Exclusives : THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD
THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD
Million dollar home, other expenditures mark bishop's early tenure
Special Report
By David W. Virtue
http://www.virtueonline.org
JACKSONVILLE, FL (8/25/2005)--The Bishop of Florida, the Rt. Rev. Samuel Johnson Howard, barely 18 months into his new job, has been raising and spending tens of thousands of dollars, including the purchase of a million dollar home for him and his wife.
Several sources told VirtueOnline that the bishop was under pressure from his wife who demanded a fancy home, country club memberships and more, after living in New York City where Howard was a priest at Trinity Wall Street (the richest church in the world).
The purchase of a home valued at more than $1 million dollars was done with significant amounts of the monies obtained from private sources through an alleged housing trust. The initial purchase price was $850,000 with an additional $105,000 spent for improvements. The diocese placed no lien on the home for the money.
Howard's financial package and total compensation package is $206,237.00, with a baseline salary of $86,000; a housing allowance of $39,291.00; health $16,500.00, Pension $22,704; and travel of $20,000. He leases a late model Cadillac for up $12,000 a year making him one of the highest paid bishops in Province IV. The result was a cut in missions.
VirtueOnline has obtained documents outlining the purchase of a primary residence at 3138 Waltham Square, Jacksonville, a wealthy enclave in the county of Duval, with a mortgage of $450,000 between the Howard's and EverBank and an additional $175,000 purchase money balloon mortgage between the Bishop, his wife and the Diocese.
His housing did not flow through the books, a diocesan source told VirtueOnline. The diocese was supposed to loan him up to $100,000 as a down payment towards the house, and the Diocese was supposed to be a part owner on a second mortgage, VirtueOnline was told. "It all ran through Fred Isaac, the chancellor of the diocese' office," said the source.
"Fred went out and solicited varied moneyed people in the diocese and got a lot of money donated. It is likely that these "monied donors are not the only source. Monies have trailed in through 815 and Trinity Wall Street at least some of which goes unaccounted for. Could Howard have been bought out? It is an unanswered question. None of that money came into the office but was funneled through Isaac's office," said the source.
Howard's predecessor, Bishop Stephen Jecko lived in a modest home he purchased for $106,000 in San Pablo, Jacksonville in 1993 and sold nine years later in 2004 for $175,000. He and his wife moved to Amelia Island and built a new home. He now assists Bishop James Stanton in the Diocese of Dallas. The Jecko's have sold their Amelia Island home and moved to Dallas.
The notice of the trust agreement for Howard's home was not recorded until October 21 2004, and the referenced trust is dated September 21, 2004 while the deed and mortgages were executed in May, 2004.
An informal volunteer lawyer group is reviewing these documents now to determine if there are any special terms to address what everyone fears to be the true deal, and to consider the legal effect on the mortgages of the later recorded trust agreement. "We really need to see the underlying trust agreement to complete the analysis," an attorney told VirtueOnline. The problem is no one seems to ever have seen any documentation of this "trust agreement", including those on the immediate staff of the diocese.
It appears that at the time of closing there was no intention for the Howard's to hold a portion of the ownership interest in trust for the Diocese which meant that they held a 100% ownership interest, and that the trust in favor of the Diocese was created later to address the questions raised when word of the transaction leaked out. At that time it appears the diocese brought $175,000 to the closing table, hence the mortgage back to the Diocese, with no agreement in place at that time for the Diocese to have any legal interest in the home with most people presuming that this debt will be forgiven over time, said the source. No one is aware of the Howard's having made any payment on the diocesan mortgage during the past 18 months.
While there is no evidence of actual impropriety, it is the expectation that all bishops should avoid even the appearance of impropriety, and the acceptance of such a lavish gift at the outset (and in the midst of serious moral and theological conflict in the Episcopal Church) makes him vulnerable to suspicion that he is beholden to those who both provided the down payment and those who are responsible for the ongoing debt service.
Furthermore there is no agreement requiring the Bishop serve for any specified period in order to keep the gift, so the presumption is that it was an outright gift. The only thing that mitigates against that is an after-the-fact trust agreement (that no one has seen) which imposes some restrictions on him, said the source.
The source told VirtueOnline that when he first came into the diocese as Bishop Coadjutor Howard demanded a bigger portion of the budget and wanted to bring his administrative assistant Paul Van Brunt with him from Trinity Wall Street. He was told no. He was then allowed in and is now receiving a package of between $50,000 and $60,000 with a new title as Communications Director and Youth Director.
Pete Woodward who was then on the Finance Committee said that Van Brunt was granted an unapproved salary increase of 60% within 6-8 months of his arrival. It was never approved by any diocesan sub-structure. Kurt Dunkle Canon to the Ordinary and fresh out of seminary is now getting close to a $100,000 package and has never served a single day of his life as a parish priest.
A source told VirtueOnline that Dunkle was brought in because he had money and connections. "He just came in and took the office over."
Another employee of Howard's is Gay Ann Silver also from Trinity Wall Street with the title Archdeacon for Ministry. Her package is said to be in the vicinity of $100,000. She has been there less than a year.
VirtueOnline has learned that Howard regularly runs up monthly American Express expense bills of between $8,000 and $10,000. When Howard first became bishop he brought in a consultant by the name of Maria Campbell whom he paid $39,000 as a single fee to redo the diocese. She was the former treasurer of the Diocese of Alabama and CEO at Trinity Church, Wall Street, Howard's previous parish before coming to Florida.
A source told VirtueOnline that the ONLY recommendation coming forth from the $39,000 consultant was to fire the 'treasurer" -- Becky Peeples. Howard had been orchestrating a way to remove the treasurer long before Maria Campbell came in and everyone was aware of it. The current diocesan treasurer is a volunteer layman who is not on staff.
"He has powerful people in Jacksonville with deep pockets who feed his discretionary account to the tune of $10,000 a month. Part of that money goes to Howard and part of it to Isaac's office," said another source.
In a letter, retired Bishop Stephen Jecko wrote to Isaac's in October 2004 about the new bishop's compensation package and cites a promissory note in the amount of $100,000, at 3.29% interest that was executed as part of Bishop Howard's package for the purpose of purchasing a home "This was never approved of by me and the Finance and Investment Committee," wrote Jecko.
"You need to know that this is the first I've ever heard of such a loan. I did not know of it, and I certainly didn't approve it." Jecko was highly critical of the package given to Howard and said so in the letter to Isaac. The bishop shared his concerns with two lay members who also showed concern about Howard's forthcoming package. "G. would ask me questions from time to time about what was appropriate or "in range." I remember indicating in response to G that it was not unheard of for a diocese (or a parish church) to help invest in new homes for the clergy in an equitable arrangement for which both parties come out winners."
Bishop Jecko went on to criticize the new bishop's housing needs and said this: "This is for the provision of "normal" housing. I do not consider an $850,000 house (plus renovations of $105,000) to be "normal" housing, even for a bishop," he wrote.
Jecko said he objected to his name being used publicly to indicate that he approved this deal when he knew nothing about it.
In a letter to Fred Isaac, the diocesan chancellor, Jecko wrote: "I do not wish in any way to be connected to this transaction, and your letter seems an attempt to calm the folks down by dropping my name in connection with the deal. Why is my name suddenly so important? I want you to find a way to publicly remove my name from this issue at least with everyone who got your letter, so that I won't have to find other public ways to distance myself from this matter."
Another source said that Isaac implicated Jecko in writing and that Jecko requested Isaac retract his written statement implicating Jecko in the housing transaction, but Isaac refused to do so.
Said a former priest in the Diocese of Florida, "Your readers need to know that it is the people of the diocese (including the widow's and their precious mites) who are paying for this house, not the Howard's, there is no way his salary could cover the mortgage even if his compensation package could pay the mortgage, who ever agreed to this and that kind of compensation."
Bishop Howard is also starting to play hardball with parishes who don't cough up their full assessment. One of the larger Network churches in the Diocese of Florida, All Soul's Jacksonville, resolved to send 9% of its 10% asking to the Diocese of Florida and to redirect the additional 1% to the Anglican Communion Network. This was in 2004.
When All Soul's sent their 9%, Bishop Howard returned the check because it did not, in his mind comply with the letter of the diocesan resolution, i.e., the Network was not a valid choice for their 1%, even though they were supporting the diocesan budget with their 9 %. (The Diocese of Florida has retained 9% of the 10% assessment with the 1% to be directed either to the ECUSA or to missionary work outside of the diocese.)
About five years ago, diocesan convention resolved to change it to 10% for all congregations, hoping that every congregation would actually tithe the diocese would have more than enough money. At the special diocesan convention in the fall of 2003, it was resolved that congregations would continue to give 10% to the diocese but that, given the results of General Convention , a congregation could designate that 1% of the 10% could go either to either ECISA or to certain orthodox non-ECUSA missionary work as selected by Diocesan Council.) "The truth is Bishop Howard wants it all. All money is to go through him with no local options," said a source.
When the Rev. Neil Lehbar rector, Church of the Redeemer, Jacksonville, stood up and asked when his church and the others who were withholding funds from the diocese would be "put on notice." Howard replied: "You are already on notice."
More recently Howard refused to allow the 2,000-member orthodox parish of St. John's Tallahassee to obtain a loan to finance organ renovations because they did not pay the 10% of their budget the bishop was hoping for. They pledged about $120,000, with another $100,000 going to diocesan programs or schools, but this did not apparently satisfy the bishop. The parish has had a long established financial agreement with Capital City Bank. On June 30, the Canon to the Ordinary faxed a letter to the bank, with copies to the Rector, advising the bank that a "Notice Limiting Future Advances" signed by Bishop Howard had been filed in the public records of Leon County."
Seven orthodox priests in his diocese have requested alternative pastoral oversight but have been told that the bishop will only entertain DEPO and not AEO. Dunkle blasted their actions as political. The seven parishes have appealed to the Archbishop of Canterbury's Panel of Reference.
END
VIRTUEONLINE wrote to Bishop Howard with the following questions:
1. What was the cash payment and what were the sources including your own funds, if any did you bring to the closing table at the time you bought your million dollar home? In additional to yourself, who is paying for the mortgage and utilities and maintenance?
2. I understand that the purchase of a home valued at more than $1 million dollars was done with significant amounts of the monies obtained from private sources through an alleged housing trust. Is this true? Who controls the trust? The Diocese? Fred Isaac? Other?
3. The initial purchase price was $850,000 with an additional $150,000 spent for improvements. Did the diocese place a lien on the money for the home, that, in the event you sell they get their portion back? Is there any documentation of this agreement? Where is the written agreement?
4. Did anyone else other than you approve the sale of a parcel of land near Beach Blvd.? I understand it was recently sold mortgage free by yourself for $535,000 to Victory Lutheran Church this property? Did it ever pass through the Standing Committee, Council, or Budget and Finance Committee?
5. If so has the money ever been entered into Diocesan records? And if so, how has the money been designated? for the bishop? for mission? for ECUSA support? If NOT, where is the money and who is controlling it or determining its use? Who approved?
6. Why is your financial package a closely guarded secret? A line item in the budget says suggests it is over $250,000. Please explain an unspecified line item in the Diocesan Budget equal to $250,000.
7. VirtueOnline has learned that you regularly run up monthly American Express expense bills of between $8,000 and $10,000. Would you please confirm or deny this? VirtueOnline would like a confirmation to your answer?
8. Who audited the Diocese of Florida for 2004? Who audited your accounts? Were they ever audited? Was it a group from New York or a group from Isaac's office? Has the audit findings ever been reviewed by Standing Committee, Diocesan Council and/or Budget and Finance Committee?
9. Do you have and make use of a discretionary fund? Who has access to, monitors and/or audits your discretionary fund to ensure that your use of it is in compliance with Diocese of Florida policy? Do discretionary funds float through the Diocese or only through Fred Isaac? It is rumored that you receive upwards of $10,000 per month for discretionary use? Who is accounting for receipt of such funds?
10. It has been said that you are receiving substantial funds from outside sources that are never passing through the Diocese. It has also been reported that monies have been received from 815, from Trinity Wall Street and from wealthy individuals from both within and outside of Florida. How are these monies being channeled?
11. You have explained to the diocese that the reason for purchasing such a substantial home was so that your home could accommodate gatherings of the clergy on more informal basis. How many such gatherings have you have in your home during the past 18 months?
I await your responses.
Sincerely,
David W. Virtue DD
www.virtueonline.org
BISHOP HOWARD RESPONDS TO VIRTUEONLINE'S QUESTIONS
August 21, 2005
Dear Mr. Virtue:
You have asked some questions about our diocesan finances. The bishop asked that we, as President of the Standing Committee and Vice Chairman of Diocesan Council, respond to many of your questions. We ask that you include the totality of this letter in whatever article you write.
About the bishop's home, each of our committees - together with the Finance Committee - has reviewed all the issues surrounding the episcopal residence. We feel very fortunate that there were generous donors to fund this new asset for the diocese. Our share, approximately 42%, will continue to be an asset for the diocese for decades to come, all without any further financial contribution for acquisition, maintenance, or operation (i.e. utilities, ad valorem taxes, etc.) from the diocese. The bishop's share of the home (approximately 58%) was fully funded by him and he has full ownership of that share, together with upkeep and tax responsibility for his share and the diocesan share. We have always viewed this as a very good deal for the diocese.
Regarding the sale of property to the Victory Lutheran Church, this transaction was entered into by the previous bishop, Steven Jecko. To the best of our knowledge, prior committees approved all the sale details. While the diocese never likes to sell usable property, we understand Bishop Jecko felt this was surplus and not suitable for an Episcopal congregation. We do, however, look forward to the use of the proceeds for congregational development in the diocese. Bishop Howard had no part in the decisions about sale of this land.
Your question about the bishop's financial package is curious. There is no "unspecified line item of $250,000" in the diocesan budget. The bishop's salary and benefits (cash compensation, health insurance, pension, car allowance, etc.) are clearly labeled as such in the budget. All of the other diocesan staff positions are similarly listed. This is the same budget which was prepared by the Budget Committee, approved by Diocesan Council, and ratified by the entire Diocesan Convention. So, we are unable to respond to your question about "closely guarded secrets."
You also ask questions about expenses and audit. All income and expenses, whether a part of the general diocesan budget or not, are audited on an annual basis by a Jacksonville accounting firm. This CPA firm works for the Diocesan Council, the body which has canonical responsibility over the accounts of the diocese and the responsibility for the annual audit. An audit has been done each year with the audit for 2004 now underway for the diocese, Camp Weed, and The Episcopal Foundation.
Finally, we are not aware that the diocese receives any funds which do not pass through the diocese. Nor are we aware of any funds from "815 or Trinity Wall Street." If you know better, tell us quickly; we want to acknowledge all gifts!
We do, however, count on the generosity of all sorts of individuals within (and sometimes outside of) the diocese. Recently, we broke ground on the McCarty/Snell Youth Pavilion at Camp Weed, our diocesan retreat camp. This facility, together with the new camper cabin, 14 new guest rooms, and the Varn Dining Room, are all being provided by the generosity of many congregations in the diocese, as well as wealthy and not-so-wealthy individuals in the diocese. We heartily hope all of this generosity continues!
I hope this answers many of your questions.
Faithfully,
The Very Rev. Edward Harrison, President, Standing Committee
Ms. Lenora Gregory, Vice Chairman, Diocesan Council
END
The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.
| Poster | Thread |
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| rpearse | Posted: 2005/8/25 16:04 Updated: 2005/8/25 16:04 |
Quite a regular   Joined: 2004/4/24 From: Posts: 50 |
 Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARDThis is a troubling report, in many respects.
I think those who contribute are entitled to ask: Is the house a diocesan investment, or a residence? If it is the former, why is the bishop personally living it? Is he the best paying tenant? If it is the latter, why does the Bishop of Florida need such a residence (perhaps he does, for legitimate reasons -- but if so, why?) All the best, Roger Pearse |
| JimMcNeely | Posted: 2005/8/25 16:09 Updated: 2005/8/25 16:09 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2004/4/7 From: Posts: 699 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD All of this reminds me of the WorldCom CEO's fancy birthday party on a remote (but exotic) Mediteranean island. While Evers was partying into the night with booze, food, and near-naked women, the stockholders and employees of Worldcom were about to lose billions of dollars.
Howard is not the CEO of a for-profit business - he is the spiritual father of a non-profit diocese. These unbelievable expenses are excessive in any regime, but even more so given the time of financial lack of the diocese. I do not believe there is anything illegal here (at least at first glance.) But the morality of extracting so much money for such extravagence must make the early church fathers roll in the their graves. |
| mathman | Posted: 2005/8/25 16:12 Updated: 2005/8/25 16:14 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Rockville, MD Posts: 1064 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Follow the money.
In this case, large bags of money. My goodness! It puts me in mind of a satirical song from years ago: "Will Jesus wear a Rolex on his television evangelism show?" Apparently heresy comes at a price. A steep price. A grande luxe price. Wow. No wonder His Moneybags Howard is demanding total 10% tithes and total unquestioning obedience from his minions in Florida. This lifestyle apparently takes a lot of support. As a recently retired teacher from Washington, DC, I recall vividly the magnificent lifestyle of our late Union President, Ms Barbara Bullock. She was required by her position (or so she claimed) to put on a good front. So she did so, at the cost of $5,000,000 of teacher union dues. She has gone to jail. This mysterious audit, now... Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Inquiring minds want to know. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/25 16:31 Updated: 2005/8/25 16:41 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD What would motivate persons to make contributions earmarked for a bishop's residence? Sounds more like unseemly politics than religion to me.
And I would also be curious to know whether the Bishop himself knows the identities of the private donors who have so "honored" him with their largess. Were they ECUSA members or persons with some other interest in the ECUSA and its policies, its leadership or this particular Bishop's leadership? So, I agree, "Follow the money." Will it lead to certain special interests desirous of enhanced access and influence? To what end? Or is this all ingenuous Christian generosity (doesn't seem to me to qualify as charity)? |
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| Festivus | Posted: 2005/8/25 16:49 Updated: 2005/8/25 16:49 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/12/2 From: Earth Posts: 240 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Actually there is some really good news. I looked up the online porperty records, and the Bishop and his wife are listed as primary and secondary owners of record. I thought that a bit odd, as vested mortage holders are usually listed as secondary. So i searched the county records for any admendments to the deed, property, etc. Nothing came up. THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT FOR THIS DIOCESE TO HAVE RIGHT TO A PROPERTY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE TITLE OR DOMAIN. THE FLORIDA 7 SHOULD REST EASY. IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE DIOCESE TO LAY CLAIM AS SUCH, THEN THE FLORIDA 7 CHURCHS SHOULD BE ALSO BE ACCORDED THE SAME STANDING IN REGARDS TO THEIR PARISHES.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/25 16:53 Updated: 2005/8/25 16:56 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD “September 26th, 2001
* * * The affluence of nations such as our own stands in stark contrast to other parts of the world wracked by the crushing poverty which causes the death of 6,000 children in the course of a morning. * * * Let us therefore wage reconciliation. Let us offer our gifts for the carrying out of God's ongoing work of reconciliation, healing and making all things new. To this we pledge ourselves and call our church. The Most Reverend Frank T. Griswold XXV Presiding Bishop and Primate The Episcopal Church, USA” _____ How, pray, does one "reconcile" a million-dollar mansion with this pronouncement? |
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| warmac9999 | Posted: 2005/8/25 17:08 Updated: 2005/8/25 17:08 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD One of the things that is seldom discussed on this website is the financial influence of the homosexual and lesbian communities. We all know that they scream and whine well to advocate for their perversity. However, many homosexuals and lesbians have a lot of discretionary money because they don't have any real commitment to a family. In addition, particularly in Florida, there are a lot of wealthy liberal North Eastern retirees trying to buy their way into heaven by supporting moral relativism and politically correct religion.
It should be no surprise that Howard has been able to keep the money flowing while the church bleeds attendees. I think that you will find a similar situation in many liberally dominated ECUSA diocese. Well healed churches can supplement the loss of attendees and young families by arm twisting the wealthy liberals. Down the line, however, even a Bill Gates has his monetary limits - and if he is the only one left in church, then the ECUSA is effectively defunct.  |
| Alabama | Posted: 2005/8/25 17:41 Updated: 2005/8/25 17:41 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2004/4/12 From: Posts: 68 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD "We have always viewed this as a very good deal for the diocese."
Now I understand. It is a good deal for the Diocese to purchase a minority, non-liquid share in Florida residential real estate that is likely mortgaged to support other debt. Since it is such a good deal, I assume they will make other, similar investments. |
| MarkFL | Posted: 2005/8/25 17:45 Updated: 2005/8/25 18:02 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2005/5/23 From: Posts: 18 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Is this Virtue online or Rather online?
Anonymous diocesan sources, anonymous lawyers, anonymous former clergy, quotes from a letter +Jecko wrote over a year ago. I wonder if this story could have been written to somehow turn up the heat on Bishop Howard during this debate of AEO vs. DEPO? Further, St. John’s Tallahassee was not stopped from buying a new organ, it was installed last July (http://www.saint-john.org/music/). They were looking for different financing options because due to Fr. Eric’s actions there has been a shortfall in contributions. There is also a group of conservative and orthodox within St. John’s that has held open meetings questioning Fr. Eric’s actions in the context of the current troubles. There are six not seven parishes that have requested AEO (interestingly though on the web site of one, the rector characterizes the request as one for DEPO http://www.amazingrace.org/lettertochurch.htm). The seventh rector was an associate who has since the letter taken early retirement. Mr. Virtue, should you want to be taken seriously as a source for news 1) site your sources, 2) get your facts straight. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/8/25 17:49 Updated: 2005/8/25 17:49 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD No Christian bishop should be living in a $1 million home.
With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/25 18:17 Updated: 2005/8/25 18:18 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Several sources told VirtueOnline that the bishop was under pressure from his wife who demanded a fancy home, country club memberships and more, after living in New York City where Howard was a priest at Trinity Wall Street (the richest church in the world).
For all the problems the RC church has (i.e., "The Scandal") at least their clerics don't have to put up with social climbing wives. (And she isn't the first one I have heard about being "status conscience" (e.g., greedy)) And one wonders why the Roman clerics don't have wives! Spreading the Gospel is where its at - not million dollar homes. Even Billy Graham keeps it simple. People, take your money and flee!! |
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| OtisPage | Posted: 2005/8/25 18:37 Updated: 2005/8/25 18:37 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 667 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD The adage, “The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys” certainly applies to FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD.
It probably represents the practice of raising the livings standards of both priests and bishops who are aligned with the Homosexual Agenda. An impartial investigation and audit of the total remuneration practice of ECUSA should be made – and followed on by the Attorney Generals of NY and Florida. The appropriate finance committees within ECUSA should be examined. Something stinks here, and it is not the faithful Saints who are not truly informed of the despotic evil that is inherent in ECUSA today, as manifested by its apostasy and the pretension by Griswold that the Holy Spirit advocates and sustains the homosexual takeover of a once great church. This is certainly the tip of the iceberg |
| twaddill | Posted: 2005/8/25 18:58 Updated: 2005/8/25 18:58 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2004/11/30 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Mark,
I think that it may be you who needs to get their facts straight. I will assume that you are a parishioner at St. John's, since you seem to know so much about what’s going on in the parish. The current shortfall in the Capital Campaign contributions comes from two areas: 1) unexpected expenditures when we found that the foundation under the Church was crumbling, and 2) our organ was deliver a year early. The intent was to use the ALREADY EXISTING line of credit for two reasons: 1) To cover some expenses for the summer, since contributions are extremely low, and 2) To cover the costs of the organ until the second phase of the capital campaign. St. John's has used this line of credit over and over again, WITH THE DIOCESE'S KNOWLEDGE. Our debt balance has been on every parochial report we have sent to the Diocese since 1993. Yes, we still have more contributions to come in on the Capital Campaign, and some we will probably never receive due to parishioners moving away, change of financial circumstances, etc. but I can assure you that the finance committee is working diligently to get the money in. So as you can see, I would make sure you have your facts straight before accusing others of not having all the facts. P.S. Mark, who are you? My name is Townsend Waddill. Since you're telling David Virtue to reveal his sources, why don't you reveal your name to us as well? |
| twaddill | Posted: 2005/8/25 18:59 Updated: 2005/8/25 19:18 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/11/30 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD P.S. The group that has been meeting is not conservative or orthodox by any stretch of the imagination. They are a group of angry people, some of which have been angry at him since the day Eric arrived.
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| twaddill | Posted: 2005/8/25 19:04 Updated: 2005/8/25 19:17 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/11/30 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Oh, one other point. If you read David Virtue's article, you will see that he got his facts straight. He did not say that Bp. Howard stopped them for installing the organ, he said "More recently Howard refused to allow the 2,000-member orthodox parish of St. John's Tallahassee to obtain a loan to finance organ renovations." So as you can see, Virtue did get his facts straight. I personally saw the legal documents, so you cannot deny that happened.
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| MarkFL | Posted: 2005/8/25 19:34 Updated: 2005/8/25 19:34 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/5/23 From: Posts: 18 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD My semantic apologies as I characterized the loan for replacement instead of renovations. Clearly though, Virtue has had it wrong for over a month as to the number of parishes requesting AEO.
As to those in St. John’s that have come forth to question the direction of the parish, they are conservative and orthodox, they are liberal and revisionist they are just not reactionary as their rector and vestry appear to be. So I suppose you are technically accurate that “by any stretch of imagination they are not ‘conservative and orthodox.’” However, they have a right to question Fr. Eric’s actions and those of the Vestry. My point earlier was to question Virtue’s characterization of St. J’s as a 2000 member orthodox parish. It is not and has not been for many years. It merely has an orthodox rector. There is a tremendous difference. I also, find it interesting that you describe the dissent with St. J’s as having been angry at Eric since the day he arrived. I find that tremendously sad as I believe that + Howard suffers from the same thing most especially from those that wanted Ellis Brust as Bishop. We both know, Townsend that the credit line was pulled due to St. J’s failure to fulfill its diocesan tithe as a failure to do so shows an inability or unwillingness to meet one’s obligations. Why would Bish. Howard allow a parish in turmoil to fall deeper in to debt. Finally, the standard journalistic practice regarding sources is if they are anonymous there must be verification from a credible second source. Virtue has chosen to ignore this while holding himself out to be a source of news. One would think that in the terms of our current troubles, we all would strive for accuracy. This article stinks of muck racking and yellow journalism and was written only to stir those up who are already intent on criticizing any move + Howard makes. It has no real value as the Jecko letter has been circulating the DoF for almost a year and the rest is merely supposition and speculation. |
| JamesH | Posted: 2005/8/25 19:42 Updated: 2005/8/25 19:42 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/5/13 From: Kenmore, NY Posts: 39 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD I'm sorry, although looking bad, this issue is irrelevant to larger issues in the church. And, honestly, it makes Mr. Virtue seem petty.
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| lkwells | Posted: 2005/8/25 20:07 Updated: 2005/8/25 20:07 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/2/19 From: Posts: 607 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD All this somehow reminds me of the remark made by some mediaeval figure (was it Savonorola?) contrasting the Patristic Church which had "chalices of wood and prelates of gold," with the Church of his own time which had "chalices of gold and prelates of wood." It is nice to read of the "generosity of all sorts of individuals" (I suspect it is "all sorts" indeed). Bill and Hillary Clinton were and are so favored also. But opulent dwellings and extravagant lifestyles rarely reflect genuine Christian spirituality.
Laurence K. Wells+ |
| twaddill | Posted: 2005/8/25 21:03 Updated: 2005/8/25 21:03 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/11/30 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Mark,
I have been to some of the meetings of this group that you speak of, and I know personally the people involved. As an antithesis to the words of Theodore Roosevelt, they speak loudly and carry a small stick. They are an insignificant number of people. At their most recent meeting at the church, only around 60-100 people showed up, and I am being conservative in that estimate (we did not take attendance. It was probably in the lower part of that range). And for those of us who witnessed the meeting, over half of the parishioners in attendance were solid supporters of Fr. Eric who showed up to see what all the screaming was about. In a 2000-member parish, and assuming that only half of them were there in opposition to Fr. Eric (again, I believe that is a conservative estimate as well), that amounts to 1-3% of the membership. With those numbers, I am perfectly comfortable calling St. John’s an orthodox parish, and will continue to do so. In addition, I have heard through the grapevine that this group is now waiting around and is relying on Bp. Howard to remove our orthodox rector for them. Bp. Howard has met with members of this dissent group personally on several occasions. In addition, never did I say that this group has been angry with Fr. Eric since the day he arrived. Rather, I said that “They are a group of angry people, some of which have been angry at him since the day Eric arrived.” Emphasis on the some of which. I won’t out them on this website, but I know who they are, and I know them personally, so please do not try to tell me that they do not exist. Unfortunately, a few of them are friends of my family. I also stand by my comment that they are angry, because I have seen the meetings and watched them in action. I was meeting with them one day at the St. John's Cafe, and they asked me rudely to leave the table when I did not tell them exactly what they wanted to hear. Now let’s discuss your accusation that Howard is suffering from the same thing from those who supported Ellis Brust. This has nothing to do with Canon Brust, as he has gone on to what I believe is a higher calling. In fact, those who supported Ellis Brust bent over backward to welcome Howard to the Diocese. St. John’s Tallahassee was one of those parishes. We were very happy with him at first, until his actions against the orthodox clergy in our Diocese indicated that he was not as orthodox as he says he is. At that point in time, rather than rush to conclusions, our group of clergy has bent over backwards to write letters, meet, make phone calls and employ every means of communication with the Bishop. For the most part, their communications went unanswered. This attempt to make this a political issue is unfair and again shows a lack of knowledge of the facts. Also, one other point of clarification: David Virtue does not hold this out to be news. Rather, it is news analysis. This is his version of the events and it includes his thoughts and opinion. In addition, he is very clear and open as to how many sources he uses, whether he uses the term anonymous or not. With Bishop Howard’s propensity to retaliate, I would keep all my sources confidential as well. If this type of news analysis is difficult for you to handle, I would recommend sticking to the News section, and not the News Analysis. Best regards, Townsend P.S. You still never told me who you are, or whether you are a member at St. John’s. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/25 21:11 Updated: 2005/8/25 21:11 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD lkwells states: But opulent dwellings and extravagant lifestyles rarely reflect genuine Christian spirituality.
quite true - I have seen much greed along these lines in the echurch and I have been a member for over 40 yrs. And lately, I have seen more and more, especially from some of the priests who look upon their calling simply as just another job with a fabulous retirement plan. And their wives are even worse - you need to visit south Florida to see some real greed!! |
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| gregory | Posted: 2005/8/25 21:52 Updated: 2005/8/25 21:52 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD 'Twas the Bridegroom sat at the table-head,
And the lights burnt bright and clear -- 'Oh, who is that,' the Bridegroom said, 'Whose weary feet I hear?' 'Twas one look'd from the lighted hall, And answered soft and slow, 'It is a wolf runs up and down With a black track in the snow.' The Bridegroom in his robe of white Sat at the table-head -- 'Oh, who is that who moans without?' The blessed Bridegroom said. 'Twas one looked from the lighted hall, And answered fierce and low, ''Tis the soul of Judas Iscariot Gliding to and fro.' 'Twas the soul ... For the full Ballad of Judas Iscariot click here |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/25 22:11 Updated: 2005/8/25 22:11 |
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My, how interesting! Say, quite an attention getting article. But I wonder, this fellow is just one of 110 diocesans, correct? Although the bias in the article is obvious, there is no context for making value judgements. How about publishing a table that shows these compensation issues for bishops in similar sized diocess that would show a peer to peer comparison. But perhaps that would be too objective, and might take away from the intended innuendo.
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| gregory | Posted: 2005/8/25 23:03 Updated: 2005/8/25 23:03 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: My, how interesting! Compare to Africa...
sheezee any place on earth  |
| rbenson | Posted: 2005/8/25 23:16 Updated: 2005/8/25 23:16 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2005/8/25 From: Posts: 4 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Duval County Public Records show a mortgage recorded by the diocese on same day as the mortgage recorded by bank.
http://205.173.32.5/OnCoreWeb/Search.aspx Document Type: (MTG) MORTGAGE Modified Date: Record Date : 5/25/2004 10:54:00 AM Grantor: HOWARD MARIE Z ETAL HOWARD SAMUEL JOHNSON ETAL Grantee: EPISCOPAL CH IN DIOCESE FL INC Book Type: OR Book / Page: 11823 / 1013 # of Pages: 7 Consideration: 200,000.00 Legal: Legal: L10 EDENWOLD Document Type: (MTG) MORTGAGE Modified Date: Record Date : 5/25/2004 10:54:00 AM Grantor: HOWARD MARTHA MARIE ETAL HOWARD SAMUEL JOHNSON ETAL Grantee: MORTGAGE ELEC REG SYS INC EVERBANK ETAL Book Type: OR Book / Page: 11823 / 989 # of Pages: 24 Consideration: 450,000.00 Legal: Legal: L10 EDENWOLD |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/26 0:00 Updated: 2005/8/26 0:00 |
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.... .
I am sorry, but this is plain BAD journalism, at its worst. No wonder DV is the laughinstock among anglican bloggers and webmasters. He obviously deserves it. |
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| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/8/26 0:21 Updated: 2005/8/26 0:21 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Thank you for your detective work, Festivus. In the age of the Elliott Spitzer "perp walk" that has brought much attention to coroprate misdeed -- and residing in a "Red" state -- Mr. Howard had better realize he is walking a very fine line. I believe bribery is a crime everywhere in the United States.
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| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/8/26 0:27 Updated: 2005/8/26 0:27 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD I don't know Stoneridge, but September 26th is the day I found out the little company that employed me fired every one of its employees. I was not to find regular work again for almost 20 months. I would have KILLED for far less than $1,000,000 on those days I wondered whether to pay rent or buy food.
And these phonies think they are entitled to million dollar mansions? Reason enough to stone this imposter. |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/8/26 0:32 Updated: 2005/8/26 0:32 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD So, JamesH, which matters are sufficiently grand to meet your lofty standards?
And how much money have you contributed to Virtue Online such that the organization could afford to hire beat and investigative reporters, fact checkers, editors and the other apparatus you seem to enjoy without benefit of responsibility????? ALL YOU PETTY WHINERS: PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. HELP VIRTUE ONLINE WITH A GNEROUS DONATION OF CASH; GO START YOUR OWN NEWS OUTLET OR SHUT UP ALREADY. I DON'T CARE WHICH. |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/8/26 0:38 Updated: 2005/8/26 0:38 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Townsend,
Periodically, the Devil's Advocates send one of their minions here to disturb the peace, play mind games, undercut morale, and other such deviousness. These are not to be confused with honest revisionists, or those who are uncertain what to believe any more. There is nothing constructive here. Just cheap insults and innuendo. Believe me, I know what David Virtue is doing as I did it myself with an independent newspaper more than ten years ago now. Lots of work, genuine effort and a desire to report the facts as you see them -- but your enemies don't care. They will make fun of your typographical errors, call you insulting names, lie about everything, all because somewhere along the line, YOU HIT A NERVE. Virte has hit many nerves! The Left loves to do its thing under cover of darkness. And when they lights unexpectedly come on they are caught in surpirse and squeal like the proverbial stuck pigs. That's all this is. Sour grapes. |
| twaddill | Posted: 2005/8/26 0:41 Updated: 2005/8/26 0:41 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/11/30 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: My, how interesting! Fr_Steve,
What a great idea! Let me know when you have finished with your list comparing all 108 Diocesans' salaries to Bp. Howard. Oh, by the way, don't forget to adjust every figure for cost of living. Make sure you compare apples with apples. When you're done, it will show one of two things: 1. Bp. Howard makes too much money! This can be seen in relation to the salaries of all the other bishops, or 2. Bp. Howard is one of many Bishops in ECUSA that make too much money. This is arrived at by common sense. Anyone who makes 200,000 per year COL adjusted for Jacksonville, makes less than some successful corporate CEOs. I hope you will give us permission to use your work. Can't wait to see the results! Townsend |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/8/26 0:42 Updated: 2005/8/26 0:42 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: .... See my above post. This twit fits the stereotype to a "tee".
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/26 1:31 Updated: 2005/8/26 1:45 |
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Re: .... '"I am sorry, but this is plain BAD journalism, at its worst."
Why do you say you are sorry? Your post indicates othewise. On what basis do you make this statement about BAD journalism? "No wonder DV is the laughinstock among anglican bloggers and webmasters. He obviously deserves it." Please provide empirical evidence that "anglican bloggers and webmasters" hold the writer in contempt. |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/8/26 1:57 Updated: 2005/8/26 2:01 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: .... "No wonder DV is the laughinstock among anglican bloggers and webmasters. He obviously deserves it."
---- David Virtue is not perfect, but he has made a mark on this world - a big one. Almost single handedly, he has relentlessly exposed the lies and the idiocies and the thefts and the vices and the selfishnesses and the wordly and spiritual corruptions and putrefications of the slimy cockroaches which have taken over the Episcopal Church and who have destroyed it - and whose brethren in slime are destroying the Anglican Communion. He has shone a megablast of sunlight into a vat of filth which recoils from it. He has fought for Christ, where Christ has been rejected. You laugh at him, frehao? Those are hollow laughs, indeed, as the slime church comes tumbling down, and a new one is built. Crowds laughed at and mocked Christ too for what he did. But the last laugh will not be theirs. Essodalori |
| MisterT | Posted: 2005/8/26 3:23 Updated: 2005/8/26 3:23 |
Just can't stay away   Joined: 2005/5/30 From: JAX,FL Posts: 96 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Festivus wrote:
..."THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT FOR THIS DIOCESE TO HAVE RIGHT TO A PROPERTY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE TITLE OR DOMAIN. THE FLORIDA 7 SHOULD REST EASY. IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE DIOCESE TO LAY CLAIM AS SUCH, THEN THE FLORIDA 7 CHURCHS SHOULD BE ALSO BE ACCORDED THE SAME STANDING IN REGARDS TO THEIR PARISHES" I like your idea, but unfortunately, Howard, who has been here less than two years, and Dunkle, on staff for about one year, both seem to think that the churches we built, bought, and paid for, belong to them. Our parish was not planted by the diocese; we started it with the leading of our founder, (through the Holy Spirit). Thank you D.V. for shedding some light into dark places - MisterT |
| MarkP | Posted: 2005/8/26 3:28 Updated: 2005/8/26 3:28 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/11/11 From: Diocese of El Camino Real Posts: 319 |
Re: David Virtue "No wonder DV is the laughinstock among anglican bloggers and webmasters. He obviously deserves it."
In my opinion, David Virtue is doing a great service to Christ and to the Anglican Communion. Really now, who are you comparing him to? Would it be the fair and impartial reporting of the Episcopal News Service at 815? Or perhaps Louis' "crew" and his gay friends network? Or Susan Russell and "Integrity," which is more of an oxymoron that I care to ponder. I'll warrant there are more that a few readers of this web site that log onto here from Lambeth Palace and from 815. (You know who you are!) I'm sure you would make the same accusations of the child who proclaimed the "Emperor has no clothes." Come to think of it, not a bad parallel. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/26 3:36 Updated: 2005/8/26 3:40 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD ** SIGH **
Some of us knew about Howard's pedigree from Trinity. But as for me, I was more concerned with his stance on theological and canonical issues. Which when it became clear that he was no friend to the ACN and the rest of our leadership such as Bishop Jecko and Father McCaslin either through naivete or purposely, withheld their true feelings and suspicions, I knew I couldn't hang around just to see what is happening now. I mean, come'on.......you mean to tell me that people in the loop like Jecko and McCaslin did not know....did not have an inkling of a clue what was coming down the road for our diocese? Especially when poor dumb shmuck laypeople like some of us did? And all the while Jecko is telling us that Howard is OK and McClasin is telling us that he trusts Jecko's assessment of Howard (not to mention that the ACN would become the replacement province for ECUSA). As far as the value of Howard's house vs. Jecko's house...all I can say is that Jecko's house must have been really modest to only go up $69,000 in ten years. My first house in Jacksonville was a 1952 concrete block single story ranch, 1,390 sq. ft. with 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom and a kitchen the size of a walk in closet. I paid $60,000 in 1994. It sold for $150,000 this year. I just bought a house in St. Mary's, GA with 2,300 sq. ft., 2 stories, 5 bedrooms, 3 baths, huge kitchen for $143,000. $7,000 less than that little old block home in Jacksonville. Bishop Howard doesn't live in a million dollar mansion anymore.....it's more like $2,000,000 now. Why do I say that? That little old block home I talked about....it took from 1994 to 2003 to appreciate $50,000 dollars. It appreciated another $40,000 just from 2003 to 2005. Howard's had the house for nearly two years now....oh yeah...it's at least 1.5 maybe 2 million now. Ah...but such is the life of a loyal, faithful soldier of ECUSA. We were led to believe we were receiving a lamb.....but he came along only to unzip his costume to reveal the wolf inside. And why am I not surprised. Better yet why were so many surprised in my diocese instead. |
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| MisterT | Posted: 2005/8/26 3:58 Updated: 2005/8/26 3:58 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2005/5/30 From: JAX,FL Posts: 96 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD BTW - FYI
- Harrison, as Dean of the Cathedral, is an extremely liberal revisionist who leads likely the most liberal parish in the Diocese of Florida. If you ever visit, make sure you take your own bible - there are none to be found in the pews. - Ms. Gregory, who is a wonderful lady, is also a liberal laymember of another very liberal parish. She is now a part of the liberal majority. The two committees listed have suffered the loss of several very strong true orthodox individuals who felt compelled to resign; the Standing committee for example was 3 to 3 and after one ortho being replaced is now 4 to 2. I would not expect any more or different of an answer from either group. In fact I am suprised they responded. - T |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/26 4:39 Updated: 2005/8/26 5:02 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD If true, this story is very, very disturbing. As an active Roman Catholic [married to an episcopalian priest], I find it almost incomprehensible that a bishop of any church should be able to justify living in such an expensive home. It is bad enough that Msg. Clark of Saint Patrick's in NYC, recently brought down by possible sexual indiscretions, should be found to own a multi-millon dollar home on Long Island, let alone that an episcopal bishop in Jacksonville Florida should own a million dollar plus home. Almost none, if not none, of the bishop's clergy families live in such luxury, so what justifies him and his spouse doing so? Many of us clergy families have struggled for years to survive in our service to Christ and His church. One of the things I admire about my Roman Catholic fathers in God is that they do, the greatest share of them, whether priest or bishop or archbishop, live quite modestly, on very low incomes and in simply adequate housing. The gospel makes clear that Christians are to live modestly and simply and the accumulation of vast amounts of money and luxury are not to be our focus, this no less applies to bishops and clergy than to laity. With the great need to reach and minister to the poor and starving and disadvantaged in the world, here in the US as well as overseas, it is deplorable that a father in God, a bishop of the church and his believing spouse would first of all aspire to living so luxurantly let alone act on such an aspiration, seek to justify it, and get significant support from diocesan leaders to help facilitate it and justify it. I have long felt something was spiritually amiss in the Episcopal Church and this to my mind makes it even more evident there is increasing spiritual unhealth in what clearly in northeast Florida is becoming obviously a "church" only for the very rich, the very affluent, the upper class elite, and confirming what has too often been the episcopalian stereotype. My episcopalian clergy spouse continues to try to justify his diocese, his bishop, and his church, but I am hoping and praying that this story, if it is at all true, will serve to awaken him to the spiritual dysfunction that is taking over this old and once orthodox, episcopalian church, a church once known for its wise and learned practice of genuine Christian faith. Maybe my husband will see why I feel he should move to Rome. Rome, under John Paul II and now Benedict XVI, still maintains a real commitment to holiness and true spirituality, something I personally have found lacking in the Episcopal church for decades. Such things as a bishop as a "lover of money" certainly disqualifies him on spiritual and biblical grounds for office and service as father in God, heir to the apostles, a defender of the faith, according to what Saint Paul told bishop Timothy. I know my husband hopes a change has come with the new bishop of Florida, but if this story is true and similar stories continue to surface about the bishop and what appears to be his real loves and directions for the diocese, I am very very afraid my husband is to be sadly mistaken and greatly disappointed. For Christ's sake, let alone my husband's, I pray true holiness will be recovered in the episcopalian church of north Florida. Otherwise, orthodox Christians in Jacksonville and across northern Florida should consider the Roman Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church.
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| nm4Jesus | Posted: 2005/8/26 8:59 Updated: 2005/8/26 9:49 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2005/6/24 From: jacksonville Florida Posts: 28 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD The gospel makes clear that Christians are to live modestly and simply and the accumulation of vast amounts of money and luxury are not to be our focus, this no less applies to bishops and clergy than to laity. With the great need to reach and minister to the poor and starving and disadvantaged in the world, here in the US as well as overseas, it is deplorable that a father in God, a bishop of the church and his believing spouse would first of all aspire to living so luxurantly let alone act on such an aspiration, seek to justify it, and get significant support from diocesan leaders to help facilitate it and justify it.
rcspouse, God bless you ! Keep up the good work! then Jesus said to his disciples."If anyone wishes to come after Me , let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it. "For what will a man be profited, if he gain the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? Bishop Howard states in his 18 page response to the 6 churches August 12, 2005 on page 7 paragaph 3" Another important area of diocesan and episcopal involvement in the life of each parish has to do with indebtedness. Because all property is owened by the diocese of florida, all financing for congregation needs must be approved by the diocesan committee of finance and investnent and the bishop. Protection of the diocese and of individual congregations from unwise financial arrangements is an important part of the function of the diocese. Oh! Really ! Unwise financial arrangements. Hum. OK, I see it now Bishop Howard your Highness. Peace to you nm4Jesus |
| nm4Jesus | Posted: 2005/8/26 9:22 Updated: 2005/8/26 9:53 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2005/6/24 From: jacksonville Florida Posts: 28 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Bishop Howard states in his 18 page response to the 6 churches August 12, 2005 on page 7 paragaph 3"
Another important area of diocesan and episcopal involvement in the life of each parish has to do with indebtedness. Because all property is owened by the diocese of florida, all financing for congregation needs must be approved by the diocesan committee of finance and investnent and the bishop. Protection of the diocese and of individual congregations from unwise financial arrangements is an important part of the function of the diocese. I meant to add this in my previous post but was in a hurry. John Chapter 12:3-6 Mary therefore took a pound of very costly perfume of pure nard, and annointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscoriot, one of his deciples, who was intending to betray Him,*said, Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii, and given to the poor people" Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it. Bishop Howard wants the money and he wants all of it because he can not trust his parishes to make wise financial arrangements . Why they might make financial decisions that are unwise. Oh, Oh, Now I see ! All hail the great and wise Bishop Howard. A grunt in the field in the diocese of florida, not in the loop. Peace nm4Jesus |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/8/26 10:20 Updated: 2005/8/26 10:20 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD I'll believe their lies when I read an unqualified forensic audit from Price Waterhouse. Who cares what some podunk "CPA firm" in Jacksonville thinks? Accounting "opinions" can be bought and sold just as easily as any other "professional" opinion. Unlike J'ECUSA!, PwC has an unblemished reputation for integrity.
JOTM |
| gregory | Posted: 2005/8/26 10:37 Updated: 2005/10/6 14:03 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Guess who is in this icon. ? Hint, thirty pieces of silver with interest and cost of living equals around million dollar home, health insurance, retirement, $10,000 a month discreationary fund.... In Dante's Inferno, he is condemned to the lowest circle of Hell.... ------------------------------------------------ My family has been with holding our tithe and this article confirms our delay. We will be sending that reserve account to virtueonline, today. This will not be our first donation to virtueonline and will not be our last donation. i encourage everyone that uses this website to assist david virtue... today! Blessings, gregory |
| islandbear | Posted: 2005/8/26 11:42 Updated: 2005/8/26 11:42 |
Quite a regular  Joined: 2005/4/23 From: Rochester, NY Posts: 68 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Two Comments:
1) Unless I missed something, there was no response to David's question about use of the Discretionary Fund. 2). This issue is not trivial in any way -- it goes to the heart of the need for transparency in Christian stewardship. Hidden is usually not healthy. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/8/26 11:54 Updated: 2005/8/26 11:54 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Beautifully and truthfully stated, rcspouse.
I was in the Peace Corps for two years in Africa, and in that program, they give you very little. The end result (intended) is that you must live amongst the poor in the little towns or villages of the area you serve. You must eat their food, hear their problems and concerns, live, laugh and mourn with them. When you get sick, it is with them. As you live your life, it is in their midst - and in so doing, you can have a very big effect on their lives (and they on yours). Jesus Christ walked around from village to village, from town to town, meeting and speaking to the common people. He did not carry belongings with him. He relied on God to provide. It was from those common people that he chose his apostles. It was from those common people that the Gospel began its amazing expansion throughout the world. It is amongst the common people that the Gospel, on average, most resonates. With their sexual immoralities, their reworking of Scripture to suit their itching ears (and other body parts), and now their greed, it is very easy to see that many ECUSA priests have truly embraced the world - in all its sordidness. How far from Christ they have walked. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| MarkFL | Posted: 2005/8/26 13:02 Updated: 2005/8/26 19:23 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/5/23 From: Posts: 18 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD "I have been to some of the meetings of this group that you speak of, and I know personally the people involved. As an antithesis to the words of Theodore Roosevelt, they speak loudly and carry a small stick. They are an insignificant number of people. At their most recent meeting at the church, only around 60-100 people showed up, and I am being conservative in that estimate (we did not take attendance. It was probably in the lower part of that range). And for those of us who witnessed the meeting, over half of the parishioners in attendance were solid supporters of Fr. Eric who showed up to see what all the screaming was about. In a 2000-member parish, and assuming that only half of them were there in opposition to Fr. Eric (again, I believe that is a conservative estimate as well), that amounts to 1-3% of the membership. With those numbers, I am perfectly comfortable calling St. John’s an orthodox parish, and will continue to do so. In addition, I have heard through the grapevine that this group is now waiting around and is relying on Bp. Howard to remove our orthodox rector for them. Bp. Howard has met with members of this dissent group personally on several occasions."
Fascinating that you are arguing that due to their small numbers they are somehow insignificant to the overall texture of St. J’s. By that reasoning the six dissenting parishes that comprise approximately 1.4% of the DoF are also insignificant. I am certain they will be happy to hear that. "In addition, never did I say that this group has been angry with Fr. Eric since the day he arrived. Rather, I said that “They are a group of angry people, some of which have been angry at him since the day Eric arrived.” Emphasis on the some of which. I won’t out them on this website, but I know who they are, and I know them personally, so please do not try to tell me that they do not exist. Unfortunately, a few of them are friends of my family. I also stand by my comment that they are angry, because I have seen the meetings and watched them in action. I was meeting with them one day at the St. John's Cafe, and they asked me rudely to leave the table when I did not tell them exactly what they wanted to hear." You say potato………… "Now let’s discuss your accusation that Howard is suffering from the same thing from those who supported Ellis Brust. This has nothing to do with Canon Brust, as he has gone on to what I believe is a higher calling. In fact, those who supported Ellis Brust bent over backward to welcome Howard to the Diocese. St. John’s Tallahassee was one of those parishes. We were very happy with him at first, until his actions against the orthodox clergy in our Diocese indicated that he was not as orthodox as he says he is. At that point in time, rather than rush to conclusions, our group of clergy has bent over backwards to write letters, meet, make phone calls and employ every means of communication with the Bishop. For the most part, their communications went unanswered. This attempt to make this a political issue is unfair and again shows a lack of knowledge of the facts." I suspect I may have more information here than you. I was invited to the first clergy meeting regarding the troubles as a strategic advisor by then Canon Brust. The topic was not scripture as it relates to the issue, it was not our theology in this context; it was only tangentially about what the canons of the DoF say. It was primarily how this group of reactionary clergy could get Bishop Howard to do what they wanted and if he chose not to how they could leave with their things. More than once it was said, “We would not be in this position if you were Bishop Ellis” So yes there are those who did and do wish that he had been elected. "Also, one other point of clarification: David Virtue does not hold this out to be news. Rather, it is news analysis. This is his version of the events and it includes his thoughts and opinion. In addition, he is very clear and open as to how many sources he uses, whether he uses the term anonymous or not. With Bishop Howard’s propensity to retaliate, I would keep all my sources confidential as well. If this type of news analysis is difficult for you to handle, I would recommend sticking to the News section, and not the News Analysis." “VirtueOnline is the Anglican Communion's largest Biblically Orthodox Online News Service…” This is from the home page of Virtue Online. He does hold himself out to be a news source and therefore one would hope would have a high standard. Unfortunately that is not the case with this article. If, however this is merely “his version of the events” then it is no better than a dime store novel. Furthermore, in order for there to be analysis, there must first be an awareness of the news that is being analized. DV attempts to both report and analize with this article. If the news is reported with a bias, as it is here, it is impossible for the analysis to be anything but equally biased. This is the problem that myself and other conservatives have had with the MSM for decades. The factual errors and suppostions are made clear by the response to the list of questions that DV asked (demanded) of the Bishop. Clearly anything short of "I have looted the diocese and have turned the money over to Satan" would have been an unsatisfying response in DV's eyes. The problem with “news” from the web is that there is very little accountability. It is at its best when it is self policing which many have been try to do here. Someone stated earlier that DV looks petty. I agree. This issue and Jecko’s letter are both well over a year old. It is quite curious that now, after multitudes of e-mails last November, that DV is just choosing to write about it. Surely as the the "Anglican Communion's largest Biblically Orthodox Online News Service" he was aware of thisletter. If I as a simple layman sitting in the pews had heard these rumblings and seen Jecko's letter last year, one would thing that DV had also seen it then. Unless there is another agenda being played out here. Is it possible that within the DoF there is a disgrunteled layperson/clergy trying to stir things up to bring pressure upon Bishop Howard after his recent letter to the reactionary six? Could it be that these people that have called Bishop Howard everything except a Child of God would do something so, dare I say, political? Please Townsend think about this and report back your analysis. "You still never told me who you are, or whether you are a member at St. John’s." You are correct, have a nice weekend. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/26 14:01 Updated: 2005/8/26 14:01 |
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Re: My, how interesting! Dear Townsend;
I'm afraid you have the roles reversed. It it the responsibility of the author of the piece, and of the defamatory innuendo, to at least make an objective case. And as you seem to agree, he failed to do that. As a consumer of the article, I simply point out the total failure of the article. I am glad you found the article compelling. I suppose I have higher standards of objectivity and reasoning. =================================== Poster: twaddill Posted: 2005/8/25 22:41:38 Fr_Steve, What a great idea! Let me know when you have finished with your list comparing all 108 Diocesans' salaries to Bp. Howard. Oh, by the way, don't forget to adjust every figure for cost of living. Make sure you compare apples with apples. When you're done, it will show one of two things: 1. Bp. Howard makes too much money! This can be seen in relation to the salaries of all the other bishops, or 2. Bp. Howard is one of many Bishops in ECUSA that make too much money. This is arrived at by common sense. Anyone who makes 200,000 per year COL adjusted for Jacksonville, makes less than some successful corporate CEOs. I hope you will give us permission to use your work. Can't wait to see the results! Townsend |
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| mikejones | Posted: 2005/8/26 15:17 Updated: 2005/8/26 15:17 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/8/25 From: Posts: 2 |
Re: My, how interesting! "God is killing the church, and we goddamn well deserve it."
-Stanley Hauerwas Seems that His Corpulence Mr. Howard might be an instrument of the LORD after all. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/26 15:31 Updated: 2005/8/26 15:31 |
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Re: .... ProFate,
You asked me to provide "empirical evidence" to the effect that "DV is the laughinstock among anglican bloggers and webmasters". Well, what can I say? I´ve got "sources"! Geez, just take a little tour around "the anglican blogosphere". It´s hard to miss. |
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| Causidicus | Posted: 2005/8/26 17:55 Updated: 2005/8/26 17:56 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/3 From: Posts: 1095 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Secret loans, hidden discretionary accounts, persecution of dissenters, suppressing the truth, loyalty oaths, irrational homosexual activists, an unhappy wife, and million dollar estates, all in the fetid swamps of Jacksonville: I am uncertain whether this is an episode of Desperate Housewives, The Aged and the Restless, Star Chamber 2005 or some weird combination of the three.
Being a garden variety Baptist, RC, Greek Orthodox or just about anything looks pretty darn good compared to being an Episcopalian these days. Even the inquisition had its own internal logic. This morass looks more like an exercise in banality. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/26 18:35 Updated: 2005/8/26 18:35 |
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Re: .... You asked me to provide "empirical evidence" to the effect that "DV is the laughinstock among anglican bloggers and webmasters"[/color [color=000099]Well, what can I say? I´ve got "sources"! Geez, just take a little tour around "the anglican blogosphere". It´s hard to miss. I don't know about ProFate, but for me I have trolled most of the Anglican Blogosphere and it is worth about as much as the words on any pronouncemnent from the HOB, Rowan Williams, Griswold and ECUSA...... namely, worthless. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/27 0:35 Updated: 2005/8/27 0:55 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Clearly the diocesan "official" response leaves many issues unaddressed.
I know, as a clergy spouse, I would like answers to the following questions: What are the facts, the complete, full, real facts, regarding the purchase of the home Bishop and Mrs. Howard reside in? Who actually, demonstably, has ownership in the property? What covenants, agreements, contracts have the diocese and Bishop and Mrs. Howard entered into to protect the diocesan "investment" in this property? Who in diocesan leadership were involved in this transaction and approved it? Were the appropriate bodies actually involved and if so why did they sanction this? How do those in leadership justify such an expensive, luxurious home for a diocesan bishop of an episcopalian diocese? Particularly, how can they honestly justify this in light of the life-style, incomes and expenses of most of the diocesan clergy and families, episcopalians parishes, and the greater majority of lay episcopalian communicants? How does the leadership justify such a gross dissonance and disparity? Are the Bishop and Mrs. Howard and the diocesan leadership responsible [for acting or failing to have acted] willing to own their mistake and fiasco with regard to the housing for the bishop and spouse? Are they willing to place the property immediately on the market for sale and move the bishop and his spouse into a more appropriate residence for an episcopalian bishop, say something valued between $250,000 - $300,000? Are Bishop and Mrs. Howard and involved diocese leadership ready and willing to repent and apologize for their horrific miscalculation and ask forgiveness? If they are, doing so could go a long way to reestablishing confidence and credibility with a great number of Florida episcopalians and could help preserve the bishop in his episcopal office. Will the leadership address the report concerning the bishop's monthly expense account and credit card? Will the bishop give up his expensive, exotic cadillac car and acquire something more appropriate? Was the Ford he brought from New York thought to undignified in which to show up for his visitations? What about a Camry, or Taurus, or Impala or some similar car and less flashy? Does Bishop Howard actually see himself as fulfilling the criteria set out by Saint Paul for bishops and ordained clergy as the Saint set this out for bishop Timothy [1 Timothy 3]? He has made much of being in apostolic succession and what that requires, but does it not entail more than just preserving the unity of the church? He also makes out to be a real student of the Bible and committed to the authority of the scripture. It could be suggested he fails in being too much a novice in the faith before ordination and elevation to a high office [there being a difference between cultural and profession maturity in secular matters and spiritual maturity], fails in being what is now perceived to be a 'lover of money', and fails in not being able to manage well his own household if he so easily gives in to his wife's misguided material desires and demands. [Is Mrs. Howard the real power behind the episcopal throne in this case?]. Can Bishop Howard still be considered a wholesome example to the flock he has been entrusted with? Is he genuinely feeding the sheep, all of his sheep, or is he fleecing them? Do the Howard's understand the call to be servants and to be serving others and not being served themselves? The appearance is with their grandiose home and material goods they see themselves more as royalty to be served rather than servants of the servants of God. It is quite clear the episcopalian leadership of the diocese has a real public relations problem on their hands. Will they do what is actually appropriate and address it in the right way? Or, do they mean to send a very negative message from the elite to the rest of the middle class episcopalians who make up the majority of the north east episcopal diocese? One would hope that one with Bishop Howard's legal and political experience he would know better how perception governs leadership as much as anything else. In only eighteen months he and Mrs. Howard appear to have begun to create the wrong sort of perceptions. And, given that this much has already come out, reasonable people could wonder what else lies hidden from view that is just as unacceptable if not even more so. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/27 0:40 Updated: 2005/8/27 0:53 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD I also have one last question I would like answered. For whom is such a house necessary to entertaining? Clearly, the Bishop and Mrs. Howard are not regularly using this grand home to entertain the clergy of the diocese, their spouses and families. I know, I have never been invited to their home, not once. And, until this came out, I did not even know where the Bishop lived, his address not being published. Apparently he does not want even clergy to know where he lives, or to be called or visited at home. Parish clergy and their families don't enjoy such privacy and hiddenness. Is the bishop a pastor or not? Is the purpose of this luxury to be able to entertain the very rich and elite of the diocese, who from appearances are the ones contributing handsomely to the bishop's and Mrs. Howard's lifestyle as church royalty? And, with at least one if not both of the Howard's children away from home most of the year, why do just a couple need such a home?
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| voxpop | Posted: 2005/8/27 1:14 Updated: 2005/8/27 1:14 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/8/18 From: Gaul Posts: 222 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD A modest FL residence by traditional Anglican standards!
http://www.bishopspalacewells.co.uk/thepalace.php http://www.ecastles.co.uk/rose.html http://www.auckland-castle.co.uk/ |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/27 1:38 Updated: 2005/8/27 1:48 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD voxpop: you're speaking rather tongue in cheek, right? Such places as you list are really the exceptional exception rather than the rule. Having lived overseas and in a significant number of dioceses in this country, and seen many episcopal rectories, manses, and parsonages, most of them have been very modest houses. A place like at Durham dates from the sadder aspects of the Roman Catholic middle ages when bishops were the "princes of the church." [The bishop of Durham was in effect a king or duke in the English north and was the governor and ruler over a real political entity.] Seems anyone having princely aspirations as a bishop in this egalitarian age is surely misguided and ill-informed. Yet, apparently, some still think of themselves as today's royalty. Unfortunately, the Florida episcopal mansion is not something the bishop of Florida inherited from his medieval peers and predecessors. Plus, Durham is one of those episcopal residences, typical of many in England and elsewhere[and true of many parish rectories as well], where the bishop's home is also the diocesan offices and the bishop and family share the huge space with lots of staff and folks. [Much like what is typical with many Roman Catholic rectories in this country]. Tom Wright, Bishop of Durham and spouse live in only a very small apartment at the Durham castle. Given its multifaceted use and service as a diocesan office, conference center, university center, etc., Bishop Wright in the not too distant past argued, perhaps rightly, that the castle not be sold off. Lambeth Palace, home of the Archbishop of Canterbury is the same, as also the Vatican for the Pope of my church. Are Bishop and Mrs. Howard open to turning their mansion into the diocesan headquarters? Bet not.
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| twaddill | Posted: 2005/8/27 2:17 Updated: 2005/8/28 11:53 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/11/30 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD More than once it was said, “We would not be in this position if you were Bishop Ellis”.
I think this is a profound phrase, and I am glad that they said it. This in no way shows any politcal leaning toward Brust. Rather it makes a statement that I believe to be true. Ellis Brust is a godly man who is faithful to Scripture and the people under his charge. Bp. Howard is a bully attorney wouldn't know holiness if it slapped him in the face. So yes, we would not be in that situation if Ellis were Bishop. Thanks for sharing that with me. This will be my last response to anything that you say. Since you obviously do not take yourself seriously enough to sign your real name to your posts, I will not be inclined to take you seriously either. Good day! Townsend P.S. Couldn't you come up with a little something better than "you say potato"??????? |
| twaddill | Posted: 2005/8/27 2:34 Updated: 2005/8/27 2:35 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/11/30 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: My, how interesting! Fr_Steve,
I believe it is you who is being defammatory here, and are accusing Virtue of, what is it, less than stellar journalism? It seems here that the accusor is now the accused, as you are now assassinating his character as it relates to journalistic standards. I believe that the burden of proof now falls on you to prove that Virtue is wrong, since you need to practice what you preach and substantiate your claim. Then we can all go home. I'm still waiting on your spreadsheet by the way, as I think it would be enlightening. Please let me know when you are through. You can say the article is a total failure, but I say that the facts as I know them in this article are correct, especially the ones about St. John's Tallahassee. The only thing in the article that may be factually incorrect is Bishop Howard's base salary, which I believe to be much higher than stated in the article. The overall compensation package is correct however, since I was one of the Diocesan Convention delegates who voted against it. I don't know whether Virtue's innuendo is correct, but I do know that virtue made it very clear in his article what was conjecture and what was fact. A lot of what was stated as fact is correct. In addition, I know that Virtue has raised a lot of questions here that Bishop Howard seems hell-bent on not answering. If this was innuendo, Howard could have answered it a long time ago. In addition, he could have answered Virtue's questions, rather than turning it over to the President of his Standing Committee. He has lots of questions to answer, and seems to put himself above answering them. When he does that, he creates a lot more questions than he does answers. |
| DGarlandJr | Posted: 2005/8/27 4:18 Updated: 2005/8/27 4:18 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2005/8/25 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD "Fascinating that you are arguing that due to their small numbers they are somehow insignificant to the overall texture of St. J’s. By that reasoning the six dissenting parishes that comprise approximately 1.4% of the DoF are also insignificant. I am certain they will be happy to hear that."
No, actually Mark the six parishes are only six parishes which make up about 90% of the orthodox majority in the DoF. You may counter that if the majority of the DoF is orthodox, then why did the convention go the bishop's way. The answer is that when you have a bully attorney (to use the accurate words of Townsend) as a bishop you can get any number of people to vote your way. Townsend is also right in that David Virtues facts are correct here. I know Virtue may have a reputation for occasional embellishment, but the facts in the article correlate with other reliable sources. So maybe you should check your facts before you bash him. And if you find substantiated facts that differ then why not produce them. Good luck! The facts are that this bishop is anything but pastoral and his behaivor had been extremely unbecoming of a bishop. As it says in 1Timothy, a bishop should not be concerned with wealth. Well, a million dollar house seems to me like he is pretty concerned about it. Howard should stick to what he is good at which is being a lawyer, because he is a lousy bishop! Also, if you don't have the guts to reveal your name and debate openly and publicly you should just not say anything especially when your argument has not a grain of substance! Have a good day, Danny Garland Jr. |
| mikejones | Posted: 2005/8/27 4:42 Updated: 2005/8/27 4:48 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/8/25 From: Posts: 2 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Its moot to argue over Mr. Howard's leadership any longer. By this time next fall (or sooner one hopes) the orthodox will have left him (by choice or by other means) to enjoy his house and his henchmen. I am thankful that he has finally begun to reveal himself to all of us with eyes to see and hears to hear.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/27 13:41 Updated: 2005/8/27 13:41 |
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Re: My, how interesting! Dear Twaddill;
Oh my, it appears you still don't get it, and I am so sorry for that. First an example. Is $100 a lot of money? Well, that depends. For a gallon of gas, yes. For a house payment, no. You see, context is necessary to make the value judgement. This article we are discussing mentions compensation and housing for one ECUSA bishop, with the innuendo that it is excessive. But don't you see, that conclusion requires important contextual information to draw the conclusion that is only inferred? Peer group data, similar information for bishops in similar sized diocese, would provide that necessary context. For objective readers, this article lacks adequate support (well any, actually) for it's conclusion. ============================ Poster: twaddill Posted: 2005/8/27 0:34:19 Fr_Steve, I believe it is you who is being defammatory here, and are accusing Virtue of, what is it, less than stellar journalism? It seems here that the accusor is now the accused, as you are now assassinating his character as it relates to journalistic standards. I believe that the burden of proof now falls on you to prove that Virtue is wrong, since you need to practice what you preach and substantiate your claim. Then we can all go home. I'm still waiting on your spreadsheet by the way, as I think it would be enlightening. Please let me know when you are through. You can say the article is a total failure, but I say that the facts as I know them in this article are correct, especially the ones about St. John's Tallahassee. The only thing in the article that may be factually incorrect is Bishop Howard's base salary, which I believe to be much higher than stated in the article. The overall compensation package is correct however, since I was one of the Diocesan Convention delegates who voted against it. I don't know whether Virtue's innuendo is correct, but I do know that virtue made it very clear in his article what was conjecture and what was fact. A lot of what was stated as fact is correct. In addition, I know that Virtue has raised a lot of questions here that Bishop Howard seems hell-bent on not answering. If this was innuendo, Howard could have answered it a long time ago. In addition, he could have answered Virtue's questions, rather than turning it over to the President of his Standing Committee. He has lots of questions to answer, and seems to put himself above answering them. When he does that, he creates a lot more questions than he does answers. |
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| DGarlandJr | Posted: 2005/8/27 15:11 Updated: 2005/8/27 15:11 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2005/8/25 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: My, how interesting! It seems to me Fr_Steve that YOU are the one who doesn't get it! Do you really think that a million dollar house is NOT excessive for only ONE ECUSA bishop? You keep talking about comparing bishops in similar sized dioceses, well show us the facts like Townsend asked you to. Your argument would hold more weight if you stopped ignoring his request by going around the issue and produce the spread sheet of comparative bishops.
By the way it appears that Howard ignored David Virtue's question about his discretionary account. Seems to be typical of Howard. He is always ignoring the direct questions asked of him and twisting his response to bypass any real answers. I wouldn't expect any less of a lawyer. That's what they are supposed to do. It's just to bad Howard is now a bishop... |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/27 16:09 Updated: 2005/8/27 16:09 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Fr Steve: I suspect I know who you really are, but that is beside point. The context needed for understanding the Howard's home purchase as excessive is not comparison to other bishop's homes in other dioceses, though that context if provided might well show up - I suspect based on some informed, actual experience of much of ECUSA - that the home of the Howard's is excessive, but the context of northern Florida and Jacksonville in particular, where I do live and my episcopalian husband is a priest [who happens to still defend Howard as an orthodox bishop]. The Howard's home is completely excessive in this context, as I have said in other posts, in that the realities of the incomes and expenses of clergy and clergy families, parishes, and the ordinary vast majority of episcopalian communicants active in these parishes, are considerably more modest than the lifestyle the Howards, and particularly Mrs. Howard, seems to elect for themselves. Placing them so far above the vast majority of the people they were called to "serve" is a real affront to those people and show they have little real respect for the fellow Episcopalians who elected Howard to be their father in God. No issue has taken on and is taking on, that is, growing legs, than the issue of the Howard's social and material arrogance and it is not restricted in the diocese of Florida to just those of the extreme right [represented by the seven parishes in conflict with Howard over episcopal oversight], but involves the core and majority of Florida episcopalians. Many of Howard's supporters are taking a look at this issue and beginning to rethink the propriety of having elected this man bishop of Florida. If Howard does not now begin to respond more appropriately he could well be at the beginning of a movement to remove him from office and it won't just be conservatives acting to do so. There are many grassroots, local groups of episcopalians discussing this issue and won't be satisfied unless Howard and his spouse begin to act more in accord with authentic christian spirituality and holiness, dramatically reject such a gross materialistic lifestyle, and make some real acts of repentence and seek forgiveness from those to whom pastorally responsible. If Howard does not, he may only have Christ Church Ponte Vedra and the Cathedral of Saint John, and San Jose Parish Jacksonville to serve as his diocese.
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| frcochran | Posted: 2005/8/27 16:30 Updated: 2005/8/27 16:30 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD First let me apologize to all because I have not read everyone's post on this thread (been busy).
I have a question. Was Howard the rector of St. John's Wall Street when they stopped sending money to some needy folks in Africa because they (the people in Africa) would not go along with the ECUSA agenda? It was either because the province in which the African people belonged did not ordain women or they wouldn't go along with the pansexual agenda. Whatever the case, the people of St. John's Wall Street under the leadership presumably of +Howard were not respecting the provincial boundaries, Steve, by trying to hang a "carrot" over their heads. And, by cutting off the money over "provincial" issues were not behaving very Christian. Can anyone shed some light on this if interested? John+ |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/27 16:37 Updated: 2005/8/27 16:37 |
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The Truth Hello rcspouse;
My reaction too is that Bishop Howard's housing seems oppulent. The Wall Stree Journal ran a few articles a year or so back about the dean and senior staff at a prestigous Episcopal School that was muhc more shocking. And there are many other examples, I am sure. However, it seems obvious the reason that Howard, and Howard alone, was brought up in this article is that he is in disfavor with the self proclaimed orthodox in the church. The article isn't really about excess among Episcopal bishops. It is about a bishop disliked by a group of people, and hey here's something bad we can say about him. I simply point out that this is not objective journalism, but a hit piece. All of the facts may indeed be true, but it is dishonest to use them to construct a false conclusion. And I have no problem with such attack, opinion pieces. I simply make sure the truth isn't thrown by the wayside. ============================ Poster: rcspouse Posted: 2005/8/27 14:09:48 Fr Steve: I suspect I know who you really are, but that is beside point. The context needed for understanding the Howard's home purchase as excessive is not comparison to other bishop's homes in other dioceses, though that context if provided might well show up - I suspect based on some informed, actual experience of much of ECUSA - that the home of the Howard's is excessive, but the context of northern Florida and Jacksonville in particular, where I do live and my episcopalian husband is a priest [who happens to still defend Howard as an orthodox bishop]. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/27 16:40 Updated: 2005/8/27 16:40 |
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Re: My, how interesting! Hello DGarlandJr;
It seems pretty fancy to me. But what if there were 30 other bishops with more expensive houses? Then, what is your conclusion? And what if one of them was the darling of the neo-cons, Bobby Duncan from PA? Oh my, oh my, what a quandry that would present! =============================== Poster: DGarlandJr Posted: 2005/8/27 13:11:49 It seems to me Fr_Steve that YOU are the one who doesn't get it! Do you really think that a million dollar house is NOT excessive for only ONE ECUSA bishop? |
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| DTWDog | Posted: 2005/8/28 1:47 Updated: 2005/8/28 1:47 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2005/8/28 From: huper carolina infra Posts: 114 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD There is nothing so injurous to the soul than covetousness; whether it be the sin of the covetor or that of the covetee. For coveting brings forth the breaking of God's law even as the wish to break God's law occurs. And the object of the covet is bound by chains. - Polyphemos, from a sermon delivered to St. John's, Charleston
Talk about your downward spiral! Daisy, the Wonderdog posts + 171 |
| DGarlandJr | Posted: 2005/8/28 3:51 Updated: 2005/8/28 3:51 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2005/8/25 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: My, how interesting! Fr_Steve,
Produce the evidence and we will talk from there. If you are unable, then maybe you will realize that Howard is unfit to be bishop. (and it just so happens that his house is only one of several reasons that he should not be a bishop.) |
| twaddill | Posted: 2005/8/28 11:57 Updated: 2005/8/28 15:14 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/11/30 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD In a previous post, I said: "Bp. Howard is a bully attorney wouldn't know holiness if it slapped him in the face."
A good friends of mine pointed out that was a judgemental statement, or at least could be misconstrued that way. For that, I apologize, as I never intended a direct character assassination. Here is a revision of that statement: "Based on his actions, Bp. Howard seems to be more of a bully attorney and not one who lives the holy life of a priest and bishop. One can see this by how quickly he turns to Canon law and how slowly he turns to scripture when making decisions." |
| voxpop | Posted: 2005/8/28 13:12 Updated: 2005/8/28 13:12 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/8/18 From: Gaul Posts: 222 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD What sort of house would $1m buy, in Kenya, for example? Surely this is "the context"?
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| dturk | Posted: 2005/8/28 16:24 Updated: 2005/8/28 16:24 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Posts: 416 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD The Florida diocese is being stingy with this great champion of the faith once delivered. I've got a great idea for a few appropriate "love gifts" for this towering spirtual leader and shepherd of the the Word.
How about Father Divine's Duesenberg "Throne Car" and Daddy Grace's white mink coat for starters? Although looking at Bishop Sam's waist, they might have to let it out a little. BTW, Father Divine purchased this vehicle, which had an elevated throne-like seat in the back, in 1937, for a whopping $20,000, which was real money at the height of the depression. His poor assistant had to make due with a $10,000 Rolls Royce. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/28 17:46 Updated: 2005/8/28 17:46 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Danny Garland Jr. --- Word on the street is that Howard was a lousy lawyer too.
Have you ever heard the story about the man who was dying who asked his wife to go find two lawyers and have each stand on either side of his bed. The spouse asked, "Why is that?" He replied: "Because I want to die like my Lord. Between two thieves." Well ... just go get Howard and Dunkle. |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/28 17:48 Updated: 2005/8/28 17:48 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD dturk -- Looks like you're out numbered. Dream on. Dream on. Howard has destroyed the Diocese of Florida.
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| DGarlandJr | Posted: 2005/8/28 18:10 Updated: 2005/8/28 18:10 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2005/8/25 From: Posts: 21 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Tulip,
that is hilarious! |
| Fiona | Posted: 2005/8/29 1:13 Updated: 2005/8/29 1:13 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/1/18 From: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 1071 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD If some dumb Episcopalians in Florida want to pay Bishop Howard this kind of money, I say good for him! But this is EXACTLY the reason that my husband and I only gave to the Building Fund of our parish while we were still stuck in ECUSA.
Everyone in that Diocese should leave NOW. It is still a free country. If you don't want to pay for such bishopic "essentials," DON'T PUT YOUR MONEY IN THE PLATE!!!! Fiona |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/29 1:51 Updated: 2005/8/29 1:59 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Heard about this item concerning the bishop's housing this morning after service during coffee hour. Been a communicant 46 years in Florida and all of that in Jacksonville. Do not understand what all the fuss is about over the housing. Bishops in my time have always lived above the average Episcopalian and considerably above the clergy. So, what is new about that? I don't see the problem. Certainly won't be reducing my pledge to my parish or wanting what gets passed on to the diocese or national church withdrawn or reduced because of this ridiculous fuss over the issue of a bishop's home. He has to live somewhere and it should be a residence fitting to his social and cultured position. I welcome the fact the this bishop is proving not to be orthodox and is more liberal than what he came across in the search process. Having gotten settled in to the role he is starting to show himself to be his own man and I hope in the time ahead he will show himself to be more his own man and liberal in lots of other ways. I would welcome his changing his previous statements differing from the majority of his colleagues in the house of bishops and his embracing Bishop Robinson. I see his continuing to receive communion with the other bishops a step he is taking in that direction. Once he knows he has more real support for this in this diocese, which I believe he does, he will likely do just this. I also await his reversing in time his position not to ordain any active homosexual persons. I believe it is just a matter of time, once the dust has settled and after the next General Convention, that he will announce a new policy. How could anyone to come from the diocese of New York and been at Trinity Church Wall Street be otherwise than pro-gay and lesbian episcopalians and their rightful place in the ordained ministry? He could have never gotten elected in Florida by a majority of the actual electors if he had said otherwise on the subject of homosexuality at the time of selection and election and many of us understood this. The Episcopal Church in America is not going to have its position in the Anglican Communion changed and the current archbishop of Canterbury will not have the American church removed on his watch. "The times they are a changin' " The Anglican Communion is changing. More rapidly than is liked for some, but the changes cannot be stopped. It is a different world. The conservatives are right in one regard, the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion have left them, left them behind in the dead past of their orthodoxy. Our astute bishop knows the shape of the future and where the real health and direction of the church lie. He's not about to be left behind nor hold back his diocese from making real progress.
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| frcochran | Posted: 2005/8/29 2:17 Updated: 2005/8/29 2:17 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 544 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD harryc,
What a refreshing post from someone with the opposite view of most people (me included) on this website. I think much of what you said is typical of most Episcopalians. You, like most, are glad to have someone like +Howard. I am not going lie and say that I am glad that +Howard is your bishop, but there is truly a part of me that finds satisfaction in the fact that you like him. Now, here is one of the problems I find with your post. You said: I welcome the fact the this bishop is proving not to be orthodox and is more liberal than what he came across in the search process. Allow me to translate: I welcome the fact that this man has proven himself a liar. He intentionally misled those involved in the search process in order that he becomes our bishop. You end up getting the kind of person you like, but he had to deceive in order that you get him. This is absolutely abhorrent in my estimation. You freely admit that he has misled to obtain his position. Where is he going to mislead next? I think we will agree that Christian ethics do not excuse any means to an end. John+ |
| MarkFL | Posted: 2005/8/29 12:39 Updated: 2005/8/29 14:22 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/5/23 From: Posts: 18 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD "This will be my last response to anything that you say. Since you obviously do not take yourself seriously enough to sign your real name to your posts, I will not be inclined to take you seriously either. Good day!"
Your response employs two debate tactics typically used by the left when they cannot win on the facts. First you “Attack the messenger” by questioning my seriousness. Next you attempt to “Change the subject” by implying that my right to privacy somehow is less important than your desire to know who I am. The irony is tangible. Thank you for providing an entertaining start to the week. “P.S. Couldn't you come up with a little something better than "you say potato"???????” Couldn’t you have come up with a little something better than attacking the response? Perhaps defending your position would lend you a higher level of credibility. But then again, perhaps not. Also, since this seems to be of supreme interest, could you provide the board a spread sheet of all clergy compensation packages within the DoF. Start with Fr. Eric's and let us know how his compares to others. As several parishes are in the midst of searches this would be of value. Of course, I do not expect an answer as I have failed to provide you with my name, address, SSN, phone number, childrens' middle names, ISP and shoe size. |
| PRISCA | Posted: 2005/8/29 19:19 Updated: 2005/8/29 19:19 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/8/3 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 269 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD "Our astute bishop knows the shape of the future and where the real health and direction of the church lie. He's not about to be left behind nor hold back his diocese from making real progress."
So sucks to Jesus of Nazareth and His ascertainable opinions. http://www.nwnet.org/~prisca/Brief.htm |
| DTWDog | Posted: 2005/8/29 21:01 Updated: 2005/8/29 21:01 |
Just can't stay away Joined: 2005/8/28 From: huper carolina infra Posts: 114 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD .
"He who is without sin, let him cast the first cocktail prawn..." Daisy, the Seafoodloverinyou-Wonderdog  |
| Gideon_FL | Posted: 2005/8/29 21:05 Updated: 2005/8/29 21:05 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/8/25 From: SW FL Posts: 169 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Does anyone know how this person came to be elected Bishop? Was the prior bishop much loved, and if so, why such a departure?
Thanking God I'm in SW Fl diocese now! |
| gregory | Posted: 2005/8/29 21:45 Updated: 2005/8/29 21:58 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD "Does anyone know how this person came to be elected Bishop?"
(Howard gave a very good testimony that was right on with the Bible. i was fooled by him... changed my vote  )"Was the prior bishop much loved, (YES!!) and if so, why such a departure?" ( Loved Jecko++ retired with plans to hand diocese to a Godly man. Communicants were led to believe we were getting an othodox and evangelical type of Bishop. That his first move would be to jion the Network. But i was there with both the Loved Bishop and the "Baby Bishop" Howard. i saw the mask come off (coward's) AND tried to cover my eyes/ears... it was then that many knew... what is coming to light at this time...) stay tuned "The Stomach Turns" will be presenting episodes thoughout the season from Northern Florida.  ps. now we have questionable services and impossible evangelizism... The jokes about the Episcopal Church are a flying... Tell a down and out person on the streets that you are from the Episcopal church and wow their eyes light to quote scripture at me... it is humbling. Lord Jesus keep your arm on my shoulder and your hand over/on my mouth. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/29 22:15 Updated: 2005/8/29 22:46 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Didn't say Howard misled or lied in order to be elected bishop. He didn't do that. He never claimed, so far as I can recall, to be "orthodox" and certainly not in the actual use of that term. What he did say was that he was a "prayer book" Episcopalian, meaning his theology is taken from the Book of Common Prayer. He did use scripture in his interviews and in his public appearance during the one diocesan round robin, and could be said to have exegeted it and did so quite skillfully. The mistake conservatives, evangelicals, traditional Anglo-catholics, and charismatic Episcopalians made was to not recognize that a good exegete of scripture is not necessarily conservative but could be equally a liberal. And in their exegesis, depending on what is being examined, the conservative and the liberal could sound similar to each other. The same skill has been shown by Howard when he has used scripture in other very public diocesan contexts such as the convocation earlier this year or at the diocesan convention later in the year. Anyone present at the diocesan "listening" or "discussion" session held at Saint Mark's Church, Ortega, Jacksonville, while Jecko was still bishop, on hearing the few comments Howard did make, should have easily recognized we had, to the delight of many of us - especially following the reactionary Stephen Jecko - elected a liberal bishop and not someone in the middle of the road or to the right of the theological center. The mistake the conservatives made in this diocese was to think, while Jecko was bishop, that this was and is a conservative, orthodox diocese, which it is not. Jecko for a while may have thought he had the diocese with him, for example, in his conservative, biblicist theology, or in his support of the AAC, and the conservatives must have concluded their being in the vast majority during his episcopate. [Self-deception on their part, not on the basis of actual, known makeup of the diocese could they conclude this. And, there is good evidence that some of the conservative rectors and parishes have long known they are not really the majority. What has been going on for at least a decade in our diocese is a power struggle for dominance, and the conservatives always have lost, and will continue to lose. This explains their defensiveness and reactiveness.] The facts, which Jecko appears to have come to realize, are that the diocese was not with him overall in support of his orthodox, conservative positions, was not supportive of the AAC and the network, and the majority not necessarily opposed to the election of Bishop Robinson, and recognizing this he had the good sense to retire early [and now he's moved to Dallas, where he must be much happier and a better fit]. Jecko realized the diocese would never go willing into the AAC with him or into the network that was newly organizing at the time leading up to his resignation. This was all taking place and becoming clear before there was even a need for an election of a new bishop, before Howard ever came onto the scene. Jecko seemed to express himself that he did not have the stomach for the "fight" he would have to take on within his own diocese had he remained as the bishop. He admitted he did not want to spend the next five to ten years dealing with such conflict, conflict he clearly recognized he would have to have with his own diocesan council, standing committee, cathedral and dean, and the majority of the rectors and parishes in the diocese. Another indicator to Jecko surely must have been the election of Dean Harrison at the Cathedral. Obviously there would have been significant difficulties to arise between the bishop and the dean had Jecko stayed on and he would have found himself in an embarrassing position with regard to his own cathedral. Why the conservatives did not seem to recognize any of this [and may they did], is hard to understand [or is it?]. If they had taken a more objective look at our diocese [or have they, thus the power struggle and defensiveness, attacking, etc. of a beleaguered minority which is so characteristic of their behavior] they would have seen that the vast majority are not to the right of center. We're either centrist or to the left of center. All Howard did was effectively use language to address and be heard by all groups. Unfortunately, the conservatives, not listening carefully to what was actually being said and how it was said, heard what they wanted to hear. Howard did not mislead them so much as they deceived themselves and let themselves see and hear something that was really was not being shown or being said. [Why Jecko seemed to endorse Howard is more curious. But even Stephen was never above being one of the good ol' boys in the house of Bishops when it suited him personally. And he wanted to get out of his office and do so appearing to pass on the orthodox, conservative baton.] Despite a degree from Virginia Seminary, Howard is not an evangelical [in any of the usual Anglican senses], and most persons in this forum should know that Virginia is one of our liberal seminaries and was one of the earliest to permit gay and lesbian open residing in the dorms and married housing. It should thus come as no surprise to anyone that Howard would prefer his seminarians train at our liberal seminaries and not at institutions like Nashotah or Trinity. Howard got elected by a liberal majority of a liberal diocese. An explanation not hard to understand if one knows accurately the makeup of the diocese of Florida.
Harry C. |
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| gregory | Posted: 2005/8/29 22:21 Updated: 2005/8/29 22:21 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD |
| nm4Jesus | Posted: 2005/8/29 22:23 Updated: 2005/8/29 23:47 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2005/6/24 From: jacksonville Florida Posts: 28 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD If this works it will explain what happened.
http://www.rsanders.org/modules/news/article.php?com_mode=flat&com_order=0&storyid=182 This is an article written by r.sanders... He is the priest of the seventh parish mentioned that is not yet an established parish. There are more than 6 orthodox parishes that will be spliting away from this highjacker of the diocese of Florida. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing and appears as a messenger of light but brings death. Peace nm4Jesus |
| gregory | Posted: 2005/8/29 22:51 Updated: 2005/8/29 22:51 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD nm4Jesus, you got it right, link works.
here's a quote from Father Rob's article: A Common Denominator Theologically, does the unity group have anything in common with the revisionists? I believe they do. They are united in at least one simple idea, often not articulated, but always there. Both believe that personal relationships, our mutual love for one another, is of higher value than our theological beliefs or moral practices. From this perspective, truth is personal, something we feel for each other, while doctrine, beliefs, and moral practices are secondary. For example, the person who withdrew the resolution on communion with the House of Bishops pointed out that both Scripture and Prayer book forbid sharing Eucharist with a person who was leading a "notoriously evil life." He then mentioned Episcopal Bishop Vicki Gene Robinson as one who was quite notorious (known all over the world in fact), and further, one who was leading an "evil life." No one paid any attention to this appeal to Scripture and Prayer Book. Why was that? Withholding communion from Episcopal Bishop Robinson would be unloving, and further, it would be rude to claim that he was leading an "evil life." A great many clergy at the convention had to know that Scripture, Prayer Book, and tradition places limits on receiving Holy Eucharist, but they said nothing. Regardless of their theological beliefs, by and large, in practice, they agreed with the revisionists who hold that doctrine and moral practice are secondary to personal relations based on "love" and radical acceptance. The Eucharist -- Sacrament of Radical Inclusion This attachment to personal relations in spite of profound moral and theological differences finds its highest expression in the Holy Eucharist. For example, shortly after Episcopal Bishop Vicki Gene was elected, and in the midst of controversy, he commented that, although we have profound differences, we are united around the table of the Lord. In other words, we can disagree on virtually anything, practice all sorts of immoral deeds, but unity is still given as all come before the altar rail. "" i will bet my life, unity and many other words have been changed in Nfl... |
| nm4Jesus | Posted: 2005/8/29 23:30 Updated: 2005/8/29 23:40 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2005/6/24 From: jacksonville Florida Posts: 28 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD i will bet my life, unity and many other words have been changed in Nfl...
Brother Gregory, You are right! This Bishop changes the meaning of words to fit the occasion. The word truth means multiple changing truth. Which allows them to lie without guilt. Bishop Howard serves a mushy, feel-good Jesus that lets them sin without repentance. Why, a loving Jesus would not let anyone go to hell, so lets do away with hell. Jesus was a good man who lived a good life and is a good example for us. But since he died for nothing on the cross. I mean Wait... I mean the fairy tale about Jesus dying on the cross is an allegory that helps us be more compassionate to others I feel better already! Peace nm4Jesus |
| Gideon_FL | Posted: 2005/8/30 0:29 Updated: 2005/8/30 0:29 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/8/25 From: SW FL Posts: 169 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Thanks for your helpful comments and links in response to my question. In my new diocese of SW FL we expect to elect a new bishop as soon as the moratorium is lifted. In fact, an election was scheduled and had to be canceled because ECUSA could not bring itself to comply with the Windsor report without throwing cover to the revisionists (and thus spitting in the face of the faithful). Those of us who believe in the faith once delivered must review carefully what was done up there and endeavor not to repeat what happened in that now-shattered diocese.
Faithfully, Gideon  |
| lkwells | Posted: 2005/8/30 2:21 Updated: 2005/8/30 2:21 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/2/19 From: Posts: 607 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD As frcochran observes, harryc is indeed refreshing. He provides a salutary reminder of just how decadent and degenerate he Episcopal Church has become. People like harryc demonstrate exactly why ECUSA has lost 37% of its constituency in the last generation. For all his exalted "cultural and social position," Bp. Howard's morbid obesity is a clear revelation of his greed. He and harryc deserve each other.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/30 14:38 Updated: 2005/8/30 14:38 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD How did Howard get elected Bishop???
Grapevine has it that there was a constituency that was adamantly opposed to Ellis Brust becoming the next diocesan. Supposedly, it was agreed to let the first ballot fall where it would fall. It did, and Ellis Brust was in the lead. But, supposedly, the anti-Brust coalition had prearranged that on the next ballot, all anti-Brust votes would be cast to the the runner up. This was not an election FOR Howard. It was an election AGAINST Ellis Brust. And in a nutshell, that's how Howard came to be the bishop. It was ALL politics. Theology was a mere sidebar |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/30 14:49 Updated: 2005/8/30 14:49 |
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Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD People in Diocese of Florida: You can leave ECUSA without leaving the Anglican Communion
There are many new starts of which Bishop Howard is unaware ... new starts that stay pretty well hidden ranging from charistmatic to 1928 Prayer Book. If you are looking for a way to stay in the Anglican Communion, but wish to depart ECUSA, please simply post TO: Tulip and send me your phone number or e-mail. If need be, send information directly to David Virtue and he will pass it on to me. |
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| Philippa | Posted: 2005/8/31 2:07 Updated: 2005/8/31 2:07 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/8/28 From: Posts: 489 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD Gregory, I like your quote from Corinthians; true and interestingly presented.
Does the two-faced nature of candidates in a Bishop's election surprise anybody? Does it surprise anybody that many bishops can have an overinflated sense of self and thus want to live a "high life" equivalent to said sense of self? Trust funds or not or marrying money or not, I find it rather perverse for any clergyperson to be living in a million-dollar home, but that's just me. Rather than high life or financial shenanigans, why don't we discuss the endemic pants-down disease that tends to permeate the House of Bishops? Shall we name names or describe situations? That would be QUITE an article for David... Someday I hope Clay Matthews writes a book... I prefer to skip the adultery, debauchery, and money-flashing; it would behoove our leaders to do the same. "Send forth Your light and Your truth; let them guide me." PS 43:3 In Christ, Philippa |
| fob_fl_8 | Posted: 2005/9/16 23:59 Updated: 2005/9/17 0:03 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/9/16 From: Posts: 1 |
Re: THE HIGH LIFE OF FLORIDA BISHOP SAMUEL JOHNSON HOWARD It amazes me the virtue and the other people of the orthodox right never made a big deal about the 7th Bishop of Florida, Stephen Hays Jecko, driving a late model Lexus that cost the same as Howard. No one made a big deal that Steve was given that car as a gift from the Diocese.
Neither did anyone said something about Steve signing a contract with the Treasurer of the Diocese of severance pay (100% salary and full benefits) for 18 months after she either quit, was fired or retired and that the Diocesan Council never knew about it. How can he obligate the Diocese for almost $200,000 and not tell the Council? What about Steve getting a large increase in his salary as part of a "gift" from the people of the Diocese. Yes he had to pay taxes on this gift but it brought his retirement salary up a bunch. This is a larger gift over the lifetime of his "retirement." You and your orthodox friends don't see anything wrong with him receiving a bumped up salary until death, $60,000+ as a trustee of the DuPont Fund that he appointed himself to, or his new job with Stanton in Dallas. Some retirement. He's in Dallas and you're here. Steve Jecko left you high and dry and doesn't care about you and I think your mad that he took care of himself and family and didn't give a rat about you and your stand for scriptureal truth. Maybe virtue should look into those claims from this anonymous source and let us know. |
