has been far more forthcoming than the -Bishop. The -Bishop has treated them like Mushrooms also (keep them in the dark and feed them B.S.). You know, this whole thing is so surreal it reminds me of the Dilbert cartoon; just substitute some of the principals for the characters in Dilbert and you will have it. Bishop O'Neill is the pointy haired Manager; Don is Dilbert; the pointy haired manager's secretary is the Diocese spokesperson; Wally represents many of our parishioners sitting on their wallets and nursing their coffee cup; Catbert is a Diocesan henchman born of the Devil; Alice represents some of our female dissenters etc. Where is Jesus and Justice in this picture? Blessings FrankV |
| nu2me | Posted: 2007/3/18 1:50 Updated: 2007/3/18 1:50 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/2/1 From: Posts: 2 |
FrankV,
Beatifully written. I agree, so, how do we get it started? |
| jane4re | Posted: 2007/3/18 5:23 Updated: 2007/3/18 5:23 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/12/10 From: Posts: 25 |
I looked up Grace Church in the tax records for El Paso County, Colorado (Colorado Springs' county) and the tax records show the owner as Grace Church! The congregation was actually founded by the founder of Colorado Springs, Gen. PAlmer, whose wife was Episcopalian (very Anglican actually).
I only found one church and a cemetary in El Paso County owned by the Bishop and Diocese of Colorado. The church is St Francis that closed its doors in October since most of the members had started attending an AMiA church and the remnant was too tired of the fight to start an new church. Even Holy Spirit that closed its doors in Sept was not listed as being owned by the diocese. Interesting. |
| ZachD | Posted: 2007/3/18 10:06 Updated: 2007/3/18 10:08 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/11/10 From: Posts: 1791 |
FrankV and nu2me:
FINALLY, some spark of life! Very good to see! Laity MUST take advantage of their 'untouchable' position, for it will not last forever. Do the laity not know of the ENVIABLE position that they are in? Being FREE of the power and authority of harrassing bishops?! The Clergy need you to FIGHT for them. Ironically, they need your COVER. Start like this: Use the PM feature in the left hand menu marked INBOX to send private messages to like-minded parties. I have done this, and have shared email addresses with a few people over time. Conduct your work quietly among yourselves, and God bless you! |
| gregory | Posted: 2007/3/18 10:20 Updated: 2007/3/18 10:20 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
ZachD,
"The Clergy need you to FIGHT for them. Ironically, they need your COVER." Agree!!! "Conduct your work quietly among yourselves" Well yes and ... no to quietly. First yes work among ourselves Then hopefully with the full armour of Christ on Stand and let the Light shine, right out there in the open or on the house top... it works ... i know, gregory |
| ZachD | Posted: 2007/3/18 12:49 Updated: 2007/3/18 12:49 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/11/10 From: Posts: 1791 |
As you know, God fearing gregory,
I seek after a firm footing and a sure foundation, only. Then, its "Let your light shine in the darkness, so that (men) will see your good works, and glorify your Father in heaven." God bless the noble ventures! Be listening, though, for what God is actually calling us to do, rather than for what we feel determined to do for Him. Very much love, |
| btaylor | Posted: 2007/3/18 12:51 Updated: 2007/3/18 12:51 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/26 From: California Posts: 65 |
Nu2me,
1. Another Province of the Anglican Communion will not take the initiative to take Grace Church under its wing. If the rector and the vestry ask for intervention and protection from one of several orthodox Primates it will happen faster than a minnow can swim a dipper. No other diocese within TEC can provide such oversight and protection. The canons and constitution of TEC prohibit crossing diocesan boundaries. The offending Bishop could, and would be, brought up on a Letter of Presentment for such a violation. 2. The Bishop is not consciously trying to destroy the parish. He just wants to shut up all clear voices of the Gospel. Most Bishops mistakenly believe that all priests and preachers are pretty much equal. That is because they either are really poor preachers themselves, or because they believe that they are such great preachers that all others pale in comparison. The Bishop believes that parishioners really are sheep and will follow whoever is rector. He just wants canonical grounds to silence and depose the rector. He wants the money of Grace Church. He doesn’t want to share the money with Tanzania or any other foreign ministries. 3. The money to run the diocese comes from two sources. Most of the money comes from the diocesan assessment on each individual parish and mission. Most dioceses have some money coming in from endowments, trust funds, and investments. What most Bishops also fail to understand is that only evangelicals, catholics, and charismatics actually tithe. Those who reject the authority of scripture would see no reason to abide such obvious oppressive colonial patronage. The Bishop believes that the people of Grace Church will continue to give just as much money when he replaces the rector with someone who also rejects the authority of scripture. 4. Yes, the Bishop is undoubtedly getting money to press this case from someone or some organization with deep pockets. The Diocese is already dipping into reserves and trimming projects to make budget. TEC is doing the same. Integrity is a good guess. Most of us grow up with the notion that Bishops are very smart, very holy people. It is often true in countries or Provinces in which Bishops are elected by the House of Bishops or appointed by the Archbishop. It is rarely true in TEC. Think about how bishops are elected. They come from the ranks of cardinal rectors, cathedral deans, and canons to the Ordinary. Generally they are men, or women, who have a big smile, and firm handshake, a chuck on the shoulder and a hearty, “God bless you.” They preach short sermons that give us some bit of new, interesting information and tell us that God loves us and that we are all brothers and sisters on the celestial path. They make us feel good about ourselves and the status quo. They rarely challenge us except in October during the annual pledge drive. The Bishop of Colorado has come up against every Bishop’s nightmare: a man of God who can’t be bought off or scared off. The Bishop wants two things, to silence the voice of the priest and to get the money. It is pretty simple really. The MDG’s plan to cure world poverty, but they will not address the real problem. The real problem is not poverty; it is good, old-fashioned greed. When looking for root causes, always follow the money trail. Most Bishops in TEC are neither very smart nor very holy. O’Neill fits the mold pretty well. |
| Angus | Posted: 2007/3/18 15:01 Updated: 2007/3/18 15:01 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/5 From: Posts: 5 |
For the good people of Grace and St. Stephens - you need to ACT NOW!! If you allow (Bishop) O'Neil to dictate to you the future of your Church - then you will get what you deserve! It may not happen overnight, but your church and its ministry will go the way of TEC - declining membership and preaching the TEC Universalist doctrine of "Anything That Feels Good Goes".
I call on the Senior Warder and the Vestry to stand up and confront O'Neil. And do this openly and quickly. Shake the dust off your boots of those that do not support you. Let them go - it is better to cut off the cancer than to let it infect the whole body. As I see it, you have two choices: Stay within the corrupt diocese and fight - this will be tanamount to suicide. O'Neil has all the cards, and total (I MEAN TOTAL) control over your clergy. The second is to move to leave the diocess amd join CANA. This is a place you can flourish - and continue to speak the Word and follow Christ in your mission to bring people to our Lord. Seems that the way forward is pretty simple. Now let's see if you have the will to follow through. It won't be essy, but following Christ is never easy - but in the end you will be richly rewarded - both here and in the afterlife. GOD SPEED, GOOD PEOPLE OF GRACE AND ST STEPHENS - OUR PRAYERS (and dollars) are with you. Angus (I am so mad, if O'Neil came around I think I would take a chunk right out of his behind!) |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/3/18 15:17 Updated: 2007/3/18 15:17 |
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Any time there is an infiltration of the power structure of any organization, be it the local ladies' club or a government, there is always organized financial backing. Always.
The great strength in most left-wing type efforts is that left-wingers tend to be much more single-issue oriented than most conservatives. That is, while conservatives are assessing many facets of their environments, left-wingers focus, often radically, on only one or two. Don't be confused, however; focus on one issue does not preclude multiple tactics being employed toward that end. With such single-issue devotion, and the funding it encourages, hand-picked candidates can be successfully supported and installed into key leadership positions. Someone mentioned "Integrity". If I'm not mistaken, they are an organization within TEC. I might suggest that organizations outside TEC also be considered as well. It is a known infiltration technique to set up a faction within the target organization (or government or whatever) to establish inside support for the cause. In the case of TEC, such a tactic would be a valuable addition to any other tactics employed. Funding from outside the target organization is, it might be opined, much much more difficult to detect. |
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| Howell | Posted: 2007/3/18 17:55 Updated: 2007/3/18 17:55 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/13 From: Colorado Posts: 444 |
FrankV
Though not a member of Grace & St. Stephens, I just put a check in the mail to Fr. Armstrong's Legal Defense Fund. I included a note that exhorted the Vestry to rise up and fight this matter with all the tenaciousness and boldness of Christ throwing out the money changers. It is encouraging to hear above that the County Records indicate Grace as the owner of its property, however surely this will be contested by O'Neill and his cronies. It looks like some momentum is building at the moment; perhaps O'Neill has awakened "a sleeping giant" with his Tora, Tora, Tora Pearl Harbor style of Christian love and oversight. I'd like to see every person who visits this blog site post a message of encouragement to the Vestry and members of Grace Church. If everyone were to send even $25 to Grace, what an impact that would have!!! And if I were the Vestry, I'd implore every Grace member in support of Fr. Armstrong, if they don't tithe normally, to tithe JUST THIS ONCE. Again, the financial impact would be very substantial. Don't loose the momentum; how many times in our lives do we REALLY get to witness for the Lord? |
| FrankV | Posted: 2007/3/19 1:23 Updated: 2007/3/19 1:23 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/1/5 From: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 302 |
jane4re:
Bless you for your research effort. What great news. Now we need to find out if the -Rev.O'Neill has forced any prior vestry or clergy to sign a quit-claim deed to the diocese. ZachD: I've followed your posts for some time and God Bless you too. I would just like to get email addresses for the Vestry! They need encouragement and suggestions I'm sure. Gregory: I am of like mind. Nu2me: It's long past time to change allegiance to CANA or similar. I need to know more about the several "Anglican Orthodox" communions competing with each other. Angus: Amen! Howell: Bless you for your contribution. We need more like you for sure. For those who also wish to contribute to Fr. Armstrong's defense fund: Grace Church & St. Stephens 601 N. Tejon Colorado Springs, CO 80903 and mark check "Legal Defense Fund" |
| warmac9999 | Posted: 2007/3/20 11:31 Updated: 2007/3/20 11:36 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
(1) No one is holding you hostage unless you value the building more than Christianity. Ask David to put you in touch with Bishop Akinola and then follow-up. You will probably have to leave Grace church's buildings and property for the time being and meet in a school gym, but over the years you will be able to build a vibrant and successful congregation with an orthodox focus. If you do not make some move, face the fact that you will not be able to win over the liberal revisionists, and you will constantly be bombarded with bigoted hate speech if you try. I don't know about you, but I go to church for a positive experience and to re-inforce my Christian beliefs. I don't want a bunch of sermons or left-wing laity telling me how mean I am for believing in Jesus, the Bible, and the traditional history of Christianity.
(2) The bishop of Colorado is looking to intimidate the 50% or 60% of Episcopalian who love their church building more than their Christianity. If he can drive out orthodox resisters, and keep this middle confused, then he can win with the 70% or 80% of the people who stay. Over time, of course, he is hoping that more people will show up and the orthodox will just fade away. If you can take people from him, and keep them Christian, you win both now and over time. (3) All of these now revisionist diocese can keep running on endowments and a reduced budget. However, the cost of lawsuits and the loss of membership will continue to reduce their resources - and that is most important to the real future of orthodox Anglicanism. Oh, by the way, the GLAAD organizations, regardless of name, are more than willing to fund TEC. The problem is that the church exists for its members not for its money. Eventually, you end up with one billionaire who never attends, and no congregation. Imagine giving a sermon to no one. Not very rewarding. |
| Dominic | Posted: 2007/4/2 9:56 Updated: 2007/4/2 9:56 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/7/10 From: London Posts: 285 |
We are told that this poor minister is prevented from speaking with 'parishioners and staff' - people in other words. What right has anyone (Bishop or not) to tell someone else that they may not talk with other people? Has the US passed some new law decreeing that people are to be denied the right of free assocation? Why have the secular authorities not acted to prevent this appalling abuse of human rights?
I was threatened in exactly this way by Bishop Powell of the FCE here in England - he told me I could not speak with people who had asked to speak with me - I just ignored his illegal demand. |























