PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull Tax Exempt status of All Saints
by Philip Pettus
The body of evidence
The issue of the IRS asking for documents, e-mails and records of All Saints Episcopal Church makes it fairly obvious that a single sermon given by a leftist priest in 2004 isn't the only evidence of political activism the IRS may be considering.
I recall that several years ago President Bush's State of the Union speech was answered by a political rally at All Saints on the same night.
Speakers blasted the president. That event was covered by both the Star-News and local television media.
As for the Star-News editorial that came to All Saints defense, perhaps you folks should read your own news clippings about All Saints over the past six years.
As a former Episcopalian, I believe All Saints has been using the ministry of Jesus Christ for years as a cover for leftist political activity.
They pushed the candidacy of Los Angeles Bishop Jon Bruno to the diocese in the same fashion of a political campaign and they have backed the Episcopal Church's ventures into politics since Bruno's installation.
That some chickens have come home to roost from the IRS is probably due to All Saints members taking offense and giving the IRS assistance about the misuse of their tithes and offerings.
All Saints, under the U.S. Constitution, is entitled to do anything and say anything. They are simply not entitled to have a tax exemption as a religious institution if they venture into recommending some candidates and opposing other candidates.
I respect Rep. Adam Schiff as a man of honor and purpose. But in this case his knowledge is lacking and his reasoning is wrong in defense of All Saints. The IRS has a duty to investigate, unless we all agree the tax laws apply only to conservative churches and not to liberal, Green Party Christians, like those at All Saints Episcopal Church of Pasadena.
--This letter first appeared in the Pasadena Star News http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/yourview/ci_4413847
Philip Pettus
San Gabriel, CA
| Poster | Thread |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/9/30 15:37 Updated: 2006/9/30 15:37 |
 Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull Tax EYes and the province of Philipines (125 000 anglicans) has bowed out of the Kigali's Big Threat.
Fortunately, the Province of the Southern Cone (10 000 anglicans), for example, is still firm and committed to whatever that document said. Ok, *Venables* remains committed to all of that. It was written by some network big head, and Venables  JUST LOOOOVES IT! |
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| njones | Posted: 2006/9/30 15:43 Updated: 2006/9/30 15:43 |
Just can't stay away   Joined: 2004/1/29 From: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 94 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull Tax E This is short-sighted. If the IRS starts investigating liberal churches now under a conservative administration, who is to say they won't start investigating conservative churches someday under a liberal administration?
That is why we need a bright line rule in favor of free speech in religious bodies so everyone, conservative and liberal, can have their say. All Saints had an anti-Bush rally. Fine. The Greater Exodus Baptist Church in Philly had a pro-Alito rally where one of the speakers said: "... the only way to restore this republic is to elevate honorable leaders like Samuel Alito who want to replace the hubris of this court with humility and respected for the common sense of the American people... join me to make sure the answer is 'yes' on judge Sam Alito." Surely this is just as 'political' as what went on at All Saints? If you support the IRS against All Saints, don't cry when the IRS goes after churches who support Justice Sunday III when the Democrats eventually return to power. -nj |
| gregory | Posted: 2006/9/30 15:45 Updated: 2006/9/30 15:45 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull Tax E frehoa, That's the same old cologne...
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| gregory | Posted: 2006/9/30 15:51 Updated: 2006/9/30 15:51 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull Tax E ""All Saints had an anti-Bush rally. Fine. The Greater Exodus Baptist Church in Philly had a pro-Alito rally where one of the speakers said:""
Six plus years of political activism does NOT equal one rally for a Supreme Court Judge. Strange that Church and State should be seperate, per liberals which another story... Even stranger that it is okay for the State to envade the Church...  |
| jimB01 | Posted: 2006/9/30 19:14 Updated: 2006/9/30 19:14 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2004/10/29 From: Posts: 144 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull Tax E "Everything depends whose ox is gored" is an old proverb. Somehow I wonder, if Trinity was conservative and Greater Exodus liberal would the number of years matter? Isn't the conservative rule that one sin is enough?
FWIW jimB barely tolerated leftie |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2006/9/30 22:04 Updated: 2006/9/30 22:04 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull Tax E Actually, the conservative rule is that the government has no business meddling in private affairs.
I'd be happy if the 501(c)(3) tax provisions were repealled altogether, forcing all "educational institutions" to find financing the old fasioned way -- on merit, not on tax breaks. And for the true believer, that shouldn't matter one bit! |
| frjude | Posted: 2006/10/1 1:37 Updated: 2006/10/1 1:37 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/1/9 From: Heartland Posts: 280 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull Tax E This would be the ONE time I'm on the side of All Saints. Keep the IRS OUT of the church.
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| morrismpls | Posted: 2006/10/1 3:04 Updated: 2006/10/1 3:04 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 496 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull All S While related, Judge Alito was not running for a poltical post, hence holding a rally for him would not violate and IRS regulations. They can do pretty much what they want as long as they don't advocate for any specific candidates.
I remember two years ago at our diocesan convention, about 80% of the clergy had on Kerry-Edwards buttons. (The other 20% didn't have on any buttons BTW.) Generally speaking, I don't like the IRS getting involved in any of this. But I do get some ironic satisfaction about the chowder-heads who scream "Church-State Separation!!!" whenever the "religious right" does something they object to but can't see beyond their own noses. As the saying goes, "Separate this!" |
| rmcclain | Posted: 2006/10/1 4:35 Updated: 2006/10/1 4:35 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2004/1/26 From: Memphis, TN, USA Posts: 14 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull All S In the South, it is a known fact that many black churches, and pastors, use the church for political reasons..................wonder if they will be investigated as well??
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| JimMcNeely | Posted: 2006/10/1 4:58 Updated: 2006/10/1 4:58 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/4/7 From: Posts: 699 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull All S This whole conversation reminds me of Stanley Haurwas and Will Willimon's Book _Resident Aliens_. If you have not read it, go get a copy and read it. There is no greater explanation of the present lanscape of the Christian church in the present culture.
Folks, the Loon Left at All Saints have every right to say what they want. BUT...let us be clear. The church should not have some special pass in the culture. I don't agree with their theology or their politics. But they have every right to say what they want. They should also be held to account for the law of the land. If they violated it, they will pay the price. BUT... This is not a big deal. All Saints now will just close up shop and reopen under another name with a new 501c(3) charter and PRESTO...we have a new tax exempt status. This is interesting, but it is truly much ado about nothing. -Jim+ |
| cuervoria | Posted: 2006/10/1 13:01 Updated: 2006/10/1 13:01 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/6/15 From: College Station, Texas Posts: 541 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull All S I'm with Joe on this one.
What business has 'Caesar' telling us which charities he approves? We gripe about the Chinese churches having to register with the state, but what's so different here? The rationale for tax exemption is, I believe, the 'free exercise of religion' clause, with the pragmatic understanding that churches undertake good works which the state would otherwise feel obligated to fund. Any constitutional lawyers out there want to help me understand this? de la Cuervoria |
| jimB01 | Posted: 2006/10/1 19:10 Updated: 2006/10/1 19:10 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2004/10/29 From: Posts: 144 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull Tax E For a change, we agree. I think the tax exemption is a bad idea.
FWIW jimB |
| justlookin | Posted: 2006/10/2 10:12 Updated: 2006/10/2 10:12 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2006/8/23 From: Posts: 97 |
Re: PASADENA: Former Episcopalian Says IRS should pull All S Let all churches be free to support any political cause or candidate they like. Let all churches pay taxes like everybody else.
I applaud the IRS. They should do more of these investigation, pull the tax exempt status of many more churches, until the supposed apoliticity of the churches is shown for the sham it is, and the exemption is repealed for all. On an unrelated subject, can anybody explain me what frehao's comment means and how it relates to this article? I'm at a loss. |
