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GC2006 : VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...Bible viewed as oppressive
Posted by David Virtue on 2006/6/21 1:10:00 (10249 reads)

"It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong." - G.K. Chesterton, essayist, novelist and Catholic (1874-1936)

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
www.virtueonline.org
6/20/2006

Dr. Rowan Williams is angered by the election of Nevada Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori as the next Presiding Bishop, our source in London tells us. The same source phoned VOL to say that the Archbishop did not welcome the choice, which makes Dr. Williams' task virtually impossible, short of a miracle. The Church of England is in the midst of a huge debate over the possibility of having women bishops, and her election is like throwing gasoline on a fire. "He is bitterly disappointed; he is working very hard for the unity of the Anglican Communion, and the Episcopal Church has thrown it back in his face," our source said.

In his message to Bishop Jefferts Schori [JS], Dr. Williams did not congratulate her or invite her to Lambeth Palace, saying only that he would pray for her. He did say that JS's election "will undoubtedly have an impact on the collegial life of the Anglican primates; and it also brings into focus some continuing issues in several of our ecumenical dialogues."

This is code for, "what the hell were you Episcopal bishops thinking of? Don't you understand we are having a civil war over homosexuality? Your church is crawling with gay and lesbian priests, and you pick a woman who supports all things gay, as well as a woman's right to choose, to be the next primate of the Episcopal Church? How stupid can you be?"

"When you think how complicated his prose normally is, the simplicity of [Dr. Williams'] statement is deafening. The Episcopal Church, in its decisions this past week, has gone terribly wrong," the source wrote.

Another source in Canada wrote to say that he could confidently predict that, the Anglican Church of Canada will tap Edmonton Bishop Victoria Matthews as its next primate, taking a cue from the U.S. (According to Anglican Essentials, Matthews is orthodox, though how one can be both a woman archbishop and genuinely orthodox is beyond our ken.) The source north of the border also noted that Archbishop Andrew Hutchinson (who is planning to retire next year) and New Westminster (Vancouver) Bishop Michael Ingham will push harder for he gay agenda in light of the recent PB election in the ECUSA.

Following JS's election, a somewhat cynical observer of General Convention wrote to say that "orthodox" bishops like Duncan, Ackerman,et al, have for years argued that there has always been some future event that would seal the deal for the orthodox. "That is an excuse for non-action; remember all the fuss over Fr. David Moyer's consecration as bishop - we need to wait for the Primates' Meeting. Well the meeting came and went and nothing happened. Then it was wait for the Windsor Report. Now, ECUSA has elected a woman presiding bishop who believes in sodomy and abortion and still no action--just more statements. The ECUSA resolution on 'regret' is like Bill Clinton saying that it all depends on your definition of 'is.'. Then the orthodox bishops will say we have to wait to see if they consecrate another Robinson. The only honorable course of action is for the 'orthodox' to say that they must separate themselves from the Episcopal Church and offer their church as the true Anglican Church in the United States as part of the Anglican Communion."

But Bishop Duncan says "The Anglican Communion Network will continue to gather into fellowship and mission orthodox Anglicans from within the Episcopal Church, from the Common Cause Partnership and from the Continuing Anglican Churches in North America. The Network Dioceses will remain the dioceses they have been, constitutionally and legally, while at the same time assessing how to give ever more pastoral care and protection to those who have been shut out. The election of the 26th Presiding Bishop is a stunning development. Nevertheless, it remains our analysis that the decisive moment in contemporary Anglican history was the confirmation vote on the Bishop of New Hampshire in August of 2003, the consequences of which continue to unfold."

A TANZANIAN BISHOP AND DIOCESE have come out in support of Fort Worth Bishop Jack Iker and other diocesan officials, who have appealed for alternative primatial oversight in the wake of JS's election. The Very Revd. Claudio Bocca, Vicar General of the Diocese of Ruvuma and EOMI wrote VOL saying on behalf of the Ruvuma diocese and Bishop Maternus Kapinga "we strongly and prayerfully support the Statement of the Diocese of Fort Worth, its Bishop and Standing Committee. We warmly pray the Lord Jesus Christ to give, his grace, to our faithful brothers and sisters in Fort Worth during this time of trouble, spiritual struggle and suffering.

The president of the Anglican Church League in Sydney, Dr. Mark Thompson, had this to say on the Episcopal Church decision:

Tuesday 20th June 2006

"The Episcopal Church of the United States of America, already under a cloud following the election and consecration of a practicing homosexual as bishop of New Hampshire in 2003, has now elected a woman to be its Presiding Bishop...

"This was done in the full knowledge that such a move would further outrage those who are struggling to maintain biblical ministry within the Anglican Communion, and especially within the American churches. Already it is reported that one American diocese has appealed to the Archbishop of Canterbury's Panel of Reference for alternative primatial oversight and pastoral care. It seems clear that this new departure from biblical teaching will only further deepen the rift within the Anglican Communion.

"Why should this be of interest to us here in Sydney?

"The Episcopal Church of the USA is an object lesson in what happens when our decision-making is not shaped by the teaching of Scripture. Unless we are informed about what God has to say on such matters as how men and women should serve each other in Christian congregations, human sexuality more generally, or the unique value and dignity of human life even prior to birth, we are left vulnerable to powerful rhetoric and the attitudes of the world at large, a world which stands opposed to the teaching of Scripture.

"These debates are not going away. The ECUSA decision makes this very clear. We cannot expect them to stay at a safe distance either. Here is a powerful reminder that we need to prepare ourselves by searching the Scriptures and encouraging each other to think and talk as those who trust and rejoice in the word of the living God."

Evangelical rector, the Rev. Dr. R. William Dickson of St. Andrew's Episcopal Church Fort Worth, wrote VOL to say, "I expect the Network to stand forward boldly with Fort Worth. I have a great confidence in the courage and leadership of Bob Duncan the Lion-Hearted. I absolutely expect a strong response. Should, however, my hopes and expectations be shattered, they will receive my letter of disaffiliation within the week." He said his advice to the Network bishops was to stand up or step aside.

As Dr. Peter Toon, VOL's resident theologian, observed: "In addressing the resolution on The Windsor Report, and in the voting of it down, there has been nothing in the House of Deputies that has been remotely like debate, if we use this word in its normal meaning of a rational exchange of viewpoints. Instead there have been a few meaningful statements for and against this resolution, in the context of many questions and comments from the floor to the chairman asking for clarification, requesting that a prayer be offered, claiming that the whole resolution interfered in matters covered by canon law...suggesting that proper parliamentary procedures were not being followed, and a variety of other special points. Rejection of such an important resolution in this undignified way reflects the profound spiritual sickness of this Church. In this case, it appears that there was a tacit agreement between the conservatives and the LesBiGay lobby to defeat this resolution one way or another, and so a kind of filibustering seems to have been one chosen method to achieve this end."

Meanwhile Bishop William Persell of Chicago applauded the decision to elect a progressive woman who is "extremely intelligent," noting her ability to speak five languages, a significant gift for a leader in a worldwide church.

"If people use this as a reason for breaking away from the Episcopal Church, there won't be a real resonance within the society," Persell contended.

Immediately after the House of Deputies voted to uphold discharge of the resolution affirming the basic principles of Christianity, the House voted in favor of Resolution C040 which sought methods of Biblical interpretation that were non-oppressive. The Resolution recognized "that the Bible has sometimes been used to justify oppressive institutions and practices, supports efforts to foster methods of biblical interpretation which do not lend support to oppressive systems." The resolution was modified from an original draft that condemned interpretation through "literalistic approaches that have oppressed/marginalized certain groups." The first draft specifically identified those certain groups as "persons of color, persons from different faith traditions, women and (at this time especially) gay and lesbian persons." One lone deputy, the Rev. Bennett Jones of the Diocese of Northern Indiana, stood to oppose the resolution. He expressed his growing fear that "our church is fostering interpretations of Scripture that support an increasingly relativistic culture." The resolution passed the House of Deputies on a voice vote. It will likely move to the House of Bishops on Wednesday. The passage of C040 followed upon the refusal of the House of Deputies, by an overwhelming majority, to pluck a resolution entitled "Salvation through Christ Alone" from the discharge list. Though the resolution affirmed the basic truths of Christianity, opposition to a floor hearing on the resolution was nearly 71 percent.

Finally, late yesterday afternoon the House of Deputies overwhelmingly refused to even consider a resolution that affirmed Jesus Christ as the "only name by which any person may be saved." For many this will be the final straw.

All this is living proof that it is better to be divided by truth, than be united by error.

With these Viewpoints the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church U.S.A. ends today. It has been a pleasure writing for you. The VOL team worked long hours to bring you all the news. We hope that what you have read will help you make a decision about what you will do ecclesiastically and spiritually with your lives.

Many of you have already written saying you are leaving the Episcopal Church for Rome, Orthodoxy and other continuing Anglican jurisdictions. We wish you God speed in your journey.

All blessings,

David W. Virtue DD

PS. Please make a tax deductible contribution to this ministry to keep the news coming to you. You can make a donation at PAYPAL at www.virtueonline.org or you can send a check to:

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Poster Thread
ICXCNIKA
Posted: 2006/6/21 4:23  Updated: 2006/6/21 4:23
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 82
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
David should also comment on the shameful treatment that several bishops gave Fr. Love on the floor of the HOB's meeting for his approval as bishop to the Diocese of Albany.

For all of those who have set this convention as the watershed moment as to whether they would leave or stay in Anglicanism I would offer this small commentary. No matter where you go, Rome or the East, you will find many problems...many of the same failures in Rome, and an entire other set of wacky difficulties with the Orthodox. All men are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. Human frailties exist in all of us, no matter where we go to church.

There is much promise in several areas of the Anglican Church in this nation, and with a dedicated and faithful core separated from ECUSA imagine the possibilities. Look at those who have left for Rome or the East who continue to blog on this site...they can't stay away. There is something mysterious about the lure of Anglicanism that captures the heart and soul. Think twice before leaving...but if you do, God bless you, and pray for us who will stay 'til death.
ZachD
Posted: 2006/6/21 4:29  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:27
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/10
From:
Posts: 1782
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
I, TOO, AM ONE OF THOSE!
I STAND AS ONE OF THE 10 WHO RETURN THANKS!

IT IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO HEALS, WHO SANCTIFIES!
HE EVEN NOW BECKONS COME FOLLOW ME.

ADD JESUS TO THE INNER PLACE IN YOUR HEART EVEN NOW! CAN YOU BEGIN TO IMAGINE JOY INSTEAD OF ALL THIS GRIEF?;

THE FILTH OF OUR OWN PROCURMENT !
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 5:10  Updated: 2006/6/21 5:10
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Amen brothers.

"I expect the Network to stand forward boldly with Fort Worth. I have a great confidence in the courage and leadership of Bob Duncan the Lion-Hearted. I absolutely expect a strong response. Should, however, my hopes and expectations be shattered, they will receive my letter of disaffiliation within the week."

*LOL* You go, Dr Dixon: "Oh Bishop, you are a lion for the Lord and if you don't act as a lion should, I'll find another bishop".

Spoken like a true Anglican. Pray for more pastors like Dr Dixon.
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/21 5:21  Updated: 2006/6/21 5:21
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
"Another source in Canada wrote to say that he could confidently predict that, the Anglican Church of Canada will tap Edmonton Bishop Victoria Matthews as its next primate, taking a cue from the U.S. (According to Anglican Essentials, Matthews is orthodox, though how one can be both a woman archbishop and genuinely orthodox is beyond our ken.) The source north of the border also noted that Archbishop Andrew Hutchinson (who is planning to retire next year) and New Westminster (Vancouver) Bishop Michael Ingham will push harder for he gay agenda in light of the recent PB election in the ECUSA."

*********

Being in Canada I share this belief. Canada will copy the US failing a miracle south of the border.

Sorry but I'm heading out of there.

BHTech
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/21 5:26  Updated: 2006/6/21 5:28
 Thank you David
"With these Viewpoints the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church U.S.A. ends today. It has been a pleasure writing for you. The VOL team worked long hours to bring you all the news. We hope that what you have read will help you make a decision about what you will do ecclesiastically and spiritually with your lives."

******************************

Thank you David and staff for bringing us the news of the last week about GC06.

You have reached millions and changed peoples lives and opinions about ECUSA and the communion. Again a big thanks.

May God Bless you and keep you all.


Sincerely,

BHTech
IMGB007
Posted: 2006/6/21 5:55  Updated: 2006/6/21 5:55
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/15
From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 93
 Re: Thank you David
Indeed.

Thank you VOL for your hard work in reporting the news to everyone.
Damascus
Posted: 2006/6/21 6:24  Updated: 2006/6/21 6:24
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
I think that the funniest aspect in all of this is what a putz that Frank Griswold has proven to be. He thought that he could stage manage this convention to get just enough contrition in the resolutions to keep the most liberal AC provinces on board. He thought that he could keep Ireland, Scotland, Wales, New Zealand and the like on his side.

He has totally lost control of the convention and it is very unlikely that he will have anything meaningful to show the Anglican Communion. Tomorrow he will try and cajole a joint session of the Bishops and Deputies into giving him something but he has a couple of fundamental problems. The House of Bishops realizes that they need to show some goodwill to the Anglicans but most of the Bishops think Griswold is a dink, and aren't that keen on doing him any favors. The House of Deputies is so dominated by crackpots that it is unlikely that they will be willing to concede anything. They are on an adrenaline rush after Tuesday's victory and I would predict they will become more rigid rather than more conciliatory. I wish that there was live television coverage of tomorrow's proceedings because I would love to watch his liberal comrades hang old Grizzy out to dry.

After the General Convention is done thumbing their noses at the Anglican Communion over the Windsor Report, passing resolutions that criticise the Bible and voting down resolutions that articulate the uniqueness of Christ, and then electing the most liberal possible candidate for Presiding Bishop, it is hard to see who will still be willing to stand beside them. Even if you agree with them in principle on most things, its not always a politically wise thing to own up to it in public. I think that the GC has put themselves in such a position that even the Eameses and Carnleys of the world will want to keep them at arms length.

The other mistake that the General Convention has made is that they elected a Presiding Bishop who is fairly articulate. Whereas Griswold's speeches and sermons were so incomprehensible and silly that few people payed any attention to them, Bishop Schiori actually makes sense when she speaks. Her ideas are just as un-Christian as those of Griswold, but when she talks, people actually understand what she is saying. That is going to make it much harder for ECUSA to say that the Africans are just picking on her because she is a woman. Even the secular press, which tends to write some pretty simplistic stories about the issues in the Episcopal Church, is going to pick up on the fact that a lot of what this woman is advocating is not Christian, in fact, it may not even be religion. She will probably get a pass from the press for a while because she is a woman and that is an interesting story, but as the relationship between ECUSA and the Communion starts to fall apart, she is going to have to make the case that the Anglican Communion has it all wrong and I don't believe that she can. Her only hope is that everything falls completely apart before November so that it is largely FTG's problem.

Griswold and his cronies were so determined to make sure that they kept the orthodox in a position of submission during this convention that they failed to consider that they might wind up with a runaway convention from the left. And just as most ECUSA liberals lack self-control in the way they conduct their personal lives, they also lack self-control in how they conduct the Church's business. Tomorrow should be great theater. I swear that I would pay a thousand dollars to watch Griswold's performance.
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 6:52  Updated: 2006/6/21 6:52
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Mate, excellent analysis
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/21 7:00  Updated: 2006/6/21 7:00
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Following JS's election, a somewhat cynical observer of General Convention wrote to say that "orthodox" bishops like Duncan, Ackerman,et al, have for years argued that there has always been some future event that would seal the deal for the orthodox. "That is an excuse for non-action; remember all the fuss over Fr. David Moyer's consecration as bishop - we need to wait for the Primates' Meeting. Well the meeting came and went and nothing happened. Then it was wait for the Windsor Report. Now, ECUSA has elected a woman presiding bishop who believes in sodomy and abortion and still no action--just more statements.

YEP....TRUE ECUSANS....TALK...TALK...TALK...BLAH...BLAH...BLAH .

Evangelical rector, the Rev. Dr. R. William Dickson of St. Andrew's Episcopal Church Fort Worth, wrote VOL to say, "I expect the Network to stand forward boldly with Fort Worth. I have a great confidence in the courage and leadership of Bob Duncan the Lion-Hearted. I absolutely expect a strong response.

Should, however, my hopes and expectations be shattered, they will receive my letter of disaffiliation within the week."

BOY, YOU NEED A TALL LADDER TO CUT THAT "HEDGE" !!!!!!! GET THAT LETTER DONE....YOU'RE GOING TO NEED IT !
rossi
Posted: 2006/6/21 7:42  Updated: 2006/6/21 7:42
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Redcar, England
Posts: 639
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Ronan Willians got what he wanted, He could had sorted this messe before,now is to late.
hobbit
Posted: 2006/6/21 10:35  Updated: 2006/6/21 10:35
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2005/3/1
From: ireland
Posts: 122
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Adam
good question concerning Williams. the truth is we (anglicans) tend to talk about the Anglican Communion as if it was some sort of cohesive body when in fact it is not really a communion at all but a loose affiliation of independent (and not interdependent) churches. our basis of communion is not Cantebury but is in fact the Bible, the BCP, the 39 Articles of religion. these were the original points of agreement and communion. every one of the provinces is independent and free to make decisions etc as ECUSA has demonstrated, without reference to the other parts of the network. Those who are advocating something else are in fact pushing a different agenda - seeking, in my humble opinion, to mirror the magesterium of Rome - something our forefathers rejected as unbiblical at the time of the Reformation. Cantebury is no pope - we dont want or need a pope. what we need is for men of God to preach the true word of God and to call others to repent of their sins and to turn to Christ as Lord and Saviour (which ECUSA has denied).

So Adam the truth is that Williams can say what he likes, when he likes and as loudly as he likes - he will simply be ignored because he has no authority in ECUSA.

As a little aside - if we are looking for historical precedence in standing in the anglican communion we in the church of ireland would point out that the See of Armagh predates the See of Cantebury.
God bless
hobbit
ptay12
Posted: 2006/6/21 11:29  Updated: 2006/6/21 11:29
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/3
From:
Posts: 427
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
The network, FIF , ACN and the rest of the alphabet groups will do nothing.
It has been thus for over 40 years
Truthseekr
Posted: 2006/6/21 12:17  Updated: 2006/6/21 12:43
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/9/14
From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru )
Posts: 784
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Quote:
Poster: atrent Posted: 2006/6/21 6:52:32

What is Williams the pope? What can he do on his own? He may be able to set a tone, but I don't think he can discipline anyone. Someone clue me in here. What is it people mean when they say "Williams should so something"? Thanks in advance.

Well,

He could come out blasting the ECUSA gencon 2006 for voting down the bible, voting down Jesus Christ as Savior, voting the bible is oppressive, and walking in obvious rebellion to Holy Scriptures concerning sexual immorality.

He could add, that nobody, supporting or doing such activities need keep their calendar blocked open to be able to attend ABC future Anglican meetings.

He could announce that he, as ABC, now recognizes the Network/conservatives as "The Legitimate Episcopal Church" in the USA.

He could fire the moderate/liberals that he put on the Panel of Reference TODAY, and immediatly replace them with folks that understand the Bible and have a healthy Fear of God Almighty.

He could tell the new Panel of Reference, that he wants an appeal regarding Biblical oversight for all ex-ecusans to be COMPLETED, the details worked out, and ready for Him to execute within one week. The cots and bread, water, coffee, & tea meals will be available next to the room where they would be working until they finish their task.

He could call a special session of the Primates to deal with eliminating the sickness from the church within not more than one month from today.

Any Primates, world wide, that support sexual immorality or trashing Holy Scriptures would not be invited...

I could go on, but that is a start of things that could be done.
Doogie777
Posted: 2006/6/21 12:30  Updated: 2006/6/21 12:30
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/20
From:
Posts: 4
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
I grow increasingly tired of talk and inaction, not to mention a local priest who seemed strong at first but has since learned the "episcopal waffle."


I would leave in a minute--but the options are limited. Lord, have mercy.
Truthseekr
Posted: 2006/6/21 12:50  Updated: 2006/6/21 12:50
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/9/14
From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru )
Posts: 784
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Dear David and crew,

thank you all,
for your hard work.

May the peace of the Lord be with you.

truthseekr
Leonard
Posted: 2006/6/21 13:08  Updated: 2006/6/21 13:08
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/11/2
From: Denver
Posts: 141
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

He could, but the "Empty Cope of Canterbury" is unlikely to do so much.

He ought to simply and clearly announce that ECUSA has become a polyglot of various religious traditions from all over the world, and is a synchretistic cult, NOT a Christian church.

WHATEVER IT TAKES, disaffiliation and excommunication are in order.......

With a blessing,

Fr. Onesimus
spbarrett
Posted: 2006/6/21 13:11  Updated: 2006/6/21 13:11
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/19
From: Hippie Valley, W. Mass.
Posts: 17
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Hobbit,

I agree with you that Williams has acted much too late. As we say on this side of the pond, a day late and a buck short. Well, he's years late and a fortune, plus its compounded interest that was due yesterday.

Why the hell he didn't just decide he was going ACT LIKE AN ARCHBISHOP and thunder his disapproval is beyond me, even if he doesn't have either legal or clerical authority. His voice, amplified in the press, should carry some heft. (He certainly knows how to use when it comes to shilling his boring books.)

As for a magisterium being unbiblical, well, I disagree. Jesus wanted his apostles to be both teachers and feeders of his Truth(s). The bible evolved out of Tradition, not the Church from the bible (as I sometimes have to remind my more evangelical brethern at the Baptist church where I volunteer.) So, if a church doesn't have some authoritative and unified body of teachers and feeders all speaking from the same script, you're risking more of the same results as what happened in Columbus.

Somebody's got to be a breakman, be it a pope or archbishop (with legal and real moral clout) otherwise, trainwrecks like the one that just occured at Columbus will become routine until all of mainstream protestantism self-destructs thanks to excessive reliance upon personal interpretation of scripture.

I can't help feeling for local Episcopalians here in Hippie Valley of western Massachusetts, one of the most staunchly liberal areas in the nation. All (pre-liberalization) Episcopal parishes are locked in with the liberal establishment. There's only one Anglican parish in the area and it has to rent a small chapel and hold its masses on Saturdays. Slim pickings. Perhaps, and I say perhaps, this trainwreck might scare enough people to look elsewhere. Alas, while the politics, etc. might be very liberal, the ways of the people in this valley are ridiculously conservative, or even timid, sorta like those "orthodox bishops."

It's prayer time! Movin' time, too.
gotc86
Posted: 2006/6/21 13:37  Updated: 2006/6/21 13:43
Just popping in
Joined: 2005/4/20
From:
Posts: 15
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/06/21/20060621-A1-00.html

quote:
“What I’m seeing here is the Holy Spirit moving us in new directions,” said the Rev. Heather Buchanan Wiseman, of Cincinnati, a deputy for the Diocese of Southern Ohio.

“It’s kind of exciting, it’s scary, it’s new,” she said. “I don’t know where it’s leading us, but I’m glad to be on the trip.”

How can the Holy Spirit move the church away from the Bible? How disgusting.

I am praying for the convention and for the leaders of the Anglican Network to have the strength to walk away if the hijacked church is not saved from itself.
gregory
Posted: 2006/6/21 14:24  Updated: 2006/6/21 14:24
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/8/4
From: Nflorida
Posts: 4423
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
ptay12, Respectfully,

i've seen that reference to "alphabet groups" from you several times ...

ptay12,Wouldn't it be more inclusive or honest to use the term "alpha/numeric groups" so the 1928, 1662, 123, 1st, 1974, 1976 ... groups that seem the same anyhow....

When will all gather together at the foot of the crucifix?
Everyone is invited but most are busy with worldly attention, jmho.


prayerfully, gregory


============
Poster: ptay12 Posted: 2006/6/21 11:29:14

The network, FIF , ACN and the rest of the alphabet groups will do nothing.
It has been thus for over 40 years
ZachD
Posted: 2006/6/21 14:56  Updated: 2006/6/21 14:57
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/10
From:
Posts: 1782
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
David and Team:

Thank you for all of your hard work, and likely sleepless nights as well.

You all have been a force of great blessing to the church. Long-reaching implications will result, of which I am hopeful and confident. I thank and praise God for your continuing example and leadership - a real dearth in the corridors of power and authority!


VOL responders have by and large NOT succumbed to the 'puke-of-the-day', for which many of us remain very thankful!

New bloggers abound! Another success!

Blessings all, in these tough days!
ZachD
Posted: 2006/6/21 15:04  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:21
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/10
From:
Posts: 1782
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Greetings, Hobbit,

Sadly, I have only had time to read, mostly, and not to respond. But, tell us something about the position of your 'See of Armagh' in all of this mess.

With thanks . . .
Philippa
Posted: 2006/6/21 16:02  Updated: 2006/6/21 16:02
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/8/28
From:
Posts: 489
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Great posts, all, especially that of Damascus.

I'm with you, Brother, in that I'd give a lot to watch the Griswoldian song-and-dance today.

Did Rowan Williams actually expect The Episcopal Cult to do anything other than serve itself and its radical Unitarian agenda?

I wonder if RW realizes that NOW is his moment to come down on the side of truth and the righteous--TEC is renegade and egocentric and the person in the best position to pull it up short is the AB of C--don't invite any bishops to Lambeth unless they fully endorse the Windsor Report. Cut TEC loose and start up the Catholic and Orthodox dialogues again. In other words, get off the fence and start justifiably throwing around as much weight as you've got--get with the program and do what's right. TEC is walking ALONE, and you need to treat them as such. The majority of the Primates and the Communion will back you up--Forget TEC's money and do what you should--the money will eventually take care of itself. Who would want dirty money anyway, or money that comes with strings attached?

You have the power, support, and know-how to realign all this--now all you need are the guts--

TEC has shown its true colors; it's high time for you to act, and act decisively--


In the One,

Philippa
Cennydd
Posted: 2006/6/21 16:52  Updated: 2006/6/21 16:52
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6684
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Pta12, take a look at what Bishop Iker of Forth Worth did two days ago, and tell me that no one's doing anything! My own bishop, +John-David Schofield, will be meeting with our Standing Committee shortly after arriving home, and I'm quite sure the same thing will happen in the Diocese of Quincy. And I won't be a bit surprised if some of the other ACN dioceses follow suit! Once the full impact of ECUSA's actions becomes apparent, there are liable to be more defections.

No, it will NOT be "business as usual!

Cennydd
DTaylor
Posted: 2006/6/21 16:58  Updated: 2006/6/21 16:58
Quite a regular
Joined: 2004/8/28
From: Orange County New York
Posts: 68
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
ICXCNIKA,

I agree that we as men are all inherently sinners and that problems exist in any church-East or West.

I left the Episcopal Chruch several months after Gene Robinson was consecrated and found a home in Orthodoxy.

I continue to post on this site to offer hope and to tell my brothers and sisters in Christ that there is peace, happiness as well as joyful and fulfilling worship outside of ECUSA. Right Now!...not years down the road.

I chose Orthodoxy for the Liturgy and the Truth.It is comforting to know that the Orthodox Church has not and will not comprimise their theology or sacraments in the name of social justice or political correctness.

I empathize with all of you, having experienced the hurt and pain of our church leaving us first hand. I pray for all of you that you may have the courage to stand up in mass or individually and walk out of the liberal parishes that you may belong to.

But I think it's clear now that unless you are blessed with a conservative priest and a flock willing to follow him...in good Christian conscience you must leave the Episocpal Church.

Orthodoxy may be for you as it was for me...but unless you walk out the door of your church you'll never know...but walk out you must and soon. Go East or go West and continue your spiritual jouney with God's blessings.

God bless all of you.
dturk
Posted: 2006/6/21 17:03  Updated: 2006/6/21 17:03
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/26
From:
Posts: 404
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
NEWS FLASH The TEC replaces the 39 Articles of Faith with the new 9 Articles of Correctness and Affirmation

Article 1. The most important things in this world are Me and My Genitals.

Article 2. God, whoever she is, exists to affirm Me and My Genitals.

Article 3. The Episcopal Çhurch, in fact all of Christianity, exists to affirm justify, edify and protect Me and My Genitals.

Article 4. The Holy Scriptures are correct insofar as they do not defame, demean, restrict or fail to affirm Me and My Genitals.

Article 5. I am completely within my rights to corrupt, distort, deny, re-write, pervert or misrepresent any person, idea, philosophy, law or the Holy Scriptures if they threaten or fail to edify Me and My Genitals.

Article 6. The whole of reality is arbitrarily defined by Me to affirm, justify, edify and protect Me and My Genitals.

Article 7. I am justified, by any means (except grace) to undermine, defame or destroy anyone who is a threat to Me and My Genitals.

Article 8. I have chosen to burrow my way into and to corrupt the TEC rather than start my own religion because I need the cache of a mainline denomination, to prevent me and my fellow believers from looking like a small, marginalized set of freaks. Also, they have a big trust fund.

Article 9. The only reason that I voted for Bishop Schori to be Presiding Bishop is that Rasputin, Aleister Crowley and Madame Blavatsky are dead and Marianne Williamson turned down the job.
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 22:03  Updated: 2006/6/21 22:03
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
"The bible evolved out of Tradition, not the Church from the bible (as I sometimes have to remind my more evangelical brethern at the Baptist church where I volunteer.)"

No it didn't spbarrett. The bible did not "evolve". Each book of the bible was scripture as soon as it was written. Once the last book was written, that was it.

Church councils never declared books to be scripture, because they could not. They could only acknowledge what *God* had already done.

And in fact, no general church council ever did declare the Canon, until the 16th century (the council of trent), and then it got it badly wrong because it included the Apocrypha which the mainstream of christian thought had never acknowledged to be scripture.

"Somebody's got to be a breakman, be it a pope or archbishop (with legal and real moral clout) otherwise, trainwrecks like the one that just occured at Columbus will become routine until all of mainstream protestantism self-destructs thanks to excessive reliance upon personal interpretation of scripture."

Quite the opposite. You are saying what the Roman cult wants to believe. In fact, ECUSA got in this state because it uses the traditions of men to interpret the scriptures, instead of trusting the plain words and the Holy Spirit who interprets them. When you look at the state of protestantism today, the message is very plain: stick to Scripture and your faith is safe; put human tradition and reasoning on a par with scripture and you will make shipwreck of your faith. Rome has done it in a different way to ECUSA, but it is just as screwed up.

Regards
Michael
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 22:07  Updated: 2006/6/21 22:09
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
D Taylor wrote:

"But I think it's clear now that unless you are blessed with a conservative priest and a flock willing to follow him...in good Christian conscience you must leave the Episocpal Church.
Orthodoxy may be for you as it was for me...but unless you walk out the door of your church you'll never know...but walk out you must and soon. Go East or go West and continue your spiritual jouney with God's blessings."

Can't argue with that! Thanks for the encouragement. Every Anglican should look at where they are and consider whether they can stay there in good conscience. Whatever the choice, it will not be easy for a faithful believer: leaving a church that has been a home for many years will be difficult; staying in a faithful congregation will also be difficult as the apostate put pressure on you. But our prayers are with you.
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/21 23:44  Updated: 2006/6/21 23:44
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Spbarrett said "Somebody's got to be a breakman, be it a pope or archbishop (with legal and real moral clout) otherwise, trainwrecks like the one that just occured at Columbus will become routine until all of mainstream protestantism self-destructs thanks to excessive reliance upon personal interpretation of scripture."

I agree with you. I'm on your side. I just sent you a private message.

God Bless

BHTech
drcribbage
Posted: 2006/6/22 6:34  Updated: 2006/6/22 6:34
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/3/3
From:
Posts: 39
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Again, I have to pose the question to everyone:
has anyone here ever heard of the Continuing Anglican Churches?
There are MANY out there -- and they need you NOW!

We left ecusa in 1977 over the feminist/gay agenda. Canterbury, at that time, would not (and will never) recognize a Traditional/Conservative/Orthodox Province in North America. The present "orthodox" bishops are clowns.

Our churches DO NOT ordain women; are PRO-LIFE; DO NOT support the feminist/gay agenda; and DO NOT use the 1979 BCP (we only use the 1928 BCP or earlier missals).
Our clergy are well educated and theologically sound good men.

Gee, what's so wrong with that?
What are you afraid of? Seek and ye shall find!
ZachD
Posted: 2006/6/22 12:04  Updated: 2006/6/22 12:05
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/10
From:
Posts: 1782
 Re: VOL@GC'06: Williams angered by choice of Schori...B
Cennydd,

You're in Quincy. Neat.
Top notch bishop there, and Mario is top notch, too!

Small wonder, then, that you are on top of your game!

All blessings . . .
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