Exclusives : DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WINDSOR REPORT PARSED
DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WINDSOR REPORT PARSED
Primates did not celebrate Eucharist together
News Analysis
By David W. Virtue in Dar es Salaam
www.virtueonline.org
2/15/2007
The 35 Primates of the Anglican Communion agreed today that the American Episcopal Church had not lived totally up to the demands of the Windsor Report, but gave the TEC a pass saying that its actions were "sufficient" and "adequate in its own terms". The Primates refused any formal censure of the Episcopal Church. There was no public reprimand of the TEC in its continued leftward swing on faith and morals and there was no talk of schism in the meeting at all.
The dominant attitude was one of "gratitude" for the "substantially positive response of The Episcopal Church, to the Windsor Report," said Australian Archbishop Phillip Aspinall at a press briefing, and the Primates spent time discerning the best way the Windsor Report might be fully implemented throughout the communion, leading one commentator to observe that we are back in Frank Griswold's "circle dance" where togetherness is the bottom line.
The primates concluded that while the TEC did not use the precise language of the Windsor Report the group concluded that its responses were "adequate in its own terms."
On the moratorium for rites of blessing for same sex unions, the Primates said they were not so clear or satisfied with the response given by the TEC. "The group was not convinced by the rationale or the actions of General Convention - the disparity between the position outlined by the former Presiding Bishop and what is happening pastorally on the ground where the blessings continued - calling it a "lack of clarity" and "not full satisfaction."
On the issue of "expressing regret" for straining or breaching the bonds of affection (the Windsor Report never called for repentance though many provinces have called on the TEC to do so) the Primates concluded that while General Convention did not use that precise language, they nonetheless concluded that the TEC position was "sufficient" to meet the requests of the Primates.
"Work has to be done in The Episcopal Church itself, so it is best to assist the TEC to implant the thrust of the Windsor Report," said Aspinall.
The Primates did not celebrate the Eucharist together but they did participate in an act of corporate penitence (Penitential Litany) using the Great Litany of Common Prayer led by Dr. Rowan Williams and his chaplain. Eucharist is scheduled every day, said Aspinall.
"It was a day of intense listening characterized by graciousness, patience, care and respect," said Aspinall. "The Archbishop of Canterbury also welcomed 13 new primates," he said.
The Primates also welcomed three guests from The Episcopal Church; Bishop Robert Duncan (Network moderator); Bishop Bruce MacPherson (Western Louisiana); Christopher Epting the Presiding Bishop's Deputy for Ecumenical relationships. They, along with the Presiding Bishop made a presentation of the current situation and concerns about those holding minority views in the TEC. (See my earlier story on this here: http://tinyurl.com/2dqphl )
Also present at today's press conference was Southeast Asian Primate John Chew. He echoed the hope that the presenters to the primates would be able to find a space for healing and reconciliation in The Episcopal Church. (His two predecessors, Apb's Yong Ping Chung and Moses Tay were both actively involved in intervention in the life of the TEC rescuing fleeing parishes and in forming the Anglican Mission in America.) "The covenant proposal will provide a vehicle for healing," he said.
Following a question by VOL over the much-debated issue of whether both archbishops' Jefferts Schori and John Sentamu (York) would be seated, Aspinall said all the Primates were seated together and were all present for the duration of the day's meeting, "and there was no dispute about it."
On the subject of boundary crossing, Aspinall said there was discussion on unwanted and uninvited interventions of archbishops of other parts of the Anglican Communion and also the inhibitions the TEC was doing that caused it.
Aspinall said that tomorrow the Primates would pursue the conversation of today and look at specific proposals and responses by the Primates to the Episcopal Church. He said that Archbishop Peter Carnley, chairman of the Panel of Reference will report to the Primates and that they would consider it.
END
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| Poster | Thread |
|---|---|
| lionheart | Posted: 2007/2/15 17:22 Updated: 2007/2/15 17:22 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2005/10/19 From: Posts: 354 |
 Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WINNot exactly inspiring. Hope it gets better.
lh |
| Romans828 | Posted: 2007/2/15 17:29 Updated: 2007/2/15 17:29 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/6/27 From: Posts: 244 |
Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIN This sure sounds like a disaster, so far. Of course, the news is apparently all coming from the liberal Primate Aspinall. Who knows how much he's spinning the facts.
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| etagert | Posted: 2007/2/15 17:31 Updated: 2007/2/15 17:31 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2006/5/4 From: Posts: 131 |
Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIN Glad I got off when I did. For all you still out there reading this and wondering what is next... ABANDON SHIP! There's no better time than the present.
As Archbishop Akinola has said - Lambeth isn't going to get you to heaven. Only Christ will. This bunch of luminaries has opted for the Archbishop of Canterbury instead of Christ! |
| daveball | Posted: 2007/2/15 17:33 Updated: 2007/2/15 17:35 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/12/18 From: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2281 |
Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIN BLINK ?????????
This group of apparently faith challenged pompous hypocrits completely caved in. Yeah, I know there's more convention and yeah, I know this is all coming from Aspinall but the opportunity to act decisively has passed with not so much as a murmer. Disgusting. |
| Romans828 | Posted: 2007/2/15 17:37 Updated: 2007/2/15 17:37 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/6/27 From: Posts: 244 |
Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIN No, this is not a cave-in by the Orthodox. But it does look like Akinola may have some votes in doubt, considering that there are 14 new primates out of 35 in attendance.
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| lionheart | Posted: 2007/2/15 17:40 Updated: 2007/2/15 17:40 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/19 From: Posts: 354 |
Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIN This really isn't the trial of Schori but rather the trial of ++Akinola et al. The days of this conference should be decision time for all of you still remaining in the Anglican Communion, not just TEC.
lh |
| etagert | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:00 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:00 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2006/5/4 From: Posts: 131 |
Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIN UTurn - Please read the Bible. What does it say about how Christians are to treat heretics within the Church? Why would being a "good Christian," as you put it, not involve emulating both Christ and the Apostolic Church in their rejection of hypocritic and heretical teachers? Did Christ act like a "good Christian" when clearing the temple?
FYI - If the Orthodox take the Heterodox serious, and point out their false teachings, why is that disrespectful? It seems to me that this is respectful. Do the Heterodox not take themselves seriosly? Do they not take the Orthodox seriously? Is that "being respectful"? |
| Romans828 | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:04 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:06 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/6/27 From: Posts: 244 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND BTW, other websites are reporting the day's events in far more tentative terms. The consensus report seems to be that today was dedicated to worship, process, receiving the report, listening to the four American bishops, and collegiality, and that necessarily no action was taken today. Action is to begin tomorrow.
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| FrSam+ | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:08 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:08 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/15 From: Posts: 555 |
Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIN "The primates refused any formal censure of TEC."
"...TEC's substantially positive response to the Windsor Report." "...Schori and Sentamu were seated....it was never in dispute..." "...it's best to assist TEC to implant the thrust of the Windsor Report..." I'm still going to hold on to my "told you so", but it looks like the writing is on the wall. Schori will return from this as the total victor. Flee TEC now. There is no salvation for you in the works in Tanzania. |
| Isaac | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:13 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:16 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/3/1 From: Texas Posts: 595 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND So what, exactly, was it that TEC did that was "sufficient" and "adequate in its own terms"(whatever that means) in regards to the Windsor Report?
"Substantially positive response"??? Is he serious? One has to wonder if the Holy Spirit got lost on the way to Dar es Salaam. Isaac |
| Greidinger | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:21 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:21 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2004/1/10 From: Posts: 32 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND HOLD IT FOLKS..... The "Primates" have NOT voted, or even discussed this "report".. In fact, according to many, the report is a "draft". It was written last Fall, and kept under wraps until this morning, when it was first shown to the primates.
Lets not jump too far ahead, I admit it looks bad, but now is not quite the time for knicker-twisting. Grandmother  |
| FrSam+ | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:21 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/15 From: Posts: 555 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Isaac,
He is as serious as a train wreck. What of all of the predictions that we heard on VOL of a definite statement from the primates that "TEC had clearly not responded" to the Windsor Report??? Sounds to me like the primates think that TEC's response was acceptable, though just not quite clearly as they would like to have heard. The house of cards that was to be the "rebuke of TEC" has begun to fall. Yep, they are serious indeed. TEC will emerge from Tanzania in the same condition she came, without even so much as a black eye or bloodied nose. New York is already setting the table for Schori's victory party, at least that is my sense of what we have been reading, and that depending upon the information being accurate of course. |
| Causidicus | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:21 Updated: 2007/2/15 20:31 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/3 From: Posts: 1065 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Patience ladies and gentlemen. The statements referred to came from a report of a sub-group of the ACC. The report is advisory, was prepared last fall, and, can be ignored by the primates if they wish. This meeting is only beginning. Keep praying.
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| Leonard | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:25 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:25 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2004/11/2 From: Denver Posts: 141 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND I still think "If Schori talks, Africa walks." IF the Anglican Communion does not act DECISIVELY with the heretical TEC, then all is truly up, folks.
The CEC awaits you with open arms! |
| lapittengr | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:27 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:27 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/21 From: Posts: 195 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND DV's report here may be a bit premature.
At least at SF they're pointing out that the document DV seems to be describing here is not so much the "will of the primates" but rather the AAC's spun report on PECUSA's reception of it. Also, no need to harsh on the primates. There's not much they can do anyway. They can say, as individual national churches, that they're out of communion with PECUSA ... they can receive refugee priests into their jurisdiction from that "mission territory." They've done so. They cannot, by fiat, do anything more. Moreover, the Anglican Communion, as such, doesn't have any "legal" or "institutional" power over PECUSA to make them do anything anyway. All it can do is issue non-binding communiques which are enough of a compromise to rally enough votes from the company. So expecting something "magical" to come out of Tanzania is just silly... and yet another example of an ultimately meaningless "line in the sand" that most of the stay-and-try-to-survive folks will draw and then ignore, as they have been for 30 years now. But don't go blaming the *primates* for that! pax, LP |
| etagert | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:27 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:27 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2006/5/4 From: Posts: 131 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND The article states: "The 35 Primates of the Anglican Communion agreed..." Is this true? Many people are saying this was a report prepared for the Primates, not the result of the Primates discussions.
For now, until there is clarification, I will retract the above call to "Abandon Ship!" |
| KievCaves | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:27 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:27 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2006/6/19 From: Posts: 82 |
WOTHLESS WORTHLESS WORTHLESS This last "make or break" months in the making ...
After YEARS of degeneration and cancerous heresy ... The North American church hemorrhaging ... And the first DAY is spent deciding whether they can "sit at the same table" ??!!! Continental drift is more dynamic and decissive; and the Albuquerque Balloon Festival should have as much hot air as this bunch. The fact that Schori was seated at all is an afirmation of her and ECUSA --- Sorry, but the witness to the world (what the world sees) are bishops seated together and recognizing each other. But hey, at least Duncan got a free trip to Africa |
| sentinel | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:28 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:31 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/6/11 From: Posts: 261 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Being an Anglican on the outside looking in, I have been hoepful that decisive action might be taken here. This is not getting off to a good start.
But, I guess we shall have to wait and see.  |
| AnamK | Posted: 2007/2/15 18:35 Updated: 2007/2/15 18:35 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2007/1/28 From: Florida Posts: 24 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Sometimes I feel like there are two different sets of Southern Primates.
The ones that seem to be unswervingly orthodox in their beliefs while they are safe in their provinces and the ones that show up at these gatherings and "BLINK"! "And the LORD God said unto the Bride, What is this that thou hast done? And the Bride said, The ACC beguiled me, and I did eat". |
| KievCaves | Posted: 2007/2/15 19:11 Updated: 2007/2/15 19:12 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2006/6/19 From: Posts: 82 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND "Cheer-up Rose, at least the band is nice and we've got our Episcopal name and building. And I hear the Primates will try to raise the ship at Lambeth 2008."
 |
| Howell | Posted: 2007/2/15 19:44 Updated: 2007/2/15 19:44 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/1/13 From: Colorado Posts: 441 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND These initial reports do appear on the surface to be disasterous for us Orthodox. I'm hoping for a miracle from the Primates who seemed so determined recently to deal with "the problem" once and for all, but I must confess I just ordered 3 books on Catholicism from Barnes & Noble. How devastating so far!
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| MicroCar | Posted: 2007/2/15 19:47 Updated: 2007/2/15 19:47 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/7/6 From: Posts: 391 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND What a pathetic farce.
Got out Nov 06, out of the Anglican Com Feb 07 Feels great! I'm free. How can you stand it. Micro+ |
| lapittengr | Posted: 2007/2/15 19:58 Updated: 2007/2/15 19:58 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/21 From: Posts: 195 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Don't forget -- PECUSA is not the only Anglicanism in the U.S.
And you don't have to decide Anglicanism is wrong, just because you have to leave PECUSA. Heck, one of the reasons to leave PECUSA is because it's not Anglican any more. To go Roman or Eastern means that you've decided that they're right and Anglicanism wrong where they differ. And that's a very different thing from deciding that PECUSA is apostate. The Continuing churches, as it turns out, were right. They rightly saw where PECUSA was going 30 years ago, and took steps to prepare a continuing refuge for those who wished to remain both Anglican and Christian. And for all that they've had their own minor disagreements which have led to a multiplication of jurisdictions, those differences are insignificant compared to the total differences of faith in PECUSA. PECUSA is dead, has been for 30 years, and there is, structurally, nothing the primates ever have been able to do to change that fact. All this past hopeful spinning about what the primates will do doesn't change the fact that it won't affect the direction KJS and the apostates are determined to keep taking PECUSA. People's hopes have been way too high if they've thought otherwise... as it seems many have, given how distressed they are now. Anyway, for those finally confronting those facts, remember not to write off Anglicanism entirely just because finally writing off PECUSA. You may decide that Anglicanism is wrong. But decide that on the actual merits of the case, not on PECUSA's apostasy. And remember that there is still orthodox & catholic Anglicanism to be found in the Continuing churches... the true hope (even if still small in size) for a genuine orthodox & catholic Anglicanism in the U.S. pax, LP |
| gregory | Posted: 2007/2/15 20:14 Updated: 2007/2/16 10:45 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4423 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Bagdag Bob is coaching someone at this meeting and the article seems to me to prove that.
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| Wordsworth | Posted: 2007/2/15 20:22 Updated: 2007/2/15 20:22 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2004/2/14 From: Pensacola,Florida Posts: 71 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Well and truly spoken, LP !!
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| lkwells | Posted: 2007/2/15 20:25 Updated: 2007/2/15 20:25 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/2/19 From: Posts: 607 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Thank you for saying it, LP. I have asked twice on SF what strategy the Neo-Anglicans have in mind when the current meeting has faded into history and nothing has changed for them. The reality is that they have none. Actually, the Revisionist Regime has become a kind of cottage industry for the self-proclaimed "reasserters." They can huff and puff and carry on their ministry of blah-blah-blah. If VGR, KJS, et al., were suddenly to repent, they would have no mission in life.
We have watched this asinine farce for 30 years now. Remember how in the era of St Louis the FIF crowd (then called Coalition for the Apostolic Ministry) piously declared its intentions to "stay in and fight." That quickly proved to be a strategy of "stay in and sell out." So we can look forward to the "reasserter" blogs giving us another season of "ain't it awful" re-runs, as they have for so long as the internet has been with us. |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2007/2/15 20:37 Updated: 2007/2/15 20:39 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Lkwells, I am ONE reasserter who agrees with you! And don't be too surprised if you hear something about this from my bishop later on.
Remember: The second vote on our decision to leave TEC is scheduled for October's diocesan convention....unless it's called for sooner. And at this point, I'm none too crazy about +++Rowan Cantuar. My prediction: It will pass by the same majority as the first vote did. The question then will be one of which jurisdiction we'll join. Pray for us and our bishop. Cennydd |
| leader1111 | Posted: 2007/2/15 20:38 Updated: 2007/2/15 20:38 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/6/19 From: Hobe Sound, Florida Posts: 233 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND If this deplorable situation continues the greatest sadness will be slaughter of the innocents (traditional Anglicans) remaining in TEC, and the Anglican Church of Canada.
God, in your infinite wisdom lead your people from this pending extermination so that we might continue to spread the received word. Yes, the information is from the ultra liberal TEC sponsored Anglican Consultative Council, but some of the information is undoubtedly correct, who is seated, etc. With the revisionists license to kill no one will be safe. The only safe haven will be the civil courts. With a verdict that they "substantially met" Windsor, which required nothing on the revisionists part, TEC is and will be part of the Anglican Communion, and the cancer will consume the remaining healthy parts of the body in short order. |
| KievCaves | Posted: 2007/2/15 20:45 Updated: 2007/2/15 20:47 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2006/6/19 From: Posts: 82 |
What is "Catholic" and "Orthodox" Anglicanism? What is "Catholic" and "Orthodox" Anglicanism?
Is "Catholic Anglicanism" anglicanism that adheres to select Catholic dogma and practice? Is "Orthodox Anglicanism" anglicanism that follows select Orthodox dogma, teaching and practice?What are the Catholic and Orthodox Anglican tenets? How universal are the continuing churches .. i.e. do the TEC/TAC, FIFNA, REC, CEC all share universal theology and dogma? Do they have shared altars? (i.e. are they truly "catholic"). Which Orthodox traditions do they hold? Which Orthodox beliefs? .. i.e. transubstantiation, infant Eucharist (Eucharist if you are baptized), the icon as a window to heaven, salvation through sanctification? "Traditional" is not the same thing as catholic (universal) and/or orthodox (adhering to dogmas as set by eccumenical councils 1 -7 only). A Catholic can go to any Catholic church in the world and (theoretically) be in the same liturgy, practice and belief. An Eastern Orthodox can do the same thing -- only the language and chant melodies (not the words, dogma, creedal beliefs) change. One major "flaw" in Anglicanism is that creedal and dogmatic faith definitions aren't cannon - they are in Catholocism and Orthodoxy. NOT meaning to start argument, but my perception has been that "Catholic Anglicanism" means male only priesthood and traditional liturgical practice; and "Orthodox Anglicanism" means adherance to the 1928 prayerbook. In which case - the continuers should get together and cannonize the form and doctrine of 1928 BCP, and work towards universalizing their episcopacies. |
| Primus | Posted: 2007/2/15 20:53 Updated: 2007/2/15 20:53 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2005/2/25 From: Posts: 5 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND The odds of removing TEC from the Communion have been very remote. As said elsewhere, “The Africans pray, the Americans pay and the British write the resolutions”. How true. The Church of England cannot survive without the support provided by the US (Rose Society and other institutions). Hence, it is not entirely surprising for +Cantuar and associates to pass this resolution of TEC being Windsor compliant. Moreover, the British establishment most likely couldn’t care less about +Akinola and the African Churches – they are probably perceived as reminiscences of the Old British Empire - that contribute little if anything to their current financial and/or intellectual lifestyle.
Since +Cantuar also likes to be a negotiator, and Bishop Duncan was also called to attend a private briefing, and Bishop Akinola has surely met with +Cantuar, there could be something else in the cards here, something that would put at ease the conservatives in the US. I would wait until this conclave in Tanzania is over before taking a final stance on this matter. Nimrod Forever. |
| lkwells | Posted: 2007/2/15 21:01 Updated: 2007/2/15 21:01 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/2/19 From: Posts: 607 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND "Lkwells, I am ONE reasserter who agrees with you! And don't be too surprised if you hear something about this from my bishop later on."
Cennydd, dear brother, the householder goes out into the market-place inviting laborers into his vineyard even at the eleventh hour. "Why stand ye here idle all the day long?" We will all receive a days wages at the end. Even now there is room at the banquet. So get your wedding garment on and come on in without tarrying for any. But don't wait on any bishop: NOW is the accepted time, NOW is the day of salvation. I expect nothing from your bishop but more flattering speeches. Come into the vineyard NOW before it is too late. Your bishop cannot save you from the wrath to come. |
| Jude21 | Posted: 2007/2/15 21:12 Updated: 2007/2/15 21:12 |
Quite a regular  Joined: 2005/11/12 From: Posts: 44 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND I do not have a warm & fuzzy feeling about all this.
Did anyone else catch this from another post? "At a press conference, Aspinall reported that earlier today he had presented to the joint meeting of the Standing Committee of the Primates and the Anglican Consultative Council a proposal for a worldwide study of hermeneutics. "It was well received", he said. An observer noted that this seemed to be upgrading the "listening process" preparing a higher ground for diverse interpretations of the Bible in the name of hermeneutics (a theory of interpreting texts) that could allow a technical basis for the Episcopal Church's innovations in sexuality." A wonderful new program to insure that the Bible is interpreted to mean what it OUGHT to...not what it says. God bless every one! |
| Marlin | Posted: 2007/2/15 21:21 Updated: 2007/2/15 21:21 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2007/1/9 From: Springfield Ohio Posts: 38 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND It's not over yet but if TEC isn't smacked down by the communion then me mum and I are going to turn Roman Catholic.
This is utter nonsence. When are some of these people going to wake up. |
| lapittengr | Posted: 2007/2/15 21:50 Updated: 2007/2/15 21:50 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/21 From: Posts: 195 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Quote:
it is possible to determine that PECUSAs apostacy does say something about Anglicanism itself You can assert that... but just asserting it doesn't prove anything. It's just as likely you've got a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy on your hands. Now, if you could show some Anglican doctrine or dogma or practice which led inexorably to WO, lax theology on divorce & remarriage, and approving homosexuality, then you'd have a case. But, in all these, it's the *denial* of Scripture and Tradition -- the denial of the Anglican theological obedience to those -- which is the problem. It's not inherent in Anglicanism -- it is, rather, inherent in early-to-post modern subjectivism, secular humanism, and first world materialism. (I'd go so far as to say that, being influenced from these from the get-go -- at least in the sense of being a "sister phenomenon" -- this could be said of Protestantism as a whole... but that's a bigger & trickier subject). The point is, though, that it's not *Anglicanism* which is the source of this apostasy, but the modern secular world. NOW... what you could rightly say, I think, is that Anglicanism has been shown to have some fundamental *structural* weaknesses which have allowed this to happen. For example, if the Anglican Communion *really* were a communion -- if the council of primates had some normative ecclesiastical and legal power, analogous to, say, the Ecumenical Patriarch -- then member churches being corrupted by their local society could have been reigned in. Further, if the "canon law" of PECUSA had had clear and unambiguous statements of basic theology -- rather than being sufficiently vague as to allow all sorts of creative re (and mis) interpretation -- then the apostasy could have been nipped in the bud as well. One lesson from all this for future Anglicans is, thus, that such accountability and clarity is needed. The Continuing Church's "Affirmation of St. Louis" is an excellent example of such clarity. But just because PECUSA has fallen to apostasy, doesn't mean that it's inherent in Anglicanism -- thus the other national Anglican churches haven't done so and the anglocatholics of the Continuing churches haven't done so. It just means that PECUSA has sold itself out to the spirit of the age for 40 years, and that the Anglican Communion as a whole is in need of becoming *actually* a communion, rather than just an "episcopal jamboree". pax, LP |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/2/15 21:53 Updated: 2007/2/15 21:53 |
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Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND On Newman this is a pertinent comment he made over 100 years ago Quote:
Religious Liberalism God Bless BHTech |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/2/15 22:16 Updated: 2007/2/15 22:17 |
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Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Lapittengr said "But just because PECUSA has fallen to apostasy, doesn't mean that it's inherent in Anglicanism -- thus the other national Anglican churches haven't done so and the anglocatholics of the Continuing churches haven't done so."
You make an interesting point Lapittengr but I think there is more to it than what you suggest. I would suggest rather that the closer a Protestant group is to true Catholicism (RC and EO) the smaller the chances of that group being swept away by apostasy as a whole in time. My statement may be broadside but I think history speaks for itself and that is what Neuman saw even as an Anglo-Catholic. This is why the Anglo-protestants are more in disarray say, than the Anglo-Catholics who themselves are in disarray. They are not united. Although the Anglo-Catholics are in disarray it is because of a lack of leadership and direction, rather than the Anglo-Protestants whose theology and everything else is left, right, and center. They are truly Protestant. The world or more specifically the West being highly secular does not help of course, but it is time many face up the obvious fact that Anglicanism (Anglo-Protestant/Catholic) Achilles heel is its lack of authority. It always has and will always be its problem, no matter what emerges in the near future. God Bless BHTech |
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| lapittengr | Posted: 2007/2/15 22:17 Updated: 2007/2/15 22:17 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/21 From: Posts: 195 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Newman:
Quote: Never did Holy Church need champions against it more sorely than now when, alas! it is an error overspreading, as a snare, the whole earth . . . Liberalism in religion is the doctrine that there is no positive truth in religion, but that one creed is as good as another Affirmation of St. Louis: Quote: We gather as people called by God to be faithful and obedient to Him. As the Royal Priestly People of God, the Church is called to be, in fact, the manifestation of Christ in and to the world. pax, LP |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/2/15 22:27 Updated: 2007/2/15 22:37 |
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Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Dear Lapittengr
I truly respect you guys and your affirmation of St. Louis even though I don't agree with it all, but you have my uttermost respect. It appears to me that no matter which way one slices even the Anglo-Catholic movement it is still essentially and inescapably a Protestant one. The appeal to the faith of the original "Catholic" Church, like the appeal to the tradition of the early centuries, is futile. Why? There is no one to say what that faith is, or what that tradition is, or what that tradition says about Scripture. NO ONE. Certainly not Canterbury! Let me further add that unless I am wrong each Anglo-Catholic parish decides for itself what is Catholic or not and acts accordingly. Thus there is no visible entity to which the Anglo-Catholic can point and say, "That is the 'Catholic Church' to which I the Anglo-Catholic belong." That "Catholic Church" is only an abstraction. Again I repeat this is what Neuman saw in a nutshell and that is why he left for Rome. Peace and Blessings my friend. BHTech |
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| TENTEX | Posted: 2007/2/15 22:40 Updated: 2007/2/15 22:42 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/1/25 From: Murfreesboro, TN St. Patrick's (CANA) Posts: 240 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND The Primates have three days to fix this mess. It may be no big deal that they have blinked on the first day. That is no surprise. Yes, I know it took forty years in order to get to the mess we are in. This is THE meeting where it is supposed to be OVER!!! They can do it if they want to. Many of us have left TEC for good, and can also no longer remain in the same Communion with TEC. There will be NO waiting for Lambeth '08 or G.C. '09, or whatever else. One way or another, those of us who have left TEC will be in a different Communion than TEC, soon. The primates have three days to make that possible, or else individual orthodox provinces will have to begin leaving the Anglican Communion. If even this does not happen, I am afraid that many of us will feel the need to go our separate ways. I do not know where I would go. Rome is NO option. Neither is Protestantism. Eastern Orthodoxy would be a huge change to swallow. Three days, three days.
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| Cennydd | Posted: 2007/2/15 23:05 Updated: 2007/2/15 23:05 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Greidinger, what proof is there that this was in fact "written last Fall," as you say? I've neither seen nor heard anything about it.
Cennydd |
| lapittengr | Posted: 2007/2/15 23:14 Updated: 2007/2/15 23:14 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/21 From: Posts: 195 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Quote:
unless I am wrong each Anglo-Catholic parish decides for itself what is Catholic or not and acts accordingly. Thus there is no visible entity to which the Anglo-Catholic can point and say, "That is the 'Catholic Church' to which I the Anglo-Catholic belong." That "Catholic Church" is only an abstraction. I think you *are* wrong. :) For the "genuine" (i.e. Synod of St. Louis) anglocatholics of the Continuing Church, at least, the norms of "catholicity" expressed by the Affirmation of St. Louis make it clear that they are Scripture, according to the normative interpretation of Tradition expressed in the Fathers, the Creeds, and the seven Ecumenical Councils. In other words, the definition of "catholicity" which held for the whole Christian world for a millenium. (Okay, okay... not a millenium for all seven councils, but you know what I mean.. :) ). What is *not* "catholic" for the anglocatholics of the Continuing Church are the novel claims to papal supremacy and infallibility made by the Patriarch of Rome. This is part of the reason why I, when I confronted PECUSA's apostasy 15 years ago, *didn't* turn to Rome. If I do not believe in the pope's claims to universal ordinary jurisdiction or (since the 19th century) infallibility, then I have no business pretending to be a *Roman* Catholic. I agree with you, though, that in some sense today's anglocatholicism is somewhat "inchoate". This is, however, not surprising -- it's only in the last 30 years, as the ever-uneasy shotgun wedding between Protestants and Catholics in Anglicanism has come unravelled, that there's been the separating of the two and the beginings of what will become a "jurisdictional" (in addition to theological) definition of "anglocatholic". I'm sure that as the main Continuing churches start to come together, there will be a more extensive Catechism and soforth to flesh out what is already present in nuce in the Affirmation. As well as, in the light of the failure of the Anglican Communion to *be* a communion, a clear and unambiguous delineation of authority, with a council of bishops (perhaps eventually archbishops?) as final authority -- just like the apostolic and patristic church. So, no, I don't think that the Continuing churches, which leave behind them the Calvinist errors of some "reformed" Anglicans, are "Protestant" in theology or ecclesiology or sacramentality or orders... unless, of course, you are defining as "Protestant" or "not Catholic" any group which is not in communion with the Bishop of Rome. But that's a bit tautological... and also not the definition of "catholic" as anglocatholics use it -- they use it in the same sense that the Eastern Orthodox do, who call themselves "catholic"; in the same sense as the patristic saints & theologians did, who called themselves "catholic" even without accepting papal supremacy; in the same sense as the Nicene Creed does. At least, IMHO. At any rate, those who wish to give up on Anglicanism can certainly consider Rome. My point was, chiefly, the observation that giving up on apostate PECUSA is not the same as giving up on Anglicanism -- the failure of the one is not per se the failure of the other -- and people should realize that they can stop being Episcopalians without having to give up being Anglicans... because there is the option of the Continuing church. pax, LP |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2007/2/15 23:20 Updated: 2007/2/15 23:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND I'm with you, TENTEX! Quote:
"The primates have three days to make that possible, or else individual provinces will have to begin leaving the Anglican Communion." I don't know about "individual provinces leaving the Anglican Communion," but I DO know that several dioceses have threatened to leave The Episcopal Church....mine among them. The required "second vote" for leaving TEC is scheduled for the October 2007 diocesan convention of the Diocese of San Joaquin, and I will vote FOR it, as I did in December 2006. Just where that will take us is uncertain at this time, but I would say that this depends on what PB Jefferts-Schori does. If she persists in doing what she has been doing, I think we will definitely leave. The idea of a second province is attractive, but so is the idea of joining an overseas Anglican province....with or without Canterbury. I've been a halfhearted supporter of +++Rowan Cantuar up until now, but even that support is waning. I wish it were otherwise, but I'm afraid it isn't. Cennydd |
| jamesv | Posted: 2007/2/15 23:30 Updated: 2007/2/15 23:30 |
Just popping in Joined: 2007/2/15 From: Posts: 1 |
Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIN I am suspicious that Dr. Green made his rounds in Africa and Southeast Asia prior to the primates meeting.
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| xenophore | Posted: 2007/2/16 0:01 Updated: 2007/2/16 0:01 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/7/25 From: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 158 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Quote:
But that's a bit tautological… and also not the definition of "catholic" as anglocatholics use it -- they use it in the same sense that the Eastern Orthodox do, who call themselves "catholic"; in the same sense as the patristic saints & theologians did, who called themselves "catholic" even without accepting papal supremacy; in the same sense as the Nicene Creed does. The reason we Orthodox can use the term “catholic” is because it was the Patriarchate of Rome, in promoting the doctrinal novelty of papal supremacy by unilateral insertion of the filioque into the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, that separated itself from the other Patriarchates of the Church that continue to hold the catholic Faith. To say that Anglo-Catholics use the term “catholic” in the same way as the Orthodox or the early Fathers is incorrect and misleading, as being theologically divergent from the Faith of the Church while still trying to call oneself “catholic” is a contradiction. For a good read on the subject, try Catholic Orthodoxy and Anglo-Catholicism by J.J. Overbeck. Even in the 19th century, he describes what we see in Katherine Schori and the vast majority of TEC bishops today: Quote: On the contrary, there is a large class of Broad-Churchmen, chiefly consisting of young worldly people of loose morals or superficial scientific pursuits, who use or rather abuse religion as a cloak which one needs in good society; or who use Religion as a butt for their abortive wits and loathsome sneers. There is no human hope for these, but the heavy hand of God's merciful providence may, in due season, find its way to the heart of those whom we consider now to be castaways. |
| Isaac | Posted: 2007/2/16 0:18 Updated: 2007/2/16 0:18 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/3/1 From: Texas Posts: 595 |
Re: DAR2007 - PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIN jamesv:
I suspect your very first post here may be 100% dead on. Isaac |
| Wittenberg | Posted: 2007/2/16 0:23 Updated: 2007/2/16 0:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/10/30 From: Seattle, WA Posts: 226 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Regarding alternatives for unhappy Anglicans, even though I know that it has relatively few parishes in the US, what about Western Rite Orthodoxy, under the Antiochan Orthodox Church? IMHO, the Roman Catholic Church is already too liberal in its interpretation of Scripture, having adopted Higher Critical methodology decades ago, and why should one have to embrace the Eastern Rite if one is a committed Western Rite Christian? If I were not a convinced confessional Lutheran, I think that I would go to the Western Orthodox. It is, I think, a real tragedy that the Orthodox Church in this country is not promoting the Western Rite more to unhappy Anglicans. It seems to be a chauvinistic "take it or leave it attitude" about having to become Eastern Rite if one wants to become Orthodox.
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| chaps | Posted: 2007/2/16 1:58 Updated: 2007/2/16 1:58 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2007/2/11 From: Posts: 438 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Wittenberg wrote:
"It is, I think, a real tragedy that the Orthodox Church in this country is not promoting the Western Rite more to unhappy Anglicans. It seems to be a chauvinistic 'take it or leave it attitude' about having to become Eastern Rite if one wants to become Orthodox." 1. Western Rite Orthodoxy continues to prosper--there are good things happening. 2. Learning the Eastern Rite isn't as difficult as it's made out to be and it is has a depth and fullness lacking in the Western Rite. (no disrespect intended--my personal opinion) |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/2/16 3:30 Updated: 2007/2/16 3:32 |
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Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Lapittengr said Quote:
I agree with you, though, that in some sense today's anglocatholicism is somewhat "inchoate". I'm not sure it is "somewhat inchoate" because Neuman identified the problem over 100 years ago and tried in vain to convince himself for 2 years! I believe he described it as a "paper church", but that is not an inditement against my brothers in Christ, but rather testimony to the fact that the problem has existed for a long period of time among Anglo-Catholics. Quote: I'm sure that as the main Continuing churches start to come together, there will be a more extensive Catechism and soforth to flesh out what is already present in nuce in the Affirmation. One should pray that they come together, but it begs the question as to why they waited that long in the first place. Also what guarantee is there they will find a common consensus and what form of governance in a ecclesiastical sense will it take? Perhaps these are tough questions since we do not know the future, but it stands to reason that if 5-10 years goes by and a structure resembling the Othodox does not emerge, then you guys will be trouble again, but this time of your own accord. It is my hope and prayers that this will not happen. I noticed you used the word "genuine" in reference to some Anglo-Catholics which automatically implies some "false" anglo-catholics. I use the word false not to mean disingenious but those that might not adhere to the Synod of St. Louis. What is your opinion on how they should be considered in the Continuum and what emerges? God Bless BHTech |
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| frjude | Posted: 2007/2/16 3:56 Updated: 2007/2/16 3:56 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/1/9 From: Heartland Posts: 277 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND I've got to believe more is coming in the next few days. I've got to believe that the tradionalist remnant of 'tec' will be given it's own province. I've got to believe this, because it's bedtime, and I need some sleep.
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| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2007/2/16 5:44 Updated: 2007/2/16 5:44 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND So I guess you're anti-American, too, since the Congress makes mistakes every day it's in session.
I suppose you're a Rhodes Scholar Tory-type who wants to see a reuinion with England and the king. In any other context, what you dream for is called "dictatorship" and "tyranny". Why do you trust one MAN over many men? Your position defies the orders of our Lord who commands, "Put not your trust in men" and it deifes logic and it defies common sense. It is the awe and reverence of a slave for his master -- and I'm not talking Jesus Christ here, I'm talking a flesh-and-blood master called "Father" (so named in defiance of Scripture). "surely you have your reward". So too did the tribes of Israel. |
| desiderius | Posted: 2007/2/16 5:59 Updated: 2007/2/16 5:59 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2007/1/17 From: Darkest Africa Posts: 75 |
I told you so No reprimand of TEC. No split. No schism. No apologies for VGR. No nothing. Akinola and friends have ZERO credibility - the last of the big talkers.
After Tanzania, to call yourself an orthodox Christian and remain in the Anglican Dysfunction is a contradiction in terms. |
| desiderius | Posted: 2007/2/16 6:46 Updated: 2007/2/16 6:46 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2007/1/17 From: Darkest Africa Posts: 75 |
Dar es Salaam: The final scene After bidding KJS a teary farewell, Akinola watches her plane go down the runway and take off, disappearing into a cloudy African sky. Through the mist, he sees Njongo "sexuality is a secondary matter" Ndungane.
Akinola turns to him and says, "You know, Njongo, I think this could be the start of a beautiful friendship." [Fade to credits] |
| aspire1983 | Posted: 2007/2/16 7:39 Updated: 2007/2/16 7:39 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/10/12 From: FORMERLY Diocese of Virginia / Now CANA Posts: 421 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND No holy purpose is served by the orthodox primates cowering or allowing their minds to be massaged into submission by alternate wordings and the use of TEC's own terms.
The logical result of this will not only be a schism, but an eventual dissolution of the Anglican Communion. If even the orthodox Primates cannot be trusted to follow through on their courageous first steps, it's time for the rest of us to go pray in the cornfield! The people in purple aren't just shooting themselves in the foot; they're shooting themselves in the head! Shortly after GC2003, someone made a comment that the "American Bishops were playing Russian Roulette with the Anglican Communion". I have since devised Three Tips for People in Purple with Regard to Playing Russian Roulette. These tips are expressed in admittedly physical terms, but I'll be more than happy to leave it to the erudite wisdom of anyone bothering to read this post to discern the underlying and spiritual meaning of each. Here goes: TIP #1: When playing Russian Roulette, a bishop should use only a single bullet, not a fully loaded gun. TIP #2: When placing the bullet into the gun, a bishop would do well to ensure that the gun is a revolver, not an automatic pistol. TIP #3: When all other safety measures fail, a bishop should consider wearing a mitre made of ballistic-resistant Kevlar to minimize the mess. |
| DnNeal | Posted: 2007/2/16 12:34 Updated: 2007/2/16 12:34 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Wittenberg,
It is true that Western Rite Orthodoxy has not been emphasized in the past and even sometimes resisted by some of the more xenophobic among the Eastern Rite folks but now this is increasingly not the case. Western rite parishes are springing up all over and inquiries have been coming into the Antiochian Board of Missions and Evangelism in a flood. There is much activity in the WO. If interested check out this site for a recent event: St. Andrews House Let it be known here that I am only posting this for those who have an interest. I know that not all will be and that is fine with me. I had to go with the Orthodox some 10 years ago due to matters of conscience. For those of you who aren't I sincerely pray that realignment efforts are successful. Traditionalists should as much as possible stick together. Blessings, Neal |
| DnNeal | Posted: 2007/2/16 12:35 Updated: 2007/2/16 12:35 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Wittenberg,
It is true that Western Rite Orthodoxy has not been emphasized in the past and even sometimes resisted by some of the more xenophobic among the Eastern Rite folks but now this is increasingly not the case. Western rite parishes are springing up all over and inquiries have been coming into the Antiochian Board of Missions and Evangelism in a flood. There is much activity in the WO. If interested check out this site for a recent event: St. Andrews House Let it be known here that I am only posting this for those who have an interest. I know that not all will be and that is fine with me. I had to go with the Orthodox some 10 years ago due to matters of conscience. For those of you who aren't I sincerely pray that realignment efforts are successful. Traditionalists should as much as possible stick together. Blessings, Neal |
| sentinel | Posted: 2007/2/16 12:43 Updated: 2007/2/16 12:43 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/6/11 From: Posts: 261 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND Quote:
I've got to believe that the tradionalist remnant of 'tec' will be given it's own province. But it will be a joke and the Anglican Communion will become a parody of itself if the apostates in TEC and the Church of Canada are allowed to remain. |
| Becket | Posted: 2007/2/16 13:29 Updated: 2007/2/16 13:37 |
Just popping in Joined: 2007/2/16 From: Posts: 2 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND The title of this article is misleading, and there are inaccuracies and misleading information beginning with the very first sentence, unfortunately an all-too-common occurrence here.
Facts: - No one "blinked". Everyone knew beforehand that Schori & Sentamu would be seated. That was clear to anyone who had been following the developments. - "The 35 Primates of the Anglican Communion agreed today that the American Episcopal Church had not lived totally up to the demands of the Windsor Report, but gave the TEC a pass saying that its actions were 'sufficient' and 'adequate in its own terms'." - Completely untrue and misleading. That was a report by the 4-person Sub-Committee, appointed by and including the ABC. It was delivered and entered into record. "The 35 Primates" had nothing to do with it. Only 4 did. - "The Primates refused any formal censure of the Episcopal Church" - Again, untrue. Someone please show me anywhere an official release from the Primates stating this. Quite to the contrary, indications are that the agenda is going differently than scheduled, with MORE time being devoted to talking about the problems with TEC. The Global South Primates are not likely to back down. No official action, positive or negative, has been taken toward TEC by the entire body of Primates. Those things being said, we all know any votes will be close, especially with three of those expected to vote with the orthodox not being present. But it would be nice to continue in fervent prayer about the meetings, and to give the Primates time to work through these things, before jumping to conclusions, and certainly before releasing false reports (which, if it was an honest mistake, has been posted here plenty long enough to have been corrected). Discarding biblical orthodoxy, Church tradition, and the Faith Once Delivered to the Saints, is not acceptable, and calls for action. However, sensationalism, pot-stirring and misleading information in search of website hits are also not acceptable, and in fact they reduce the credibility of one who is supposed to be one of the "good guys" (i.e., the orthodox). This kind of thing has happened FAR too often here. Shame. |
| db4him | Posted: 2007/2/16 14:02 Updated: 2007/2/16 14:02 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/5/19 From: Posts: 423 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND If this stays true the Anglican Communion is done as a Christian denomination. It may have the vestiges, but if you lie with the dogs, you smell like one and ultimately, the denomination will stand for nothing. No salt, no light... just sweet, sweet compromise.
So far, very dissapointing. |
| frjude | Posted: 2007/2/16 19:25 Updated: 2007/2/16 19:25 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/1/9 From: Heartland Posts: 277 |
Re: DAR2007: PRIMATES BLINK. SCHORI AND SENTAMU SEATED. WIND On sale now at the Dar Salaam Giftshop:
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