News : WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episcopal Church
Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Church
Woodbridge Men To Exchange Vows Despite Episcopal Ban
By Aymar Jean Washington
Washington Post Staff Writer
August 21, 2005
Last summer, a serendipitous encounter with a young, vivacious minister in Birkenstocks helped a Woodbridge couple find a church for their wedding ceremony. Their own church said no way.
Joseph and Kevin Seiger-Cottoms are gay, and their church, Olivet Episcopal Church in Alexandria, does not permit same-sex ceremonies. Although Virginia would not legally recognize their union, they wanted a church ceremony anyway -- even if it was a purely symbolic gesture.
Kevin, left, and Joseph Seiger-Cottoms arrange a display at Olivet Episcopal Church, where they worship but are not allowed to marry. Kevin, left, and Joseph Seiger-Cottoms arrange a display at Olivet Episcopal Church, where they worship but are not allowed to marry. (By Tetona Dunlap -- The Washington Post)
"It made us very upset that we could not have our ceremony at the church we currently attend," said Joseph, 38. "I do the flowers at the church, and I do flowers for other weddings that are held at the church, yet I cannot have my wedding ceremony there. Not even a blessing ceremony."
Some Episcopal dioceses outside Virginia allow such ceremonies, as do a handful of other churches, the couple soon learned.
After a chance meeting at a gay rights event, the Rev. Nancy McDonald Ladd told the two they would be welcome to exchange vows at Bull Run Unitarian Universalist Church in Manassas.
"Through Nancy's openness and her personality, we felt very comfortable," said Kevin, 30, who in October will commit to Joseph, his partner of more than four years. To further symbolize that commitment, Joseph and Kevin legally joined their surnames in June.
For Joseph, a legal assistant, and Kevin, a substitute teacher, going to Massachusetts, the only state that allows same-sex marriages, was out of the question because they did not want to leave behind family and friends. Joseph shares custody of 11-year-old twins with his ex-wife, and both have friends from their children's PTA, their church, a theater group and work colleagues. Signing a piece of paper was not what they wanted.
"We're going to actually experience the incredible feeling of both walking down the aisle of that church and being put in front of family and friends and taking vows and being able to look back on zillions of pictures," Joseph said. "That's a big deal to us."
The Unitarian Universalist Church advocates vigorously for gay rights and has done so since the 1960s. As the issue has roiled the country in recent years, the church has stepped up its activism and reaffirmed one of its seven core principles: promoting "the inherent worth and dignity of all people." Some of its churches have been performing same-sex ceremonies since the 1970s.
The stance on gay marriage, ministers say, has made the church particularly popular in the gay community. Ladd said she has seen an increased interest in the church from gays since the high court in Massachusetts allowed same-sex marriage. In her first year as minister, Ladd has officiated mostly gay weddings -- about a half-dozen, which is more than some churches three times bigger.
"I'm all too honored and saddened" to do the services, she said, "because gay couples need something that their home churches can't give them."
The Rev. Michael McGee, lead team minister of Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, concurs. "They find that this is a place that's friendly to them and speaks to their needs and speaks to their humanity."
With the United Church of Christ's endorsement of gay ceremonies early last month, advocates had much to celebrate this summer, including Canada and Spain becoming the third and fourth countries -- after the Netherlands and Belgium -- to formally legalize same-sex marriage. But in the United States, almost every state defines marriage as between a man and a woman. The law in Massachusetts is being challenged. Six other states provide some recognition of the relationships, ranging from civil unions to domestic partnerships that confer some, but not all, of the benefits of marriage.
Kevin and Joseph knew their marriage would not be legal when they became engaged in November, the month when 11 states amended their constitutions to ban same-sex marriage. But "you really can't wait for the state to validate your relationship," Kevin said.
And however heated the gay marriage debate is within their Episcopal church, Joseph and Kevin will not be leaving it anytime soon.
Though they are thankful to the Unitarian Universalists for welcoming them, they said they could not leave their home congregation, where they have participated in the children's ministry.
"People say to us, how can we go there?" Joseph said of the Episcopal church.
"Because we've been accepted," said Kevin, finishing his partner's sentence.
"They're a part of us," Joseph added.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/20/AR2005082001028.html
The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.
| Poster | Thread |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/21 17:35 Updated: 2005/8/21 17:35 |
 The wait is nearly overIt is a shame that committed couples such as this could not celebrate their committment in their own Episcopal parish. But that soon will not be the case. There is much work afoot to cleanse the church of it's sinful exclusionism and bigotry. As God as our foundation and our witness, accept our apology, and have faith that change is on it's way.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/21 18:37 Updated: 2005/8/21 18:37 |
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Re: The wait is nearly over Hey, Steve - change is not the only thing on the way - so is Judgment Day.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/21 18:47 Updated: 2005/8/21 18:47 |
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Bye, bye, sweet neo-con.... bye bye !!! .
Hmmm…. gay men participating from the children’s ministry? Sounds like a neo-con worst nightmare come to life. Apparently, these two self-confessed homosexuals have had a much more law-abiding behaviour towards minors than the hundred of closeted homosexuals who have raped thousands of children in the roman catholic church and cost their denomination millions and millions of dollars “that could well be spent in the church’s mission”. Didn’t anybody around here notice that? Good ol´ Esso (by the way… where is he these days? At some parents retreat with the Roman Catholic school that his children attend?) would be just appalled by all of this. I know this website exists with the sole purpose of deriding Anglicanism as we know it, but wouldn’t it be fair to give some coverage to the recent lawsuit, brought about by children -who were abused by a roman seminarian and whose sufferings were covered up by the Vatican downwards- that includes Pope Benedict himself as a defendant? And, maybe, just maybe, make some kind of connection with those “continuing churches” that are (even “bishop” David Moyer, is) looking towards Rome as their safe haven? |
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| frcochran | Posted: 2005/8/21 18:57 Updated: 2005/8/21 18:58 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 545 |
Re: Bye, bye, sweet neo-con.... bye bye !!! And somehow, as a result of reading the above rant, I am to come to the conclusion that homosexual behaviour is good?
My eyes are now somehow open to the righteousness of homosexual acts. Thanks frehao, I never looked at it this way. Because some Roman Catholic priests committed homosexual acts against innocent children, then blessing same sex unions is OK. What great rationale and command of the subject matter. You must have received an A+ in your logic class. John+ |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/21 19:30 Updated: 2005/8/21 19:30 |
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Re: The wait is nearly over What Mother Steve said after running it through the de-bullcrapalizer:
It is a shame that committed couples such as this could not celebrate their committment in their own Episcopal parish. But that soon will not be the case. There is much work afoot to cleanse the church of it's sinful exclusionism and bigotry. As (Satan) as our foundation and our witness, accept our apology, and have faith that change is on it's way I think this is hilariously tragic on two fronts....First, isn't it just classic that these two love birds find refuge from a female pastor of a Unitarian Church  Second, their Episcopal Church is just as funny...."OH....yes it's quite alright for you to tend to our flowers and children but...uh....hmmmm...no...no it's not ok to marry you guys. I mean why not....seems to me that the church is nearly Unitarian as it is. |
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| Festivus | Posted: 2005/8/21 19:33 Updated: 2005/8/21 19:33 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/12/2 From: Earth Posts: 240 |
Re: The wait is nearly over I want to say something on reply to Fr_Steve's post, but I am so dumbstruck. I think it stands on it's on merit, or lack thereof.
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/21 19:59 Updated: 2005/8/21 19:59 |
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Re: Bye, bye, sweet neo-con.... bye bye !!! .
John, You said “Because some Roman Catholic priests committed homosexual acts against innocent children, then blessing same sex unions is OK”. Well, you are entitled to your own opinion. But I didn´t say, nor I believe that, though. It´s too simplistic. But, then again, it is your opinion. I am awestruck to see that you´ve had such a radical change of heart. Or were you only trying to be funny and stuff? |
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| Fiona | Posted: 2005/8/21 21:20 Updated: 2005/8/21 21:20 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/1/18 From: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 1071 |
Re: The wait is nearly over It is a shame that committed couples such as this could not celebrate their committment in their own Episcopal parish. But that soon will not be the case. There is much work afoot to cleanse the church of it's sinful exclusionism and bigotry. As God as our foundation and our witness, accept our apology, and have faith that change is on it's way.
Right again, Steve-o and that's why you may call me a "Continuing Anglican" but not an Episcopalian. Fiona |
| mathman | Posted: 2005/8/21 21:54 Updated: 2005/8/21 21:54 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Rockville, MD Posts: 1134 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco Oh, yeah. Committed couples. Committed to the open and flagrant snubbing of the faith once delivered to the Saints.
Committed to the blatant defiance of the traditions and customs of 2000 years of the one Church. Committed to putting political correctness and trendiness before obedience. Go ahead, ECUSA. Over the cliff. It is a big first step. The end thereof is destruction. But go ahead. Oh, by the way. You will not feel better in the morning. Day does not come in Hell. |
| frcochran | Posted: 2005/8/21 22:09 Updated: 2005/8/21 22:11 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/28 From: Posts: 545 |
Re: Bye, bye, sweet neo-con.... bye bye !!! frehao,
The answer would be funny and stuff. I fail to see the relevance of the Roman Catholic problem with their pedophile priests and this homosexual couple mentioned in the above article. And, I certainly do not see how the recent Roman problem relates to the validity of this ceremony and rite this couple seeks from the Episcopal Church and then settles with the Unitarian folks. Their (being the homosexual couple in question) status as being two law abiding people some how validates their desire to make a mockery of the Sacrament of Matrimony? Frehao, I expect nothing less than them to be law abiding, just like I expect such behaviour from all people, myself included. My status of being a "law abider" does not somehow exempt me from my duty to God and man to resist sin. Likewise, the wrongs perpetrated by others (Roman Catholic priests in this instance) do not give me license to sin. Nor, does someone else's sin make me a better person no matter how much it has cost them financially. The point is the question, what is your point of bringing up other people's downfalls? Does it somehow justify homosexual acts in the eyes of God? These are issues of salvation, conversely these are also issues of damnation. Both of which are eternal. If homosexuality in some instances (namely within committed relationships) is righteous, then tell all of us why you believe this and why God has lied to us all this time because He says it is not righteous. Either you are correct or God is. Ultimately you and the other revisionists are arguing on behalf of unrepentant sin. For me I will stick with God's word. But, I am curious as to what your argument is. So far you have not given a coherent one. John+ |
| Kennjon | Posted: 2005/8/21 23:24 Updated: 2005/8/21 23:24 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/6/9 From: St Alban's Church, Los Banos, CA Posts: 221 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco GOOD!!
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| quitchurch | Posted: 2005/8/22 0:50 Updated: 2005/8/22 0:50 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2004/10/29 From: Western NY Posts: 9 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco Usually I just read Fr. Steves posts and love to read how much he gets everyone upset. This posting puts a smile on my face. The reason I am no longer Episcopalian(5th generation)is due to the fact that the Bible is no longer relevant to your church.
Our new Anglican church is Bible based. Imagine that, sermons on Sunday morning that teach the Bible. Bible study and pray groups. Fr. Steve, thank you for reminding me time and again how fortunate I am that people like you drove me away and eventually saved my soul. May the Lord open your eyes. |
| suthorpe | Posted: 2005/8/22 0:53 Updated: 2005/8/22 0:53 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/8/16 From: Washington DC/Boston MA Posts: 14 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco What's the big deal? - They can go to Massachusetts and the SSJE monks in Cambridge will marry them, they will even organize the reception, they are very good at that, Martha Stewart would be envious. They can have the reception in their garden, and Bishop Shaw can officiate, while the monk's choir sing Schubert's Ave Maria. That would be their dream wedding and they would feel like a fish in the water. For the honeymoon they can drive to Provincetown and have some fun.....
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| Frcorny | Posted: 2005/8/22 1:17 Updated: 2005/8/22 1:17 |
Quite a regular  Joined: 2005/2/20 From: Holy Cross, Warrensburgh, NY Posts: 68 |
Re: The wait is nearly over Sorry. Two men cannot be married. Two women cannot be married. Marriage is a Sacrament that the Holy Spirit blesses and it requires a man and a woman.No matter what an apostate church does, or what a civil government calls it, it is not marriage.
No matter how anyone "feels" about same sex relationships they fall outside natural, God designed order. HE is not that bad an engineer. To be brutally basic about it, if you take a male and a female and study them in their natural beauty, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out how sexual relations should work. Two males? Ahhhhhh... No. Two females? Hmmmmmmm .... No. Acting on same sex attraction is part of the FALL, a sinful act. It calls for repentance, God's forgiveness and the presence and strength of the Holy Spirit as the person practices abstinence. Just as divorce is a sin. Simply because people ignore Jesus' words and wallow in something does not make it Holy. |
| UncleDino | Posted: 2005/8/22 1:24 Updated: 2005/8/22 1:24 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2005/8/13 From: Posts: 33 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple There is no such thing as 'gay' marriage in Virginia. And the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia still officially defines marriage as between one man and one woman. This unitarian 'thing' is a sham at best.
So, these two fellows can call their arrangement whatever they want, but one thing is certain - it is NOT 'marriage'. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/8/22 2:04 Updated: 2005/8/22 2:04 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco Of course, two sodomites are 'married' if the Unitarian 'church' says so.
I married my two neighbor's male dogs the other day, so they must be married too. Essodalori |
| MarkP | Posted: 2005/8/22 2:32 Updated: 2005/8/22 2:33 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/11/11 From: Diocese of El Camino Real Posts: 320 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco "The Unitarian Universalist Church advocates vigorously for gay rights and has done so since the 1960s. As the issue has roiled the country in recent years, the church has stepped up its activism and reaffirmed one of its seven core principles: promoting "the inherent worth and dignity of all people."
So what else would you expect from a denomination that questions the divinity of Jesus Christ and considers Jesus merely as a great exemplar? By their fruit shall you know them, I think is the advice of Jesus... This is more of the gospel of "love the sin, love the sinner" instead of the righteous instruction "to hate the sin, love the sinner." |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/8/22 2:43 Updated: 2005/8/22 2:43 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco "This is more of the gospel of "love the sin, love the sinner" instead of the righteous instruction "to hate the sin, love the sinner.""
--- No, MarkP. Theirs is 'love the sin, hate the sinner,' for unrepentant sin endangers ones salvation. With much Christian love, Essodalori |
| SCTGDW | Posted: 2005/8/22 2:45 Updated: 2005/8/22 2:45 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2005/8/8 From: Posts: 23 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco Most comments lamenting the mournful immorality in ECUSA are cause for action, whether it be to rebuke privately or publicly, before taking other more drastic steps. But in reviewing Quitchurch's comments i find good news. Thanks for witnessing the work of the True God and sharing your concern for the eternal souls of those still in exile in ECUSA.
May Grace and peace be yours this day and always |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/8/22 3:16 Updated: 2005/8/22 3:16 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
Re: The wait is nearly over Hey Mother_Steve;
There is blood on your hands. Your guilt is as sure as that of the bartender who gives the drunk his next drink. You will pay for your sins in the afterlife -- and if current trends toward sanity continue, you will pay for your sins in this life, too. Face it Steve. The jig is up. You are Goering at Nuremburg. You are Stalin before Kruschev. You are the Jim Jones of the Episcopal Church. I damn you and your fellow travelling devils to hell for crimes against humanity and sins against Lord God Almighty. May he have mercy on your soul. |
| JimMcNeely | Posted: 2005/8/22 9:57 Updated: 2005/8/22 9:57 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/4/7 From: Posts: 701 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco If these two men are members of the local church they should be confronted for living "a notoriously evil life." If they do not repent, then their church membership should be suspended by the vestry.
In any case, I would inform both men that they are not welcome to take communion unless and until they are reconciled with Christ and the local congregation by repenting of their homosexual behavior which is clearly at variance with scripture and the teaching of the Anglican Communion. This is a pastoral no-brainer...unless you are a member of the Loon Left. |
| JimMcNeely | Posted: 2005/8/22 10:03 Updated: 2005/8/22 10:03 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/4/7 From: Posts: 701 |
Re: The wait is nearly over "There is much work afoot to cleanse the church of it's sinful exclusionism and bigotry"
Another of Steve's projective statements that is true. The Windsor Report and the decisions of the Global South will insure that the bigoted and exclusivist Loon Left bishops like Obergruppenfuehrers Smith, Bruno, Bennison, and Chane will be cleansed from Christ Church, just as surely as was Montanus. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/22 12:27 Updated: 2005/8/22 12:27 |
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Re: The wait is nearly over Hello Brother Joe;
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I'm high up on that list. But the grace of God which goes before me covers my sin. And be at peace, God will have mercy on our souls. He guarantees it. If it was a matter of justice, none would survive. =========================== Poster: Joe of the Mountain Posted: 2005/8/22 1:16:01 Hey Mother_Steve; There is blood on your hands. Your guilt is as sure as that of the bartender who gives the drunk his next drink. You will pay for your sins in the afterlife -- and if current trends toward sanity continue, you will pay for your sins in this life, too. Face it Steve. The jig is up. You are Goering at Nuremburg. You are Stalin before Kruschev. You are the Jim Jones of the Episcopal Church. I damn you and your fellow travelling devils to hell for crimes against humanity and sins against Lord God Almighty. May he have mercy on your soul. |
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| polyphemos | Posted: 2005/8/22 12:40 Updated: 2005/8/22 12:40 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/6/29 From: και Θηος δη μεχανη Posts: 631 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco OOOoooooooooo! Don't you just want to GUSH? I know I do! Either that or vomit profusely - it's all the same thing, really!
And then, the loving couple said,"They're a part of us." Or at least they left a piece of themselves there. DTWD  |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/8/22 13:07 Updated: 2005/8/22 13:07 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: WOODBRIDGE, VA: Couple Will Wed, but Not at Their Episco "The Unitarian Universalist Church advocates vigorously for gay rights..."
--- Now the Unitarian 'church' is into polygamy and polyandry and united groups of people who engage in (normal and deviant) sexual behavior with each other. As they state themselves, part of their purpose is to 'search for the truth.' Trouble is, they don't know where to look. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Traktaryan | Posted: 2005/8/22 14:07 Updated: 2005/8/22 14:07 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/7/16 From: Posts: 764 |
Re: The wait is nearly over Poster: Fr_Steve Posted: 2005/8/21 17:35:46
It is a shame that committed couples such as this could not celebrate their committment in their own Episcopal parish. But that soon will not be the case. There is much work afoot to cleanse the church of it's sinful exclusionism and bigotry. As God as our foundation and our witness, accept our apology, and have faith that change is on it's way. ====================================================== It is a shame that same-sex couples such as this have the idea that they ought to be able to celebrate their lifestyle in an Episcopal Church. That will never be the case. There is much work afoot to rid the church of truth and holiness. As God is our foundation and our witness, we accept your apology, and have faith that truth is on its way. |
| Traktaryan | Posted: 2005/8/22 14:18 Updated: 2005/8/22 14:18 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/16 From: Posts: 764 |
Unitarian Thread Apparently, others who post here are thinking along the same lines. Does this seem to be a likely scenario:
Since ECUSA is now barely distinguishable from the UUs (pronounced "yoo-yoos") in terms of theology (or atheology), doctrine, direction, progressiveness, inclusivity, etc. perhaps after GC2006 when ECUSA is jettisoned from the Anglican Communion, both ECUSA and the UUs will need each other to stay afloat. ECUSA will need money, the UUs will need a few more people. Looks like it could be a marriage made in ... well, not heaven, but .... somewhere. They could call themselves ECUUUSA. Seriously, the UU church and ECUSA are so much alike in so many ways, why not merge? It seems reasonable. |
| JRoss | Posted: 2005/8/22 15:26 Updated: 2005/8/22 15:26 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/3/15 From: New Jersey Posts: 904 |
Re: The wait is nearly over Steve writes:""Hello Brother Joe;
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I'm high up on that list. But the grace of God which goes before me covers my sin. And be at peace, God will have mercy on our souls. He guarantees it. If it was a matter of justice, none would survive.""" He guarantees no such thing, except that the gate is narrow. He gives mercy when one confesses, repents and begs for forgiveness. A man is anal bananad and God smiles on it? Men reject the Son and God smiles on that? |
| JRoss | Posted: 2005/8/22 15:27 Updated: 2005/8/22 15:27 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/3/15 From: New Jersey Posts: 904 |
Re: The wait is nearly over Steve writes:""Hello Brother Joe;
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I'm high up on that list. But the grace of God which goes before me covers my sin. And be at peace, God will have mercy on our souls. He guarantees it. If it was a matter of justice, none would survive.""" He guarantees no such thing, except that the gate is narrow. He gives mercy when one confesses, repents and begs for forgiveness. A man is anal bananad and God smiles on it? Men reject the Son and God smiles on that? |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/22 15:55 Updated: 2005/8/22 15:55 |
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Re: Unitarian Thread "Seriously, the UU church and ECUSA are so much alike in so many ways, why not merge? It seems reasonable."
____ Traktaryan, It would be reasonable, and it would be honest--which is precisely why the ECUSA would NOT do it. |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/8/22 16:39 Updated: 2005/8/22 16:41 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Unitarian Thread The only difference is this:
You don't have to profess a belief in God to be a UU; to be an Episcopalian, you have to profess a belief in God who has nothing to do with morality. If the ECUSAns can just be tolerant enough to allow for membership for those who don't believe in Godly morality because they don't believe in God to begin with, they'll be on the same page and ready for a full merger. Of course, such would be a major non-event anyway. There were more Catholic youth in the field listening to Pope Benedict in Cologne than there are ECUSAns which attend church on Sunday throughout the entire United States. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| JimMcNeely | Posted: 2005/8/22 17:11 Updated: 2005/8/22 17:11 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/4/7 From: Posts: 701 |
Re: Unitarian Thread Esso: as always a very cogent and pithy response. I do admire your writing skills!
I especially liked your parallel between the Roman Catholic World Youth Day and ECUSA. One church is growing by leaps and bounds because it has a message that does not change whenever the wind changes direction. The other is losing adherents faster than Twinkie's disappear at an Adkin's diet support group. There is something there for ECUSA...but I think the message is lost on her. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/22 20:19 Updated: 2005/8/22 20:19 |
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Re: Unitarian Thread "You don't have to profess a belief in God to be a UU; to be an Episcopalian, you have to profess a belief in God who has nothing to do with morality."
___ Esso, As always, I flatter myself by agreeing with you! But I would say (as I in effect said to Steve in another thread), the ECUSA and revisionists like Steve really do not believe in God, since, as you say, their God has nothing to do with morality and obedience. Consequently, the UU is, in fact, more honest and transparent than the ECUSA, which now only pretends to believe in God and now apparently teaches its seminarians: "Tell the sheep what they want to hear; indulge their delusions; and USE their gullible belief in God and the church as a tool for social causes you believe in." Mark |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/8/22 23:21 Updated: 2005/8/22 23:21 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Unitarian Thread "But I would say (as I in effect said to Steve in another thread), the ECUSA and revisionists like Steve really do not believe in God, since, as you say, their God has nothing to do with morality and obedience."
--- Yeah, I know what you mean. I think they think there's something there, but for them it has to do with 'feeling' good, like a cold beer on a hot day or something like that. In reality, God has to do with BEING good! With much Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/8/24 2:42 Updated: 2005/8/24 2:42 |
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Re: Unitarian Thread Did you really mean this? How humanist a thought! And very un-Christian. In Christianity 101, we learn that we cannot be good enough. For all fall short of the glory of God. And that's where grace comes in. I support being good, we should all do that of course. But that's not gonna get your ticket punched to heaven.
============================== Poster: essodalori Posted: 2005/8/22 21:21:10 In reality, God has to do with BEING good! |
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| gregory | Posted: 2005/8/24 10:53 Updated: 2005/8/24 10:53 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4481 |
Re: Unitarian Thread |
| Fiona | Posted: 2005/8/29 3:17 Updated: 2005/8/29 3:17 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/1/18 From: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 1071 |
Re: Unitarian Thread I saw the photo of these two love-birds and it appears that they also serve on the Altar Guild of their Episcopal Church. How sweet.
Fiona |
| gregory | Posted: 2005/8/29 11:23 Updated: 2005/8/29 11:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4481 |
Re: Unitarian Thread Fiona, please provide link of photo... TIA
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