News : ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 priests
ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 priests
by Christopher Morgan
The Sunday Times
December 31, 2006
THE Church of England is facing a new rift over homosexual clergy with the disclosure that more than 50 gay or lesbian priests have "married" in civil partnership ceremonies.
Traditionalists and evangelicals opposed to gay clerics said this weekend they would force open debate of the issue at February's meeting of the General Synod. Campaigners have criticised bishops for shying away from enforcing the church's policy of ensuring gay clergy are celibate before they are given authorisation to enter civil partnerships.
Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, is also likely to face criticism from primates of the Anglican communion at a meeting in Tanzania in February. The summit was called to mend splits caused by the ordination of Gene Robinson, a gay bishop, in America in 2003.
The figures on clerical civil partnerships come from Changing Attitude, a gay campaigning organisation in the Church of England. The figures show that at least 51 priests, including four lesbians, are now in partnerships. Colin Coward, director of Changing Attitude, said: "Civil partnerships have helped to increase the stability of same-sex relationships and reduced the social exclusion to which lesbian and gay people are often subjected."
George Curry, chairman of the Church Society, the oldest evangelical organisation in the Church of England, predicted a "crunch moment" at the General Synod.
"Many of these people have defied the guidance. These are men and women who are in active sexual relationships," he said. "These figures expose the bishops' failure of leadership."
Prominent civil partnerships include that of Canon Jeremy Davies, precentor of Salisbury Cathedral, with Simon McEnery, an opera singer; and Jeffrey John, dean of St Albans, with Grant Holmes, chaplain of Kingston hospital, Surrey. In 2003, John's appointment as Bishop of Reading precipitated a fierce dispute in the church which was quietened only when he withdrew from the post.
Paul Collier, a chaplain at Goldsmiths College, London, and a member of the Crown Nominations Commission, said he had had little questioning from Christopher Chessun, Bishop of Woolwich, when he entered into a civil partnership with his companion of seven years: "He wanted me to acknowledge the policy of the bishops. I told him that I understood their policy."
Asked if Chessun had inquired about the nature of his relationship, Collier said: "We didn't go into any great detail about that."
http://tinyurl.com/y7zwfb
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| Poster | Thread |
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| john4woman | Posted: 2006/12/31 15:08 Updated: 2006/12/31 15:08 |
Just can't stay away   Joined: 2006/5/28 From: california Posts: 104 |
 Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50I pray that God will administer stiffening of the backbone to the ABC so that he can be upright when needed. I certainly understand that he is tainted with secular progressivism, but he can't straddle the fence indefinitely.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/12/31 15:36 Updated: 2006/12/31 15:36 |
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Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 George Curry said "...These figures expose the bishops' failure of leadership."
Very few people in this world would care to listen to the real defense of their own characters. The real defense, the defense which belongs to the Day of Judgment, would make such damaging admissions, would clear away so many artificial virtues, would tell such tragedies of weakness and failure, that a man would sooner be misunderstood and censured by the world than exposed to that awful and merciless eulogy. - G. K. Chesterton |
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| ZachD | Posted: 2006/12/31 18:35 Updated: 2006/12/31 18:36 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2005/11/10 From: Posts: 1791 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Finally, crunch time, I sincerely hope.
"Forced Debate" in this upcoming Synod would be a precursor to what may happen for Canada in June. We have erred and strayed from Thy ways like lost sheep. We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts. We have offended against Thy Holy laws. There is no health in us. But Thou, O Lord, have mercy upon us misreable offenders . . . For, Lord, we are all culpable in this. Have mercy upon us! |
| cuervoria | Posted: 2006/12/31 18:46 Updated: 2006/12/31 18:46 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/6/15 From: College Station, Texas Posts: 541 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Civil partnerships are the law of the land.
These fifty may be nothing more than "roommates" taking advantage of the tax laws, but the fact is, they let pragmatism overrule principle; the Scriptures condemn the (suggested) behavior, while they are supposed to comport themselves above reproach . . .? You want to put a stop to it? Cut the cash flow. Disestablish the Government Church. They'll relinquish these sinecures the moment the money stops coming in. de la Cuervoria |
| quissum | Posted: 2006/12/31 20:24 Updated: 2006/12/31 20:24 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/2/18 From: Posts: 338 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Whether the ABC will prove himself a Chamberlain or a Churchill before such flagrant aggression and violation of holy Christian Faith will further decide, as it did for those men, history's judgment. But, then again, the Chief Shepherd's judgment is far more weighty and significant. Ah, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to appease...
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| lionheart | Posted: 2006/12/31 21:02 Updated: 2006/12/31 21:02 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/10/19 From: Posts: 354 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 There is a comic element to this. Fifty. Not a couple. Fifty. Are first world Anglicans even pretending to be Christian anymore? I mean, really. To those of you who feel that being a real Anglican Christian depends on remaining in communion with Canterbury, I say what good is it? Shake the dust off of your feet today. "Well, maybe being in communion with the Devil won't drag us all to hell, maybe he'll see the light. We should be patient with him." Please.
Christ is in our midst, lh |
| MicroCar | Posted: 2006/12/31 21:39 Updated: 2006/12/31 21:39 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/7/6 From: Posts: 391 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 lionheart:
"Well, maybe being in communion with the Devil won't drag us all to hell, maybe he'll see the light. We should be patient with him." Bloody brilliant mate! Micro+ |
| Daboo | Posted: 2006/12/31 21:58 Updated: 2006/12/31 21:58 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2006/8/21 From: Lynnwood, WA Posts: 76 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Quote:
To those of you who feel that being a real Anglican Christian depends on remaining in communion with Canterbury, I say what good is it? Shake the dust off of your feet today. There is no halfway point with Christ. You're either for Him, or against Him. Straddling the fence is against Him. |
| SixDays | Posted: 2006/12/31 23:12 Updated: 2006/12/31 23:12 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/2/23 From: Posts: 312 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 ...and the conservatives who are still directly or indirectly linked to Canterbury want to be in communion with this?????????
Unbelievable! SD |
| unitarian | Posted: 2006/12/31 23:29 Updated: 2006/12/31 23:29 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/12/31 From: Bryn Mawr, PA Posts: 307 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 This really is astonishing. I don't think these folks are going to pack the empty churches with new converts. Certainly not those with children.
That said, the RCC is full of homosexuals. The difference is that many of them still feel the tension that comes from knowing their activity is sinful--no worse than adultery or pride or greed, but no better either, and certainly not to be proclaimed. And the evangelicals have their problems too. I guess we are all fallen human beings. What to do? The comment about ending establishment of the church in England seems like a good start. Who is going to contribute THEIR money to maintain such "clergy"? Here in the US, we have lots of big old endowments that permit much the same neglect of what the faithful really think. Also, the hierarchy has to COME OUT AGAINST THIS LOUD AND CLEAR--just as strongly as they condemn poverty, AIDS, imperialism, racism, etc. But we must remember that we are all deeply sinful, and that we must above all judge ourselves. Still, no one is going to take seriously a "church" having such "leadership." Boston Unitarian |
| ZachD | Posted: 2007/1/1 0:38 Updated: 2007/1/1 0:38 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/11/10 From: Posts: 1791 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Daboo:
"Straddling the fence is against him." ______________________________________ Oooo, LOVE it! I wish my bishop could read those words and 'get it', but alas, he's damn proud of the fact that he has "risen above the factions" and has sought to minister to everyone. I know this because he told me so, as I sat in his office in October for a gentle chat about current issues, at my prompting. WHAT A JOKE! His tenure will be a laughing stock - rather, a great tragedy - like so very many sees out there! Sigh! AND DO NOT THINK that too many homosexuals now operate within the tension of sinful behaviours. Many now brazenly claim that their lifestyle is actually ordained of God, and that the conservative minority are the troublemakers and demanding their rights over the majority of the church. This is called delusional thinking. Biblically meaning: 'They exchanged the truth for a lie'. Many who blog here, then, are the MAD ones! Godspeed and all the best of the new year to each one of us. Trust everything to our wonderful Lord Jesus! |
| Antique | Posted: 2007/1/1 5:07 Updated: 2007/1/1 5:07 |
Quite a regular  Joined: 2006/9/19 From: Posts: 42 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Well, the tragedy of this is obvious.
But I also think the timing of this report couldn't have been better (well, maybe if it was delayed another 2 weeks). We have February coming up, mates! There are a lot of, er, upset (ahem) Primates eager to have something, er, firm (ahem) to say to about the status of TEC in the AC. It's been shaping up, so it would seem, as a "Look, Rowan. Either they go, or we go. Fish or cut bait!" situation. The only potential braking mechanism would have been ++Williams himself. Now his own church is reported as having 50+ priests actively living in sin and flaunting it. I don't think his braking power is anywhere near as powerful as it might have been before this report came out. I doubt the other Primates will countenance any waffling, and in the process, issue him a stern warning to clean his own house or the he'll soon be head of a little club consisting of CofE, CofCanada and TEC (OK, and maybe New Zealand). We'll see, but I think this report will just add resolve to the other Primates' demands. |
| fastball | Posted: 2007/1/1 8:36 Updated: 2007/1/1 8:36 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/6/29 From: Oklahoma City Posts: 555 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Lord,
Purge the Church catholic of these perverts, pedofile priests, and false teachers. God save the church from these jackals in 2007! |
| mathman | Posted: 2007/1/1 11:34 Updated: 2007/1/1 11:34 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Rockville, MD Posts: 1064 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 ABC needs to take lessons:
Don't ask. Don't tell. Don't pursue. In the closet! <sarcasm off> Seriously, why should this surprise anyone? We don't need no law. We don't need no Scriptures. We don't need no commandments. We're all OK here. Except for you perverted Orthodox, who have real hangups about living in the dark ages. There is no Heaven. There is no Hell. There is just this life, so let's eat, drink, copulate, and be merry! For tomorrow we die. And there's no life after death, so why worry? And we already know ++Williams. His motto is, "to get along, you have to go along". So go along now, Cantaur. The primates will have a lot of talking to do before they leave. |
| FrPhillips | Posted: 2007/1/1 18:57 Updated: 2007/1/1 18:57 |
Not too shy to talk   Joined: 2006/6/20 From: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 26 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 I am heartsick to think that a successor of the sometime Precentor of Salisbury Cathedral, Canon Cyril Vincent Taylor, should be one of those who actively flaunts his homosexuality. I studied under Canon Taylor, and have always been grateful for his gentle guidance and solid teaching, especially concerning the important place of music in the Church's worship.
One of my treasured memories was sitting in his drawing room, where his piano was located, on which he had composed so many of his fine hymn tunes. His incomparable "Abbots Leigh" has always been a favorite of mine, and I remember him playing it through in the way he had orginally written it -- an initial version with which he was not really pleased. He showed me how he "tweaked" the melody to make it the great hymn it is today. I shudder to think of the memories the present Precentor, Canon Davies, is giving to young men.  |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2007/1/1 20:32 Updated: 2007/1/1 20:32 |
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Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 God's peace. I am curious about why sodomites have such an attraction for the musical--both in and out of church (and please, don't try to be witty with quips about "attraction to organs," or the like). Any guesses? Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
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| xenophore | Posted: 2007/1/1 20:45 Updated: 2007/1/1 20:45 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/7/25 From: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 183 |
 Forget the Gospel! We've got to keep our building!Sadly, quite believable. Those too cowardly to leave their properties behind see staying in communion with Canterbury once (as if it's ever going to happen) TEC is declared out of communion with Canterbury as their means of hanging on to that which is obviously more dear to them than the Gospel.
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| mcb123 | Posted: 2007/1/1 21:25 Updated: 2007/1/1 21:25 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/10 From: St. James Anglican Church, OKC, OK Posts: 182 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Hmmm...very curious, is it not, that 500+ years on, and the CoE has become exactly like the "whore of Babylon" it sought to replace: a smug, materialistic, worldly, corrupt, and non-Biblical state religion...whod'a thunk it? Meanwhile, the RCC is the one who's been leading the Christian charge, albeit not perfectly, all these years since...it is indeed time for the New Reformation in the AC, and is coming soon in Alexandria.
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| Keble | Posted: 2007/1/1 23:47 Updated: 2007/1/1 23:58 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/11/13 From: Posts: 206 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 mcb123
The "whore of Babylon" position has already been filled - the whining applicant is none other than KJS, formerly of the great state of Nevada, now residing at #815 in NYC. Let him that understands initials, comprehend all. (By the way, are you at Fr. Vern's Church?) Keble |
| mcb123 | Posted: 2007/1/2 2:42 Updated: 2007/1/2 2:42 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/10 From: St. James Anglican Church, OKC, OK Posts: 182 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Keble...howdy...yes, our rector is Fr. Vern, who is busy doing God's work in our parish. I know a lot of people who are fairly convinced that the AC as we know it has got to change, soon, and that the "A" in AC is shortly going to stand for "Alexandrian"...
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| Truthseekr | Posted: 2007/1/2 11:03 Updated: 2007/1/3 11:59 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/14 From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru ) Posts: 784 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 deleted
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| Truthseekr | Posted: 2007/1/2 11:39 Updated: 2007/1/2 11:47 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/14 From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru ) Posts: 784 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Quote:
john4woman posts: -X--*--*--*--*--X--*--*--*--*--X--*--*--*--X- -X--*--*--*--*--X--*--*--*--*--X--*--*--*--X- -X--*--*--*--*--X--*--*--*--*--X--*--*--*--X- _________________________________ In the cattle / ranch / oil country, It is considered kind of dumb, For a Cow-boy, To try to straddle a 3 stranded barbed wire fence...  Butt then, That might explain, why... The Canterbury-boy, Can’t yet seem to find enough wisdom Or testosterone, To stand and persevere for biblical truth... |
| gregory | Posted: 2007/1/2 12:50 Updated: 2007/1/2 12:50 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 |
| Truthseekr | Posted: 2007/1/2 20:39 Updated: 2007/1/3 11:59 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/14 From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru ) Posts: 784 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 deleted
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| ZachD | Posted: 2007/1/3 0:09 Updated: 2007/1/3 0:15 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/11/10 From: Posts: 1791 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 I do not believe that all 'sodomites' are necessarily musically inclined, as Br_Carlo implies. Respectfully, this is something of a generalization. Professional linebackers are also 'gay' and may not at all be flautists! (couldn't resist).
Homosexual men may be something more inclined to heart-resonating issues and sensitivities. Most who honestly express the issues that made them feel 'different' in burgeoning pre-adolescence and adolescence, describe an alienation from more masculine persuits, and had a greater closeness to girls rather than boys. The reasons for this are complex and have origins in family relationships that go back to the time of 'pre-earliest' memory. Thanks, though, for the inquiry. And nope, I am not guessing. - Daryle. |
| gregory | Posted: 2007/1/3 12:34 Updated: 2007/1/3 12:46 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 deleted
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| gregory | Posted: 2007/1/3 12:38 Updated: 2007/1/3 12:38 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 Truthseekr, i had a post done asking what your post meant ??? but now i see it is deleted.
Did anyone else have a problem with the "tinyurl" link?? i've seen this article from VOL posted on other sites and the "tinyurl" link does NOT work there either BUT below is the original article link; http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2524441.html humbly, gregory |
| dvirtue | Posted: 2007/1/4 14:06 Updated: 2007/1/4 14:06 |
Webmaster  Joined: 2004/1/2 From: Posts: 175 |
Re: ENGLAND: Archbishop faces clash over gay marriages of 50 The URL has been corrected.
Thank you David W. Virtue VIRTUEONLINE |
