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GC2006 : COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Posted by David Virtue on 2006/6/20 23:40:00 (48559 reads)

COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ

By Hans Zeiger
VirtueOnline Correspondent
www.virtueonline.org

COLUMBUS, OHIO (6/20/06)-The House of Deputies of the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church today overwhelmingly refused to even consider a resolution that affirmed Jesus Christ as the "only name by which any person may be saved."

"This type of language was used in 1920s and 1930s to alienate the type of people who were executed. It was called the Holocaust. I understand the intent, but I ask you to allow the discharge to stay," said the Rev. Eugene C. McDowell, a graduate of Yale Divinity School and Canon Theologian for the Diocese of North Carolina.

The convention's Committee on Evangelism first heard the resolution and discharged it to the chagrin of that committee's chairman, the Rev. Colenzo Hubbard, a noted evangelist and director of Emmanuel Episcopal Center in the Diocese of West Tennessee. The Rev. Hubbard motioned to lift the resolution from the discharge list, but after heated debate, more than seven tenths of the House of Deputies rejected the motion.

Drafted by the Rev. Guido Verbeck, rector of St. Paul's Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Western Louisiana, Resolution D058 declared the Episcopal Church's belief in an "unchanging commitment to Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the only name by which any person may be saved," and it acknowledged evangelism as "the solemn responsibility placed upon us to share Christ with all persons when we hear His words, 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No-one comes to the Father except through me' (John 14:6)."

The resolution further affirmed "the substitutionary essence of the Cross and the manifestation of God's unlimited and unending love for all persons," while calling on the Episcopal Church to renew its Scripture-based witness to "all persons."

The Rev. Hubbard said that he voted for the resolution in committee because of his simple responsibility as a Christian. Hubbard quoted several verses of Scripture to demonstrate his conviction. "I do agree that Jesus Christ is both the substitutionary essence of the Cross and the manifestation of God's unlimited and unending love for all persons," said Hubbard, once a star on the University of Alabama football team.

Echoing Hubbard, Canon Dr. Kendall Harmon, a leading conservative in the denomination, argued for a "reaffirmation of what some have called 'the scandal of particularity' of the Cross."

Judy Mayo from the Diocese of Fort Worth also opposed discharge. "My friends, this is a church convention, and this is the very essence of our faith. This may be the most important thing we deal with at this entire convention...Surely we can say together that Jesus Christ is Lord. And if we can't, we have no reason to be here."

But liberals outnumbered Hubbard, Harman, and Mayo by far.

The Rev. McDowell of the Diocese of North Carolina told VirtueOnline after the floor vote, "In the Episcopal Church we don't do up and down votes on Jesus Christ as Lord, and to do so is potentially a mean-spirited approach, to ask questions that aren't meant to be questions."

McDowell explained that how one lives his life is the more important issue than whether one affirms Jesus as Lord. To place a statement of belief over actions is the essence of "self-righteousness," he said. "Actions speak louder than proclamations...What Jesus calls us to do is to live our lives."

McDowell outlined his basic theology of grace: "Salvation by grace is remembering that we are the children of a living God. Grace is already there. And salvation is realizing we now live into that salvation. And sanctification is the transforming of my life from one that's me-centered to one that's God-centered."

But to acknowledge the exclusive Lordship of Christ in a resolution would be too much for McDowell and the majority of deputies at the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church.

The Rev. Robert Certain of the Diocese of San Diego told the House of Deputies that he refused to consider the resolution because the General Convention of 1982 had endorsed salvation through Christ alone, and a resolution was unnecessary.

But the message was clear to the Rev. Donald Perschall, rector of St. John's Episcopal Church in Centralia, Illinois, as he left the convention hall Tuesday, shocked by the events of the day. "On top of leaving the Anglican Communion, we've decided to leave Jesus Christ behind as well."

It was not a surprise vote though; the liberalization of the Episcopal Church predates 1982. Episcopalians have made it clear by their rejection of traditional marriage and other recent innovations that a new set of principles now dominate the Episcopal Church. Though the trend toward liberalism in the Episcopal Church has been ongoing for decades, it was in 2003 that the consecration of a homosexual as Bishop of New Hampshire crystallized the departure of the denomination from its bearings in classical Anglicanism.

Dr. Michael Howell of the Diocese of Southwestern Florida and a member of the Special Committee that deliberated the Convention's response to the global Anglican Communion's Windsor Report, told VirtueOnline that the discharge of Resolution D058 is "very much related" to the failure of Resolution A161 moments earlier.

A161 would place a moratorium on the consecration of homosexual bishops and the blessing of homosexual unions in a minimal effort to comply with the Windsor Report. It was soundly defeated on the floor of the House of Deputies Tuesday.

"If we cannot affirm the unique salvific power of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we are no longer a Christian church." Switching to a sarcastic tone, Howell declared, "We have no need for a Creed. Why do again what we did in the past?"

"This clearly shows that we are of a mind that does not affirm Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. And we should not be surprised that our church is dying spiritually," said Howell.

The final tally on the electronic vote was 70.5 percent for discharge (675 votes) and just 29.5 (242 votes) to consider the resolution affirming Jesus Christ as Lord.

FULL TEXT RESOLUTION D058 SALVATION THROUGH CHRIST ALONE Discharged in committee. Discharge upheld by House of Deputies, 75th General Convention.

Resolved, the House of _____ concurring, That the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church declares its unchanging commitment to Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the only name by which any person may be saved (Article XVIII); and be it further Resolved, That we acknowledge the solemn responsibility placed upon us to share Christ with all persons when we hear His words, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

No-one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6); and be it further Resolved, That we affirm that in Christ there is both the substitutionary essence of the Cross and the manifestation of God's unlimited and unending love for all persons; and be it further Resolved, That we renew our dedication to be faithful witnesses to all persons of the saving love of God perfectly and uniquely revealed in Jesus and upheld by the full testimony of Holy Scripture.

END

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Poster Thread
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 2:48  Updated: 2006/6/21 2:49
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
American brothers and sisters,

Please ensure that your Anglican brethren are made aware of this vote. More than anything, it has the potential to shock many loyal ECUSAN pew-dwellers into realising that they will not be afforded the luxury to continue sitting on the fence.

Also show it to your christian friends from other denominations: Baptist, Catholic, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Orthodox, whatever. These will often have episcopalian friends with whom they may well discuss the resolution. This needs to be publicized far and wide.

I am surprised the Liberals were stupid enough to move so far into the open, but as Cromwell observed when the Scots emerged from the shelter of Doon Hill: "God has delivered them into our hands" (Dunbar 1650).
Godislove
Posted: 2006/6/21 2:49  Updated: 2006/6/21 2:49
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/2/6
From:
Posts: 221
 When you're right, you're right.
Today was an outstanding day for the Episcopal Church. We're not going to fall for useless grandstanding resolutions by those who seem to know some of the right words, but haven't a clue as to what Christian life is all about. Thank you Lord, for your guiding hand and to convention for your perfect orthopraxy. Thanks be to God!
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 2:50  Updated: 2006/6/21 2:50
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
Hi John! when are you going to get another parish?
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 2:53  Updated: 2006/6/21 2:54
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
John Bennison wrote:

"We're not going to fall for useless grandstanding resolutions by those who seem to know some of the right words, but haven't a clue as to what Christian life is all about. ..."

Actually, come to think of it, that's a good point. You stay there, secure in your convention vote, safe and happy. Everything is fine, nothing to worry about! Any silly things the orthodox do, like white anting your congregations won't have any effect, so just you ignore us.
Iraneus
Posted: 2006/6/21 2:59  Updated: 2006/6/21 2:59
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/21
From:
Posts: 8
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
>John Bennison wrote:

You know what, I'm probably what VOL denizens would call "liberal", but that is pretty funny.

I deplore the rejection of the resolutions supporting Biblical literacy and the Lordship of Christ. As a former evangelical, I'm shocked at the lack of basic Bible knowledge among many of my Episcopalian brothers and sisters.
RMachina
Posted: 2006/6/21 3:15  Updated: 2006/6/21 3:15
Quite a regular
Joined: 2004/9/1
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 49
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
I cut this from a previous thread because it seemed even more appropriate here. We are not now engaged in a battle of logic and reason, but rather a in spiritual conflict we are powerless to win by our own abilities. Praise God that He is the One Who fights for us, and Who has already won the battle!

Prayer. Fasting. Time in His Word. Abiding in Him (John 15:1-8). These are the spiritual weapons suitable for this conflict!



"From prayertime based on 1 Cor 3:10-15 -- Christ laid the foundation for His Church 2000 years ago. All of the wood, hay and stubble which mankind has built upon that foundation is now beginning to be burned away. The end result of this process, which will occur much more quickly than any of us realize, will be the complete crumbling of all of the denominations. Christian unity WILL occur; however, it will occur on GOD'S terms, and not ours! God is beginning to undo all that mankind has done to confuse and divide His church. His Bride will be ready for His return.

"As Job's response to God's jackhammer-like questions was 'Never mind -- sorry I said anything!', so also will we be humbled into silence by God's holiness and majestic power! We love to rant and rave about all that's going wrong, but His unrelenting query of us is 'Are you doing what I sent you to do?' I am the chief of sinners when it comes to focusing on the negative news, and wallowing in the muck and the mire that has infected much of today's church, across all denominations. How much better for the Kingdom if each one of us were to redirect this emotional energy into reaching out in love to our brothers and sisters who are rushing headlong into the abyss, some unknowingly, others not caring.

"It is not 'homophobic', or hateful, to warn people that what they are doing is wrong, and that such behavior endangers them and others around them, now and for eternity.

"If I understand the Scriptures correctly, the only force that renders the power of the Cross ineffective is an unrepentent heart. Redefining sin does not make it go away; however, repenting (i.e. "turning away from it") of it does, because of His sacrifical death and resurrection. Therein lies perhaps the greatest, most satanic evil of ECUSA -- trying to make sin go away by redefining it, rather than by repenting of it. Redefining sin is not mankind's perogative. God is God, and we're not.

"Wasn't that the first temptation, 'to be like God?'

"ECUSA is dead. It has been 'given over', ala Rom 1 (vv 24, 26, 28). So also in the foreseeable future will be every other man-made denomination. In the midst of the increasing chaos, let us stay-on-target by growing closer to Him, by growing closer to His people, and by growing His Kingdom.

"Come quickly, Lord Jesus!"

JAM (the husband half of RMachina)
gregory
Posted: 2006/6/21 3:18  Updated: 2006/6/21 3:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/8/4
From: Nflorida
Posts: 4436
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
illiterate and innumerate makes a rough future...
wooly
Posted: 2006/6/21 3:23  Updated: 2006/6/21 3:23
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2005/2/3
From:
Posts: 29
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
TEC has now shot itself in the foot (read: feet) so many times, it will not even have stumps left to "walk apart" on. 'Where there is no shame, neither will there be any sense of Truth.' (Brent Bozell) Bishop Jecko, aren't you glad that you rejected 'all the vain things that charmed you most,' long before this sad spectacle, which has revealed just how vain those things were--and are?
Cennydd
Posted: 2006/6/21 3:34  Updated: 2006/6/21 3:34
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6862
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
Yeah, MichaelA, those wooden-headed addle-brained idiots in the House of Deputies DO have termites in their brains! So much so that their grey matter has turned to sawdust, and their words are Obfuscatory Episcobabble! I really DO hope they rejoice in their Pyrrhic victory, because it's the only one they'll ever win!

Cennydd
morrismpls
Posted: 2006/6/21 3:51  Updated: 2006/6/21 3:51
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From:
Posts: 496
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
John John, really? Can the webmaster change his username to GirlsisLove?
ICXCNIKA
Posted: 2006/6/21 4:07  Updated: 2006/6/21 4:07
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 82
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
"This type of language was used in 1920s and 1930s to alienate the type of people who were executed. It was called the Holocaust. I understand the intent, but I ask you to allow the discharge to stay," said the Rev. Eugene C. McDowell, a graduate of Yale Divinity School and Canon Theologian for the Diocese of North Carolina.

Gee, I wonder what Bible studies are like in North Carolina

There is hardly any surprise in this considering the events of the past week. But remember that Jesus said that those who deny Him before men, He will deny before his Father.

The sheer hubris and utter lack of humility by ECUSA has nothing in common with 2000 years of Christianity and, as stated elsewhere, is truly a new (and pathetic) religion.
ZachD
Posted: 2006/6/21 4:25  Updated: 2006/6/21 4:26
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/10
From:
Posts: 1791
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
I'm still reeling from the election of headmistress! I cannot wait until tomorrow - for whatever abomination awaits us!

Do we even have the capacity, discipine, or even knowledge, to fall prostrate before almighty God and beg his forgiveness of our sins?

Aptly posted already: Prayer. Fasting. Time in His Word. Abiding in Him (John 15:1-8). These are the spiritual weapons suitable for this conflict!

Our undoing comes from not knowing the Father Heart of God! From not knowing His word! Oh, how we continue to carve up the Son of Man! We will have no excuse, we who have been given much!

I pledge to re-new my Rule of Life immediately! Oh, how the Jews have it correctly expressed: torn beards, torn robes, sackcloth and ashes!

Oh Lord! Forgive! Forgive! Forgive!
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 4:34  Updated: 2006/6/21 4:34
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From:
Posts: 869
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
Iraneus wrote:

"You know what, I'm probably what VOL denizens would call "liberal", but that is pretty funny.
I deplore the rejection of the resolutions supporting Biblical literacy and the Lordship of Christ. As a former evangelical, I'm shocked at the lack of basic Bible knowledge among many of my Episcopalian brothers and sisters."

That doesn't surprise me Iraneus. I think there will be many others who share your viewpoint. The sheer effrontery of a "church" doing this so openly is hard to credit.
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/21 5:12  Updated: 2006/6/21 5:12
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
That is it! Off with their heads. No questions asked.

BHTech
Caroll
Posted: 2006/6/21 6:33  Updated: 2006/6/21 6:33
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/2/22
From:
Posts: 289
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
Ok what did I miss? Where did John Bennison write Quote:
"We're not going to fall for useless grandstanding resolutions by those who seem to know some of the right words, but haven't a clue as to what Christian life is all about. ..."
rossi
Posted: 2006/6/21 7:17  Updated: 2006/6/21 7:20
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Redcar, England
Posts: 639
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Fr Steve you is just a pervert. The new TEC stink like you now what.The Episcopal Church is dead. Is just to find a date for the funeral.
What about Ronan Cantuar presiding the requiem
mass(gay mass)
JimMcNeely
Posted: 2006/6/21 9:08  Updated: 2006/6/21 9:08
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Joined: 2004/4/7
From:
Posts: 699
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
"Today was an outstanding day for the Episcopal Church."

Yeah...if more Loon Left nonsense is what is desired. If so, look for more of the same result: people leaving in droves, empty church buildings, and jello-like theology - all accompanied by weak leadership.

"We're not going to fall for useless grandstanding resolutions by those who seem to know some of the right words, but haven't a clue as to what Christian life is all about."

I think Steve has been reading Spong again. This is more classical Loon Left projection. The only people truly parading their nonsense are the people in the GLBT community who are now running the lunactic asylum known as TEC.

-Jim+
Fire_Ready
Posted: 2006/6/21 9:31  Updated: 2006/6/21 9:31
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/6/21
From: Hotlanta
Posts: 405
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Ann Coulter's 'Godless' comes to mind. The institutional rationalization of Christianity rampant in the ECUSA is very evident here. They worship at the alter of ever chamging political correctness. I am terribly saddened by this. As Christians, we deserve better. To repent: Stop dead in your tracks, then reverse your course. If the governing body of the ECUSA does not do this, Our Lord will permit the ECUSA to die on the vine so everyone can see what happens when activists are permitted to take over a church and use rationalized church doctrine to subvert His word. Pray for our people.
mathman
Posted: 2006/6/21 10:35  Updated: 2006/6/21 10:35
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/26
From: Rockville, MD
Posts: 1064
 Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
What was it that I read somewhere?
If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my Father.
I think that GIL is misnamed. The movement which I recall was "God is dead". So GIL should really be GID.
Or perhaps we are going back to Hemingway. "Our nada, who art in nada,...".

Can there be any serious doubt? TEC is not a Christian church. TEC is a religion, yes, but a purely secular religion.

TEC has no life after death. TEC has only some sort of returning to the source, perhaps in the Buddhist sense. TEC has no creation, having discovered through evolution that a Creator is not necessary.

So there is no beginning and no end. There is just justice and peace, whatever they are. And being nice. And celebrating victimhood and oppression. And keeping the folks in the pews in the dark about who they really are.

So RING THE BELLS!!! Sound the alarm. Let the word go forth:

FUGGEDABOUDIT!!!

TEC has gone away.
shytech74
Posted: 2006/6/21 10:58  Updated: 2006/6/21 10:58
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/4/23
From: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1054
 Re: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
mathman: maybe you read it here:

"Whosoever shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before MY Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven" Matt 10:32,33.

Also this:
" That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9,10.

It is not enough simply to believe in silence, we must publicly, boldly, and unashamedly SAY what we believe, and confess it before all men.

The Bible says so.
JRoss
Posted: 2006/6/21 11:00  Updated: 2006/6/21 11:00
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/3/15
From: New Jersey
Posts: 896
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
"""Today was an outstanding day for the Episcopal Church. We're not going to fall for useless grandstanding resolutions by those who seem to know some of the right words, but haven't a clue as to what Christian life is all about. Thank you Lord, for your guiding hand and to convention for your perfect orthopraxy. Thanks be to God!""'

I take it then you do not like the rest of us, reaffirm baptism each year? Then it would be proper to say that you do not believe Christ is the only way to the Father. If so, then your ordination vows are not valid, if you are ordained in the first place. I am sure to you, it is a moot point, since the only thing you espouse consistently is just the second part of the Summary, conviently leaving out the first and "All the Law and the Prophets. Why use a liturgy, lectionary, or prayerbook, for they are reaffirmation? Surely you do not recite the creeds. Why not just be extemporaneous as some Presbyterians are? You are right in one area where you say we do not what Christian life is all about. Your version, that is.
Laytone
Posted: 2006/6/21 12:44  Updated: 2006/6/21 12:44
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/5/21
From: Brewton, Alabama
Posts: 90
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Well now really folks, what did you expect.
When you have a movement to place "I" and "me" ahead of Holy Scripture and the entire Anglican Communion the way V.G. Robinson has done, it was a forgone conclusion.

You can not serve two masters and according to these people, Christ is not about to become their master. They might want to revisit that part about accepting or rejecting Jesus as "the way the truth and the life". Oh, I'm sorry that would require opening a Bible.
Leonard
Posted: 2006/6/21 13:39  Updated: 2006/6/21 13:39
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/11/2
From: Denver
Posts: 141
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
I must reiterate: "Come out of her, my people, and touch not the unclean thing...."
melora20
Posted: 2006/6/21 13:46  Updated: 2006/6/21 13:46
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/3/27
From: Southern Indiana
Posts: 227
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Is anybody still waiting for clarity?

This is a logical successor to voting down B001 at GC 2003. The trajectory has been clear for a long time, folks.

The one who posted that this is a great day for the Episcopal Church is right. They haven't been tricked into confessing faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Nobody could fool them. They're too intellectual, too sophisticated for that.

In a sense, it doesn't bother me. After all, it's not my "church". GC 2003 finally woke me up and I and others planted a new Anglican parish.

But it's too bad about all those who are still asleep.
dpgerman
Posted: 2006/6/21 15:00  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:00
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/21
From:
Posts: 1
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
The Rev. McDowell needs to read Romans 10:8 - 10.
NO matter what version you prefer, they all say that "with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
While he's at it he should look at Philippians 2:10.
dedaze
Posted: 2006/6/21 15:29  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:29
Just popping in
Joined: 2005/10/20
From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 13
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
So, the piscopal church has now decided that Jesus was a Nazi. How interesting.
Time-to-go
Posted: 2006/6/21 15:34  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:34
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From:
Posts: 154
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Matthew 10:32-34 (New King James Version)

32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
skmarden
Posted: 2006/6/21 15:36  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:36
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From:
Posts: 5
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
It is both sad and outrageous that this part of the Church of our Lord, Jesus Christ, the Episcopal Church, an institution that dates back to the Apostles of Jesus Christ has, overnight, become just another cult. Apostasy reigns this church, 75% to 25%. Not Jesus Christ.

Steve Marden
Minneapolis Minnesota
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/21 15:56  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:56
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Steve:

Be thankful for the developments of GC'06. I can't speak for you but the "innovations" of this GC has made the decision very clear and easy.

If you choose that path as well, make sure that you know where your checkbook and wallet are at all times during your last visit to your perish (used intentionally).
Jefferson
Posted: 2006/6/21 15:56  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:56
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From:
Posts: 7
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Gotta love that stampede straight to Hitlerism on the part of Gene McDowell. Perhaps Canon McDowell would pause for a moment in his enthusiasm for for the homosexualist agenda if he knew that a fair number of high-level Nazis were homosexual, including Ernst Roehm, head of the Brownshirts.

Then again, he might not. The invocation of the Third Reich is meant to stop debate, not warn of actual consequences of decisions taken. Does Howell seriously contend that TEC will be building concentration camps for Jews and Jehova's Witnesses if this resolution is passed?
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/21 15:57  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:59
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
duplicate-please remove frame
campwebb
Posted: 2006/6/21 15:59  Updated: 2006/6/21 15:59
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From:
Posts: 2
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
If this resolution didn't pass because we affirmed it in 1982, I see no problem in reaffirming it. In fact, since it was brought to the table, the simple answer would be to reaffirm it, if they do agree with it. And to argue that we affirm it every week in the liturgy or every year in baptismal vows, then why would it be a problem to reaffirm it twice this week. The second time to show the world what we believe.

I guess they did show the world what they believe. And I know what I believe. Put the 2 together, and I know I am not part of Ecusa
skmarden
Posted: 2006/6/21 16:19  Updated: 2006/6/21 16:19
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From:
Posts: 5
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Does Eugene think he is the Redeemer? His e-mail address tells all: redeemer@shelby.net

!!!

"Commission on Ministry
The Rev. Eugene C. McDowell, 502 West Sumter Street, Shelby, NC 28150
704/487-5404 redeemer@shelby.net

Dear Eugene:

Now I get it. Jesus Christ said "no man comes to the Father, but by Me." You said the Nazis talk like that. You obviously think that Jesus Christ is a Nazi and that YOU are the Redeemer.

God is not mocked. Yet, you mock God.

Even you can be saved. Repent, and give your heart to Jesus Christ.

Steve Marden

Minneapolis Minnesota"
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/21 16:22  Updated: 2006/6/21 16:22
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
This shows more than anything yet the God of the New Episcopal Church. The next thing they'll be doing is removing all crosses from the churches.

Quote:
1 John 4
1. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.



The leaders of the ECUSA are doing Satan's work.
frcochran
Posted: 2006/6/21 17:16  Updated: 2006/6/21 17:16
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
"This type of language was used in 1920s and 1930s to alienate the type of people who were executed. It was called the Holocaust. I understand the intent, but I ask you to allow the discharge to stay," said the Rev. Eugene C. McDowell, a graduate of Yale Divinity School and Canon Theologian for the Diocese of North Carolina.

I can't agree with dedaze more.

First of all, to characterize these poor Jews living and dying in Nazi occupied lands as being "executed" is a farce. Executed implies that some way or some how they were charged with a crime, tried, then justice was carried out. Canon McDowell, the word is "murdered" or the phrase "a crime against humanity." But please do not imply any dignity whatsoever to those murdering thugs of Nazi Germany.

Secondly, dedaze is correct. There is absolutely no correlation or moral equivalence between genocide and proclaiming the Saviour of the World to be who He is.

In conclusion: it must be very easy to be the canon theologian in the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina.

John+
russedav
Posted: 2006/6/21 20:52  Updated: 2006/6/21 20:52
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/6/8
From: Ft. Wayne, IN
Posts: 289
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
This is partly true, but still a half truth, for the same thing about illiteracy, both in general, and Biblically in particular, is also true about virtually every Western Christian group (I've visited many), not just denominations, oldline or any other, which is why the leadership of Christ's Church clearly is passed from the west to Africa and Asia where they're more inclined to take God and His Perfect Word seriously, not that there aren't many in the west that are the 1 Kings 19:18<Romans 11:4 exceptions that haven't compromised. The exciting aspect of this is that maybe the Church is returning to its African roots that may be the prelude to the return of Christ! God alone knows, but it's an exciting, hope-building thing to contemplate in the fear of God.
ALERO
Posted: 2006/6/21 21:23  Updated: 2006/6/21 21:23
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
I've been following the legislation list and looked up DO58 Salvation Through Christ Alone and the column that says "Status" indicates MDaoc - Dep "Discharge - Already acted on at prior convention"

Someone unpack that one!!

Does this mean that at GC 2003 they opted to denounce the Salvation through Christ Alone and we missed it or are they pulling another shell game saying it was dealt with and it wasn't to avoid the issue. Given the verbal wandering--one never knows!!
bogie7129
Posted: 2006/6/21 23:22  Updated: 2006/6/21 23:22
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From: Northwest Florida
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Today, I resigned my membership in the Episcopal Church USA, from my local diocese, and my local Episcopal Church. While my rector is a conservative, my bishop is not and very nearly voted for the ordination of VGR in 2003, until he found out exactly how the members of his parish felt about it.

However, the liberals have taken over; there is no more sin in homosexuality; some people were put on this Earth to love people of the same gender (she actually meant sex, but used the wrong word); and now Jesus Christ is not the only way to salvation.

I nearly quit in 2003; now I can't take it any more. The following sermon sums up how I feel. It is a short read. Please read it before you read who wrote it; hopefully, this will not jaundice your view if you don't happen to agree with the demonination of the author.

Today I am in tears because I did something I did not want to do, but know I had to do. In my written resignation to my rector, I asked him to please announce my departure in the weekly bulletin along with a note about why I left so that all the other members of my church would know and realize that they, too, must stand up for Jesus Christ or suffer the consequences.

Please read:

http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper83/010283.htm
orthotox
Posted: 2006/6/22 2:20  Updated: 2006/6/22 2:20
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Posts: 7
 Re: When you're right, you're right.
John's new parish: Just south of Sodom and west of Babel.
spbarrett
Posted: 2006/6/22 3:50  Updated: 2006/6/22 3:50
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From: Hippie Valley, W. Mass.
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
What McDowell said about the Nazis, Holocaust and that "old language" about the Lord's Divinity, etc., just reflects a typical liberal response when called upon to defend an indefensible and boneheaded idea.

The politics of defamation by tar-brush and immaturely reaching for the Nazi comparisons.

At best, it's the whiny way to say "back off," but at worst, it just reflects the emotional and intellectual immaturity which can safely be said to reflect current trends of thought among liberal powers-that-be within the liberalized mainline churches.

When will the liberals ever grow up, and be man or woman enough to take a strong stand for Jesus and not be so afraid to "offend" others. That's the easy way out; not the Christian way of taking up one's cross.
Leonard
Posted: 2006/6/22 11:32  Updated: 2006/6/22 11:32
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
It is truly sad that someone so ignorant of important history could graduate from college, and repulsive that someone without commitment to the Christian religion could have so prominent a voice in ECUSA.
HanhLan
Posted: 2006/6/22 13:05  Updated: 2006/6/22 13:11
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ

You wrote:

I cut this from a previous thread because it seemed even more appropriate here. We are not now engaged in a battle of logic and reason, but rather a in spiritual conflict we are powerless to win by our own abilities. Praise God that He is the One Who fights for us, and Who has already won the battle!

Prayer. Fasting. Time in His Word. Abiding in Him (John 15:1-8). These are the spiritual weapons suitable for this conflict!

...."Wasn't that the first temptation, 'to be like God?'

"ECUSA is dead. It has been 'given over', ala Rom 1 (vv 24, 26, 28). So also in the foreseeable future will be every other man-made denomination. In the midst of the increasing chaos, let us stay-on-target by growing closer to Him, by growing closer to His people, and by growing His Kingdom.

"Come quickly, Lord Jesus!"

JAM (the husband half of RMachina)

I say:

AMEN and AMEN!
jmb4856
Posted: 2006/6/23 12:17  Updated: 2006/6/23 12:17
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 Re: When you're right, you're right.
I suppose Jesus was a liar when He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one can come to the Father except though me. If you had known who I am, then you would have known who My Father is. From now on you have known Him and have seen Him!"
Dianna777
Posted: 2006/6/23 16:18  Updated: 2006/6/23 16:18
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
After spending some time researching this, as it is quite disturbing to read that "Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ", I found it wasn't that they refused to act on it, but it had already been acted on at prior conventions. See: http://gc2006.org/legislation/view_Legislation.aspx. It seems there was a rush of legislation on the final day of convention. See: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/75383_76322_ENG_HTM.htm. Articles with with headings like this only serve to inflame fundamental Christians and some in their ignorance believe what they are reading is true because they either do not have the time, or resources to research it. Why is such an article written without presenting all the facts, and what bias is being projected as truth when in fact it is a misrepresentation to the readers of what really happened?
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/23 18:53  Updated: 2006/6/23 18:53
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
They were ask to reafirm Christ. By refusing they deny Christ. As Jesus said "If you deny me you deny my Father who sent me". Coupeled with the heretical statments of the PB Elect it shows just how apostate the Episcopal Church has become.
skmarden
Posted: 2006/6/23 21:47  Updated: 2006/6/24 2:19
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Dianna777,

You are comparing apples and oranges. The 1982 resolution and the 2006 resolution are quite different.
skmarden
Posted: 2006/6/24 2:07  Updated: 2006/6/24 2:09
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Here is a transcript of the 1982 Endorsement:

"Resolution Number: 1982-A047
Title: Reaffirm the Principles of Unity in the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral
Legislative Action Taken: Concurred As Amended
Final Text:

"Resolved, the House of Deputies concurring, That the 67th General Convention of the Episcopal Church re-affirm the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral as found on pages 876-878 of the Book of Common Prayer as a statement of basic principles which express our own unity, and as a statement of essential principles for organic unity with other churches, and affirm the following as an explication of that basic document without denying anything contained therein: that

"The Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the word of God as they are witness to God's action in Jesus Christ and the continuing presence of his Holy Spirit in the Church, that they are the authoritative norm for catholic faith in Jesus Christ and for the doctrinal and moral tradition of the Gospel, and that they contain all things necessary for salvation.
"The Apostles' and Nicene Creeds are the forms through which the Christian Church, early in its history under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, understood, interpreted and expressed its faith in the Triune God. The continuing doctrinal tradition is the form through which the Church seeks to understand, interpret and express its faith in continuity with these ancient creeds and in its awareness of the world to which the Word of God must be preached.
"The Church is the sacrament of God's presence in the world and the sign of the Kingdom for which we hope. That presence and hope are made active and real in the Church and in the individual lives of Christian men and women through the preaching of the Word of God, through the Gospel sacraments of Baptism and Eucharist, as well as other sacramental rites, and through our apostolate to the world in order that it may become the Kingdom of our God and of his Christ.
"Apostolicity is evidenced in continuity with the teaching, the ministry, and the mission of the apostles. Apostolic teaching must, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, be founded upon the Holy Scriptures and the ancient fathers and creeds, making its proclamation of Jesus Christ and his Gospel for each new age consistent with those sources, not merely reproducing them in a transmission of verbal identity. Apostolic ministry exists to promote, safeguard and serve apostolic teaching. All Christians are called to this ministry by their Baptism. In order to serve, lead and enable this ministry, some are set apart and ordained in the historic orders of Bishop, Presbyter, and Deacon. We understand the historic episcopate as central to this apostolic ministry and essential to the reunion of the Church, even as we acknowledge "the spiritual reality of the ministries of those Communions which do not possess the Episcopate" (Lambeth Appeal 1920, Section 7). Apostolic mission is itself a succession of apostolic teaching and ministry inherited from the past and carried into the present and future. Bishops in apostolic succession are, therefore, the focus and personal symbols of this inheritance and mission as they preach and teach the Gospel and summon the people of God to their mission of worship and service;
"and be it further
"Resolved, That this 67th General Convention commend to the Anglican Consultative Council this commentary as an explication of the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral to guide this Church in its ecumenical dialogues.
Citation: General Convention, Journal of the General Convention of...The Episcopal Church, New Orleans, 1982 (New York: General Convention, 1983), p. C-57.

"LEGISLATIVE HISTORY

"Author: The Standing Commission on Ecumenical Relations
Originating House: House of Bishops
Originating Committee: Committee on Ecumenical Relations

"House of Bishops

"Original Text of Resolution:

"(A047)
"Resolved, the House of Deputies concurring, That the 67th General Convention of the Episcopal Church affirm as principles on which our own unity is established, and as principles for unity with other Churches, and as a more complete explication of the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral as found on pages 976-978 in the Book of Common Prayer, without denying anything in said declaration, that:

"A mutual recognition that the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the word of God as they witness to God's action in Jesus Christ and the continuing presence of His Holy Spirit in the Church, that they are the authoritative norm for catholic faith in Jesus Christ and for the doctrinal and moral tradition of the Gospel, and that they contain all things necessary for salvation.
"A mutual recognition that the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds are the form through which the Christian Church, early in its history under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, understood, interpreted and expressed its faith in the Triune God. The continuing doctrinal tradition is the form through which the Church seeks to understand, interpret and express its faith in continuity and consistency with these ancient creeds and in its awareness of the world to which the Word of God must be preached.
A mutual recognition that the Church is the sacrament of God's presence to the world and the sign of the Kingdom for which we hope. That presence and hope are made active and real in the Church and in the individual lives of Christian men and women through the preaching of the Word of God, through the Gospel sacraments of Baptism and Eucharist, as well as other sacramental rites, and through our apostolate to the world in order that it may become the Kingdom of our God and of his Christ.
A mutual recognition that apostolicity is evidenced in continuity with the teaching, the ministry, and the mission of the apostles. Apostolic teaching must be founded upon the Holy Scriptures and the ancient fathers and creeds, drawing its proclamation of Jesus Christ and His Gospel for each new age from those sources, not merely reproducing them in a transmission of verbal identity. Apostolic ministry exists to promote, safeguard and serve apostolic teaching. All Christians are called into this ministry by their Baptism. In order to serve, lead and enable this ministry, some are set apart and ordained in the historic orders of Bishop, Presbyter, and Deacon. We understand the historic episcopate as central to this apostolic ministry and essential to the reunion of Christendom, even as we acknowledge "the spiritual reality of the ministries of those Communions which do not possess the Episcopate" (Lambeth Appeal 1920, Section 7). Apostolic mission is itself a succession of apostolic teaching and ministry inherited from the past and carried into the present and future. Bishops in apostolic succession are, therefore, the focus and personal symbols of this inheritance and mission as they preach and teach the Gospel and summon the people of God to their mission of worship and service; and be it further
"Resolved, the House of Deputies concurring, That this 67th General Convention ask the Anglican Consultative Council for advice and counsel concerning these Principles of Unity as a more complete explication of the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral to guide this Church in its ecumenical dialogues.
"Proposed Committee Amendment:

"Change the introductory paragraph of the first Resolve to read as follows:
'Resolved, the House of Deputies concurring, That the 67th General Convention of the Episcopal Church re-affirm the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral as found on pages 876-878 of the Book of Common Prayer as a statement of basic principles which express our own unity, and as a statement of essential principles for organic unity with other churches, and affirm the following as an explication of that basic document without denying anything contained therein';
"In paragraph (1), delete the first four words of the first sentence so that it begins: "The Holy Scriptures of the Old...";
"In paragraph (2), delete the first four words of the first sentence so that it begins: "The Apostles' and Nicene Creeds...";
"In paragraph (3), delete the first four words of the first sentence, so that it begins: "The Church is the sacrament..." and in the first line, change "God's presence to the world" to "God's presence in the world";
"In paragraph (4), delete the first four words of the first sentence, so that it begins: "Apostolicity is evidenced...";
"In paragraph (4), change the second sentence to read as follows: "Apostolic teaching must, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, be founded upon the Holy Scriptures and the ancient fathers and creeds, making its proclamation of Jesus Christ and his Gospel for each new age consistent with those sources, not merely reproducing them in a transmission of verbal identity";
"In paragraph (4), line 10 [i.e. the sixth sentence], substitute the words the Church for the word Christendom.


"Seconded by the Bishop of Quincy.

"Motion carried

"The Bishop of Kentucky, Chairman of the Committee on Ecumenical Relations, moved the adoption of A-47A, with an amended second Resolve clause:
"Proposed Committee Amendment:

"Substitute the following for the second Resolve in A-47:
"Resolved, the House of Deputies concurring, That this 67th Convention commend to the Anglican Consultative Council this commentary as an explication of the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral to guide this Church in its ecumenical dialogues."

"Seconded by Bishop Rose.

"Motion carried

"(Communicated to the House of Deputies in HB Message #120)


"The following Bishops requested their names be recorded as abstaining in the vote on the above resolution:

"The Bishop of Newark
"The Bishop of the Rio Grande
"The Bishop of Iowa
"The Bishop of Michigan

"House of Deputies

"On the tenth day, the Chairman of the Committee on Ecumenical Relations presented its Report #14 on Resolution A-47A (Principles of Unity) and recommended concurrence with House of Bishops Message #120.

"Motion carried

"The House concurred

"(Communicated to the House of Bishops in HD Message #253)

"Resolution Concurred by Both Houses, September 14.

"Reference: The Blue Book, p. 58f.
"Abstract: The 67th General Convention reaffirms the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral as a statement of basic principles of unity and affirms an explication of its principles."

As you can see, nothing in that Endorsement specifically states the Jesus Christ is the only way to The Father. There are (somewhat vague) references to the fact that Holy Scriptures "contain all things necessary for salvation." There is NO SPECIFIC REFERENCE to Jesus as the sole way of salvation, only to "Holy Scriptures."

It is apostasy to disbelieve the words of Christ that "no one comes to the Father, but by Me (Christ)," in order to go along and get along with the world and its religious error. The penalty for such apostasy is clearly spelled out in scripture, and has been well cited here by other posters on this thread. In my opinion, the Episcopal Church is now a cult, and is in apostasy, having failed to accept Jesus Christ as the sole way to the Father, and salvation. I pray that the Holy Spirit will convict the Church of its error, and guide The Episcopal Church back into The Church that is the Bride of Christ.

Steve Marden
Minneapolis
Dianna777
Posted: 2006/6/25 16:46  Updated: 2006/6/25 16:46
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
Thank you for the information. I am researching this. I did write to the episcopal archives to find out exactly how this was acted on in past committee that caused the DO58 to be reject it at this one. Again thank you for the information.
Dianna777
Posted: 2006/6/25 17:29  Updated: 2006/6/25 17:29
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
You are right, Jesus said, "no one comes to the Father, but by Me." I want to learn where the Episcopal Church specifically acknowledges, affirms, or re-affirms Jesus Christ as the sole way to the Father, and salvation. Holy Scriptures does contain all things necessary for salvation, but to not openly acknowledge that Jesus is the Way to the Father and our Salvation would fail to feed the sheep the Truth of His Word. I will wait to see what else I learn before coming to conclusions. THANK YOU for sending the information on A047. Perhaps the Episcopal Archives research dept. will send proofs. It seems to me convention legislation must have many places where Jesus Christ has been acknowledge as the Sole source of our Salvation and way to the Father. ~Dianna
skmarden
Posted: 2006/6/25 18:11  Updated: 2006/6/25 18:11
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
One of the voters did claim that this issue had been raised before, in 1982, but that's not the case, from my research.

It shows how deep this apostasy rabbit hole really goes.

Happy hunting : )

Steve Marden
Minneapolis, Minnesota
HanhLan
Posted: 2006/7/12 1:51  Updated: 2006/7/12 1:51
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 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
The Name of Salvation

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved" Acts 4:12.
The Bible tells us that there is no other way to be saved except through the name of Jesus. This is because only the death of Jesus on the Cross deals with the barrier between us and God - sin. Jesus is the only way back to God. This is why Jesus said:

"...I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" John 14:6.
When you accepted Jesus into your life, God linked your life with Jesus. Now, as a Christian, you are forever linked with Jesus - with His righteousness, with His authority, with His character, with His life (see Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 3:1-4).

"We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf" Hebrews 6:19-20.
Revsolly
Posted: 2006/7/24 17:15  Updated: 2006/7/24 17:15
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From: Florida
Posts: 1
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ
I can't say that I am shocked by this action. However, as a fellow Christian from a Pentacostal background, I am grieving for you who are in this denomination. You have been abandoned by your "leaders". Just remember that this has been a long time in coming. These people purposed long ago to get into their positions so as to effect the kinds of changes that your denomination has been subjected to.
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