From Canterbury to Columbus: And from Rowan to Katherine
By Peter Toon
VirtueOnline Correspondent
www.virtueonline.org
6/19/2006
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams issued a Short statement June 19 on the election of Katharine Jefferts Schori, Bishop of Nevada, as the next Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church. Jefferts Schori was elected June 18 to succeed current Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold.
The second and third paragraphs of his statement read:
"Her election will undoubtedly have an impact on the collegial life of the Anglican Primates; and it also brings into focus some continuing issues in several of our ecumenical dialogues."
"We are continuing to pray for the General Convention of the Episcopal Church as it confronts a series of exceptionally difficult choices"
Let us seek to unpack these two sentences.
He does not say "will have an impact" but will "undoubtedly" have one! He knows the 36 male Primates well and so speaks here from both knowledge and first-hand experience. Introducing a woman into this "college" of senior bishops will change its character dramatically. In fact, it may cause the absence of some Primates. This is because most of these men practice in their own provinces a kind of generous and gracious patriarchy (headship) and are not sympathetic to women being bishops, let alone archbishops or presiding bishops. And even where they may be tolerance of a female bishop, they may not be tolerance for this one because she is a supporter of the consecration of Gene Robinson and of blessing persons in same-sex partnerships.
In Dialogues with the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches, the presence of a female Presiding Bishop in the Anglican world will bring into focus the fact that these two major Churches do not ordain women to any order of the Ministry. Recently Dr Williams invited Cardinal Kasper from the Vatican to address the House of Bishops of the Church of England as that House seeks to come to a common mind as to the introduction of women bishops into the mother Church of the Anglican Communion.
Finally, Dr Williams says he is praying for the Episcopal Church as it faces not merely "choices", but "exceptionally difficult choices." It is fairly certain that he has in mind the debates on June 19 & 20 on several resolutions (A159-A163) that seek to deal with the requests made by The Windsor Report of the Episcopal Church. These deal with - expressing regret and moratoriums on the consecration of actively "gay" persons and the blessing of same-sex partnerships. The whole Anglican world is awaiting the text of these Resolutions when finally passed in order to see whether they actually make clear that the Episcopal Church is intending to walk together in spirit and truth with the rest of the Anglican Communion.
What the Archbishop does not raise at this stage - for it would be ungracious and out of order - is whether in fact by electing this particular female bishop, with her known progressive and liberal views and commitments, the Episcopal Church has already declared its intention to walk alone.
END
| Poster | Thread |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/6/19 20:37 Updated: 2006/6/19 20:37 |
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"Let us seek to unpack these two sentences."
____ Dear David, The time for "unpacking" is over. The time for packing is here. |
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| dedaze | Posted: 2006/6/19 20:47 Updated: 2006/6/19 20:47 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/20 From: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 13 |
I appreciate that Rowan Williams is trying to keep at least some control over the Anglican communion while also trying to insure the Church of England is not excommunicated along with the ECUSA. I feel the election of the new presiding bishop is just what the Episcopal church needed. A definite statement about the direction and future of the church that for so long has been lacking. Hopefully the rest of the decisions made by the convention will leave no doubt for those few still in the church who either did not know what is going on or who still held hope that the church would "repent".
Doug Daze dedaze@yahoo.com |
| mathman | Posted: 2006/6/19 20:55 Updated: 2006/6/19 20:55 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Rockville, MD Posts: 1028 |
There's been too much unpacking in the last 40 years.
The time has come to pack our heads and hearts with the Scriptures, the Confessions, the XXXIX Articles, and the historic Anglican documents of formation. Play time, listening time, table time, dialogue time: YOUR TIME IS UP. It is the Elijah moment: CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/6/19 20:59 Updated: 2006/6/19 20:59 |
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"What the Archbishop does not raise at this stage - for it would be ungracious and out of order - is whether in fact by electing this particular female bishop, with her known progressive and liberal views and commitments, the Episcopal Church has already declared its intention to walk alone."
******* He may be weak minded but I'm sure he is no fool on these matters. He is just playing politics. BHTech |
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| rossi | Posted: 2006/6/19 21:02 Updated: 2006/6/19 21:02 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Redcar, England Posts: 639 |
Dear stoneridge you are right, the time for you to leave The Pagan Episcopal church is now. you in America can find a evangelical church just a few yards from home. Here in the northeast of England if I leave my carismatic church of England congregation I will need to travel miles to find a evangelical church.If I could I woud to emigrate to America now.you should thanks God for living in a blessed country.guys the Welsh archdruid(the High Priest of the Kingdom)Ronan and yours new Matriarch are biscuit of the same bag, don't loose your time listening to his blabla.
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| artistree | Posted: 2006/6/19 21:04 Updated: 2006/6/19 21:04 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/2/16 From: Lake Tomahawk Wisconsin Posts: 315 |
Advice for Rowan Williams:
"He , who has spurned the ecclesiastical tradition and darted off to the opinions of heretical men--he has ceased to be a man of God and to remain faithful to the Lord." "We call those heretics 'empty', for they are destitute of the counsels of God and the traditions of Christ. In truth, they are bitter like the wild almond, for their dogmas originate with themselves." "Those who have a craving for glory voluntarily evade, by arguments of a diverse sort, the things delivered by the blessed apostles and teachers, which things are wedded to inspired words. They use human teaching to oppose divine tradition, in order to establish the heresy....They do not have the key of entrance, but rather a false counterfeit key. With this they do not enter in, as we do. For we enter through the tradition of the Lord. " (Clement of Alexandria 150-215) |
| artistree | Posted: 2006/6/19 21:12 Updated: 2006/6/19 21:12 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/2/16 From: Lake Tomahawk Wisconsin Posts: 315 |
BHTech and DnNeal,
Thank you for your kind words yesterday and invitation for personal correspondence. I appreciate the heartfelt encouragment. BHTech, when I clicked on your name to read your profile, the "PM" was blank. And, I'm still kinda new at posting and I don't even know what PM is. Blessings, Artistree |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2006/6/19 21:39 Updated: 2006/6/19 21:39 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Both sides are playing this scenario right down to the wire. I expect that sometime Thursday we will hear from Canterbury and the primates with respect to what they will or won't do with the Episcopal Church. I also agree with Bishop Iker's action in requesting overseas primatial protection for the Diocese of Fort Worth, and I won't be surprised if my own bishop, John-David Schofield does the same thing. I don't know about the Diocese of Quincy, but if the same thing happened there, it wouldn't surprise me.
Cennydd |
| rossi | Posted: 2006/6/19 22:06 Updated: 2006/6/19 22:06 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Redcar, England Posts: 639 |
Cennyd,Her Majesty archdruid will come with the same blabla,the orthodox dioceses in America must go direct and ask primatial protection from the primate of the south cone.one idea would be to form The Anglican Church in the Americas with him as archbishop.Becouse to be under the leadership of your new Matriarch or the High Prist(archdruid) of Britain is the same.
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| rossi | Posted: 2006/6/19 22:06 Updated: 2006/6/19 22:06 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Redcar, England Posts: 639 |
Cennyd,Her Majesty archdruid will come with the same blabla,the orthodox dioceses in America must go direct and ask primatial protection from the primate of the south cone.one idea would be to form The Anglican Church in the Americas with him as archbishop.Becouse to be under the leadership of your new Matriarch or the High Prist(archdruid) of Britain is the same.
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| rossi | Posted: 2006/6/19 22:06 Updated: 2006/6/19 22:06 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Redcar, England Posts: 639 |
Cennyd,Her Majesty archdruid will come with the same blabla,the orthodox dioceses in America must go direct and ask primatial protection from the primate of the south cone.one idea would be to form The Anglican Church in the Americas with him as archbishop.Becouse to be under the leadership of your new Matriarch or the High Prist(archdruid) of Britain is the same.
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| MichaelA | Posted: 2006/6/19 22:09 Updated: 2006/6/19 22:09 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/5/29 From: Posts: 869 |
Rossi wrote:
"you in America can find a evangelical church just a few yards from home. Here in the northeast of England if I leave my carismatic church of England congregation I will need to travel miles to find a evangelical church." Mate, very sorry to hear that. I will pray that Christians are led to plant evangelical churches in your area. Don't give up, and keep your ears open - Elijah didn't realise how many people in Israel were faithful to the Lord. who knows whom the Lord might raise up there...? Best wishes Michael |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/6/19 22:13 Updated: 2006/6/19 22:13 |
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Dear Artistree
You are welcome. We you login in again please try it after you click on my name. You should see a PM button which means private message. I sent you a PM so you should check your inbox as well. God Bless BHTech |
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| MichaelA | Posted: 2006/6/19 22:26 Updated: 2006/6/19 23:42 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/5/29 From: Posts: 869 |
De Daze wrote:
"I appreciate that Rowan Williams is trying to keep at least some control over the Anglican communion while also trying to insure the Church of England is not excommunicated along with the ECUSA. I feel the election of the new presiding bishop is just what the Episcopal church needed. A definite statement about the direction and future of the church that for so long has been lacking. Hopefully the rest of the decisions made by the convention will leave no doubt for those few still in the church who either did not know what is going on or who still held hope that the church would "repent"." Mate, I am inclined to agree with you. One of the biggest tasks facing true American Anglicans is convincing the majority of their brethren in the pews that there are serious issues at stake, and that one can no longer safely "sit on the fence". This election will make that task easier. I had been very concerned that the hierarchy might give way on some points and fashion a compromise that would allow them to quietly keep gnawing away at the innards of the Church. I have no doubt that a skilled politician like Rowan Williams would have done that. Fortunately, he could only watch from the sidelines, even though he took the historically extraordinary step of sending the Bishop of York as his personal envoy (yes I know he denied that was the purpose, but lets not be naive *LOL*)! There are still probably about 800,000 attenders in ECUSA. A considerable number are concentrated in a few large congregations that maintain their integrity, but most are in ECUSA-compliant churches. That is a lot of believers to be assisted in finding a faithful bible-believing church. |
| Wordsworth | Posted: 2006/6/19 23:33 Updated: 2006/6/19 23:33 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/2/14 From: Pensacola,Florida Posts: 71 |
You have said it.... And you have well and truly summed it up, Mathman.
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| RCPeters | Posted: 2006/6/19 23:35 Updated: 2006/6/19 23:35 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/19 From: Posts: 6 |
Artistree, thank you for posting Clement of Alexandria's words. How astonishingly pertinent. They also give me greater hope that the heresies of our time will, like those that have come before, pass away.
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| Cennydd | Posted: 2006/6/20 1:12 Updated: 2006/6/20 1:13 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Hey Rossi! The idea of an "Anglican Church in the Americas" is a great one! And I think Archbishop Venables would be the logical choice to head the Province. I'm sure that it would receive some consideration....and maybe approval....from Bishop Duncan, the other bishops of the Anglican Communion Network, the primates of the "continuing Anglican churches, and the Global South primates as well! It just might work! "Fill in the blanks, and we'll work out the details later!"
Cennydd |
| sentinel | Posted: 2006/6/20 2:38 Updated: 2006/6/20 2:38 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/11 From: Posts: 261 |
Quote: Hey Rossi! The idea of an "Anglican Church in the Americas" is a great one! And I think Archbishop Venables would be the logical choice to head the Province.[/quote} |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2006/6/20 2:46 Updated: 2006/6/20 2:46 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Careful, sentinel, your pessimism is showing!
Cennydd |
| OtisPage | Posted: 2006/6/20 2:50 Updated: 2006/6/20 2:50 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 667 |
The true implication of Schori's election is not the issue with ECUSA's apostasy. That question is settled.
The issue now is the preservation of the Anglican Communion. The Communion must expel ECUSA or be tainted by ECUSA's apostasy, a theological cancer that undermines Christianity. Griswold was deceptive and manipulative in handling AC and the Communion Primates. Schori's succession amplifies Griswold's deceit. It has the wallop of anti-Augustinian feminism embraced in an obvious salute to gays, lesbians and bisexuals -- the good ol' Louie Crew crowd. Take warning those who love the Anglican tradition. The Communion must deal decisively and firmly with ECUSA's breach of "the faith once given." Those honest and sincere Saints in ECUSA, who love Christ, who are truly dwelled with Christ's Holy Spirit (Rom 8:9) must leave and create a new Anglican Church to be recognized by the Communion Primates. 1Cor 5:9-13; Heb 6:4-6 |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2006/6/20 2:54 Updated: 2006/6/20 2:55 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Rossi, all of this aside, I assume that you know that ++Rowan Cantuar is a member of the Gorsedd o Bardd (Council of the Bards), and as such, he holds a high honor for any Welshman. As you should know by my Christian name, this includes me. He most assuredly is NOT a druid....a pagan. He is a Bard. A writer. A theologian. But not a druid.
Pob Hywl! Cennydd |
| gregory | Posted: 2006/6/20 11:51 Updated: 2006/6/20 11:51 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4423 |
![]() ""Dear David, The time for "unpacking" is over. The time for packing is here."" Been too much sugar coated packing going on... Forget unpacking/packing just run for higher ground, don't look back, don't unhook the donkeys, ... Choose TODAY! |
| sentinel | Posted: 2006/6/20 12:40 Updated: 2006/6/20 12:41 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/11 From: Posts: 261 |
Quote:
Careful, sentinel, your pessimism is showing! Cennydd, Indeed pessimism comes quite easy these days. It is truly gotten to the point where I have fairly low expectations for the ACN. The "wait" started with the formation of the AAC and still continues. It has gone from: wait until the meeting of the primates wait until Windsor wait until GC2006 (ah! now we have "clarity" - like it wasn't there already )now it will be wait until Lambeth. In the midst of all this you get nothing but weak responses from those who have presumed to take on the mantel of leadership (kudos to Bp. Iker for really leading!) for what is left of what passes for orthodoxy in PECUSA/ECUSA/TEC. In the mean time, clergy and parishioners alike who are trusting them to lead will continue to be hounded and abused by the apostates who are steering PECUSA/ECUSA/TEC for a trip to the lake of fire. Imagine Lot telling the angels - "wait! Let's not be so hasty. We've formed this network with some folks over in Gomorrah and have been meeting deciding how we can keep our houses and livelyhood when God finally does bring judgement. We realize that the first meeting (which was really just my family and I) didn't produce much but we just know that after this meeting things will change. And after all, now that these men are banging down our door to get to you , we now have clarity as to the true intent of the people of Sodom". |
| gregory | Posted: 2006/6/20 13:10 Updated: 2006/6/20 13:10 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4423 |
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| Gideon_FL | Posted: 2006/6/20 13:45 Updated: 2006/6/20 13:45 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/8/25 From: SW FL Posts: 169 |
rossi wrote:
.guys the Welsh archdruid(the High Priest of the Kingdom)Ronan and your new Matriarch are biscuit of the same bag, don't loose your time listening to his blabla. Biscuit of the same bag!!! Thanks for helping to brighten my day, rossi! And, of course, you are "spot on" with your analysis. cheers/Gideon |
| frjude | Posted: 2006/6/20 14:42 Updated: 2006/6/20 14:42 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/1/9 From: Heartland Posts: 277 |
"What the Archbishop does not raise at this stage - for it would be ungracious and out of order - is whether in fact by electing this particular female bishop, with her known progressive and liberal views and commitments, the Episcopal Church has already declared its intention to walk alone."
WHY would it be "ungracious and out of order"? I simply do not agree! It would be a mark of Christian LEADERSHIP to TAKE A STAND. TEC HAS, in fact, with the 'consecration' of Robinson, its election of the (so-called)Bp of Nevada, and its (which will happen in the next day or 2)rejection of Windsor. We need LEADERSHIP from Canterbury. |
| rossi | Posted: 2006/6/20 14:58 Updated: 2006/6/20 14:58 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Redcar, England Posts: 639 |
Guys when the diocese of the Recife asked for his help he didn't do nothing.Do you think that he will do anything now?
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| rossi | Posted: 2006/6/20 15:16 Updated: 2006/6/20 15:16 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/18 From: Redcar, England Posts: 639 |
Shwmae Cennydd,sut ydych chi? Druid in England today is a priest of the pagan religion(old celtic religion+new age),that people that tomorow 21/6, the first day of the summer will
go in pilgrimation to Stonehenge to warship the mother earth ,smoking marijiana, drinking and having sex all kind(including that one that Gene Robinson likes,in his backside),when I call him a druid is becouse his theology and also that of your new Matriarch and what these new pagans beleave is almost the same.I think that when Her Holiness comes to pay a call to our High Priest could do a pilgrimation to Stonehenge. |
| MichaelA | Posted: 2006/6/21 2:06 Updated: 2006/6/21 2:06 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/5/29 From: Posts: 869 |
"Guys when the diocese of the Recife asked for his help he didn't do nothing.Do you think that he will do anything now?"
Good point Rossi. However, what ABC saw then was that the Primate of the Southern Cone stepped in and gave that help to the diocese of Recife. So now ACB knows that there is more at stake here. Since then, Rwanda, Kenya and Uganda have all shown their willingness to answer calls for help from America. So ACB's natural reaction to quietly do nothing will not be the end of the matter. IXCXNIKA gave an excellent analysis of this aspect on another thread. I am thinking that the bishop of Fort Worth has already thought this through when he made his appeal to ACB, and he may have contingency plans ready in the event of a Rowan Refusal. |
| MichaelA | Posted: 2006/6/21 2:09 Updated: 2006/6/21 2:09 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/5/29 From: Posts: 869 |
"Shwmae Cennydd,sut ydych chi?"
Rossi, is that Welsh, or is it Cumbric (which i believe is related to Welsh)? |






















