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GC2006 : COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth Diocese
Posted by David Virtue on 2006/6/19 13:30:00 (6468 reads)

COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth Diocese

By Peter Toon
Virtueonline correspondent
www.virtueonline.org
6/19/2006

There have been appeals over the centuries to the Archbishop of Canterbury for help for a variety of reasons but none has previously asked for "alternative Primatial oversight." This is what the Diocese of Fort Worth has requested in Letters sent to London, England, from Columbus, Ohio, on Monday June 19, 2006.

Certainly for the Primates' Meeting and for the Anglican Panel of Reference (which seeks to mediate in internal Anglican disputes) it is certainly a first, a remarkable first, to be asked to help to provide the equivalent of a stand-in Archbishop for the duly appointed local Presiding Bishop and Primate of the Episcopal Church, the Rt. Rev. Katherine Jefferts Schori (elected as such on June 18).

What the Diocese of Forth Worth is asking for as it requests an alternative Primate may be compared to, say, the diocese of Newcastle in northern England, whose Primate is the Archbishop of York, asking to be placed under the Archbishop of Canterbury, whose own province is geographically the south of England. It is a nearly unthinkable thing ; but in the present crisis of the Anglican Communion it is not unexpected!

The reason why the Diocese of Fort Worth is making this amazing request is very clear. The diocese has consistently opposed the ordination of women to the Presbyterate and Episcopate; and so it is logical that it should oppose having a female bishop as the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church. In practical terms, her appointment means having a woman over men in the hierarchy of the Ministry and Episcopate and this is seen as being against the biblical teaching on headship and against the consistent teaching and practice of the Church through space and time. There is, also, in the case of Bishop Katherine her clear commitment to a variety of modern innovations in worship, doctrine and discipline (particularly in regard to matters of sexuality). In fact for Fort Worth Diocese she is not in the apostolic succession of bishops or apostles' teaching!

But have the Bishop and the Standing Committee of the Diocese of Fort Worth by this action gone farther then they realize? Have they effectively said that they will not be any longer a diocese of the Episcopal Church when from November there is a female Presiding Bishop? Are they stating that they will be leaving the Episcopal Church soon (and looking for an overseas province of which they can become a member diocese)?

The answer to these question is technically speaking, "No." However, the fact that the Diocesan leadership has acted so quickly in appealing to Lambeth Palace in London suggests that opposition to female ordination is deeply embedded in their understanding of the Anglican Way, and they may have come near to the end of their patience with the progressively liberal Episcopal Church. This Texan diocese is probably the most coherent and unified diocese in this Church even though it is united in a traditional form of the Episcopal Religion which a majority in the Church actually rejects.

In fact, though it identifies with the Anglican Communion Network, Fort Worth does have a major difference with the majority in the Network, in that it stand so firmly for the male-only priesthood, on the basis that the priest is an icon of Christ who was/is male. So any action it takes on the basis of this commitment would make it to act as a minority, since the Network has worked hard to prevent the ordination of women becoming an issue within its ranks, who are united organizationally on the lowest common denominator rather than on the highest.

What Fort Worth could seek to do within the Network is to persuade Network partners that there is no biblical basis for ordaining women as presbyters or consecrating them as chief pastors (bishops). Further they could try to show that when the Scriptures are "bent" to make them allow such ordinations, a method is established that has been used to justify other things, from the blessing of second and third marriages (serial monogamy) to the blessing of same-sex couples.

Possibly the time has come for The Network - as did the AMiA - to appoint a theological commission to look critically and prayerfully into the matter of ordaining women and placing them in positions of headship - especially within the social context in the Episcopal Church where the relation of women's ordination to radical changes such as the language used to describe and address God is clear.

END

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Poster Thread
warmac9999
Posted: 2006/6/19 16:36  Updated: 2006/6/19 16:36
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/2/16
From:
Posts: 1447
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
The diocese of Fort Worth clearly sees that all of the actions of the GC2003 and now GC2006 conventions are creating a new religion devoid of Christian principles. The election of Robinson began the process of undermining the religious foundation and now the election of Schori has fully clarified the intent of the ecusa to reject the faith once delivered in its entirety. Condemnation of the Bible and abuse of the Communion table are but a start. Look for GC2009 to reject the divinity of Jesus.
ICXCNIKA
Posted: 2006/6/19 16:42  Updated: 2006/6/19 16:42
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 82
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Fr. Toon...the last three paragraphs hit the nail on the head. The Network can no longer turn a blind eye to the problem with WO just to keep all of their ranks together. If ecumenical dialogue is so important for us with Rome and East...even with our own primates in the greater AC...than why do some so called 'conservative' bishops ignore this 'log in the eye'. It's time to handle this once for all, and it will be up to the likes of +Iker, +Ackerman, +Schofield, etc. to make this a priority at this point.
chalice
Posted: 2006/6/19 16:54  Updated: 2006/6/19 16:54
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/1/12
From:
Posts: 99
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Please recall that The Rt. Rev. Robinson Cavalcanti of Recife ALSO appealed for primatial oversight and received it from Gregory Venables. This effectively removed the Diocese of Recife from the Province of Brazil placing it within the jurisdiction of the Southern Cone. There is a precedent for Bishop Iker ... and, by the way, RW did not intervene in the realignment.
ICXCNIKA
Posted: 2006/6/19 16:59  Updated: 2006/6/19 16:59
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 82
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Thanks for that very useful point, Chalice. You are correct and hopefully this will give pause for thought in this ongoing and messy...but necessary...split.
Cennydd
Posted: 2006/6/19 17:47  Updated: 2006/6/19 17:47
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6684
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Neither Bishops Ackerman of Quincy nor Schofield of San Joaquin ordain women to the priesthood, nor do they support ordaining them to the espicopacy. I predict that they will follow Bishop Iker's lead.

Cennydd
IMGB007
Posted: 2006/6/19 19:46  Updated: 2006/6/19 19:49
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/15
From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 93
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Quote:
I predict that they will follow Bishop Iker's lead.


I pray that Bp. Schofield, indeed, does something, my friend. And sooner, rather than later. I just can't keep waiting around as the national episcobaal church keeps getting a pass on their heresy. Not making a choice is making a choice.

Wow, my last sentence almost sounds Griswoldian.
**washes mouth out with soap**
rossi
Posted: 2006/6/19 20:30  Updated: 2006/6/19 20:30
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Redcar, England
Posts: 639
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Guys I think that you should stop thinking about
to leave or not to leave the Pagan Episcopal Church, in America you will find a true Christian
Church jus few yards of your homes, do not matter
the name of the denomination.But here in the North of England If I leave my Carismatic C of E
Congregation I will not find a decent Christian church to go, the nearest that can find is 10 miles,you should thank God ,becouse you have so many Christian congregations in America.here in the Northeast of England, we have towns with 20000 ro 30000 people, without any Evangelical church. If I could I would emigrate to America tomorow.
wooly
Posted: 2006/6/19 20:43  Updated: 2006/6/19 20:43
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2005/2/3
From:
Posts: 29
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Rossi is right. It is at least partly because so many ECUSites do not know the first of the 10 commandments, and therefore put the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion BEFORE God, and obedience to HIS Word, that there is not full scale recognition of the fact that there ARE MANY other faithful, evangelical, Biblical NON-Anglican/Episcopal churches available to choose from. Sell your soul to ECUSA? How is that different from selling your soul to the devil?
IMGB007
Posted: 2006/6/19 20:45  Updated: 2006/6/19 20:48
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/15
From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 93
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Thanks for your thoughts Rossi. I have sympathy for your situation, as I am in a quite similar one myself. I live in a little town of 25,000 people in the middle of the Mojave Desert, 120 miles minimum to any other city where I'd be able to look for another anglican-type church. And like you, there just isn't a good alternative for me to choose from here in my home town. I love my church family (Go St. Michael's!!! ) and I thank God we are orthodox and in an orthodox diocese. However, if something isn't done soon, I won't continue to wait. I'll have to bite the bullet and go somewhere else, incredibly few choices though they may be.

God bless,
Greg
wooly
Posted: 2006/6/19 20:51  Updated: 2006/6/19 20:51
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2005/2/3
From:
Posts: 29
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
A word from Oswald Chambers to all of us who need to obey God more faithfully: "Obey God, with glad, reckless joy."
mathman
Posted: 2006/6/19 21:17  Updated: 2006/6/19 21:17
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/26
From: Rockville, MD
Posts: 1028
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
All of this "it's never happened before" yak-yak has got to stop. Will you all please go read your church history? Particularly the second through the fifth centuries, if you will.
There were lots of instances of heretic Bishops and heretic Provinces back then. And it was not as rigidly geographic as it is now, either.
Come on, friends. Get thee diligently to a Church History, and READ. There is nothing new under the Sun (Except for Jesus, and He was prophesied). Heresies come, heresies go, new splinter groups are founded, and dwindle away, the Bible is lost and found again... It just keeps happening. Talked to any Marcionites lately? Or any Schwenkenfelders? Or any Shakers? I could go on for days. How about those Nicolaitans? They disappeared so quickly that I can find no reference to what St John was condemning!

All will become new in the City of God, where there will be no more tears, and meanwhile we got a mess to clean up.
rossi
Posted: 2006/6/19 22:14  Updated: 2006/6/19 22:14
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: Redcar, England
Posts: 639
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
guys what about godislove(father Steve)to be elected the new bishop of Nevada, Iam sure that he is the ideal candidate, he must be in a samesex stable relationship.
shytech74
Posted: 2006/6/19 22:33  Updated: 2006/6/19 22:34
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/4/23
From: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1031
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
How about those Nicolaitans? They disappeared so quickly that I can find no reference to what St John was condemning!

quote by mathman
-----------------------------------------------
Hi mathman. I studied this up a while ago, when I took my clergyman to task for mentioning them in a sermon out of context while preaching on the churches of Rev. "nicos" to conquer; "laos" the people. To conquer the people, to lord it over the people, clergy domineering the flock to their own advantage and gain. No longer existing you say?
Look around and behold...

Which thing I HATE
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/19 22:57  Updated: 2006/6/19 22:58
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
"All of this "it's never happened before" yak-yak has got to stop. Will you all please go read your church history? Particularly the second through the fifth centuries, if you will.
There were lots of instances of heretic Bishops and heretic Provinces back then. And it was not as rigidly geographic as it is now, either.
Come on, friends. Get thee diligently to a Church History, and READ. There is nothing new under the Sun (Except for Jesus, and He was prophesied). Heresies come, heresies go, new splinter groups are founded, and dwindle away, the Bible is lost and found again... It just keeps happening"

Very good point Mathman. Fort Worth Diocese is not doing anything new. If a bishop is apostate, toss him! (or her). "Apostolic succession" is a fine thing if the bishop is faithful, and a terrible thing if he is not.

We should thank God for the bishop of Recife, and for the American congregations who sought the oversight of faithful bishops, wherever in the world they were to be found. They have set a sound example for all Anglicans.
Blake
Posted: 2006/6/20 4:16  Updated: 2006/6/20 4:16
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/3
From:
Posts: 7
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Then I supposed we better remove Queen Elizabeth from being the Head of the Church and Defender of the Faith. So only when their are Kings on the thrown will we have men has "true heads" of the church. When we have Queens - we simply wouldn't have a "Head of the Church."
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/20 4:41  Updated: 2006/6/20 4:41
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Appealling to the ABC is pointless, for he has no power or authority to do anything.

What orthodox Episcopalians need is a universal Pastor who can act and speak as the final authority on doctrine and praxis, and can prevent fringe elements form corrupting the Faith in the (blasphemed) name of the Holy Spirit.

The Anglican Communion, sadly, has no such universal Pastor. But God has given us one, who has kept the Bride pure and united for 2000 years.

He is currently living in Rome.

Pax,

John
wnpaul
Posted: 2006/6/20 7:08  Updated: 2006/6/20 7:10
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2004/1/6
From: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 35
 Re: Universal Pastor
John,

I suggest you wake up. "Kept the Bride pure and united for 2000 years"? What about the split between East and West? What about the abuses at the highest level which led to the Reformation? What about recurring scandals of one kind or another to which the response from the "universal Pastor" and his staff is usually too little too late? Have you lived in supposedly Catholic countries like Austria, ...

* where the Catholic book stores are full of books extolling the virtues of the Dalai Lama or various New Age ideas? I am talking about stores which are at least partly owned by dioceses or religious orders.

* where Catholic politicians support legalized abortion through the first trimester and stifle all discussion of the subject without any comment from the bishops? (Just recently, a layman who criticized the bishops for this here in Austria was encouraged to step down from all of his church related positions.)

* where 60-70% of the offerings of Catholic Retreat Houses promote New Age ideas rather than Christian teaching? It's been pointed out to the bishops but little is being done about it.

* And we don't need to go to Europe for problems, or mention sex abuse scandals; are you aware of the conflict in a Californian parish under the jurisdiction of the "universal Pastor" where the faithful are being harrassed for kneeling at the elevation?

This is not to knock the Catholic Church or Pope Benedict, for whom I have a very high regard, or to condone what goes on in ECUSA and other liberal Protestant churches; it is just to remind everyone that all visible churches have major flaws; some obviously more than others (or at least more visibly than others), and the pure and perfect Bride of Christ will not become manifest until the Bridegroom returns.
Anonymous
Posted: 2006/6/20 12:59  Updated: 2006/6/20 13:04
 Re: Universal Pastor
I am compelled to speak up in jmichals defense to the points made by wnpaul and I note that he [wnpaul] explicity said he is not knocking the RCC. First of all it must be remembered that abuses of every kind will occur in every church. The Catholic Church is no exception but happens to be biggest and as such the most noticeable. Many who claim they are Catholic are Catholic in name only and could not tell the difference between a Saint and a stigmata. Ask them if they ever read the CCC. Europe is also bankrupt of its Christian roots due to its own making with secularism, liberalism and its enlightenment.

In Canada where I live 19 priests recently voiced their support for same-sex marriage and that was that. They were quietly disciplined but it did not make the news.

So what is my point? The point is that at least the Catholic church while a huge monolithic slow moving monster has held to its core doctrine as set out in the Catechism over the many years. Agree with it or not its head has authority. Something which flew out the door with the reformation. ECUSA, the ACoC and the CoE cannot claim that for themselves. As a result of the mess in the Anglican communion, I have studied the arguments for and against sola scriptura which came out of the reformation (Article 6 of the 39 Anglican articles) and I am totally convinced that it incorrect. See "As Eye See It : All the vain things that charm me most . . . by Steve Jecko" for an abridged version of that ongoing debate.

Their rich history is to be admired in my opinion and in many respects they provide a beacon of light indirectly for many Christians worldwide. The late JPII was testimony of that.

God Bless

BHTech
MichaelA
Posted: 2006/6/21 1:43  Updated: 2006/6/21 1:43
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/29
From:
Posts: 869
 Re: Universal Pastor
BHTech,

If the Roman Catholics were prepared to admit to problems in the fashion that you have done (well, a teeny bit...), there would be less controversy. But they don't. JMichal's absolute statement is typical.

Also, it is typical of Roman Catholics to dredge up every problem they can find in Protestantism or Eastern Orthodoxy and trumpet it as proof of Rome's superiority, yet as soon as a member of those other churches points out the *very* spotty character of the Church of Rome, both now and in past history, they run a similar argument to yours.

Talk about double standards!
Santeez
Posted: 2006/6/26 4:39  Updated: 2006/6/26 4:39
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/2/10
From: Colorado
Posts: 3
 Re: COLUMBUS, OH: No female Presiding Bishop for Fort Worth
Talk about leaving, Yes many have, and so did I. I am AMIA and love being there, I recent ECUSA continuing to count me as a member of ECUSA, I am not, yet they continue to include me in the same old 2.3 million member tally. that figure was probably inflated in 2000 or before, since 2003 the actual number of those of us who have left has been considerable, truth be known the Episcopal Ch has shrunk considerably, yet they hold to the same old song and dance of what used to be, I wish there was an accurate way of know the actual true count of those still there.
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