GC2006 : COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay
COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay
News Analysis
By Peter Toon
VirtueOnline Correspondent
www.virtueonline.org
6/22/2006
The seed of the New Episcopal Religion [NER] was planted in the late 1960s and since then it has been growing and producing ever more foliage, flowers and fruit from one General Convention [GC] to another. In fact every three years the GC has fed and watered this plant abundantly so that it is strong and vibrant.
The 75th GC at Columbus, Ohio, in mid June 2006 has been no exception to this practice of modern Episcopalians paying devoted attention to the developing of the NER. Indeed, this assembly has watered and fed the plant richly, with devoted determination, and in a variety of intentional ways. To use its own preferred phrases, this GC has continued "to live into" the developing NER as it has continued "the process of" attending to both the "Windsor requests" and its own preferred themes of peace, justice and the dignity of all persons.
Examples of the particular attention to the growth of this plant by the GC have are now well known to the church and world - the appointment of a radical, female Presiding Bishop to be the Head Gardener for nine years; commitment to "the Windsor process" on terms which affirm the Anglican Communion and also celebrate the lives of Gay and Lesbian Christians who live in this American garden; the approval of a thrice-married man with a twice married wife to be new Head Gardener (Bishop) of the Diocese of Northern California; the approval of a whole set of liturgies and prayers for moments of transition in the pilgrimage of life, and a host of Resolutions of social, political and economic matters informed by the commitment to "peace and justice" and "the dignity of all persons."
Let us be clear. Not all members of the GC are wholly committed to the NER for there is a small minority which is opposed. Yet it was very clear from the evidence of the public liturgies, the work of committees, the debates and voting of the House of Deputies and of the House of Bishops, that a majority is committed to the NER and will continue to cherish and nurture this plant into the foreseeable future. So we may expect, especially under the new female Head Gardner, that, even if there are strong protests and condemnations from provinces of the Anglican Communion, the nurture of this plant will certainly continue . The number of active Episcopalians may diminish before the new GC, but this plant will grow for it is the only plant that the Head Gardener and her assistants cherish and will care for.
In the light of the continued growth of this plant of the NER, the minority of conservatives left in the Episcopal Church are asking each other what they should do. We may recall that this kind of question has been asked at and after each General Convention since 1976 and, answering it, has led to a variety of schisms to form Continuing Anglican Churches. From what we have heard said by the representatives of The American Anglican Council and The Anglican Communion Network, it appears that they are taking the position of staying as the "orthodox, minority church" within the whole Episcopal Church, and saying: "We have not left the Anglican Way, it is they who have done so; thus we shall stand firm and await recognition and help from Primates and Provinces of the Anglican Communion abroad." Whether this is practicable only time will tell.
However, for some conservatives the full flowering of the NER at this GC is too much to bear, and they are looking to exit - maybe to Rome, or to Orthodoxy, or to the Anglican Way outside the Episcopal Church. In fact, with reference to the latter, it has been suggested that now is the time for the Continuing Anglican Churches, with the Reformed Episcopal Church and the Anglican Mission in America, to be actively looking for prospective new congregations and members from amongst those who decide to have nothing more to do with the NER and its female Head Gardiner. At the same time, this is also a time for the Continuing Churches to find ways to work together and to present a united front for dynamic orthodoxy [the Traditional Episcopal Religion] as a vivid contrast to the NER of the Episcopal Church of the USA.
Another scenario that needs to be asked is this: Have orthodox ECUSA bishops made the correct choice by staying, and once again just limiting their actions to making some statements. The Episcopal Church is now an abomination. No further evidence is required.
To stay - rather than declare themselves the true branch of the Anglican Communion in the U.S. - is either the product of moral cowardice (pensions-status-looking to retirement,etc) or monumental stupidity.
END
The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.
| Poster | Thread |
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| drcribbage | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:26 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:26 |
Not too shy to talk   Joined: 2006/3/3 From: Posts: 39 |
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stayIt really doesn't matter what "Rev." Toon says -- he is part of the problem. Toon IS ecusa, no matter what he writes!
He speaks of True Anglicanism, etc., but he will NEVER leave ecusa! PENSIONS!! He is just another egotistical clown from Canterbury. Oxford must have a required course in Arrogance! Most Continuing Anglican clergy don't even get paid, let alone have PENSIONS! Toon is NOT the True Anglican Church. He IS ecusa. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:26 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:26 |
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Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay To stay - rather than declare themselves the true branch of the Anglican Communion in the U.S. - is either the product of moral cowardice (pensions-status-looking to retirement,etc) or monumental stupidity.
I think he needs to make himself just a little bit more clear. Waddaya think? |
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| DnNeal | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:28 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:28 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Quote:
Another scenario that needs to be asked is this: Have orthodox ECUSA bishops made the correct choice by staying, and once again just limiting their actions to making some statements. The Episcopal Church is now an abomination. No further evidence is required. To stay - rather than declare themselves the true branch of the Anglican Communion in the U.S. - is either the product of moral cowardice (pensions-status-looking to retirement,etc) or monumental stupidity. Dr. Toon is definitely no moral coward. Well said. But surely the traditionalist Bishops are not thinking of staying in for very long. Surely they must be working toward realignment and soon. If not then they will be abandoned eventually as well. I pray for well-reasoned, well-developed action as soon as possible. The TEC Is an abomination. Neal |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:28 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:28 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay NO, Dr Toon, we are NOT staying in The Episcopal Church! I don't know who you've been talking to, but it sure as Hell isn't the orthodox Anglicans in the pews! You, sir, are DEAD WRONG! If you don't believe me, ask Bishops Iker and Schofield. +John-David has scheduled a meeting with the Standing Committee in just a few days. Don't assume anything until the bishops have acted....and they will, I assure you!
Cennydd |
| DnNeal | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:30 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:30 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay drcribbage
Do you know something I don't? I only know a few things about Dr. Toon from what I have read. Is there more to the story that I'm missing? Is it simply because he is still in ECUSA? Or is it something else? Neal |
| revmark | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:31 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:31 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2006/5/27 From: Posts: 22 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Absolutely right on target! Thank you Peter Toon for speaking the truth. Especially your last paragraph about "moral cowardice" or "monumental stupidity". Where is a Luther, Cranmer, Latimer or Ridley now that we so desperately need them in leadership roles. May the Holy Spirit guide us and lead through men and women of faith and courage.
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| drcribbage | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:38 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:38 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2006/3/3 From: Posts: 39 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Toon is an ecusa/coe priest. Has he ever left? No.
The AMiA is NOT considered as a Continuing Anglican Church. They ordain women and use the 1979 BCP. Toon likes them because they are reformed protestants -- and not Anglo - Catholics (enemies of Toon). |
| yaya2 | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:43 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:43 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2006/6/12 From: Arkansas Posts: 29 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay I agree that "for some conservatives the full flowering of the NER at this GC is too much to bear, and they are looking to exit......" , but I am extremely concerned that some of the conservatives will be lulled into an apathetic sleep when their NER bishops and priests give their spin on this GC.
The news media gave the GC some coverage, but there are many conservatives that will never "dig" into the truth of the GC and only hear what CNN had to report. This information gave a lukewarm account of the fire that actually consumed those in attendance and those caring enough to spend back numbing hours on this blog and other conservative blogs. If only there were some way to capsulize these blogs and mail them to each member of every local parishes. I can just visualize the NER bishops and priests with heads together planning how to present their evil words and deeds in a manner that "John and Jane Sitting-on-the-Fence" can accept and continue on to the next Sunday coffee hour held in their churches of Sardis. |
| AnnJoan | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:48 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:48 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2006/6/22 From: Posts: 1 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay With these statements we might as well all call it quits. Who can you trust now?
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/6/22 17:53 Updated: 2006/6/22 17:53 |
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Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay The AMiA is NOT considered as a Continuing Anglican Church. They ordain women
I believe that the AMiA is committed to finding a "place" for women which have already been ordained, yet has determined that they will not ordain any more women priests; deaconesses, yes. But no women priests. |
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| lloyd | Posted: 2006/6/22 18:15 Updated: 2006/6/22 18:15 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/6/22 From: Posts: 9 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay After following the politics of the ECUSA GC and reading between the lines it is really starting to look like the ECUSA is about to be ex-communicated; or, in the more polite Anglican vernacular, "separated from the communion". Some primates are now considering a "structural" response to the GC resolution B0..something, something.
The politicking that occured at GC with the PB and PBE was, I think, an attempt to placate several Bishops who have secretly vowed to remove their dioceses from the ECUSA if certain resolutions were not passed - you can see a list of them at americananglican.org. Serious stuff... |
| uacinneide | Posted: 2006/6/22 18:25 Updated: 2006/6/22 18:25 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2006/6/20 From: Posts: 6 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Yes, now is the time for the Orthodox minority to decide to leave - staying on is no longer an option.
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| lloyd | Posted: 2006/6/22 18:33 Updated: 2006/6/22 18:33 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/6/22 From: Posts: 9 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Well, I could be wrong about it, but it really does look like it's happening as we speak. They just aren't doing it publicly...not yet. A newspaper in England has reported some insider info suggesting that at least 3 U.S. Bishops are threatening to pull their dioceses out. If true, this has huge consequences for ECUSA; legally called the Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society, because their claim to the property of a diocese is not NEARLY as solid as their claim to parish property. Big money involved here.
I think that's why Griswold, et al went to such lengths to get a resolution passed, practically begging the Deputies to go along with it. On top of that, primates (I think in Africa) released a statement saying that they were considering what kind of "structural" response to make to the resolution. Yes, I think the ECUSA should be ex-communicated with the departing dioceses being given communion straight away. my two cents |
| Damascus | Posted: 2006/6/22 18:34 Updated: 2006/6/22 18:34 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/9/26 From: Republic of Karelia Posts: 640 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay The situation in the Episcopal Church reminds me a lot of the classic movie The Caine Mutiny. You have a ship that is foundering in a storm and you have leadership that is incapable of dealing with the situation. One of the officers of the ship (the character played by Fred McMurray) talks to the other officers and convinces them that one of them needs to relieve the commander in order to save the ship. The character played by Van Johnson who is the senior officer on board apart from the captain, does in fact take over the ship. He is subsequently charged with mutiny and the Fred McMurray character refuses to back him in court for fear of being held culpable in the mutiny.
How does this relate to ECUSA and the Network? I am beginning to fear that our Network bishops are a lot of Fred McMurrays when what we really need are more Van Johnsons. What is the point of stirring up the crew to mutiny if when the critical moment comes, the leaders hesitate. Van Johnson was not initially enthusiastic about taking command but with the support of his fellow officers and believing it was the right thing to do, he acted and was willing to face the consequences. I hope that Dr. Toon is wrong in his assessment of the Network bishops but it is up to them to prove him wrong. None of the Network bishops is so stupid that they honestly believe that ECUSA can be saved from the inside. If they fail to act, the only explanation will be cowardice. |
| lloyd | Posted: 2006/6/22 18:44 Updated: 2006/6/22 18:44 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/6/22 From: Posts: 9 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Yes, I saw that movie. Excellent parallel! The Captain was NUTZ! (Humphrey Bogart, I think).
Anyway, I think you're exactly right. Ex-communication would be the best thing at this point. Whatever dioceses or parishes would like to rejoin the Anglican Communion could be allowed to do so and an Anglican Covenant could be written to help avoid this in the future. Right now, forget about the reganant controversy, the ECUSA is engaging in what I think is sinful, schismatic behavior by defying the implied spiritual authority of the Communion. Thats what bothers me the most. After this controversy passes from the headlines what will be next? It will never end unless the larger Church ends it now. |
| DnNeal | Posted: 2006/6/22 18:57 Updated: 2006/6/22 19:38 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay drcribbage,
Thanks for answering my question. Neal |
| Anglophile | Posted: 2006/6/22 19:15 Updated: 2006/6/22 19:15 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2005/7/6 From: Rochester,NY Posts: 149 |
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to staydrcribbage, you top steve(godlovesmebest etc) in assine and inaccurate posts! The Revd. Dr. Toon is Anglican as he is English Church ordained (and trained). Further he has consistently challanged both ecusa (TEC) and the Biblicaly centered orthodox on acceptance of the '79 Prayer Book. Himmmm, "Oxford", do I detect insecurity and jealousy on you part? I am a member of a Continuing Anglican Church and Fr. Toon is very highly thought of. What contribution pray tell have you made to either side? How do you know whether or not he will leave? You seem to know so little about him(and what do do "know" is filtered through anger and temper), I would use you as a contrary indicator. Go take an aspirn, midol or laxative and I hope you feel better.
 |
| DnNeal | Posted: 2006/6/22 19:38 Updated: 2006/6/22 19:38 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Anglophile
Thanks. Neal |
| hemphill | Posted: 2006/6/22 19:59 Updated: 2006/6/22 19:59 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/5/20 From: Posts: 12 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay In Matthew Ch. 5, Jesus states: "11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men." A fellow Christian and noted geologist once told me that salt - in and of itself - never loses its salty taste or ability to retard decay. However, obviously the more the salt is diluted then it ceases to serve any purpose at all. I left ECUSA back in 2000 after much internal struggle and "laity" action on my part. I still keep abreast often of what is happening in ECUSA. As it was back in 2000 is even more evident today - the "orthodox" bishops, clergy and laity continue to get trampled. They have lost all "saltiness" and continue to be steamrolled and overwhelmed by this NER. Their frequent "statements" and open letters in support of Jesus Christ and orthodoxy - while once viewed with applause by me, generally mean little anymore - especially without action. Given the NER, I do not understand how the "ECUSA orthodox" can still be yoked with this new religion - which is anything but the Good News of Jesus Christ. That is my 2 cents, |
| Harriett | Posted: 2006/6/22 20:09 Updated: 2006/6/22 20:09 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/4/27 From: Posts: 5 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Anaglophile,
Google the Prayer Book Society for The Rev Dr Toon's articles... also he writes as a columnist for virtueonline. When you know him you will respect him highly. |
| Harriett | Posted: 2006/6/22 20:14 Updated: 2006/6/22 20:14 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/4/27 From: Posts: 5 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay anaglophile... sorry. wanted to thank you for correcting drcribbage. I justwent to sleep in the inbetween time. Dr. Toon in my opinion always has worthy thoughts.
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| Gideon_FL | Posted: 2006/6/22 20:23 Updated: 2006/6/24 13:05 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/8/25 From: SW FL Posts: 169 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay drcribbage wrote: The AMiA is NOT considered as a Continuing Anglican Church. They ordain women and use the 1979 BCP.
You do not know what you are writing about. AMiA does NOT require use of ANY particular worship book or service, and has NEVER ordained a woman to be a priest. Are all of your posts this full of factual errors? Faithfully, Gideon |
| OtisPage | Posted: 2006/6/22 20:39 Updated: 2006/6/22 20:41 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 667 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Toon's New Episcopal Religion [NER], once called ECUSA, now formally referred to as The Episcopal Church (TEC), has transitioned from a true Christian Church to an aberrant Christian sect based on homosexual precepts (Episcopal Leader: Homosexuality Not a Sin).
The sect dimisses ties with the true "faith once given", into relativistic beliefs that redefines Christ's ministry (Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ), proposes changes to the Scriptures (MODIFYING THE BIBLE TO SUPPORT HOMOSEXUALITY), and changes the Scriptural relevation and context of the person of Jesus Christ (Bishop Katherine celebrates transgender Jesus). The General Convention of 2006 has officially culminated in the death of a once great religion in the United States. Let the Saints be warned. It is time to move on or be trapped in a lie. Legal efforts should be formalized to protect church assets, trust funds and pension of those leaving this ecclesiastical disaster. |
| drcribbage | Posted: 2006/6/22 21:05 Updated: 2006/6/22 21:05 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2006/3/3 From: Posts: 39 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay As I stated before, Toon is a member of the ecusa/tec/coe "anglican communion".
Therefore, he and any other so - called orthodox clergy are apostates. That is not difficult to comprehend. I'm not breaking any new ground here. In fact, he (Toon) once stated that one cannot be a "true" Anglican without being in communion with Canterbury. That's utterly ridiculous. Also, the AMiA is not regarded as being a Continuing Anglican Church. |
| Santeez | Posted: 2006/6/22 21:33 Updated: 2006/6/22 21:36 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/2/10 From: Colorado Posts: 3 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Correction, AMiA does not Ordain woment priests, like many Episcopal parishes it does use the 79 Prayer book if it so chooses, I left the Episcopal Ch, for AMiA 2 years ago amd couldn't be happier, A Church of Anglicans who love the Lord and his word. I Thank the Lord daily for the blessing.
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| drcribbage | Posted: 2006/6/22 21:41 Updated: 2006/6/22 21:44 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2006/3/3 From: Posts: 39 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Re: AMiA
Deacons ARE ordained clergy. The AMiA ordains women deacons. Although I'm perpetually amused by the funny shenanigans of ecusa/tec (or whatever it's called), I have also found that many people who post here are not very orthodox nor traditional! I hope and pray that the Lord will guide us all to the truth. |
| Truthseekr | Posted: 2006/6/22 21:41 Updated: 2006/6/22 21:41 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/14 From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru ) Posts: 784 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Hi Hemphill,
with your view from the outside by an ex ecusan, would tell us which denomination you went to, and the advantages that attracted you, and the potential issues you have seen since you got there... thx truthseekr |
| Truthseekr | Posted: 2006/6/22 21:48 Updated: 2006/6/22 21:48 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/14 From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru ) Posts: 784 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay dear drcribbage,
it seems your often more posting, concerning WO, and trying to deny the use of the term conservative or anglican, than anything else... Is it just my perespective in error, or, is your main HOT button the women ordained deacon issue? not trying to pick a fight, just curious... truthseekr |
| rossi | Posted: 2006/6/22 22:02 Updated: 2006/6/22 22:02 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Redcar, England Posts: 639 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Remember what Akinola told the leaders of the
Network at the Network Convention in Pittsburgh, they must decide in which side they want to be. The time to decide is now. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/6/22 22:17 Updated: 2006/6/22 22:17 |
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Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Today's Gosepl reading, Matthew 10:35-39
34 Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And as a man's enemies shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for me, shall find it. God Bless BHTech |
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| Seminole | Posted: 2006/6/22 22:44 Updated: 2006/6/22 22:44 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2006/6/22 From: North Florida Posts: 23 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Why did they ordain women in the first place. It is a little late to lock the barn door once the horses are out. The ACN is no better. They accept priestesses and use the 79 book (I will not dignify it by calling it a prayer book.) None of these are any better than ECUSA and down the road they will have the same problems as did ECUSA.
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| Gideon_FL | Posted: 2006/6/22 23:34 Updated: 2006/6/24 13:08 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/8/25 From: SW FL Posts: 169 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Truthseekr,
I must agree with your analysis regarding drcribbage's HOT button. As far as I know, there has never been an ordination of any woman in the AMiA. In a few cases, under extraordinary circumstances, women who were ministers or deacons were received as deacons, but I am ignorant if there have been (or ever will be) ordinations. If someone has FACTS to the contrary, please post. Although I'm not in AMiA now, I was for five years and many of the Christians I respect and admire most have chosen the AMiA's 'preferred future' (not the continuing churches' preferred past). (Note added later: atrent disagrees with the prior paragraph suggesting there is currently ordination of women to the diaconate in AMiA) And a second request. Can the good drcribbage or anyone else point me to the biblical basis for rejecting women from the servanthood ministry of the deaconate? Again, excuse my ignorance, but in all my time reading through the WO stuff it seems to focus on headship and the priestly duties, neither of which pertains to the biblical understanding of "deacon". (note - I take the meaning of 'a husband of one wife' as excluding divorce and/or polygamy, but not to mean excluding single men or women. see, for example, http://www.1928bcp.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=237 Faithfully, Gideon |
| MichaelA | Posted: 2006/6/22 23:40 Updated: 2006/6/22 23:40 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/5/29 From: Posts: 869 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Interesting daily gospel reading...right on the money!
Drcribbage, first a point from scripture: I seem to recall that deaconesses are mentioned in the New Testament? Second, a point of scriptural principle - the Bible seems to say that the issue with women in ministry is headship or leadership at a high level, basically of a congregation. How does ordaining deaconesses contradict this principle? Women in positions of ministry, particularly practical ministry, seem to be featured in the New Testament, are they not? Regards Michael |
| Compline | Posted: 2006/6/23 0:24 Updated: 2006/6/23 0:24 |
Quite a regular   Joined: 2006/6/22 From: USA Posts: 63 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay I must confess that I rather enjoy the writings of reporter Hans Zeiger better than Mr Toon.
However this article is not too bad. The problem is that years past liberal swill was swallowed, in small draughts at first, and today we see the inevitable results of those first quaffings of the evil brew. Christendom has been under attack, from within and without, for some time. The success of this concerted effort has been quite remarkable. Our societies now reflect anything but a Christian world view. Out of societies dedicated to the Pleasure Principle a church's members and clergy are drawn. The hour is so very late and yet who among us could not have foreseen the ultimate consequences of going along with the world's concept of "morality" of "justice"? To cling to the Common Book of Prayer as it was, rather than the 1979 abomination, to cling to the Gospels, as they are, whether "anti-semitic" as the GC:2006 accused them of being or not, to adhere to scripture and not ordain women these are the "outmoded" ways of those "out of step" with today's times. Yet these are our ways, we who know that our Redeemer liveth, we who know that the Bible is our moral compass not the fashions or political correctness of the day. Salvation is our major and utmost concern not whether we are admired by a society that is so sick and unwholesome. The Anglican Communion must at once cut off the ECUSA and if the Archbishop of Canterbury does not then genuine Christians of the Anglican faith must find a communion that does, truly, believe in God. |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2006/6/23 0:36 Updated: 2006/6/23 0:37 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay I must remind you all that the Episcopal Church once had an order for women, and it was called the Order of Deaconess. The Church gradually phased out the order in the 1940s, I believe. This was a servant order....as is the diaconate. There were times....especially with regard to deaconesses in the Church of England....when they were considered to not be in Holy Orders, and there were times when they were.
Women deacons....ordained or not....are therefore not new in the Anglican timeline. In light of this, I have no problem at all with women deacons....but I draw the line at women priests and bishops. Cennydd |
| atrent | Posted: 2006/6/23 0:43 Updated: 2006/6/23 0:43 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/6/9 From: Posts: 6 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay CennyDD,
Im with you. Br. Adam |
| Gayle | Posted: 2006/6/23 0:58 Updated: 2006/6/23 0:58 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Posts: 11 |
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stayQuote:
If only there were some way to capsulize these blogs and mail them to each member of every local parish. I've been thinking about that. I'm getting some more money back from Uncle Sam then I thought I was. (I always file extensions.) I have been thinking about setting aside a few hundred dollars for printing/paper. I would like to put together some "white papers" detailing Schori background, Bible passages, decline in membership since 1965, what Spong teaches and believes...I'm open for ideas, etc. I could run off a master from my beloved laptop, go down to "we print cheap" run off a few hundred flyers and go around to the various parish parking lots in my diocese and put them on cars. I might even feel like a road trip or two. Anyone else game? |
| frcochran | Posted: 2006/6/23 1:13 Updated: 2006/6/23 1:14 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Generally speaking the Anglican Continuum Churches adhere to the Affirmation of St. Louis. Do a Google search it is easy to find, and it is easy to find its history.
Also, one quick question for all the "orthodox" Anglicans that support women deacons. If a woman can receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders to become a deacon, then why can't she receive the sacrament of Holy Orders to become a priest or bishop and what theological principle do you cite in your answer and what is the precedent? This will be graded so we need to know your sources. I say it is sacrilege across the board. I apologize, this was more than a quick question. John+ |
| frcochran | Posted: 2006/6/23 1:28 Updated: 2006/6/23 1:30 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Here are the answers:
If there is no reason a woman cannot be a deacon, then there is no reason she could not occupy the other offices of Holy Orders (1 Timothy). There is no Christian theological principle that says sacrilege is acceptable in any instances. The precedent for women's ordination can only be found in the ancient 3rd century heretical sect known as Sabellinaism (A History of Christianity--Latorette, p. 141). I certainly would not want to find that common ground with that heresy. I hope to read varying opinions. John+ |
| CalAggie | Posted: 2006/6/23 1:38 Updated: 2006/6/23 1:38 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2006/4/9 From: Davis, CA Posts: 156 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Well, I took the same reasoning you mentioned. If a women could receive the sacrament in being a deacon or a priest, then what would prevent her from being a bishop. Paul spoke of several women who were leaders of congregations and he said nothing ill of them. Further, Mary Magdalene was a key disciple of Christ and discovers his tomb without him. And, Mary, Jesus' mother, was the first of his disciples, beieving before he was born. I have some reservations with women in ordained positions, mostly dealing with their ability to convey strong leadership and confidence. I have met few women who can preach the gospel with the same conviction men give. What would be the role of women in this significantly larger breakaway group after this convention?
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| quissum | Posted: 2006/6/23 1:49 Updated: 2006/6/23 1:49 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/2/18 From: Posts: 337 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay New circumstances call for new terms. How about the GAYPISCOPALIAN CHURCH? Or, perhaps the GAIAPISCOPALIAN CHURCH, (i.e. "Gaia" as in Mother Earth)?
Why do the nations rage, and the leaders take counsel together against the LORD and against His Anointed? They say 'Come, let us cast away Their bonds from us!' He that sits in the heavens laughs; the LORD has them in derision (Psalm 2: 1-4, paraphrased) |
| russedav | Posted: 2006/6/23 1:53 Updated: 2006/6/23 2:03 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/8 From: Ft. Wayne, IN Posts: 274 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay "To stay - rather than declare themselves the true branch of the Anglican Communion in the U.S. - is either the product of moral cowardice (pensions-status-looking to retirement,etc) or monumental stupidity."
As I've said before, it is sometimes difficult to tell the difference between the new Episcopal Religion and the self-professed "orthodox" considering the rampant Biblical illiteracy abounding on all sides. Peter Toon's above unhelpful comments about fleeing are arrogant, ironically quite antiBiblical (Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.), and fly directly in the face of Church history that shows conclusively that groups that split off churches that move away from orthodoxy are no lmore likely to remain orthodox themselves, as is readily seen in the field of debris of thousands of denominations and splits and fractures and splinters that is the heritage of proud "protestants" with Rome giving them a run for their money except being more surreptitions in her schisms (e.g. the St. Pius X Society) like they are in their countless divorces they pretend are anulments. How someone "married" for decades with five grown children can have their marriage "anulled" is most interesting! The fact that Southern Baptist "conservatives" were able to take back their denomination from the "liberals," but only after years of effort, puts the lie to the idea that fleeing must be the right idea any more than the idea of easy divorce, an exact parallel for what the so-called "orthodox" are proposing is an exact revisiting of the old liberal lie that everyone is happier if you just divorce and remove the tension from the house, something since resoundlngly disproved by decades of sociologial data that had to be compiled by rebellious family-destroying obscenities too arrogant and bigoted to even read much less take seriously Malachi 2:16's Word of God: "I HATE DIVORCE!" But of course, like the sodomites, the orthodox have the new "holy spirit" that has shown them a better way, that God doesn't really hate divorce, so long as it's on the corporate level the better to disguise our rejection of God's Perfect Word to do our own thing of our Sinatraism religion: "I did it MY WAY!" I can't help but wonder what will be said to God at the judgment about such a notion. |
| russedav | Posted: 2006/6/23 2:16 Updated: 2006/6/23 2:20 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/8 From: Ft. Wayne, IN Posts: 274 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay CalAggie
"Well, I took the same reasoning you mentioned. If a women could receive the sacrament in being a deacon or a priest, then what would prevent her from being a bishop. Paul spoke of several women who were leaders of congregations and he said nothing ill of them. Further, Mary Magdalene was a key disciple of Christ and discovers his tomb without him. And, Mary, Jesus' mother, was the first of his disciples, beieving before he was born. I have some reservations with women in ordained positions, mostly dealing with their ability to convey strong leadership and confidence. I have met few women who can preach the gospel with the same conviction men give. What would be the role of women in this significantly larger breakaway group after this convention?" As is usual, feminists are Biblically illiterate. Deborah makes very clear in Judges 4:9 that her leadership was for the SHAMING of the spineless men of Israel:"...I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest SHALL NOT BE FOR THINE HONOR; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a WOMAN." proving Deborah an enemy of feminism Isaiah 3:12 makes it very clear that women leaders are ERROR@: (As for] my people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. ) , and St. Paul apostolically prohibits women from having authority over men in 1 Timothy 2:12 "which becometh women professing godliness) with good works 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve." One of the best websites pointing out the errors of feminism in trashing the Bible to extablish antiBiblical leadership is www.cvbmw.org. |
| Churchcat | Posted: 2006/6/23 2:31 Updated: 2006/6/23 2:55 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2004/11/15 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay AMiA does not ordain women. They have a lengthy writing about the subject. I'm not able to make a link (because I can't figure out how to) but it's on their site. (Newish to computers.)
Now about the above posts: Women weren't doing much in Biblical times because they were busy with children. Women weren't doing any of the things they are clearly capable of (Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, ...name any occupation) Women weren't educated like they are now. I'm sorry but I really have a hard time excluding women on DNA alone. It's not a sin to be a woman. Opinion is another thing. Jeffords-Schori imho should be disqualified by her opinions and statements. (Mother Jesus...a Variety of Theologies!) Now no need to blast me out of the water, I'm willing to be convinced (in all gentleness of course.) But Just because Paul said that he didn't allow something doesn't mean it's not allowed. He didn't want preachers working for tithes. He wanted them to be self supporting. We don't make our priests "make tents" or have other careers. |
| Santeez | Posted: 2006/6/23 3:28 Updated: 2006/6/23 3:28 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/2/10 From: Colorado Posts: 3 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay The web address for AMiA is:
WWW.Anglicanmission in america.org |
| frcochran | Posted: 2006/6/23 3:54 Updated: 2006/6/23 4:03 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Thank you to all who gave their opinions. I have a couple of comments then I will drop it.
The use of the word διάκονος does not necessarily mean "ordained ministry." If it did then the practice of ordaining women, logically, would have been the case in the early Church and it would have continued unabated to this day. It did not because it did not mean ordained ministry in the instance of Phoebe cited earlier. I do not find it plausible that women's ordination to the diaconate (Holy Orders) somehow became a lost practice of Christianity. Setting women apart as lay parish servants is another matter. For example, serving on a vestry today is a ministry but hardly ordained ministry. I believe that Justin Martyr's Apologia confirms this belief [of mine]. The sad reality is that women's ordination is TEC's (formerly known as ECUSA) modern revival of a practice enjoined previously only by heretics. I find very little irony in this. I have said enough, and bored everyone way too much. John+ |
| ICXCNIKA | Posted: 2006/6/23 4:34 Updated: 2006/6/23 4:34 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 82 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Frcochran...This is an interesting topic, and one that I never mind jumping into. Although I am strongly opposed to WO, the fact exists that there were female deacons (East and West) in the Early Church...as a matter of fact there were deaconesses in the some areas of the Eastern Church until the 11th century. If you need evidence then use Google once again on this subject; for example St. John Chrysostom wrote many letters to his female deaconess (St. Olympia) in Constantinople. Now, it is also evident that deaconesses had NOTHING to do with the Litury and Eucharist in the Church. Their capacity was one of visiting the sick, and also aiding in the baptism of female members.
Then why can't women be priests? The Early Church was far ahead of the surrounding world in accepting the place and importance of women in society, and it brought in a multitude of women converts because of it. These women were influential and some were mentioned in Scripture, YET none...not one...was ordained. Many of the religions in the day had priestesses, but this was never a thought to Christianity. There is a difference between deacons and presbyters...even today deacons can't consecrate the Holy Gifts, because he doesn't have the charism...the indelible mark of the Alter Christus...to call upon the Holy Spirit to do so. *The Church is the New Israel, and a great deal of its worship and thought was in line with that of its Jewish roots. Of course this would take into account the male only priesthood of Judaism. *Jesus only called male disciples, and despite the modern hogwash that he could only do so because of the culture is garbage. He's God and could have easily done so. *Mary's honor and prestige made her an immediate 'Legend' in the Early Church, and yet she was never considered for a position in the Church. *Even though women were the first to receive the glorious news of the Resurrection they were not considered for ordination. Patriarchal prejudice?...Please...that would be the last of the concerns for a missionary religion in a pagan world. The Athenians laughed at Paul and the One God that he preached...yet they would have accepted a priestess. Which therefore was a greater hindrance to the mission? *The Holy Spirit...so much maligned and bantered about at GC2006...leads the Church into all truth through the Scriptures. Has the HS been wrong for 2000 years? *The Holy Tradition is the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church. Unless there is a consensus of the ENTIRE Catholic/Orthodox Church in an Ecumenical Council to decide otherwise there CANNOT be an acceptance of WO...even on the reintroduction of any form of deaconess. These seem to be enough reasons beyond the issue of the definition of 'deacon'. |
| Voyager | Posted: 2006/6/23 5:35 Updated: 2006/6/23 5:35 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/7/30 From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU). Posts: 1594 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Where is a Luther, Cranmer, Latimer or Ridley now that we so desperately need them in leadership roles.
You won't find them. In their day The Church was the centre of life itself; it was The Roman Catholic Church in fact that was central to all their lives and in its shadow they rose and fell. Today The Church is at the periphery and the Secular Religion has dominance - which is why in many ways the USA resembles the GDR with its High Priests of State Secularism. How any country whose Constitution merely forbade Congress to create a State Established Church has ended up in the absurd situation in the United States where Orthodox Christianity has been treated as a conspiracy rather as in Ancient Rome is surreal. What has happened to ECUSA is a microcosm of what Americans have allowed to happen to The United States |
| MichaelA | Posted: 2006/6/23 6:58 Updated: 2006/6/23 6:58 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/5/29 From: Posts: 869 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay I would strongly endorse everything that ICXCNIKA wrote above, with the exception of the third paragraph about the charism (forgive me, I'm a reformed calvinist...!). But regardless of our relatively minor doctrinal differences, he sums up the argument extremely well.
Someone mentioned about women in the Bible having their time taken up with child bearing - I don't think that is the whole story. In the OT jewish society, even married women had a great deal of freedom and power - Proverbs 31:10ff for example shows that a married woman not only ran her household but she made all the business and investment decisions. Further, the story of Ruth shows that a widowed woman had almost total freedom in our modern sense. By NT times it appears that Jewish society was a little more oppressive to women, but Greek society definitely was not. Cult priestesses were common. Note e.g. the alacrity with which the Cult of Isis was accepted (see "the Golden Ass" by Apuleias which is still a fairly popular work today and published by Penguin). In the book of Acts, Lydia was a merchant who dealt in Tyrian purple (probably indicating that she dealt in all kinds of luxury goods). There is no indication that she had a husband - she was the merchant. Acts 17:4 shows that women could be "prominent" in their own right in society. Jesus and his disciples were at times fed and clothed by wealthy women out of their own assets. As you read through all the Bible stories, what comes across is that one of the very few areas that the Bible restricts from women is that of headship. Note for example Deborah who was a powerful prophetess, yet made no attempt to take the supreme leadership, and became angry when a man refused to accept that responsibility. Another area is child-rearing - a woman was never expected to subordinate child-rearing to ministry. The former took priority (some might say its one of the holiest of ministries anyway). But those women who could not have children, or who had already had their children, or who could validly spare the time from their families, are often deeply involved in ministry (in the case of Dorcas, she was essentially in full-time ministry). In this context, it is surely significant that Paul and the other Apostles never endorsed a woman for a headship ministry. Regards Michael |
| DnNeal | Posted: 2006/6/23 8:10 Updated: 2006/6/23 8:10 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay ICXCNIKA
Well said. Neal |
| rossi | Posted: 2006/6/23 10:17 Updated: 2006/6/23 10:17 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Redcar, England Posts: 639 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Ducan is a big COWARD,he loves The TEC,he first think in his pension not in his flock.Do you know why Bishop Robinson and the diocese of
Recife were expelled from the anglican episcopal church of brazil? First becouse he went to priside confirmation in orthodox congregations in Ohio, than he took under his oversight some concervatives churches in revisionist diocese,thing that the coward Ducan Pittsburg didn't have courage to do.Akinola is right, you must act first. When they meet in september they will decide what to do with the TEC,They will give time till there to the Network and Ducan to decide what to do. But if in september Ducan and the Network still being part this heretic cult than will be very clear the side that they have chosen.Just to remenber you Recife diocese is located in the porest part of Brazil and they did it.The leaders of the Network should be shamed fo themselves. |
| Compline | Posted: 2006/6/23 15:04 Updated: 2006/6/23 15:04 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2006/6/22 From: USA Posts: 63 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay An inclusive Church would surely ordain such as this, for here is the scriptural support for it.
Let's get with the times! Numbers 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? |
| Satulahan | Posted: 2006/6/23 16:42 Updated: 2006/6/23 16:42 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/6/21 From: Highlands, N.C./Atlanta Posts: 4 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay I am new to this site, and am also new to "the Continuing Church," although I am, or was, a Cradle Episcopalian. I left in 2003 and, except for the music (God! How I miss the music!!) don't regret it. I am currently a sometime congregant at an Anglican Province parish because of the 1928 liturgy and, at this parish at least, a male clergy. But I haven't a clue about the differences between the APA, the AAC, the ACC, the ACA or any of the other splinters. Can anyone enlighten me? I know that for Anglicans, like Democrats, every little meaning has a movement of its own, but is there any realistic possibility that the splinters can somehow be reconstituted into one raft? After all, the Anglican communion used to be able to accommodate the low and lazy, broad and hazy, and high and crazy.
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| frcochran | Posted: 2006/6/23 18:07 Updated: 2006/6/23 18:07 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay ICXCNIKA,
I would say that we are in agreement, in fact, I can't find anything wrong with your explanation (historically or theologically). I said I would not post further on this matter (please forgive me), but the point needs to be driven home that deaconesses (historically) are not part of the ordained ministry. We have one at my parish. As to what is the difference between the PCK, ACA, ACC, and the rest of the alphabet soup? The answer is...egos, for the most part. The Continuum has been making strides recently for unity but for every two steps forward there are three steps back. John+ |
| pinebox | Posted: 2006/6/23 19:22 Updated: 2006/6/23 19:22 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/6/23 From: Posts: 2 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay From a long-time lurker and new member, what a new creed might look like for this "religion". I grieve daily for my denomination, which has left me, but thank God for my renewed faith in Him.
The Columbyssinian Creed We usually believe in no more than one god, Pansexual, androgynous, and omnipresent, In attendance, but certainly not guiding or designing, throughout the millennia of the Evolutionary process, of all that we see, can’t see, and can or can’t imagine. We believe (as convenient) in one lord, Jesus christ, (known by other names in other traditions…per Grace Cathedral, San Francisco website) Only known offspring of this god, In attendance with the Universal Parent, Eternally bringing forth new knowledge and sophistication, being a unit with the Parent, Overseer of the process of Evolution as it continues. For all people and in the spirit of Universal Salvation, He/she/it descended from Mount Olympus/Valhalla/heaven/out of nowhere As the “holy” spirit guided he/she/it; Case in point sprang from the loins of the young girl Mary, a potentially single parent, and became a sexual being, with the very same perversions as humans. For our sake, he/she/it was nailed to a cross on orders from some Roman authoritarian, but this action certainly did not involve any person of certain or questionable Jewish parentage; Thus, we do not hold them responsible in any way, shape, manner or form; He probably died, but we are not certain, and maybe he/she/it’s followers took the corpse and deposited it elsewhere. A couple of days later, we sometimes believe that he/she/it rose from the dead, but this is highly unlikely, as crap like this never happens, at least not that we have seen in our lifetime, even though some closed-minded, prejudiced, misogynistic males with beards wrote something about it a long time ago in some reference book, the title of which we cannot remember; He/she/it just disappeared one day, and we believe that the same has rejoined the Mothership. Said being may or may not return to Earth, depending on which myth you personally believe or not, and this being will not judge any person, merely question whether or not a good time was had by all. We believe in a spirit, holy or not, a continual spectator in the evolutionary process, present with us at all times, especially at General Convention, physically and absolutely verifiable to us as a seepage coming from under a closet door. We worship this being as we see fit, but insist on pretty candles, lots of flowers, spectacular music, and great-looking clothes, shoes, and a matching bag to do it in. Again, some of those sexually-inhibited, cretinous, and frustrated bearded males said some stuff a long time ago, probably “man laws”, and we really think what they said is “ca-ca”. We firmly believe in one, semi-holy, finite, and apostate club/church/organization. Someone once put water on our heads, the reason for which remains a mystery to us. We keep looking for folks to rise from the dead, but so far as we know, no one has passed this “ultimate test” (with apologies to Richard Pryor); thus, passage of said test is highly unlikely. Been here; Done that; Had a good time; Got a tee shirt with a pretty pink ribbon. Over. |
| pinebox | Posted: 2006/6/23 19:27 Updated: 2006/6/23 19:28 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/6/23 From: Posts: 2 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay repost, sorry. deleted
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| Cennydd | Posted: 2006/6/23 19:32 Updated: 2006/6/23 19:34 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay I agree with Fr Cochran. All of this egoism between the Continuing Anglican churches has got to stop! Put your silly differences aside and forget about them! Join with Bishop Duncan and the Anglican Communion Network as we separate from The Episcopal Church! Sit with us around Christ's Table, and join us in carrying out the Great Commission given to us by Our Lord! Together, we can do wondrous things in fostering orthodox Anglican Christianity and Christ's kingdom in North America. Separately, we can do nothing!
Cennydd |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2006/6/23 21:34 Updated: 2006/6/23 21:34 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay As frustrating as it may be, please allow for an orderly transistion out of ECUSA.
Even the freed Hebrew slaves took sufficient time for an ordered exodus from Pharoah! |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2006/6/23 22:44 Updated: 2006/6/23 22:44 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Please send a copy to me at my profile address.
JotM |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2006/6/23 22:45 Updated: 2006/6/23 22:45 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Schhtraberries. Who sschtole the qwart of ssschhtraberries?
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| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2006/6/23 22:55 Updated: 2006/6/23 22:55 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay The main problem with women in leadership positions has little to do with the women per se, but its effect on men, who are relived of their responsbility to lead.
For example, I refer you to the North American inner cities where matriarchy is the norm. The men, relived of their responsibilities as husbands and fathers, are free to engage in many anti-social or wasteful occupations. Fact is, division of labor is an excellent means of ordering and disciplining any organzation, civilizations included. When each member has his role to play, and it is clearly defined and measurable, it is possible to advance. When roles are illdefined and fluid, it is nearly impossible to assess and failure is a near certainty, e.g., the "Dot Bomb" of the 1990s where the business cycle and profits were declared passe. |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2006/6/23 23:13 Updated: 2006/6/23 23:13 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay ROTFLMBO!!!!
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| rossi | Posted: 2006/6/23 23:31 Updated: 2006/6/23 23:31 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Redcar, England Posts: 639 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay The TEC is dead, I hope that when Bishop
Ducan organize the new Anglican province in USA it will have a decent name(The Anglican Church Of America),and the dioceses also will have decent names instead of stupid names as El Camino Real,Upper South Caroline, Middle Central Neverland, South Northwest Neverland,Rio Grande etc.And the primate will be an Archbishop. |
| Satulahan | Posted: 2006/6/24 0:28 Updated: 2006/6/24 0:28 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/6/21 From: Highlands, N.C./Atlanta Posts: 4 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Is there a website dedicated to the legal cases between departing orthodox parishes and their TEC Bishops, and/or a site at which lawyers can volunteer their (pro bono) services to the secessionists?
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| Cennydd | Posted: 2006/6/24 3:36 Updated: 2006/6/24 3:36 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Rossi, I like the name "The Anglican Church of America!" It sings!! But let me set you straight on the name of some of the dioceses and why they were named as they were:
The Diocese of El Camino Real....my former diocese....was named that way because of its geographic location along the King's Highway, or "El Camino Real," in old California. The same is true of the Diocese of the Rio Grande in Texas. All of the dioceses are named geographically....either for states or parts of states, or cities....such as Fort Worth. Now, as for the title of the primate: I never again want to see the title "Presiding Bishop" when referring to the position of the senior bishop, because that name has been dishonored by the man who now holds the office. Our primate must be referred to as "Archbishop So-and-so." Cennydd |
| bcwright | Posted: 2006/6/24 5:30 Updated: 2006/6/24 5:45 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/7/4 From: Posts: 520 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay I hope that when Bishop Duncan organizes the new Anglican province in USA it will have a decent name(The Anglican Church Of America)
You do realize that that name is already taken by a self-styled "radically all-inclusive" church in the "Anglican" tradition (their words, not mine) - for whom the ECUSA was apparently not liberal enough? For example they say about themselves: The Anglican Church Of America is Traditional Anglicanism For ALL The People Of The 21st Century - But Without The Prejudice And Bigotry Often Associated With Many Churches And Denominations! ... And they continue on in that vein in an entirely predictable fashion. Their web site used to be at http://www.anglicanchurchofamerica.org/ but this now seems to redirect to "The Anglican Order of St. John" whatever that is - apparently some kind of noncloistered religious order or fraternity, the web site isn't very clear although they also appear to be "radically inclusive". You can view the Anglican Church of America's web site as it existed a year or so ago by looking up the site at the Internet Wayback machine (http://web.archive.org/) assuming that you can stomach reading even more Episcobabble than comes out of the ECUSA. I think you'll need to look around for a different name if you want to avoid confusion ... |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/7/2 7:49 Updated: 2006/7/2 7:49 |
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Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay Folks….these two stories are breaking over in England now. I thought everyone needs to read this. If you think APO is going anywhere, guess again. However, there are some prophetic statements about where the CofE is heading. These are both from the London Telegraph dateline today July 2, 2006. The first story was by Jonathan Wynee-Jones. Entitled “Liberals May Split From Cantebury over Homosexuals.” Here’s a clip…..
“Liberal clergy in Britain are preparing to turn to America’s Anglican bishops for leadership in a move that could produce “civil war” and destroy the Church of England. The Sunday Telegraph has learned.” “They are considering the drastic action after the Archbishop of Cantebury, Rowan Williams. Delivered a strong warning to liberals that they could be marginalized from the Anglican Church……” “Among the ideas discussed were the twinning of English and American parishes, and inviting more clergy from the U.S. to come to England on placements.” “There is also the radical possibility of an American bishop “overseeing” a liberal parish in this country, whose members feel marginalized by the imposition of traditional beliefs.” Now if any of you think this will stiffen the resolve of Rowan….guess again. Here is another article in the same paper datelined today July 2 as well. This article was posted by Mary Wakefield….here’s a clip….. “The sun was already high over Church Hill in Hertfordshire at 10:30 on Thursday morning as I followed Christina Rees through the garden, up to her front door.” “Christina is American by birth, but a member of our General Synod and chairwoman of Women and the Church (WATCH), which struggles to free the Church of England from patriarchal prejudice.” “And within the hour…she’d explained the Anglican Communion to me, unraveled all its competeing theologies and made it appear suddenly quite clear that despite his recent nod in the direction of the conservatives, the Archbishop of Cantebury will eventually go with the liberal flow….” Christina said “”You want to know what the headlines will be on July 10?” Yes, please. “They’ll all say the same thing: CofE votes for woman bishops!” So after women bishops in the CofE, you think openly gay clergy is next? “Let’s get real,” said Christina. “Look how many of them there are already. It’s just not official yet.” So is Rowan Williams thinking along these lines too? Christina just smiled. And maybe she’s right. It is true that in my part of London, a nice lady priest and her girlfriend run their parish side by side, and in the next door church, a gay priest and his partner do the same. If their spiritual leader thought they were making the Creator cross, surely he’d have put his foot down by now. And here the reporter is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. ROWAN WILLIAMS WILL NOT SEE THE BREAKUP OF THE COMMUNION FOR ANYTHING. HE WILL DELAY APO IF NOT OUTRIGHT REFUSE IT. EVEN IF HE DOES HE WILL NOT CLAMP DOWN ON THE HERETICS IN ENGLAND OR THE US. IT IS BEYOND HIGH TIME FOR YOU ALL TO REALIZE THAT THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND IS NOT IN OUR FUTURE. THE COMMUNION IS BEING BROKEN BY GOD HIMSELF AND IT’S NEW HEADQUARTERS WILL BE EVENTUALLY IN ALEXANDRIA EGYPT UNDER THE AFRICANS. DO YOURSELF THE FAVOR AND BREAK FROM YOUR OLD ESTABLISHED MINDSET…..ONCE AGAIN THE COMMUNION AS WE KNOW IT IS DEAD….DEAD…..DEAD AND SO IS THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND. |
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| gregory | Posted: 2006/7/2 13:26 Updated: 2006/7/2 13:26 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4423 |
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: The New Episcopal Religion is here to stay A response from another place rootbranch's post is posted;
Poster: AlMarsh Posted: 2006/7/2 9:39:04 Don't believe everything you read in the newspapers. General Synod will decide, not the Sunday Telegraph or the somewhat confused Ms Rees. And it will be influenced by how the Anglican Communion shapes up: which is about to become a much more conservative shape. Which i agree one must understand the source and that one can be lead into helping spread false info... FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real |
