Exclusives : SEE, I TOLD YOU SO
SEE, I TOLD YOU SO
(With apologies to Rush Limbaugh)
Commentary
By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
2/13/2006
Vicki Gene Robinson, the Bishop of New Hampshire has come out of the closet and admitted that he is an alcoholic. He is now in a rehab clinic.
The bishop wrote saying he was in an alcohol treatment center with the encouragement and support of his partner, daughters and colleagues, and had checked himself in to deal with his increasing dependence on alcohol. He says he will be there for 28 days. "I will be dealing with the disease of alcoholism-which, for years, I have thought of as a failure of will or discipline on my part, rather than a disease over which my particular body simply has no control, except to stop drinking altogether," he wrote in a letter to the Diocese of New Hampshire.
The Episcopal Church's revisionists have already begun to turn him into a hero.
Susan Russell, the President of the pansexual organization, Integrity USA, wrote in a note to her people, "Please keep our brother +Gene in your prayers for a powerful anointing of God's healing grace as we continue to give thanks for his ministry as a Bishop in the Church of God and for his exemplary witness of courageous and faithful honesty."
Here we have a man who was married to a woman with whom he had two children, divorces her, meets a man he shacks up with while he is an Episcopal priest, and then gets consecrated as a bishop, Two years later announces he has an alcohol problem, which the Episcopal Church Left is already spinning to make him look like a victim of his own drinking.
It is one more example of the Left trumpeting sin as a noble cause. The Global South bishops will not be happy, and they will see it as one more nail in the coffin of ECUSA.
There is, of course, a standing joke among Episcopalians, that wherever three or four are gathered together there you will find a fifth, (and it is our good friend Jack Daniels).
Alcoholism is not exactly new, and there is little shame admitting the fact that one has a drinking problem. Many people find Christ for the first time in an AA program, though it is no longer specifically a Christian organization, even though its founders were. I have a number of friends who are recovering alcoholics. (One is on my board).
There would be more shame in declaring you were an alcoholic if you were a Baptist than an Episcopalian. Baptists have a 'no drinking' policy, which for the most part holds up pretty well. Episcopalians, by comparison, drink like fish.
"During my first week here, I have learned so much," said Robinson. "The extraordinary experience of community here will inform my ministry for years to come. I eagerly look forward to continuing my recovery in your midst. Once again, God is proving His desire and ability to bring an Easter out of Good Friday. Please keep me in your prayers and know that you are in mine."
So there is no admission that it is personal failure, just a "disease". It's the same argument that homosexuals use for practicing anal sex. "It is hard wired, I can't help myself." Then the person gets AIDS and dies, cutting 40 years off of his life. Blame it on the disease. Never admit to personal responsibility.
The truth is Bishop Robinson is a fraud. See, I told you so. He's become a poster child of the Episcopal Left. The former Bishop of New Hamphsire, Douglas E. Theuner spent a decade brokering him in as bishop. He and they are saying sin is not, or no longer, a sin.
You cannot go on spinning a lie. Robinson's gay life style is not becoming a Christian. His lifestyle is emptying the church, and now we learn that he is also an alcoholic. What other secrets does he have? Any honest believing Christian believer has to ask what his unrepentant homosexuality has got to do with his alcoholism.
The Senior Warden of a small parish in NH and a recovering alcoholic wrote to VirtueOnline and said this: "I have been sober 29 years plus. I know Gene Robinson and I have a few thoughts on his service during his alcoholism. If one is listening to the spirit of alcohol, one cannot listen to the Spirit of God. So every time he's said he knows he's doing God's will, given the disruption of his spiritual relationship by his drinking, was it God talking, or demon rum? Carl Jung described the active alcoholic as "His Majesty the Baby". Robinson fits the mold.
"Recent Gay and Alcoholic epidemiologic and clinical issues reveals that estimates of problematic alcohol use, derived from early literature, for both gay men and lesbians have tended to cluster around a prevalence rate of 30 percent. Despite the use of divergent sampling and measurement techniques, these studies as a whole indicated prevalence rates of problematic alcohol use to be far in excess of the figure of 10 percent usually ascribed to the general population."
Data from an opportunistic sample of gay men being followed in a natural history study of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection showed high rates of lifetime alcohol (36 percent) or other drug (48 percent) abuse. See the following link,
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_n2_v15/ai_12490663#continue
The spiritual conclusion one can draw upon, is that per capita, three times as many homosexual people as straight people report problems with alcohol and substance abuse. Furthermore there is a spiritual principle behind this data that Man wants to cover up his sin, rather than repent of it, rather than seek justification and a life of sanctification.
The Episcopal Left will not see this for what it truly is, but will wrap it in the swaddling clothes of personal victimhood and "courageous honesty."
This writer has no personal axe to grind with the Bishop of New Hampshire, and neither do most orthodox priests I know. Many would fly to his rehab clinic to sit along side him and lead him in prayers for repentance and amendment of life, in all areas of his life.
Gene Robinson checks himself into a rehab clinic to overcome his improper desire for alcohol. But what is truly more important here? Perhaps he should check in with an orthodox church and ask God's help to overcome his improper desire for sodomy. If he did that he might just, single-handedly, turn the church around.
To spin this as Robinson being a victim of his own physiology is to betray the truth that Robinson, like all of us, separates himself from almighty God, and it is only through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ that we have newness of life.
So here's to you Bishop Robinson...Jesus loves you more than you can know, whoa, whoa whoa, hey, hey hey. And he is right beside you waiting to hear your confession.
END
The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.
| Poster | Thread |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2006/2/14 0:32 Updated: 2006/2/14 0:32 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
 Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO"Any honest believing Christian believer has to ask what his unrepentant homosexuality has got to do with his alcoholism."
--- Hemingway said that homosexuals drink a lot (and take drugs a lot) because they are deep down sickened by their own fecal proclivities. I believe him. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| essodalori | Posted: 2006/2/14 0:33 Updated: 2006/2/14 0:35 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO "Perhaps he should check in with an orthodox church and ask God's help to overcome his improper desire for sodomy. If he did that he might just, single-handedly, turn the church around."
--- Vickie; you could be a real hero. Be free of the wages of sin. Humble yourself before the Lord, and He will exalt you. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Traktaryan | Posted: 2006/2/14 0:46 Updated: 2006/2/14 0:46 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/7/16 From: Posts: 764 |
The LONG Lost Weekend So it was all just one extended binge? Maybe he'll get out of rehab, come home and be shocked back into reality:
Who are you and what are you doing in my house? And where are my wife and kids? And what's this mitre doing on my dresser? I'm WHAT???  |
| OtisPage | Posted: 2006/2/14 1:03 Updated: 2006/2/14 1:03 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 667 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Gene Robinson is apostate assuming he ever was a Christian. Consider Hebrews 6:4-6!
Gene Robinson exemplifies the wicked in ECUSA. Consider 1Cor 5:11-13. Gene Robinson is evil. "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good."(Rom 12:9) |
| lkwells | Posted: 2006/2/14 1:13 Updated: 2006/2/14 1:13 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/2/19 From: Posts: 607 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Everybody knows that ECUSA could have saved itself a lot of grief if VGR had never happened. And nobody knows better than Frank Griswold that a lot of trouble could be avoided if VGR would just go away. So I can't help but wonder, is this sudden discovery of alcoholism a prelude to a resignation? Will Vickie's moment of clarity in the rehab tell him that his sensitive and poetic soul just can't cope with the rigors of the episcopal office, with all those nasty homophobic fundamentalists leaving the church and taking all their bucks? I have learned that when you hear hoof-beats, it is better to think of zebras. Just wondering out loud......
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| PRISCA | Posted: 2006/2/14 1:13 Updated: 2006/2/14 1:13 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/8/3 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 269 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO We should all strive to remember that our salvation proceeds out of God's pitying love, not His anger.
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| Fiona | Posted: 2006/2/14 2:25 Updated: 2006/2/14 2:25 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/1/18 From: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 1071 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Gene Robinson checks himself into a rehab clinic to overcome his improper desire for alcohol. But what is truly more important here? Perhaps he should check in with an orthodox church and ask God's help to overcome his improper desire for sodomy. If he did that he might just, single-handedly, turn the church around.
He had this problem for years? Where was the vetting of the Standing Committee on this aspect of his profile? Don't tell me--they just had to have him. I'm waiting for the next shoe to drop--once VGR's heroism has been discussed, the blame will now shift to the orthodox in the Episcopal church who actually drove him to drink! Fiona |
| morrismpls | Posted: 2006/2/14 3:10 Updated: 2006/2/14 3:10 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 506 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO I don't think this is a prelude to a resignation. All VGR's speeches focus on himself as he became the bon vivant of the leftist's rubber chicken circuit. His ego won't allow it.
As the saying goes, the tooth paste is out of the tube. Even if VGR were to resign the point is that unless the ECUSA backs down from the position that it has the very right and privilege to consecrate anyone bishop regardless of any of umpteen categories of sexual preference. If the orthodox provinces have any spines whatsoever they won't fall for any VGR resignation ploy. It is literal sleight of hand. Pay no attention to the right hand, watch what I'm doing with the left. It would be the most cynical ploy ever attempted. Hmmm...maybe that's their gambit after all. |
| Hatherly | Posted: 2006/2/14 3:33 Updated: 2006/2/14 3:33 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2005/11/21 From: Australia Posts: 90 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO I'm surprised its not HIV/whatever instead of Alcoholism...maybe wait and see, if he has one partner he has had MANY others rest assured, what do they say then?
Congratulations DV on your comments above. Brian |
| OtisPage | Posted: 2006/2/14 4:10 Updated: 2006/2/14 11:27 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 667 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Respected and honored Prisca. We must always remember that God's wrath proceeds against evil and apostasy.
The Bishop of NH, Gene Robinson, is evil and apostate if, and this is a big IF, he ever was a Christian. Anglicans should come to understand that God's love flies out the door when he is grieved by evil, and ECUSA's apostasy is evil in its most vulgar form. These are hard facts -- but is there anything worst than the hideous tragedy facing the innocent Saints in ECUSA today -- that they too may be dragged into risking their salvation because they are ignoring the apostasy evident before them? Anglicans are dealing with Satan here -- not just some jolly bishop sopped in wine who betrayed his wife and two daughters for the erotic recreation of sodomy with another man. |
| rpearse | Posted: 2006/2/14 7:41 Updated: 2006/2/14 7:41 |
Quite a regular  Joined: 2004/4/24 From: Posts: 52 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO I think that we should indeed pray for this poor soul. His sin is visible to everyone, including, it would seem, himself.
All the best, Roger Pearse |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/2/14 11:24 Updated: 2006/2/14 11:24 |
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Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO WILLIAMS AND GRISWOLD GET IN LINE, DECLARE ‘WE’RE HEROES, TOO’
Johuvth Veli, Indonesian Bureau Moments Ago—Jakarta, Indonesia—St. Valentine’s Day The Archbishop of Canterbury and the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church U.S.A. (ECUSA) announced this morning that they are following the lead of Gene Robinson, Bishop of New Hampshire, confessing that they, too, have had substance abuse problems which qualify each of them to be heroes in their own right. Robinson was declared a hero yesterday when he admitted to being an alcoholic. A bronze bust of the famous bishop is now being prepared for placement in the Smithsonian Institution. “We’re heroes, too,” said Archbishop Williams in a prepared statement. “For many years I have enjoyed a good sniff of glue, but never felt free to express myself until Gene came out yesterday. This is a major step forward for our religion. Everybody wins. Everybody’s a hero—if you’re chemically dependent, that is. Glue sniffing has been a crutch for me for many years. I used to do the hard stuff, but now I just smell a little Elmer’s every now and then. Gene has inspired me to come out of the closet.” “I have also had a problem,” Griswold said. “But now that Gene has come out, I feel liberated to tell the truth,” he said from his bunker at 815 Second Ave. in New York. “Here is the secret I have hidden for too long: I have been addicted to Cuban cigars ever since Castro and I struck up a friendship at a Communist Workers Party meeting 40 years ago. There, I said it. I’m free!” Griswold was later admitted to the hospital, when he reportedly also said he thought he was Shelly Winters. Even the White House was moved by the heroic statements of the three clergymen. “This is a great day for heroes everywhere,” said President Bush. “The men and women fighting in Iraq are fighting for our substance abuse tendencies. Hey, I used to throw back a few myself, years ago,” he said. Worldwide, it is estimated that 43,850 clergy members are heroic substance abusers; however, only a small percentage of these persons are also homosexual—that is, doubly heroic. “That is what makes my own coming out so special,” said Bishop Robinson from his office in New Hampshire. “That’s why the Smithsonian people called.” jotv |
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| melora20 | Posted: 2006/2/14 12:13 Updated: 2006/2/14 12:13 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/3/27 From: Southern Indiana Posts: 227 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Bishop Robinson needs our prayers, that he will be healed of the demons which possess him. And I don't mean alcoholism, or homophilia. Those are symptoms.
He is not the problem with ECUSA, which also needs our prayers. He is only a symptom, a symbol, of the spirit which possesses it. If he were to resign at this moment, nothing substantive would change. |
| jfmckenna | Posted: 2006/2/14 12:20 Updated: 2006/2/14 12:20 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/2/4 From: Posts: 718 |
a WATERSHED event This event will probably, hopefully, be a turning point. Let's remember where to aim our fire. Who is most at fault -- the homosexuals who are driven by urges so difficult to control (just two percent of the population) or the vastly higher percentage of the population who are actively or passively legitimizing this? What must be exposed is the spirit of bogus benevolence! When that is accomplished, the victory will be won and we will stand astonished that we went through all this for so long. If this isn't the beginning of the end of bogus benevolence, it's at least the end of the beginning.
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| esniii | Posted: 2006/2/14 12:27 Updated: 2006/2/14 12:27 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/3/29 From: Posts: 398 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Quote:
I have learned that when you hear hoof-beats, it is better to think of zebras.... Actually, if I hear hoof-beats these days I am more likely to think of Durer's four horsemen from Revelations... |
| JimMcNeely | Posted: 2006/2/14 12:55 Updated: 2006/2/14 13:09 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/4/7 From: Posts: 701 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Few people are asking questions about the timing of this announcement and this move on VGR's part. Here we are - a few months away from perhaps the most important General Convention in a generation - and VGR admits he has an alcohol problem and checks into a rehab hospital. What are the political ramifications behind both the move and its timing.
I could be wrong, but I believe there is the potential here for setting VGR up as a "real hero, worthy of our pity and respect." "Poor Vickie Gene...afer so much struggle, he is just giving in to the bottle. How sad..." While I do not in any way wish to minimize the evils of drink and the power of rehabilitation. I also have prayed and will pray for VGR. But one cannot accept things de facto from this bunch. There is almost always a political element to every move. -Jim+ |
| warmac9999 | Posted: 2006/2/14 13:44 Updated: 2006/2/14 13:44 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1519 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Melora: You are correct. The ECUSA is well down the revisionist path and not looking to turn back. VGR is now the triple play that has damaged the clergy - alcoholic, divorcee, and homosexual. This is all accepted by a church that once considered anyone of these to be a ban to preaching from the pulpit. Our Episcopal "heros" are as far removed from our role model, Jesus, as it is possible to be so removed.
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| DnNeal | Posted: 2006/2/14 13:59 Updated: 2006/2/14 14:51 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO PRISCA
Thank you for the reminder of our dependence on God's compassion. I like these sayings from the Desert Fathers: ______________________________________________________ “A brother asked one of the elders for a definition of humility and he replied, ‘It is to pardon our brother who has wronged us before he himself asks our pardon.’ One of the elders was asked by a brother, ‘What is humility?’ and he answered, ‘It is to do good to those who do evil to us.’ The brother put forth a further question, ‘If one cannot go as far as that, what should one do?’ The elder replied, ‘Flee those who offend us and keep silent.’ ______________________________________________________ Saying of the Desert Fathers It is all about mercy and we so often don't get it. Often, especially in difficult situations like this (but also in simple ones), I'm not sure how to do it. May Christ make us like Himself so we may show mercy at all times and in all places and in the way each situation requires. Christ is in our midst! Neal |
| essodalori | Posted: 2006/2/14 14:44 Updated: 2006/2/14 14:45 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: a WATERSHED event "Who is most at fault -- the homosexuals who are driven by urges so difficult to control (just two percent of the population) or the vastly higher percentage of the population who are actively or passively legitimizing this? What must be exposed is the spirit of bogus benevolence!"
--- Indeed, jfmckenna. We are gravely at fault, because we have fallen hook, line and sinker for the homosexulist lies (It IS so much easier, you know...), and because we are afraid of loving confrontation. The result - the perverse and degenerate society we have today. All we have to do is to preach God's truth - and call everyone (including homosexuals to it). Many, many will be attracted to it, if we have the force of our convictions. Many will be cured of their deviant desires, and even when they aren't, their souls will be healed. There be work to do. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| gregory | Posted: 2006/2/14 15:21 Updated: 2006/2/14 15:22 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4481 |
Re: SEE, ------>> ""Durer's four horsemen from Revelations..."" |
| Traktaryan | Posted: 2006/2/14 15:39 Updated: 2006/2/14 15:39 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/16 From: Posts: 764 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO “That is what makes my own coming out so special,” said Bishop Robinson from his office in New Hampshire. “That’s why the Smithsonian people called.”
============== The people from Dewar's called, too. JOTV: bravo. I'm afraid you go under-appreciated on this blog. Not today. Excellent stuff. |
| polyphemos | Posted: 2006/2/14 16:01 Updated: 2006/2/14 16:01 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/6/29 From: και Θηος δη μεχανη Posts: 631 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO .
Hey Joe du Vallé, Fantastique! Encroyable! Beaujolais! or as we say hyere in the South... I'LL DRINK TO THAT! p & D |
| frcochran | Posted: 2006/2/14 17:26 Updated: 2006/2/14 17:26 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 545 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Otis,
I don't know if I agree completely with one of your earlier statements: Anglicans should come to understand that God's love flies out the door when he is grieved by evil, and ECUSA's apostasy is evil in its most vulgar form. I know that my evil and sinful ways grieves God, but I thank Him daily for not loving me less and abandoning me because of this. God's love tells us that He wants to see all of us repent. I think He is always there when we are grieving Him with our sin and rejoicing with the angels when we repent. Christ speaks to this with the parable of the Prodigal Son. I do agree with the rest of your quote. John+ |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2006/2/14 17:37 Updated: 2006/2/14 17:40 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 7358 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Something's going on here! While I commend Bishop Robinson for admitting that he has an alcohol addiction and is going through rehab.....just as I would for anyone else.....I think we are going to find that the LBGTQ crowd will try to use this as a political ploy. "See, he's just like anyone else....just like the rest of us! We're not so different, after all!" Sorry, but I just don't accept that argument. While his treatment might last 28 days, his recovery as an alcoholic will last for the rest of his life. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic!
Will he resign? No! Will he apologize for the damage he has caused the Church? No! The damage Vickie Gene and his friends in the LBGTQ crowd have done is incalculable and permanent. It cannot be undone. |
| Causidicus | Posted: 2006/2/14 17:42 Updated: 2006/2/14 17:42 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/3 From: Posts: 1188 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO It was the alcohol! Silly me. And all this time I thought it was the devil made him do it. - My apologies to Flip & "Geraldine"
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/2/14 18:26 Updated: 2006/2/14 18:26 |
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Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Trak,
VallleyJoe get's my vote of confidence and appreciation on this blog - And that's not because he announced my impending *candidacy as POTUS*   Seriously, I've got too many skeletons in my closet to be POTUS. Enough from me on this. G-man |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/2/14 18:29 Updated: 2006/2/14 18:29 |
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Re: SEE, ------>> Gregory the Great,
Thanx for the *Durer Illumination* - It really brought light to the hoof-beats in the jecusa/pecusa - revisionist church of equivocation and homobuggery. G-man |
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| RuthW | Posted: 2006/2/14 18:35 Updated: 2006/2/14 18:35 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2006/2/14 From: Posts: 1 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO "This writer has no personal axe to grind with the Bishop of New Hampshire, and neither do most orthodox priests I know. Many would fly to his rehab clinic to sit along side him and lead him in prayers for repentance and amendment of life, in all areas of his life."
I find this rather disingenuous, given that all I see on this site in regards to this matter is glee over the man's problems and over the thought of being handed a lot of ammunition with which to hurt the "Episcopal Left." |
| Festivus | Posted: 2006/2/14 18:37 Updated: 2006/2/14 18:39 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/12/2 From: Earth Posts: 240 |
Re: Mercy available I see the comments posted and while I agree with the premise of most, I am reminded what a dear elder once said: "It is the human inclination for people to want mercy for themselves but judgement for others."
God's mercy through Christ is always at hand for those who love him, those who obey his commands. We are never out or reach of His grace. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2006/2/14 18:44 Updated: 2006/2/14 18:58 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO "I find this rather disingenuous, given that all I see on this site in regards to this matter is glee over the man's problems and over the thought of being handed a lot of ammunition with which to hurt the "Episcopal Left."
--- C'mon, RuthW. Very few here are gleeful over Vickie-boy's psycho-problems. But few are surprised. I'm not. Homosexuals are vastly more likely to be alcoholic than sexually normal people (as well as to have all sorts of other psycho-problems [like narcissism, as an example]. Further, ECUSA is promoting evil of all sorts, and Vickie is part of the promotion. He promotes and glorifies sexual sin of all kinds - including to kids, he's a poster boy for homofecal sodomy and divorce, he tells people they're all going to heaven, no matter what (a giant unChristian lie, and an abnegation of Christ, and a lie which will destroy souls), he tells people we can't know where morality comes from (another broadside against God). The man is a fake and an imposter, super selfish, and greatly infected with evil - just like the rest of ECUSA is. We are commanded to love him (by bringing him to repentance). Apart from that, he is repugnant and deserves no respect from any true Christian. The hurt that is coming to ECUSA was self-earned (and richly deserved). You promote evil; you get what's coming to you. The wages of sin is death. ECUSA is dying from those wages. If anyone in ECUSA actually believed in what the Bible and Christ say, they would know that. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anglophile | Posted: 2006/2/14 19:17 Updated: 2006/2/14 19:17 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/6 From: Rochester,NY Posts: 164 |
 Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SOOnly in ecusa conditions and charcter flaws than would make anyone else anywhere else UNQUALIFIED to be a priest let alone a bishop make him more qualified??????? I knew this twit was unworthy to be a bishop and it is sweet to be proven right. The loony left is running the asylum. I don't know whether to laugh or cry? What a flake.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/2/14 19:26 Updated: 2006/2/14 19:27 |
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Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Dearest Ruth,
Welcome to VOL. With all respect, please see my earlier article about the amazing heroism of Gene Robinson. The Smithsonian Insitution is preparing a bust in bronze of The Reverend. He was always a hero, but now he is in a league by himself. Ruth, as a webmaster (Dr. Turner) noted yesterday when the news broke, leftists and other stupid people are taking Robinson’s “confession” at face value, but thinking people are asking a couple of very simple questions. If the man has a drinking problem, why is that national news? What prevented Mr. Robinson from quietly seeking help? I would submit to you, dear sister, that you have been duped along with about 90% of the rest of the Christian world, which has somehow been led to believe that if you draw a lot of public attention to your sins, this makes you a hero. This is a publicity stunt, nothing more, nothing less. Actually, I admire the p.r. specialist who conceived it—it was a brilliant move. Warmest regards, Joe |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/2/14 19:30 Updated: 2006/2/14 19:41 |
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Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO ITALIAN DRIVER BOWS OUT OF ’08 PRESIDENTIAL RACE
VirtueOnline Exclusive—Moments Ago Giovanni Andretti, the Italian racing legend who drives a lot faster than he types, bowed out of the 2008 race for the White House, citing, among other concerns, the fact that Italians who are not U.S. citizens can’t run for President of the United States. “I wanted to be POTUS. Okay, I admit it,” said Giovanni in a press conference in the Alps earlier today, where he was watching the Olympics with good friend Bode Miller, the reigning downhill champion. "It wasn't meant to be," he said humbly. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/2/14 19:41 Updated: 2006/2/14 19:50 |
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Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO "I find this rather disingenuous, given that all I see on this site in regards to this matter is glee over the man's problems and over the thought of being handed a lot of ammunition with which to hurt the 'Episcopal Left.'"
____ RuthW, Welcome to VOL. Will this be your only post, or will you seek to provide some counterbalance to that which you object to? I heard people say the same thing when the Right "took glee" when Bill Clinton was proven to be a perjurer and a philanderer. The Left's response was along the lines of, "Why would you take such glee in his failings and downfall? We're all human." And the answer was just like the title of this article, "I told you so" ... followed by, "I said he was a liar and a cheat, a pathological philanderer who couldn't honor his vows to his wife and couldn't control his baser nature, who would lie through his teeth and tell you precisely what you wanted to hear, and you didn't believe it. Now you're whining because I'm pointing out that it's all been proven true..." As for Robinson, I have wished him success in his effort to overcome his alcoholism; but it is also the case that his alcoholism confirms that he has deficiencies when it comes to: 1) self-control; 2) conforming to God's will; 3) avoiding self-destructive behaviors; 4) addressing them before they threaten his health; and 5) that God didn't "make him" an alcoholic; 6) that Robinson can thus "reform" his behavior; 7) that it requires faith in, and reliance upon, a "higher power" to succeed; and 8) that all of these facts bear precisely upon the issue of the Christian response to homosexuality. Finally, Robinson voluntarily chose to be a symbol of the revisionists agenda. He considered this heroic, a calling from God Almighty. The orthodox didn't chose him to be a symbol of anything, did we? I submit that whining when people therefore respond to him as a symbol is equivalent to the complaints of Hollywood celebrities about being pursued by the paperazi, even though those very same celebrities spend most waking moments cultivating their fame and seeking attention. If the past is any guide, those who complain about the tone of posts on VOL are revisionists who make one post and then don't return. I hope you are orthodox and that we hear from you again and again! |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/2/14 21:39 Updated: 2006/2/14 21:39 |
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Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO ValleyJoe,
Thanx for your charity - might you be angling for a POTUS candidacy? ValleyJoe for POTUS 2012! G-man |
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| MarkBrown | Posted: 2006/2/15 0:00 Updated: 2006/2/15 0:00 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/7/7 From: San Angelo, Texas Posts: 20 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO An excerpt from
http://www.nhepiscopal.org/bishop/bishop.html says: "Clergy wellness has long been a focus of Gene's ministry, and in the nineties he developed the "Being Well in Christ," conference model for The Cornerstone Project, and led clergy conferences in over 20 dioceses in the U.S. and Canada." |
| OtisPage | Posted: 2006/2/15 1:06 Updated: 2006/2/15 1:06 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 667 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO John (frcochran) you are obviously following the directions in 1John 1:5-10. You are cleansed by confession. Verse 9: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I believe one form of evil is unconfessed sin. Why? According to verse 10 in makes Christ a liar: “If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.” The homosexual will not admit that their homosexuality is a sin. They, therefore, will not confess it. And following this, they will not repent and turn to the truth of Christ's salvation promised in 2Cor 5:17: “Therefore if any person is in Christ, he or she is a new creature; the old things passed away, new things have come.” Here lies the great lie of ECUSA’s apostasy. They deny that homosexuality is a sin – when Scripture and Tradition clearly states it is! Otis |
| dturk | Posted: 2006/2/15 2:39 Updated: 2006/2/15 2:39 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Posts: 432 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Alcoholism is an illness and I pray for Robinson's recovery. However, this not a situation that just developed. It's a good bet that V. Gene has had a big problem with the bottle for years. It's also a good bet that he and a lot of other people hid this fact when he was in the running for bishop.
The fact that the discernment process missed this rather significant fact, is a further testament to the spiritual cluelessness and of the Diocese of New Hampshire. It seems that the only thing that disqualifies someone from the episcopacy, in their warped minds, is being able to pass a lie detector test while stating the Nicene Creed |
| tedw2 | Posted: 2006/2/15 2:49 Updated: 2006/2/15 2:49 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/2/15 From: Posts: 1 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Good article but:
"Alcoholism is not exactly new, and there is little shame admitting the fact that one has a drinking problem. Many people find Christ for the first time in an AA program, though it is no longer specifically a Christian organization, even though its founders were. I have a number of friends who are recovering alcoholics. (One is on my board)." Dr. Bob may have been Christian but Bill Wilson philandering and adultery disqualify him from that good name.At one time AA was a good organization but I think you will find that it has changed. A few people may find Christ through it but they are the exception and not the rule. AA istself promotes the "disease concept" and is accepting of the gay lifestyle. Their new fourth edition of Alcoholics Anonymous even includes a story of an unrepentant gay alcoholic. Gene Robinson is going to fit very well there. He may even become one of their prominent speaker. More details on my website: Christianrecovery.blogspot.com |
| MotherJean | Posted: 2006/2/15 19:48 Updated: 2006/2/15 19:48 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/1/5 From: San Juan Islands, WA State Posts: 7 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO So, to all of you out there (& this includes you, David) who have alcoholic friends & family...I'd like a show of hands on how many of those alcoholics checked themselves into treatment without some HUGE precipitating factor (i.e. loss of job, loss of family, facing jail time, etc.) quite literally forcing them to go? Anyone? Anyone?
Me either. That's why I say that I'm also waiting for the other shoe to drop...& by that I mean that we should soon hear some really awful scandal being leaked about Vicky Gene getting caught with some young boy or trolling gay bars & bathhouses...that sort of thing. He'll, of course, deny any responsibility for his disgusting behavior because (like his homosexuality) he's "hard wired" as an alcoholic & was too drunk at the time to even know what he was doing! Yeah, right. And, 28 days of blowing smoke up some alcohol counselor's behind (yeah, I know, poor choice of words) is going to make everything all better. Do I get a prize if I'm the next person who get's to say, "See, I told you so!"? |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/2/15 21:49 Updated: 2006/2/15 21:49 |
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Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Perhaps VGR and ECUSA may wish to comment on this...
****** LifeSiteNews.com Tuesday February 14, 2006 Gay Activists Ask Canada to Lower Age of Consent for Anal Sex, National Post Agrees By John-Henry Westen TORONTO, February 14, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Homosexual activists have long sought to distance themselves from pedophiles, however Canada's most prominent homosexual activist group has now demanded the lowering the age of consent for anal sex to 16 from 18. Surprisingly, Canada's National Post, regarded by some as a 'conservative' paper has come out in favour of the proposal. Reacting to the Conservative Government's plan to raise the age of consent for normal sex from 14 to 16, EGALE (Equality for Gays and Lesbians Everywhere) has commenced a campaign to have the age of consent for anal sex lowered to 16 from 18. Laurie Arron, the director of advocacy for EGALE remarked to the Ottawa Citizen, "There's no reason to treat anal sex differently than other sexual acts except to stigmatize gay and bisexual men." However, that statement is categorically false, speaking strictly from a medical standpoint. Even those who support homosexual sex acts warn nonetheless that anal sex is a dangerous activity, regardless of genders involved. The sex info site of the University of California at Santa Barbara, which can in no way be described as opposed to homosexual activity, nonetheless points out that anal sex is a dangerous practice. Full article found here Lifesite News |
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| bygrace | Posted: 2006/2/15 21:56 Updated: 2006/2/15 21:56 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2006/1/19 From: Louisiana Posts: 88 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO The depth of human depravity is truly fathomless!
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| goonole | Posted: 2006/2/16 1:16 Updated: 2006/2/16 1:16 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Posts: 40 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO I agree with MotherJean.....there is more to this story than being told. Something has happened to make him check into rehab, we just haven't heard it yet or it's getting swept under the rug.
So I'm wondering who will ask the question. Someone is making him check into rehab, whether that's his partner (I hate even saying that stupid word) or someone in charge of him - which I'm not sure who that could be. There's no way that he just woke up and decided that he's had too much of the bottle and it's destroying his life. There's got to be much more to this story....we should hear some spin or something soon. |
| gregory | Posted: 2006/2/16 12:12 Updated: 2006/2/16 12:12 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4481 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO BHTech, The truth of the matter is hard to face but needed and the article you post reveals the real facts and truth;
i provide the specific links; http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06021403.html ""Experts on sexual behaviour, or "sexperts" at the site refers to them, warn that anal sex is the most dangerous behaviour for transmission of HIV/AIDS and all other STDs since the anus is not designed for sexual activity as is the vagina. Moreover, the 'sexperts' warn that the practice also leads to fecal incontinence - loss of normal control of the sphincter muscles which leads to stool leaking from the rectum at unexpected times."" ===== Sociology Department at the University of California, Santa Barbara Question: What are the Dangers of Anal Sex? http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/?article=faq&refid=125 WARNING: graphic sketches used to illustrate |
| polyphemos | Posted: 2006/2/16 23:11 Updated: 2006/2/16 23:11 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/6/29 From: και Θηος δη μεχανη Posts: 631 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Dear MamaJ,
Were it in my power to grant you an ITYS, I would give it. However, whether you get one or not, you have earned it. p & DTWDog |
| JustaDrunk | Posted: 2006/2/17 8:11 Updated: 2006/2/17 8:12 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/2/17 From: Posts: 2 |
So there is no admission that it is personal failure, just a "disease". I have registered anew to protect my anonymity because I am one of the kind of drunks the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, describes as one who has lost the ability to control his drinking. Sadly, your belief that the "disease" of alcoholism is just a way of evading personal responsibility exhibits your lack of understanding and perhaps belief in the Christian doctrine of original sin. Please note, without this doctrine, Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, would not have had to do what He did to reconcile us with His Father.
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| gregory | Posted: 2006/2/17 10:28 Updated: 2006/2/17 10:30 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4481 |
Re: So there is no admission that it is personal failure, ju JustaDrunk, Welcome to VOL and thank you for posting.
Please explain; ""Sadly, your belief that the "disease" of alcoholism is just a way of evading personal responsibility exhibits your lack of understanding and perhaps belief in the Christian doctrine of original sin."" AND could you provide a link or two. I strongly agree with your statement; ""Please note, without this doctrine, Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, would not have had to do what He did to reconcile us with His Father.""  humbly hugging the foot of The Cross of Jesus Christ, gregory |
| heartafire | Posted: 2006/2/22 15:22 Updated: 2006/2/22 15:22 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/2/22 From: Posts: 2 |
Re: So there is no admission that it is personal failure, ju Thanks for your post--- I too am justadrunk, and I thank God for the gift of AA. As a nurse, I resisted the idea of alcoholism being a disease, because it did not fit so much of what I understood about the nature of disease. However, I have come to believe that the disease model fits. I truly believe that alcoholism is a disease, I was probably born with it, I certainly didn't "choose" it.
I think the same is probably true for homosexuals. Although the DSM removed it, I think it's helpful for us to consider it a disease, and the cure is the same as for alcohol, gambling and other compulsive behaviors: abstinence. So many gays I have known (I worked with AIDS patients for years) did not wish to be gay, and I know that a big argument is that they are born that way. Maybe you agree, maybe not, but my point is this: We are all born as sinful creatures, can we agree on that? Maybe one's "sin" is being quick to anger, or being a compulsive overeater, lusting after people you are not married to, a love of gossip, an addiction to shopping, gambling,lying, etc.etc. it really doesn't matter. Sin is sin, and there is no use in qualifying or quantifying it (yes, I do understand that our human laws result in differing consequences/penalities, but I am speaking of sin in the sense of what Jesus taught: "There is no one righteous" and that to "murder" with your mouth is the same as killing someone, in God's eyes, no hair-splitting allowed. ) The point is we cannot keep the law, we cannot be sin-free this side of paradise, and that is why we needed saving, thus a Savior. The great thing is, when we recognize sin, we can repent,confess it and be forgiven. So, having said all this, I am glad Gene Robinson is in treatment, I pray that he joins AA (best results for long-term recovery) and I pray he learns that Christ can do ANYTHING he chooses. Maybe he will take away Robinson's homosexuality, maybe not. The point is NOT that Gene Robinson is sinful because he's a homosexual. He is sinful because he's human. Just as he will learn to live life without alcohol (I pray), he can also live without homosexual sex, (if God does not choose to remove his homosexuality.) The problem with his ordination is that ECUSA is sending a message to all that sex outside of marriage is NOT sinful, when the Bible teaches clearly that it is. The issue is not homosexuality at all, but Biblical authority. And to all the posters on this site that sound so mean-spirited, and even to David Virtue for the glee you take in Robinson's latest sin-revelation, (ie "See I Told You"),you are JUST AS SINFUL as he is. The only difference is, (and it's a biggie), is that in listening to the Holy Spirit or to other Christians who care about you, you can be convicted of your sin, confess it, and be forgiven. Poor Gene Robinson.... it sounds like all he has around him is people telling him that sin is NOT sin, encouraging him in his sin, and supporting it. Our only response as Christians must be prayer. To Esso-- IMO, the interest you take in recounting all of the myriad ways that homosexual sex is expressed is somewhat disturbing; you could argue that it is just so that people will share your disgust, but honestly, as Christians we are to hate ALL sin, including unwholesome talk. I do agree with most of your theology, it's just your style I take issue with. I even like "earthiness" and "calling a thing a thing" as Martin Luther said, but there is something jarring about reading your posts, and not in a good way. |
| PRISCA | Posted: 2006/2/22 21:56 Updated: 2006/2/25 6:07 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/8/3 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 269 |
Re: So there is no admission that it is personal failure, ju I too have been an addict, and want to support JustaDrunk and heartafire.
My doctors addicted me to a valium-cognate as an unorthodox but effective treatment for migraine. My acceptance of this treatment was not sinful on my part. Others may get into an addiction by their own initial sinful decision. Either way, once the addiction is established, it is indeed an illness. The addict must answer in the positive the question, "Do you want to be made well?", but will not be freed merely by the decision to try to beat the addiction. Every kind of support will be needed, as the physical and emotional pain is frightful. For me, by my own decision the substance became unavailable, a vital part of the support. With heroin and alcohol (both easier to beat than a benzo), the substance can usually be obtained again, illegally or legally. The price of liberty, apart from enduring the agony of withdrawal and perhaps years of symptoms, is eternal vigilance! It is essential in most cases to dig down to the level of the underlying neediness of which the substance was the anodyne. Homosex if persisted in is an addiction. I have incidentally never known well any homosexually-inclined person whose real problem was homosex. If the underlying neediness goes unaddressed, that, or some other addiction, will always get a fresh grip on the individual. It is good and right to pray for the sick, even when they got themselves into their illness. I should like +Robinson in withdrawal to have as much prayer-support as I had. |
| Fiona | Posted: 2006/2/25 1:55 Updated: 2006/2/25 1:55 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/1/18 From: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 1071 |
Re: Mercy available I see the comments posted and while I agree with the premise of most, I am reminded what a dear elder once said: "It is the human inclination for people to want mercy for themselves but judgement for others."
Festivus: That came very close to home. I think that I will post that sentence on my office wall. Fiona |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2006/2/27 11:55 Updated: 2006/2/27 12:13 |
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Re: Mercy available As for me, the real "disease" isn't alcoholism.
Alcoholism is but one symptom or manifestation of something much broader and more problematic for humanity. The "disease" is one of compulsion/obsession/addiction, which I do believe are "built into" our genes. Everyone either has already got this disease or can succumb to (rather than catch) it. We're all carriers! Alcohol just happens to be a particularly effective and legal way of succumbing to an innate human tendency. But there are a million others, and I've known and seen many of them in myself and in my family: sleeping, working, running, sex, television, videogames, pornography, reading, sports, politics, making money, eating, smoking ... the list goes on and on and on and on and on. Indeed, we might even put blogging on the list! They all relate to feeling inadequate to the challenges of the world and the sense that one either needs to "escape" for a while or that one needs some "leg up" to cope (e.g., a "fortifier," "Dutch courage"). Other things (stressors, cares, anxieties) are either blocked out while one is in the chosen zone (where obliviousness is obtained), or one uses the behavior to feel up to the challanges of "the real world". So, the only real objection I have to referring to alcoholism as a disease is that this tends to imply that alcoholism has a cause or origin different from workaholism, philandering, smoking, etc..., all of which are recognized as behavioral and thus ones for which we must each be accountable. Sure, alcoholism has got different facets (including chemical ones) and is especially tough to beat, but in the end, like all of the others on the list, it is a behavioral problem and has its origin in a far more generic tendency, the need to escape, feelings of inadequacy, etc. If more people understood this, the mystery would cease, and more of these deleterious behaviors would be able to be vanquished. We would therefore do better to acknowledge that we are all "carriers" of this disease and to treat those who have succumbed accordingly, with wisdom and compassion. |
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| JAV123 | Posted: 2006/3/2 1:42 Updated: 2006/3/2 2:48 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2006/2/27 From: Northern Michigan Posts: 38 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO In light of recent developments I find the below, which I found on the N.H. Diocese website before VGR's "consecration" to make more sense than when I first read it. I'm glad I copied it, the website has it "locked out", now.
The paragraph I am especially referring to is separated by several lines. Sorry about this late post. The following is taken from the biography of V. Gene Robinson on the New Hampshire Episcopal Diocese Website. To verify and to read his entire biography go to : www.nhepiscopal.org/BishopSearch/The_Rev_Canon_V_Gene_Robinson.htm#Biography What risk have you taken for the Gospel? Jesus Christ is no easy savior. While loving us unconditionally, He is always calling us into unknown territory, asking that we merely trust and journey with Him—as Abraham and Sarah did, venturing into an unknown land. As a 12 year old in a poor, rural congregation of the Disciples of Christ, I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Little did I know where that would lead: becoming an Episcopalian in college, saying "yes" to Christ's call to ordained ministry, and my first call to a parish in Ridgewood, New Jersey. Following Jesus Christ is never easy for long. Although I LOVED parish ministry, in 1975 God seemed to be asking my wife and me to leave that ministry and found a retreat center and summer youth camp, in southern New Hampshire, a foolish and risky idea in the eyes of many, but a clear calling for us. That ministry touched the lives and spirits of young and old alike for some 20 years. Ultimately, of course, Jesus Christ challenges us to take Him at His word, to accept the extravagance of His accepting love, to be the Child of God we were created to be, no matter the cost—in order to better serve Him. I answered God's call to acknowledge myself as a gay man. My wife and I, in order to KEEP (caps added, JAV) our wedding vow to "honor [each other] in the Name of God," made the decision to let each other go. We returned to church, where our marriage had begun, and in the context of the eucharist, released each other from our wedding vows, asked each other's forgiveness, cried a lot, pledged ourselves to the joint raising of our children, and shared the Body and Blood of Christ. Risking the loss of my children and the exercise of my ordained ministry in the Church was the biggest risk I've ever taken, but it left me with two unshakable things: my integrity and my God. I learned that there is no way to Easter except through Good Friday. The Living Christ walked with me on that journey: telling the truth about my life and daring me to be the person God created me to be—for God's service. It won the hearts of my daughters, whom I feared losing, and, later, the love of a wonderful partner, with whom I've made a home for the past 13 years. Now, God seems to be calling me to another journey. If the people of the Diocese of New Hampshire call me as well to the ministry of the episcopate, I will embrace it with joy and excitement, knowing that the God who has called me before, will once again sustain and guide me. |
| PRISCA | Posted: 2006/3/2 2:00 Updated: 2006/3/2 2:00 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/8/3 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 269 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Am I right in believing that the poor man was neglected if not abused when young?
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| AngliGreek | Posted: 2006/3/2 22:00 Updated: 2006/3/2 22:00 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2005/2/22 From: Diocese of Albany, New York Posts: 18 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO Fascinating, that the NH Diocese has blocked the bio link you posted. I tried it, too, and although the page from which you quoted opened briefly, it immediately redirected to a "cleaned up" version of VGR's story, and did so every time I clicked the "back" button. Whom do they think they're fooling??!!!
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| JAV123 | Posted: 2006/3/3 0:42 Updated: 2006/3/3 0:42 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2006/2/27 From: Northern Michigan Posts: 38 |
Re: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO AngliGreek : Perhaps themselves. So much for the "truth" setting one free. I don't know much first hand about 12-step programs, but from what I have picked up over the years, being truthful is one of the first steps in recovery. Maybe the N.H. Diocese was concerned about the rehab center or individuals in VGR's group getting hold of the bio. ?
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