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Viewpoints : SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negotiation. Iker wins on WO
Posted by David Virtue on 2007/1/11 14:10:00 (6144 reads)

'Conservative' evangelicals. The proper use of the word 'conservative', when applied to evangelicals, is that we hold tenaciously to the teaching of Christ and the apostles as given to us in the New Testament, and are determined to 'conserve' the whole biblical faith. This was the apostle's charge to Timothy: 'keep the deposit', conserve it, preserve it, never relax your hold upon it, nor let it drop from your hands.--From 'That Word "Radical"', Church of England Newspaper - John R.W. Stott

The historic Christian faith: At the risk of oversimplification and of the charge of arrogance, I want to argue that the evangelical faith is nothing other than the historic Christian faith. The evangelical Christian is not a deviationist, but a loyalist who seeks by the grace of God to be faithful to the revelation which God has given of himself in Christ and in Scripture. The evangelical faith is not a peculiar or esoteric version of the Christian faith -- it *is* the Christian faith. It is not a recent innovation. The evangelical faith is original, biblical, apostolic Christianity. --From "Make the Truth Known" (Leicester: IVP, 1983)

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
www.virtueonline.org
1/11/2007

In his latest book, "America Alone", eminent culture watcher and commentator Mark Steyn, argues that in the new century the West will be confronted by three major crises: declining population, economic stagnation, and a loss of confidence in its leading cultural institutions. "What makes these crises so serious is that they are taking place as the West is faced with a grim challenge from a new direction, a militaristic Islam that he defines as a twenty-first century political project driven by a seventh-century ideology.'" He concludes that the West is unprepared to face this threat which Steyn attributes to the pervasive influence of multiculturalism and a tolerance of Islamic intolerance that has already crippled many countries in Europe.

Mr. Steyn could have written the epitaph of The Episcopal Church and quite possibly Western Christianity itself.

The Episcopal Church, through its new leader Mrs. Jefferts Schori, has nixed the idea that Episcopalians ought to reproduce themselves; the church's money is drying up because increasing numbers of dioceses cannot extract it from dying parishes and orthodox dioceses do not believe in her definition of "mission" with the bulk of the national church's money coming from dead men's trust funds and endowments. Finally, Episcopal leaders have demonstrated a near complete loss of confidence in the faith they purportedly say they uphold. In Arkansas last week Mrs. Schori had this to say at her first consecration about whether she could "affirm" Jesus' statement: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." She does so with caveats. Here is what she said: "I certainly don't disagree with that statement that Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. But the way it's used is as a truth serum, or a touchstone: If you cannot repeat this statement, then you're not a faithful Christian or person of faith. I think Jesus as way - that's certainly what it means to be on a spiritual journey. It means to be in search of relationship with God. We understand Jesus as truth in the sense of being the wholeness of human expression. What does it mean to be wholly and fully and completely a human being? Jesus as life, again, an example of abundant life. We understand him as bringer of abundant life but also as exemplar. What does it mean to be both fully human and fully divine? Here we have the evidence in human form. So I'm impatient with the narrow understanding, but certainly welcoming of the broader understanding." Asked about the rest of Christ's declaration: "No man cometh unto to the father but by me," Jefferts Schori continued. "Again in its narrow construction, it tends to eliminate other possibilities. In its broader construction, yes, human beings come to relationship with God largely through their experience of holiness in other human beings. Through seeing God at work in other people's lives. In that sense, yes, I will affirm that statement. But not in the narrow sense, that people can only come to relationship with God through consciously believing in Jesus," she said. And you wonder why orthodox Episcopalians are fleeing the church in droves. Her statements convert nobody and nothing. *****

The week began ominously with news from London that Rowan Williams feared a schism in the Anglican Communion. The Anglican Communion is on the brink of separation over homosexuality, and the ABC admitted that he fears losing control of the Church. "I fear schism, not because I think it's the worst thing in the world but because, at this particular juncture, it's going to be bad for us. It's going to drive people into recrimination and bitterness." You can read the full story here or in today's digest: http://tinyurl.com/y47mqo

The week ended badly with a report out of Johannesburg that the African Anglican archbishops plan to cold-shoulder Mrs. Schori when she shows up in Tanzania next month. Several African leaders have blasted Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, the first woman to head the U.S. Episcopal Church, for backing gay clergy and same-sex unions. They have urged Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams not to invite her to a global meeting of Anglican primates in Tanzania. You can read the full story here or in today's digest. http://tinyurl.com/y6xzn4

All this points to the fact that Dr Williams could well preside over a make-or-break summit in Africa next month with his fellow primates. He is hoping that a compromise will emerge, allowing conservatives and liberals to co-exist relatively peacefully until a more formal split can be worked out over the next decade.

Meanwhile, the Archbishop faced fresh turmoil in the Church of England following the disclosure that more than 50 gay or lesbian priests have "married" in civil partnership ceremonies.

IN IRELAND they elected a new Primate, following the retirement announcement of Archbishop Robin Eames. The newly-elected Archbishop of Armagh, Alan Harper is viewed by many Irish media commentators as the leading compromise candidate for the post of Archbishop of Armagh. Bishop Harper is perceived to be liberal on a number of social issues. Speaking on BBC Radio Ulster in September 2003, Harper affirmed permanent homosexual relationships: "if a relationship between homosexual males is creative of love as well as being permanent and lifelong I don't think that I am able to say that it is intrinsically disordered." You can read the full story here or in today's digest. http://tinyurl.com/ymu5ec

IN THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH this week Virginian Bishop Peter James Lee announced that he would not renew the 30-day standstill agreement with the clergy and members of congregations who voted to leave the Episcopal Church to associate with the Anglican Church of Nigeria, the Bishop of Virginia, Peter James Lee, thus paving the way to massive litigation in the courts to seize the properties from the orthodox priests and their congregations. You can read that here or in today's digest as well. http://tinyurl.com/vyr2n The rector of Falls Church, the Rev. John Yates and Dr. Os Guinness, sociologist and culture watcher wrote a brilliant piece, "Why we Left The Episcopal Church" which you can read here or in today's digest. The priest and a scholar tell why. http://tinyurl.com/yj3z29

In the DIOCESE OF PENNSYLVANIA they held a special diocesan convention which revealed a diocese in financial free fall. You can read that here or in today's digest. http://tinyurl.com/ykuw7q VOL later learned that a Maryland Legislator is questioning the Diocese of Pa. Wapiti Land Deal in his state and believes the actions of the diocese are "unconscionable" in what they doing to homeowners, taxpayers and the State of Maryland. You can read that here: http://tinyurl.com/ym536f

In the DIOCESE OF FORT WORTH there was some truly good news for Bishop Jack Iker, when he learned that the Archbishop of Canterbury's Panel of reference ruled that Women's Ordination should not be forced down orthodox diocese's throats. The problem flowed from the canons, passed in 1974, permitting the ordination of women to the priesthood and to the episcopate. They were originally permissive, that is, no bishop was obliged to ordain a woman. The canons were later amended in 1997 by adding the words, "No-one shall be denied access to the ordination process nor postulancy, candidacy or ordination in any parish or diocese of this church on account of his or her sex." This additional wording made the canon mandatory. http://tinyurl.com/yad3ts

But the ink was barely dry on the Panel's statement when Integrity, the official LGBT (or GLBT) organization rose up in righteous indignation and expressed its dismay at the panel's decision. The Rev. Susan Russell, President raged "Who's Next?" and then said "this confirms what Integrity has long maintained--that scapegoating of gay and lesbian vocations and relationships is part of a wider agenda of discrimination and is antithetical to the Gospel message of Jesus. We believe that excluding a percentage of the baptized from a percentage of the sacraments based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity, misses the mark of God's will for God's church. Therefore we do not accept discrimination as a valid theological position; rather we name it as sin."

As far as I know there has never been a recorded "attack" on any woman in the church for being a woman, and no homosexual has ever stepped forward and filed charges against an orthodox priest or bishop for assault. What is going on of course is that orthodox priests are being hounded out of the church by revisionist bishops bent on turning the TEC into a Unitarian association pushing MDG's.

In Syracuse, in the DIOCESE OF CENTRAL NEW YORK, The Episcopal Church attempted to intervene in Diocesan Lawsuit. Pursuing her now famous doctrine of Peace and Shalom, Mrs. Katharine Jefferts Schori and her attorneys served legal papers asking the New York State Supreme Court to intervene in an ongoing lawsuit seeking to seize St. Andrews Church in Syracuse. "How do peace and shalom fit into suing local parishes around the country, said Syracuse attorney, Raymond J. Dague to VirtueOnline. To this writer's knowledge this is the first time a Presiding Bishop has deliberately intervened in an ongoing lawsuit between a diocese and parish. Not even Frank Griswold stooped that low. Mrs. Schori

The move comes six months after the Episcopal Diocese of Central New York filed a lawsuit against St. Andrews to take the property from parishioners in that congregation who have worshipped there since 1903. To date, St. Andrews and its priest, Fr. Robert Hackendorf, have successfully resisted the attempt by the diocese to take the parish through legal action, when action was first taken by the diocese in July 2006 and again in September. Now the whole thing has been ratcheted up a notch with the interference of the national church. http://tinyurl.com/vgqml

In the DIOCESE OF SOUTHWESTERN VIRGINIA, Bishop Neff Powell tried to spin the departure of Holy Spirit Church. But his history is flawed, says the Rev. Quigg Lawrence. Bishop Powell did offer his public support and "condolences" to the Virginia bishops who are wrestling with fleeing parishes. Powell said that talking to bishops around the U.S. whose congregations have fled the TEC, that "in every single case the clergy led the move to leave." .... http://tinyurl.com/y3ps3o

SEWANEE ALUMNI SURVEY: Things must be so bad at the university with faculty morale over the Gang of 18's anti-Christian debacle and with poor fundraising from rich alumni over the name change that the brain trust at Sewanee is once again hiring consultants to come to the rescue with a survey that will be ignored if the responders tells them the truth, a VOL reader and Sewanee Alumnus wrote to VirtueOnline. The University of the South has engaged Stamats, Inc., a research and consulting firm, to poll University alumni on a variety of important issues. The results of this survey will help provide better communication, better programming, and better service to Sewanee alumni. Or they will figure out that the Episcopal Church's only university does not uphold the faith once delivered and put their money elsewhere.

In Fairfield, in the DIOCESE OF CONNECTICUT the Anglican Mission in America is making inroads into that diocese. According to the AMIA website, there are now 200 people attending a new AMIA church plant - The Church of the Apostles. Apparently they are siphoning off parishioners from Episcopal Trinity and St. Michaels in Fairfield CT where average Sunday attendance (ASA) went from 60 to 20 and St Timothy Church, Fairfield, ASA went from 160 to 90 when this AMIA mission started. The Church gather in a new school auditorium to hear the scriptures powerfully preached, to receive communion, and to celebrate the confirmation of a dozen young people into Christian maturity. "The Lord is doing this," affirmed Bishop Thad Barnum.

Wrote a VOL reader: "I think there are a lot of people who would like to leave the Episcopal Church, and will leave once a critical mass of people can be found, but are not prepared to fight with the people who want to stay, and as the early days of this mission show, will only leave once there is a critical mass to move to. The end result is people are enthusiastic about mission once again, and each of these missions seems to spawn new missions.

CEILING COLLAPSE. While watching the news on WCVB Channel 5 in Boston, a VOL reader wrote to say that a small church that meets at Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge had its ceiling collapse during services. No one was hurt apparently. But it did lead one wag to observe that the sky might just be falling in on the liberals...literally. The city of Cambridge Inspectional Services Department is investigating the accident.

BISHOP V. GENE ROBINSON must be feeling the pain these days. A number of Anglican clergymen associated with the Anglican Church in America (ACA), the American Province of the global Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC), recently gathered to ordain a new Priest in Rochester, NH.

The Most Rev. George D. Langberg ordained the Rev. Deacon Michael P. Sclafani to the Sacred Priesthood at Trinity Anglican Church in Rochester, NH. Bishop Langberg was assisted by the Rt. Rev. Dr. Brian R. Marsh, Bishop Suffragan, and Priests and Deacons from as far north as Maine, and as far south as New York. There were over 130 witnesses. Fr. Sclafani was ordained to the Transitional Diaconate in Concord, NH on July 9, 2005. Fr. Sclafani will continue serving All Saints Anglican Church in Concord, and St. Margaret of Scotland Anglican Church in Conway, NH.

The ACA has congregations in Concord, NH, Amherst, NH; Rochester, NH; Holderness, NH; Salem, NH; and in Conway, NH. Bishop Langberg is President of the ACA House of Bishops as well as Bishop Ordinary of the Diocese of the Northeast (DNE), which includes all of New England and NY. There are twenty four parishes and missions in the DNE, nine of which are located in NH. Heartburn for Vicki Gene.

In the DIOCESE OF SOUTH CAROLINA the heat is being turned up on the Rev. Mark Lawrence as to whether or not he will get consents to be consecrated bishop. One Blog has done some initial tallying of Consents (Lawrence needs 56) to be the next bishop. To date he has gotten 17 yes and six no. The six who have withheld their consent are: Los Angeles, Olympia, Western Michigan, Nevada, Bethlehem, Eastern Michigan and Kansas. 51 bishops are needed. Ten have said yes none have said no. According to one person consents have stalled. But the folks in SC are optimistic that consents will definitely be received. Consents or not they will go ahead with the consecration anyway. Mrs. Schori will not be invited.

THE Archbishop of Canterbury announced the members of the Covenant Design Group (for Lambeth 2008) that he has appointed in response to a request of the Joint Standing Committee of the Primates' Meeting and of the Anglican Consultative Council. The group will meet under the chairmanship of the Primate of the West Indies, Archbishop Drexel Gomez, and includes experts in canon law, the nature and mission of the church and ecumenical relations from around the Communion. In addition to a small core group, Williams is also appointing a wider circle of corresponding members, who will be assisting the Group's work.

The Group will hold its first meeting in Nassau, the Bahamas, in mid-January 2007, and present an interim report to the Primates Meeting and Joint Standing Committee when they meet in February in Tanzania.

The members of the Covenant Design Group are:

The Most Rev. Drexel Gomez, West Indies The Rev. Victor Atta-Baffoe, West Africa The Most Rev. Dr. John Chew, South East Asia Sriyanganie Fernando, Ceylon The Rev. Dr. Kathy Grieb, USA The Rt Rev. Santosh Marray, Indian Ocean The Most Rev. John Neill, Ireland The Rev. Canon Andrew Norman, Archbishop of Canterbury's representative Chancellor Rubie Nottage, West Indies, Consultant The Rev. Dr. Ephraim Radner, USA Nomfundo Walaza, Southern Africa The Rev. Canon Gregory Cameron, Anglican Communion Office, Secretary

About third of this group are solidly orthodox: Gomez, Atta-Baffoe, Chew, Radner. Revisionists include Cameron, Walaza, Neill, Grieb. The rest are unknown and will swing with the majority.

Calling this a Design Team smacks a bit like an Ikea Furniture Catalogue. We have already had hints about how this will work:

1. No resolutions will be passed. (Never again will the liberals allow a resolution like 1:10 to come to the floor for a vote).
2. Concentrate on putting everyone in small groups. This will dissolve anger and absolutes by putting Mrs. Schori and Akinola in the same small group. Small groups was a favorite tactic of Frank Griswold.
3. Muzzle Akinola.
4. Make sure that the Africans are dispersed into groups where they are not the majority voice.
5. Allow no public discussion about sodomy or same-sex unions.
6. Concentrate on Mission - The Africans will talk about gospel conversion; Mrs. Schori will talk about MDGs. No one will agree. They will not have holy communion together and everyone will go home unhappy.
7. The Africans lead by Akinola will then announce the Anglican Communion as we know it is dead. Maybe.

CONTINUING JURISDICTIONS continue to nip at the heels of The Episcopal Church.

Statistics indicate that there are more than five million independent Anglicans around the world. Most are evangelical and many Anglo-Catholic.

THE Metropolitan Archbishop of the Anglican Episcopal Church of Chile has joined the Anglican Independent Communion. The Archbishop of the church, The Most Rev'd Dr Patricio Viveros Robles has been appointed Archbishop Primate of the new AIC Province of Southern South America, with responsibility for Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia and Peru. We welcome Archbishop Patricio, his bishops, clergy, parishes and people to the Communion

THE Anglican Mission in America will host its annual Winter Conference January 17-20, 2007 at the Hyatt Regency Riverfront Hotel and Conference Center, Jacksonville, Florida. VOL has learned that some six Anglican Primates will be there including two retired Primates of the Anglican Communion. I will be there to cover this conference and post stories daily to the website: www.virtueonline.org. If you need still need to sign up, go here: cbrust@anglicanmissioninamerica.org

Speakers include Mission Chairman, the Rt. Rev. Chuck Murphy, Dr. J. I. Packer, Canon Michael Green, Becky Pippert, the Rev. Jack Deere, Andy Piercy and Greg Bunch to name but a few. Some 1200 participants are expected to attend. The Anglican Mission in America (AMiA) is a missionary movement of the Anglican Province of Rwanda formed in 2000 and charged with building an alliance of congregations committed to gathering, planting and serving dynamic Anglican churches in North America.

The TRADITIONAL ANGLICAN COMMUNION (TAC) announced through its primate the Most Rev. John Hepworth that there were new recent appointments to the College. According to Australian based Primate they now have bishops in Bangalore, India, also in bishops in Amritsar, Rockes Sandhu, and a new Bishop of Delhi, James Lal. "India plans to fill the remaining vacant dioceses in the coming year, and I have as yet seen only a tiny segment of that vast continuation of Anglican Church in India," writes Hepworth. Hepworth also welcomed Bishop Brian Marsh, Assistant to George Langberg in North Eastern USA, and Fr. Daren Williams will be appointed Bishop of the Diocese of the West in the US. "In Australia we have had the consecration of David Robarts as Bishop of the Southern Apostolic District, and of Harry Entwistle as Bishop of the Western Apostolic District. They have been made in collaboration with Forward in Faith Australia. In the meantime, we welcome these men, one of whom is a former Dean of Perth, and the other a former Archdeacon of Perth." Hepworth said that two priests Craig Botterill and Carl Reid will become bishops in Canada at the end of January. A new TAC Directory, including contact details for every country will be published in late January. Hepworth says his College is undergoing both generational change and an infusion of new dynamism and experience.

IF YOU ARE a new reader, welcome to VIRTUEONLINE. VOL's website www.virtueonline.org with some 100 active stories can be viewed with a single click. Stories are added and changed daily. Please feel free to purchase your books from Amazon.com at VOL's website. Amazon will reward VOL with a few pennies for every purchase you make.

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Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2007/1/11 23:36  Updated: 2007/1/11 23:36
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
God's peace. Russell, female head of ECUSA's Voice of Mannish, Intersexed and Transgendered (ECUSA-VOMIT) said this: "Therefore we do not accept discrimination as a valid theological position; rather we name it as sin."

Excuse me while I "kiss the toilet". Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
shytech74
Posted: 2007/1/11 23:46  Updated: 2007/1/11 23:46
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/4/23
From: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1054
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Hepworth said that two priests Craig Botterill and Carl Reid will become bishops in Canada at the end of January.
-----------------------------------------
Lord willing, I'll be there.
Check out my humble blog for my musings on this as it hits home to me...these guys will be my bishops, particularly Fr. Carl Reid.
www.xanga.com/BR_DM_OHS
The TAC, and the ACCC especially is desperately in need of "dynamism" rather than doddering old men with rosary beads in one hand and a censer in the other.
daveball
Posted: 2007/1/12 0:57  Updated: 2007/1/12 0:57
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/12/18
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2377
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Mark Steyn's book "Alone in America" is an amazing work. He wrote it as a discussion of the perils facing western society and does not make explicit comment, at least that I recall, to progressive liberalism in our religious institutions directly but he clearly cites the perils of the results. If abortion is OK, birth rate will decline. If straight couples are so absorbed in themselves and their narcasistic gratification that children are postponed or altogether avoided, birth rate will decline. If homosexual "couples" become normative, birth rate will be zero in that area.

If people feel free to define their own "belief set a/o theology", at least one major cultural institution is destroyed. And he goes on. A very compelling discussion.

And in the other corner - Muslims are breeding like rats. Birth rates well over 4 (compared to less than 2 for the western world). All they need do is wait. In Italy and Spain, the epicenters of RCs, the birth rate is at or below 1.3, the point of societal suicide from which recovery is impossible. Who will fill the void? He who breeds. Thing Italistan and Spainistan

TEC will suffer the same consequence eventually. They will simply decline in numbers until the rate of replacement is insufficient to sustain them. (This ignores the accelerant of defection) I know there was a previous discussion in this space about comments on lack of birth rate but it was in an entirely different context.

Take away a society's value system and its population growth and its economy is unsustainable. Without growth, values and economic growth, a void is created into which flows any mechanism that is self sustaining and growing. I don't worry about "global warming" or any other disaster mechanism we can imagine. We, as western society, won't be here long enough to worry about it the way much of society is headed.

Learn to say "Inshallah"

Blessings.
Cennydd
Posted: 2007/1/12 1:21  Updated: 2007/1/12 1:22
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6863
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Br_Carlo, I too read her latest diatribe, and it made me want to vomit.

Merely thinking about this woman makes my stomach queasy!

Cennydd
Causidicus
Posted: 2007/1/12 2:51  Updated: 2007/1/12 2:51
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/3
From:
Posts: 1095
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Susan Russell - the March Thespian of self-righteous indignation.
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2007/1/12 13:08  Updated: 2007/1/12 13:08
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Quote:
Harper affirmed permanent homosexual relationships: "if a relationship between homosexual males is creative of love as well as being permanent and lifelong I don't think that I am able to say that it is intrinsically disordered." You can read the full story here or in today's digest.


Dear Archbishop Whackjob,
MARRIAGE IS TO PRODUCE AND RAISE CHILDREN. IT IS NOT TO ENGAGE IN MUTUAL ************* OR ****-*********!

The mind that denies the "instrinsic disorder" of homosex is itself instrinsicly disordered and a perfect candidate to lead the Ministry of Truth.
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2007/1/12 13:17  Updated: 2007/1/12 13:17
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
It's not just the Mohammedans who are breeding like rats. Our trespassing neighbors to the south have a birth rate of 11:1000 and have increased their numbers in the US 1,100% since 1940.

While the RC bishops think this is just fine-and-dandy because it puts butts in their pews, all we need do is observe the primitive state of Mexican society, its blood-thirsty, lawless drug culture, the laziness of its people, and the masses' utter indifference to their own fate to realize they will simply outbreed us, take our land and our money, then vote us out of our own country in a democratically elected Congress of aliens. We are a Dream Come True to Mexicans, Manna from Heaven, as it were, here for the taking.

As screwed up as we may be, when European Protestants are finally bred out of existence, I shudder for the fate of the world that follows. Please, heathens of the world, let me and mine live in peace, up in the frozen tundras of the North!

Moslems, Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, all who want what they did not earn in the first place. And we are so stupid we give it to them at the sound of the first whine.
Cennydd
Posted: 2007/1/12 13:32  Updated: 2007/1/12 13:32
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6863
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Joe, be careful here! A whole lot of those people whom you complain about....Moslems, Mexicans, Chinese, Indians....are proud and productive citizens of this country. "Moslems" includes people of many races....as do "Mexicans."

My son-in-law is Mexican-born....having earned his citizenship the hard way; he worked for it! He came across the border illegally at the age of 15 because his parents couldn't feed their four children. Like so many, he sent money regularly to his family....helping them live better lives.

Now, he is established in a thriving business of his own, and is a proud Mexican-American who takes his citizenship responsibilities very seriously.

The same can be said of the other groups whom you so unfairly disparage.
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2007/1/12 14:43  Updated: 2007/1/12 14:43
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Quote:
As far as I know there has never been a recorded "attack" on any woman in the church for being a woman, and no homosexual has ever stepped forward and filed charges against an orthodox priest or bishop for assault.


Oh David!

Now yo've gone and done it - you've given them the idea!!!
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2007/1/12 14:46  Updated: 2007/1/12 15:06
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
[EDITED for IMPACT]

As a man who swore to protect and defend the Consitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, "so help me God" I am surprised and not a little disappointed at your selectivity. That oath has no expiration date.

Believe it or not - I am sensitive to your predicament. That is why it takes our friends to keep us on the straight and narrow. Emotions and heart-strings are false-friends.

PS: I could not care less about the canard used to justify open-borders that goes, "They are willing to work hard and support their families".

SO WHAT. How is that different from every one of the remaining 6,000,000,000 Homo sapiens on earth? Should we therefore give them our homes, too?
Cennydd
Posted: 2007/1/12 17:08  Updated: 2007/1/12 17:27
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6863
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Joe, I took the same oath you did. I swore to defend this country, just as you did....and I meant it. Sure, our borders are porous....too much so, in fact, and I DO support a reasonable immigration policy.

But facts are facts, Joe! People come across our southern border because they can't find work that will allow them to support their families and give their children a decent education! Health care for the poor in Mexico is virtually non-existent in most parts of the rural countryside, but IS available to those who can afford it in the bigger cities and towns. The village my son-in-law comes from has only one telephone....at the Alcalde's Office. There is no health clinic for miles around.

If you really want to place blame on anyone for this situation, you have only to take a good long look at the Mexican government....one of the worst pack of crooks on the planet! Then look at the bankers and industrialists....their bosses....the wealthy landowners....and the legal system, such as exists. It's pretty bad when a "gringo" or "gringa" has to pay an exorbitant bribe to a Mexican lawyer to get him or her released from an atrocious jail!

Don't put all of the blame on the poor people, Joe....they're only trying like hell to survive, and they'll do whatever they have to do in order to do that!

And remember who picks the vegetables you eat the next time you or your wife go to the supermarket! If it weren't for people like them, none of us would be eating very well, and we'd pay a lot more for what we do get!

Cennydd
Anonymous
Posted: 2007/1/13 3:15  Updated: 2007/1/13 3:15
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
"The Episcopal Church, through its new leader Mrs. Jefferts Schori, has nixed the idea that Episcopalians ought to reproduce themselves; the church's money is drying up because increasing numbers of dioceses cannot extract it from dying parishes and orthodox dioceses do not believe in her definition of "mission" with the bulk of the national church's money coming from dead men's trust funds and endowments. "

The rash of lawsuits reminds me of the final days of WWII. With the Wehrmacht crumbling, the Nazis, rather than concentrating on fighting the war, instead intensified their genocide. Rather than actually DOING anything resembling Christian love and charity, which would earn some sympathy at least, TEC persecutes the "enemy within". I am so glad to be AMiA!!!!

"The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil.
Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate." Proverbs 8:13
Calphool
Posted: 2007/1/13 6:51  Updated: 2007/1/13 6:51
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/7/6
From:
Posts: 2
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Hmmmm....

"No man cometh unto to the father but by me," Jefferts Schori continued. "Again in its narrow construction, it tends to eliminate other possibilities. In its broader construction, yes, human beings come to relationship with God largely through their experience of holiness in other human beings. Through seeing God at work in other people's lives. In that sense, yes, I will affirm that statement. But not in the narrow sense, that people can only come to relationship with God through consciously believing in Jesus," she said."

My God woman, you are condemning yourself to eternal damnation. (John 3:18, John 3:36, Mark 3:29, Mathew 12:31) Worse still, you are, by not clearly speaking the plain truth as my 9 year old daughter can read for herself, encouraging others to do the same. Ma'am, the Blessed Lord died on a tree, as part of God's plan to present a choice to you. You can resist that choice all you want, but by avoiding the choice through excessive rationalization and over sophistication, you are, indeed, making a choice.

It is time to put to rest this idea that we are "using Scripture as a club" any time we disagree with you, and we can find clear support in Scripture. By wrapping yourself in such hollow, and ultimately meaningless hyperbole ("You're clubbing me with Scripture."), you are avoiding what you must confront, in your soul, for your sake, and for the sake of all who follow you. Jesus is not a nice pair of shoes, or a piece of fine jewelry that you can wear to make yourself feel better. He is not a matter of personal taste. He was, and is, the son of God, the Word, the Messiah, God's plan to make us all holy, because we are not intrinsically so. Either you embrace this, or you reject it. To avoid it, or dismiss it, or rationalize it away, or mix it with Buddhist ideas that there may be multiple paths, is, in the final analysis, to reject it.

"The Rev. Susan Russell, President raged "Who's Next?" and then said "this confirms what Integrity has long maintained--that scapegoating of gay and lesbian vocations and relationships is part of a wider agenda of discrimination and is antithetical to the Gospel message of Jesus. We believe that excluding a percentage of the baptized from a percentage of the sacraments based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity, misses the mark of God's will for God's church. Therefore we do not accept discrimination as a valid theological position; rather we name it as sin."

Rev. Russell, discrimination is not sin. That is absurd, and any child knows this to be true. Why do you not eat vomit sandwiches for lunch, Rev. Russell? Is it because you discriminate in what you choose to put into your body? Improper or unfair discrimination may be a sin, but discrimination itself is part of life. Since Scripture and Tradition clearly declare sexual orientations other than heterosexual to be anathema, it is at least up for debate whether such discrimination could be called improper or unfair.

What do you think was the purpose of the Council of Nicea in 325 AD? You know, where they drafted that little "poem" you recite every week in mass? The purpose was to discriminate against those who would reduce the Lord to what you and yours are trying to do right now -- those who would make him merely a man, and the not the only way to the Father... "Special secret knowledge" was the way to the Father for those who were discriminated against in 325 AD. How are you any different, Rev. Russell? Do you not claim to have some sort of special, extra-Scriptural, extra-Traditional knowledge about God's plan?

Reverends Russell and Schori, and all who agree with them, I do not make such arguments to lord over you some kind of wisdom. I am nothing but a worm placed upon the earth to endure the changes and chances of this life for a few years, and then I am dust. My knowledge is nothing. I have no wisdom, except that which God has made available to us all. And that wisdom is that Jesus alone is Lord. The triune Godhead is our only succor and source of strength and knowledge. It is only through Jesus of Nazareth that we may experience the eternal changelessness of The One who spoke the first word, and brought everything into existence. In Christian love, I implore you to stop avoiding and rationalizing and placing God in a box. He will not fit, and you will lose out on so much if you do not deeply consider your words. He is so much bigger than your cause for sexual licentiousness, or even "personal dignity", if you choose to wrap it in something more palatable to those you seek to "represent" or appeal to.

He alone is our counselor, our redeemer, our Father, our creator, our ultimate love. I hope and pray that you, and those who follow you, can come to see that before you pass away from this earth.
Anonymous
Posted: 2007/1/13 7:06  Updated: 2007/1/13 7:06
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Welcome to VOL, Calphool, and thank you for your excellent post!

Blessings,

wopriest+
Cennydd
Posted: 2007/1/13 13:37  Updated: 2007/1/13 13:38
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6863
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
And let me add MY welcome, calphool! What a wonderful post! Let's hope it reaches the right persons!

Cennydd
jmichal
Posted: 2007/1/13 17:26  Updated: 2007/1/14 0:36
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/11/23
From:
Posts: 14
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Joe of the Mountain raved: "It's not just the Mohammedans who are breeding like rats. Our trespassing neighbors to the south have a birth rate of 11:1000 and have increased their numbers in the US 1,100% since 1940.

<<snip>>

As screwed up as we may be, when European Protestants are finally bred out of existence, I shudder for the fate of the world that follows. Please, heathens of the world, let me and mine live in peace, up in the frozen tundras of the North!

Moslems, Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, all who want what they did not earn in the first place. And we are so stupid we give it to them at the sound of the first whine."


VoL just never changes, does it? Reminds me of Jack Nicholson's great line from As Good as it Gets: "Sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here."

Hey, Joe. I have a little research project for you. Please find the exact words in the US Constitution that proclaim the USA to be for the exclusive enjoyment of Protestants of Nordic European descent. Take all the time you need...I'll wait.

Word around the watercooler is that you and The Missus are soon to be blessed with offspring (if you haven't been, already). If you're daughtered, now or in the future, I hope she comes home from college someday with her new Significant Other - a nice Catholic boy from Guatemala.

Or, even better, a nice Muslim girl from Egypt!

Seriously, man. It'd do you a power of good.

John
kepha
Posted: 2007/1/13 18:11  Updated: 2007/1/13 18:11
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/11/16
From:
Posts: 165
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
JoeoftheMountain: My own family isn't lily white, and the non-English language I know best is Chinese. Draw your own conclusions. Let's just say that white Protestant missionaries got a bit of response from various corners of the globe; then their friends and followers got some response...

jmichal--While I feel Joe has been insensitive, I would not wish what you have wished on him. As someone who thinks that Cranmer, Ridley, and Whitefield were great men of God, I would wish the Protestant faith to grwo and prosper. As for lesbianism, Paul tells us in Romans One that it is a wicked fruit of idolatry--and there are some of us here who believe that it is no shame to turn from idols to serve the living and true God.
leader1111
Posted: 2007/1/13 19:55  Updated: 2007/1/13 19:55
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/6/19
From: Hobe Sound, Florida
Posts: 237
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Knowing about 70% of the priests in the (Continuing) Anglican Catholic Church of Canada (ACCC) (TAC) I have found no one to be … “doddering old men with rosary beads in one hand and a censer in the other.” I, instead, have found men of many ages including the younger Fr. Janzen OSG, Fr. Reid, Fr. Kipling Cooper, Fr. Botterill, Fr. Mansfield, Fr. Ivey and Fr. LePage to name but a few; and the older priests/bishops including: Fr. Braby SSC, Bp. Woolcock, Bp. Mercer CR, Bp. Di Catanzaro, Bp. Crawley SSC, Fr. Gale, Fr. Moore and Fr. Inshaw to be incredible shining examples of Christian charity, devout followers of the received word of Christ, generous to a fault, humble both as priests and men, who I would happily follow to God’s salvation. About the other 30%, who I don’t know, I have been told they are the same. Half were/are broad church and half anglo-catholic. I have never seen such an incredible group of priests so uniform in their quality in any other jurisdiction or region of the Anglican Communion (inside or outside), and I have been involved in most Western jurisdictions.

To those that have passed on, or re-retired, my family will never forget you and the persecution, vindictiveness and suffering, directly and indirectly, you received at the hands of the Anglican Church of Canada (ACC), and all with no financial reward for your service to the Lord. Oh, that other men might follow your example, and hear of your good works. I will always be here to tell them.

Ps. Just finished Mark Steyn’s book “Alone in America”. Many of his statistics were known by me, but not tied together. The facts are chilling.
Causidicus
Posted: 2007/1/13 20:41  Updated: 2007/1/13 20:41
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/3
From:
Posts: 1095
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Welcome indeed, Calphool and thank you for your true words.


Causidicus
Anonymous
Posted: 2007/1/13 21:23  Updated: 2007/1/13 21:23
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Dear Calphool

Let me add my voice to others in saying a warm welcome to VOL, and a good posting.

God Bless

BHTech
jmichal
Posted: 2007/1/14 0:34  Updated: 2007/1/14 0:41
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/11/23
From:
Posts: 14
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
kepha: My point was merely that humanity, the world and God are all vastly bigger, deeper and richer than JotM's miserably small conceptions of them, and that it would be of enormous benefit to him if some things happened in his life to shake up his prejudices.

It might even save his soul.

John
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2007/1/14 15:52  Updated: 2007/1/14 15:52
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Oh yeah, I forgot. It's right next to that section that says,

"After all the hard work has been done, the whole world shall be invited to "migrate" and plunder the fruit of our labor."
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2007/1/14 15:53  Updated: 2007/1/14 15:53
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
You never worked for anything in your life, have you jmichel?
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2007/1/14 17:12  Updated: 2007/1/14 17:15
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
You'll get no argument from me on the state of the Mexican government. But you'll also get an earful like this: My people have never accepted servitude. Why should we be importing tens of millions of people that do?

And that whole argument of "they are just trying to better themselves so who are we to deny them" sounds to my ears little different from the homosexual lobby's "we love each other, what's it to you?" propaganda line.

We cannot make law or set standards based on what a blood relative does. Period. That is tribalism and we are a nation of laws.

Of course, that is a uniquely northern European concept... and yet another reason why we should not allow tribalistic thinking - or the people who live like that - into our national home.

Cennydd, the true test of a man's character is to do the right thing at the exact moment it is hardest and most painful. I've done that -- I stood up to Syrian drug dealers while not yet old enough to drink. They threatened to kill me and I believed them. "Fraternity brothers" was their excuse. Prison was their answer. And I avoided Penn State for many years after on fear of my life!

I will certainly not back down because one of "ours" marries one of "theirs". *My* family has spilled too much blood to give this land away to anyone. Or as they once said, "over my dead body." And I mean it. And no, that's not a contradiction. That's a fulfillment.
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2007/1/14 17:24  Updated: 2007/1/14 17:30
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Kepha, while I appreciate your predicament, just how exactly does your family's indiscretion impose a liability (i.e., responsibility) on me?

I was not party to your family's mating or migratory decisions. Neither am I responsible for ameliorating the predictable sting of violating social taboos. (Heck, I violate enough of them on my own, trying my darnedest to preserve the tattered remains of *my* culture, without taking on someone else's self-imposed woes.)

Indeed, I turned down a number of such potential matings when I was a skirt-chasing womanizer. With great restraint, I did the right thing. So why must I pay for the consequences of someone else's self-indulgence? Your family committed the act, your family owes the penalty.

I note as proof of the "blood is thicker than water" assumption that every time I hear an argument in favor of interracial procreation, it is made by someone closely related to someone who has done it... usually, "My cousin is married to a _______!"

Obviously, blood IS thicker than water after all.

Quod erat demonstrandum.
jmichal
Posted: 2007/1/14 19:27  Updated: 2007/1/14 20:33
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/11/23
From:
Posts: 14
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Matt 5-7
Matt 20:24-28
Luke 6:27-35
Luke 10:25-37
Luke 15: 11-32
Romans 12:14-21
Galatians 3:27-29
Ephesians 2:11-22

Joe, I’m sure you’ve read or heard these scriptures many times in your life, but you’ve obviously never paid the least attention to what they say and mean. I suggest you do so now.

For all your blather about standing firm on “orthodox Christianity” you’re actually one of the most un-reconstructed pagans I’ve ever run across. If you had lived in early 1st century Palestine, and had ever heard Jesus of Nazareth preach, you would have been outraged! In fact, you probably would have been one of the leading voices calling for his arrest and conviction. Where is the tribalism that is so precious to you? Where is the regard for “manliness”, power, social position and property that is the true center of your life? All this wimpy, leftist rhetoric about “turning the other cheek” and “selling all you have and giving to the poor” and loving pagans and sinners? Come on, Joe! Just once in you life, be honest with yourself. Didn’t Jesus actually preach everything you hate and despise?

Not one of your values or ideals comes from the gospel of Jesus. In fact, all of your values or ideals are explicitly contradicted and condemned by that gospel. Until you allow yourself to be convicted by the message of Jesus you will continue to be a man with no integrity, and no share in the Kingdom of God.

John
Anonymous
Posted: 2007/1/15 11:53  Updated: 2007/1/15 11:53
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
JOTM wrote:
"we are a nation of laws."

No nation is "a nation of laws" if it doesn't enforce its laws. We need to enforce our immigration laws and get rid of the law(s) providing for "anchor babies." We already have more immigrants than we can integrate, so it needs to stop NOW. To use a Swiss expression for a similar situation, "the boat is full."

Blessings,

wopriest+
Anonymous
Posted: 2007/1/15 13:20  Updated: 2007/1/15 13:20
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Wopriest,

Did you casually allude to the *Swiss Navy* or was it a *double-entendre* with the expression "the boat is full?"

Anonymous
Posted: 2007/1/15 14:45  Updated: 2007/1/15 14:45
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
CathAnglo wrote:
"Did you casually allude to the *Swiss Navy* or was it a *double-entendre* with the expression 'the boat is full?'"

No, I couldn't possibly "float" a pun like that!

Blessings to punsters, too,

wopriest+
Wilhelm
Posted: 2007/1/15 15:48  Updated: 2007/1/16 14:45
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/6/19
From: The Colonies
Posts: 172
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
Please permit me:

Western Civilization is at stake. It's not a matter of Race, Creeds, Ethnicities, National/Geographical Origins, the full inclusion for which all true patriots of our nation embrace.

Labor provided by people from south of the border must be procurred legally - which includes registration, at a fair wage (ensuring it's competitiveness)and be conducted IAW this nation's laws. It doesn't take an MBA to recognize that this will cut into someone's profit margins, but that's business. Otherwise it simply isn't cricket - and has a plague of ills that threaten WESTERN CIVILIZATION.

Western Civilization is ultimately a manifestation of Christianity. It did not start as such but was so profoundly impacted thusly 2000 years ago, that it became it's chief enabling constituent. Dramatic events in the 15th Century resulted in Western Civilization departure from the RC Authority permitting the development and establishment of Modern Democracy and science enabling Western Civilization to become the Hallmark in man's existence, permitting peace, prosperity, Equality with Anglo-Protestant Religion to steer us. Western Civilization continues to evolve, but must be staunchly protected as do our primary religious institutions.

While Christianity and Western Civilization are not one and the same, they are as two intertwined strands. Frequently an attack on one becomes an attack on the other. There are those who hate Christianity with all their hearts. There are those who hate Western Civilization with all of their heart. There are those too, who hate both. As such we are under constant attack. If that weren't enough,there are plenty of folks falling under the umbrella of "Useful Idiots" (Lenin's Term)who serve these elements, generally with the intent of progressiveness. Regrettably, the Mainstream Episcopal Church succumbed and has become a very "Useful Idiot". I suppose that is why we visit this site.

Can we not see that the whole world has a great stake in the success of Western Civilization.
shytech74
Posted: 2007/1/15 23:25  Updated: 2007/1/15 23:38
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/4/23
From: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1054
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
leader1111,
I appreciate your sentiments. Please don't take my post as some sort of blanket condemnation.
If you care to check out my blog (I included the link) you will see that I personally have no real beef with the men chosen.
It is the overall laxity and overarching lethargy, the self contained, and self enclosed world of running a "tidy little business" that bugs me. Where there is no vision the people perish. We are shrinking; if you read the comments on my blog you'll see I did some quick "back of a napkin" math re the ACCC. Truly gives one pause. Small is not necessarily bad, stagnant and content is.

my xanga blog

more my xanga blog
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2007/1/16 0:30  Updated: 2007/1/16 0:30
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: SCHORI goes after parishes in VA and NY. Lee Nixes Negot
That is a good point, wopriest. It's a real-life "life boat dilemma".

God have mercy on us sinners.
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