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GC2006 : COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Posted by David Virtue on 2006/6/20 15:10:00 (5766 reads)

COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint

By Hans Zeiger and Auburn Traycik
www.virtueonline.org

COLUMBUS, OHIO (6/20/06)-The House of Deputies of the 75th Episcopal General Convention today rejected a resolution urging that the whole church "refrain from" the consecration of bishops "whose manner of life presents a challenge to the wider church," as well as from authorizing rites for homosexual unions.

The action on Resolution A161 may mean that the General Convention will make no response at all to the 2004 Windsor Report's requested moratorium on the consecration of further actively gay bishops and on same-sex blessings.

"Nothing's over until 6 p.m. tomorrow, but the direction is pretty clear," said the Rev. Martyn Minns of the American Anglican Council (AAC). The Episcopal Church (TEC) is "not willing to embrace the minimum requirements of the Windsor Report" on the homosexual issue.

The "House of Initial Action" (HIA) for A161 was the House of Deputies, and that house having defeated it, the House of Bishops cannot take it up. A move to reconsider A161 also failed in the Deputies.

With the convention due to conclude tomorrow, early indications were that a scramble is now on to produce some sort of response to Windsor in the House of Bishops. One rumor was that Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold was "frantic" about it.

The powers that be could turn to a related resolution for which the House of Bishops serves as HIA, Resolution A162, on public same-sex blessing rites. That resolution, now pending in the House of Bishops, had been targeted for discharge if the new A161, which addressed both gay bishops and blessings, was adopted. It may be (though it has not been officially confirmed) that both subjects can be addressed in A162 - if the bishops amend it. With the failure of A161 in the Deputies today, though, there is a question about whether any call for restraint can get through both houses. Other Windsor-related resolutions, already acted on by one house or another, could be targeted as vehicles for adequate response.

A161 was produced as a result of painstaking work by the Special Committee on the Episcopal Church and Anglican Communion, which tried valiantly to produce a compromise palatable to all in response to Windsor. The Windsor requests were made in the wake of the 2003 Episcopal General Convention's approval of gay cleric Gene Robinson as Bishop of New Hampshire and same-sex blessings, which created a crisis in the Anglican Communion.

As presented, A161 would have had the convention "urge" that the church "refrain from the nomination, consent to, and consecration of bishops whose manner of life presents a challenge to the wider church and will lead to further strains on communion; agree that the convention "not proceed to develop or authorize" gay blessing rites "at this time"; affirm "the need to maintain a breadth of responses to situations of pastoral care for gay and lesbian Christians"; and "apologize to those gay and lesbian Episcopalians and their supporters hurt by these decisions."

"Hold your nose if you have to, and then vote yes," the Rev. Daniel Martins, a deputy from San Joaquin and a member of the Special Committee, told the House of Deputies.

Clearly, however, while some saw the resolution as a way forward, it drew opposition from those on both sides of the issue, but both for different reasons.

During debate on A161, the Rev. Kendall Harmon, canon theologian of the conservative Diocese of South Carolina, said, "The problem is that the language of the resolution is totally unclear...The water in this resolution is murky...and I can't see...All the language of this resolution moves away from the clarity of Windsor."

The Very Rev. Dr. Peter Cook of the Diocese of Western Louisiana called A161 a "non-response response" to Windsor. Noting the resolution's "evasive" language, he said "this resolution in this form will not entitle us to remain members of the worldwide Anglican family."

But the Rev. Jane Gould, rector of St. Stephen's Episcopal Church in Massachusetts, told deputies, "I do wonder whether we're being faithful to the spirit when we exclude a group of people based on who they are."

And the Rev. Dr. Ruth Meyers of Seabury Episcopal Seminary in Chicago rejected the appeal of Special Committee member Becky Snow to "accept crucifixion." "I cannot do that to my gay and lesbian colleagues," said Meyers.

One clerical deputy said he opposed A161 because he thought it was the result of "coercive messages" from other parts of the Communion rather than unhindered dialogue. It assumes that the 2003 General Convention was not careful or prayerful about its pro-gay decisions, he said.

An attempt by the Rev. Christopher Cantrell, deputy from the conservative Diocese of Fort Worth, to put forward a substitute which clearly called for the moratoria requested by the 2004 Windsor Report was ruled out of order. VOL is seeking clarification on the reasons for this, but it appears to have been due to language seen as calling for the convention to exceed its canonical or constitutional authority. Challenges to the ruling were unsuccessful.

Fr. Minns said the deputies' defeat of A161 "shows that the Special Committee was asked to do an impossible job," and that "the gap is unbridgeable. It reveals that within this convention there are two different churches with two irreconcilable truth claims."

However he said "these two churches were united in their desire for clarity." What is clear, he believes, is that TEC will not meet minimum requirements of Windsor.

"Unhappily," he added, "this decision seems to show that ECUSA has chosen to walk apart from the rest of the Anglican Communion."

The vote totals on Resolution A161 were as follows.

In the lay order 109 votes were cast; 38 in favor, 53 against, 18 divided (divided counts as a no).

In the clerical order 111 votes were cast; 44 in favor, 53 against, 14 divided.

END

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Poster Thread
Hogan
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:11  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:11
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/2/12
From: southwest
Posts: 1189
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Please, please, please! ECUSA, please walk apart. Get lost. You have embraced the God of relativism and pansexuality - now let her save you. Go, walk apart and leave us alone.
ZachD
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:17  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:26
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/10
From:
Posts: 1782
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Anyone out there aware of 'reactions' and 'equal and opposite reactions'? Or spiritual laws?

We are now in the midst of an unfolding that cannot be stopped. Our wrangling has collectively brought us to this point. Glorious!, and with the whole world watching, not to mention the Communion of Saints, Powers of the air, and Angels of God!

The best we can do now is fervent prayer for the advancement of God's will for all of our lives! The tension in which we now live will not continue forever.

God will again proceed with His plans. I cannot imagine how short our rope actually is! Can our rebellion be greater?

Have mercy, Lord!
Hogan
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:20  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:20
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/2/12
From: southwest
Posts: 1189
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
And with this rejection, let's all hope that the conservatives in the Anglican Communion give ECUSA a swift kick in her pants (or should I say skirts) and drum her out of the corps.
HowieG
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:23  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:23
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/1
From: Central Massachusetts
Posts: 231
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
"The Episcopal Church" to the Anglican Communion: Go to Hell, go directly to Hell, do not pass Heaven, do not collect 2 million USA+ souls.

In the end, it will be the new religion (note lower case), that goes to Hell.
yaya2
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:27  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:27
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/6/12
From: Arkansas
Posts: 29
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Walk apart......walk away...........it seems to me, as cynical as I have become, that it is now down to the real estate for the conservatives AND the New church.

My feeling now is..........move out of my way, I have to get out before it is too late.....and by the way, God, I'm sorry I waited so long!!
hobbit
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:28  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:28
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2005/3/1
From: ireland
Posts: 122
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
The day the music died - bye bye Mr ECUSA pie.

i think this marks the end of ECUSA in the Anglican communion - but let us be honest what does it matter? the anglican communion is not that important in reality or in eternity. what is important is that the gospel of Jesus Christ has been damaged by ECUSA not just today but for decades. how many souls have been led away from Christ and the Cross to another gospel? They have failed to heed the warning of Christ about damaging the little ones. They are truly anti-christ in their teaching and practice and we should hand them over to satan as Paul instructs us to do.
hobbit
Cennydd
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:32  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:33
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6684
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Hogan, it's over....finished....kaput! Everything but the gloating of the revisionist heretics! They can gloat until Kingdom Come....but they'll be doing it from the Pits of Hell! They'll sit at Satan's table, but they won't like what he has to offer them, we can be damned sure of that!

In the meantime, I'm going to celebrate the rebirth of orthodox Anglican Christianity....and I hope you will, too!

Cennydd
Anglophile
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:33  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:33
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2005/7/6
From: Rochester,NY
Posts: 149
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
"let us hope the conservatives give ecusa a kick in the pants(skirts)...." Yeah right just like Bishop Howe. Want to bet Bishop Duncan is next to fall in line? These gentlemen should never have postured if they did not have the backbone to follow thru. It is '76-'79 all over again. The liberals said:" they will never leave" then and now and they were right.
Damascus
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:33  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:33
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Even in the nuanced world in which the Archbishop of Canterbury resides, this should be about as clear to him as if Frank Griswold had given him a kick in the nads.

In a Communion that has a preference for avoiding confrontation and for speaking with understatement, there is nothing understated about this.

Windsor Report.
We don't need no stinking Windsor Report!
ZachD
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:36  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:39
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/10
From:
Posts: 1782
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
You Bet, Cennydd!

Me too.
To borrow a phrase, a phoenix will rise from the ashes. But wait for it! We are not there yet!

Hold the overreaction, everyone!
hobbit
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:39  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:39
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2005/3/1
From: ireland
Posts: 122
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Damascus
you forget they are slow learners in the hierarchy of anglicanism. If there is wriggle room watch them wriggle. a positive spin will be put on everything and we will all be encouraged to take time to study what has actually been said and to listen, listen, listen. the problem is we will be asked to listen to the spiritually dead!

Truthfully - who cares that ECUSA is going on its own. in terms of world christianity it is a sect. in terms of Anglicanism it punches above its weight only because it has the finances - but money isnt our God. sometimes you have to lance the boil in order to bring healing - now is the time to lance the boil of ECUSA and to bring healing - but the truth is ECUSA is only one of many parts of the Anglican communion with this cancer of liberal revisionist agenda growing - my own church included.
hobbit
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:40  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:40
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Hogan is absolutely correct. We all must decide what side of the fence that we want to be found on at the Judgement. ECUSick doesn't believe Scripture, that Christ Jesus suffered and died for us. They are apparently absolutely positive that there will be no judgement.

As for myself, I'm not taking any chances: I've decided a long time ago to believe in and follow my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and to follow His inviolate Word.

Please ECUSA, walk your own path and let the rest of Chrisendom walk the narrow path. Please leave us alone.
Hogan
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:41  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:43
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/2/12
From: southwest
Posts: 1189
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Of course, it was really all over many years ago. In thinking of my time in ECUSA, which I left around 1993, I trace much of the demise of the Episcopal Church to its worship of innovation and cultural relativism. The milestones of her demise began with the casting away of the King James Version of the Bible in favor of the New English Bible. Then, women were made priests, another milestone, and bishops who were rank heretics were allowed to remain in their positions of authority rather than being reprimanded. They denied the resurrection and the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. But, they were not turned out, they were simply ignored. People hoped for a better tomorrow, but they only got a more wicked and evil today. It is the little foxes which spoil the grapes - Satan came into the church and bit by bit by bit took it over. The people in the pews slept through the takeover, lulled by the beautiful liturgy, and then awoke and found a host of demons. Satan wore a bishop's hat, tall and pointed, to cover his horns!!!! And he smiled at everbody and called his sermons teachings of the Holy Spirit. It was too late - and now it is gone.
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:45  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:45
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
HowieG wrote:

In the end, it will be the new religion (note lower case), that goes to Hell.

Just a thought from an aspiring writer, the word cult is tidier and a bit more accurate than "new religion.
djmalone
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:53  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:53
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/12
From: Tulsa, Ok.
Posts: 8
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
If there was ever any doubt that Satan exists, one would only need to read the reports of the 2006 convention.
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:54  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:54
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
I'm looking into the Reformed Episcopal Church, hopefully to plant a church in my home town. The services look like what I grew up with in the 50's. The BCP they use is almost like the 1928 BCP. Just minor differences, very minor.
yaya2
Posted: 2006/6/20 22:03  Updated: 2006/6/20 22:03
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/6/12
From: Arkansas
Posts: 29
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Please consider the United Episcopal Church....it is wonderful! It is small but very conservative, biblical based, 1928 BCP and the PB is located in Statesville, NC.
rossi
Posted: 2006/6/20 22:21  Updated: 2006/6/20 22:21
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Redcar, England
Posts: 639
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
The party is finishing,and tomorow or thursday
the general cleaning( the second reformation)
will start.And Ronan Cantuar will need to say very clearly where he stands.Is time to kick
the heretics out, and here in England we have
loads of them.
frrisco
Posted: 2006/6/20 22:40  Updated: 2006/6/20 22:40
Just popping in
Joined: 2005/12/29
From:
Posts: 11
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
I would wish all of you a fond farewell, but it seems that most of you dozen or so regulars have already left the Episcopal Church anyway. Makes me wonder why you're even continuing to post things on this site. I have been tracking Mr. Virtue's articles and your responses since last week. I will say that you have mostly been vituperative, sarcastic and foul-mouthed. I'd expected better and more reasoned responses. How in the world do you expect to attract Christians to your cause when you appear to be so hateful? I realize you are not all filled with hate, but your messages on this site imply that you certainly are.
Cennydd
Posted: 2006/6/20 22:55  Updated: 2006/6/20 22:56
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6684
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Yep, yaya2, and at least he hasn't got himself and his wife ensconced in a Church-owned million-dollar penthouse on 5th Avenue, like Griswold has!

Cennydd
Caroll
Posted: 2006/6/20 23:08  Updated: 2006/6/21 2:13
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/2/22
From:
Posts: 289
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Live blog from
Matt Kennedy+
BREAKING: PB CALLS FOR JOINT SESSION OF GC

BREAKING: Presiding Bishop Griswold Calls a Joint Session of the General Convention TOMORROW________________________________________
June 20, 4:31 pm
joining floor debate in progress...

I was getting something to eat only to come in and find that A162 has hit the house of bishops and the debate is moving forward.

I join it in progress:

Here is the proposed legislation:

Resolved, the House of-------concurring that the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church not proceed to develop or authorize Rites for the Blessings of same sex unions at this time, thereby concurring with the WR in its exhortation to bishops of the Anglican Communion to honor the Primates Pastoral Letter of May 2003; and be it further Resolved that this General Convention affirm the need to maintain a breadth of responses to situations of pastoral care for gay and lesbian Christians in this Church; and be it further Resolved that the 75th General Convention regrets the extent to which we have, by aciton and inaction, contributed to strains on communion and caused deep offense to many faithful Anglican Christians as we consented to the consecration of a bishop living openly in a same gender union; and be it further Resolved, that the 75th GC urge nominating committees, electing conventions, Standing Committees, and bishops with jurisdiction to refrain from the nomination, election, consent to, and consecration of bishops whose manner of life presents a challenge to the wider church and will lead to further strains on communion; and be it further Resolved that the 75th General Convention apologize to those gay and lesbian Episcopalians and their supporters hurt by these decisions joining floor debate in progress...

continued on the blog site.
C

Also check out http://gencon06.classicalanglican.net/
Looks like things are heating up
Caroll
Posted: 2006/6/20 23:14  Updated: 2006/6/20 23:16
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/2/22
From:
Posts: 289
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
From Anglican Mainstream http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=439
Recent News


Gene Robinson on response to Windsor
Tuesday June 20th 2006, 10:58 pm
Filed under: Uncategorized Link to: this post
The gist of Gene Robinson’s address to the House of Bishops on the response to Windsor. This does not claim to be verbatim.

I have never spoken ill of the Archbishop of Canterbury’s request not to travel to any province till after Windsor Report.

I constantly and consistently point to God’s grace. My agenda will continue to be Jesus. I want to help you. I have been up since 4 a.m. worrying and praying about the Anglican Communion. I am wanting to stay a part of this beloved church. I cannot do so at the expense of my own integrity and those of my brother and sisters lesbian and gay. Will I exercise caution in giving consent? Absolutely. But I cannot promise to withhold consent from a whole category of people sight unseen. I have agonised over these days about how to reconcile two conflicting desires – to commitment to gays to lead this church and my commitment to the Anglican Communion. How can we enable gays and lesbians in leadership and also show commitment to the communion. We have allowed forces outside our church to influence this decision. The Pharisees posed questions to Jesus and tried to trap him into the only right answer. Can we not shape our own answer? Perhaps they are not the right questions. The Windsor Report is the beginning not the ending of a conversation. Cannot we see a way forward that preserves integrity and commitment to communion?

I do not know what humility looks like. I am looking for a faithful way forward. We have responded to 10 out of 11 of the questions of Windsor. What would be wrong with saying to our Anglican Partners, we have with one exception come to a mind. On this one question we are not of one mind. This church speaks only when all of this church speaks. A great part of this church has responded no. The deputies said no. We have made an extraordinary effort to be as honest as we can be. We are not of a mind and cannot come to a mind between HoD and HoB. Listen to one another to see where the spirit might be leading us. I cannot vote for any kind of resolution that by category excludes part of our church.
Causidicus
Posted: 2006/6/20 23:18  Updated: 2006/6/20 23:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/3
From:
Posts: 1065
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
It's beginning to look a lot like....Judgment Time.
ArthurDoxy
Posted: 2006/6/20 23:30  Updated: 2006/6/21 1:23
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/3/1
From: Albany Diocese
Posts: 265
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
++FTG appears to be caught in a vice of his own making. You can get the details at:

http://gencon06.classicalanglican.net/
JRoss
Posted: 2006/6/20 23:40  Updated: 2006/6/20 23:40
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/3/15
From: New Jersey
Posts: 895
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Frisky writes:""I would wish all of you a fond farewell, but it seems that most of you dozen or so regulars have already left the Episcopal Church anyway. Makes me wonder why you're even continuing to post things on this site. I have been tracking Mr. Virtue's articles and your responses since last week. I will say that you have mostly been vituperative, sarcastic and foul-mouthed. I'd expected better and more reasoned responses. How in the world do you expect to attract Christians to your cause when you appear to be so hateful? I realize you are not all filled with hate, but your messages on this site imply that you certainly are."""

What exactly do you expect when many here have watched a vibrant and Christ driven church evaporate in front of our eyes because we did not speak our minds sooner? Personally I put up with the liberal garbage for over 30 years of making nice. Why do those of us who have left for other denominations still post here? This may be hard for you to understand, but we are brothers and sisters in Christ who in reality practice diversity by sticking together against those who take the name of our Lord and carelessly use it to further the things Scripture plainly tells us are sins against Him. No matter what denomination we have joined. If you thought the silent majority would not raise it's voice when pushed, you might contact John Kerry and he would clue you in about underestimating that fact that you liberals do not speak for the people.


And not related the above reply;
I welcome back a sister in Christ, Hogan:)
Damascus
Posted: 2006/6/20 23:42  Updated: 2006/6/20 23:45
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Step one for the gay pressure groups was to get the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality as a disorder from their diagnosis book. The gays like to present this fact as though it were some triumph of science but the fact is they accomplished this by repeatedly disrupting the APA annual convention. There was no shift in the scientific data, merely a desire by the APA to get out of the cross-hairs. The decision came with hardly any reflection at all. After the decision had been forced upon them, then people started to coalesce around the decision. They were helped by the fact that psychiatry and the social sciences in general are a magnet for homosexuals. All those guys whose mothers didn't love them searching for why they are so screwed up. When activist gays start getting active in the committees of their professional organizations, it doesn't take long before the doctrine begins to shift without some people even noticing it. It took years for some within the psychiatric community to finally realize how they had been used. At least one of the principal campaigners within the APA to make this change has now admitted that he may have been in error.

The next target was the churches. Now that they had tricked the world into the notion that homosexuality was not a disorder, the chief rationale for opposing it was on moral grounds. The clear meaning of Scripture and church tradition were a powerful impediment to them reaching their goals. The solution was to find a few small but relatively influential churches that didn't take the Bible very seriously and try to make headway there. Once they had achieved some success here they could make the argument that their really was no moral argument against homosexuality. They used the progress made with the APA to buttress the notion that we now have a better understanding of homosexuality than we did before and that the Bible is irrelevant to this discussion. That is the line that you have heard Frank Griswold parroting for the last nine years. The election of Gene Robinson presented them with an opportunity to make a leap forward. Even though it was against the written doctrines of the church, they made a big push and got the consent from the bishops. Once they had one gay bishop, it was a lot easier to start to completely change the churches doctrine. Most of that has been accomplished in GC2006 and what little remains can be done in GC2009. This follows the usual pattern. They get one victory that is walked into without a lot of reflection, and then they use that to leverage still further gains. Each step builds upon the other.

They now have the APA saying it is not a disorder and at least a few churches saying as Gene Robinson did in 2003 that gay sex is a "gift from God."

Now that they have done a bit to undermine the medical and religious opinion with regard to homosexuality, it is now time to take on the government. That is the phase that we have been in since the Gene Robinson election. Get a few friendly judges to rule gay marriage unconstitutional and then hope that once it becomes a fait accompli in one place, that will help legitimize it everywhere. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court did there part in 2004. They can now point to one state that has completely adopted the GLBT agenda.

They have also used the courts to get religion and moral and ethical training completely removed from the public school classroom. While Heather may have two Mommies, and that will be celebrated, Tommy had better not dare say a word about Jesus Christ in school or he will be sitting at home with a suspension. You can thank the efforts of other leftist and anti-religion pressure groups such as the National Education Association, American Federation of Teachers, and the American Civil Liberties Union for this. Our children are now presented with a very stilted and pro-gay picture at school. Kids are now being taught about the virtues of tolerance of everything and how wrong that it is to judge anything. This is of course true until it comes time for the educational establishment to heap disparagement on the backwardness of Bible believing Christians.

We are just at the beginning of stage three. Most legislatures will not approve gay marriage on their own. It is only the influence of activist judges that accounts for their limited success. They do not yet have majority support of the electorate even in a far left state such as Massachusetts. That is where their progress in the school system comes into play. What do you think is going to happen when Heather and Tommy are old enough to vote? After having had this pro-sodomy agenda rammed down their throats for twelve years in public school and then being browbeat with it by leftist academics at the university level, do you think their opinions will be the same as their parents?

This is not just a battle for the soul of the Episcopal church. It would appear that battle has long since been lost. It is important to remember that each block of the GLBT strategy is dependent on what has occurred before to legitimize what they are trying to do now. It is crucial that the the Episcopal Church is anathematized by other Christians so that this victory is not a building block that furthers their agenda. Traditional Christians must leave ECUSA. Traditional Diocese must leave ECUSA and must begin to provide cover for traditional parishes in apostate diocese. The Anglican Communion must make it clear that the gospel that ECUSA is now preaching is not the received Gospel of Jesus Christ. While it is important to your souls to be free of ECUSA and its false doctrine, it is also important to the future of the country and to civilization itself that this victory become a Pyrrhic one for the GLBT forces and their liberal fellow travellers.
spbarrett
Posted: 2006/6/20 23:56  Updated: 2006/6/20 23:56
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/19
From: Hippie Valley, W. Mass.
Posts: 17
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Turn out the lights, the party's over . . .

for the TEC, only it doesn't know what it's done to itself.
Damascus
Posted: 2006/6/21 0:18  Updated: 2006/6/21 0:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Christians will be attracted to our cause because they will recognize it speaks God's truth. We are spreading the Gospel that we received from the Apostles. Those people who are Christians will discern correct teaching from false teaching and they will tend to affiliate with those who are preaching the truth.

I would turn the question around on you. How do you expect to attract people to your cause? By supporting every cock-eyed left wing social movement? By passing resolutions that criticize the Word of God? By blessing the unions of persons engaged in immoral practices? By elevating a person engaged in such an immoral partnership to the highest levels of leadership in the Church?

I would suggest that you go ahead and work your plan and let us go ahead and work our plan. In the coming years our numbers will grow while yours shrink. More importantly than success in this world, I think that our movement will be judged by the number of souls that we help find their way into a relationship with the Lord, and into his eternal kingdom.

I know that being in ECUSA you may not believe that Heaven and Hell actually exist. For all I know you may not believe in the Triune God of the Bible. You and your colleagues in ECUSA have chosen to embrace a gospel that is of this world, while we have chosen service to the God of Abraham and his son, our Lord and Savior.
Gideon_FL
Posted: 2006/6/21 0:21  Updated: 2006/6/21 0:21
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/8/25
From: SW FL
Posts: 169
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Frisky's post is typical of type. How can she know how many we are? Many of us are still in ECUSA, not foul-mouthed or vituperative, etc. etc. How typical to take her experience and generalize to the entire environment. How NOT biblical. Thanks for your post, ma'am, we appreciate being reminded of what we are NOT.

The glass is half full!
cheers/gideon
Gideon_FL
Posted: 2006/6/21 0:30  Updated: 2006/6/21 0:30
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/8/25
From: SW FL
Posts: 169
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
hobbit wrote: i think this marks the end of ECUSA in the Anglican communion - but let us be honest what does it matter? the anglican communion is not that important in reality or in eternity. what is important is that the gospel of Jesus Christ has been damaged by ECUSA not just today but for decades

exactly right, halfling.
the anglican communion is NOT important, but every member of the Body of Christ is. the time has come to destroy the false idol fka ECUSA and reconnect the faithful to His precious Body.
Truthseekr
Posted: 2006/6/21 0:36  Updated: 2006/6/21 0:36
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From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru )
Posts: 784
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Quote:
Poster: frrisco Posted: 2006/6/20 21:40:54

I'd expected better and more reasoned responses. How in the world do you expect to attract Christians to your cause when you appear to be so hateful? I realize you are not all filled with hate, but your messages on this site imply that you certainly are.


Hello padre frrisco,

The internet is kind of the wild west of the 21 century.

You have people here who are wondering what to do next.

You have people here, that are honestly wondering who Jesus Christ really is.

You have people here, that do not share a mutual purpose with you/us of seeking Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They have a dark side purpose.

They want to share a false gospel of sin and squandering things holy.

Many of them want to recruit children, our children, your children?, and all into a lifestyle that treasures sinful activities. A life style that brings early deaths from avoidable diseases. These folks do not want to be good news gospel friends with their hatred of Holy Scriptures and hatred of the power of Jesus Christ to set people free of sexual slavery. Most have a hatred for the Holy Scriptures, which gives the only TESTS for the mature Disciple to tell the difference between the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of the anti-christ...

It is very hard to show your soft side, to people that know better, but still choose to push a culture of death thru sexual immorality and abortion and non-repentance of sin to the children...

Telling someone the truth of the risk to their health, and their eternal spirit is not hate... it is love to tell the truth of the good news gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is hate for gencon06 to support trashing the bible, elevating sin, and making fun of the Holy...
gotc86
Posted: 2006/6/21 0:52  Updated: 2006/6/21 0:52
Just popping in
Joined: 2005/4/20
From:
Posts: 15
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
My heart is breaking.

I pray that Bishop Duncan will lead his diocese (of which I am a member) away from TEC. I don't want to leave my parish becaus we have a wonderful church family, but I can't subscribe to the doctrines of what TEC has openly become.

Dang. My husband and I have made arrangemnts for our ashes to be interred in the grounds of the church. I guess it would be worse if we were already there...

(trying to inject a very little levity into a very traumatic day.)
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 1:16  Updated: 2006/6/21 1:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Friends,

A new member, Freezion (aka Christo) has asked for information about *faithful* Anglican churches in the Palm Coast area of Florida (I think I have that right), as he and his family are moving there soon. His message is on the thread entitled "GC2006 : COLUMBUS, OH: The triumph of the New Episcopal Religion". If anyone has information about this, can they please reply to his post or else PM him?

Regards
Michael
OtisPage
Posted: 2006/6/21 1:35  Updated: 2006/6/21 1:56
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/4
From:
Posts: 667
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
THERE IS NO SURPRISE HERE!!

Minn's state's, "this decision seems to show that ECUSA has chosen to walk apart from the rest of the Anglican Communion."

Minns and other Episcopalians are now recognizing the bitter fruit of their own dismission of the Satanic threat evident for years as manifested in the homosexual takeover (and makeover) of ECUSA, now corrupted to be called TEC.

All these fine conservative leaders within ECUSA, while long on rhetoric, are short on courage to face the fact that by their inaction the homosexuals have taken over.

Minns says, "this decision seems" where the obvious reality is one of finality: TEC is saying go "shove it" Anglican Communion.

Virtue's chronicle establishes the factual record of this surrender to a minority of homosexuals led by Louie Crew, Spong and Griwold, et al.

The Communion Primates saw it coming -- and they acted!

But not the conservative leadership in ECUSA (not including the small number of courageous Anglican Episcopalians who previously left).

They have been leaning on their pensions, and have sold out ECUSA and the true orthodoxy of the Anglican faith. This as surely as those "traditors" of the past (284-315 AD) gave up their Scriptures.

The homosexuals now control the finances, trust funds, church assets and pension accounts of a once great church. It is a financial slam dunk!

Cranmer is shamed! And TEC is thrown over to itself consistent with the teaching of God's wrath as revealed in Rom 1:18-32.

Will those true orthodox conservatives leave? I doubt it!!
ZachD
Posted: 2006/6/21 2:06  Updated: 2006/6/21 2:06
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/10
From:
Posts: 1782
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Very astute posts, Damascus, and all quite true!
I am impressed with your knowledge base. Although I have documentation on how the 'APA was won' (Or lost!), a psychiatrist friend of mine had just returned from an APA convention, where their discipline is currently being brow-beaten to accept full gay inclusion. And you guessed it, the Christians in their midst are being ostracized. I am told that for about 3 years now, it is [unprofessional, or worse] to contravene a same-sex position, in clinical practise.

Looking beyond the USA, several Parliaments have already sanctioned gay civil rights/sex/marriage in some form.

The enemy of our souls has been busy indeed!
Joe of the Mountain
Posted: 2006/6/21 2:07  Updated: 2006/6/21 2:10
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/3
From:
Posts: 3472
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Pathetic weakling losers with your "Emily Post Uber Alles" attitude are how the US of A got into this deadly cess-pool in the first place.

Let me tell you something, "padre": as a 21 y.o. frat boy I took on Syrian drug dealers in my fraternity house. They threatened to kill me. I won.

In the 1990s I took on the entire Feminazi establishment of Penn State -- plus the homosexuals, plus the race agitators -- and beat them, too.

I have suffered death threats, bomb threats, false police charges, spitting, fighting, burned newspaper bonfires and painted swatikas. Not to mention ostracism and pariah status for my efforts.

Phony, mealy-mouthed losers like you don't even have the balls to take sides, let alone join the fight.

I have no use for those whose only contribution to the kulturkampf is to smashmouth those who are fighting on the front lines and paying a very real price for it.
Philippa
Posted: 2006/6/21 2:53  Updated: 2006/6/21 2:53
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/8/28
From:
Posts: 489
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Uh, as if this surprises anybody?

Now, the self-serving Frank Tracy will run around like a chicken with his head cut off for the next 24 hours trying to fudge all this in the HOB, not for the good of anyone but himself--he'd rather look partially bad instead of totally bad.

Everybody should read Damascus's posts, as they are spot-on. As I've said before, Sam Silver's essay "Some of My Best Friends are Gay" on the towardtradition.org website also outlines these phenomena in an honest, organized, and well-documented way.

They can go for it all they want, but the Anti-Christ misdirecteds will never win this...

In the Real One,

Philippa
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/21 3:57  Updated: 2006/6/21 3:57
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Excellent post Damascas!

God Bless

BHTech
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 6:05  Updated: 2006/6/21 6:05
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Otis Page,

Well said, mate. Putting the blame where it lies.

By the way, has anyone responded to Freezion with information about faithful churches in the Palm Coast area of Florida??? If we cannot do something positive like guiding a believer to one of the good churches, then what use are we?
David_Fine
Posted: 2006/6/21 13:03  Updated: 2006/6/21 13:05
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/3/29
From: Madison, WI
Posts: 321
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
To those of you in the conversation:

The news is coming too fast and furious to be able to see the final outcome.

It was clear before convention that ECUSA was not going to make a major change.

However, the shape of things in the future depend on (1) the actions of GC until it adjourns (2) the official responses of groups and persons (Archbishop of Canturbury, Network, courts of law regarding ownership of property, etc.)

I'm not ready to cheer any apparent advantage out of the realization that the rug may be pulled out from under our feet.

David
ZachD
Posted: 2006/6/21 16:38  Updated: 2006/6/21 16:38
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/10
From:
Posts: 1782
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: Deputies Reject Windsor Call For Restraint
Yes, true. A bit of a waiting game, yet..

But - at the very least, repercussions of a godly sort can finally occur!

Praise God, who remains BIGGER, and ABOVE all!
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