News : Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activities
Largest, US Sexuality Survey In History Shows Gays Far More Likely To Engage In Criminal Activities
6/14/2005
COLORADO SPRINGS, CO., June 13, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A forty-eight page study to be published two weeks from now in the peer-reviewed journal, Psychological Reports, compares extensive and newly released Center for Disease Control (CDC) data, concluding that homosexuals are far more likely to engage in illegal and socially dangerous behaviour than heterosexuals. In fact, according to the study, homosexuals are over 12% more likely to have been booked for illegal activity than heterosexuals.
Dr. James Cameron of the Family Research Institute led and penned the report, which is based upon data gathered in 1996 by the CDC.
The National Household Survey of Drug Abuse (NHSDA) asked 12,381 respondents between the ages of 18 and 59, forty-six highly personal questions, spanning their age, race, and extensive details about their lifestyle and past history. In an interview with lifesitenews.com Dr. Cameron called the survey "the largest, most elegant sexuality survey in the history of the United states". He estimated the cost of conducting the study at $13 million.
The most remarkable thing about the NHSDA with its huge price-tag and its resultant controversial data, says Dr. Cameron, is that it hasn't become public until now. In fact, according to Cameron the CDC, by law, was supposed to release the results of the survey, but didn't. When Cameron got wind of it and personally hunted down the data "The National Center for Health Statistics had been sitting on it for a year."
Even now that this data has quietly become public "The CDC has essentially neglected it" remarked Cameron. In fact, only one minor paper on the whole survey has so far been published. "It's a shame that the largest and best sexuality study in the history of the United States is just sort of gathering dust on the shelf."
In a press release put out by his institute Cameron alleges that the study "was withheld from the general public because of its explosive content."
By conducting and publishing his study entitled, "Homosexual Sex As Harmful as Drug Abuse, Prostitution Or Smoking", Cameron set out to put the data to its intended use. "You'd have to have a gob of money [to conduct such a study]," said Cameron. "We couldn't have done it, and what is most impressive is that this is the CDC. They won't deny that they did the study, and they won't deny the data. Here's the CDC, staunchly homosexual," collecting data which proves the dangerous nature of homosexuality.
In order to make the study as scientific, comprehensive and as hard-hitting as possible, the study also compares the results of the current survey with other similar surveys, all of which, with minor exceptions, correspond to the Family Research Institute report.
The CDC itself compiled the data so as to compare the activities of those who engaged in the so-called "four recreations" (homosexuality, prostitution, illegal drug use and smoking) and those who had not. The Family Research Institute then compared this data accordingly, concluding that "Those who engaged in homosexuality were similar to those who used illegal drugs, participated in prostitution, or regularly smoked in disturbances of public health and social order. That is, similar patterns in the differences were evident in criminality, dangerousness, use of illegal substances, problems with substance use, mental health, and health costs."
The data for criminality indicated that 22.8% of homosexuals have been booked for committing a crime, compared to 11% of heterosexuals. This statistic held true for both gays and lesbians. "That's noteworthy," said Cameron, "It shows a rebellion, an unwillingness to go along with society."
The study also indicated an increase in the use of illegal substances, driving while intoxicated, and dangerous sexual practices, including intercourse with multiple and HIV+ partners.
Speaking on the import of his research Cameron remarked that "The scripture of the realm of modernity is scientific literature. And we want the Christian community to understand that the science is really very consistent, and highly concordant with the historic Christian position on homosexuality."
Dr. Cameron has long been a controversial character in the sociological/psychological world for his outspoken belief in the inherent dangers and immorality of homosexual behaviour. Some have asserted that his personal beliefs have influenced his research. Cameron, however, stands firmly behind his work and the scientific purity of his methods and conclusions.
Indeed, despite the taboo which certain pro-gay institutions, including the highly pro-gay American Psychological Association (APA), have attempted to attach to Cameron, the extent of his work into the subject has attracted a great deal of attention in the last number of years and his research has been widely cited.
In fact a Wall Street Journal article from April of this year reports that the journal in which Cameron publishes his work, Psychological Report, gives the necessary nod to the opinion of the APA and increases the number of peer reviewers from the usual four to as many as twenty-one before agreeing to publish his work. Following this extraordinary and unusual level of scientific rigour, Cameron's studies continue to be printed in the journal as perfectly acceptable work in the realm of comparative sexual research.
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/6/14 15:46 Updated: 2005/6/14 16:12 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
 Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal ActivWhen you deny the truth of your own body, when you deny the truth of what a loving God wants for you (which is to become like Christ), when you use others' bodies in a deviant and unnatural way, when you objectify lust and reject the natural purpose of our sexual organs, when you deny God's loving plan for marriage and sex, you do indeed have, as Dr. Cameron states, a rebel.
And rebelling against God and your own body (for which, the Bible tells us, a price was paid), is the stupidest and most self-damaging thing you can do in life (and with regard to the next). People who encourage and condone deviant homosexual behaviors are harming (spiritually, physically, emotionally and psychologically) those who engage in them. People who tell children that such behaviors are normal, good or Godly, abuse those children. We now live in a society which routinely abuses our children with regard to the non-stop promotion of homosexual behaviors (just turn on the TV if you are not sure of that). What have we become? (Answer: Gross and deviant and perverted rebels...) Today, on massresistance.blogspot.com, it's reported that the Boston Globe reports on an eight year-old boy who ran from the 'Gay' 'Pride' parade in Boston, after seeing men dressed in women's clothing, and engaged in simulated sexual acts. The parents and society abused that child. Shame on them. Shame on us all. That kid, in his innocence, knows more of what is Godly than we do - until society (and churches like ECUSA) pervert him, that is. Society, today, is a child molester. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Voyager | Posted: 2005/6/14 16:12 Updated: 2005/6/14 16:15 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/7/30 From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU). Posts: 1594 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ What matters is what illegal activity we are speaking of.............embezzlement ? There is at least one of the accused at Enron who was half a gay couple, and in the group indicted he will be statistically more significant than in the population as a whole.
There is so much from drugs to breaching sodomy laws and breaching dress codes, to DWI that can show up simply because these groups are out and about more than families and socialise in public. Far better would be a breakdown of the types of incident and frequency by age group and zipcode. I am not sure studies showing some minority group having a higher propensity to breaching social norms and to being more criminally inclined are either valid, or invalid; the conclusions lie in the data not the headline. One worrying thought...........what if such a study had shown homosexuals to be model citizens and responsible for significantly less crime pro rata than hetersexuals ? So off we go to read the article............... http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRR_04_12.html |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/6/14 16:24 Updated: 2005/6/14 16:30 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ "There is so much from drugs to breaching sodomy laws and breaching dress codes, to DWI that can show up simply because these groups are out and about more than families and socialise in public."
--- C'mon, Voyager. Anal sodomy is now 'protected' by our Constitution, 'gay' men routinely march down our streets with virtually nothing on at all (and in Cananda, with nothing on at all), engaged in feigned anal intercourse, and no one does anything about it at all, homosexuals are many times more likely to be alcoholics and drug abusers (numerous studies show), and to engage in physical abuse of sexual 'partners.' Male homosexuals are many times more likely to be teenage child molesters than are normal males, and many times more likely to be picked up for indecent behavior in public bathrooms and public parks. This study doesn't surprise me one bit. Essodalori |
| Voyager | Posted: 2005/6/14 17:00 Updated: 2005/6/14 17:00 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/30 From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU). Posts: 1594 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ This study doesn't surprise me one bit.
That's the problem Esso - it confirms your prejudices but as a matter of statistical relevance I like to see the data and the sample size. Have you read the report ? If it had concluded the opposite to your predisposed opinion would you have accepted it ? |
| warmac9999 | Posted: 2005/6/14 17:29 Updated: 2005/6/14 17:29 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/16 From: Posts: 1463 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ This is but the tip of the iceberg - no pun intended. Other studies show that molestation rates among homosexuals who provide foster care is quite high - with 2% of the population responsible for over 30% of the molestations in a couple of different studies in different states. There has been a concerted attempt to suppress any negative statistics, but the data simply leaks out from even the most pro-gay of organizations. Camerson's conclusion that homosexuals are societal rebels as opposed to individuals driven by genetic urges is compelling in light of the constant claims by homosexual advocates of the opposite.
The ECUSA is obviously driven by societal rebels, aka, revisionists who hate the constancy of Christianity. It is little wonder that they are "in bed" with the homosexual community. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/6/14 18:02 Updated: 2005/6/14 18:12 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ "That's the problem Esso - it confirms your prejudices..."
--- No, they are not my prejudices, Voyager. Numerous studies have shown that 1) homosexual men are far more likely to molest than normal men; 2) homosexual men and lesbians are far more likely to commit physical abuse against their partners; 3) homosexual mena and lesbians are far more likely to be alcoholic, to use drugs, to suffer from mental disorders, etc.; 4) homosexual men are far more likely than normal men to be arrested for indecent behavior in public places, etc. etc. etc. The Catholic Church scandal, in which more than 80% of the cases involved homosexual priests (a minority of priests) molesting teenage boys, also fits the same pattern. Same thing in the Catholic Church in the many other countries affected by this scandal (Poland, Canada, New Zealand, France, Austria, etc. etc.) As for your question, Voyager, that's like asking whether if a report came out tomorrow showing that the moon was really green, I would question it. Answer, yes - because such a report would not fit with other available evidence. This report does. Further, as Dr. Cameron's report will have been peer reviewed (in discriminatory fashion) by a score of other scientists (rather than four), I would expect that any major flaws in his methodology would have been revealed. Finally, warmac is right. ECUSA is led by rebels to God and society. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| rrchapman | Posted: 2005/6/14 20:00 Updated: 2005/6/14 20:00 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2005/6/14 From: Posts: 1 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ "The CDC itself compiled the data so as to compare the activities of those who engaged in the so-called "four recreations" (homosexuality, prostitution, illegal drug use and smoking) and those who had not."
Sounds like this study was out to confirm prejudices, intentionally or otherwise. Homosexuality is not a "recreation," just as heterosexuality is not a "recreation." What would the results have been if the four recreations were heterosexuality, prostitution, illegal drug use, and smoking? |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/6/15 4:10 Updated: 2005/6/15 4:10 |
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Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ rrchapman,
Since you may have missed my previous posts, I will say it again: There is NO scientific evidence that homosexuality is anything more than the arrested development of human beings, the which are naturally bi-sexual. Whatever it is that you think you know is not true, nor scientific, regardless of what political body endorses the stunted behavior. As far as statistics are concerned, there is no scientific evidence that statistics, as we know it, is a pure mathematical science without the consideration of Chaos Theory, as shown by two English mathematicians about two years ago. (almost three, now) You may say whatever flows into your mind. But if you think for one minute that anything you have heard or anything that you have been told is anything but boojum, when it comes to same sex activites, you are sadly mistaken. I hate to be so stern, but, there it is, as Fred the Great used to say. p |
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| Voyager | Posted: 2005/6/15 4:50 Updated: 2005/6/15 10:42 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/30 From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU). Posts: 1594 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ As far as statistics are concerned, there is no scientific evidence that statistics, as we know it, is a pure mathematical science without the consideration of Chaos Theory, as shown by two English mathematicians about two years ago. (almost three, now)
No, but we do know that there are methodologies relating to sample size, to sample selection, to randomisation of sampling, to use of control groups, to R2 fit and to the quality of the raw data, and that in the absence of these factors being made plain the proclamation of a result is but a newspaper headline. Why am I concerned about methodology ? I have heard of studies which reveal the propensity of Jews to be involved in financial fraud, there are Websites on the Net which will give you chapter and verse of reasons and conclusions: the one quoted above makes lesbian women more prone to criminality than heterosexual women; yet heterosexual women have very low rates of criminal activity compared to heterosexual men which is the basis no doubt of the proclaimed conclusion. I can well believe there are higher incidences of bi-polar disorder, BPD, ASPD etc among groups engaged in same-sex relationships and that impulsive-compulsive behaviour is more evident than in the general population................but let's remember that a "general" population is just that with a larger randomised sampling; whereas drug-abusing same-sex oriented individuals on drugs is a highly self-selected reference group. The correlation I know most commonly expressed is Heroin Addict = Shoplifter......................you can correlate smokers with general disregard for laws too and for generally anti-social attitudes. These reports have meaning if there are workable conclusions..............in Britain the Blair regime has instructed kindergarten staff to assess children of 3 years to see if they display latent criminal behaviour or anti-social attitudes.................now there is an analysis with a workable conclusion.. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/6/15 6:53 Updated: 2005/6/15 6:53 |
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Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ Statistics can be interpreted and manipulated to show whatever outcome one choses. However, when we talk of breaking the law, homosexuals engaged in more crime - I wonder if they would like to take into account if there are any sodomy laws still on the books anywhere - remember those?
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| mathman | Posted: 2005/6/15 11:46 Updated: 2005/6/15 11:46 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Rockville, MD Posts: 1064 |
Gay Statistics Pardon me, ladies and gentlemen. This is MY field. I am mathman.
Statistics is the collection and analysis of data. By its very nature, sampling (the usual method for collecting data) is very difficult. When you sample, if the sample is collected perfectly (introducing no bias whatever) you have an error due to the probability of your selection differing from the statistics of the population. This error of the sample is what is usually cited when poll results are quoted, and depends (roughly) on the size of the sample. Now comes the hard part. What are you measuring? In an ideal sample, you want to measure one quantity, keeping all of the other measurable quantities fixed. If you are measuring pieces of lumber, this is relatively straightforward. But suppose that your population varies in more than one way. In polling the attempt is made to sample in such a way that the demographics of the sample (how people are chosen by gender, race, income, housing, etc.) are the same as the demographics of the population. In medicine the medical conditions of the members of the sample should match the medical conditions of the population (for arthritis: age, years since onset, medications used, severity, incapacity, pain, etc). For this reason the FDA has the "gold standard" of placebo testing (half get the medication, half get a placebo, in a double blind manner). Oddly enough, one can even skew the test results by the manner in which the halves are chosen. Alternation (yes/no) does not give valid results. The yes/no must be assigned by using a random number generator. But how do you do this for homosexuality? Given the current privacy rules, how can the analyst be sure that the population has been properly charted? Is homosexuality measured by attraction? Or is homosexuality measured by behavior? Or is homosexuality measured by some genetic test? Or is there some other standard for assigning yes/no to the 'are you' question? Serious questions have been raised by others about the validity of the Kinsey study, for instance. Of course there are homosexual persons in the population. But to what extent? There is not even universal agreement on what sort of data collection technique to use to answer this question. If you have ever looked at a chi square table, you are aware of the extent to which false positives and false negatives will invalidate any sort of test. The analysis hits another roadblock when it comes to data collection for the four recreations. In court, a witness is deemed to be telling the truth so long as none of his/her testimony is effectively challenged. Once one statement of a witness is effectively shown to be false, the ENTIRE testimony of that witness is called into question. What I said above about privacy is overpowered by the individuals in the sample. What reason do the persons in the four recreations sample have to tell the truth? Are they able to tell the truth? Do they know what the truth is? Why should a person who has violated one form of law be assumed to be honest about violating another law? There has been a great rush to judgement in this area. The rush has not been verified by good math. I assert that one cannot measure what one cannot define. Some of you probably remember the great anger about the treatment of AIDS. In the 1980’s there were no treatments. Researchers had to first find a means to identify what the illness was. Yes, there were symptoms. Yes, a syndrome was established. But what did it point to? When I was young the thymus was still regarded as vestigial, and the entire immune response apparatus unrecognized. When my late father had TB, they simply surgically removed his lymph glands. No one had heard of T4 cells. How can you seriously consider a virus which attacks T4 cells if T4 cells have not been identified? Unless and until there is some general agreement on what we are talking about, there is going to be more heat than light here. For me, the NT will suffice. Sin is a bad idea. Sexual sin is one of the worst ideas. The NT is not subject to the sampling errors listed above. Paul, writing in Romans, is clear, pointed, and concise. I have said this before: if Paul is wrong about sexual sins as written in Romans, then Paul’s entire testimony is set at risk. Is that where we want to go? No salvation to the Gentiles? I don’t want to go there. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/6/15 13:48 Updated: 2005/6/15 13:48 |
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Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ I will humbly leave the statistical considerations to mathman!
Speaking from the perpsective of an attorney and part-time prosecutor, I will simply say, "it stands to reason." The law is about setting and enforcing "boundaries," is it not? And those boundaries, being "the law" are the last obstacle to someone whose conscience is inadequate to govern his behavior. My experience is the criminals do not honor "boundaries." They trespass; they speed; they use and sell CDS; they assualt others; they bounce checks. And if they cross one boundary, they're more likely to cross others. Countless defendants are caught with CDS when they're pulled over for speeding or DUI or because one taillight's busted. (If you or I were intent on CDS use and that was our only "vice," we'd bend over backwards not to get caught with the stuff by going 70 in a 55 mph zone, but these knuckleheads can't stop with breaking one law, the sky's the limit!) My experience is that those who don't recognize and honor one boundary, fail to recognize and honor others. They may have one boundary that they habitually cross, a predilection for one specific forbiden "territory," but the fact is that they are willing to "trespass" whenever is suits them. Why? Because they have no self-discipline and would set their own boundaries (which is to say, none)! If human sexual practice has boundaries (which (amazingly) is the ultimate question, isn't it?), even if those boundaries are moral or ethical and no longer enforced "legally" (i.e., sodomy), then the failure to recognize and honor whatever those boundaries are will likely correspond to a failure to recognize and honor other boundaries. And so, yes indeedy, someone who thinks sodomy is just dandy and has dispensed with that "boundary" is going to either dispense with all sexual boundaries or draw a new boundary somewhere else, isn't he? Then comes the rub! Why not put polygamy on "my" side of the line? Fornication anyone? How about pedophilia? Pederasty? And as these "new territories" get "surveyed" by the ECUSA's "explorers," they draw the line at "loving, committed relationships"! But whoops, that would include mothers and boomerang kids living together, or two spinsters. We don't want them in this new territory 'cause what we're really thinking about is sexual activity! And no, it's not sexual activity for purposes of procreation; children and parenthood are IRRELEVANT in this brave new world! So, in setting this revolutionary new boundary, we've got to add sodomists and yet exclude those in assexual relationships and those in polygmous relationships. "Oh gee, this gets challenging! Where to put the new line? How DO we explain it to people? Darn, it looks kind of like gerrymandering! Maybe they'll be too stupid to notice." Regardless of what the law says, remove a man's conscience and all bets are off! Oz hath spoken! |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/6/15 14:07 Updated: 2005/6/15 14:07 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ "Oz hath spoken!"
--- Thank you, oh Great and Terrible Oz, for having spoken what most people understand to be common sense. Once God's law means nothing to you, government law only means something to you if you are afraid of being caught. Intrinsically (in terms of right and wrong), it means nothing to you. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Voyager | Posted: 2005/6/15 14:29 Updated: 2005/6/15 14:30 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/30 From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU). Posts: 1594 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ Well Mathman that was a pretty basic explanation of sampling, but not particularly detailed. If you read the article you will find these were drug addicts who were identified as same-sex orientation............this tends to skew the sample towards the drug-user.
I find the notion of homosexuals as a criminal class marked by their deviancy from ordained social rules to make the proponents of such a view in need of therapy. It may be cultural, but why there is an attempt to de-personalise homosexuals I do not know; there is an ostensibly Christian view not universally upheld it is true, that the sinner is not regarded as badly as the sin..............but here we find that pink triangles and Paragraph 175 are order of the day. I think it is time to get away from hysterical attitudes and let rationality have some role. Clearly some would admire Islamic punishment of those in same-sex orientation; but at some stage reality has to enter the picture. Put plainly, I think the so-called report is skewed by wholly inadequate sampling; I would like to see if Republicans are moreprone to deviancy than Democrats; or Buick owners than Honda; and whether living in the South increases chances of divorce - and this is not exactly encouraged by the Bible. Divorce in the US increases as you move south and west; be interesting to know how many of these sampled homosexuals were once married, how many have children; how many are still married to opposite sex spouses. This subject is very complex but always simple when some lobby group gets a chance to put out some simple headline. This is how bin Laden works when he accuses Americans of every vice...............just as homosexuals irrespective of any personal characteristics are branded as criminal in everything because deviant in some things, so Muslims brand Americans as deviant and apostate in everything. It is time religion was not used to confirm prejudices. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/6/15 15:06 Updated: 2005/6/15 15:35 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ "I think it is time to get away from hysterical attitudes and let rationality have some role. Clearly some would admire Islamic punishment of those in same-sex orientation; but at some stage reality has to enter the picture."
--- Voyager, with all due respect (and I do respect you), what are you talking about? No one here even remotely suggested that homosexuals be punished in the Muslim way (or in any other way, for that matter). No one was hysterical (or are you suggesting that I was?). I simply made note that this professional and (enormously peer-reviewed) article came up with conclusions that have been widely shown to be the case in many, many other studies. That is not an hysterical statement; that is not advocating horrible punishments for anyone; that is not unreasonable (because it's true). The reality (which I would like to come back to) is that yes, homosexuals are more likely to be alcohol and drug-abusers, are more likely to molest, are more likely abuse each other physically and so on, are more likely to infect innocents with AIDs (a crime in some places) than non-homosexuals. We can do a study war if you want - but that is not the point. You are not refuting what I've stated; you're going at my (and others') characters. Please. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Voyager | Posted: 2005/6/15 16:02 Updated: 2005/6/15 16:05 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/30 From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU). Posts: 1594 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ No Esso my friend, I am concerned that in the haste to type words on the screen some imprecision is creeping in which changes the meaning of some comments.
Often on this site we reproduce the words ascribed to Dietrich Bonhoeffer and I think of them when I read such reports; I am very cautious at blanket condemnation. Some time ago I was in a German village and overhead three women in their seventies gossiping and they just casually mentioned some girl who was getting diivorced because her husband had run off with another man. It was weird to hear them talk about this in a matter-of-fact way - there was no option - but how exactly did that wife feel ? I wondered how she would tell people...............and then the full complexity of these issues became apparent for people dealing with it on the ground................I don't know if telling me that men who hang out in bars drink more, smoke more; that men who have same-sex relationships use amyl nitrate; that some are very violent, and others are victims of violence and suffer beatings is a revelation. I am howeever fearful that another study may find they are the victims of crime disproportionate to their percentage of the population that would be a disastrous conclusion. Collating all this together leads to the situation the Police in England are in of collating crimes with respect to sexual orientation...............read the site............... http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/hmpbcrbook.html http://www.met.police.uk/urhc/ http://www.met.police.uk/urhc/ho_fact6.pdf We end up in a complete mess................... I am wary of all reports, question all statistics, check all sample sizes, and believe nothing that is propagated in the media unless verified by something I can reference.............I live in a world of propaganda |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/6/15 16:09 Updated: 2005/6/15 16:11 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ "Often on this site we reproduce the words ascribed to Dietrich Bonhoeffer and I think of them when I read such reports; I am very cautious at blanket condemnation."
--- Well, Voyager - We all do live in a world of propaganda - and it is good to sort through it to find the truth. - But again, no one here (including me) blanketly condemned homosexuals. Right? I said they are rebelling against God (They are.), that such was damaging and self-destrutive and foolish. And I condemn the sins they engage in. I am commanded to (and I also understand why such is part of God's loving morality). With much Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/6/15 17:26 Updated: 2005/6/15 17:26 |
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Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ “concluding that homosexuals are far more likely to engage in illegal and socially dangerous behavior than heterosexuals. In fact, according to the study, homosexuals are over 12% more likely to have been booked for illegal activity than heterosexuals.”
“I am not sure studies showing some minority group having a higher propensity to breaching social norms and to being more criminally inclined are either valid, or invalid; the conclusions lie in the data not the headline.” ___ Hey voyager, First, I’m not sure I agree with the phrase “some minority group” as the predicate to the above proposition. It may beg the question. I don’t doubt that homosexuals are “in the” minority, but I think it’s a “behavioral” minority as opposed to a “natural” one (e.g., race, height, age, sex, etc.). I too respect you (and have been corrected/chastised by you in the past!). I do not live in a world of propaganda as you do, and I will not question your expertise about how data/statistics, and in turn, our views, are able to be manipulated. But I doubt that we’ll live long enough to see the sort of data you laudably desire on all of the issues that we must address. (I only expect to see all that data and the right conclusions in the next life(!), assuming I make it to where all the data is sound.) But I do need to reach some conclusions in this life and I must make do given what’s available right now! I’m not looking to have pre-conceived views confirmed. If, as you asked, “... such a study had shown homosexuals to be model citizens and responsible for significantly less crime pro rata than heterosexuals,” I would try to factor that in, to understand it. Yes, since it would contradict my reasoning to date, I would suspect it, but I would deal with it. As for me, homosexuality causes direct and indirect consequences. It causes sexual pleasure. It does not cause children. You can add other factors (e.g., whether it is practiced safely or unsafely, whether it’s “monogamous” or “polygamous” or “serially monogamous,” ... whatever) and produce other results. At its most “innocent” or harmless, it’s nothing but selfishness, which, when acted upon with even a consenting adult, can be argued to demean and degrade both participants, whether they know it or not. At its worst, it is deadly–but the same can be said of fornication. And so, I do not see how homosexuality “causes” crime in and of itself. It’s been a while, but I think drawing such a conclusion could be faulted as the logical fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc. What I am more interested in is what “causes” homosexuality. Yes, I am prejudiced on this point: I doubt that it’s pure nature. I doubt that criminality is pure nature. If I were shown data that showed a correlation of homosexuality and criminal activity (as this purports to do), I would not necessarily (and I don’t presently) conclude that the latter was caused by the former or vice versa. But I would be tempted to look for a shared cause or common denominator. Is this wrong? Based upon my own experience, my “bet” would be that the majority of crimes have among their causes the abuse of alcohol or drugs. Assuming there is a statistical correlation, I would not, however, conclude that alcohol or drug use cause the crimes to be committed. Rather, I would be more likely to conclude that they contributed to the circumstances that combined to produce such crimes and/or that those who abuse alcohol and drugs (and thus abuse their very selves) are more likely to abuse others. I tried to say essentially this in my prior post. This is why, regardless of the issues you’ve raised, I said, “it stands to reason.” By the same analysis, one could say that if one considers sodomy a form of abuse which includes an abuse of one’s self, then that would both predict and explain the correlation, would it not? My bet is that one could find similar correlations (although I would not speculate re. their magnitude) between heterosexuals who are preoccupied with pornography and crime. Again, it would not be that one causes the other but that we can better understand the cause of one by incorporating our knowledge (albeit finite) of the cause of the other. We fill in holes this way. Do you disagree? |
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| Voyager | Posted: 2005/6/15 17:45 Updated: 2005/6/15 17:45 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/30 From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU). Posts: 1594 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ Based upon my own experience, my “bet” would be that the majority of crimes have among their causes the abuse of alcohol or drugs. Assuming there is a statistical correlation, I would not, however, conclude that alcohol or drug use cause the crimes to be committed.
You won't find disagreement from me here...........I actually think there are afflictions like BPD - Borderline if you prefer, Anti-Social Personality Disorder, Impulsive-Compulsive Behaviour that cause persons to seek out dangerous activity, push the envelope without thinking of consequences; there are others who have no moral compass. Yes, I agree. My issue was solely with the headline of the piece............I do not like blanket assertions. I despise selfish inconsiderate behaviour, and there are attributes and behaviour patterns I condemn; and I do think society is an amoral mess; divorce is rife if persons actually bother first to get married...........it is a peculiar almost animalistic existence. I add one thought............if you have ever lived as a foreigner in a country, especially one where the language is not your own; you find usually in the first 9 months you have some contact with the police, you have confrontations with officialdom; you violate rules, face punishment or warnings...............traffic violations..........whatever.............yet if someone were to say "Those Americans are criminally inclined and wholly untrustworthy" you would be shocked...............that is why I believe we must know what "criminal" acts are meant................not accept the headline |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/6/15 17:50 Updated: 2005/6/15 17:50 |
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Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ Thanks for the reply.
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| gregory | Posted: 2005/6/15 18:30 Updated: 2005/6/15 18:30 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ ""You won't find disagreement from me here...........I actually think there are afflictions like BPD - Borderline if you prefer, Anti-Social Personality Disorder, Impulsive-Compulsive Behaviour that cause persons to seek out dangerous activity, push the envelope without thinking of consequences; there are others who have no moral compass. Yes, I agree.""
That statement really describes ecusa.... And they suffer from inumeracy and its consequeces. No Jesus Christ = no moral compass. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/6/16 5:31 Updated: 2005/6/16 5:31 |
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Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ Again, statistics can be interpreted and manipulated. Please do not interpret this the wrong way but I have seen the results of homosexuals involved in the life of certain cities, Miami Beach for example. The homosexual community is largely responsible for the revival of certain cities and their historic districts. They take pride in their communities and there are many that I know personally who are against "same sex marriages" - I also know a couple of celibate homosexual priests. I think we have to keep this all in perspective and keep our eye on the problem so as not to buy into the prevalent homosexual argument that "straights" are homophobic.
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/6/16 11:28 Updated: 2005/6/16 11:31 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ Homophobia, geoff, means 'inordinate fear of homosexuals.'
I know of not one person who is homophobic. If homophobia is taken to mean disgust at the thought of one man's trying to copulate with another, or with two men's kissing each other - or with our kids envisioning the first or seeing the latter - then homophobia is a normal and good thing, common to all men since the beginning of time - and is something that need not be apoligized for at all. I WANT my kids to be disgusted by the thought of homosexual acts (while still Christianly loving the people who are drawn to that depravity). My kids would be less than human and less than Godly in some way if they were not. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/6/16 14:23 Updated: 2005/6/16 14:23 |
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Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ Geoff,
One of the best and most useful post-graduate courses I ever took was in psycholinguistics, wherein I learned that if one wants to control the debate/discourse in a dishonest way, one starts by utilizing terms whose connotations favor one's position. Since the garden of Eden, to name something has been to have authority over it and control it. Examples abound in political discourse (“S.D.I.” versus “Star Wars” being but one.) I would say that “homophobia” doesn’t exist, or that if it does, it is negligible in numbers. The term is entirely bogus. First it uses “homo,” which supposedly refers to a class of people, rather than a type of behavior. Second, it uses “phobia” which inaccurately describes (and demeans) the motives of those who are opposed to whatever is meant by “homo.” “Homophobia” thus is a word invented by homosexuals to impugn the motives of those who are opposed to sodomy. None of the rest of us should utilize the word "homophobia" except to discredit it. What, however, IS a very real phenomenon could more accurately be called "homocontemptus," which would denote and connote a revulsion at the practice of sodomy and a contempt for the benighted and enslaved souls who engage in it and are proud of it. We therefore need to be wary not of “fearing” homosexuals but of hating them. We are to hate only the sin and to love the sinner. However, this raises the question, “What is a homosexual?” In your post you say, “I also know a couple of celibate homosexual priests.” So, I ask you, is someone who is celibate “a homosexual”? I am not sure I know the answer to this question myself, but I think we all need to think about what we mean if we say that someone who is celibate is a homosexual. I think when we do so we may be unwittingly yielding to the opposition’s construct–that those who commit sodomy do so because it is ordained by God and not because they accede to an impulse that is, in fact, contrary to the will of God. For example, if one "feels" same-sex attraction, and disciplines oneself in celibacy, why would we call such a one a "homosexual" any more than we would call a heterosexual who is attracted to members of the opposite sex and restrains himself from acting on them a fornicator? Perhaps, then, we should cease using the term “homo” and rely of some word that more accurately reflects what we oppose--sodomy. Perhaps we should stop using the term “homosexual” entirely, stop using the phrase “practicing homosexual” and instead use the term “sodomist.” This would clarify that our revulsion is with the act and the person when he commits the act, and not with people who may merely be tempted to commit the act. We must all discipline ourselves to use precise language for it is the front line in this WAR! The prevalent misunderstanding of Christ’s statement re. “lust in one’s heart” notwithstanding, we must restore and maintain the distinction between temptation and sin. Without this distinction, the very word “sinner” becomes meaningless, as all who have been tempted become sinners by such fallacious reasoning. Sorry if this has sounded pedantic! |
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| gregory | Posted: 2005/6/17 11:10 Updated: 2005/6/17 11:15 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ stoneridge, Thank you for the start of a very important point. i will try to heed what you have posted.
Sodomite goes with all the other 'ites in the OT, right? one example, from this morning prayer, Judges 7: 25: And they took two princes of the Midianites, Oreb and Zeeb; and they slew Oreb upon the rock Oreb, and Zeeb they slew at the winepress of Zeeb, and pursued Midian, and brought the heads of Oreb and Zeeb to Gideon on the other side Jordan. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/6/17 12:32 Updated: 2005/6/17 13:06 |
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Re: Sexuality Study Shows Gays Engage in more Criminal Activ "Sodomite goes with all the other 'ites in the OT, right?"
Gregory, Well ..., "yes" and "no." Linguistically you're correct, but you're mixing apples and oranges since I used the word "sodomist," with a small "s," not "Sodomite." Indeed, since I'm not sure what the passage re. the slaying of the Midianites has got to do with it (since we don't slay any one, much less merely because of the "stem" before the "-ite"(!), (besides, why not single out some reference to "Israel-ites"?)), I get the sense you may be trying to "bait" me and see what I'll say! If so, no matter, I won't bite(!) and I thank you because I think you have intentionally or unintentionally made exactly the point I was trying to make. Pay attention to the difference between the suffixes "-ite" and "-ist." "-ite" reflects a nationality, tribe or place of origin while "-ist" reflects a noun form of a verb, denoting one who does the action of the verb. So a sodomist is one who commits the act of sodomy and a Sodomite is merely a person from Sodom. Lot would have been a Sodomite but most definitely not a sodomist. You have confirmed my point in that calling one a "homosexual" is analagous to calling one a Sodomite (in that it may reflect a "starting point" or "place of origin," i.e., an inclination, predisposition). My point was indeed that there are Sodomites, and then there are sodomists. We do not judge people by where they come from, but we do judge what they DO and exhort them not to do it! Mark |
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