Exclusives : ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers
THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS
"You brood of vipers, (Pharisees) how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart." Mt. 12:34
Commentary
By David W. Virtue
By now, it must be apparent to orthodox evangelical and Anglo-Catholic parishes caught in revisionist dioceses, that their days are numbered.
Any which way they turn, they are being caught like deer in the headlights of professional shooters with high-powered rifles, picked off at the pleasure of an unbelieving bishop.
The revisionist bishop of Central New York inhibits a godly priest because the priest blows the whistle on a former pedophile priest of his parish. The young priest is subject to harassment, his financial records subpoenaed, and he is removed from his parish. Now he watches as his parish withers and slowly dies as people leave, and he is powerless to stop it.
The revisionist bishop of Connecticut conducts a lightning raid on an evangelical parish on trumped up charges that the man was taking an unlawful sabbatical, grabs his personal computer, locks the doors, hires guards to watch the church, and forces a woman priest on the parish against the will of the vestry. Other orthodox parishes wait anxiously to see when the next shoe will drop.
The revisionist bishop of Central Pennsylvania rips an Anglo-Catholic parish apart telling them that they cannot be a Forward in Faith parish, even though that movement is recognized by the national church. He wants them to be open to other points of view, he says. The priest is forced out and the parish goes with him, another spear wound in the side of orthodoxy.
The revisionist bishop of Florida refuses to allow a group of godly priests to leave his diocese with their properties, because, for him, properties are more important than the gospel, and he believes he has the power, given him by the laying on of hands, to keep what is not his and never was his.
The revisionist bishop of Los Angeles trumpets nice words of inclusion and love, but when three parishes announce they are leaving for an orthodox jurisdiction he litigates and litigates and litigates against them for their properties even though the courts have made it clear that he has no right to them.
The revisionist Bishop of Pennsylvania demands obedience from a number of orthodox priests even though he himself cannot affirm basic doctrines of the faith, writes a Visigoth rite to marry any sexual Heinz variety that turns up to his front door and says Jesus was a sinner who forgave himself.
The revisionist bishop of Massachusetts, a man driven by a pathological need to affirm sodomy, holds a "trial" against an orthodox priest based on trumped up charges by a woman 30 years earlier and the priest is forced out and the parish taken over. The bishop turns up to a House of Bishops meeting with a handsome young man described by the Presiding Bishop as his "companion".
The revisionist Bishop of Lexington inhibits four clergy in his diocese and sent inhibition letters to each telling them that they will be deposed unless they stop ministering without his approval. A fifth priest faces possible restrictions on his ministry. "It appears he wants to stifle orthodoxy in Lexington," said the Rev. David Brannen the former candidate for rector of St. John's in Versailles, now rector of St. Andrew's Anglican Church in Versailles. Of course he does.
And the revisionist Bishop of West Tennessee deposes three priests in a document stating that each of these three priests are "deprived of the right to exercise the gifts of spiritual authority conferred in Ordination, for reasons of Abandonment of the Communion of This church by a Priest."
Now who has abandoned communion? These priests and hundreds like them or the bishops who no longer believe in the authority of Scripture and believe canons trump Scripture and more.
The last two remaining orthodox seminaries in The Episcopal Church are having a hard time placing graduates in liberal dioceses. Revisionist bishops don't want gospel driven priests in their dioceses because they have a gospel that is transformative not inclusive and these bishops find that personally offensive, so a No Trespassing sign is put outside the doors of diocesan house, "Evangelicals and Anglo-Catholics Not Wanted".
An ad hoc group of about 20 bishops, diocesan chancellors and lawyers met in Puerto Rico to review recent legal disputes over property in several dioceses and discussed "key issues" that might arise during future legal action during a Dec. 8-9 meeting in Chicago.
INTERPRETATION: If they leave sue them and get the National Church to help defray the legal costs.
Then there are the disputes in Kansas, Missouri and Los Angeles involving parishes attempting to leave a diocese with their property, but a possible future concern is that an entire diocese will in some way seek to alter its existing legal relationship within the Episcopal Church and flee as well.
And revisionist bishops do not simply want to destroy orthodoxy in their dioceses, they want to populate pulpits with openly gay and lesbian priests. Just ask the Bishop of Western New York. His Deployment officer is gay and he has a free hand to say yea or nay to whomever applies for a post in his diocese.
And then was the former Bishop of Washington who, during his seven year reign never allowed one, straight white male to function as a priest in his diocese. Of course if you were gay, lesbian and a person of color and wanted to switch hit, the welcome mat was out for you.
And is there one good thing that one could say about the Dioceses of Newark or Long Island, where, in the latter diocese, the New York Times questions the sexual health of the bishop and raises the issue, "Does he have AIDS?"
The Long Island bishop's pathological hatred of orthodoxy is only matched by his love for a homosexual priest who "married" his Brazilian lover which made PENTHOUSE magazine with a "Boys from Brazil" headline. After being defrocked the bishop then sought to have the priest reinstated.
And the history of venality goes on and on. And you wonder why Nigerian Archbishop Peter Akinola trusts Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold not one whit and wants nothing to do with the Episcopal Church; in fact he views homosexuality as such an abomination that he has set up his own Nigerian Church (CANA) right inside the U.S. alongside the ECUSA.
The Episcopal Church has bred a generation of viperous bishops who are out to destroy the very priests who have a gospel and could make their dioceses grow, and in the process end up only destroying themselves.
"You brood of vipers, (Pharisees) how can you, being evil, speak what is good? said Jesus. The truth is they can't. The god of this world has blinded their eyes, they are empty men and women with no gospel to proclaim and they are killing the Episcopal Church.
END
The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.
| Poster | Thread |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/19 22:11 Updated: 2005/12/19 22:14 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
 Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERSThe Gaystapo has now claimed for itself the corpse of ECUSA. It's rotting and maggot-infested, but it's the hell theirs.
Essodalori |
| warmac9999 | Posted: 2005/12/19 22:26 Updated: 2005/12/19 22:26 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS Disease and decline are the way of the ECUSA. Far better your children never go to church than go to such a debased organization.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/19 22:32 Updated: 2005/12/19 22:32 |
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God vs. Man Those who insist on, or even expect a perfect church, are looking in the wrong direction. Only God is good, only God is perfect. Humankind, even those in churches are fallable, and so then are the churches. The people of God will live full lives in God everywhere and anywhere. And those who manage the tight borders of churches will always be angry and disappointed.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/19 22:37 Updated: 2005/12/19 22:37 |
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Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS "Those who insist on, or even expect a perfect church, are looking in the wrong direction. Only God is good, only God is perfect. Humankind, even those in churches are fallable, and so then are the churches. The people of God will live full lives in God everywhere and anywhere. And those who manage the tight borders of churches will always be angry and disappointed."
********* Dear Fr_Steve, Therefore are what point do we as humans say that something that society does is right or wrong? By whose code of conduct do we operate on? Mans? God Bless BHTech |
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| Cennydd | Posted: 2005/12/19 22:45 Updated: 2005/12/19 23:04 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS Has anyone besides me ever wondered why it is that these revisionist heretical bishops have NEVER written anything on this blog site defending themselves and their actions? Instead, they let their shills do the job for them! Never ONCE have I ever seen any of them even attempt to explain why they've done what they have done! NEVER!
These bishops rule their dioceses with an iron fist, and God help ANYONE who opposes them! And they have the unmitigated GALL to call us faithful Anglicans "schismatics?" They know damned good and well that it is THEY and their LBGTQ friends, whom they are IN BED with, who have caused this schism! How on Earth can they continue to deny it, when an overwhelming majority of the Anglican Communion.....the rest of orthodox Christianity notwithstanding.....have so roundly condemned what they have done? How much longer, o Lord, must we endure their heresy and apostasy? God, have mercy on me for saying it is time that we got RID of these heretics! And the sooner the better!  |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/19 22:51 Updated: 2005/12/19 22:51 |
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Re: God vs. Man Fr. Steve:
How do we know when we have sinned against God? Don |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/19 22:53 Updated: 2005/12/19 22:53 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS "Has anyone besides me ever wondered why it is that these revisionist heretical bishops have NEVER written anything on this blog site defending themselves and their actions?"
--- It would, Cennydd, be a badge of great Christian honor to get a 'rebuke' from an ECUSA 'bishop.' With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/19 22:53 Updated: 2005/12/19 22:53 |
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Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS Relax Cennydd
 .In due course the Lord will select his sheep from the goats. Vengance is mine said the Lord. God Bless BHTech |
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| Traktaryan | Posted: 2005/12/19 23:05 Updated: 2005/12/19 23:05 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/7/16 From: Posts: 710 |
Re: God vs. Man Poster: Gander Posted: 2005/12/19 22:51:31
Fr. Steve: How do we know when we have sinned against God? Don ============ Don, According to progressives, the very idea of sin is outdated. But if you insist, to a progressive, we "sin" against God when we believe the Bible to be God's revealed Word and accept it as authoritative over our lives, instead of collection of nice stories and fables; we "sin" against God when we exclude GLBTs; we "sin" against God when we say there is such a thing as sin; we sin against God when we say that Jesus is the only Son of God and the only Savior of humanity; we "sin" against God if we show signs of being traditional or orthodox; we "sin" against God when we fail to affirm our sexuality, whatever that may be; and we "sin" against God when we deny ourselves in any way and fail to empower ourselves and fulfill ourselves and enlighten ourselves and generally worship Self above all else. Sound about right, Steve? |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2005/12/19 23:12 Updated: 2005/12/19 23:14 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS Okay, then.....here's my challenge to those heretical yahoos: Any of you revisionist heretics wanna try to rebuke ME? C'mon.....let's "get it on!" Step up to the plate, fellas and gals.....I'm ready for ya! I've been rebuked by others far better than you!
No?,.....what's the matter? Are you chicken?     |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 0:26 Updated: 2005/12/20 0:26 |
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Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS BHTech,
You asked _steve "by whose code of conduct do we operate on? Man's? Since _steve always calls upon VOL's TOS, we should assume he bases his conduct on man's. Oh, we should remember he called Esso a little man - HARRRUMPPPHHHH!!!!!!! Xrists Blessings, Giovanni |
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| digby | Posted: 2005/12/20 0:29 Updated: 2005/12/20 0:29 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2005/11/4 From: Posts: 6 |
Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS Victory is assured,
"In which words three things are to be noted: First, that Christ will have a Church in this world. Secondly, that the same Church should mightily be impugned, not only by the world, but also by the uttermost strength and powers of all hell. And, thirdly, that the same Church, notwithstanding the uttermost of the devil and all his malice, should continue."Foxe's Book of Martyrs. Antinomianism is the belief that Christians are liberated from the observance of moral laws when God's grace is active.It has come a full circle. |
| digby | Posted: 2005/12/20 0:32 Updated: 2005/12/20 0:32 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/11/4 From: Posts: 6 |
Re: God vs. Man Fr. Steve:
How do we know when we have sinned against God? Don I am sure that you are being sarcastic here,Don. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 0:36 Updated: 2005/12/20 0:36 |
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Re: God vs. Man Traktaryan,
I believe we know when we have sinned against God, since he will give us over to reprobate behaviour, whether it's homo/lesbo carnal relations or foul behaviour towards our neighbor - God will hand us over to Satan's minions for punishment. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 0:38 Updated: 2005/12/20 0:38 |
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Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS Dear Giovanni,
Let us give Fr_Steve's his own words on this matter. You are right however, in that he did call Esso names that were not appropiate. We are privilidged to debate, rebuke and comment about stories posted by DV and to learn from one another, but not to call each names. God Bless BHTech |
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| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/12/20 1:16 Updated: 2005/12/20 1:16 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS After blessing divorce and remarriage; after blessing heterosexual coohabitation; after blessing homosexual relations; after foisting gay marriage;
What is left but necrophilia? |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/12/20 1:21 Updated: 2005/12/20 1:21 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: God vs. Man And the corrolary to that is this: when we are reprobate, unrepentant sinners, we want to affirm ourselves with the companionship of other sinners, commiseration or "misery lvoes company".
Stevil &co have done truly filthy acts of bestial behavior; they require an unending stream of affirmation to blot from their conscience the nightmare visions of hellfire and damnation that no doubt haunt them all at three o'clock in the morning... |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 1:25 Updated: 2005/12/20 1:25 |
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Re: God vs. Man Sarcastic? No, absolutely not. I repent of all appearances of sarcasm here. It is a question whose answer is eternally significant.
Actually, even among conservatives I often get an incorrect response. Just to hint: the answer has absolutely nothing to do with us or how we feel. I open the question to anyone. Don |
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| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/12/20 1:26 Updated: 2005/12/20 1:26 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS Cennydd, about 18 mos ago, I met at length with an J'ECUSA bishop who was once orthodox but became an oppresive revisionist. I mentioned VOL and he went off on a tirade unfit for publication in a family journal. He also unleashed a tirade against me for an extended period. Thankfully, I am made of sterner stuff than your basic J'ECUSA wuss-parishioner...
Bottom line: this guy, at least, was all mouth behind closed doors, but doing so in public would challenge his manhood. |
| JimMcNeely | Posted: 2005/12/20 1:27 Updated: 2005/12/20 1:27 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/4/7 From: Posts: 699 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers David articulates a clear and poignant picture of what ECUSA is and does to all Christians in their organization. Their hatred and intolerance of orthodox and faithful clergy, congregations, and causes is available for all to see.
This is why I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why there are any Christians in ECUSA who want to stay around for the Loon Left's "Final Solution." -Jim+ |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 1:39 Updated: 2005/12/20 1:39 |
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Re: God vs. Man Fr. Steve and I agree on the following:
That sin is the "Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God." My current question to Steve is "How do we know what the will of God is?" or in another form: "How do we know when we have sinned against God?" I assume that Steve can make the logical step between "knowing the will of God" and knowing that we sin by acting against God's will. I have no desire to see Father Steve separated from God eternally. God's desire is to separate Steve's sins from him eternally. Only one of the above can occur. It is totally up to Steve. Don |
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| Fiona | Posted: 2005/12/20 3:30 Updated: 2005/12/20 3:30 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/1/18 From: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 1071 |
Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS www.blueskyrealtyonline.com
BHTech: Not to side with Fr Steve, but just be aware that not all the goats are in ECUSA. You will find both goats and wolves too in all churches that mankind has made. Matthew 10:14-16: “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city. Behold, I sent you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” Dusting off my feet-- Fiona |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 3:53 Updated: 2005/12/20 3:53 |
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Re: THE HOUSE OF BISHOPS: A GENERATION OF VIPERS Dear Fiona
I know you are not siding with Fr_Steve, but at the same time, I'm unclear as to the meaning of your comment. Should I have said sheep from the wolves? I think it should be obvious that it takes all kinds to make this world, and people with personal agendas are be expected in all walks of life. You can PM if you feel that I am in error or if I am missing something. God Bless BHtech |
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| Carson | Posted: 2005/12/20 4:29 Updated: 2005/12/20 4:29 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2005/8/30 From: Gainesville Texas Posts: 31 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers "This is why I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why there are any Christians in ECUSA who want to stay around for the Loon Left's "Final Solution.""
Ladies and gentlemen, please be tender. This is my first post. I recently attended the convention of the Fort Worth diocese, wherein Bishop Leo Jack Iker opened the proceedings with a speech that made clear if the ECUSA elects for apostasy and "walking away" at GC 2006, our diocese will not walk with ECUSA. There was a standing ovation. I'm in the fortunate position (Fr Steve would disagree) of being in a conservative parish (our priest says I'm first catholic, second Anglican and third Episcopal) in a conservative diocese. Should our parish depart from ECUSA now? No, I don't think so. We should wait for GC 2006, after which, if I'm not mistaken, our parish will depart with our diocese. It's all so sad, isn't it? The predominant church of the early USA and presidents, reduced to a sect of insignificance. God bless everyone. Grant, Texas |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2005/12/20 5:06 Updated: 2005/12/20 5:26 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Carson, welcome to VOL! You and I and many others like us are fortunate to be canonically resident in a Conservative parish and diocese! In my case, I am a member of St Alban's Mission in the Diocese of San Joaquin. Our Diocesan is the Rt Rev John-David Schofield....a good friend of Bishop Iker. Like you, we are remaining in ECUSA only for the present. Our actions will depend on what happens at General Convention next June. Personally, I don't think ECUSA will change course. They have shown no signs of doing so. In fact, it looks very much like they're digging in their heels more and more each month!
When more revisionist bishops inhibit priests and deacons for doing nothing more than speaking the Truth as found in Holy Scripture, when they attempt to steal personal and real property which doesn't belong to them in the name of the Episcopal Church under color of canon law, when they persecute faithful orthodox clergy....and soon, I have no doubt, faithful laity, it becomes more and more apparent that they will continue on the course they have chosen. They will "walk away" from the Anglican Communion. They have already, in my opinion, walked away from the Christian Faith! Bishop Schofield has said that ECUSA is leaving US, and we're not going ANYWHERE!   |
| warmac9999 | Posted: 2005/12/20 10:45 Updated: 2005/12/20 10:50 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers One of my greatest hopes is that every Episcopal church has a large and growing group of people who are willing to resist the direction of the ECUSA. These folks should make it clear that further revisionism will be unacceptable and that existing acts of revisionism must be reversed. Baring positive change, this group, if they still remain within the ECUSA, must now organize and plan to leave. Once GC2006 is in the books, they must leave and, where practical, take everything of value. Frankly, only about 10% of most congregations accept the revisionist garbage and spiritual pollution so a majority exists in the orthodox opposition.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 11:44 Updated: 2005/12/20 11:44 |
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Wishful Thinking Anyone of course is welcome to their opinion. And that is obviously fueled by your perspective and views. The true reality is that the neo-puritans are only 10% of the Episcopal church. The Episcopal Church is a democratically governed church, you remember, the majority rule kind of thing. But the neo-puritans have never been able to convince a majority of their fellow Episcopalians to believe as they do. Having failed to do so, they are now giving up and leaving.
================================ Poster: warmac9999 Posted: 2005/12/20 8:45:29 Frankly, only about 10% of most congregations accept the revisionist garbage and spiritual pollution so a majority exists in the orthodox opposition. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 11:50 Updated: 2005/12/20 11:57 |
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Re: God vs. Man Fr-Steve
Then you don't see any thing wrong in the revisionists going against the Articles of Religion that were established when the church was founded in 1790. Those Bishops and Priests that preach false doctrine need to be made excommunicate. |
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| Causidicus | Posted: 2005/12/20 13:23 Updated: 2005/12/20 13:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/3 From: Posts: 1095 |
Re: God vs. Man Marlin wrote: "Those Bishops and Priests that preach false doctrine need to be made excommunicate."
If Stoneridge is right (See his post under Griswold Agonistes), then having slandered the Holy Spirit they have already been excommunicate from that which matters most. They just don't know it. All the trappings, titles, clothes and parchment in the world can't save them now. Causidicus |
| Truthseekr | Posted: 2005/12/20 13:28 Updated: 2005/12/21 11:36 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/14 From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru ) Posts: 784 |
Re: God vs. Man Quote:
How do we know when we have sinned against God? Greeting to my brother in Christ Don, You opened the question up to all, So I would like to try, Let me know if I hose it up... How do we know when we have sinned against God? We read & understand His Holy Scriptures. Sins are well defined within Holy Scriptures. We try to avoid those sins as best humanely possible. When (not if) we are about to sin or have acted out and completed the sin physically, we feel the conviction of His Holy Spirit telling us that sin is damaging our spiritual relationship with GOD, and we must repent. Repentance thru Jesus Christ brings forgiveness, and back to peace with GOD. Un-repentance eventually sears the conscience, to the point that we do not feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit much, or at all. Un-repentance eventually allows the dark side access for oppression and deceiving activities. These include the ability to feel a false peace that is not of GOD, and to feel an unholy spiritual revelation that allows one to put one's personal feelings, personal sin choices, above the plain warnings in the WORD of GOD. (Caution: short term only!) Flirting with the dark side can lead to use of evil spiritual counterfeit gifts. This has, can, and will mislead many. This is why it is critical for all Christians to know how to test the spirits so the true Spiritual Gifts of his HOLY SPIRIT are used effectively, correctly, in good order, and used only to the glory of God the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ. Continued flirting with the evil side causes the sinful conscience to be so seared that it becomes difficult to recognize the truth or to recognize SIN when one sees it. Why? Because the Biblical roadmap to GOD has been abandoned. This leads to a continued lack of testing the spirits to discern the difference between the Holy Spirit of God and the unholy spirits of the devil. There is nothing in-between the two major combatants, except us human spirits, and the two sides are currently fighting over us humans. Both sides want our obedience... and our long term company. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, the God the Holy Spirit, wants us to be obedient and holy to Him, so He can do good for us and we can worship him forever, and ever, and ever. The god Satan wants obedience which is biblically defined as sin. He wants it because he wants to steal, destroy, and kill that which the Real God loves and created. The false god wants to desecrate the image of the real GOD in any way possible, and we humans are created the image of GOD. The false god wants company to rule and torment in hell forever after the final judgment. Human beings should not want to be in that selected group banished forever with the false god Satan and his demonic forces. That is why our study and knowledge of Holy Scripture is critical for our own well being. Wisdom and knowledge are pearls to cherish and worth pursuing. In the engineering community, I often heard: “If you think knowledge is expensive, try ignorance…” Many do not know or ignore that any spirit that denies "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" or denies that "Jesus Christ is LORD" is specifically defined in the bible as the "spirit of the anti-christ"... So, sin leads to people crawling into bed, spiritually, with the spirit of the anti-christ... This leads to their crawling into bed, physically, to perform un-holy sexual activities which are desecrations of those created images of God. Spirits, and the people those spirits manifest within, that bring a different Jesus Christ or a different gospel, are flirting with sin and the risk of a fate worse than death... The final way we will know if we have sinned against GOD is which "Judgment Seat" we show up at. If we are called first to the "Judgment Seat of Christ Jesus", where Christians are judged for their actions and works (gold, silver, and straw) there will be both rewards and corrections handed out at this judgment wherein our works, or lack of works, will be extremely important. Our salvation is not based on those works, but our reward will be based on those works and actions. Then on eventually to the Great White Throne Judgment. If we show up “first” at the "Great White Throne Judgment" (& have bypassed the Judgment Seat of Christ Jesus) then all is lost. It means we have blasphemed the Holy Spirit of God and ignored His salvation plan and sacrifice. It will be a moment of realization where the earthly lack of "FEAR OF GOD" has led to and what it really means. A realization of the truth, and of sin, and of one’s lack of being grafted into the true vine... It will be the start of the worst curse possible wherein all hope, happiness, and love is lost forever - gone...and gone... and gone So, beloved children of God choose life thru Jesus Christ, Do not sin, do not choose death. Humbly yours in Christ Jesus Truthseekr |
| mgooch | Posted: 2005/12/20 13:41 Updated: 2005/12/20 13:54 |
Quite a regular  Joined: 2004/1/5 From: Posts: 68 |
Re: God vs. Man Marlin:
I, as well as others, will strongly recommend that you not waste bandwidth and attempt to reason with _Steve. He tries to show his intelligence by issuing all kinds of opinions as to what the orthodox do and what they think. Yet when _Steve is asked a simple question that he chooses not to answer, he "dummys up." For the record, here's the question that he refuses to answer: "Would you support or reject the EcUSA if it allowed those that practice bestiality or polyamory to serve as priests and bishops in the church?" It's amazing that this question can be answered by all on VOL with the exception of _Steve. His lack of intelligence is obvious when he fumbles with such a simple question, and finds it impossible to verbalize his opinion (whatever it may be.) You may want to limit your debates with other revisionists whose IQs are double digit. With the love of Christ to all, mgooch |
| frcochran | Posted: 2005/12/20 14:08 Updated: 2005/12/20 14:08 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: God vs. Man mgooch,
Maybe your question is not being answered because it has been answered in previous posts, at least half of your question. I don't recall ever reading anything supporting bestiality; however, there is nothing to suggest to me that such a practice would be particularly objectionable. I believe the catch phrace is "radical inclusivity" or "radical acceptance." You know, like dude the ecusa is rad. And, yes, with regards to polyamory, that has been defended on other threads. You are wasting your time responding to that guy. He enjoys calling attention to himself, but as you have obviously learnded, he can't debate. That is, unless you call evasion, lying, and character assasination legitimate tools in contributing to the discussion. Johh+ |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2005/12/20 14:11 Updated: 2005/12/20 14:11 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Speaking of "Fr_Steve," I am beginning to think that 1: He is not a seminary graduate, or 2: He is not a real priest, or 3: He is gay, or 4: He is a worker priest along the same lines as Father Pannitti. He probably IS a priest. Having said that, if he IS a priest, did he graduate from a seminary, and if so, which one? If not, which bishop did he study under?
For whatever reasons, he refuses to answer my question as to which seminary he graduated from, if in fact he did attend. Every priest I have ever known has not hesitated to say which seminary he graduated from! Is Steve hiding something? I wonder! |
| DnNeal | Posted: 2005/12/20 14:20 Updated: 2005/12/20 14:20 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Welcome, Carson!
You and Cennyd are very fortunate and I pray for the expansion of your Dioceses. Before I left my revisionism-headed church (the former priest is now the revisionist bishop of West Tennessee) an older woman tried to talk me out of it. She was the retired archivist for the national church. Her statement to me was very similar to _Steve's. She said, "The church has always never been perfect. It has always had homosexuals in it." I replied, "Yes, but never has the church supported it." She had to agree on that being a good church historian. _Steve wants to turn that around hence the statement above. No surprise to any of us. And we must tell you that he will never address a single one of our points as you'll discover. He will state his opinion and perhaps scoff at us but never address the issues. Many of us have tried to engage him in logiacl debate to no avail. I too would love for one of the revisionist bishops to engage us in dialogue. They have no power here (or really anywhere even though they think they do) and maybe that is why we don't hear from them. I won't hold my breath. Welcome again, Neal |
| mgooch | Posted: 2005/12/20 14:25 Updated: 2005/12/20 14:25 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2004/1/5 From: Posts: 68 |
Re: God vs. Man Fr John:
Thanks for your post. Am I reading your post correctly???? Did you say that you have no objections to bestiality???? Also, since I don't recall anything posted defending polyamory, for my edification would you paraphrase the defense???? With the love of Christ to all, mgooch |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 14:34 Updated: 2005/12/20 14:34 |
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Re: God vs. Man Hello Marlin;
You may misunderstand my church. I am a Christian of the Episcopal variety, and my church was started by a Jewish carpenter more than 2000 years ago. Holiday blessings to you. ========================== Poster: Marlin Posted: 2005/12/20 9:50:29 Fr-Steve Then you don't see any thing wrong in the revisionists going against the Articles of Religion that were established when the church was founded in 1790. Those Bishops and Priests that preach false doctrine need to be made excommunicate. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 14:38 Updated: 2005/12/20 14:38 |
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Re: God vs. Man simple minds with simple questions seeking simple answers. childish minds with childish questions seeking childish answers. sorry I won't stoop to play.
================================ Poster: mgooch Posted: 2005/12/20 11:41:03 Marlin: For the record, here's the question that he refuses to answer: "Would you support or reject the EcUSA if it allowed those that practice bestiality or polyamory to serve as priests and bishops in the church?" mgooch |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 14:40 Updated: 2005/12/20 14:40 |
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Re: God vs. Man Holiday greetings, Brother John, and welcome back from your self imposed exile.
Steve+ ============================== Poster: frcochran Posted: 2005/12/20 12:08:55 mgooch, Maybe your question is not being answered <blah, blah, blah, blah> Johh+ |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 14:48 Updated: 2005/12/20 14:48 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers I'm hiding from fascist radical extremists. Look at the obscenity poured out by Esso. And you think I want slobbering lunatics to know where me and my family are? No way.
========================= Poster: Cennydd Posted: 2005/12/20 12:11:31 Speaking of "Fr_Steve," I am beginning to think FS: Well, we're still waiting for the evidence of that>>> |
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| Traktaryan | Posted: 2005/12/20 15:05 Updated: 2005/12/20 15:05 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/16 From: Posts: 710 |
Re: Wishful Thinking Poster: Fr_Steve Posted: 2005/12/20 11:44:46
The Episcopal Church is a democratically governed church, you remember, the majority rule kind of thing. ============ "Just simply to say that it goes against tradition and the teaching of the church and scripture does not necessarily make it wrong. We worship a living God, and that living God leads us into truth." V. Gene Robinson, bishop of New Hampshire So Steve, when you and Gene stand before God, you can tell Him that even though what you've done was against the teaching of Scripture you voted it in! And what do you suppose He will say? Do you suppose that because ECUSA voted to oppose God, God will have to admit defeat? Do you suppose that God is obligated to honor and bless what ECUSA has voted in? |
| frcochran | Posted: 2005/12/20 15:20 Updated: 2005/12/20 15:20 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: God vs. Man mgooch,
I apologize if I was not clear. I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, and a marriage lasts until one of the spouses becomes deceased (with the exceptions being so few and irregular that I don't even bring them up). I believe that anything else is a concept of marriage unknown to Christianity. John+ |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 15:28 Updated: 2005/12/20 15:28 |
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Re: God vs. Man Brother Truthseekr:
I am often misunderstood because I use too few words. You, on the other hand, might be misunderstood because......well, for a different reason.  I don't know that you have said anything in error. Your words are full of will to please Him who is the Author of Life. But I have a question for you.... First, when Man entered into his corruption (Adam's sin), one of the many things that were corrupted was man's conscience. I, in times past, have felt guilty about following God's expressed will, and at other times I have felt guiltless while breaking God's law. We need healing and guidance of our consciences. You infer as much and I trust that you agree. When I read your advise in this area (7th Pgh), I read that I am to test the spirits by the Holy Spirit (my preci'). If this is what you are saying then there is a bit of a logical disconnect as we can not test a thing with itself - one checks the ambient temperature with a thermometer, not with the air. You infer the correct answer several times but never come out and say it. So my question is: Because our consciences are flawed and because we need to KNOW whether the Holy Spirit, as opposed to SOME spirit, is leading us to or away from an action or idea, with what has God given us to test these things? This is the one most salient question of the christian faith. Don |
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| frcochran | Posted: 2005/12/20 15:29 Updated: 2005/12/20 15:38 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: Wishful Thinking Trak,
You know that they wrote the Bible, and therefore they can change it. At least that is according to Bp. Bennison. And, you are correct that they vote for themselves their own religion. The next thing you know they will be reopening the gates of Ijtihad. For more on this subject try a google search or http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/ijtihad/1.htm for more information. John+ |
| mgooch | Posted: 2005/12/20 15:37 Updated: 2005/12/20 15:37 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2004/1/5 From: Posts: 68 |
Re: God vs. Man WOW!!! We seemed to have hit a nerve, haven't we _Steve!!!!
Could I assume that you are having difficulty in answering the "question" because you know the logical conclusion??? HMMMM......... Let me help you: If you answer that you reject the notion, then you realize that we will accuse you of hypocracy. <sarcasm on> I'm sure you're aware that they're born that way and they can't help it.<sarcasm off> If you answer that you accept the notion, you realize that we will ask you for some scriptural support. Don't bother looking, the Bible doesn't support such activities. Also, secular society has laws against "threesome" marriages and having sex with animals. But, the EcUSA allows for any interpretation of the Bible that seems to fit at the particular moment. I'd love to hear your twist on this one. Should I wait for a post? I would really like to debate you on the subject, but I feel that you are less than a fair match. Just one final question (I'm sure that no answer will be forthcoming), if beastility practicing clergy are acceptable in your religion, does that change the meaning of how the priests of your church view their flock??? With the love of Christ to all, mgooch |
| mgooch | Posted: 2005/12/20 15:44 Updated: 2005/12/20 15:44 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2004/1/5 From: Posts: 68 |
Re: God vs. Man Fr. John:
Thanks for clearing up the matter with your post. I'm pleased to say that I share your views on the subject of Christian marriage, as ordained by Christ in His Holy Word. With the love of Christ to all, mgooch |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 15:49 Updated: 2005/12/20 15:49 |
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Majority Rule??? No thanks "Poster: Fr_Steve Posted: 2005/12/20 11:44:46
[The Episcopal Church is a democratically governed church, you remember, the majority rule kind of thing."] Sounds more like a union or Elks Lodge than a church. "Majority Rule" huh .. and Austria voted "majority rule" for the Anchluß. Friends, its becoming more and more clear by the day. In the liberals' minds, they've "won." To them the church is simply another societal organization (like the universities, schools, civic boards) that they can conquer and reshape in their own image. Why does "fr" Steve get so "pissy" each time he hears of people leaving? He is either: 1 - Wanting to gloat and rub the orthodoxs' proverbial noses in it (betraying worldly rather than spiritual motivation) 2 - Bitter because though his "cause" has achieved victory, its an empty victory (literally i.e. empty churches) 3 - Its of general evil origin, with the goal of just provoking and poisoning people trying to move away from apostasy. A sure way to hurt good and faithful renewal is to drag it back into the muck it is trying to leave behind. There is a fine line between standing against apostasy, and letting the zeal consume you. Me thinks the good "fr" Steve knows just how to exploit it. Don't walk out onto his battlefield - thats what he wants. That said, this group of ECUSA "bishops" makes the 1st century Sanhedran look like a ladies bridge club. |
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| Festivus | Posted: 2005/12/20 15:57 Updated: 2005/12/20 15:57 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/12/2 From: Earth Posts: 240 |
Re: Wishful Thinking The Episcopal Church is NOT democratic. The majority does not rule. Rather we are a representative-provincial form of a governed church structure. If we were a democracy, then every person would have a ballot for diocesean and general convention. This is very important as, just as the case of an uniformed electorate in the US, the church can (and does) function in the same way. Despite the basic ignorance of scripture, I would argue that IF ECUSA had every parish vote on the 'blessing' of homosexual unions and it being binding upon them all, the outcome would be different than the direction the national church is moving.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 16:00 Updated: 2005/12/20 16:00 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Ah yes, more invective against Esso - and that coming from a ?priest?
Symptomatic of one who got his theological training from www.spiritualhumanism.org Or, was it www.churchofreality.org |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 16:03 Updated: 2005/12/20 16:03 |
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Re: Majority Rule??? No thanks Bravo, amfreborg.
"ECUSA bishops makes 1st century Sanhedrin look like a ladies bridge club." Even Monty python couldn't make this up... |
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| frcochran | Posted: 2005/12/20 16:34 Updated: 2005/12/20 16:34 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: Majority Rule??? No thanks Those glorious 60s (sarcasm) have come home to roost, and now we have the theology of those cultural icons of days gone by. Lenny Bruce, Barbara Streisand, John Lennon, David Crosby, and a host of drug addicts that knew so much they are now in positions of power, ie. the ECUSA HOB. If we all just put flowers in our hair, flash the peace sign, and sing "All we are saying, is give peace a chance." Then all will be just fine.
In the words of that other brilliant philosopher Timothy Leary, "Turn on, tune in, and drop out." The new Gospel of ECUSA. John+ |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2005/12/20 16:41 Updated: 2005/12/20 16:41 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Giovanni33, I see that "Fr_Steve" STILL dodges my questions. He questions my ability to "think." Yes, Stevie, I DO think.....and very well, thank you very much! I at least possess a college education. Giovanni, dealing with this pygmy troll in priest's garb is an absolute waste of our energies. He is one of those poor deluded revisionist souls who will go down with the ship when the plug is pulled next June. And who will do the pulling? Their very own bishops and deputies!
This yahoo is no Christian....though he claims to be. Instead, he is beginning to sound like a Secular Humanist in sheep's clothing!   |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2005/12/20 17:04 Updated: 2005/12/20 17:04 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Fr_Steve, which "radical fascist extremists" are you referring to, may I be so bold as to inquire? Why do you think you have reason to fear them? No one wants any harm to come to you or your family! We are merely asking you some basic questions which we believe are germaine to the subject at hand! If you are afraid that this could be used against you, you can put those fears to rest! Assuming that you are a validly ordained priest of the Church, you shouldn't mind stating the name of your seminary or the alternate source of your theological training. Most of the priests I know don't mind sharing this information with their parishioners.....so why should you?
Merry Christmas! |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 17:09 Updated: 2005/12/20 17:10 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Cenny,
I hear ya - he complains about fascists - he wouldn't know one if it slapped him in the face... Hey, I'm beginning to hear that great SUCKING sound... Imagine - the big drain pipe - the valve is opened - a great whirlpool appears - LOOK, there's steve, grizzinator, spong, sauls, bennison and the rest of j'ecusa caught in the tidal forces - SLLLUUURRRPPP -they're gone!!! Maybe a more apt descriptor - a blackhole - so powerful not even light escapes it - once j'ecusa goes past the *event horizon* the tidal forces pull it apart like so much saltwater taffy - even the subatomic particles are torn apart... |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 17:16 Updated: 2005/12/20 17:16 |
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Re: Majority Rule??? No thanks Frcochran,
Yeah, we even had Follywood's finest at the Lit-de-Parade of *Tookie* Williams -- toot, toot, tookie goodbye - Not a single care for the murdered victims... Must be all the *fairy dust* they're inhaling at their Estate Parties. Giovanni |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 17:16 Updated: 2005/12/20 17:27 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers For everyone who wants an answer to the questions posed to Fr_Steve, just type "Father Jake Stops the World" in your search engine and read to your hearts' content. Fr_Steve has previously endorsed Father Jake's site on VOL and what Fr_Steve "thinks" is all there, since the site is a vainglorious monument to someone who, "coincidentally", thinks exactly the same way as Fr_Steve! Visit Father Jake's site once, read as much of it as you can stomach, and you will be freed from any remaining mystery involving Fr_Steve's innermost "thoughts" and motives.
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/20 18:10 Updated: 2005/12/20 18:13 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers "Look at the obscenity poured out by Esso."
--- Which obscenity would it be that you're talking about, and which I've mentioned, Steve? 1) ECUSA's promotion of and love affair with homoanalfecal sodomy and men's rectums? 2) ECUSA's promotion and love affair with abortion? 3) ECUSA's rejection of Scripture, Tradition and common sense? 4) ECUSA's treatment of true Christians? 5) ECUSA's fascist tactics and theft of churches? 6) Louie Crew's homoporno poetry? 7) Vickie Gene's abandonment of his family? 8) Vicke Gene's, Spong's et als, apostasy? 9) ECUSA's teaching children garbage? 10) ECUSA's rejection of Christ? Which one? Which one? THEY'RE ALL OBSCENE. Essodalori |
| dvirtue | Posted: 2005/12/20 18:31 Updated: 2005/12/20 18:31 |
Webmaster  Joined: 2004/1/2 From: Posts: 175 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers CORRECTION AND MEA CULPA.
It was NOT the Bishop of Tennessee but the Bishop of West Tennessee that should have been noted. I have aplogized to Bishop Herlong and will make a note of it in my next digest. Please accept my deepest apologoes for this error. David W. Virtue D.D. |
| Causidicus | Posted: 2005/12/20 18:57 Updated: 2005/12/20 18:57 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/3 From: Posts: 1095 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Hello Esso!
He can't answer you. As you can see from his last reply ("I'm hiding from fascist radical extremists.") that he is busy spending advent preparing the fortified bunker of his mind against attack. Truthfully: He needs treatment. Sadly, Causidicus |
| warmac9999 | Posted: 2005/12/20 20:15 Updated: 2005/12/20 20:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Christianity has a set of moral and spiritual laws that have guided the rise of Western civilization. When those biblical laws are replaced by modern legislated law, then there is no reason for religion at all if the church is simply going to follow whatever modernity accepts. The posts of the revisionists on this site are so bent on whatever is the next wave of legislated political correctness that they have forgotten what got us all to this place of success - Jesus Christ.
I doubt that anyone is happy about the current state of peculiar affairs (pun intended) in the ECUSA and the probable impact that state has on the future. There is simply incontrovertible evidence that revisionism has caused the decline and that revisionism will continue its errant ways until the church is no more. |
| warmac9999 | Posted: 2005/12/20 20:27 Updated: 2005/12/20 20:36 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers To correct Fr Steve: Bishop Bane, the about to retire Bishop of Southern Virginia, specifically stated that the church was not a democracy. This statement was made in front of about 200 to 300 Episcopalians during a multi-church meeting just after GC2003. The implication of his comment is clear - the clergy will do what it wants to do and the laity better well accept it or leave. (As a matter of fact that is almost exactly what he said.) As most of us note here, there are a lot of departures and more to come.
I would also point out that Bishop Bane is retiring under a financial cloud - some of which was caused by a 25% drop in giving after GC2003 but also because of accounting confusion and mismanagement. After watching Bane operate, I came to the conclusion that he was a "country club" bishop with no moral convictions or courage. A secular fence sitter just waiting to jump to whichever side was most expedient. The more interesting question is just who will the revisionists try to shove down the throats of this very conservative diocese. Based on what I am hearing, anymore of this and an open rebellion will split the diocese completely. |
| danhaszard | Posted: 2005/12/20 21:41 Updated: 2005/12/20 21:41 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2005/9/20 From: Bangor Maine USA Posts: 11 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Regarding; clergy and church abuse in faith based organizations.
Much exposure has been published about pedophile priest in the Catholic church. Clergy sexual abuse is also covered-up in the "other" religions. Sexual abuse is rampant in the Jehovah's Witnesses due to an organizational policy of requiring "two witnesses" to the crime of child rape. This fosters a code of silence and a "pedophile's paradise" in the Jehovah's Witnesses. Learn more at our child advocacy page; www.silentlambs.org |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 22:26 Updated: 2005/12/20 22:28 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers [homoanalfecal sodomy and men's rectums, abortion, rejection of Scriptural authority and Holy Tradition, homoporno poetry a'la ECUSA's #1 layman, abandonment of family to pursue selfish sexual impulses]
Dear Esso -- These aren't "obscenities" to ECUSA ... no, no, no ... these are diverse truths to which we are called to graciously converse. In fact, wouldn't surprise me if at GC2006 the itty bitty liturgy committee commissions an offical icon set for all ECUSA churches - I can see it now, Byzantine style paintings of: - Bennison with a dildo in one hand and a book (Visigoth rite) in the other - A young woman in a NOW sweatshirt, wrapped in an ECUSA flag holding a uterine vacuum ... and for ECUSA's newest feast day "Triumph over the Fundies" - Mohammed hugging Buddha while stomping on a Bible C'mon "fr" Steve, don't be shy - be PROUD of how ECUSA witnesses into the world |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/20 22:42 Updated: 2005/12/20 22:44 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers "C'mon "fr" Steve, don't be shy - be PROUD of how ECUSA witnesses into the world"
--- You hit a big nail on the head, amfreborg. These depraved people go around celebrating their sins and degeneracies to each other, and tell each other they're 'proud' about such, but deep down their consciences bother them - greatly. The more their consciences bother them, the more they have to make war with and abuse people who try to live Godly and holy lives - and to do right by children. It's no surprise, for instance, that homosexuals have a much higher incidence of alcoholism, disease, panic disorder, violence, drunk driving, molestation of teenagers, psychological disturbance, than do normal people. They are fighting against their own souls, their own consciences, their own bodies, and God. It's always, always bad to pick a fight with God. They need to come over to the Christ-side. God can save anyone from his/her sins - but it takes a willing soul. Most homosexuals are unwilling. That unwillingness leads to soul death. And you're right about ECUSA. Taking your kid to an ECUSA 'church' is child abuse of the first order. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 23:16 Updated: 2005/12/20 23:16 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers [Taking your kid to an ECUSA 'church' is child abuse of the first order.]
Got that right. Perhaps the most important role we have has parents is as God's stewards to our children. What they experience now will stay with them for the rest of their lives; its a huge repsonsibility. The betrayal of the church (that is its people) by ECUSA's bishops and revisionist pastors/lay leaders is tragic. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/20 23:34 Updated: 2005/12/20 23:34 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers After a full year of watching you all, I have decided to jump into the fray. I must say, one of the most intriguing people on this blog is this guy Steve -- Fr. Steve, we assume, since his user name is Fr. Steve, but I am not so sure he's really a clergyman. I think he may be a complete phony on the payroll of ECUSA to plant disinformation. Hey, Steve, why don't you tell us a little about yourself? Why would you want to be a part of a conservative Anglican blog site? Nobody likes you here. You're fakey and flakey, you write about ECUSA as if it were the universal church, and your writing is mean-spirited for someone who is -- implicitly -- a clergyman. Your arguments are vacuous. When someone challenges you on a basic point, you avoid the question. Are you a homosexual? Be honest! You defend gay rights but you have yet to explain your motives. I have news for you, pal. If David Virtue has anything to do with it your denomination will be toast in approximately, let's say, about four years. Do the math. Enlightened people are leaving in droves. Two million (the membership a few years ago) minus one million (where we are today) minus another million, is ZERO. Good luck!
Joe of the Valley |
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| gregory | Posted: 2005/12/20 23:59 Updated: 2005/12/21 0:02 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers For them, religion was a means of personal gain, they were in the habit of using God, using others, using theology, using their power - all using, abusing! God does not take kindly to those who think they can use him. And so the prophet of God, John the Baptist, called them a brood of vipers, decedents of the snake. The viper he was referring to was a small brown snake, common to the deserts in which John lived. These snakes had an uncanny ability to disguise themselves as twigs. Children on occasion would pick up what looked to them like a twig to play with, and it would turn around and bite them with a venom, that if the strike was true would kill. The same thing happened to the apostle Paul on the Island of Malta. There, after experiencing a brutal storm at sea, Paul on the shores of Malta gathered twigs and made a fire. When the heat of the burning twigs arose, a viper came and affixed itself to Paul's hand, those who saw it all expected him to die. So to, in the time of John the Baptist, often the only safe way to clean up an area with a lot of twigs was by fire, to destroy twigs along with the vipers. The picture that John the Baptist refers to here is one of those fires that burns and gets rid of the poisonous vipers that unlike the branches around them had no capacity to bring forth good fruit. John pictures their destruction, along with their whole system of self serving religion as the tree that was about to be cut at the root, destroyed burned because it was useless and offensive to God.
But the other passage which we read, from Isaiah 11, pictures for us a different tree. This tree, like other family trees was the tree of Jesse, the descendants of the Father of David. The scripture promises to this family, covenant promises that the house of David would sit on the throne of God's kingdom for ever and ever. This tree contained the persistence of God's promises...'You shall never fail to have a man to sit before me on the throne of Israel," ..... Advent is the time when we see again that God's promises infalibly come true. A sight that we need in life, when all around us, the world is filled with promises that are not kept, toys that break down, bodies that fail. In this life though, we have hope. We may see just a stump, but even as we by faith look at what seems hopeless, we see the persistent power of the promises of God. That was the heart of John's message. Listen once again to Isaiah as he describes the ministry of John the baptist A voice says, "Cry out." And I said, "What shall I cry?" "All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field. The grass withers and the flowers fall, because the breath of the LORD blows on them. Surely the people are grass. The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever." The wonderful truth here is that we can hope. We see our lives, we see the hopelessness of the human condition, yet behind even our condition is the word of the Lord that tells us that though we return to dust, though our bodies are planted as a seed, that is not the end for what is planted as a seed, like as stump, as good as dead, will return to new life, the life of the ages to come, where sorrow and anxiety and pain will be wiped away and we will be with the Lord and with our loved ones in the Lord, and the joy that we experience will know no end. ONE PERSISTENT TREE Isaiah 11:1-10, Matthew 3:1-12 |
| gregory | Posted: 2005/12/21 0:07 Updated: 2005/12/21 0:07 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers ROMANS 15:12 And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him." May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 0:39 Updated: 2005/12/21 0:39 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Hi Joe of the Valley,
Welcome into the fray! Steve goes on and on and on like a dessicated harpy - It's really sad - desinformation and all that he spreads. Blessings, The G-man |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 1:02 Updated: 2005/12/21 1:11 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Hey Joe of the Valley - Welcome!
(We now have both valleys and mountains covered by good Joes...) - Ya know all, IT'S A TRUE AND WELCOME BADGE OF GODLY CHRISTIAN HONOR TO BE ATTACKED BY STEVE! Thank you, Steve. I mean it. With Christian love! Essodalori P.S. Most of us are on the number two or number three saintliness meter (on a scale of a hundred), as measured by the number of Steve attacks. A true saint would measure upwards of 80 or 90 in a period of a day or two. We all, good Christians, have much work to do. We can rely on the Steve-o-meter to measure our progress. |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2005/12/21 2:09 Updated: 2005/12/21 2:14 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: God vs. Man Fr_Steve, are you trying to tell us that your Episcopal Church.....or at least your part of it.....isn't PERFECT? This is the same Church which claims to be right, while we reasserters are wrong! This is the same Church which you wildly trumpet as the Church which is "welcoming" to all people.....including child molesters of the gay variety. This is the same Church which has demonstrated over the past three years that its revisionist bishops will swiftly and without mercy openly and shamefully discriminate against graduates of two of our seminaries, (Nashotah House and Trinity Episcopal School for Ministries) who will persecute faithful clergy whose only offense against their bishops has been to preach the Truth found in Holy Writ, and it is the same Church whose revisionist bishops will swiftly inhibit and depose these same faithful clergy!
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 3:12 Updated: 2005/12/21 3:12 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Esso,
Again, your unerring sense provides us with the ammo. To wit: The Steve-o-meter! It probably could be patented - you'll be a trillionaire in short order. Xrists Bountiful Blessings, The G-man |
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| shytech74 | Posted: 2005/12/21 8:39 Updated: 2005/12/21 8:39 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/4/23 From: Ontario Canada Posts: 1054 |
2 Thess 2:...apt description. "...they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thess 2:10b-12) I humbly refer any interested readers to my post in the "conservative corner" forum re: eschatology link. I would appreciate your thoughts on the author's opinions. Does DV's above article have anything to do with endtime apostasy? |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 10:27 Updated: 2005/12/21 10:31 |
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Re: 2 Thess 2:...apt description. Thank you, esteemed colleagues, for your warm welcome. Special thanks goes out to Gander, who encouraged me to join in the discussion. I would also like to thank my mother and father for...okay, just kidding. What happened to Steve? Oh, maybe he is a little frustrated knowing that there are thousands of people, like me, who have read his ridiculous comments for the past year and are still scratching their heads looking for the scriptural, reasonable, traditional (not to mention logical) elements so conspicuously absent from his posts. I am sure he is a nice person, or seems to be. What I can't figure out for the life of me is why people like this don't just admit that they have invented an entirely new form of (somewhat) Christian-based religion. It has elements of Christianity but more importantly is its emphasis on being nice and--most importantly, of course--is the new religion's teaching of the equality of all religions. Right, Steve? Sorry to bother you but for the past year we have been waiting for you to give a simple, reasonable, scriptural, traditional (and try to keep it logical) argument for why you and your friends believe it is okay for two people of the same gender to engage in sexual relations. You claim to believe this does not make other sexual deviation (bestiality, e.g.) more acceptable. I think brother Esso has beaten you over the head with this point about a hundred times, to no avail. My theory is you finally concluded that--though Esso may be a little earthy for your tastes--he has in fact made an irrefutable point. Meanwhile, the Christian world watches and waits for ECUSA to explain itself.
JOTV |
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| Ralph | Posted: 2005/12/21 11:56 Updated: 2005/12/21 11:56 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2005/12/21 From: Posts: 44 |
Zechariah 13:7 What seems to be missing here (to an outsider) is a sense of mutual pastoral care, something that isn't necessarily limited to ordained clergy.
Regarding the original article, one is reminded of Zech 13:7 - Smite the shepherd, and scattered is the flock. I'd agree that some of our bishops are acting as if they have been "smitten". Most of our bishops are fine shepherds. John 10:1-21 also seems relevant here. Some of the bishops appear to be functioning as hired hands. Most know these words well, and take them to heart. I'd simply observe that we must pray for them, asking that the Holy Spirit remind them that they are earthly agents of Jesus Christ, and that they are first and foremost deacons who must practice a servant ministry. The latter can be said for all of us. |
| Truthseekr | Posted: 2005/12/21 12:17 Updated: 2005/12/21 12:17 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/14 From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru ) Posts: 784 |
Re: God vs. Man Quote:
Greetings Brother Don, Oh yeah, I know I tend to get to long winded. It’s not the first time... and I can easily laugh at myself about it. So, I will try a simple answer as to how we know sin. God gave us His Holy Scriptures. The Bible is our foundation for all answers and truth, and the definition of unholy sin... Quote: I read that I am to test the spirits by the Holy Spirit (my preci'). If this is what you are saying then there is a bit of a logical disconnect as we can not test a thing with itself - one checks the ambient temperature with a thermometer, not with the air. Sorry I was not clear in my intent enough. The testing of the spirits is defined from Holy Scriptures. 3 places immediately come to mind (there are more). “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? Mat ch 7 “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2 John ch 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. And every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of coming, and now it is already in the world. 1 John ch 4 So, the primary tests are related to the question “who is Jesus Christ?” and the answer that is given. Another technique is the Holy Spirit gift of discernment. This one is a bit more complicated. If a spirit fails the above scriptural tests, is it identified by knowledge of the scriptures or by gift of discernment or both? I do not know, but lean towards the “both” answer. Yet, there are times when a Christian with the gift of discernment can know the answer immediately. It may sound on the surface like trying to measure something with itself, but it is not. It is the Spirit of Truth gift judging a falsehood. Yours in Christ Jesus, Truthseekr |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 12:27 Updated: 2005/12/21 12:27 |
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To Set Our Hope on Christ Seasons Greetings and Happy Holidays abcdefg!
Sadly, many who profess to be Christians don't believe truly in a living God who is alive and active in the world today, or believe in being led by God. The leaders and vast majority of the Episcopal Church, thankfully, do seek and follow God, despite the unbelief and curses of others. But could they do anything else? Who would choose making some angry people happy over following God? Not me. You still have some of the same old questions that have been asked and answered many times. I would refer you to the succinct document "To Set Our Hope on Christ" prepared by ECUSA to the ACC earlier this year. But if one does not seek God, does not believe that God really does work in the world, it may seem every bit as bizzare as the far fetched notion of the Incarnation. There's only so much believers can do to help those who do not know God. But they can't make the journey for you. I'm way out of entertainment time for now, busy preparing holiday sermons for the weekend. I hope you Advent, and that for all whom God is important was meaningful, and that the coming holiday brings incredible joy and wonder into you lives. Peace and blessings to all, Steve+ |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 13:09 Updated: 2005/12/21 13:33 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Zechariah 13:7 "What seems to be missing here (to an outsider) is a sense of mutual pastoral care, something that isn't necessarily limited to ordained clergy."
-- Sure, Ralph. A pastorally-oriented approach should be the default of most Christians. But it is not the end-all and be-all (no matter how many times the 'clergy' says it is). In recent years, such has become a chorus from the clergy - a mantra - who use that as an excuse for not stating difficult and unwanted Christian truth. It is equivalent to this statement: we must never upset anyone. You will note, of course, that the Son of God Himself did not follow such a guideline; neither, of course, has God. The idea that we must never upset anyone is NOT Christian. It is part of the religion of: we must always be nice. No! God and Christ are NOT always 'nice.' They are loving. There be a huge difference between the two. The Christian's job is NOT to be nice; it is to save souls from perdition, and to help bring souls to God. If one can be nice and accomplish that task, so much the better. If one cannot, then being nice becomes a form of evil. Yes, that's right - a form of evil. When you are nice, while your brother sins away, or while you hide the truth from your brother, you are sinning mightily by being nice. Indeed, as we know, Satan can be enormously nice. (Hey Jesus, I can give you all the kingdoms of the world...) Further, we you are fighting unrepentant evil, you cannot be nice (or you will lose the fight)! "You brood of vipers" comes to mind. At many times in the past, I have tried to reach out to Steve, to show compassion to him for the state he is in. It has never made a difference. Whereas, Steve makes liberal use of scorn and polemic to advance his agenda (which is exactly the same of the revisionists who have taken over and destroyed ECUSA - I have found through the years that the one thing - the one thing - that those who are infected with various forms of evil, and who have gained power or control - cannot abide - it's scorn and ridicule. It makes them think; it makes them realize they have not succeeded in controlling the minds and hearts of others; it makes them realize that they control only emptiness. The same thing that punctures the ECUSA balloon is the same thing so many used to puncture the communist evil which swept this world in the last century. Our job is to save souls. If ridicule and scorn and rejection (yes, rejection) are the only tools left to have a chance to do so, it becomes truly loving to use that tool, and unloving to not. It's a Christian form of 'tough' love. With Christian love, Essodalori P.S. The hardest thing for many of the ECUSA and CoE buffoon clergy is that this site, for instance, is forcing them to confront how many good and faithful Christians actually see them. That is good for them and their souls. P.S.S. I often think about Nicodemus - the Pharisee that came over to the Christ-side. Jesus brutalized the Pharisees (presumably because that was the only way to have a chance of getting to them). Nicodemus was presumably saved. Jesus' brutal truthfulness may have saved that man's soul - even if the others could not so be. (And further, Nicodemus' quest for truth, and Jesus incredibly beautiful reply to him have been brought into the ages. Nicodemus would have been astounded at his role in the history of the world...) |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2005/12/21 13:12 Updated: 2005/12/21 13:12 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Greetings to all! I'm going to go off topic for once and tell you what we are going to do this Christmas Eve at our small mission church here in the Central Valley. For many years, I have been a guitarist and singer....what good Welshman doesn't like to sing? Prior to the Mass, we are going to sing carols, and then process into the church. Following the Eucharist, I am going to present the history of "Stille Nacht" to the congregation.....how a young Roman Catholic priest, Joseph Mohr, also a student of the guitar, wrote the poem in 1816....hoping to have it set to music....and how Herr Franz Gruber, organist at St Nicholas' Church in Oberndorf, Austria, wrote the musical score on Christmas Eve, 1818. The story goes that the organ was not working because the church mice ate a hole in the bellows, but this has since been proven untrue.
I wanted to offer my friends and neighbors in the congregation something different this year, and I thought about how appropriate this would be. Merry Christmas, and a Happy and Prosperous New Year to all! Cennydd |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 13:17 Updated: 2005/12/21 13:17 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Hey Cennydd,
Well, I'm part Scot and Irish, and there's no Scotsman or Irishman who doesn't like to hear a Welshman sing (or a Welsh maid either!). May you and yours enjoy the very best of God's blessings this Christmas. With much Christian love, Esso |
| Festivus | Posted: 2005/12/21 13:33 Updated: 2005/12/21 13:33 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/12/2 From: Earth Posts: 240 |
Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ Fr_Steve Posted: 2005/12/21:
"would refer you to the succinct document "To Set Our Hope on Christ" prepared by ECUSA to the ACC earlier this year." *********** The ECUSA document must be read in the context of Scripture and fellowship within the Anglican Communion. As I had written previously on this topic, the following bears repeating. Churches in The Anglican Communion are described as autonomous with freedom-in-relation; each church is subject to limits generated by the commitments of communion. The very nature of autonomy itself obliges each church to have regard to the common good of the global Anglican community and the Church universal. According to The Lambeth Conference of 1920, “The Churches represented in [the Communion] are indeed independent, but independent with the Christian freedom which recognizes the restraints of truth and love. They are not free to deny the truth. They are not free to ignore the fellowship.” While I will not belabor the findings of the Windsor Report, although I highly suggest that everyone read “A Response to the Windsor Report” (see footnote 1), I will note that an essential finding was that ECUSA had unilaterally decided that same sex relationships are matters that can be decided at the provincial or local level. They did so without agreement by the Communion as a whole, and having acted on certain convictions they put them forward for reception in spite of these being against the declared mind of the Anglican Communion. By so doing they damaged and contributed to the growing divisions within the Communion. The damage was considered so egregious that the Primates requested that ECUSA formally explain its actions before the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Primates . In June 2005, ECUSA presented its defense of its actions in a report titled, “To Set Our Hope on Christ”. In the forward written by the presiding Bishop Frank T. Griswold, he says that, “Though we have not reached a common mind we have come to a place in our discussion such that the clergy and people of a diocese have been able, after prayer and much discernment, to call a man living in a same sex relationship to be their bishop. As well, a majority of the representatives of the wider church—bishops, clergy and lay persons—have felt guided by the Holy Spirit, again in light of prayer and discernment, to consent to the election and consecration.” Further, the report states, “After this Introduction, we turn… to the question of holiness of life and same-sex affection: first, we note that members of our Church have begun to discern genuine holiness in the lives of persons of same-sex affection, and then we describe how we have sought light from Holy Scripture to understand our situation—especially from an important account, in the Acts of the Apostles, of the early followers of Jesus seeking to understand the Lord’s will. We then describe how that has given us new eyes to read other passages of Scripture, how members of our Church have come to new views about same-sex relationships, and, finally, how we have sought to understand these relationships in the light of the Church’s traditions about the universal call to holiness in all relationships.” Cramer notes that, “Since there is so much public debate and confusion as to the relationship of marriage to pre-marital sex and homosexuality, it is appropriate here to take a look at some of the God-inspired qualities that should be nurtured in marriage. These include unconditional love (Greek: agape), faithfulness, selflessness, mercy, respect, purity, courage, honesty, strength, and consistently enduring commitment (undiminished by time or circumstance). These qualities should be cherished and appreciated not only in marriages but wherever found. It is certainly fair to say that not all marriage partners maintain these edifying qualities, nor do all "straight" (heterosexual) singles maintain these qualities in their dating relationships. Keeping in mind the story of Jesus' handling of the adulterous woman (see John 8:1-11), many married people and many single straight people should be especially careful not to cast stones at homosexuals. The fact is that some gays/lesbians may exemplify greater commitment to many of the above-mentioned good qualities in their relationships than do some heterosexuals, both married and unmarried.” Note that a primary premise for this defense is that observation determines the validity of homosexual relationships, rather than accepting scripture as the lens through which all things are identified as being holy unto God. The Apostle Paul records that the Bereans “…examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” In the light of scripture, the homosexual relationship is undeniably condemned. A second premise is that the Holy Spirit is providing a new revelation that is in opposition to the declared mind of the communion and is in contrast to Holy Scripture. The Holy Spirit is often described as being compounded, processed, and all-inclusive. He is the consummation of the Triune God reaching His chosen people. The Apostle John described this relationship when he says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning” and records Jesus saying that He would send another Person Who was exactly like Himself, the "allos Parakletos," God the Holy Spirit. John describes the Holy Spirit as being God’s agent of revelation. The Apostle Paul writes the Holy Spirit is a requirement for true Christian living, for “those without the Spirit cannot not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” When man places his wisdom and observation in the place of the Holy Spirit, the truth is exchanged for a lie. In the Book of Galatians, Paul differentiates between the counterfeit "gospel" ("heteros") and the true Gospel ("allos"). This counterfeit "gospel" was a heresy delivered to the Galatians who had already received the truth. As the expressed in Lambeth 98, the Anglican Communion, which includes ECUSA, has declared that homosexual practice is not supported by Scripture and Holy Scripture confirms the belief of the communion . For ECUSA to now declare otherwise shows that they have accepted a counterfeit gospel and rejected the truth; therefore, their actions cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit. Just as Paul entreats the Galatians to reject heretical teachings, any discussion about a new revelation regarding new standards around homosexuality can and should be firmly dismissed. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 13:39 Updated: 2005/12/21 13:39 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: 2 Thess 2:...apt description. "Right, Steve? Sorry to bother you but for the past year we have been waiting for you to give a simple, reasonable, scriptural, traditional (and try to keep it logical) argument for why you and your friends believe it is okay for two people of the same gender to engage in sexual relations. You claim to believe this does not make other sexual deviation (bestiality, e.g.) more acceptable. I think brother Esso has beaten you over the head with this point about a hundred times, to no avail."
--- Ya know, abcdefg - The revisionist ECUSAns (and much of the world), wants to believe that sexual relations are for the taking with whomever we 'feel' good about - for whomever we like (a man, woman, friend, animal, child, etc. etc.). The truth is, in such a world, families fall apart, death and disease are spread, lust becomes an idol, and we destroy the Christian ability to be true brothers and sisters to each other (as children of God). Because true brothers and sisters do not use each other for sex. All societies which have greatly embraced this heretical idea about sex, have fallen (and usually rather quickly). The west is in danger fromt his now. Only devotion to God will be able to save it. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 13:40 Updated: 2005/12/21 13:40 |
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Re: God vs. Man Very good!
We will be accused of being "Bible worshipers" or some-such, but the logical problem will always remain, what else shall I test my morality and view of God agianst? There is nothing - if there is no Word from God - no Testament (contract) from God. His word is as unchanging as an "offer to purchase" on a property. Some trust in armies, some trust in smart men, some trust in themselves, but our trust is anchored in an eternal Truth. ^^^^^ Will your anchor hold in the storms of life, When the clouds unfold their wings of strife? When the strong tides lift and the cables strain, Will your anchor drift, or firm remain? Refrain We have an anchor that keeps the soul Steadfast and sure while the billows roll, Fastened to the Rock which cannot move, Grounded firm and deep in the Savior’s love. It is safely moored, ’twill the storm withstand, For ’tis well secured by the Savior’s hand; And the cables, passed from His heart to mine, Can defy that blast, thro’ strength divine. Refrain It will surely hold in the Straits of Fear— When the breakers have told that the reef is near; Though the tempest rave and the wild winds blow, Not an angry wave shall our bark o’erflow. Refrain It will firmly hold in the Floods of Death—- When the waters cold chill our latest breath, On the rising tide it can never fail, While our hopes abide within the Veil. Refrain When our eyes behold through the gath’ring night The city of gold, our harbor bright, We shall anchor fast by the heav’nly shore, With the storms all past forevermore. Refrain Holy Scripture. God's will for us. Don http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/w/e/h/wehavean.htm |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 13:49 Updated: 2005/12/21 13:50 |
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Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ Earth to Steve, Earth to Steve. Come in, Steve! Oh well, he's obviously not listening. This is abcdefg. Pretty basic. I was a writing major in college. A prolific novelist once told me I had unique skill with a pen. Steve, unfortunately, your answer was incoherent. Anyway, Merry Christmas, and say hello to your Unitarian congregation for us.
JOTV |
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| fyffee | Posted: 2005/12/21 14:43 Updated: 2005/12/21 14:43 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2005/5/16 From: Carnarvon, Western Australia Posts: 112 |
Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ Happy Holidays? Steve?
Are you not an ordained minister of Christ in the Anglican Communion, and you are falling for the ruse of the world to remove any recognition of Christ from the Christmas festival? What has gotten into you man? It is becoming increasingly common in the world to de-Christ Christmas. Please, please everyone, hold fast to the traditional and Christ - honouring greeting for this season of "Merry Christmas" and begone with the wispy "happy holidays". On a similar note - I hope everyone here dates their letters and other documents with the letters A.D. after the year (short for Anno Domini, or "in the year of the Lord) instead of the increasingly common CE, short for Common Era, being adopted in the secular and academic world. Merry Christmas and God's blessings to you all, Brian |
| JMorrow | Posted: 2005/12/21 14:50 Updated: 2005/12/21 14:50 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2005/5/24 From: Central Gulf Coast Posts: 73 |
Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ Perhaps we should cut Steve a bit of slack today since he's working on his messages for the weekend- I imagine it takes a while to generate the resultant convoluted gobbledegook.
Nah! Anyway good points above in reply cover most thoughts. I would add that Fr. PC prominently uses the PC Holiday greetings. Merry Christmas to you, Steve. And to all. Also in re: "Who would choose making some angry people happy over following God? Not me." Steve's inimitable taste for unintended irony reasserts itself. What has ECUSA been doing since 2003 if not pandering to a tiny angry liberal PAC? Of course most of us think that the above quote represents exactly what Steve, et. al. are doing. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 15:03 Updated: 2005/12/21 15:04 |
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Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ Hey JOTV,
Didn't you know that steve-o is a behind-the-scenes member of the Unitarian Universalist Church whose president is William Sinkford(what an apt last name) and their Seminary is the Starr King ditto in Berkeley - Oh, I forgot - Berkeley is Ho Chi Minh by the Bay Sinkford made it known that the UU's are supportive of Polyamory... Holy Cow, Batman - Marital relations for menage a trois and menage a quatres and Lord knows what else - homo/bestial wedlock...Anything Goes  G-man |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 15:09 Updated: 2005/12/21 17:04 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ Steve thinking about potental subjects for his 'holiday' sermons:
- There is truth, or it's true that there is no truth. (No wait, but then there is truth!...) - Why homoanalfecal sodomy, but not bestiality? - Why I will die for God, but not for Christ. - Why I will never endorse what I don't like in the Bible... - Why we should vote for the morality we want... - Christ. If he really IS God's son, that doesn't mean we have to listen to him... - 'Tis the season to be sexually merry... - Why the menorah belongs on the altar... - Vickie Gene - a man of real character... - Anal sodomy and partial-birth abortion - the new sacraments - Why we are no different from Muslims... - Sin! Only the fundies believe it exists... - Pluriformity. How to believe your own truth, and to get others to believe you believe the truth and that they do too... - Tolerance. The key to a world which never gets upset... - Africans who believe the Bible - It's time to recolonize... - Schism is worse than heresy, so let's have heresy! - Rowan Williams, my hero... - Jerry Falwell or Osama bin Laden. Who is the greater threat? How can we tell? Can we? - My denomination. If it's broke, don't fix it. - The living God - He's always changing His mind! - Your soul - how to save it your way! - Brokeback Mount Him - the delightful Christmas film your children MUST see... ---- Merry Christmas, Steve!!! Come over to the Christ-side... With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 15:39 Updated: 2005/12/21 15:39 |
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Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE -
Don't be like the Scrooge in Charles Dickens Christmas Story. MERRY CHRIST-MAS g-man |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 15:48 Updated: 2005/12/21 15:48 |
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Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ "fr" Steve says to ABCDEFG
[Who would choose making some angry people happy over following God?] Apparently ECUSA has, in discarding the Holy Tradition and Scripture to pander to angry liberals, feminists, and those seeking to mainstream analfecal sex. |
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| DnNeal | Posted: 2005/12/21 16:31 Updated: 2005/12/21 16:31 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ _Steve,
We do believe in a God who is "a alive and active in the world today". We believe He is alive and active in the same way the Apostles, Fathers and Mothers of the Church East and West, Reformers, Anglican Divines believed it rather than the way the revisionists believe. Do you actually believe that all of them believed in a God who wasn't alive and active? The revisionist "way" is a "new thing" and it is not in the same line as the Christian tradition regardless of all the illogical gymnastics used to try to frame it as such. I really don't see the reason for even trying to do this. Why bother? And why would it be a good thing to base the new thing on something even science does not support? These questions have never been answered on this blog or anywhere else I've looked but they really need to be answered and well otherwise the "new thing" is not a rational thing or a compassionate thing. But I think you know that. I think you just like to provoke. Statements like your's misrepresent traditionalists unnecessarily. It is provocative as all the replies indicate but it is not true. Why not answer the theological and scientific questions? What is the point in avoiding them with those of us who really would dialogue? Neal |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 17:44 Updated: 2005/12/21 17:44 |
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Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ & Question for Steve In genuine seriousness - if the EC is being called to a new thing, and as such "theistic tradition" (as Spong calls it) is outdated ... WHY is the Creed included in the liturgy. Many, many times I have heard from local and national ECUSA leaders "we are not a confessing church." Even members at my former Episopal Church would not speak during the Creed, or openly said they say it only from the standpoint of keeping a tradition connecting the church to the past - it wasn't about "belief" but appearances. Why be dishonest -- is God leading the church to drop dogma that it has affirmed for 1600 years after discernement from the Holy Spirit by the thousands at the 7 eccumenical councils?
I BELIEVE IN ONE GOD - FATHER ALMIGHTY - CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH - ALL THINGS SEEN AND UNSEEN (Godhead of the Trinity, Source of everything) AND IN HIS SON - JESUS CHRIST - ETERNALLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER BEFORE ALL WORLDS - VERY GOD FROM VERY GOD - LIGHT FROM LIGHT - TRUE GOD FROM TRUE GOD (Christ is God) FOR OUR SALVATION CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN - BY THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS INCARNATE FROM THE VIRGIN MARY (Christ's Unambiguous Mission is to Reconcile Sinners to God. God Himself in the form of the Word Jesus became a physical human being through God's action (with Holy Spirit) in the undefiled servant girl Mary) FOR OUR SAKE HE WAS CRUCIFIED, DIED and BURIED (Christ's was Completly to His mission of Love to Us from the Father - Obedient with Love unto Death - through which our Sins are Cleaned Away IF we chose to accept Christ, and be part of who He is. This requires obedience and self denial on our part. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN (As God - He cannot die - He is enternal. His physical body thus underwent a physical resurection - being fully deified as part of Christ's whole being) ASCENDED into HEAVEN, AND SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD (Christ Is Parto of the ever existing Holy Trinity of God) HE WILL COME AGAIN TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD (uh oh -- all creation is accountable to God .. I imagine ECUSA takes issue with this big time) HIS KINGDOM WILL HAVE NO END God is Eternal I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT - THE LORD AND GIVER OF LIFE - WHO PROCEEDS FROM THE FATHER (The Holy Spirit is the Source of All life in God, proceeding from the Godhead) WITH THE FATHER AND SON HE IS WORSHIPED AND GLORIFIED HE HAS SPOKEN BY THE PROPHETS (As in Scripture & Tradition) I BELIEVE IN ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHRUCH (Apostolic tradition and Teaching? If not, then don't say it) This is enough for now ... Just looking for a meaningful and truthful response as to these statements from the Creed - not spin or wierd revisionist interpretation - "Yes or No" with respect to what the Councils' understanding of the statements are relative to modern ECUSA. Our Rector has clearly told us that the reason the Creed is in the liturgy, and place after the sermon, is to act as a plumbline to measure what is being taught (sermon) and celebrated in the worship. If it conflicts with the creed - it is to be rejected. This is what the "Vast Majority" in the true liturgical church have followed for milenia. That "To set our hope on Christ" document is a silly liberal appologetic disguised as theology by putting an Icon of Christ on the cover. It carries no more weight in Holy Tradition than one of Spong's apostate books. |
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| warmac9999 | Posted: 2005/12/21 18:03 Updated: 2005/12/21 18:03 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers None of these revisionist bishops will suffer financial loss during their lives - they have the pension clearly earmarked for themselves and the future be damned Their loss is one of image in this life and the ultimate realization that they have destroyed the Episcopal church. Eventually they will have to account for the actions in the hearafter.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 18:07 Updated: 2005/12/21 18:09 |
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Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... This is a general question first posed about 1 year ago by my wife to our former "bishop" and diocesian convention delegation ...
We keep hearing apologetics from the homosexual lobby about how their agenda is for homosexuals in monogamous relationships ... WHY THEN IN THE ECUSA GAY LOBBY (i.e. Integrity) AND AT PRIDE FESTIVALS AT ECUSA CATHEDRALS (Cleveland's Trinity specifcally), IS "GROUP" ALWAYS REFERED TO AS "LesBiGayTrans"???? BY DEFINITION BISEXUALS AND TRANSEXUALS ARE NOT MONOGAMOUS ... ANSWER ????? |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 18:20 Updated: 2005/12/21 18:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... "ANSWER ?????"
--- Really good question, amfreborg. Here are the real answers: 1) They appeal to 'committed' (but to what?) homorelationships, because they mimic marriage, and without that mimicry, no Christian will even contemplate accepting them. However, once they get that acceptance, they will just move onto the next thing. Why? Because they've already abandoned God and Christ and the Bible, and there's nothing to prevent them from so doing - and people want sex without lifelong 'commitment.' The next step is sex whenever you have 'good feelings' about someone (i.e., with your friends). The next step is just having sex to sate lust. That last is the ultimate destination, once you have abandoned God's rules on sex. A great, great many queers have already arrived at that last step (the bathhouse scene); 2) Many apostate liberals like the theory that sex should be about 'being in love.' (I'm in love with my horse, therefore sex with my horse is OK.) (I'm in love with a teenage boy; therefore pederasty with a teenage boy is OK.) Of course, 'being in love' has nothing to do with true Christian love. And (as every guy in the world knows), saying you're 'in love' often gets you sex. In this new sodomy movie, Brokeback Mountain, being 'in love' trumps fatherhood, marital fidelity, conscience, manliness, God, Christ, basic hygiene, self-control and honor... 3) They don't want people's fears of polygamry and polyamory to temporarily destroy the sodomy juggernaut. Once they win (which they won't) on sodomy, they will of course move on to group sex and polygamy (like the Unitarians); 4) They desperately want something which is unnatural, filthy, degenerate and wrong to plant in the minds of our youth to sound good. They are trying to 'market' homoanalfecal sodomy as best they can. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 18:27 Updated: 2005/12/21 18:27 |
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Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... Dear Esso,
You forgot one more thing to add to your list. Swingclubs which are now legal in Canada as stated by the Supreme court of Canada this morning. Do a Google search on it. Its on the Canadian news .God Bless BHTech |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 18:31 Updated: 2005/12/21 18:31 |
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Re: Sermons You can add:
1) "Earth in the Balance" and "Our Bodies, Ourselves," New Scripture for a New Century 2) "Brokeback MountHim" as Metaphor for the Church's Witness of X-Mas Love |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 18:34 Updated: 2005/12/21 18:34 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... Yeah, BHTech. And with the age of consent of 14 in Canada, 14-yr. old kids can go to the club and have group normal or deviant sex with adults.
Canada - A big fat child molester. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 18:37 Updated: 2005/12/21 18:39 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Sermons "Brokeback MountHim" as Metaphor for the Church's Witness of X-Mas Love
--- I'm sure most ECUSA priests have already gone to see Brokeback Mount Him. Must be a huge turn on. Next they'll bring the youth groups. Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 18:40 Updated: 2005/12/21 18:40 |
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Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... "Yeah, BHTech. And with the age of consent of 14 in Canada, 14-yr. old kids can go to the club and have group normal or deviant sex with adults."
******* Yep its only a matter of time before a 14 year old gets admitted to a swing club, gets molested more than they imagined and the parents sue the club for damages and the people involved and nobody gets charged or sent to jail! God Bless BHTech |
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| warmac9999 | Posted: 2005/12/21 19:19 Updated: 2005/12/21 19:19 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... The Canadian court ruled that the closeted sexual activity was not dangerous or damaging to Canadian society, so the sex clubs were free to have their swinger parties although prostitution still remains illegal.
This reminds me of story in an ethics lecture. The ethical dilemma presented was of a teenager going on a trip with his aging grandparents. The teenager used drugs and knew that the countries he was going to visit treated drug users harshly. He hid the drugs in the luggage of his aging grandparents knowing that they would be less likely to be searched. At the end of the trip, neither he or his grandparents had been caught with his drugs. The ethical question, therefore, was about the actions and the result. One proposition was that the unethical act when repeated over and over and over again, did damage society because it caused a general breakdown in integrity and undermined the law. The other proposition was that the result was what mattered not the pattern of actions, therefore no harm occured and there was no ethical problem. In this latter proposition, a society of law breakers who never got caught was equal to a society of law abiders who never broke the law. Which society do you want to live in - certainly not Canada if you are like me. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 19:30 Updated: 2005/12/21 19:30 |
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Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... Still looking for Steve. I guess he gets tired of us wacko fundamentalist Bible thumpers. Then he ponders his predicament and realizes anew that he and his cronies have in fact invented a new religion. What shall we call this new religion, Esso? Joe of the Mountain, any ideas? Gander, help me out. I have some ideas. How about Episcobabblineanism? The Episcobabba Church, for short. That's it. Yeah, that's the ticket. The Episcobabbas are known for babbling incoherently when confronted with a basic Christian truth.
Still waiting for Steve, peace and love, everybody! JOTV |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 19:37 Updated: 2005/12/21 19:46 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... As the story of the Canadian Supreme Court's warranting group orgy businesses spread, and as many of the nation's fourteen-yr. olds started saving up their allowances to attend, it was revealed today that the group orgy business in question was an ACoC church.
Many were shocked, but a priest for the church explained: "We don't follow the Bible or Jesus Christ anymore on sexual morality. We see nothing wrong in this..." The Archbishop of Canterbury later opined, after having been drawn into the debate, "We must listen to the authentic experiences of fourteen-yr. olds engaged in group sex orgies at Canadian orgy clubs." In the meantime, African Anglicans, who were also shocked by the news, were held to be extreme radical right-wingers, for not supporting the group orgy clubs. As Archbishop Eames of the Church of England pointed out: "We already allow our sixteen yr. olds in England to star in porno and homoporno films. We love our children, just like the Canadians do. The real sin is group orgiaphobia." After the new law passed, one of the ministers in the Canadian government, a staunch supporter of sodomite 'marriage,' revealed that he frequents an orgy club on Wednesdays and Thursdays, but doesn't consider it adultery. "It depends," he said, "on what the meaning of adultery is," he said, reminding Americans of an important grammatical and ethical principle set down by Bill Clinton. Last - the education minister is considering establishing orgy clubs in all Canadian high schools. "How will we teach our children to live in an orgy-club society, if they are not properly introduced to it in school?" Essodalori P.S. The Canadian parliament will be introducing a bill guaranteeing government subsidy for anyone over thirteen who cannot afford to frequent an orgy club on his own - as well as for anal lubricant, condoms, HIV test kits, baby wipes, and morning-after abortion medicines. At issue, it was explained to the Canadian public, was basic fairness. "We live," said the author of the bill, "in a morally superior society." P.P.S. Having been outed as the owner of the group orgy business in question, the ACoC church demanded that all fourteen yr. old orgy participants bring in a bag of canned food for the homeless before participating in any orgy. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 20:19 Updated: 2005/12/21 20:19 |
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Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... Esso, Esso, you're getting all worked up about nothing. Canada has about as much stature on the map as France. Wait, less. Sorry to insult France. Anyway, what do you think of Steve's new denomination? The Episcobabbas are nice people. Really nice. Esso, you know, you're a little strict about this sex thing. You mean to tell me that actually engaging in relations with the pet of your choice is ALWAYS sinful? WhY be so inflexible? Steve, if you're listening, we were wondering about your Sunday sermon. How about, "Why Religion is Unnecessary"? Or, "Why Christianity Should Morph into Episcobableanism?" The suspense is killing us, Steve. Help us out here.
JOTV |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 20:57 Updated: 2005/12/21 20:57 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... abcdefg,
I'm sooooooooo confused. What's the difference between Episcobableanism, and just plain old Bableanism? (Oh wait, I just figured it out. Episcobableanism sounds important...) With Christian love! Essodalori P.S. On your "Sorry to insult France." Why? |
| PJLILL | Posted: 2005/12/21 21:04 Updated: 2005/12/21 21:04 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/21 From: Alberta Posts: 310 |
Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... Quote:
Canada has about as much stature on the map as France. Wait, less. Sorry to insult France. But we're fair game eh? Glad you think so much of us! We're not all certifiable because of our daft courts. You do have your fair share too (Penn - freedom of (from) religion re ID). Peter |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 21:39 Updated: 2005/12/21 21:41 |
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Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... "But we're fair game eh? Glad you think so much of us! We're not all certifiable because of our daft courts. You do have your fair share too (Penn - freedom of (from) religion re ID)."
****** Dear Peter I think he (abcdefg) is making a joke out of it and not meant to be taken seriously . You must admit though, that with a Supreme court like ours who needs enemys? This extends to all walks of political life. Sponsorships scandal-no one is sent to jail, 2 billion dollar gun registry-no money to be found, corruption, corruption.Now swinging clubs! The only difference is that the government doesn't need a bill to pass this one. Their friends the Supreme court did it for them. God Bless BHTech |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/21 21:48 Updated: 2005/12/21 21:48 |
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Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... That's right, Esso. Episcobableanism is for very, very sophisticated people. Frankly, I am not sure you fit in. You believe all that stuff about Christ really being God's son, sex being reserved for marriage only between a man and a woman, etc., etc. Where have you been, man? The Episcobableists have enlightened the entire Christian world. Don't you even understand? When men really feel attracted to each other, why, come on, Esso, that must be a God-given desire because it feels so right. (You know, that song lyric is included in about 50 old top-ten records: "If it feels so right..."). I think you and I are being unreasonable. Hell, I feel like robbing a bank tonight and killing somebody. Are you going to judge me? You've been so judgmental in the past, you're probably going to say that it's ALWAYS wrong to kill people, even when it feels so right! But I'm in the mood. It just feels right. Good god, Esso, where have you been, stuck in the 19th century? Look, Steve wants to start a new religion. It's called Episcobableanism. Okay, I admit, they can't quite articulate what they believe, but they're such nice people, who cares? My goal is to get Steve to admit that they have actually invented a new religion. Then, perhaps, we can persuade them to go to a remote island (as Jim Jones did)....but encourage them to stay away from the Kool-Aid. As you know, homosexuality is a recessive gene, there's no way for them to reproduce, so in two or three generations they'll be a distant memory.
JOTV |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/21 22:55 Updated: 2005/12/21 22:57 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... "That's right, Esso. Episcobableanism is for very, very sophisticated people. Frankly, I am not sure you fit in."
-- You know, abcdefg, this is very, very hurtful. I mean, do you have unsophisticatedaphobia? I was under the mistaken impression that Episcobableanism was inclusive and welcoming. Wasn't Jesus Christ all about tolerance and never making a judgment about anything? Can I help it if I believe some things are wrong? (I was born that way, you know... Yeah, that's right: born that way...) I don't think there's anything that can be done about my unsophisticatedness. In fact, I think you can really damage people by trying to sophisticate them. Some people think that that's about love, but what if I don't want to be transformed? What if I really, really like being unsophisticated!?! And I thought Episcobabbles were 'progressive.' I've been fighting for the rights of the unsophisticated for many years. The Episcobabbles should be on the streets feeling my pain, working for equal rights with the sophisticates. It's a form of bigotry, you know. Hate. Raw hate. A lot of people just don't like us unsophisticates. I'm shocked that such bigotry has infected the Episcobabbles. I stand fourscquare with you, if you are going to condemn and out the bigotry of the Episcobabbles. I don't care if they're nice people. What's wrong is wrong! (See, more unsophisticatedness... I don't care. I'm unsophisticated, I'm out and proud, and I'm here!) With unsophisticated Christian love, Essodalori P.S. Worried that I'll unsophisticate your children? How bigoted. |
| shytech74 | Posted: 2005/12/21 23:21 Updated: 2005/12/21 23:21 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/4/23 From: Ontario Canada Posts: 1054 |
Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ & Question for Steve amfreborg...
I was stumbling like a lost child over your rendering of the Nicene Creed. I learned it the old way: I believe in one God, the Father Almighty Maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Begotten of His Father before all worlds God of God light of light Very God of very God. Begotten not made being of one substance with the Father by Whom all things were made Who, for us men, and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered, and was buried, and the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven and sitteth on the right hand of the Father and He shall come again, with glory to judge both the quick and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Ghost. The Lord and Giver of life, Who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, Who, with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets. And I believe One Catholic and Apostolic Church I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins and I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen. If we could all get on the same page language wise we might agree more? Then again, this is starting to sound like Dr. Peter Toon...  |
| frcharlie | Posted: 2005/12/22 0:08 Updated: 2005/12/22 0:08 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2004/8/11 From: Central New York Posts: 123 |
Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ fyffee:
Quote: On a similar note - I hope everyone here dates their letters and other documents with the letters A.D. after the year (short for Anno Domini, or "in the year of the Lord) instead of the increasingly common CE, short for Common Era, being adopted in the secular and academic world. Not to nit pick, but A.D. goes before the year, not after. B.C. comes after [540 Before Christ], but A.D. goes before {21 December in the Year of our Lord 2005]. I do agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, though, |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/22 0:43 Updated: 2005/12/22 0:43 |
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Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ & Question for Steve Sorry ShyTech .. I was stumbling myself -- prob trying to bite off too much. This is the version I know:
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth and of all things visible and invisible. And in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light of light; true God of true God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from Heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man. And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, died and was buried. And the third day He arose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; Whose Kingdom shall have no end. And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father; Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; Who spoke by the prophets. In one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen. My main goal was to bring out the basic creedal foundations - requesting afirmation or rejection on these from ECUSA standpoint. I know for a fact many members at my former ECUSA church who refused to say the statements about the Virgin Mary - and absolutely did not hold to Christ as very God from very God. Seems to me that the teaching is pretty straightforward - as Christ is Very God of Very God, to say He is "a way" as oppesed to "THE way" is the same as saying God is "a way." Pretty presumptuous to say the least. My other point is that - at least to me - I find it hypocitical and offensive that a revisionist church holds onto the creed in a manipulative way to give them the outward appearance of Apostolic authority and credibility. They are like two-bit despots who dress-up in fancy military uniforms just to prance around. If you're gonna be revisionist - cast off the liturgy, creed and Apostolic accutriments and be done with it. Blessings Amfreborg |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/22 0:49 Updated: 2005/12/22 0:49 |
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Yet Another Question And what in the world is a "Visigoth Rite" a la bishop Bennisen? Sounds rather ethnocentic - and as a descendant of the Ostrogoths myself (with a wife who is 1/2 Vandal), I feel excluded and marginalized -- guess that makes me one of those angry people Steve keeps yammering about.
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| FBarbarosa | Posted: 2005/12/22 1:13 Updated: 2005/12/22 1:13 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/11/24 From: Posts: 19 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Think about the interface between Physics and Christianity for a moment. God is one with the perfect order of creation. God has a "low entropy value" because he creates ordered complexity out of chaos. Satan promotes chaos. Our post-modern, post-everything society is increasingly chaotic, especially in our mores. ECUSA reflects and amplifies this chaos becuase its leaders are conditioned to think of themselves as important to the Social Order. The hard-to-ignore emphasis on homosexuality in today's ECUSA is especially unfortunate, because homosexuality is chaotic to the Social Order. Homosexuality is the antithesis of the Family, the ultimate perversion of marraige. And, sadly, gay people really are children of God who really need to understand the importance of one's conduct in one's relationship with God. ECUSA will not change. They'll go down screaming. Anglicans have reached the time to finally walk apart.
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/22 2:07 Updated: 2005/12/22 2:08 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Indeed, FBarbarosa. The universe was created with immense intrinsic order and an vanishingly small entropy. Out of the run-down of the universe, God has pulled us up, in the hopes we shall choose to become like He. Satan resists love and order at all points - hoping to sow chaos, despair, untruth, and raw selfishness. God has a beautiful plan for us, homosexuals included. But it is increasingly invisible to humans - and the one institution which is meant to make it visible - the church - has enfolded Satan into itself. ECUSA now does evil to homosexuals, to children and to society. ECUSA has been sodomized by Satan - and being the perversion it is, thinks such good.
With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/22 11:21 Updated: 2005/12/22 11:27 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE EPISCOBABBAS
Four billion B.C. – Man begins search for God 4 A.D. – God comes to Earth in the form of a human 18th Century – John Wesley preaches Anglicanism in southeastern United States 19th Century – Episcobabbas established as preferred religion of upper-crust Americans Mid-20th Century – Episcobabbas decide all religions are equally valid 1960s – Women are liberated, burn bras; Episcobabbas lead effort 1970s – Children of Episcobabbas decide there is no reason to go to church anymore 1980s – Membership declines 1990s – Gay activists organize in a brilliant scheme to elect an openly gay bishop 2003 – Gay bishop elected, but promises to be “bishop to all people, not just gay people.” 2004 – Changes his mind, begins to promote gay agenda 2005 – Membership declines 2006 – Episcobabba religion declared by Ripley’s to be “World’s Smallest Cult” Joe of the Valley |
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| Truthseekr | Posted: 2005/12/22 13:10 Updated: 2005/12/22 13:10 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/14 From: terra firma ................ ( just a pilgrim passing thru ) Posts: 784 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Quote:
"low entropy value" Poster: FBarbarosa Hi to FBarbarosa, welcome from the tech-noids of vol. I enjoyed your excellent post. truthseekr |
| fyffee | Posted: 2005/12/22 13:17 Updated: 2005/12/22 13:17 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2005/5/16 From: Carnarvon, Western Australia Posts: 112 |
Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... abcdefg:
my humble submission would be "Episcohedonism" - combining both ancient traditions of the true church being defined by the presence of the bishop; and the church being engaged in the unbridled pursuit of pleasure, and being free by the authority of the bishop to define what is pleasureable and participate in it, according to whatever rites and liturgy the local bishop, without reference or regard to external considerations, see fit. This would surely help the church to grow and flourish, and hopefully it would remain untaxed!! |
| Traktaryan | Posted: 2005/12/22 13:23 Updated: 2005/12/22 13:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/16 From: Posts: 710 |
Re: Second Question for ECUSA Revisionists ... Poster: fyffee Posted: 2005/12/22 13:17:22
abcdefg: my humble submission would be "Episcohedonism" - combining both ancient traditions of the true church being defined by the presence of the bishop; and the church being engaged in the unbridled pursuit of pleasure, and being free by the authority of the bishop to define what is pleasureable and participate in it, according to whatever rites and liturgy the local bishop, without reference or regard to external considerations, see fit. This would surely help the church to grow and flourish, and hopefully it would remain untaxed!! ========== I prefer the tried-and-true term "Episcopagan" myself. |
| gregory | Posted: 2005/12/22 14:09 Updated: 2005/12/22 15:34 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Brother Esso' ands anyone else, ""But it is increasingly invisible to humans - and the one institution which is meant to make it visible - the church "
The 1979 alternate services book uses the terms unseen and seen VS The 1928 Prayer Book using the terms invisible and visible. We must get back to understanding the difference. The quote above would be correct with the 1979 usage. Does not fit with the 1928 PB understanding. invisible = Impossible to see; not visible: Air is invisible. unseen is close but it is possible to see unseen things such as using a telescope or microscope. maybe someone else can put it better than me... humbly, gregory later edit here, thank you Esso' for your responses. Yes we have Narnia on the list to do things for Christmas break. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/12/22 14:35 Updated: 2005/12/22 14:35 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Yeah, Mr. Gregory man,
God does not allow us to see Him directly, even with the best scientific instruments. Why? Because He wants us to come to Him of our own accord. He is invisible; His mighty creation is not; His miracles are not; His beauty and glory, as reflected in the hearts and souls of man are not. With Christian love! Esso (And have a super Christmas with kids and grandkids... - Take 'em to see the Narnia movie!) |
| gregory | Posted: 2005/12/22 15:25 Updated: 2005/12/22 15:25 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: To Set Our Hope on Christ ""A.D. goes before {21 December in the Year of our Lord 2005].""
on all of my Christmas cards i put a cross before the 2005 that i put in the top right corner, since most do not understand A.D. i've been asked why i put it there and what it means... has made for a chance to witness... just my two cents, gregory |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/22 18:39 Updated: 2005/12/22 18:39 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers great posts, everyone,
but something is nagging me! "Amfreborg" I am intrigued by your VOL name. As a "Star Trek, Next Generation" fan (having been raised on the original series), it conjures up "am free of the Borg" or "America free of the Borg" ... Or maybe it's a real name. In fairness, my VOL name is the historic name of the old farmhouse my family lives in. Used to call it jokingly "stately Stoneridge Manner" (ala the Batman series) until "the tornado of '04"! |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/22 21:24 Updated: 2005/12/22 21:24 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Sorry Stoneridge - though the
Star Trek connection is a neat coincidence, and I get jokes about it a lot, its just a name. I am Swedish on my father's side -- last name was "Friberg," now Americanized as "Freborg" |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/22 22:11 Updated: 2005/12/22 22:11 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Well,amfreborg, forgive me for both prying and for my parochialism! And God bless your family this Christmas and in 2006, and I am glad you have joined us!
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/23 1:14 Updated: 2005/12/23 1:14 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers Hey Stoneridge -- nothing to forgive ..
Same to you and all VOL friends! Blessed and Holy Christmas Let us rejoice - Emmanuel! God is with Us! |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/24 12:15 Updated: 2005/12/24 12:15 |
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Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers IT’S OFFICIAL: NEW RELIGION FORMED FROM CULT REMNANTS
December 24, 2005 – Worldwide News Sources In an announcement prepared to celebrate the Advent season and kick off the New Year, the Episcopal Church of the United States of America (ECUSA) declared itself an entirely separate and misunderstood remnant of the once-revered Episcopal Church in America. Calling themselves “Episcobabbas”, Archbishop-Father Stephen Pike-Spong spoke with our intrepid reporter, Joe Uvthavali just this morning, to clarify the new cult’s beliefs and lay to rest rampant rumors that the new denomination is actually a spin-off of Buddhism, not Christianity. Joe Uvthavali: Welcome Archbishop-Father Pike-Spong. Archbishop-Father Pike-Spong: Please call me Fr. Steve. Joe Uvthavali: Okay, call me Joe. Steve: Very well. Joe: Well, how exciting. An entirely new religion. What exactly do Episcobabbas believe? Steve: Blah, babba, blah, babba, babba, babba, tolerance and listening. Joe: What was that first part? Steve: You weren’t listening. Joe: But you didn’t say anything. Steve: You’re not being tolerant. Joe: Okay, let’s move on. What kind of a religion is this anyway? Steve: It’s the best. It feels so right, it can’t be wrong. Joe: But what do you believe? Steve: You’re being judgmental. Joe: I am being judgmental right now, or your entire belief system is that I, Joe Uvthavali, am a judgmental person. Steve: Blah, babba, blah, babba, babba, tolerance and listening. Joe: Okay, I guess. Well, thanks for coming in Fr. Steve. And congratulations for forming such a unique religion. Steve: Happy Holidays and good luck. JOTV |
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| warmac9999 | Posted: 2005/12/26 19:27 Updated: 2005/12/26 19:27 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: ECUSA: The House of Bishops - A Generation of Vipers NEILLSVILLE, Wis. (AP) - A 64-year-old man has pleaded no contest to charges in Clark County Circuit Court after telling police he regularly had been using calves for sexual gratification.
Harold G. Hart was placed on two years probation Thursday and ordered to have psychological counseling and an alcohol and drug abuse assessment after pleading to charges of sexual gratification with an animal and disorderly conduct. According to the criminal complaint, the family living on the farm Hart visited, installed a motion sensor because they had seen suspicious footprints and vehicle tracks. When the sensor sounded, Hart was caught leaving the barn. He later told police the farm was a routine stop, usually after bar closing or on trips to strip clubs near Marshfield or Neillsville. Hart told police he had gone to the farm at least 50 times in the last year, sometimes two to four times in a week. It is my understanding that his failed defense was that he is married to a variety of calves and has had the marriage blessed at the local Episcopal church. After all, inclusiveness and diversity are what matters. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/27 14:51 Updated: 2005/12/27 14:51 |
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Re: God vs. Man Poster: mgooch Posted: 2005/12/20 13:41:03
Marlin: I, as well as others, will strongly recommend that you not waste bandwidth and attempt to reason with _Steve. He tries to show his intelligence by issuing all kinds of opinions as to what the orthodox do and what they think. Yet when _Steve is asked a simple question that he chooses not to answer, he "dummys up." For the record, here's the question that he refuses to answer: "Would you support or reject the EcUSA if it allowed those that practice bestiality or polyamory to serve as priests and bishops in the church?" It's amazing that this question can be answered by all on VOL with the exception of _Steve. His lack of intelligence is obvious when he fumbles with such a simple question, and finds it impossible to verbalize his opinion (whatever it may be.) You may want to limit your debates with other revisionists whose IQs are double digit. With the love of Christ to all, mgooch ================================ Unfortunatily it is just the Fr_Steve types that are destroying our Church. They refuse to recognize the Articles of Religion and any part of the Bible they don't agree with. I'm on another site that has a lot of young Episcopalians and the things they are being taught is alarming to say the least. Fr_Steve did reply to me but as you said he evaided the issue. The Artiicles of Religion state clearly that we are to follow the moral commandments handed to Moses by God. Lv. 18,22 (moral commandment) says it all. If they want to deny this then they are going against not only the Bible but the Church, and teaching others to do so as well. The Articles of Religion call for them to be made excommunicate untill they truly repent. I'm trying to get the youngsters on the other site to take a good look at what is required of us as Episcopalians. Wish me luck. Marlin |
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| gregory | Posted: 2005/12/27 15:22 Updated: 2005/12/27 15:22 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: God vs. Man Marlin, thank you for postin on VOL.
"I'm trying to get the youngsters on the other site" please give link to "the other site". TIA, gregory |
| mgooch | Posted: 2005/12/27 18:53 Updated: 2005/12/27 18:53 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2004/1/5 From: Posts: 68 |
Re: God vs. Man Marlin:
Rather than wishing you luck, I will keep you and your efforts in my prayers. I'm sure that your work with the children will prove to be more rewarding than expending fruitless efforts with _Steve. God bless you for your work, Marlin. With the love of Christ to all, mgooch |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/12/28 13:23 Updated: 2005/12/28 13:23 |
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Re: God vs. Man Gregory
www.myspace.com You have to be a member to access anything. It's a "meeting people site" and has groups. The group is "Episcopalians" headed up by a Lady named Kathy. Mgooch Thank you. These children are in their early 20's for the most part. Being 60 myself they all appear as youngsters to me. My son is allmost 30. I appreciate the prayers. God be with you all. Mick |
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| DnNeal | Posted: 2005/12/28 13:27 Updated: 2005/12/28 13:27 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/26 From: Tennessee Posts: 1302 |
Re: God vs. Man What a great ministry!
My prayers are with you too, Mick. I'll check the site out too. The next generation is at great risk. Neal |
| Ralph | Posted: 2005/12/31 11:26 Updated: 2005/12/31 11:26 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2005/12/21 From: Posts: 44 |
Chaucer's Shiten Shepherde In reading the original posting and the myriad responses above, and reflecting on them in the locus of pastoral theology, one might go back to Chaucer's description of the parson in Canterbury Tales, in contrast with the episcopus malus of Zechariah (and Malachi).
For sure, clergy and laity can only aspire to be Christ-like, and in this earthly existence we always fall short. But, that's not a reason to tolerate a "shiten shepherde" who isn't even trying to be Christ-like. Chaucer's parson can be found at: http://www.librarius.com/canttran/genpro/genpro479-530.htm Contrast with: Zechariah 11:17; 13:7 Malachi 2:1=9 |
