Register now for more content and features!!    Login   Home | News | FAQ | eBooks | Weblinks | Gallery | Contact Us
News Topics
Special Reports
Columnists
VirtueOnline
Search
VOL Sponsors

North American
Anglican


The Orthodox Journal for Anglicans in North America

Historical, Theological, Practical

39Articles.com



Land of a
Thousand Hills
Coffee


Drink Coffee
Do Good



Sustainable Ministry: Coffee, Community, Social Justice

DrinkCoffee
DoGood.com



Orthodox Anglican
Priest's Manual



Hardcover and Electronic copies available

OrthoChap.com


Contact Us for advertising rates.

News : CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bishop
Posted by David Virtue on 2005/8/24 8:20:00 (4788 reads)

Clergy and Church Members in the Episcopal Diocese of Connecticut File Formal Charges Against Bishop Andrew Smith

August 24, 2005

(AAC)--Nineteen Episcopal lay leaders and priests in Connecticut have officially charged Andrew Smith, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Connecticut, under provisions of canon [church] law. The notification of charges was sent Monday to Frank Griswold, Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church USA (ECUSA).

Specifically, signatories charge Bishop Smith with undermining the structure of the Episcopal Church and denying canonical due process for the so-called "Connecticut Six" clergy. These charges accuse Bishop Smith of violating the Episcopal Church's Constitution, national canons, diocesan canons, and the laws of the state of Connecticut. Laity and clergy from Christ Church, Watertown; Bishop Seabury, Groton; Trinity, Bristol; St. Paul's, Darien; and Christ and the Epiphany, East Haven; and St. John's, Bristol, filed the charges.

Under canon law, a "charge" is defined as a "formal and verified accusation against a member of the clergy that the member of the clergy has committed an offense." Offenses are delineated in Canon 4.1.1 and include such actions as crimes, immorality, conduct unbecoming a member of the clergy, and violations of the Constitutions or Canons of General Convention and/or the Diocese where the clergy member functions. Charges can lead to an ecclesiastical trial much like a military court martial.

The charges address Bishop Smith's actions to freeze bank accounts and custodial funds and securities of Bishop Seabury Church, Groton; Christ Church, Watertown; Christ and the Epiphany Church, East Haven; and St. John's Church, Bristol. By these actions, he placed funds and securities under his direction and control, thereby assuming management of the church for himself rather than the parish vestries.

The charges also document Bishop Smith's non-canonical and illegal actions with regard to St. John's, Bristol, where he seized church property and records; changed locks, thereby denying access to the building to vestry members; and appointed his representative as parish administrator. Bishop Smith also appointed a priest-in-charge thereby interfering with the vestry's responsibility for the parish-clergy relationship.

Both canon law and Connecticut law stipulate that the duly elected church boards, or vestries, are to serve as "agents and legal representatives" of Episcopal parishes. In addition, vestries are given the responsibility for the direction, management and control of parish property and business affairs. The charges assert that Bishop Smith's actions clearly violate canon and civil law, as he has assumed ownership and management of parishes and "prevented vestries of the four parishes from carrying out their canonical and civil roles as the agents and legal representatives of their respective parishes."

In addition, Bishop Smith is charged with denying six Connecticut priests canonical due process, as he failed to meet numerous provisions for clergy charged with a violation of the canons. He accused the six Connecticut clergy of "abandonment of communion" under Canon IV. 10, a provision reserved for those who have left the Episcopal Church in order to join another denomination. Bishop Smith appears to use this charge as a device to avoid the clergy's receiving an ecclesiastical trial and canonical due process. Bishop Smith was advised mid-April that accusations of "abandonment of communion" in such circumstances were deemed invalid by the Presiding Bishop when used by Bishop Charles Bennison, Diocese of Pennsylvania.

Upon receipt of the charges, the Presiding Bishop is required by canon law to communicate the charge to Bishop Smith and forward the charge to a Review Committee no later than 90 days after it is received.

The Review Committee, along with an attorney representing ECUSA in the matter, will determine whether the charges constitute a formal presentment (call for adjudication), much as a grand jury determines if an individual charged with a crime should proceed to trial.

Charges against a bishop are rare and reserved as a last resort for extreme cases of abuse of canon and/or civil law. The charges against Bishop Smith speak to the egregious nature of his actions and failed leadership in the Diocese of Connecticut.

The six Connecticut parishes have been in conflict with Bishop Smith over his longstanding record of theology and actions that are contrary to Scripture as well as to Anglican teaching and tradition.

NOTE: The charges in their entirety are posted below.

IN THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT REV. ANDREW D. SMITH, BISHOP OF CONNECTICUT

VERIFIED CHARGES BY PRIESTS AND ADULT COMMUNICANTS OF THE EPISCOPAL DIOCESE OF CONNECTICUT AGAINST ANDREW D. SMITH, BISHOP, PURSUANT TO TITLE IV, CANON 3, SECS. 23(a)(2) & 24

TO THE PRESIDING BISHOP OF THE PROTESTANT EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

I. Preface:

1. The undersigned Complainants, believing they have reasonable cause to do so, hereby, on their oaths, charge their Bishop, The Right Reverend Andrew D. Smith, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Connecticut, Respondent, (variously, "Bishop Smith" or "Bishop") with the commission of Offenses under Title IV, Canon 1, Secs.1(e) & (f) (hereinafter, "IV.1.1(e) &(f)") of the Constitution and Canons ("Canons") of the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America (the "Church"), all as more particularly set forth hereinafter (collectively, "the Charges").

2. Each of the undersigned is either a Priest or adult communicant of the Church, in good standing, and each is canonically resident within the Episcopal Diocese of Connecticut (the "Diocese").

3. Pursuant to Canon IV.3.26, it is respectfully requested that the Charges set forth herein be promptly communicated to Bishop Smith, and forwarded to the Review Committee, no later than ninety (90) days after receipt of these Charges by the Presiding Bishop. II. Factual Predicates To Offenses Charged The Theological Dispute

4. The Priests, Wardens, Vestry Members, and the several congregations of Bishop Seabury Parish, Groton; Christ Parish, Watertown; Christ & The Epiphany Parish, East Haven; St. John's Parish, Bristol; St. Paul's Parish, Darien; and Trinity Parish, Bristol, (the "Six Parishes"), within the Episcopal Diocese of Connecticut (the "Diocese") have long accepted the truth as revealed in Holy Scripture, as well as the traditional teaching of Anglicanism, as upheld by the Primates, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Lambeth Conference, the Anglican Consultative Council and the estimated 76.6 million Anglicans worldwide. Each of the Six Parishes is a Connecticut Episcopal ecclesiastical society, organized and existing pursuant to the laws of the State of Connecticut, with corporate powers. Each Parish has long been accepted as such incorporated ecclesiastical society by the bishops of the Connecticut See.

5. Bishop Smith has long stood firmly in opposition to accepted Anglican theological belief and teaching regarding human sexuality as, for example, most recently expounded by the Archbishop of Canterbury on June 20, 2005, Attachment ("Att.") #1. He does not agree with these teachings, as we understand him; and he has long refused to consider the need to repent of his actions as hereinafter set forth.

6. At the General Convention of 2003, Bishop Smith voted favorably on three measures that departed from the unity of the historic Christian faith, thereby signifying his departure from the Anglican Communion, as follows: (a) By denying of the doctrinal nature of the Episcopal Church; and (b) By adopting a liturgical form for the celebration of same sex unions; and (c) By supporting consecration as a bishop of a homosexual person openly living with a same-sex partner.

7. Bishop Smith has long advocated and countenanced the blessing of same sex unions.

8. On June 21, 2003, Bishop Smith ordained to the deaconate two persons, who were both openly living with another person within a same sex union.

9. On November 2, 2003, Bishop Smith participated in the consecration of an Episcopal Bishop, who was then openly living in a same sex union, in direct disobedience to the express declarations of the Primate's Statement of October 16, 2003.

10. The Six Parishes have made known their opposition to Bishop Smith's theological views and repeatedly requested him to agree to a form of adequate delegated Episcopal pastoral oversight as recommended by the House of Bishops or to join in resort to the assistance of the Panel of Reference as directed by the Primates in February, 2005, and now fully implemented by the Archbishop of Canterbury as of July 12-14, 2005. Bishop Smith has refused to even discuss any form of oversight, other than one of his own crafting, which requires significant financial contributions by each Parish to the Diocese of Connecticut (which other parishes are not compelled to make) and retains supervision and control over the Six Parishes by him, as heretofore.

11. Bishop Smith has responded to the six Parishes on or about November 15, 2004, by threatening to invoke canonical initiatives against the Six Parishes, their respective Priests, Wardens, Vestries and congregations on or about November 15, 2004, and by actually doing so on various days commencing February 15, 2005, continuing to the present time. The Priests are: The Reverends Allyn Benedict of Christ Church, Watertown; Ronald S. Gauss of Bishop Seabury Church. Groton; Dr. Mark H. Hansen of St. John's Church, Bristol; Donald L. Helmandollar of Trinity Church, Bristol; Christopher P. Leighton of St. Paul's Church, Darien and Gilbert Wilkes of Christ & The Epiphany Church, East Haven, all in the State of Connecticut (the "Six Priests").

12. Effective on or about March 29, 2005, all six Priests were formally placed under threat of immediate inhibition and deposition for having abandoned the Communion of the Episcopal Church (which no one of them did); each Parish and its Wardens, Vestry and congregation were similarly and simultaneously declared to have also abandoned the Communion; and on July 13, 2005, the Reverend Dr. Mark H, Hansen was inhibited for having abandoned "the communion of this Church". III. Violations of Canons Of The General Convention and The Diocese

13. Canons IV.1.1(e) & (f) provide as follows: Sec. 1. A Bishop . . . shall be liable to Presentment and Trial for the following offenses, viz: . . . . (e) Violation of the Constitution or Canons of the General Convention. (f) Violation of the Constitution or Canons of the Diocese in which the person is canonically resident. . . . .

UNDERMINING THE STRUCTURE OF ECUSA

14. Canon I. 14.2 and Canon I.9 of the Canons of the Diocese of Connecticut (Diocesan Canon) provide as follows: Sec. 2. Except as provided by the law of the State or of the Diocese, the Vestry shall be agents and legal representatives of the Parish in all matters concerning its corporate property and the relations of the Parish to its clergy. Canon I.14.2. Section 9. The property and all business affairs of the Parish shall be subject to the direction, management, and control of the Vestry; except that the election of a Rector, the disposition of the real estate of the Parish and the borrowing or lending of money shall not be within the control of the Vestry, unless by special vote of the Parish: provided, that in accordance with Title III, Canon 14, Section 1(c) of the Canons of the General Convention, "the Rector shall at all times, be entitled to the use and control of the Church and Parish buildings, with the appurtenances and furniture thereof, for the purposes of his office and for the full and free discharge of all functions and duties pertaining thereto." Diocesan Canon I.9 (Connecticut).

15. The laws of the State of Connecticut governing ecclesiastical societies in communion with the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America provide as follows: a. 33-265. Legal status and powers All ecclesiastical societies in this state, in communion with the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America, shall be known in the law as parishes as well as ecclesiastical societies, and shall have power to receive and hold by gift, grant or purchase all property, real or personal, that has been or may be conveyed to them for maintaining religious worship according to the doctrine, discipline and worship of said church, and for the support of the educational and charitable institutions of the same, and shall have and exercise all the ordinary powers of bodies corporate. CONN. GEN. STAT. § 33-265 b. § 33-266. Regulations The manner of conducting the parish, the qualifications for membership of the parish and the manner of acquiring and terminating such membership, the number of the officers of the parish, their powers and duties and the manner of their appointment, the time of holding the annual meeting of the parish and the manner of notification thereof and the manner of calling special meetings of the parish shall be such as are provided and prescribed by the constitution, canons and regulations of said Protestant Episcopal Church in this state. CONN. GEN. STAT. § 33-266

16. Commencing on or about March 31, 2005, and continuing to the present time, to the best of the undersigned's knowledge, information and belief, Bishop Smith intentionally, materially and meaningfully, within the meaning of Canon IV.14.5, violated Canon 14 Sec.2 of Title I of the General Convention (Canon I.14.2), and Diocesan Canon 1.9 of the Diocese of Connecticut in one or more of the following respects, in that: a. On various days commencing on or about November 15, 2004 and continuing to the present time, Bishop Smith acted and caused John W. Spaeth, III, Canon for Stewardship and Administration of the Episcopal Diocese of Connecticut ("Canon Spaeth"), Edward Siebert, an administrative assistant to Canon Spaeth and others to the Complainants unknown, but including servants, agents and employees of Bishop Smith and of certain banking and financial institutions, including Farmington Savings Bank, State Street Corporation and NRS (a/k/a Northeast Retirement Services), to act to freeze the bank accounts and custodial deposits of funds and securities of Bishop Seabury Parish, a/k/a Bishop Seabury Church, Christ Church Parish, a/k/a Christ Church, Christ & The Epiphany Parish, a/k/a Christ & The Epiphany Church, and St. John's Parish, a/k/a St. John's Church, with and in the hands of those banking and financial institutions thereby placing the funds and securities under the control and direction of Bishop Smith. Bishop Smith thereby arrogated to himself the management of the properties and assets aforesaid in lieu of that by the respective Vestries of these four Parishes, each of which is an incorporated "ecclesiastical [society in the State of Connecticut], in communion with the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America" (the "Parishes"). Bishop Smith prevented, and still prevents, the Vestries of these four Parishes them from carrying out their canonical and civil roles as the agents and legal representatives of their respective Parishes regarding the management, possession and control of their assets and property; and b. Commencing on or about July 13, 2005, Bishop Smith, aided and abetted by others, including without limitation, Canon, Spaeth and his administrative assistant, Edward Seibert, Susan J. Mc Cone, a/k/a Mother Mc Cone, an Episcopal priest, several computer specialists, security guards and others to the Complainants unknown, unlawfully seized and took possession of the building and grounds of St. John's Parish, 851 Stafford Street, Bristol, Connecticut by misrepresenting his authority as Bishop of the Diocese of Connecticut. On information and belief, Bishop Smith ordered the Parish computers down-loaded onto disks, took control of confidential and other files; changed the locks and locked out the St. John's Parish Wardens and Vestry; and then installed, Edward Seibert, as the Parish administrator, de facto replacing St. John's Wardens, Parish Clerk and its Vestry and preventing them to the present time from carrying out their canonical and civil roles as the agents and legal representatives of their respective Parishes in respect to the management, possession and control of St. John's Parish's assets and property. c. Commencing on or about August 1, 2005, Bishop Smith caused Edward Seibert, and others of his agents and employees to the Complainants unknown, to compel the Postmaster of the United States Post Office at Bristol, Connecticut to close St. John's Parish's (a/k/a St. John's Church) post office box No. 727 and direct all United States mail addressed to St. John's Parish or St. John's Church to be delivered to its Stafford Street address in Bristol, thereby preventing St. John's Wardens and Vestry from making use of the United States mails to discharge their responsibility under both canon and civil law for conducting the lawful business of the Parish. d. Commencing on or about June 1, 2005, Bishop Smith conferred on Mother McCone the title of Priest-in-Charge of St. John's Parish, without prior consultation with its Vestry as the "legal representatives of the Parish in all matters concerning . . . . relations of the Parish to its Clergy" in violation of both Canon I. 14.2 and Canon III. 9. 3 (b) (consultation with the Vestry required prior to appointing a Priest-in-Charge) thereby arrogating to himself responsibility for relations between the Parish and its Clergy and de facto prohibiting the Vestry and the Senior Warden of St. John's Parish from discharging their respective responsibilities in all matters concerning relations of the Parish with its Clergy and making provision for the altar, in the absence of the Rector, as required by Canon III. 9.6(b)(1).

FAILURE TO INVESTIGATE IMPUTATIONS

17. Canon IV. 3. 6 provides: Sec. 6. Any Priest or Deacon canonically resident in the Diocese who deems himself or herself to be under imputation, by rumor or otherwise, of any Offense or misconduct for which he or she could be tried in an Ecclesiastical Court, may on his or her own behalf complain to and request of the Bishop that an inquiry with regard to such imputation be instituted. Upon receipt of such request by a Priest or Deacon, it shall be the duty of the Bishop to cause the matter to be investigated and to report the result to the Priest or Deacon.

18. Commencing on or about April 15, 2005, and continuing to the present time, to the best of the undersigned's knowledge, information and belief, Bishop Smith violated, and continues to violate, a Canon of the General Convention, to wit: Canon IV.3.6 , in that he intentionally, materially and meaningfully, within the meaning of Canon IV.14.5, failed to cause an investigation to be made, after being requested to do so into the imputations that each Priest abandoned "the communion of this Church" ; each violated his ordination vows and each disobeyed his Bishop.

FAILURE TO PREFER CHARGES AS REQUIRED

19. Canon IV.3.7 provides: Except as expressly provided in this Canon [Canon 3 of Title IV], no Bishop of the Diocese shall prefer a Charge against a Priest or Deacon canonically resident in this Diocese.
20. Commencing on or about February 15, 2005 and continuing through March 9, 2005, to the best of the undersigned's knowledge, information and belief, Bishop Smith violated a Canon of the General Convention, to wit: Canon IV.3.7 in that he intentionally, materially and meaningfully, within the meaning of Canon IV.14.5, preferred to the Standing Committee a Charge of "abandonment of the communion of this Church," under Canon IV.10.1 against each of the said Six Priests, on facts, which if true (and they are false in all material respects), could only have been preferred under Canon IV. 1.1 thereby depriving each of the Six Priests of their rights to canonical due process, including the right to an ecclesiastical trial, all of which rights are specifically granted them by Canon IV.3; in particular IV.3.2; 3.8; 3.9; and 3.11-3.16, inclusive.

DENIAL OF CANONICAL DUE PROCESS

21. Canon IV.14.8 & 14.10-11 provide as follows: Sec. 8. (a) Each Diocese shall appoint one or more Consultants and shall make a Consultant available to any Member of the Clergy canonically resident or residing in that Diocese charged with or suspected of an Offense.The Consultant shall be available to consult with and advise the Member of the Clergy and his or her legal advisors at reasonable times prior to the issuance of a Presentment. The Consultant shall explain the rights of the Member of the Clergy and the alternatives available under this Title. (b) A Member of the Clergy shall be notified of the availability and identity of the Consultant at the earliest of (i) the communication to the Member of the Clergy of a Charge, (ii) any interrogation or request for a statement described in Canon IV.14.11(a), (iii) the service of a Temporary Inhibition, (iv) submission to the Ecclesiastical Authority or the Presiding Bishop of a Renunciation under Canon IV.8, or (v) prior to the Execution of a Waiver and Voluntary Submission to Discipline. (c) Any communications between the Consultant and the Member of the Clergy, or his or her legal advisors shall be Privileged Communications. (d) No Consultant shall be required to respond to any questions regarding the Member of the Clergy for whom the Consultant has acted as Consultant. (e) All of the costs and expenses of providing a Consultant shall be the obligation of the Diocese exercising disciplinary jurisdiction over the Member of the Clergy. (Canon IV.14.8) Sec. 10. In all proceedings under this Title, whenever a Respondent or Member of the Clergy suspected of an Offense is required or permitted to appear, the Respondent or Member of the Clergy shall have the right to be represented by counsel of her or his choice. (Canon IV.14.10) Sec. 11. Involuntary Statements. (a) No person proceeding under the authority of this Title may interrogate, or request a statement from, a Respondent or a person suspected of an Offense without first informing that person of the nature of the accusation and advising that person that no statement need be made regarding the Offense of which the Respondent is accused or suspected and that any statement so made may be used in evidence against that person in any Ecclesiastical Trial. (b) No Respondent or person suspected of an Offense may be compelled to make any statement or admission or to testify against himself or herself in any proceedings under this Title. (c) No statement obtained from any person in violation of this Canon, or through the use of coercion, undue influence or improper inducement may be received in evidence against that person in a Trial under this Title. (d) No Advocate shall be required to respond to any question regarding any Complainant or alleged Victim. (e) No Consultant shall be required to respond to any question regarding any Respondent or any Member of the Clergy for whom the Consultant has acted as a Consultant. Canon IV.14.11.

22. Commencing on or about February 15, 2005, and continuing to the present time, to the best of the undersigned's knowledge, information and belief, Bishop Smith materially and meaningfully, within the meaning of Canon IV.14.5, violated a Canon of the General Convention, to wit: Canon IV.14, secs. 8, 10-11, in that: (a.) Bishop Smith, intentionally, utilized charges of "abandonment of communion of this Church," under Canon IV. 10.1, (which charges are false in all material respects) in order to deny to each of the Six Priests their several rights to a Consultant and to counsel in their meetings with any of the three Bishops within the Diocese of Connecticut, including Bishop Smith and/or the Diocesan Chancellor, which meetings occurred with the Six Priests, individually, prior to, during the course of, and after Bishop Smith's and the Standing Committee's invocation of the canonical initiatives of inhibition and deposition on February 17, 2005 and his affirmance of a determination of the Standing Committee's inhibition and deposition of the Rev. Dr. Mark H. Hansen on July 13, 2005. b. Bishop Smith failed to offer to provide, or to provide, any one of the Priests with the name of a Consultant, in violation of Canon IV.14.8(b)(i) ; or give to any Priest information concerning the nature of the accusation against him; or give to any Priest the advice that no statement need be made to him and that any statement he did make could be used against him in subsequent proceedings, involving a claimed violation of canon law in violation of Canon IV. 14. 11. Instead, on or about March 29, 2005, Bishop Smith insisted that the Six Priests meet with him, individually, as their Bishop, before April 15, 2005. c. On various occasions, on and after November 15, 2004 through and including July 13, 2005, Bishop Smith, himself, or, at his direction, one of the Suffragan Bishops, or the Diocesan Chancellor, met, or held telephone conferences, with individual Priests. Each such Priest was interviewed, questioned about canonical offenses of which he was suspected or charged, within the meaning of Canon IV. 14. 11(a), and his responses recorded, without being provided with the name of a Consultant, as required by Canon IV.14.8(b); or given any information concerning the nature of the accusation against him; or advised that no statement need be made by him and that any statement such Priest did make could be used against him in subsequent proceedings, involving a claimed violation of canon law. On information and belief, such information as was obtained in the manner hereinbefore alleged was presented to the Standing Committee in connection with the proceedings initiated against the Reverend Ronald S. Gauss in February, March and April, 2005, among others; and considered by Bishop Smith in his July 13, 2005 affirmance of the inhibition of the Rev. Dr. Mark H. Hansen.

d. While the Six Priests were under specific threat of inhibition and deposition, Bishop Smith ordered the Six Priests to meet with him at the Diocesan Chancery, Hartford, Connecticut on April 18, 2005. Bishop Smith, with his Chancellor and counsel for the Six Priests in attendance, charged them with "conspiring against [him]". He claimed the Priests caused their Six Parishes to seek a form of delegated Episcopal pastoral oversight that the Priests knew he was powerless to grant. Bishop Smith, then and there, demanded that each Priest make a statement explaining his position, respecting his disagreements with his Bishop. Bishop Smith finally demanded that the undersigned Priests submit to him as their Bishop, then and there; and, for the first time, he charged that any Priest, who left the meeting, without doing so and without accepting his version of delegated Episcopal pastoral oversight, would thereby violate his ordination vows. After the meeting concluded, Bishop Smith publicly stated: "[B]y leaving the meeting tonight without accepting my authority as their bishop they have placed themselves under threat of inhibition by refusing to live within their vows."

VERIFICATION

Each of the undersigned having read the within and foregoing Charges against Bishop Andrew D. Smith declare that the Charges are true and correct, according to the best of the undersigned's knowledge, information and belief.

END
















Social Bookmarking
Bookmark to: Favit Bookmark to: Digg Bookmark to: Del.icio.us Bookmark to: Facebook Bookmark to: Reddit Bookmark to: StumbleUpon Bookmark to: Furl Bookmark to: Google Bookmark to: Yahoo Bookmark to: Technorati Information        
Printer Friendly Page Send this Story to a Friend
The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.
Poster Thread
gregory
Posted: 2005/8/24 17:55  Updated: 2005/8/24 17:55
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/8/4
From: Nflorida
Posts: 4423
 Re: CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bi
Saint Bartholomew the Apostle Wednesday, August 24

i just love how important points happen on Holy Days.
Thank God there are hearts to bring these needed charges. God speed!

Collect for Saint Bartholomew the Apostle.

O ALMIGHTY and everlasting God, who didst give to thine Apostle Bartholomew grace truly to believe and to preach thy Word; Grant, we beseech thee, unto thy Church, to love that Word which he believed, and both to preach and receive the same; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

A Prayer for the Clergy and People.

Almighty and everlasting God, from whom cometh every good and perfect gift; Send down upon our Bishops, and other Clergy, and upon the Congregations committed to their charge, the healthful Spirit of thy grace; and, that they may truly please thee , pour upon them the continual dew of thy blessing. Grant this, O Lord, for the honour of our Advocate and Mediator, Jesus Christ. Amen.
essodalori
Posted: 2005/8/24 18:13  Updated: 2005/8/24 18:13
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/15
From:
Posts: 4904
 Re: CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bi
"These charges accuse Bishop Smith of violating the Episcopal Church's Constitution, national canons, diocesan canons, and the laws of the state of Connecticut. "

---

'Bishop' Smith has violated church law, government law and God's law.

Punishments will be of the church (if it has any integrity left), of the government, and eternal, if his sins are not repented of.

What a fool.

With Christian love,

Essodalori
Anonymous
Posted: 2005/8/24 18:18  Updated: 2005/8/24 18:18
 Serious Indeed
These are serious charges indeed. For those parishes in good stading, that are current in their diocesan tithes and comittments, I urge the Presiding Bishop to form a committee to fully investigate these allegations.
frcochran
Posted: 2005/8/24 18:40  Updated: 2005/8/24 18:44
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/6/28
From:
Posts: 544
 Re: Serious Indeed
I must say that these are righteous actions taken against Bp. Smith; however, Steve, don’t worry your little head about this. You know that +Smith is a revisionist and thus immune from this sort of thing. The sad thing is that those bringing +Smith up on charges think that FTG is going to do something positive in this matter. $10 says that when this is all over FTG will appoint +Smith to some high office as Browning did for Spong after the latter's heresy trial. It is the ECUSA way after all

+Smith needs to go out and get him a bullet proof vest and claim that someone wants to harm him (you know those evil people known as traditionalists he could claim are behind it because of his perceived self-importance). It is the manly thing to do after all, and never some kind of publicity stunt that revisionists never attempt. Certainly, VGR will make himself available to advise on this matter.

John+
JimMcNeely
Posted: 2005/8/24 18:53  Updated: 2005/8/24 18:53
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/4/7
From:
Posts: 697
 Re: CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bi
It is truly open warfare between the orthodox faithful and the intolerant Loon Leftists who have taken over ECUSA. This is yet another artillery salvo from the orthodox against their oppressive and un-Christian bishops.

While we can certainly hope that their cause is successful, the hierarchy of the church presently favors the apostates. Sooner or later the Connecticut Six and their loyal and faithful congregations will be pushed out.

Let us pray for them, that their cause prevail.
OtisPage
Posted: 2005/8/24 18:58  Updated: 2005/8/24 18:58
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/4
From:
Posts: 667
 Re: CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bi
It is a sad indictment of ECUSA where just and holy men are crucified in the name of the traditional faith, where personal lives and reputations based on a witness for that true faith becomes the issue in a power struggle, where Satan’s wishes to be served by a defiled and dishonest system of church governance is placed on the judgment seat based on an alter of apostasy. Can these good men survive! Only if the Saints are inspired to offer their own judgment to rectify ECUSA’s gross and overwhelming sin.
Traktaryan
Posted: 2005/8/24 19:01  Updated: 2005/8/24 19:01
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/16
From:
Posts: 706
 A Turn for the Worse
Being an outsider who knows only what he has read on this case, it seems that the Bishop may indeed have violated civil law by breaking and entering, changing locks and hacking into parish computer files. If that is the case, if he is truly guilty of violating the law, then he should expect due process.

Almost certainly none of this would have happened if the "Connecticut 6" had never dared to question or object to the actions and decisions of Andrew Smith.
jimB01
Posted: 2005/8/24 20:51  Updated: 2005/8/24 20:51
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/10/29
From:
Posts: 144
 Re: CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bi
Gentlmen:

It seems to me that all and sundry, on both sides, are prepared to skip the trial and rush to the judgement. The bishop is innocent or guilty not because of what he did or did not do and the legality or illegality of the actions, but because you agree with or disagree with his theology. For shame!

The charges are certainly serious. They have to stand the test of describing acts that indeed violate law, and the test of being accurately described. If they do, in the relevant fora, then and only then are they proven. If they do not, then the bishop has acted legally. That is why there is a review process and a court for the trial of a bishop.

For us to pre-judge is simply wrong. The process is formalized, it will folow, and the results will be what they are. To claim as one poster does that the system is such that a person's politics pre-selects the judgement is to impune the integrity of the church's panel and court members. Charector assault is at best, sin.

FWIW
jimB
Kennjon
Posted: 2005/8/24 21:00  Updated: 2005/8/24 21:00
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/6/9
From: St Alban's Church, Los Banos, CA
Posts: 221
 Re: Serious Indeed
Fr_Steve, if these allegations are proven, what will your reactions be, and what would you expect as the outcome of a trial?
Kennjon
Posted: 2005/8/24 21:03  Updated: 2005/8/24 21:03
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/6/9
From: St Alban's Church, Los Banos, CA
Posts: 221
 Re: Serious Indeed
Fr_Steve, if these allegations are proven, what will your reactions be, and what would you expect as the outcome of a trial?
Kennjon
Posted: 2005/8/24 21:04  Updated: 2005/8/24 21:04
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/6/9
From: St Alban's Church, Los Banos, CA
Posts: 221
 Re: Serious Indeed
Fr_Steve, if these allegations are proven, what will your reactions be, and what would you expect as the outcome of a trial?
Damascus
Posted: 2005/8/24 21:09  Updated: 2005/8/24 21:38
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 Re: Serious Indeed
According to Steve, justice is only for those who are willing to pay extortion. I don't know if you had noticed Steve, but in America, we believe that even the little guy is entitled to his day in court. That is why in our portrayal of Lady Justice, she is wearing a blindfold. Everyone is equal before the law. We are a country of laws and not men. When Drew Smith puts himself above the law, there is a system to put him back in his place.

It is very curious that the same people who would be so incensed, and rightly so, if we didn't provide impartial justice to an accused criminal, are more than willing to deny justice to a faithful group of Christians whose only crime is proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Anonymous
Posted: 2005/8/24 21:16  Updated: 2005/8/24 21:16
 Re: Serious Indeed
I'm not much given to idle speculation. But there is a process for these things, and I trust the system to work to resolve the issue. I suppose like most folks, if rules have broken there should be appropriate consequences. Likewise, I expect exhonoration for those cleared by the process. And I also have opinions like everyone else. The CT 6 (now 5) don't want to be part of that Episcopal Diocese. It is sort of like living in Dallas, but not wanting to be part of the state of Texas. And, in the same manner, there is no way to do that - Dallas can't be plucked out of the state of Texas. So, the parish really has two choices, stay, and remain a part of Texas, subject to the authority of Texas, or move somewhere else where it's more to their liking. The problem with these parishes is that they want it both ways. They want to be independant Texans, free to ignore the authority of the state of Texas. And after years of patient wrangling, the governor finally sent the posse in to remove the successionists from their offices. At nearly any time, these six parishes can reclaim their senses, and remain in the Episcopal Church. But that's unlikely. So they should leave. But they don't seem to have the integrity to do that either. So as a last resort, they may have to forceably be shown the door. It appears that we've come to that.

===============================
Poster: Kennjon Posted: 2005/8/24 19:03:12

Fr_Steve, if these allegations are proven, what will your reactions be, and what would you expect as the outcome of a trial?
Damascus
Posted: 2005/8/24 21:19  Updated: 2005/8/24 21:19
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 This Is Nonsense
If I watch someone break into and steal my car or shoot my dog, do I have to wait until a court has rendered a verdict to have an opinion? If Bob Duncan did to one of his liberal priests and parishes in Pittsburgh what Drew Smith did, I would be just as upset. It is not the man but the act that is despicable. Although in this case, I might be willing to concede that the man is despicable as well.
Anonymous
Posted: 2005/8/24 21:21  Updated: 2005/8/24 21:21
 Re: Serious Indeed
I just don't think it is out of line to expect these Sorry Six to honor their comittments that they voluntarily entered into. There are already 10,000 Christian sects. They can do whatever their little hearts desire. But they CHOSE to be Episcopalians. I couldn't care less how they pursue their ministry. But the Episcopal church cares very much that if you claim to be Episcopalian, you follow Episcopal polity. Nobody forced any of these folks to be Episcopalian. But once THEY chose to be Episcopalian, they are expected to follow the rules they VOLUNTARILY agreed to. And if not, say so, and leave.


=================================
Poster: Damascus Posted: 2005/8/24 19:09:15

According to Steve, justice is only for those who are willing to pay extortion. I don't know if you had noticed Steve, but in America, we believe that even the little guy is entitled to his day in court. That is why in our portrayal of Lady Justice, she is wearing a blindfold. Everyone is equal before the law. We are a country of laws and not men. When Drew Smith puts himself above the law, there is a system to put him back in is place.

It is very curious that the same people who would be so incensed, and rightly so, if we didn't provide impartial justice to an accused criminal, are more than willing to deny justice to a faithful group of Christians whose only crime is proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Traktaryan
Posted: 2005/8/24 21:33  Updated: 2005/8/24 21:33
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/16
From:
Posts: 706
 Re: Serious Indeed
Poster: Fr_Steve Posted: 2005/8/24 21:21:39

I just don't think it is out of line to expect these Sorry Six to honor their comittments that they voluntarily entered into. There are already 10,000 Christian sects. They can do whatever their little hearts desire. But they CHOSE to be Episcopalians. I couldn't care less how they pursue their ministry. But the Episcopal church cares very much that if you claim to be Episcopalian, you follow Episcopal polity. Nobody forced any of these folks to be Episcopalian. But once THEY chose to be Episcopalian, they are expected to follow the rules they VOLUNTARILY agreed to. And if not, say so, and leave.
======================================================

Opinion noted.

What about the legality of the Bishop's actions? Are these charges warranted? Under Canon and/or civil law, is it lawful for a bishop to break and enter, change locks, hack into a parish computer and seize confidential records? If, that is actually what happened.
Damascus
Posted: 2005/8/24 21:36  Updated: 2005/8/24 21:36
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 Re: CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bi
JimB01 says:

For us to pre-judge is simply wrong. The process is formalized, it will folow, and the results will be what they are. To claim as one poster does that the system is such that a person's politics pre-selects the judgement is to impune the integrity of the church's panel and court members. Charector assault is at best, sin.

You get the point exactly Jim, we are impugning the integrity of the church's panel and court members. I don't even know who they will be, but I know that the chance of them confirming the presentment against Drew Smith, no matter how incontrovertible the evidence may be (and I am not saying at this point that it is), is zero. Why am I so certain of this? Well Jim, there is a track record. If this church could not bring John Spong to trial or confirm a presentment against Bishop Righter, it is clear that nothing is going to happen to Drew Smith. Spong will come right out and deny most of the core doctrine of the church and his fellow bishops don't raise a whimper. Compared to the heretic Spong, Drew Smith is just a penny-ante tyrant. If they didn't do anything about Spong, they aren't going to do anything about Smith.
Anonymous
Posted: 2005/8/24 22:58  Updated: 2005/8/24 22:58
 Re: Serious Indeed
The legality of these issues is not a matter of opinion, but will be adjudicated. I support the adjudication system, and will support the conclusion. I suspect we agree?

===========================
Poster: Traktaryan Posted: 2005/8/24 19:33:53


What about the legality of the Bishop's actions? Are these charges warranted? Under Canon and/or civil law, is it lawful for a bishop to break and enter, change locks, hack into a parish computer and seize confidential records? If, that is actually what happened.
Damascus
Posted: 2005/8/24 23:59  Updated: 2005/8/25 0:17
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 Re: Serious Indeed
I believe that most of these men probably became priests before Drew Smith was a bishop and at a time when being an apostate was not a requirement for ordination in the Diocese of Connecticut.

It is curious how I went from being left-of-center in the Episcopal Church, to now being right-of-center, and my opinions have remained essentially the same. These priests haven't violated their commitments. They have remained faithful. It is people like you Steve, and Drew Smith, who have not remained faithful to the Episcopal Church. If you are indeed a priest, you should know that the loyalty to the bishop is not unconditional. Just as a soldier has a duty to disobey an unlawful order that is issued by his superior, a priest has a duty to live up to his own ordination vows, which may require that he resist the false teaching of his bishop. If Drew Smith should advocate for wife-swapping parties for his clergy, do you Steve, believe that the clergy have a duty to attend? There is a loyalty to the office of the bishop, and there is a loyalty to the man who occupies the office. I believe that these priests are loyal and obedient to the office of the bishop, that is why they have requested that they be placed under the supervision of a bishop who is worthy of their obedience.

I would think that even you would concede that there are two different theologies at work in the Episcopal Church. One is the one traditionally believed, and one is new. While I would like to think that people like you would return to the faith that your parents accepted for you in your baptismal vows and that you affirmed at your confirmation, I realize that may not happen. What surprises me, is your hostility to those who profess this traditional belief.

Let's forget for the moment that these priests have shown no desire to this point to leave the Episcopal Church. Drew Smith has made it clear that they will only be welcome in his diocese if they accept unquestioningly his leadership. That will make a split of some kind likely. While there may be a split, is it inevitable that it has to be so bitter? Why do you oppose a church, where an overwhelming majority of the parishioners profess the traditional faith, leaving and taking their property with them? Obviously, there is the matter of the loan to the diocese. Let’s assume that the church will settle its accounts with the diocese, and reach some settlement for any other contributions that the diocese may have made to the church. Given this, what is wrong with them leaving? What will it benefit Drew Smith to have another empty church in his diocese? That church was only marginally viable when it had an active and united congregation. Where will it be after Drew Smith's rented congregation goes home?

I hypothesize that there is a good reason why you want to crush the faithful. It is the same reason why the communists had to build the Berlin Wall. If you allow a free and fair competition in the marketplace of ideas, many Episcopalians will vote with their feet. You realize that many people's loyalties are more to their local parish than to the diocese or the national church. If whole churches could effortlessly quit ECUSA, quite a few would. Moreover, they wouldn't be the churches that had forty people on Sunday with a median age of 72. They would be the large and growing churches that help fill up the bishop's coffers. Just as the GDR (East Germany) faced an unsustainable brain drain to the West, ECUSA is suffering from a drain of its vitality.

Persecution of the faithful is the tyrant’s last hope of maintaining control and some semblance of prosperity. Make the stakes so high for those who think of leaving that many will stay and suffer. That was the rationale behind the walls and fences around East Germany. Shooting a few of those who dare to escape will give the others a reason to think twice. Is there any question that the Connecticut Six are analogous to East German dissidents and Drew Smith is analogous to an East German border guard? Just like in East Germany, where the vast majority of the drones were content to stay and toil away for the soulless communist state, many nominal Episcopalians will stay put no matter what. It is not necessarily the quantity of people that leave but the quality that will do in ECUSA. The only people who know how to plant and grow churches are the ones that are most likely to leave. ECUSA has a huge demographics problem, and the people who are most capable of solving it are being forced from the church.

Unfortunately for Drew Smith, just as West Germany became a successful and prosperous country while East Germany festered, the Episcopal Church will continue to decline. He imagines that taking these six parish’s buildings will have multiple benefits for him. Among these might be (1) making an example of them so others won’t follow (2) selling their property to make up for the loss in revenue to the diocese, and (3) slowing down the growth of their churches. I think the third reason is the one that has the most salience to Drew Smith. What greater rejection of the Episcopal Church could there be than for its cast-offs to grow into a larger and more significant denomination than ECUSA? ECUSA is proclaiming to be a prophetic church that is following God. Should ECUSA continue its decline while another church thrives in its place, would that not call into question the prophetic nature of ECUSA’s new religion? If it were truly of God, would it not ultimately prosper?

I suppose when I think about it rationally Steve, I can understand why you have such a hatred for the faithful. The vast majority of people in the Christian world rejects what you believe and endorses what we believe. You seem to have the misguided notion that damaging us is going to help you. It isn’t. People have already passed judgment on what you believe and they aren’t buying it. You will have to have a theology that people can believe in to sustain the Episcopal Church, and at the present time, there is none.

There is a possibly irreconcilable difference within this diocese. It is like going to a party at Drew Smith’s house and having a disagreement with the host. Instead of asking you nicely to leave, he has taken your clothes and car keys, things that you paid for with your own money, and thrown you out into the snow naked. He is now arguing that was the reasonable thing to do. If there is any justice within ECUSA (I doubt it), this presentment and his fellow bishops will force him to adopt a more reasonable attitude. Failing that, perhaps the secular courts will have to intervene. Although the courts tend to defer to canon law in such property disputes, by not following the canons of his own diocese, Drew Smith has opened himself up to civil litigation.
Orthodox1
Posted: 2005/8/25 0:03  Updated: 2005/8/25 0:03
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2005/8/24
From:
Posts: 35
 Court of Public Opinion Important Too
Dear Friends,

Let's not forget the importance of the court of public opinion in this matter.

What sort of a position is the church in if its leaders endorse Smith's actions by not sanctioning him?

Clearly, there will be consequences whether or not Bishop Smith is tried and convicted.

This is not a heresy trial, per se, as were the Spong and Righter trials. This is a trial over abuse of power. To be sure, Smith's heretic theology informed his bizarre actions. That's why the theological dispute was discussed in the document.

But ultimately, this presentment is over whether Smith acted lawfully, within the canons, or did not do so.

He has made public statements admitting that he did what he has been charged with doing.

So it appears that there will be no factual disputes -- on the surface -- only legal ones.
ArthurDoxy
Posted: 2005/8/25 1:07  Updated: 2005/8/25 1:08
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/3/1
From: Albany Diocese
Posts: 265
 Re: Serious Indeed
Steve Said: "I'm not much given to idle speculation."

Oh, yes you are! The only problem is that your logic is so convoluted, as in "twisted." I can't believe it, "Dallas and Texas?" Where'd you come up with that one? You can do better than that. How about a scenario based on "Who shot J.R.?"
frcochran
Posted: 2005/8/25 1:20  Updated: 2005/8/25 1:21
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/6/28
From:
Posts: 544
 Re: CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bi
JimB01,

For us to pre-judge is simply wrong. The process is formalized, it will folow, and the results will be what they are. To claim as one poster does that the system is such that a person's politics pre-selects the judgement is to impune the integrity of the church's panel and court members. Charector assault is at best, sin.

Yes it is true that I have no trust in any ECUSA panel or court. You say that for one to pre-judge is to impune the integrity of an ECUSA court. This statement assumes that there has been such a thing as integrity in such and ECUSA system.

I'm with Damascus, after one observes that the sun comes up every day in the East and then sets in the West you just come to expect such things. When there is no integrity in an institution such as ECUSA you just come to expect it. Jim (and Steve for that matter) I will apologize profusely if I am proven wrong.

Character Assault is indeed sin, but an observation of historical fact is not.

John+
frcochran
Posted: 2005/8/25 1:24  Updated: 2005/8/25 1:25
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/6/28
From:
Posts: 544
 Re: CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bi
One quick comment about ECUSA's lack of integrety:

Do an Internet search and find out why, how, and the circumstances surrounding +A. Donald Davies' ouster from the HOB.

He resigned from the HOB, his resignation was not accepted so that the HOB could kick him out (which is precisely what they did). Now, that's integrity--Heaven help us.

John+
Traktaryan
Posted: 2005/8/25 1:43  Updated: 2005/8/25 1:43
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/16
From:
Posts: 706
 Re: Serious Indeed
Poster: Fr_Steve Posted: 2005/8/24 22:58:51

The legality of these issues is not a matter of opinion, but will be adjudicated. I support the adjudication system, and will support the conclusion. I suspect we agree?
======================================================

Agreed.

Where I'm hazy is on matters of ownership. If the parish owns the property, including building and contents -- files, print and electronic -- then I could see the illegality of Bishop Smith's actions. If the Bishop or Diocese owns the property, then I'm not sure.

Apparently the people filing the charges believe it is worth their while.
Anonymous
Posted: 2005/8/25 2:01  Updated: 2005/8/25 2:01
 Re: Serious Indeed
Poster: Damascus Posted: 2005/8/24 21:59:39

I believe that most of these men probably became priests before Drew Smith was a bishop

<<<FS: Relevance? >>>

and at a time when being an apostate was not a requirement for ordination in the Diocese of Connecticut.


<<<FS: Please document your claim that apostasay is a requirement for ordination in this diocese.>>>

It is curious how I went from being left-of-center in the Episcopal Church, to now being right-of-center, and my opinions have remained essentially the same.

<<<FS: It is funny how the Sanhedrin were the respected leaders of Judaism before Jesus showed up, and spiritless religious dogmatists after, with opinions that remained essentially the same.>>>

These priests haven't violated their commitments. They have remained faithful.

<<<FS: I was sure that diocesan tithes were behind, the bishop was not welcome for visitations, and the parishes were not involved in the life of the diocese. Perhaps I was mistaken.>>>

It is people like you Steve, and Drew Smith, who have not remained faithful to the Episcopal Church.

<<<FS: That would sure surprise my parents and the oldtimers in my parish.>>>>

If you are indeed a priest, you should know that the loyalty to the bishop is not unconditional. Just as a soldier has a duty to disobey an unlawful order that is issued by his superior, a priest has a duty to live up to his own ordination vows, which may require that he resist the false teaching of his bishop.

<<<FS: Please show me the unlawful order that these priests were required to follow.>>>


If Drew Smith should advocate for wife-swapping parties for his clergy, do you Steve, believe that the clergy have a duty to attend?

<<<FS: If these priests should advocate for wife-swapping parties for his clergy, do you Damascus, believe that the Bishop has a duty to attend?>>>

There is a loyalty to the office of the bishop, and there is a loyalty to the man who occupies the office. I believe that these priests are loyal and obedient to the office of the bishop,

<<<FS: No, precisely wrong and precisely the problem here. They owe their diocesan bishop, regardless of the person, the respect of that position, and all the obedience and processes of the church. Nowhere in the ordination vows do they submit to the Bishop of their choosing, or the bishop who meets their checklist.>>>


that is why they have requested that they be placed under the supervision of a bishop who is worthy of their obedience.

I would think that even you would concede that there are two different theologies at work in the Episcopal Church.

<<<FS: Only two? Surely you've heard that if there are 3 Episcopalians gathered you will have 4 opinions. It is only recently and only in the camp of the self proclaimed orthodox that we started making lists of required dogma, and required an oath to be sworn to one list of dogma.>>>

One is the one traditionally believed,

<<<FS: That's part of the self delusion of the self labeled "orthodox". You see orthodoxy is a return to original values. What we both could catagorize as the current crop of "orthodox" are laughably fixated not on the original church, either the primitive church, the Roman church, or any other incantation of Anglicanism other than USA circa 1930. It rebeling against the prayer book of 1979, they went of course not to 1549, 1552, etc, etc, but predictably back to just the one prior. And that's orthodox?>>>

and one is new.

<<<FS: Actually, the case could be made that the Episcopal Church is the orthodox one, getting down to the roots of Christian expectations, and away from the superstitious dogma of mere men from the past century. And to Jesus, being made new, seeing things though God's sight, rather than the mortal eyes of men was quite a good thing.>>>

While I would like to think that people like you would return to the faith that your parents accepted

<<<FS: My parents told me that it was silly to believe the world was created in six 23 hour days, and they would not have tolerated an anti-gay church.>>>

for you in your baptismal vows and that you affirmed at your confirmation, I realize that may not happen. What surprises me, is your hostility to those who profess this traditional belief.

<<<FS: As you may have noticed, the majority of the Episcopal church is very open and accepting not just of other Christians, but of other faith traditions. We get what it means to be Christ-like in the world. And that applies to the self proclaimed orthodox in the church today. But the church is not tolerant towards those who would trash our church, and force us to believe as you would. Stay, believing differently is okay too. But anarchy and vandalizing the church is not.>>>


Let's forget for the moment that these priests have shown no desire to this point to leave the Episcopal Church.

<<<FS: Sorry, the facts say otherwise. And you just can't leave out the facts.>>>

Drew Smith has made it clear that they will only be welcome in his diocese if they accept unquestioningly his leadership.

<<<FS: Yes that's exactly correct, and the other side of the coin is that the Bishop will accept their very repugnant views in their parishes. It's a quid pro quo, an equal exchange where we can live together. Do you think Bishop Smith is pleased about what these priests are teaching their parishioners? What has always been offered is a mutual degree of tolerance. And if that can't be given, then out they must go.>>>

That will make a split of some kind likely. While there may be a split, is it inevitable that it has to be so bitter?

<<<FS: No, hasn't been in the past. There have been several breakaways in the history of the Episcopal Church. But this batch is different, refusing just to go, this minority is demanding that the majority capitulate, and failing that, calling in the big brother of the Anglican Communion to discipline ECUSA. I wonder too why the earlier models of breakaways with integrity is not being used now.>>>

Why do you oppose a church, where an overwhelming majority of the parishioners profess the traditional faith, leaving and taking their property with them?

<<<FS: I'm not so sure that I would oppose that. There have been a few parishes where that has been done quite amicably. That would be my fervent prayer as well.>>>


Obviously, there is the matter of the loan to the diocese. Let’s assume that the church will settle its accounts with the diocese, and reach some settlement for any other contributions that the diocese may have made to the church. Given this, what is wrong with them leaving?

<<<FS: I don't know enough of the details to have an opinion. But I always side with fairness and dealing in respect with others. It's too damn bad a war had to break out. I'm not sure there really will be any winners.>>>

What will it benefit Drew Smith to have another empty church in his diocese? That church was only marginally viable when it had an active and united congregation. Where will it be after Drew Smith's rented congregation goes home?

I hypothesize that there is a good reason why you want to crush the faithful.

<<<FS: I have no such desire. But I will fight hard against those who hate and want to hurt my church.>>>

It is the same reason why the communists had to build the Berlin Wall. If you allow a free and fair competition in the marketplace of ideas, many Episcopalians will vote with their feet. You realize that many people's loyalties are more to their local parish than to the diocese or the national church. If whole churches could effortlessly quit ECUSA, quite a few would.

<<<FS: If we truly are brothers and sisters, lets act like it. And you are right about loyalties being mostly local. The fact is that church following GC2003 was no different than the week before in nearly every parish in America. And frankly, it still hasn't changed much. But some of the "orthodox" aren't content to leave it at that, and want to make the Bishop of New Hampshire an issue in a 20 person congregation in Wyoming.>>>

Moreover, they wouldn't be the churches that had forty people on Sunday with a median age of 72. They would be the large and growing churches that help fill up the bishop's coffers. Just as the GDR (East Germany) faced an unsustainable brain drain to the West, ECUSA is suffering from a drain of its vitality.

Persecution of the faithful is the tyrant’s last hope of maintaining control and some semblance of prosperity.

<<<FS: And anarchy and vandalism are the acts of cowards and criminals. The self proclaimed orthodox have failed miserably to convince their fellow churchman to join their cause. And having failed miserably to honestly win control of the church, they are church haters, perfectly willing the destroy the church that their fellow church members still hold dear.>>>

Make the stakes so high for those who think of leaving that many will stay and suffer. That was the rationale behind the walls and fences around East Germany. Shooting a few of those who dare to escape will give the others a reason to think twice. Is there any question that the Connecticut Six are analogous to East German dissidents and Drew Smith is analogous to an East German border guard?

<<<FS: No, there's no question. It's a stupid and worthless analogy.>>>

Just like in East Germany, where the vast majority of the drones were content to stay and toil away for the soulless communist state, many nominal Episcopalians will stay put no matter what.

<<<FS: Past correcting your characterizations, then why don't you leave the church and it's members alone? You don't like things here? Fine, just go. But whacking grandma on the head on your way out the door is dispicable. And that's the great difference between this current generation of disaffected churchers compared to those in the past.>>>

It is not necessarily the quantity of people that leave but the quality that will do in ECUSA. The only people who know how to plant and grow churches are the ones that are most likely to leave. ECUSA has a huge demographics problem, and the people who are most capable of solving it are being forced from the church.

<<<FS: Then why the angst and excitability? If you really believe that, stand clear and watch it happen. Or maybe you think it wouldn't hurt just to give it a little shove to help topple it.>>>


Unfortunately for Drew Smith, just as West Germany became a successful and prosperous country while East Germany festered, the Episcopal Church will continue to decline. He imagines that taking these six parish’s buildings will have multiple benefits for him. Among these might be (1) making an example of them so others won’t follow (2) selling their property to make up for the loss in revenue to the diocese, and (3) slowing down the growth of their churches. I think the third reason is the one that has the most salience to Drew Smith. What greater rejection of the Episcopal Church could there be than for its cast-offs to grow into a larger and more significant denomination than ECUSA.

<<<FS: I am perfectly content to live with my choices. Why do you have such a problem with ME living MY choices? And if one equates size with truth, I would sure be careful. I don't make any such equivocation. As a matter of fact, just the opposite. I don't care if I'm the last person to stand with Jesus, I won't budge for popular opinion.>>>

ECUSA is proclaiming to be a prophetic church that is following God. Should ECUSA continue its decline while another church thrives in its place, would that not call into question the prophetic nature of ECUSA’s new religion?

<<<FS: No, see above. But if that works for you go for it, enjoy and prosper, please.>>>

I suppose when I think about it rationally Steve, I can understand why you have such a hatred for the faithful.

<<<FS: Oops, minus two points again. What you meant to say, is faithful to YOUR interpretation of things. How prideful to believe that only those that believe like you, EXACTLY like you, are faithful. I only hate anarchists who destroy, not build up.>>>

The vast majority of people in the Christian world rejects what you believe and endorses what we believe.

<<<FS: I agree and have no problem with that. Why should you?>>>

You seem to have the misguided notion that damaging us is going to help you.

<<<FS: Wrong roles again. I have no desire to damage you. But I am intent on stopping the vandalism in my church.>>>

It isn’t. People have already passed judgment on what you believe and they aren’t buying it. You will have to have a theology that people can believe in to sustain the Episcopal Church, and at the present time, there is none.

<<<FS: I appreciate your opinion. But with, or without your blessing, I and mine will remain in our church home, worshipping God how we see fit.>>>


There is a possibly irreconcilable difference within this diocese.

<<<FS: You think?>>>

It is like going to a party at Drew Smith’s house and having a disagreement with the host. Instead of asking you nicely to leave, he has taken your clothes and car keys, things that you paid for with your own money, and thrown you out into the snow. He is now arguing that was the reasonable thing to do.

<<<FS: No, nothing like that at all. You voluntarily signed a contract, made an agreement, made a vow before God, that you would obey me as your bishop. In practical terms, all that has required of you is to pay the dues, participate in family meetings, and let me come once a year to annoint new members. In exchange you get to use the family house and emblems. Although you got what you bargained for, you now want not to do the very small things that you have always been expected to do. You have breached the contract, so you are getting kicked out of the organization. That is the situation.>>>

If there is any justice within ECUSA (I doubt it), this presentment and his fellow bishops will force him to adopt a more reasonable attitude.

<<<FS: Just the opposite, in a major miscalculation on the part of the mutineers. You may get away with one bad act, perhaps two. But being so full of yourself that you think the tail can wag the dog, the reality of the situation will be made clear to you.>>>

Failing that, perhaps the secular courts will have to intervene. Although the courts tend to defer to canon law in such property disputes, by not following the canons of his own diocese, Drew Smith has opened himself up to civil litigation.

<<<FS: This is America, file away! But think about this. Why would anyone fight to stay in a church they hate? I will never understand that part.>>>
Anonymous
Posted: 2005/8/25 2:08  Updated: 2005/8/25 2:08
 Re: Serious Indeed
I hope you're sitting down for this one. I don't know a lot about it, but some of what I do know seems very unusual about the diocesan ownership of things that they never paid for. Maybe there is something that I don't understand. But I also know that there is precedent, and these things are regularly upheld. But in the Christian sense, it seems to me that a church solution would involve fairness and morality, not legal technicalities. Unfortunately, the air is so polluted with this "war" that makes such a think unlikely. We ought to be ashamed that this is happening in a church of all places. But, failing my dream plan for a negotiated secession, whatever the courts decide, I support.

=================================
Poster: Traktaryan Posted: 2005/8/24 23:43:50

Poster: Fr_Steve Posted: 2005/8/24 22:58:51

The legality of these issues is not a matter of opinion, but will be adjudicated. I support the adjudication system, and will support the conclusion. I suspect we agree?
======================================================

Agreed.

Where I'm hazy is on matters of ownership. If the parish owns the property, including building and contents -- files, print and electronic -- then I could see the illegality of Bishop Smith's actions. If the Bishop or Diocese owns the property, then I'm not sure.

Apparently the people filing the charges believe it is worth their while.
d_major_7
Posted: 2005/8/25 3:07  Updated: 2005/8/25 3:07
Quite a regular
Joined: 2005/1/18
From: Connecticut
Posts: 65
 Steve's such a charismatic guy, I can't seem to stop taking the bait...
<<<FS: I was sure that diocesan tithes were behind, the bishop was not welcome for visitations, and the parishes were not involved in the life of the diocese. Perhaps I was mistaken.>>>

Steve, perfect example of distorting the facts. There is no "tithe" there is a system of mutual support. But if you want to suggest to Smith that the 12.5% diocesan "asking" ought to be reduced to 10%, we would welcome your intervention.

Smith was explicitly welcome for visitation, just not presiding over eucharist. After all, he had already declared a state of broken communion; that would have made both he and the CT6 hypocrites.

One of the CT6 is (or was) a member of the "Bishop and Diocesan Executive Council." The 6 churches are regularly represented at diocesen convention.

<<<FS: Please show me the unlawful order that these priests were required to follow.>>>

Please show me the lawful order that these priests allegedly disobeyed. Oh, that's right, you can't because there was no trial and no evidence presented. At least Smith's rights are being honored.

See, despite your surrealistic interpretations, the CT6 respect the office of bishop and the canons of the Church enough to follow the process. Not long ago, many (possibly you among them) were saying "if these priests really believe they have been so maligned, why don't they stop whining and bring charges?" Well, OK, now they have.

<<<FS: Sorry, the facts say otherwise. And you just can't leave out the facts.>>>

Why can't we leave out facts? You do it all the time. Like that fact that Smith has violated the canons and his own oath, and in so doing has done much greater harm to the Church than these six priests combined. Oh, right, that has yet to be proven; but any allegations and mischaracterizations about the CT6 are unquestionable in STeve's mind.
mlwasp
Posted: 2005/8/25 8:28  Updated: 2005/8/25 8:28
Quite a regular
Joined: 2005/4/11
From: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 44
 Re: CONNECTICUT: Formal Presentment Charges Filed Against Bi
Bravo!!
jtaylor9
Posted: 2005/8/25 10:40  Updated: 2005/8/25 10:40
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2005/7/29
From: Farmington Hills, Michigan
Posts: 27
 What about other Connecticut parishes?
Being a veteran of a church fight, I appreciate the need for discretion. But what can be said about other Connecticut parishes, now that the presentment against Bishop Smith has been filed?
jimB01
Posted: 2005/8/25 20:25  Updated: 2005/8/25 20:25
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/10/29
From:
Posts: 144
 Re: This Is Nonsense
The cases you propose are not on point. A person does indeed have a right (I would claim duty) to resist violence offered to others (Jesus does not apply this to ourselves acting for ourselves) but otherwise, the rule is simple: call the cops. If to take your analogy to its next level, I find my car being stolen and start shooting, I can be held liable for murder, unless of course my infant daughter (had I one) is in the back seat.

FWIW
jimB
Damascus
Posted: 2005/8/25 21:16  Updated: 2005/8/25 21:16
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/26
From: Republic of Karelia
Posts: 640
 Re: This Is Nonsense
Jim:

Do you have some cognitive problems? Perhaps you have some problems with reading comprehension. Where in anything that I wrote do you read anything that could be remotely related to violence? I mentioned having an opinion. Perhaps in your world, having an opinion that disagrees with yours is a form of violence against you. That kind of thinking is becoming more and more common within the Episcopal Church of Frank Griswold and Gene Robinson, but here in the real world, most of us believe in looking at the facts and drawing appropriate inferences.

Your tactics are very common among fringe thinkers. He disagrees with me, therefore he hates me, therefore he intends violence against me. I am a victim. Woe is me.

If you can't argue a proposition on the facts and be compelling, perhaps you should avoid argument altogether.
Support VOL

Please support VirtueOnline with a tax deductible gift.


Your support of our ministry keeps the world informed with the truth!


   


VOL Sponsors



Global Anglican Theological Institute

Multi-Lingual Bible & Theological Education



GlobalAnglican.org
sponsored by VOL







St. Michael
the Archangel

Philadelphia, PA

http://www.anglicanphiladelphia.org

Traditional
Anglo-Catholic
Worship
for PA, NJ, DE

Worship at 8 & 10am
215 Belmont Ave
Bala Cynwyd, PA
215-247-1092
Anglican
Philadelphia.org





Contact Us for
advertising rates.