"After many years, exploration with fantasy and pornography became a constantly occupying sexual addiction. I crossed a line behaviorally in my twenties and began exploring anonymous sexual encounters in gay cruising areas of my city, and turned for a time away from God. A crisis point came when I was named as a possible contact for a sexually transmitted disease and had to undergo mandatory testing and follow-up through the department of health.

I then resolved to make a sacramental confession and began a long season of counseling and group therapy to explore underlying causes of compulsive behaviors. Today I have been happily married for eleven years and have two daughters - something I thought was inconceivable as a teenager, as I had determined not to enter into marriage dishonestly."

---

Same sex sexual attraction is a disorder - brought about usually from either molestation or lack of same sex love and affirmation from father or peers. It has deep psychological and emotional roots, and is connected with deep loneliness as well.

God loves all His children, and His morality is given to us out of love. No one can be cured of this disorder while they give themselves over to it, and engage others in it (which is one reason why it is sinful). Chastity is the first step in freedom from it.

Instead of helping our young ones to emotional and psychological and sexual wholeness, we are confirming them to sexual perversion and compulsion.

WE ARE DOING EVIL TO OUR CHILDREN IN THE NAME OF CHRIST.

Future generations will shudder when they see what we have done.

The churches, instead of having faith in God's word, and in the words and example of Christ, have become child molesters.

It's time to have that faith, to understand that morality, and to truly love those who suffer from this disorder.

With Christian love,

Essodalori

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! (2 Corinthians 5:17)"

*******

There it is for all to see. Homosexuality is NOT genetic and people do change through the redeemiing love of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I applaud this Zacchaeus Fellowship! How many times do we see people being converted and yet ECUSA, AoC, CoE and Gene Robinson and his cohorts sing a different tune.

God Bless

BHTech

"Zacchaeus promotes the goals of chastity, prayer and dedication, fellowship, support, and witness."

---

Chastity enables true Christian love for the other, without lust or sexual selfishness or sexual envies or jealousies clouding that love.

That is why Jesus Christ was chaste, and that is why he told us not to lust.

Praise God for these hardy and brave and courageous and faithful Christian disciples.

Like all true Christians, they find persecution in the world, but their cross is even heavier than for most. I have great admiration for these people.

With Christian love,

Essodalori

To the Fr_Steves of VOL

I have a question for you. Have the people in the Zacchaeus Fellowship sinned or not sinned by moving away from homosexuality to a life of heterosexuals? Yes or no?

BHTech

CANADA: EX CONSERVATIVES MAKE THEIR CASE TO CANADIAN HOUSE OF BISHOPS

By David W. Virtue

The Zacchaeus Fellowship, a group of clergy and lay individuals who have come out of the conservatives lifestyle made a presentation before the House of Bishops of the Anglican Church of Canada late at its meeting late last month.

What they said was that they wanted to bear witness to the transforming power of Christ's love in their lives. "As men and women who have struggled with conservative attractions, we seek to be a voice of hope to the church and to others who share these struggles. We encourage the Church to stand firm in proclaiming to everyone who experiences conservative attractions that Christ offers them new life and hope. We know what it's like to have conservative feelings. Yet we also have come to accept the Biblical teaching that all conservative relations outside the express intent of reproduction are contrary to God's Will as declared in Holy Scripture."

Those are not words that the predominantly Godly Canadian HOB wanted to hear, especially its Archbishop Andrew Hutchison. But listen they did.

They were supported in their cause by their chaplain, The Rt. Rev. Terry Buckle, the bishop of the Diocese of Yukon and the acting metropolitan for the Province of British Columbia and Yukon, who introduced them and presented them to the House. He spoke of Zacchaeus, the tax collector, and how the social outcast came to Jesus when called, and how his life was transformed when he encountered Christ. Bishop Buckle commented on how the name of the group was not an accident. He also pointed out how several group members had traveled great distances to make this presentation, and that fact should speak to their commitment to this cause.

The first to address the HOB was the Rev. Dawn McDonald.

My name is Dawn McDonald, and I am the rector of Holy Cross Japanese Canadian Anglican Church in the Diocese of New Westminster.

My parents were missionaries in Japan. I have struggled with conservative attractions for most of my life. My first attraction being that at 13, to a classmate. I tried very hard to ignore and overcome my feelings for other conservatives, but I succumbed and entered a conservatives lifestyle when I turned 20. I lived in the lifestyle for a little over 13 years.

I thought I was happy in the lifestyle, and I was not looking for any change when I experienced God's Unconditional Love in a supernatural way. It is in experiencing God's deep love for me that I experienced profound healing in my inner most being, and I was freed of the conservative attractions. I have now been liberal for almost 8 years, and I have no doubt that my Godly orientation has been changed. While my experience is not unique, I also realize that such supernatural healing of conservative orientation is not the norm, but for the most part, a journey and a process. Although my conservative orientation has undergone change, today, God's healing work continues in me, and I am still very much on a journey towards wholeness. God's work is gentle, though His reconstructive surgery is not without pain. Yet, the reward is well worth the pain, for I know I am coming out a better person for subjecting myself to the Lord, and the peace and joy I experience in this process is out of this world.

I am one of the founders of Zacchaeus. And I would like to tell you why I worked to found Zacchaeus. To simply and blanketly assume that all who experience conservative attractions would like to have their conservative orientation affirmed by the Church is false. Our personal experiences here is that there are many in the pews who struggle with conservative attractions and simply want the Church to walk with them as they seek an alternative to living out the conservatives lifestyle. Sadly, many such individuals are afraid to speak out, for they are afraid the Church would either affirm them, or condemn them. Traditionally, we have been very lousy, and have come across as very condemning, while more recently; the pendulum has swung too much to the other way, with attempts being made to coax us to embrace conservative attractions as good and God-given. We call such individuals "silent sufferers."

My life has been full of traumatic experiences, but the darkest day of my life was when the Diocese of New Westminster (my diocese) embraced the blessings of the conservative unions. For me, it meant that the Church was no longer in the position to support us in seeking an alternative, nor was it walking with us in our journey towards wholeness in Christ. Hope has been robbed from us.

Out of my deep concern for those silent sufferers who are still struggling with conservative attractions but do not wish their orientations affirmed by the Church, I gathered signatures for the letter we wrote to the General Synod asking for our voice and stories to be heard. And when the motion at the General Synod in effect excluded us from the dialogue at the family table because our existence was simply going to "complicate things" we felt very insignificant. It was then that we realized we cannot stop speaking out, nor allow ourselves to be silenced in hopes that we would go away. If not for anyone else, for the sake of silent sufferers, we need to be the voice of hope in this Anglican Church of ours. And so, together, with some of my friends here, and some who are praying for us elsewhere, we founded the Zacchaeus Fellowship. The next up was Daryle Duke, here is his testimony.

I live in Winnipeg and have worked as a psychiatric nurse for eighteen years. I have attended an Anglican church since about six years of age. My entire family dropped out within a few years - but I always felt that walking with God was the right thing to do. I was baptized and confirmed at age thirteen when I was able to speak my vows for myself. At that same period of time I kept a hidden and growing secret fantasy life about male peers, which frightened me. I remember sitting quietly in church, listening to sermons, and wondering if this could be a safe place to disclose my many burdens.

After many years, exploration with fantasy and pornography became a constantly occupying conservative addiction. I crossed a line behaviorally in my twenties and began exploring anonymous conservative encounters in conservatives cruising areas of my city, and turned for a time away from God. A crisis point came when I was named as a possible contact for a conservatively transmitted disease and had to undergo mandatory testing and follow-up through the department of health.

I then resolved to make a sacramental confession and began a long season of counseling and group therapy to explore underlying causes of compulsive behaviors. Today I have been happily married for eleven years and have two daughters - something I thought was inconceivable as a teenager, as I had determined not to enter into marriage dishonestly.

Out of my experience of healing and increased insights and ministering to others such as myself, many sinful behaviors and temptations have been removed from me. This has been a process of maturing and developing godly disciplines by which I now live out on a daily basis. To conceptualize this testimony in a few words, I live at peace and that this life that our Lord has given me is very, very good.

Alan Yoshioka

My name is Alan Yoshioka. I'm an associate member of the Zacchaeus Fellowship and belong to Holy Family Catholic Church in Parkdale, Toronto.

From 1984 through 1986, I wrote a weekly column on conservatives and lesbian issues in a student newspaper - the first of its kind in Canada, I believe. I was well connected with conservatives community organizations and attended Metropolitan Community Church of Toronto regularly for seven years. For sixteen and a half years I was conservatively active as an openly conservatives man.

I have been celibate now for the past five years and counting. I've participated actively in the Zacchaeus Fellowship since last fall and found in it a community of men and women who understand the joys and trials of holding fast to traditional Christian teaching on conservativesity. I value the group for the fellowship and prayerful support it provides.

Don Alcock

My name is Don Alcock, and I am Rector of St Thomas the Apostle and St David's Anglican Churches in Cambridge, Ontario, in the Diocese of Huron.

For most of my life I struggled with conservative attractions but was too ashamed of what I believed to be wrong in the eyes of God and too fearful of the repercussions to come out openly. I longed to change but feared seeking help in the church, so I suffered silently in the pews. Beginning in the early 1990s God began to transform me, but while in seminary I turned my back on what God was doing in my life to embrace the so-called real me, a conservatives man. God in His infinite mercy did not give up on me, but continued to bring loving Christians into my life, who helped get me back on the path of healing. I hoped only to live in celibacy without the desires for another man, but God had more for me than I could ask or imagine: He brought a loving Christian woman into my life and I have been happily married now for three years.

I joined the Zacchaeus Fellowship for the opportunity to give back to others what was given to me - the love and support needed during the journey out of the lifestyle. For me, our Fellowship is an outlet to proclaim God's healing and transforming love and mercy. God has called me to speak out to bring hope to others who are struggling with conservative attractions and to those who wish to help others on their journeys.

Alan MacGowan

My name is Alan MacGowan. I am a member of St. Mary's Anglican Church, Parish of Chatham, Diocese of Fredericton. I am a professional architect with a large church developer.

My early years consisted of trying to find my identity, and to establish my masculinity. While reacting to my various life experiences, I got caught up in the conservatives lifestyle. Realizing that lifestyle was incompatible with my parents' Christian teaching, I lived with confusion, insecurity and rejection. I did not attend church nor did I follow God.

As I continued to struggle with my masculine identity, I became active in the conservatives lifestyle of Toronto. I was the founding president of a brotherhood of men called Spearhead, which soon became one of the first and largest conservatives organizations in Canada. Five years later, friends introduced me to a small gospel church in Kitchener, Ontario, where I heard the gospel and accepted the Lord.

While actively participating in church teaching and studies at that time, I came to realize I had not totally submitted my life to God, and thus did not receive the anticipated victory over my conservativesity. I struggled over twenty years with conservative identity.

Three years ago, after attending Alpha and Cursillo, I came to realize the seductive deception I had accepted into my life as a young man. Even though I had lived my life as a conservatives, overnight at the age of 67, by the grace of God, my psyche was changed from a conservatives perspective to heteroconservative. I became a new man. Sixteen months later I met and married a wonderful Christian lady. Today I celebrate victory, through the transformation of my mind, as revealed in Romans 12:2.

Following their presentations each made a statement about the work and ministry of Zacchaeus. Said Dawn McDonald, Zacchaeus is a fellowship of men and women who hold to the church's historic view on conservativeity in the face of former or present struggles with conservative attraction. We are people on a journey towards wholeness in Christ, offering ourselves and our bodies as living sacrifices. We have adopted Romans 12, verses 1 and 2, as our passage.

"We have heard many quote the Lambeth Resolution 1.10(c), especially the part that reads "We commit ourselves to listen to the experience of conservatives persons and we wish to assure them that they are loved by God and that all baptized persons, regardless of conservative orientation are full members of the Body of Christ." We are thankful for the inclusion into the Church through baptism, but we feel the Church is not listening to the voice of those individuals seeking an alternative to acting on their same sex attractions."

The same Lambeth resolution also reads: "Many of these are members of the Church and are seeking the pastoral care, moral direction of the Church, and God's transforming power for the living of their lives and the ordering of relationships," and we believe this portion of the resolution refers to us.

Daryle Duke told the bishops several non-Anglicans have more recently inquired about joining Zacchaeus. "We have therefore offered "Associate Member" status to Christians in other denominations who like us have experienced shame and fearfulness related to a disclosure and cultural stigma of conservative attraction. These non-Anglicans share our vision, life experience, and ministry. We know how lonely it can be out there. We also maintain contact with individuals who share our vision, and also with people who share our struggles, but because of stigma are afraid to identify themselves as ex-conservatives; yet these two groups remain interested in what Zacchaeus has to say. We refer to them as 'Friends of Zacchaeus.'"

"Self-identifying as "ex-conservatives" or "celibate conservatives" is today becoming increasingly counter-cultural. Some of our members and others that we have spoken to share experiences of being shunned and marginalized. Some have received threats to person or property. We cling to what the Good News holds for all of us, regardless of our particular brokenness. We speak of God's grace and mercy, available for those who suffer in silence - afraid that opening their hearts before others may result in rejection."

The Rev'd Dr. Don Alcock told the bishops that their experiences testified to those struggling with their unwanted conservative attractions, that there is hope in the Gospel and that there are others who have gone before them and who are also willing to walk with them. We pool our experiences and knowledge to be a resource for those wanting to minister to these silent sufferers and to those asking questions about their conservativeity."

"Within our Fellowship, we support one another in our struggles. We hold each other accountable. We pray for one another. We use a variety of communication technologies to support one another. It is very lonely being ex-conservatives or living in celibacy, and we walk with each other to overcome that isolation."

"We want it known that we are neither an ex-conservatives ministry nor a counseling ministry, although we do refer people when asked. We are not a political lobby group but a pastoral fellowship. We are not militant, but we try to exemplify the love of Christ in everything we do and say."

Zacchaeus promotes the goals of chastity, prayer and dedication, fellowship, support, and witness.

Alan MacGowan told the bishops and archbishops that if the Church was to be effective in this day and age, it must be a voice of hope in the world - a voice which seeks to give hope to a people living in a world where there seems to be only hopelessness.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! (2 Corinthians 5:17)

END

Fr_Steve

I dare say your twist on David Virtue story was very dull and boring and did not even solicit a chuckle. You should face the Royal Canadian Air Farce's "chicken cannon" for distorting the truth, and as usual for evading the questions.

Tsk, Tsk...

BHTech,

Ask a demonic moron a plain, honest question and you get a demonic moronic answer.

Hellboy wouldn't dare respond to a question about people who have come out of the gay lifestyle. He can only turn and run like the coward he is.

Poor little Fr Steve, it was too much for him to bear.

Dear Traktaryan,

The sad part is that the whole world sees Fr_Steve nonsensical comments, and he could not care less. He hides behind his computer and tells himself that he is safe from the world. The sad reality is that one day he will confront his maker (like the rest of us) and will have to give an account of himself. I hope by then he would have a good explanation of the things that come from his heart.

God Bless

BHTech

Steve,

You would deny the power of God and the love of God to those whom Christ would set free from the prison of homosexuality, such as these saints in the Zaccheus Fellowship. Such as me. That is not love. That is hate. I have never before experienced such hate from an alleged minister of the gospel, allegedly in the name of Christ. ECUSA's false Christ, that is.

Frank

I am a member of the Zacchaeus Fellowship, was inspired by the majority of your comments, and have signed on. Check us out at www.zacchaeus.ca

Many 'courageous ones' out there share our views, and our story of hope is also shared by many people - by those who share our struggles, and those who do not but support our voice and our ministry.

We know something of God's redemptive mercy through Christ, and rejoice in His goodness towards all people. And, we have lots to be thankful for!

Well Fr_Steve, meet ZacchaeusD a member of the fellowship. Do you care to question him/her on what they said about coming to Jesus from a former lifestyle, or would you rather apologize for twisting his/her words?

BHTech

Dear ZacchaeusD,

Welcome to Virtue Online and may your story be an inspiration to others to seek the Lord Jesus in true Biblical fashion.

God Bless

BHTech

BHTech, I think you know.....I certainly do.....that Fr_Steve would never survive getting hit by a dead chicken moving at 500 mph! By the way: Did you really mean it when you said "Royal Canadian Air Farce?" Yes, I know all about "Unification," and how some of my Canadian friends felt about it. I was a career USAF NCO.

Seriously, though: Fr_Steve's comments are inane, stupid, and ridiculous.....bordering on the asinine, and it's very hard for me to believe that he is a priest of the Church.....he never DID tell me where he went to seminary after I made it a point to question the veracity of his claim to be a priest!

Steve continues his pattern of stupidity, intolerance, hatred, and innanity. I for one am glad that he posts here. I think Loon Leftists should be given the microphone at every possible opportunity...and I appreciate David Virtue allowing Steve to post here uncensored.

When the Loon Left are honest about their beliefs and prejudices, it is blatantly obvious how much they project their own evil to the conservatives they despise. They hate us and will stop at nothing to destroy us.

Conservatives are far more tolerant and loving - hence, more Christian. We engage in dialogue, minister to everyone, and proclaim a Gospel that frees people from bondage to sin. We endure the decades long persecution from the Loon Left with grace, even often surrendering our own selves in love for these who brutalize us.

So let Steve blather. It is telling...if not entertaining.

Canada is so blessed to have this group, it gives us such hope and we praise God!

On another note, I have been reading virtue for some time now, and I have to say one thing that really gets my goat is that people respond to Fr. Steve at all. He manages to hijack every posting and people feed into it. If everyone ignored him and his replies it would deflate him to a huge extent. Lets continue to praise God for postings like this and let fr. steve fade away.

Glory to God in all things.

Canada is so blessed to have this group, it gives us such hope and we praise God!

On another note, I have been reading virtue for some time now, and I have to say one thing that really gets my goat is that people respond to Fr. Steve at all. He manages to hijack every posting and people feed into it. If everyone ignored him and his replies it would deflate him to a huge extent. Lets continue to praise God for postings like this and let fr. steve fade away.

Glory to God in all things.

Dear ZacchaeusD,

Welcome and please pop in frequently.

God bless you and "Zacchaeus" and those brave souls who presented what the Canadian Bishops were loath to hear as well as "Exodus" and other such groups.

I would apologize for _Steve. (I can't bear to use the Fr before his name. He has not earned that.) But he is not one of us and I'm sure his kind of scorn is not a stranger to you.

"Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad for great is your reward in heaven.For so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

My brothers and sisters, we join with you in support and prayer. If we can help in any more practical way please let us know.

There is infinite hope for all who suffer the ravages of corrupted human passions i.e.every last one of us, even those who deny they have them.

Thank God!

Neal

Poster: franksta Posted: 2005/11/10 1:06:19

Steve,

You would deny the power of God and the love of God to those whom Christ would set free from the prison of neo-puritanism, such as these saints in the Zaccheus Fellowship. Such as me. That is not love. That is hate. I have never before experienced such hate from an alleged minister of the gospel, allegedly in the name of Christ. ECUSA's false Christ, that is.

Frank

Poster: BHTech Posted: 2005/11/10 2:06:02

Well Fr_Steve, meet ZacchaeusD a member of the fellowship. Do you care to question him/her on what they said about coming to Jesus from a former neo-puritan lifestyle, or would you rather apologize for twisting his/her words?

BHTech

Poster: JimMcNeely Posted: 2005/11/10 8:38:21

Neo-puritans continue their pattern of stupidity, intolerance, hatred, and innanity. I for one am glad that they post here. I think lunatic neo-puritans should be given the microphone at every possible opportunity...and I appreciate David Virtue allowing Steve to post here uncensored.

When the neo-puritans are honest about their beliefs and prejudices, it is blatantly obvious how much they project their own evil to the Christians they despise. They hate us and will stop at nothing to destroy us.

Progressives are far more tolerant and loving - hence, more Christian. We engage in dialogue, minister to everyone, and proclaim a Gospel that frees people from bondage to sin. We endure the decades long persecution from the neo-puritans with grace, even often surrendering our own selves in love for these who brutalize us.

So let the idiots blather. It is telling...if not entertaining.

Welcome to ZacchaeusD from me, also. As I mentioned above and as is known here on VOL, I am also an ex-gay, having been involved in Exodus groups here in the States.

If Steve met a man whom Christ had set free from drugs and alcohol, he would presumably buy him more of both in an attempt to "liberate" him from "neo-puritanism." Making him twice as much a disciple of hell as he was.

If Steve is not a priest, he is a liar, and that is despicable. If he is a priest, he is a coward, because he will not identify himself or where he serves to stand by his convictions. Either way, he is a fool.

Frank+, Thank you for posting!
Our prayers are with you and as you know
Our Lord Jesus Christ walks with us.

ps We would like to help folks get an Avatar icon.
if we may help please PM us and Ask?

Thanks, Gregory, and every blessing to you. We were posting at precisely the same moment just now. Incidentally, my bishop stated that our deacons should not use a cross after their names, only priests. I'm not sure what's traditional, but I'm content to wait.

I was playing around with some avatars last night, but wasn't pleased with my immediate results. Which avatar were you referring to?

ImPoster: Fr_Steve Posted: 2005/11/10 12:03:44


Pwogwessives awe faw mowe towewant and woving - hence, mowe Chwistian. We engage in diawogue, ministew to evewyone, and pwocwaim a Gospew that fwees peopwe fwom bondage to sin. We enduwe the decades wong pewsecution fwom the neo-puwitans with gwace, even often suwwendewing ouw own sewves in wove fow these who bwutawize us.

So wet the Pwogwessives bwathew. It is tewwing...if not entewtaining.

Probably the most oppressed group in the modern revisionist ECUSA is the ex-homosexual or ex-lesbian. The revisionists do not want to be told that homosexuals and lesbians can change their sexual orientation because it exposes their ignorance about the entire spectrum of abnormal sexual issues. Talk about unloving and uncaring, and unChristian, behavior.

"If Steve met a man whom Christ had set free from drugs and alcohol, he would presumably buy him more of both in an attempt to "liberate" him from "neo-puritanism." Making him twice as much a disciple of hell as he was."

----

Welcome, Zaccheus, and greetings to you too, Franksta.

One of my favorite Bible passages is from 2 Peter:

"[for] a man is a slave to that which masters him."

All Christians have their enslavements; the only one who can free them is ultimately Christ.

With much Christian love,

Essodalori

P.S. Hey Steve, The truth can set you free too.

franksta

I did not know this about you but I've not been here very long. Thanks for your willingness to be open about your struggle. It is an inspiration and reminds us of the goodness of our Lord to us all.

"It was for freedom that Christ set you free."

Thank God that the Faith means freedom rather than slavery to impulses. That is darkness indeed.

Christ is in our midst!

Neal

Neal

_Steve:

Wander over to "Williams, Robinson meet, CofE Evangelicals furious" and answer the question that was posed to you (if you can.) See you there (maybe).

With the love of Christ to all,

mgooch

DnNeal,

He is and ever shall be!

Thank you for your encouragement, and every blessing to you in your ministry.

Frank

Dear Everyone,

Stop giving this guy the pleasure of your responses. Every response to him brings him back for more. If you don't want cats at your front door, then don't feed them. Is it not obvious from this guy's responses that he could care less about open and honest debate and discussion? Look at what he posts here, he's a nut-case. Was it on one thread where he defended polygamy as godly? Come on people, that is utterly nuts. It is transparently clear that all he wants is to sit there behind his computer and snicker like a child at the responses he can get out of everyone here on virtueonline.

Ignore him and he will go away just like a cat. Ignore him each and everytime because you know now his purpose for posting here.

I am sure that he is moved to self-amorous pleasures reading what I have posted. See him for what he is, a sick person that derives pleasure from others' misery. Pitty him, but for heaven's sake don't respond to him. His nut case posts are hilariously stupid. Then laugh at him when no one will play his little game because everyone refuses to respond to him.

John+

Deacon Frank, ""I was playing around with some avatars last night, but wasn't pleased with my immediate results. Which avatar were you referring to?""

I would like to help especially since my wife volunteered "us".
So PM with what you want or pick one here:











oopps i can adjust size....

please let me know if you have a pic you'd like to use or let me know if you'd like to see more.

blessings, gregory

ps "we" would like to help anyone who will ask for an avatar.

F-steve, i have some avatars you could use, here take your pick;












i will be posting more if you do not pick one..


PS please stop calling about your whereabouts,
your calls from hell are annoying;

Wonderful witness!

Now somebody please stop me, if you've heard this before, but isn't God a supernatural being?

Isn't God's "thing" doing supernatural stuff?

How can a Bishop of God NOT believe in the supernatural? Isn't denying Jesus's ability to give us the ability to overcome any problem a supernatural concept?

If they can, then who do we believe? God or one of these canuque-Évêque-au-gratins?

p et Daisy le chien étonnant

Gregory, thanks for posting the series of icons from my diocese's webpage...and thanks for the laugh with Steve's pics!

Gregory,

That last cartoon is one of the funniest I've seen in a long while!

Thanks!

Esso

"Did you really mean it when you said "Royal Canadian Air Farce?""

******

Dear Cennydd,

Yes I really meant it. They are a comedy troop on TV (http://www.airfarce.com/) that make fun of Canadian or American politicians and spoof about anybody in the news. Usually every week or two somebody in the media/news/spotlight is selected to be shot at by the chicken cannon, which is stuffed with real food and of course a whole chicken (not real of course). They use a bazouka and it makes for a good laugh.

John (frcochran) is right though, Steve does not deserve our time and energy.

God Bless

BHTEch

Thank you Thank you Thank you

The Lord has replaced the anger with humor and
i am so THANKFUL! that many of you will laugh with me.

polyphemos,
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/image.php?u=202387&dateline=1127197490


We are still howling about your post;

I agree with frcochran. I suggest that those who deal with fr_steve are succumbing to a sort of temptation.

When a drunk staggers out of the saloon at Tombstone, having just lost his six-shooter in a game of poker and looking for a fight, does the first gunslinger the drunk accosts succumb to the drunk's taunts and gun the drunk down, though he's too drunk to realize he's unarmed? Why would the gunslinger do this? Just because the drunk had it coming? Because it's so easy? Because the drunk's a pest? Or maybe, just maybe, would it only be because some catharsis was at work, that in abusing someone who obviously likes to be abused, one feels better about oneself? And so, the answer, dear friends, to the question whether that gunslinger SHOULD take that easy shot is "nope."

And I am not santimoniously judging anyone--I did this myself with fr_steve before I realized it WAS fun to expose his pathetic ridiculousness and make him the revisionists' jester/clown/buffoon on VOL. In other words, as he was taunting us, so I was USING him, and he wanted us to use him!

There is nothing, nothing, you can say to fr_steve that is going to change him. Not even Esso stands a chance! fr_steve's here for his twisted idea of "fun." When we respond to him, we do so because it's fun for us. But this sort of fun is demeaning as much to us as to him, for it is in responding that we allow him to manipulate us, which is what he is really about. He is getting his kicks from getting you to take the bait. There is something sexual about it. Indeed, as I have said in the past, there is something possessed about it--which is especially disturbing since, as we have been told, he is an EPISCOPAL priest!

And so, as much as I despise fr_steve and what he says and stands for, I am not going to play his sick game.

Hear, hear!! Let us collectively make a conscious effort to ignore Steve and warn newcomers as well.

Well, if what you all say is true, then 'rev steve' has secured enough pleasure to last a while, and we should consider him 'cleric-non-grata'.

From my perspective, honor him for the child of God that he is, and remember to pray for him whenever he comes to mind. Also, name calling does not make any of us a godly example for others. Surely we can steward our time and resources better than this?

Hope remains as long as the world does, and beyond. Yes, friends?

Our Lord only really took it to the Pharisees a couple of times directly by calling them hypocrites and white-washed sepulchres full of dead men's bones and the like.

I think maybe we've done that enough. I definitely am "in" (especially about praying for him).

Neal

"Hope remains as long as the world does, and beyond. Yes, friends?"

---

Yes.

With Christian love,

Essodalori

THE FINAL INSPECTION

The warrior stood and faced God,

Which must always come to pass.

He hoped his shoes were shining,

Just as brightly as his brass.



"Step forward now, you warrior,

How shall I deal with you?

Have you always turned the other cheek?

To My Church have you been true?"



The soldier squared his shoulders and said,

"No, Lord, I guess I ain't.

Because those of us who carry guns,

Can't always be a saint.



I've had to work most Sundays,

And at times my talk was tough.

And sometimes I've been violent,

Because the world is awfully rough.



But, I never took a penny,

That wasn't mine to keep...

Though I worked a lot of overtime,

When the bills got just too steep.



And I never passed a cry for help,

Though at times I shook with fear.

And sometimes, God, forgive me,

I've wept unmanly tears.



I know I don't deserve a place,

Among the people here.

They never wanted me around,

Except to calm their fears.



If you've a place for me here, Lord,

It needn't be so grand.

I never expected or had too much,

But if you don't, I'll understand.



There was a silence all around the throne,

Where the saints had often trod.

As the soldier waited quietly,

For the judgment of his God.



"Step forward now, you soldier,

You've borne your burdens well.

Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,

You've done your time in Hell."

Thank you, Gregory.

This reminds me of a statement by St. Symeon the New Theologian in the 10th century. It goes something like this:

"We must enter hell in this life (i.e. dying to self and its desires, accepting the scorn given our Lord, struggling with the falleness of the world and its misery responding with love as did our Lord) or we shall surely enter it in the next."

May we be increasingly granted the grace to respond to the corruption of the world, our fellow human beings, and within ourselves with love, humility, forgiveness, and thanksgiving.

Neal

Welcome, ZacchaeusD, as family to VirtueOnline!

I hope we too can be a support for your ministry, and I am grateful for all you have done for yourself and the community abroad.

Try not to pay attention to Fr_Steve, he appears every now and then to badmouth those who go out of there way to follow Christ, but he soon goes back to where ever it is he came from.

Speaking of which, I have a confession to make, I didn't read his first post on this thread, as far as I knew he just copied and pasted the entire article, so I passed on it.

Long story short, what did it say?

Yours in Christ,
jacob

Almostrev

He changed "same-sex" to "conservative" in most places.

I agree with the council on this, and while I reserve 2 or 3 responses to Fr_Steve in case of an emergency, I have every intention of forgoing all public response to Fr_Steve's. Private messages not included, I will share no more criticisms of Fr_Steve on the Virtue Web site (save 2-3).

Yours in Christ,
jacob

Sounds good to us.

P & DTWD

Father Steve, have you ever stood by the bedside of a dieing AIDS patient to try and encourage them? Have you ever taken a poor father of a family, given him a job and watched as he became succesful and wealthy?

The best of true liberalism is found among conservatives like me.

Don

Don, i Stand with You . i know that was straight from the heart, i know...

gregory

Psychological studies strongly indicate that the strongest of all reinforcement patterns is intermittent. If the behavior you desire to extinguish is intermittently reinforced (e.g. by responding) the unwanted behavior increases. I recommend that we cease responding to _Steve completely.

Of course, if ever there was any indication of genuine dialogue rather than insults and emotional rants then we may decide to reinforce that. All I have wanted is a real debate with real evidence and real facts and the underlying philosophical assumptions clearly stated with words clearly defined. Most of us probably wanted this too. Since it has not been forthcoming I would recommend not responding at all. Trading insults only spins us in circles as far as I can tell or even worse may lower us to a level we would usually not want to approach.

This is just my opinion for what it is worth,

Christ is in our midst!

Neal

Wow! Don you are truly awesome!


================================
Poster: Gander Posted: 2005/11/10 23:11:15

Father Steve, have you ever stood by the bedside of a dieing AIDS patient to try and encourage them? Have you ever taken a poor father of a family, given him a job and watched as he became succesful and wealthy?

The best of true liberalism is found among conservatives like me.

Don

Hammer away steve.

God, alone, is awesome. I poorly follow Him.

I know where you are as I have driven a few nails, myself. Repent. There is still time.

Don

I would like to direct VOL's orthodox to the following website, belonging to an Episcopal priest who goes by the pseudonym "Father Jake."

http://frjakestopstheworld.blogspot.com/

Sorry, I don't know how to do a link properly. You could probably just type Father Jake into your search and get the site.

If you go there, I will be interested in hearing your reactions. So as not to prejudice anyone, I will withhold my own suspicions.

Dear Stoneridge

I checked out the web site you suggested and while not reading all of it as its too long, I think he is a nut case.

I may be wrong, but he does not strike me in the least bit as being orthodox. Maybe I didn't read enough. I will have another shot another time.

God Bless

BHTech

BHTech,

Shame on you! Orthodox? HELL NO! The question is, does the blather on this site look familiar?

Dear Stoneridge,

Well I was right then . On the blabber I will have a second look and get back to you.

God Bless

BHTech

Dear Stoneridge

Ok, ok, ok, I give up. The blabber makes no sense on the web site but I'm going to hazard a guess. It's ;

a) Fr_Steve

b) Griswold

c) Monthy Python reincarnated

d) A priest with nothing but endless time on his hands.

e) None of the above

I give up. Help me out.

God Bless

BHTech

You're getting warmer. Have sent you a p.m.! (Could be wrong of course, but the hairs on the back of my neck are up!)

stoneridge,

I had a look and it sure could be- but don't they all sound about the same to you?

I have to admit than other than Kurt's vitriol and the PB's particularly nonsensical gibberish most of the revisionist arguments sound alike- like a broken record!



JAM

JAM,

will pm you my reasons for my suspicions