The funny thing is that these jokers actually believe what they say. They have no idea that the Lord God Almighty has given them over to the foolishness of a darkened mind (Romans chapt. 1).

More determination that The Episcopal Church intends to go its own way regardless of the opinions of 90% of the Anglican communion, the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches, conservative Protestantism and conservative Judaism! I am NOT going to part of an institution such as this!

Cennydd

Too bad only a majority of Bishops will sign this statement. TEC is not going to trade the Bible in for the Windsor Report. We are sorry that our slower minded and less evolved colleagues don't grasp what God calls us to do. But we've got Good News to deliver, and can't waste any more time soothing the yokels. And really, wouldn't they be happier if they got a life as well? sheesh. Let's get on with it. The WR has been properly dispensed with. See here:
http://www.wibsite.com/features/windsorreport/

In case you missed Rachel Zoll's AP filed news story: "Episcopal Church approves 'restraint'"

We had a modified version in Jacksonville's Florida Times-Union with additions by Jeff Brumley, leaving out her support of gay and transgendered Christians by the presiding bishop elect. It's not searchable by Google or even on the Jacksonville.com website. Sorry!

"But the Rev. Edward Harrison, a Jacksonville priest who voted in favcor of the resolution, told the Times-Union by telephone the action sends a 'resounding' message that the Epscopal Church is serious about remaining in the Anglican Communion." [Sure they are!]

"Harrison, dean of the St. John's Cathedral downtown [Jacksonville], said the measure buys the denomination and the communion time to continue ironing out their differences. [No it doesn't! It's very clear ECUSA is unrepentant.]

"It may leave open the chance for discussion between leaders of the Episcopal Church and other members of the Anglican Comunion, who are badly at odds over gay clergy. Traditionalists hold that the Bible specifically prohibits gay sex.

"The resolution is unlikely to stop Episcopalians already thinking of doing so from leaving the deonomination, said the Rev. Neil Lebhar, rector of the Redeemer Anglican Church in Jacksonville and the spokesman for the Anglican Alliance of North Florida.

"That's because the measure was not as strongly worded as Anglican primates wanted, Lebhar said.

"'There's no serious repentance at all,' Lebhar told the Times-Union [reporter Jeff Brumley].

"The Jacksonville-based Episcopal Diocese of Florida has seen parts or all of 11 parishes--including Lebhar's--realign themselves with overseas Anglican bishops as a result of Robinson's 2003 election. Altogether, the denomination said it has similarly lost approximately 30 parishes."

--end--

[What's clear from other interviews is that Bishop Howard is intent on keeping all real estate in the hands of the Diocese and out of the hands of parishioners, regardless of the cost.]

Rachel's Zoll's latest updated posting on this:

Episcopal delegates seek "restraint" on electing gay bishops

RACHEL ZOLL
AP Religion Writer

Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold, right, addresses a special session of the Episcopal General Convention at the Greater Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio, Wednesday, June 21, 2006. (AP Photo/Paul Vernon, Pool)

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Conservative and liberal Episcopalians left a national meeting upset by a measure that won last-minute approval asking for restraint on electing more gay bishops.

Conservatives called the General Convention resolution meaningless since it fell far short of demands from top Anglican leaders for a moratorium. Liberals said the call for any restriction, no matter how mild, was offensive to gays — and one bishop vowed to defy it.

But Episcopal leaders said the legislation, however inadequate, was critical to buy time for talks over whether the world's Anglican churches can stay together despite their deep differences over the Bible and gay relationships.

Nevada Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, who will become Episcopal presiding bishop in November, told delegates in the final hours of the meeting Wednesday that she did not like the resolution, since "I am fully committed to the full inclusion of gay and lesbian Christians in this church."

But she said it would give the church a chance to find a "common mind."

The Episcopal Church is the U.S. arm of the world Anglican Communion. Many Anglican leaders were angered by the 2003 consecration of the first openly gay Episcopal bishop, V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire. Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, the communion's spiritual leader, has been trying to broker a truce between conservative and liberal archbishops worldwide ever since.

Williams released a statement Wednesday saying that the "devoted work" of the convention over a nine-day assembly shows how strong its concern is "to seek reconciliation" with Anglicans. Leaders had asked for a much stronger response — a moratorium on choosing gays with same-sex partners to lead dioceses. The resolution that passed is nonbinding.

But Williams said the communion will "need to reflect carefully on the significance of what has been decided before we respond more fully."

American conservatives will be reflecting as well.

The Pittsburgh-based Anglican Communion Network, a group of 10 conservative Episcopal dioceses and more than 900 parishes, is considering splitting from the church and will meet at the end of July to decide its next step.

The Diocese of Fort Worth, Texas, which rejects the ordination of women, has appealed to Williams to be placed under the leadership of another Anglican official because of the election of Jefferts Schori.

Among progressives, a group of 20 bishops issued a statement saying the language in the resolution "too much echoes past attempts by the church to limit participation of those perceived to be inadequate for full inclusion in the ordained ministry."

Bishop John Chane of the Diocese of Washington, D.C., said he would not follow it.

"My own understanding of my responsibility as a bishop is to live into the integrity of my office," Chane said in a statement.

Robinson, the New Hampshire bishop, criticized conservative threats to break away. He said gays and lesbians would not get discouraged by church infighting over their future.

"We have never threatened to leave this church and we're not threatening to do so now," he said. "We love this church and we love the God that we worship in and through the church."

Separately on Wednesday, the convention approved a resolution expressing regret for the church's support of slavery and agreeing to study for three years the possibility of providing some form of reparations. The resolution doesn't make clear who would receive the reparations or what form they might take.

———

On the Net:

Episcopal Church:

http://www.episcopalchurch.org

———

Associated Press writer Andrew Welsh-Huggins contributed to this report

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. [oooo-I'm in violation of copyright laws! So why do they call it a FREE press???]

You're a pathetic loser in a church of pathetic losers.

Go jump in a lake.

You brought up some very good points and funny observations about the state of present day Episcopal clerics.

But why did you have to go on a tangent and delve into anti-Catholicism? The Catholic clergy and its seminaries have undergone a major change to make sure that the abuses of the past will never occur again. (If you want to talk about money being a key motivating factor, how about all the piling-on lawsuits that have been slapped on the church?

Some day the truth will eventually come to light and many of the so-called "victims" were not actually victims, but willing pawns of greedy attorneys. How many good clean priests that have been falsely accused of abuse have been abused by the legal system?

If you're going to say "it's all about money" at least try to be more charitable towards other Christians. There's no room for anti-Catholicism here, especially when conservative Episcopalians and Catholics have more in common than they've had in centuries.

Since Godislove, why have you taken the low road of snipping and denigrating the intelligence of people who don't agree with you?

A truly enlightened Christian using such a moniker wouldn't stoop to the level of practicing the politics of personal destruction. Would he/she/it?

Kemosabe:

Please note from Gal 5:22 " ..... the 'fruit' of the Spirit is love, joy, peace ....."

And their reference: This witness to full inclusion has borne the fruits of the Spirit and is incarnate in the faces and lives around these tables and throughout the Church.

I suggest that one of those "fruits" is the Bishop of New Hampshire.

And maybe the wages of sin "are" death? See Rom 6:23 for the correct quote.

Those are some pretty bold assertions for a bunch of Bps who won't even sign the document, or publicly declare themselves. I'm so ashamed of being Episcopalean today.

GIL's true character, so well known to many of us, is rising to the surface, as it occassionaly does.

Why does the certainty of judgment cause such stress in those who normally revel in self-gratification?

bwaaahhhaaahaaa!!

The bloody leftover almost dead 60's hippies are having their fun in their "church". Gays and lesbians and atheists, oh my!!!

Let them have it!!! The truth is not there anymore and certainly not the Spirit....and anyway they'll be dead soon and then have to answer to an authority higher than us.
My goodness, don't the bishops of ECUSA all have AIDS or STD related illnesses anyway??

Now, you orthodox bishops/rectors still left in - decide - do you serve God or mammon?
Is that pension fund worth bending over for???
Decide quick before your flocks are gone!!

Don't forget, Godislove, what PB-elect Katharine has said. Even slower minded and less evolved colleagues are welcome at God's table. They are to be welcomed by her, by me, by all Episcopalians, including YOU. Yokels are welcome at God's table alongside yourself and everyone else. To make someone feel welcome, you don't want to put them down, or make them feel inferior, do you? What about the Golden Rule? You wouldn't others to make you feel unwelcome, would you?

ALL ARE WELCOME!! ALL ARE EQUAL!! ALL ARE LOVED!! ALL ARE BLESSED!! ISN'T IT WONDERFUL!!!

Tusker

You have nailed one problem. I see this '2nd career' syndrome a great deal at the seminary at the University of the South (oops bad word to them. Make that 'the University of the not quite north'...

And advancing their aging hippie agenda is job 1.

Joe, I've long-since learned not to take anything GIL says seriously. His opinions are meaningless, erroneous, and just plain Obfuscatory Episcobabble. His snide remarks are designed to arouse anger, and his comments give a once-great and highly-respected Episcopal Church a very bad name. I really think that he gets a kick out of arousing people's anger. That's his way of getting his sexual rocks off! He is not a Christian, but a Gnostic.

I look forward to the time when I can get the stink out of my nostrils.

Cennydd

I am NOT going to part of an institution such as this!
-----------------------------------------------------
I sent an e-mail to my diocese today requesting information on how I can formally resign from the ecusa - I do not wanted to be counted among the new elite.

On another note, the orthodox bishops who have been holding out the glove of hope to the orthodox laity had better deliver on promises made. Short of that, the departures in orthodox diocese will rapidly accelerate and be quite nasty because the perception of the orthox laity will rightfully be that these supposedly orthodox bishops have betrayed their flock to preserve unity without Christianity - a group of Trojan horses.

Godislove will never respond to you. He pretends to be a priest but really is just a drive by poster. If he is a priest, then he's just an embarrassment to the cloth and especially to our Lord but he'll never reveal who he really is.
No challenge to him is ever answered, he's a name caller and basically is just around to annoy everyone.

It's interesting to me that for years on VOL the occasional revisionist who posted would sometimes refer to Richard Hooker, great Anglican theologian that he was, in their appeal for their type of Via Media (which was never his type by the way). In their misinterpretation of him their admiration was immense.

And Griswold and others would use isolated quotes from the Fathers for instance to further their anti-Patristic and anti-Christian notions as if the Fathers agreed with them (all completely out of context). Again in their misuse of the Fathers their admiration was second to none.

But now those who admire Hooker and the Fathers are referred to as "slower minded and less evolved". What does that say about the past luminaries?

So these great Christian minds, often misused to futher the revisionist agenda, are now "slower minded and less evolved" too. The admiration and acceptance of revisionists for traditionalists and the "great cloud of witnesses" is overwhelming!

And they dare to assert that everyone is welcome around the table! The "slow minded and less evolved" can commune first of course.

I would place any of those supposedly "slower minded and less evolved" minds up against Griswold, Crew, Spong et al any day. These are their "saints"?

The great Christians of the past, many with extensive educations in philosophy and rhetoric, would eat these so-called theologians alive in a debate if they could ever pin them down to actually use logic that is (something none of us could ever seem to do). And their examples of holiness by contrast make these revisionists look like well the white-washed sepulchres they are.

There can be no affiliation between traditionalists with this "thing" that has evolved.

God bless the realignment!

Neal

Warmac, +Schofield is meeting this weekend with our Standing Committee to discuss a course of action, and my guess is that the Diocese of San Joaquin will follow Bishop Iker's lead. And who knows how many more dioceses will leave? There will be more!

Cennydd

Yokels are welcome at God's table alongside yourself and everyone else.
quote by perelandra
---------------------------------
Here comes Jethro, Jed, and Granny Clampett!
Git that ole rockin chair up on th'truck boy! We's a goin to Killumbus and have our say...I'll set them thar NERds strayt

This can be written, "Today, the TECadaver concluded...."

Teh Episcopal Club works as well, used like, TEClub is conducting a clown....."

Y'all need to pick up on this.

Don

What has +Fort Worth really done? He has called out to the ABC to come and save him. Perhaps +San Joaquin will do the same. Big deal! This problem is not fundamentally about the relationship between the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion, it is about the orthodox in America and their relationship with ECUSA. That is the relationship that is most in need of fixing. When the Network bishops have the courage to make a clean break from ECUSA, then the other churches in the world can form alliances and ecumenical relationships as they choose. I personally could not care less if whatever emerges in North America is in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury. If he wants to choose ECUSA's dollars over his soul that is his choice to make. We can't control what others do, we can only control what we do. The thing to do now is to get out. The Network bishops can either lead the departure or they can stand in the church door and wave goodbye to the orthodox as they depart.

Yes Damascus,

A plea to Canterbury at this point is nothing more than simple statement of intent. ++Rowan is a neuter among neuters.

The simple statement of intent needs now to be backed with decisive action! Here, Ft.Worth has the episcopacy, unlike many of the disenfranchized elsewhere.

All is clear for departure, even with the stage set with Griswold's pastey two-step at the end of Convention!

Consider realignment with the shameful, with a backward glance over your shoulder if you must, BUT MAKE THE DECISION TO GET OUT! THERE IS NO HEALTH WHERE YOU ARE!

Realignment requires that appropriate overSEEers have the separated and disenfranchized out there to PICK UP!

Realignment requires that you leave wanton error behind, and seek to live in a church that is honouring to God and His word.

Shytech74

What is your take on what will be happening in our neck of the woods, Canada?

BHTech

Perelandra wrote:

Don't forget, Godislove, what PB-elect Katharine has said. Even slower minded and less evolved colleagues are welcome at God's table. They are to be welcomed by her, by me, by all Episcopalians, including YOU. Yokels are welcome at God's table alongside yourself and everyone else. To make someone feel welcome, you don't want to put them down, or make them feel inferior, do you? What about the Golden Rule? You wouldn't others to make you feel unwelcome, would you?

ALL ARE WELCOME!! ALL ARE EQUAL!! ALL ARE LOVED!! ALL ARE BLESSED!! ISN'T IT WONDERFUL!!!

To paraphrase a classic Wiccan saying....

BLESSED BE (ALL)

What would you expect from our Presiding Witch ?

ZachD wrote:

Consider realignment with the shameful, with a backward glance over your shoulder if you must, BUT MAKE THE DECISION TO GET OUT! THERE IS NO HEALTH WHERE YOU ARE!

NO ZACHD....REMEMBER LOT'S WIFE !!!!!!!

She it was (Her it was?), whom I was thinking about!
It was she, whom I was thinking about!

The resulotion b 033 is like new year resolution
is just for the day. No diocese is obliged
to obey it.Dioceses will elect gays sodomites
bishops and to promote sodomy,just wait to see.

Quote:

Hi Damascus,

++Iker did not just call out to ABC to save him.

Iker called out to the ABC, Panel of Reference (Parrot mouth piece for the ABC);
AND for the GLOBAL Primates...

I expect nothing but more babbeling from the ABC and his Parrots, more worried about the split than the truth...

The Global Primates are an entirely different matter.
Many of them will not deny Holy Scriptures
Many of them can not be bought for the 30 pcs of silver...

They are the examples of the real men,
because,
Real Men Love Jesus
(and obey the Jesus of the Holy Scriptures,
come in the flesh).

BHTech...
I hate to make forecasts...
However, it seems clear, from what little I've read of Hutchinson over the last while that he is merely a clone of Griswold. So taking that info, and considering the recent bullsh!t that has emerged from HOB meetings...I foresee a near-carbon-copy Synod next year.
Hutchinson steps down, a raging foaming liberal, likely a woman, gets in, same-sex marriage is endorsed, rites are approved, the rest of the world is offended and life carries on.
I hope to be in a position in the small mission I've associated myself with, to be able to rescue a few of the fleeing orthodox. However...I have the distinct impression where I live that there are few orthodox left to escape. The church is so miniscule as it is, and the percentage of actual breathing genuine believers is a tiny percentage of that. They don't know their Bible from a hole in the ground. Sooo...

Of course, I could be wrong, and I sincerely hope so.

Dear Shytech,

I know what you mean in all you say. Sadly with Bill-C38 in place, even Harper may not be able to repeal the law the liberal politicians have set in place.

I fear the ACoC may use this plus what is happening to our brothers and sisters in the US to bolster their case. It's law they will say plus look south. Sigh.

I've already started looking across the Tiber but that is a personal decision.

God Bless

BHTech

re: fleeing ECUSA and calls for immediate action

Although I have renounced being known by the adjective of "Episcopalian", I am somewhat alarmed by precipitate calls to flee. Flee to what? Where?

Before I proceed, I want to note that any advice that follows is also directed at myself.

If one is running from heresy, it is to be hoped that the destination is Truth, in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and a deeper expression of our commitment of our baptismal covenant to "continue in the apostles' teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in the prayers".

Before you pack your bags, consider what you need: nourishment with scriptural (not New Age, heretical) teaching, as handed down to us by the saints, and valid sacraments (administered by a priest or bishop in the Apostolic succession). If you cannot get these essentials where you are, shake the dust of that place off your feet find some catholic church where you can shelter and strengthen yourself as events play out between now and Lambeth.

The Sacred Heart of Jesus (which feast we celebrate tomorrow) will shelter us and bring us holy peace, but on His terms, not ours. The place to encounter Him is, as always, in the Holy Eucharist.

God gave us the gift of time and space. It's a gift because it saves us from the chaos we would experience of everything happening at once. I propose that faithful Christians, including frustrated U.S. orthodox Anglicans, realize this gift and practice the virtue of Patience, allowing events to transpire on God's timetable, not ours.

As hard as it is to wait on the Lord, it is not to our soul's health to behave petulantly toward our faithful Christian leaders who can't fulfill all our demands as fast as we would like, nor hatefully toward those with whom we disagree, be we ever so zealous in our defense of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church.

I'm reminded of a prayer I've heard: "God give me Patience, and give it to me NOW!!!"

Go to Mass, say your prayers, go to confession, and defend the faith, with malice toward none, and charity for all. Remember, when you're pointing your finger at someone else, you have three fingers pointing back at you.

Pray especially for those who have been led astray by the heretical teaching and leadership of the likes of Spong, Schori, and others of that ilk, whether in the USA or elsewhere.

Go in Peace to love and serve the Lord.

At this point if one does not realize that Peter Akinola has his hands on the wheel and foot on the gas pedal then you will likely wonder about what will happen next.

The Forerunner!
http://www.gracecathedral.org/enrichment/crypt/cry_20011114.shtml

BHTech...
Here is some research I've done this evening, absolute claptrap from the Anglican Journal
http://anglicanjournal.com//extra/news.html?newsitem=2006-06-19_sds.news This is Andrew Hutchinson's babble on how wonderful everything is.
Here is the "orthodox" Victoris Matthews waxing eloquent on Schori's election...makes me puke. http://anglicanjournal.com//extra/news.html?newsitem=2006-06-19_z.news

And if these links don't work just go to the Anglican Journal homepage and read all the spin for yourself. Canada is DOOMED.

hmmmlinks are wacky, they bring up 1969 and a blank page, just click on home. Beats me.

Connie:

You must be well-read, few people today would use the word "petulantly" correctly.

I'm not an Episcopalian and I am chagrined to note that I began investigating my Anglican heritage a few years ago and thougth that I might like to join a conservative Episcopal congregation - and then GC2003 happened.

I will say that there is an orthodox and conservative Anglican presence of some kind in most places in this country. I believe in the "one holy catholic and apostolic Church". But even if a cult used to be the Church, it is no longer. The glory of the Lord has passed out of it and the hearts of the leaders of the TEC are darkened.

Pray for a holy and apostolic congregation to worship with.

Don

In an attempt to discern the signs of the times, it would appear that we are either poised for the greatest revival the world has ever experienced, or we are preparing to descend into the chaos preceding Christ's return. What is clear is that the status quo that we in the west have maintained for these many years has forever been shattered.

We can and should learn much from our brothers and sisters who are facing life and death persecution for their faith on a daily basis, and doing so joyfully. Many count themselves exceedingly blessed if they have a Bible and a Prayer Book in their assembly. Yet they are on fire for God, and allowing God to work through them in ways that we in the educated, sophisticated, and civilized west have long since forgotten! We have abundant resources, and many degress, but these Spirit-filled Christians put us to shame. Why? It is neither the lack nor the abundance of resources, but rather it is because they naively believe the Word, and they trust that God is Who He says He is, and that He will do what He says He will do!

Now there's a tip!

God says in Mark 11 that if we do not doubt, but believe in our heart, that He will grant us what we say. The problem is that instead of 'having what we say', we 'say what we have', and then we wonder why nothing changes.

Matt 9:29 is a doubled-edge sword -- "... be it done unto you according to your faith." We tend to assume that means the positive, blessing side. It applies equally to doubt and fear -- "negative" faith, if you will. Deep in our hearts, we don't believe that God will come through -- " . . . be it done unto you according to your faith!"

Many may not like what I'm about to say next, but I offer it up for both time and the community of the faithful to assess. The alphabet soup of the various denominations, and the multitude of break-offs coming from them, are becoming increasingly irrelevant. The Anglican Communion Network, nor the Anglican Communion, nor any of the denominations, will matter much in the times to come. I have the growing sense that God is starting to "undo" all the divisions that man has done over the last 2000 years. This unity will be orchestrated by God, according to HIS plan, and not ours. We are starting to "rewind the tape", back to Rome, back past Rome to the 7 Councils, back past the Councils to Antioch, and eventually back to a Church like what existed in Jerusalem in the first years after Christ's Ascension. I sense the driving force on this reunification will be pressure and persecution. I don't believe denominational differences will matter much when we're sharing the same spiritual foxhole!

The Sovereign God of the Universe has chosen to work through the creative power of belief that He gave us when He created us. I believe that sentiment to be expressed on nearly every page of the Scriptures. I have much to learn about how to apply that in my life, but I sense that we all will be doing a lot of growing in this area.

If we want to walk on water, we have to step out of the boat.

All praise be to the Author and Perfecter of our faith!

JAM

Duplicate post. Please delete the frame.

Thanks!

Quote:

you and me both, Cennydd.

New changes to the Mass will make it closer to the original.

BY MICHAEL P. FOLEY
Wall Street Journal
Friday, June 23, 2006

Last week the U.S. Catholic bishops overwhelmingly approved changes to the wording of the Mass that will significantly affect how Roman Catholics pray. Instead of an expected split vote, the bishops deliberated for only 20 minutes before deciding 173-23 in favor of a new English translation of the Latin Order of the Mass.

The bishops' decision follows decades of displeasure with the current English translation. Drafted in 1970 by the International Committee on English in the Liturgy and in use ever since, the translation has been criticized as banal, uninspiring and inaccurate (one fastidious Latinist counted over 400 errors in the ordinary parts of the Mass alone). A rather straightforward response such as "and with your spirit" (et cum spiritu tuo) was rendered, "and also with you," while entire phrases were omitted or even inserted. In the Roman canon, for example, "a pure Victim . . . a spotless Victim" was ignored and "We come to you Father with praise and thanksgiving" added, the effect being that even the holiest part of the Mass seems more focused on us than on the Sacrifice.

It is difficult to believe that these errors were not intentional (no other translation--Spanish, German, Italian--has had such extensive problems), and indeed, according to some insiders, the committee's decisions were ideologically driven. The Rev. Stephen Somerville, one of the original members of ICEL's Advisory Board, apologized in 2002 for "the bold mistranslations" that "weaken[ed] the Latin Catholic liturgy."

Other former ICEL members have been less contrite. After the Vatican began to address the problem in 2001 with Liturgiam authenticam, its document on the principles of sound translation, Archbishop Daniel Pilarczyk direly prognosticated a "liturgical winter." John Page, a former executive secretary of ICEL, criticized the new procedures for not bringing "the wider Church into the conversation," a curious remark given ICEL's own notoriety for ignoring decades of complaints from pleb and prelate alike.

Today opponents of the new translation cite concern over the effects the changes will have on congregations, which have grown accustomed to ICEL's old renderings. While change can certainly be destabilizing, there is a difference between changing in order to move away from tradition and changing in order to return to it. And it is odd for those who pushed for a radical shift in 1970 to be now making the same arguments about continuity their detractors once did. The current controversy is also interesting because it reveals a fundamental misunderstanding over the nature of liturgical language. The Rev. Lawrence J. Madden, director of the Georgetown Center for Liturgy, dislikes the new and more accurate translation because "It isn't the English we speak. It's becoming more sacred English, rather than vernacular English."

Yet that is precisely the point. When Vatican II permitted translations of the Mass in 1963, it spoke of translating into the "mother tongue," not into everyday speech. Contrary to widespread belief, there has never been a tradition of the vernacular in Christian liturgy, if by "vernacular" you mean the language we speak on the street. Many of the earliest Masses were offered in a language the congregation could understand, but not in the language that could be heard in the marketplace. Before a native language was used in divine worship, it was first "sacralized"--its syntax and diction were gingerly modified, archaisms were deliberately re-introduced and even new rhythmic meters and cadences were invented. All of this was done in order to produce a distinctive mode of communication, one that was separate from garden-variety vernacular speech and capable of relaying the unique mysteries of the Gospel.

Thus, if English is to convey sacred mysteries, there should be a "sacred English." The very word we use for everyday speech, "profane," comes from pro-fano, "outside the temple." If Catholics wish to make the world Christ's temple, as Pope Benedict recently put it, they must first be careful not to make Christ's temple the world.

While the bishops made important progress last week, their improvements fell short of the ideal. Approximately 60 of the proposed changes were rejected, we are told, including the recommendation to replace the nebulous line in the Nicene Creed "one in being with the Father" with the more precise "consubstantial with the Father." According to one report the bishops kept the former version because "'consubstantial' is a theological expression requiring explanation." Quite so, but isn't explaining theological expressions one of the reasons we have priests and bishops?
Since the process is far from over (it could take years before final implementation), Rome may yet prevail in convincing the American liturgical establishment to leave more of its street talk at the temple door. In the meantime, Catholics jaded with all this tinkering to the Mass can be grateful that at least some changes are for the better.

Mr. Foley is a professor of patristics at Baylor University and the author of "Why Do Catholics Eat Fish on Friday?" (Palgrave Macmillan, 2005).

"""Thus saith the Lord God Almighty, "These that claim repentance are deceivers and abominations. Not once have you expressed a truly repentant heart. Not once have you shown your willingness to turn from your wickedness and your blasphemy. You attempt to flatter my other, believing children with words like 'regret' and 'unfortunate pain,' but your heart is far from me. Even when you utter the word 'repentance,' you know not even it's meaning. You speak of repenting for your actions which have pained others of my children who truly believe in my Word. Do you not know that it is I that you have offended? Do you not know that it is MY Word that you have transgressed? Do you not know that it is your sins against ME of which you must repent? You are dead, there is no life within you. You have rejected Me, you have rejected My Son, you have rejected the healing and life-giving Spirit, and yet you fear only for the earthly distress the results have caused you and your little plans. Be gone from me, you are as the inhabitatns of Sodom and Gomorrah. You are the pharisees and sadducees. You will die in your sins, claiming that you have eaten with my Son, that you have served your brothers and sisters in His name. He will turn his back upon you as you stand before the throne of judgment. None of your sins will be forgiven, for you have steadfastly refused to bend your knees in humilty before him. You want, you desire, you lust for the things of which I have commanded you not to eat, and yet you continue to justify yourselves before my throne. Forgiveness is not for those who self-justify, it if for those who throw themselves in humility before the Lamb. Never the less, I have prepared a place for you, too, a place of cold darkness, of blackness darker than any night, of pain like none you have ever felt, of loneliness, separated from my Son and His glory. It awaits those who die unrepentant. It awaits those who die having led others astray. It awaits those who presume to know more than I, their creator. You are fit thereto. Even now, there is a little time for you to repent and throw yourself on the mercy-seat, yet I know that most will disdain even that saving grace. Woe be unto you, scribes and pharisees, woe to you hypocrites and blasphemers. Woe to you and yours. Woe." So saith the Spirit to those who disdain the things of God."""

I've already started looking across the Tiber but that is a personal decision.

BHTech,

I've also been looking across the Tiber, though the reasons go back much farther (and, I think, deeper) than all the recent unpleasantness with +VGR and GC 2003/2006.

In my case the issues have revolved around my readings of the early Church fathers from the first two or three centuries of the Church, which are decidedly much more Catholic than they are Anglican. Like Newman, I came to the conclusion that Anglicanism had gone astray from the Faith from its very beginnings, and that the only choices left were Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Back in the late 90's I had wanted to convert in time for the Jubilee year in 2000 but my wife was (and still is) reluctant, and in the interest of domestic tranquility I have so far remained (most unhappily) in the ECUSA while I watched it descend ever more deeply into heresy. However things have reached a point where I do not think that I can hold my nose any longer.

May God lead you to where He wants you to be.

Is this turning into the ACC discussion thread?

For my 2p worth, I also hope that we will see the clarity in 2007 'TEC' displayed this year. Though the price for this apostasy in souls is so high, and the spiritual oppression so real.

BHTech, will you be at our Synod tomorrow?

Peter

PS In concience I could not swim the Tiber, too many questionalble doctrinal issues for me. Still, in the coming darkness I think we will find what unites us as rather greater than what divides us.

Hi Peter

Sorry I can't make the synod tomorrow but like all we are hoping for a favourable outcome in the election. By the way I don't live too far from where it will be taking place .

On the Tiber bit I have struggled with several issues as I have said on VOL before, but I am slowly beginning to understand where they are coming from. I believe one must be able to take it apart and it must makes sense to be acceptable such as Marian devotion and not worship. Reading authoritative books is also helping me.

What I do know is that when I examine the structure of Anglicanism I can safely conclude it is flawed among other things. In fact I believe Protestantism is flawed as a whole and is not what our Lord meant for his church (See http://www.drbo.org/church.htm).

However, the struggle goes on. Are you driving in from far?

God Bless

BHTech

Dear bcwright

May God lead you to where he wants you to be as well. Its not only Newman its G.K. Chesterton, Muggeridge, and Scott Hann among many others.

I think for me VGR and now GC2006 was the catalyst for me to re-examine my faith. I asked myself why was this happening and in part it has to do with our beginnings and a lack of authorithy. That caused me to examine Protestantism as a whole, and I have conclude its flawed by virtue of private judgement. I can't escape my conclusions so like you there are only two choices left and mine had to do with the fact that my wife is Catholic although she has not influenced me in any direct way.

Everyone must make their own bed as it is a personal decision. The link I gave Peter however, is good. See http://www.drbo.org/church.htm

May God be with you.

BHTech

Hi BHTech,

Actually, I'm not able to go. Apart from anything else there is a Robin Mark conference going on in Bearspaw that my wife is at. In addition, although baptised an Anglican I was then adult baptised in a Baptist type church. I.e., not confirmed an Anglican. I've hesitated a little in being received into this apostate Church, as such I'm not eligible to be a deputy.

However, I do have a keen interest in this election. Drop me a PM if you'd like to know more

Blessings,

Peter

PS Anglicanism flawed? Yes, probably, pretty much like any other human institution. The Church Universal, now that's a different story As I said, as the darkness draws in, these particular doctrinal differences will no longer have the import that they do now. I have a lot more in affinity with some of my Catholic brethren than with many of my fellow Anglicans.

BTW, I did briefly (probably too briefly) read the article you linked. I found it a bit of a strawman, in that it was setting up against sola scripture. That's never, at least for me, been the heart of Anglicanism, although it may touch better on some free churches.

There is as much room for error in trusting to an institution that has it's roots in humankind as there is in private interpretation. In this case, via media is indeed the best way to go IMHO.

GIL
Quote:

Where are the signatures? From what I have read no one has the intestinal fortitude to put their name to the paper and the Bps who stood weren't even totally counted in the HOB. If you can't put your name to the document what does that say for integrity and a show of conscience?
C

oops! maybe they are afraid they won't be invited to Lambeth if ABC finds out who they are.

Me and my family are swimming the Tiber. I love the Orthodox and orthodox Anglo-Catholocism, but there is no such place in my local community ... We decided that you have to distinguish between the important things and the not important things at this point. The RC Church teaches the Creed. The RC church believes in the sacraments. Sure they have problems, but I think that given the solidity in the faith and authority, it is a better place to work for reform. The RC Church does not teach errors such that will lead to eternal damnation. I can not say the same for ECUSA unfortunately. Most Orthodox would admit the same about RCism. The Patriarch of Const. holds out hope that they will acheive unity that would allow for full communion in the near future. Pope Benedict is working hard on Christian unity. The leadership in these churches is on the right track... and both are interested in providing a place for the uniqueness of our tradition. I don't see how the orthodox Anglicans are going to be able to work together anyway, they are divided on so many levels.

Etagert said "Me and my family are swimming the Tiber. "

Race you .

God Bless

BHTech

I was raised an Anglican and after many years returned to my home. Over the last 13 years it has become apparent the Episcopal Church has completely lost its way. It is one thing to accept sinners, for I surely have earned that title, into the church and help them deal with living in both the city of god and the city of man. However acceptance into the communion is vastly different than sanctifying clearly unbiblical behavior. None of us would condone the consecration of an adulturer or a thief, and yet that is what is happening. The ordination of homosexuals is the same, we accept them into the church to deal with the paradox that plagues us all - the demands of faith and the reality of behavior - and not to be placed in leadership positions to act as role models.

I left the Episcopal Church 10 years ago and found grace with the Anglican Catholic Church. We are not challenged by trying to interpret god's word in this politically correct world - our challenge is to live the life that has been clearly set before us in an environment hostile to practizing christians.
My prayers are with the orthodox members of TEC, may you find a new home of faith or stop the slow march to irrelevance of an once great denomination.
Morgan

It has always been my experience that the Network bishops all publicly sign their correspondence.

What's up with the chicken-wimp revisionists? I guess they don't want the Global South or the AB of C to know who is truly thumbing their nose at Windsor.

Obviously, the kids have broken out of the nursery and are really starting to irritate the adults...

All blessings,

Philippa

The Diocese of Nflorida's Queen of the Cathedral, -Eddie Harrison- celebrating Vicki's "win". i still remember Eddie working on cross word puzzles during convention...

"But the Rev. Edward Harrison, a Jacksonville priest who voted in favcor of the resolution, told the Times-Union by telephone the action sends a 'resounding' message that the Epscopal Church is serious about remaining in the Anglican Communion." [Sure they are!]

"Harrison, dean of the St. John's Cathedral downtown [Jacksonville], said the measure buys the denomination and the communion time to continue ironing out their differences. [No it doesn't! It's very clear ECUSA is unrepentant.]

Thank you for posting MLenninger.