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GC2006 : VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Day After...opposition mounts...
Posted by David Virtue on 2006/6/19 18:50:00 (6900 reads)

"Every Christian is called to be different from the world. Indeed, if you do not like the word 'holy' because it sounds too pious to you, try the word 'different'. It is exactly what the word 'holy' means. Somebody who is holy is somebody who is different. He is set apart from the world unto God; his standards are not worldly but godly. He is different." --From 'God's Man: Studies in 2 Timothy' by John R. W. Stott.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
www.virtueonline.org
6/19/2006

The BBC is calling the new Presiding Bishop "Hurricane Katharine." Indeed, it appears she has taken Episcopal conservatives and will take the wider Anglican Communion by storm. She has some laudable credits: She is a wife and mother, an oceanographer, and a pilot. But she is also a liberal, pro-gay bishop and now a primate who the Archbishop of Canterbury diplomatically says will have an "impact" on collegiality among Anglican primates, both because of her doctrine and her gender.

It is fitting that an oceanographer should now lead this church - a storm-tossed ship separated from the shores of traditional faith, practice and spirituality.

The election of Jefforts Schori was a mild surprise to the global South primates, said a source familiar with their thinking. He proffered two different reactions.

The first is that the election of the lady of Nevada was sufficient to demonstrate that the Episcopal Church (TEC) intended to walk alone (or perhaps only with any likeminded province that cares to walk with it). The second is that in order to be sure of the mind of TEC, the leaders mustwait for the full content of its responses to the Windsor Report.

At this writing it appears that the resolutions concerning the Report will fall short of the standard required by the primates of the global South and of the Windsor Report itself. Just last night the House of Deputies decided that the church had merely "strained" rather than "breached" the "bonds of affection" by its General Convention 2003 decisions.

RESOLUTION 160 passed House of Deputies 563 (67.8%) to 267 (32.2%). It reads:

Resolved, the House of Bishops concurring, that the 75th General Convention of The Episcopal Church, mindful of "the repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation enjoined on us by Christ" (Windsor Report, paragraph 134), express its regret for straining the bonds of affection in the events surrounding the General Convention of 2003 and the consequences which followed; offer its sincerest apology to those within our Anglican Communion who are offended by our failure to accord sufficient importance to the impact of our actions on our church and other parts of the Communion; and ask forgiveness as we seek to live into deeper levels of communion one with another."

By Wednesday, the last day of the convention, we shall know the precise wording of the three important resolutions - though there is also some possibility that, like the Title IV revisions, they will not be completed before the convention ends.

A LITTLE bit of history regarding the new Presiding Bishop. In February of 2005 VOL reported Bishop Schori was fast-tracked into the episcopate, for reasons that still remain unclear. But a VirtueOnline reader tells the following story about Ms Schori on the occasion of the death of her mother, Elaine Ryan. Here is what he wrote:

"Elaine had converted from ECUSA to the Orthodox Church, and went to church at St. Spiridon Cathedral in Seattle, where I also attend. Her husband had dropped her. It seems he didn't go for her religious change. She had planned to become a nun at the women's monastery in Ellwood City, PA. This was tragically cut short by a small plane crash that ultimately left her unable to care for herself. When she passed away in 1998, her daughter,(Jefforts Schori) then a cleric in Oregon did the funeral rather than get her an Orthodox burial. Now, at the very least this is not honoring her mother, who not only left ECUSA, but also was utterly opposed to women's ordination. That she had her funeral in ECUSA with a woman priest is doubly insulting. The eulogy featured a dismissive comment about mom's 'spiritual journey' that led her even to the Orthodox Church...I expect the same would have been said if she had become a Moonie. I know how she feels about former Anglicans who become *actual* Orthodox, even if it's her mother." VOL has been on top of this situation for the last year.

As the shock of the election of a female bishop to be the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church is settling in, the president Forward in Faith North America, Bishop Keith Ackerman noted that, with the introduction of the ordination of women as priests 30 years ago (at first illegally), it was inevitable that women would be ordained as bishops, with the potential of a female bishop becoming presiding bishop.

"However, on the heels of the election and consecration three years ago of a man living in a same-sex relationship, it would appear that the Episcopal Church has neither sensitivity nor concern for its relationship with the rest of the Anglican Communion," Ackerman said. Despite appeals from primates and other bishops around the world asking the American Church to apologize for its rupturing of the bonds of affection, TEC has continued to press on without any obvious concern for the fragile state of the Communion, he said.

FIF-North America has now, likewise, been pushed to the limit in its fragile relationship with TEC. The officers of FIF-NA will be discussing future plans, and after consultation with worldwide Anglican leaders will issue a statement. FIF-NA will not repeat the mistakes of the Episcopal Church by acting unilaterally, without regard for those who must be involved in decisionmaking that affects the lives of all who call themselves "Anglicans."

TEC IS STILL pro-abortion, the convention show. Abortion may not be in favored by local churches, Rev. Canon Elizabeth Keaton, Diocese of New Jersey, suggested, but "we are deputized to follow the Holy Spirit, not the wishes of the folks back home." Abortion remains an endorsed choice for those women who wish to avail themselves of it.

Roman Catholic writer, Fr. Richard John Neuhaus, writes in FIRST THINGS that the election of Katharine Jefferts Schori as TEC's leader is an occasion of great sadness for all who care about the unity of Christians. "Those who have always been skeptical of the ecumenical effort may well say, 'I told you so,' and indulge in a measure of schadenfreude. That is not, I would suggest, a faithfully Catholic response." http://www.firstthings.com/

A statement of the Colorado Springs-based Anglican Communion Institute, a think tank, responded with deep concern over the potential negative significance for the Windsor process of Katherine Jefferts Schori's election as PB. She backed Gene Robinson and same-sex blessings at GC2003; has developed formal permission for such celebrations in the Diocese of Nevada; and has defended TEC's autonomy in a way that stands counter to the Windsor Report's articulation of communion, the Institute said. If she does not repudiate these actions and positions, "her place in primatial meetings within the Communion is clearly in doubt, and her ability to lead [TEC] as a member of the Anglican Communion is deeply in question."

IT IS CLEAR that the Episcopal Church's line in the sand has now been written in concrete. It will continue its political goals. The election of the gay Bishop of New Hampshire, intensified the turmoil. Now the election of Katherine Jefferts Schori will fly in the face of most of the Anglican Communion plus the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox churches, and disregard its own membership.

TEC's long-term future is not encouraging. 25% of Episcopalians are over 65 years old. It supports abortion, homosexuals in all places of the leadership, with little interest in procreation or making converts to Jesus Christ. Where are the recruits for rebuilding its membership coming from? It attracts enough Sgt. Schultz's (from Hogan's Heroes TV) "'who see nothing, hear nothing,' and will remain complacent in their favorite pews. But are they enough? The Bell tolls loud and clear for traditional Episcopalians. Why stand we idle?" wrote a concerned churchman.

The Primates have spoken clearly to the Episcopal Church, and this convention was the deadline for ECUSA to respond, said Canon Dr. Chris Sugden, executive secretary of UK based Anglican Mainstream. "If clear decisions accepting the recommendations of the Windsor Report are not made, or if for some reason the discussions are postponed for further 'listening and processing,' I would hope that the Anglican Communion leadership will be firm in its resolve to break communion officially with ECUSA," he said.

What does the future hold? "It will look a lot different this time next year," said Sugden. "I think this convention will be a point of no return. It may not be the actual moment for any separation, but if Windsor is not complied with, it will be the point of no return."

Pittsburgh Bishop Robert Duncan, moderator of the Anglican Communion Network, said the choice of Schori as P.B. demonstrated American willfulness. He said he saw "very little evidence of politicking" prior to yesterday's election.

But he said that it was hard to see the convention's choice as "anything other than the American Church...saying we can do what we believe we ought to do, no matter the consequences" in the wider Anglican Communion.

Asked where things stand now for conservatives after the election of Jefforts Schori, Bishop Duncan said that the "decisive moment was in 2003," when TEC chose to "walk apart" from the Communion. He said we would know for sure in the next couple of days whether or not TEC really means to continue on that path.

Duncan was asked about the Archbishop of Canterbury's statement today about Jefforts Schori's election, which offered prayers and greetings, but no congratulations, and noted that the choice for P.B. would have an "impact on the collegial life" of Anglican primates.

Duncan said the greatest problem in terms of primatial collegiality will be with the fact that Jefforts Schori "teaches and acts precisely contrary to the Windsor Report," and secondarily with the fact that not all primates will accept a female archbishop.

FOR CONSERVATIVES, THE "DAY AFTER" the stunning election of Jefforts Schori started with the orthodox Diocese of Fort Worth's announcement - evidently the first of its kind - that it had appealed to Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, Anglican primates and the international Panel of Reference for alternate primatial oversight. The action was agreed by Fort Worth's bishop (Jack Iker) and standing committee, the members of which are in Columbus. Fort Worth already has an appeal before the Panel, centering on the effect on traditionalists of TEC's acceptance and promotion of women's ordination.

It was not clear whether either of the other two Episcopal dioceses which do not ordain women as priests would follow Fort Worth's lead in taking this initial step, or whether there were sufficient diocesan leaders on hand in Columbus to do so straightaway. But the bishop of one of the other two orthodox dioceses, John-David Schofield of San Joaquin, California, said Fort Worth's petition is a "natural outcome" of the latest development.

WE ARE just two days from the end of the Convention, and major business is not nearly as far as long as was hoped. But the signs and signals are not good, the Episcopal Church is going its way, and few Anglicans will follow it.

All blessings,

David W. Virtue DD

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Poster Thread
IMGB007
Posted: 2006/6/20 3:57  Updated: 2006/6/20 4:17
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/15
From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 93
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
Quote:
The Bell tolls loud and clear for traditional Episcopalians.


A loud and noisy Spong...

(unashamedly borrowed from Tekton Apologetics Ministries http://www.tektonics.org/ )
MarkP
Posted: 2006/6/20 5:14  Updated: 2006/6/20 5:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/11/11
From: Diocese of El Camino Real
Posts: 319
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
I really wonder if the issue is about Schori's gender or her liberal views.

For example, pretend Schori had voted against the Robinson consecration and join the Network. Wouldn't her election be much more acceptible?

You can get over the concern about her being "chief" consecrator by having 3 male bishops participate in any consecration. We always have three bishops just in case one of the bishops is not validly consecrated.

Male oriented societies have already learned to deal with women in authority, e.g. Elizabeth I, Victoria, Elizabeth II, Margaret Thatcher, Eleanor Roosevelt (all good Anglicans, but I digress), Indira Ghandi, Golda Meir. Muslins, for example, are even learning to pay attention to the words and movements of Condi Rice!

Having said this, the election is clearly a signal to the Third World that we are still American imperialists and the so-called "repentance" should be read in this context. Because context is apparently how we judged things these days!
JimMcNeely
Posted: 2006/6/20 7:28  Updated: 2006/6/20 7:28
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/4/7
From:
Posts: 697
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
Mark,

It is both.

Her gender is an issue because the vast majority of the Anglican Communion refuses to ordain women to the sacred offices of priest and deacon. These provinces do so on solid theological and biblical grounds. TEC's choice forces them to accept a woman as a primatial head. This will not be accepted in most of the Anglican Communion.

Her theology is uniformly liberal and revisionist. Her decision to support Robinson's election and her recent statements about gay sex being okay reinforces her theological position.

TEC has elected someone guaranteed to deepen the divisions in the communion.

-Jim+

PS: Another salient issue is her lack of qualifications. What exactly makes people want to vote for her? She has never been a rector of a congregation. She holds only one degree in theology. Her diocese is pitifully small and inept in one of the fastest growing regions of the country. In short, she is in WAY over her head.
shytech74
Posted: 2006/6/20 9:28  Updated: 2006/6/20 9:28
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/4/23
From: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1031
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
the orthodox Diocese of Fort Worth's announcement - evidently the first of its kind - that it had appealed to Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, Anglican primates and the international Panel of Reference for alternate primatial oversight. The action was agreed by Fort Worth's bishop (Jack Iker) and standing committee, the members of which are in Columbus. Fort Worth already has an appeal before the Panel,
-----------------------------------------
And your precious appeals will get you nowhere gentlemen.
Forget Windsor, forget Canterbury, cut the ropes from a sinking mother-ship, and call ++Hepworth and the ACA now.
If you come under some other primate, within 5 years you will be in the same position you are today, TODAY is the day, NOW is the accepted time...
FrGregACCA
Posted: 2006/6/20 9:31  Updated: 2006/6/20 9:31
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/2/24
From: Columbia, South Carolina
Posts: 14
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
Quote:
But a VirtueOnline reader tells the following story about Ms Schori on the occasion of the death of her mother, Elaine Ryan. Here is what he wrote: "Elaine had converted from ECUSA to the Orthodox Church, and went to church at St. Spiridon Cathedral in Seattle, where I also attend."


Elaine, pray for us.

Elaine, pray for your daughter, Katherine.

Elaine, pray for TEC.

Memory eternal!

M'shlama,
Fr. Greg
rfwitt
Posted: 2006/6/20 10:01  Updated: 2006/6/20 10:01
Just popping in
Joined: 2005/12/18
From:
Posts: 11
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
As a Christian who is not part of the Episcopal/Anglican Church I stand amazed at the responses from the conservative/traditional leadership. Are they so dense that they don't realize that the liberal/revisionist don't change their ways but always continue to push the envelope further towards apostacy. In my view the Episcopal church has been apostate for years. Any church that would retain a Bishop like Spong shows by its actions (which speak louder then words) that it doesn't give a damn what the scriptures clearly teach. It only continues to amaze me that the orthodox Chritians are frozen in their pews and are still counted as part of this whore church.
Richard
gregory
Posted: 2006/6/20 10:14  Updated: 2006/6/20 10:14
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/8/4
From: Nflorida
Posts: 4423
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
FrGregACCA,

What came to mind for me was;

Honor thy Father and Mother...

Does not the New Testament place a "curse" on those who do not Honor thy Father and Mother?


What a total shame to not respect and honor a Mother's burial request...

gregory
gregory
Posted: 2006/6/20 10:18  Updated: 2006/6/20 10:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/8/4
From: Nflorida
Posts: 4423
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
Jim+, you say "her recent statements about gay sex being okay reinforces her theological position."

like in this linked article;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060619/ts_nm/religion_episcopals_bishop_dc

=====

She should read this article;
The tragedy of AIDS and the Legacy of Tears
The message: He was a young, bright and enterprising Zambian. He reached the higher echelons of the public enterprise world. The sky seemed the limit given the potential he showed. He moved around with the best of social circles. He was handsome too.

When he entered a room the current and excitement he generated among the young ladies was palpable. He had only to snap his fingers or make a furtive glance and the message was conveyed. Next we saw a sports car taking off. Yes, he was on the fast track in whatever he put his mind to.

Chris was my friend. I will not use his real name as a mark of respect. Eighteen years to this week I bade him goodbye at his bedside as I departed from the country.

It remains one of the saddest moments in my life to have seen him as he was reduced to virtually a shadow. His muscles were literally dissolving as I spent time with him. His face was ashen and his eyes had sunk deep into their sockets. Tears flowed: they conveyed the hopelessness, the helplessness, the desperation and the deep regrets that go with the incalculable and fatal harm that one inflicts on oneself.

Yes, Chris was dying of AIDS and within weeks of my seeing him he was gone. He left behind a large family and a legacy of tears.

Had it not been for Chris' penchant to put facts squarely and not circle the truth, I would not write as I do today about his sad life. I know he would like me to convey the message that the lifestyle he chose was not worth it. That it was reckless. It was suicidal. Chris' death was an avoidable tragedy.

It was Stalin who once made the brutal remark that one death is a tragedy but a million deaths is a statistic! So here are the somber statistics: twenty five years to this month the AIDS alarm first went off around the globe. Over 22 million people have died of AIDS, most of them in Sub Saharan Africa.

This already exceeds the 20 million killed by the 14th century bubonic plague. Three million died last year alone. Over 40 million people (75 per cent in Africa) are living with HIV/AIDS, of which close to one half are women.

If this is not daunting and disturbing enough, as we read this column, there are close to 600 infections occurring each hour, or 10 per minute, or 14, 400 per day around the globe. To put it more starkly, as you snap your fingers as many as 10 HIV/ AIDS infections have taken place. Estimates indicate that new infections are growing, albeit at a slower pace than before, at the rate of five million per year and half of them are among people of ages 15-24. Some call this a "disease of young people" or I should say more realistically a "disease acquired by young people".

As the reader's head spins with all these statistics, here's another: in four years time (2010) five countries with 40 per cent of the world's population will add 50 to 75 million infected people: Ethiopia, Nigeria, China, India and Russia, according to the 'Until There's A Cure Foundation' one of many foundations and NGO's and UN Agencies committed to raising awareness and marshalling resources to combat this pandemic.

Raising awareness means being brutally frank. It has to come from all sectors of society: be they governments, local authorities, schools, civil society and religious institutions. It requires leadership in the interests of saving humanity. Perhaps the best example of leadership and statesmanship that I witnessed was in Zambia some 20 years ago when President Kenneth Kaunda, a devout Christian, held a press conference and announced to the world that one of his sons had succumbed to the deadly AIDS.

Until then AIDS was 'hush-hush'. Painful as it was, he showed remarkable courage and social responsibility by coming out in the open. Many other African leaders, notably President Yoweri Museveni of Uganda, embarked on awareness building programmes that plastered billboards and TV screens with warning signs, offer of condoms, counseling and treatment. Radio programmes, popular songs and skits convey the message actively to the far corners of many countries.

Given its vulnerability, the 'youth sector' has become a special area of focus for prevention programmes. An imaginative way of spreading the message was developed by the non-profit international Foundation World Links. 'World Links' connects children electronically on a wide range of educational programmes.

Through the use of e-mail exchanges, chat rooms, on-line discussion fora young people from seven African countries joined their peers in the United Sates to learn about and discuss HIV/AIDS ( http:// www.world-links.org/aidsweb/index.html)

The discussions ranged from "what is AIDS" to "how do I tell my friends about it" to "how do I discuss this with my parents". The latter is particularly poignant given that there are 14 million AIDS orphans in the world and the number could rise to 25 million in four years. An evaluation carried out after the programme gave top marks to World Links. And the feedback from the children was terrific.

One of them even said "I challenged my father and asked him how many partners he has!" AIDS has its direct correlation to social settings and social contexts. Promiscuous and reckless behaviour, extramarital relationships, unsafe sex, denial of the vulnerability and a host of other behaviours play into the equation.

Once tagged a 'roadside prostitute problem' that affected truck drivers and soldiers, AIDS has clearly entered a broader arena, including the cocktail circuit and tourist resorts that range from one to five stars! Once regarded as 'Africa Problem' it's now a global issue.

While Swaziland and Botswana head the rankings with the frightening count of some 37 of every hundred adults having HIV/AIDS, the prevalence in Russia and India is close to one in every hundred adults. Given the large numbers in those countries the problem may well be much greater than the statistics indicate. In several Latin American countries Panama, Venezuela, El Salvador, and Argentina the prevalence rates are around seven in every thousand adults.

The first case of HIV infection in Sri Lanka is said to have been reported in 1986. By 2004, according to a UNDP report, 363 males and 251 females were diagnosed as infected. The same reports indicate that there are about 30,000 women and girls and 15,000 boys engaged in the commercial sex trade.

The risks of HIV/AIDS spreading among sex workers and their patrons are heightened by low condom use. A significant number of sex workers are located near military camps; and 'beach boys' and women are involved with sex trade with tourists. More recently with the influx of sex workers from other parts of the world patronizing hot spots in the City of Colombo, the exposure has increased.

AIDS in now intricately linked to a mobile, transnational prostitution network that spreads and increases the risks of infections. Once regarded in some parts of the world as an affliction that affected only homosexuals and IV drug users, it is now understood to affect old and young, rich and poor, gay and straight. Efforts are under way towards the development of effective drugs to cure the disease and/or stop its spread. The best defence, of course, is through the avoidance of high risk behaviours.

To make that change in mindset, targeted public education is needed. In this highly networked world the innovative approach of World Links, for instance, is a great example of not only leveraging information technology but capturing the attention of youth our precious next generation.

To end this column where it began, the tragedy that befalls people who yield unto temptation through risky behaviour, against societal and religious norms, can be devastating. When I left my friend Chris and hugged him to say goodbye and farewell, the tremble I felt in his body and in his breath and the tears that gushed out signaled an irreparable regret.
OtisPage
Posted: 2006/6/20 10:25  Updated: 2006/6/20 10:34
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/4
From:
Posts: 667
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
The true implication of Schori's election is not the issue with ECUSA's apostasy. (Now TEC's apostasy.) That question is settled.

The issue now is the preservation of the Anglican Communion.

The Communion must expel ECUSA or be tainted by ECUSA's apostasy, a theological cancer that undermines Christianity.

Griswold was deceptive and manipulative in handling AC and the Communion Primates. Schori's succession amplifies Griswold's deceit. It has the wallop of anti-Augustinian feminism embraced in an obvious salute to gays, lesbians and bisexuals -- the good ol' Louie Crew crowd.

Take warning those who love the Anglican tradition. The Communion must deal decisively and firmly with ECUSA's breach of "the faith once given."

Those honest and sincere Saints in ECUSA, who love Christ, who are truly dwelled with Christ's Holy Spirit (Rom 8:9) must leave and create a new Anglican Church to be recognized by the Communion Primates.

1Cor 5:9-13; Heb 6:4-6
gotc86
Posted: 2006/6/20 11:13  Updated: 2006/6/20 11:13
Just popping in
Joined: 2005/4/20
From:
Posts: 15
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
from Reuters yesterday:

"Interviewed on CNN, Jefferts Schori was asked if it was a sin to be homosexual.

'I don't believe so. I believe that God creates us with different gifts. Each one of us comes into this world with a different collection of things that challenge us and things that give us joy and allow us to bless the world around us,' she said.

'Some people come into this world with affections ordered toward other people of the same gender and some people come into this world with affections directed at people of the other gender'."

Oh. My. Goodness.

I was naive enough to think, at first, "Maybe her election is a good thing..." As difficult as her being a woman is, I hoped she would work toward the greater reconciliation of the Anglican communion.

I will call my church today to be sure that not a penny of my annual pledge goes to the national church. I am in Bishop Duncan's diocese, so I'm praying my wonderful, orthodox church will be able to weather this storm. If not, and our parish fails to stand against the corruption of Scripture, I will leave; until then, I will worship and pray with my congregation.
mathman
Posted: 2006/6/20 11:28  Updated: 2006/6/20 11:28
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/26
From: Rockville, MD
Posts: 1028
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
As I sit at my computer posting this comment, my table clock is saying, TEC, TEC, TEC.
Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin, indeed.
I direct your attention to Gal 1:6. I quote from v.7, in the NIV:
"Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned."

Anybody ever read The Odyssey? Odysseus has to order himself bound to the mast to avoid the song of the sirens. The song of the sirens has now led the former ECUSA (hereafter TEC) to its death. Someone forgot that earplugs had to be used by the entire crew. The choice of an oceanographer as chief pilot is apt, as the organization will spend the rest of its time underwater.

There will be no possibility of agreement with the Roman Catholics. There will be no possibility of agreement with the Eastern Orthodox. The likelihood of the acceptance of GC 2006 by the Southern Cone has very long odds: at least 100:1 against, I make it.

What has not been noted is that the election of ++Schori has received WIDE publicity. Both England and the US have provided extensive press coverage. Cradle Episcopalians do keep up on the world and national news, though they may ignore the newsletter of their own diocese, and though they may hear nothing from their pulpits. This news, however, will crack the shells of quite a few, as will the departure of the three Dioceses who have already indicated their desire for alternative supervision.

Any Anglicans who choose to visit TEC churches will have an easier time asking locals if they have heard about the anarchy and chaos in TEC. It used to be that everyone was uninformed; this publicity will certainly get the conversation started.

So get out there in the fields white for harvest, friends. The way has been cleared to inform, exhort, encourage, and call to remembrance. It is too late for TEC, but it is still not too late for many souls to be rescued from the coming fire!
Curious
Posted: 2006/6/20 11:28  Updated: 2006/6/20 11:28
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/5/2
From:
Posts: 15
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
"Her gender is an issue because the vast majority of the Anglican Communion refuses to ordain women to the sacred offices of priest and deacon. These provinces do so on solid theological and biblical grounds".

I know the biblical passages against homosexuality, but what biblical grounds are there against women being ordained?

Thanks
KievCaves
Posted: 2006/6/20 11:36  Updated: 2006/6/20 11:36
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/19
From:
Posts: 82
 Next Convention
Look for resolutions in 2009 calling for an appology and reparations to Sodom and Gommorah
melkite6
Posted: 2006/6/20 12:32  Updated: 2006/6/20 12:32
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/5/23
From:
Posts: 23
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
For a good summary of traditional and classical Christian thinking on this topic see

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=91071
frcochran
Posted: 2006/6/20 12:41  Updated: 2006/6/20 13:27
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/6/28
From:
Posts: 544
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
I know the biblical passages against homosexuality, but what biblical grounds are there against women being ordained?

The following is only one example of many.

Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel (John 1: 49).

The term “rabbi” in this historical context means a number of things such as master and teacher. It also means one who should be imitated and to fail to do so is a grave sin. I think we can all agree that it is sinful for us not to imitate Christ. After all, don’t we call ourselves His followers?

Christ never ordained a female to be His iconic representation: only men. Nowhere in the New Testament is there an ordained female. Phebe does not qualify (Romans 16: 1), and it has only been in the 20th century that the imagination has been stretched far enough to pretend she was an ordained deacon.

There is also no precedent for women priestesses in the Old Testament either.

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach (1 Timothy 3: 2). Please note the gender of the bishop and that it does not say the “person of one spouse.” In the original Greek they had a word for person and for spouse, and they used neither. It can therefore only be interpreted for what it is, that only a man can be a bishop. Furthermore, every biblical scholar will tell you that the term bishop here would refer to bishop/priest because the three Holy Orders had not yet developed into what they are today.

Here is a qualification for deacon: Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well (1 Tim 3: 12). Please note the gender of the actors in this verse. Deacons are referred to as exclusively male, and once again we know the writer of this Epistle could have used feminine or neutral language to describe these offices but did not.

Since all Holy Scripture is Divinely inspired, it may have well been spoken by God.

I might note that women have only been ordained by incredibly heretical groups. First there was the Sabellianism group and now ECUSA.

I hope this helps.

John+

PS
KievCaves, touché!

PPS
I have noticed that people that have already made up their minds on this issue (and support fully Women's Ordination) usually don't allow a little thing like Scripture get in the way of their thinking.
pamela777
Posted: 2006/6/20 12:53  Updated: 2006/6/20 12:53
Just popping in
Joined: 2004/11/28
From:
Posts: 11
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
I think it was a brilliant move by ECUSA. They have deflected the "gay" issues, the authority of Scripture and all the other thorny issues to the side in the hope of fracturing the orthodox unity, knowing that women ordination will eventually be an "issue" in unity once this more controversial [Windsor/Anglican Communion schism] issue is resolved.

I am sure they are sitting back, pretty smug right now figuring that the orthodox will now devour each other and they will sail away, like they did 30 years ago...

This is a most depressing time.
Gander
Posted: 2006/6/20 13:04  Updated: 2006/6/20 13:04
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/31
From: Less than 1 Earth diameter away
Posts: 452
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
TEC = The Episcopal Cult (or "club")

Don
Fr-Chip
Posted: 2006/6/20 13:07  Updated: 2006/6/20 13:07
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/19
From: San Antonio Texas
Posts: 6
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
"The Bell tolls loud and clear for traditional Episcopalians. Why stand we idle?" wrote a concerned churchman." Indeed.

May I respectfully suggest that ECUSA and Canterbury aren't the entire Anglican world, beloved in Christ. May we pray for our Lord to raise a standard to rally to where we can all worship in Spirit and Truth, while remaining faithful to our Anglican Reformed Catholic tradition. The Apostolic Succession and Faith Eternal, after all, are not limited to a particular church or communion.

God remains sovereign, even in this. Our prayer is for a real and viable Anglican communion in North America where we can all be together...faithful to Scripture, classically Anglican and led by the Spirit to accomplish our mission. Perhaps the time has come to ask why we are all separated, when we could, together, be a a great task force for Word and Sacrament.

If we can be of service, our bell tolls for worship...and we will recieve, with open arms, any of our Episcopalian relations who feel led by God the Holy Ghost to join us. In the interim, our hearts are breaking for your turmoil--you have our prayers. May God arise...and His enemies be scattered!

Under the Blood and in the Spirit,

Fr Chip Harper
All Saints Anglican Church (ACA)
San Antonio, Texas
BrChip
Posted: 2006/6/20 13:38  Updated: 2006/6/20 13:38
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/11
From: Anglican Mission to South Dakota
Posts: 301
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
What Fr. Harper said.

We serve sw South Dakota, nw Nebraska and eastern Wyoming (outside of AMiA territory)

Traditional Anglican Mass, Sunday 11:00 ,(1928 BCP and Anglican Missal based), we welcome any and all who are in or traveling through the Southern Black Hills.


Pax Christi †

Dcn. Chip Johnson, cj
St. Francis Mission
Anglican Mission to South Dakota (APCGS)
Hot Springs SD
gregory
Posted: 2006/6/20 13:47  Updated: 2006/6/20 13:47
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/8/4
From: Nflorida
Posts: 4423
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
BrChip, Thank you for the invite...

Been to the Blacks Hills, Mount Rushmore, etc, some 10+ years ago....
a wonderful place for a get away vacation.

i hope my family can go again someday and that we can worship together.

gregory
agape
Posted: 2006/6/20 13:50  Updated: 2006/6/20 13:50
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/5/8
From: Allegheny
Posts: 3
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
"I really wonder if the issue is about Schori's gender or her liberal views..."

Mark, my initial reaction upon hearing the news was not on her gender or her views, but on her lack of experience in ordained ministry. She was ordained fifteen years ago, and has been bishop (with declining ASA in a growing state) for less than five years! I only hope I am some day placed on a similar fast-track!
Perhaps the unseemly haste with which ECUSA is acting speaks to the actions of the Spirit - perhaps Schori's conciliatory gifts will be linked to a personal, spiritual transformation which saves the church.
But, I fear it is more likely that her experience studying octopi has given her the same ability to obscure her position in clouds of ink and to hide under rocks as waves crash well above her head!
frjude
Posted: 2006/6/20 14:28  Updated: 2006/6/20 14:28
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/1/9
From: Heartland
Posts: 277
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
"Duncan said the greatest problem in terms of primatial collegiality will be with the fact that Jefforts Schori "teaches and acts precisely contrary to the Windsor Report," and secondarily with the fact that not all primates will accept a female archbishop."

NOT "secondarily" at all, dear Bishop! Her views AND her gender are a BIG problem. Of course, since you yourself violate the Catholic faith by ordaining women priestess', you had to put it in this way.
frjude
Posted: 2006/6/20 14:31  Updated: 2006/6/20 14:31
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/1/9
From: Heartland
Posts: 277
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
"It is fitting that an oceanographer should now lead this church"

Ya, she can take the Titanic to its final resting place.
frjude
Posted: 2006/6/20 14:33  Updated: 2006/6/20 14:33
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/1/9
From: Heartland
Posts: 277
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
"TEC IS STILL pro-abortion, the convention show. Abortion may not be in favored by local churches, Rev. Canon Elizabeth Keaton, Diocese of New Jersey, suggested, but 'we are deputized to follow the Holy Spirit, not the wishes of the folks back home.'"

The Holy Spirit endorses ABORTION? I am speechless.
Gander
Posted: 2006/6/20 15:57  Updated: 2006/6/20 15:57
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/31
From: Less than 1 Earth diameter away
Posts: 452
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
"Our prayer is for a real and viable Anglican communion in North America where we can all be together...faithful to Scripture, classically Anglican and led by the Spirit to accomplish our mission."

Amen.

Amen.
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/20 16:05  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:36
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
"However, on the heels of the election and consecration three years ago of a man living in a same-sex relationship, it would appear that the Episcopal Church has neither sensitivity nor concern for its relationship with the rest of the Anglican Communion," Ackerman said.

Asked where things stand now for conservatives after the election of Jefforts Schori, Bishop Duncan said that the "decisive moment was in 2003," when TEC chose to "walk apart" from the Communion. He said we would know for sure in the next couple of days whether or not TEC really means to continue on that path.

Look at this language, folks....."It appears"..."we would know for sure in couple of days..."

Now contrast that to the "clarity" of the "Death Cult"....

Abortion may not be in favored by local churches, Rev. Canon Elizabeth Keaton, Diocese of New Jersey, suggested, but "we are deputized to follow the Holy Spirit, not the wishes of the folks back home." Abortion remains an endorsed choice for those women who wish to avail themselves of it.

How proud you must be to be part of the Death Cult Bishop Duncan !!!!! But please, by all means, please continue to wait. I'm sure that some year, you will realize that ABP Rowan Williams will not come to your rescue. Even after he retires I'm sure you will still be holding out hope. In the mean time, I hope you enjoy your time being a full member in good standing in The Death Cult. For a man's anus, no matter how much sperm you put in there, will never produce life. And according to this Death Cult a woman has the right to be individual Jihadists ripping their babies limb from limb or using chemical warfare on them in order to dissolve them from the womb.

Bishop Duncan...moderator of the ACN....and still...at this very hour....a member in good standing of the Death Cult.

I'm sure you Frozen Chosen Orthodox are so proud of him for his courage......you can see how much I am.
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/20 16:22  Updated: 2006/6/20 16:22
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
Quote:
The likelihood of the acceptance of GC 2006 by the Southern Cone has very long odds: at least 100:1 against, I make it.


In what sense does one Province of the Anglican Communion "accept" the Synod of another?

Also, whatever happened to Article 26?
Quote:
XXVI. Of the Unworthiness of the Ministers, which hinders not the effect of the Sacraments.
Thirty-Nine Articles
gregory
Posted: 2006/6/20 16:35  Updated: 2006/6/21 0:39
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/8/4
From: Nflorida
Posts: 4423
 Re: @GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces DarkHole
Rootbranch, seems you left out NOT ...

""For a man's anus, no matter how much sperm you put in there will produce life."" ???


============
update edit;

For a man's anus, no matter how much sperm you put in there will NOT produce life.

Rootbranch, Thanks for posting and do keep their feet to the fire of God. i've got that "clue by four" but been praying while you are posting... someone has to provide prayer cover while the warrior is fighting...

prayerfully, gregory
rossi
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:02  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:02
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Redcar, England
Posts: 639
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
Gregory I loves d it.I think that David Virtue or other in Columbus should ask Gene this question. About the article, I agree with the BBC. she is a hurricane, and a number 5.Is
just wait to see the damage.
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/20 21:36  Updated: 2006/6/20 21:36
 Re: VOL@GC'06: "Hurricane Katharine" faces Da
Oops...thanks Gregory, correction noted and made.
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