From mental disorder to civil-rights cause
INTERVIEW: Psychiatrist and Princeton law professor traces the advances of the gay-rights agenda in science and the law to a common source: political intimidation
by Marvin Olasky
PRINCETON, N.J.-A big contributor to the gay movement's political success is the portrayal of homosexuality as an orientation over which individuals have no control. Jeffrey Satinover, author of Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth (Baker Books, 1996) and other books, has practiced psychiatry since 1986 and come to a different understanding, which he explained at a recent conference of the Witherspoon Institute here.
Dr. Satinover is a graduate of M.I.T. (Humanities and Science), Harvard (Clinical Psychology), and Yale (Physics), and received an M.D. from the University of Texas Medical School. He presently conducts research into complex systems at the National Center for Scientific Research at the University of Nice in France and teaches civil liberties and constitutional law part-time at Princeton.
WORLD: You've argued, against today's conventional wisdom, that the idea of "sexual orientation" is a fiction. What's the scientific evidence?
JS: A nationwide University of Chicago study of sexuality in America in 1994 concluded, ". . . it is patently false that homosexuality is a uniform attribute across individuals, that it is stable over time, and that it can be easily measured." Studies across the globe that have now sampled over 100,000 individuals have found the same.
We now know that in the majority of both men and women, "homosexuality," as defined by any scientifically rigorous criteria, spontaneously tends to "mutate" into heterosexuality over the course of a lifetime. The proportion of people who adopt a homosexual identity and the length of time they persist in holding on to it are affected primarily by environmental factors clearly identifiable in these epidemiologic studies. These factors-deemed "cultural" or "demographic"-include effects such as social networks, education, early sexual experiences, childhood sexual abuse, and cultural beliefs.
WORLD: How and why did the American Psychiatric Association misrepresent the evidence concerning homosexuality?
JS: In 1957, with quiet political support largely from the prominent UCLA psychiatrist Judd Marmor, Evelyn Hooker, an experimental psychologist (her expertise was with mice, not people) at UCLA, published a scientifically bogus paper that supposedly showed no differences in the psychopathology of homosexual and heterosexual males. In the late '60s she chaired a task force that excluded anyone who believed that there was anything in the least problematic with homosexuality-meaning she excluded the entire body of clinicians who until then had devoted their careers to the subject. She similarly ensured that all its mental-health members were collaborators of Alfred Kinsey.
Under the guise of its being a "mental-health" panel, and using the false cover of the Kinsey Report (which claimed to be scientific, but which even then had been long condemned by the American Statistical Association as invalid), Hooker's Task Force issued a set of "policy" recommendations based on the claim that homosexuality had been shown to be normal, a degree of bisexuality was the universal norm, and whatever unusual distress homosexuals might display was due to social prejudice. The elimination of all forms of social prejudice against homosexuality was a "mental-health" prerogative for the nation.
By the early '70s, Judd Marmor was on his way to the vice presidency of the American Psychiatric Association. He and a number of allies in the APA arranged to have outside gay activists disrupt APA meetings to protest the persistence of homosexuality as a diagnostic category within the APA's list of disorders. Eventually, these protests led to a series of meetings with the APA's "nomenclature committee" at which "research" was presented purportedly demonstrating no connection between homosexuality and psychopathology. These presentations were tendentious, the "research" consisting largely of Hooker's bogus work and Kinsey's data. With that, along with political pressure and the "civil-rights" argument, homosexuality was removed from the diagnostic manual.
Anyone who actually reads the studies examining the association between homosexuality and psychological disturbance will find a very strong association. What has never been clear until, perhaps, recently, is why. Perhaps the same problems that cause increased psychological distress also cause homosexuality. Perhaps homosexuality is an intrinsic psychopathology. Perhaps the social stigma experienced by being homosexual causes the psychological distress. Perhaps some unknown proportion of each. Perhaps some unknown proportion of each and a complex, nonlinear interaction among them over time. None of the early studies addressed these very obvious questions. They merely presumed the ideologically correct responses.
WORLD: How have Supreme Court decisions fit in with such misrepresentation?
JS: The mental-health organizations have submitted briefs to courts at every level, and have profoundly corrupted our understanding of human sexuality tacitly via their general influence. They influence judges' understanding before they become judges so that when a man or woman becomes a judge he is, for all purposes, an ignoramus with respect to homosexuality, full to the brim with sentimental platitudes.
These platitudinous outlooks "feel" deep, but are astoundingly shallow (the concept "sexual orientation" is an example-it is a "stopthought" that won't bear five minutes of serious scrutiny before dissolving into a welter of contradiction). But when a judge is handed an amicus brief that bears at its end a list of say five or 10 well-respected national or state mental-health professional organizations-he's impressed. Then he starts reading, and it's "The Emperor's New Robes." In learned-sounding terms, he's fed back all the nice-sounding pieties with which he's become familiar and comfortable. He doesn't have to stop and think for a second. He just has to be "nice."
So, over the years, the concept of "sexual orientation" has worked its way into the culture and up the court system to the level of the U.S. Supreme Court and in certain key state Supreme Court cases, especially in the Goodrich case in Massachusetts. The key U.S. Supreme Court cases are Romer and Lawrence. Leaving specific variations aside, all three approach homosexuality from the point of view of civil liberties-a misframing that goes all the way back to Hooker and the history I've mentioned.
It has been critical for the mental-health guilds to stand before the courts and say, "You see, your honors, we in particular, who are the very experts of what constitutes a mental disorder, proclaim that sexual orientation should not be discussed as a condition that is problematic and changeable, it is a normal and immutable state of the human being and therefore should be discussed in civil-rights terms, like race."
WORLD: How should the understanding that homosexuality is not a stable trait affect public policy?
JS: The entire legal argument (same-sex marriage, homosexual rights) rests upon the civil-rights argument, and this is based on the concept of "suspect class status." That's a technical term referring to the idea that you can define a group of people in some reasonable, meaningful way, and this definitional "boundary" results in their being subject to invidious discrimination.
The obvious example is being black. The way "suspect class status" is determined isn't totally mathematical, but it isn't totally fuzzy either. There's a good deal of common sense to it. We want to avoid having people cry "discrimination!" just when it suits them, in order to game the system. For example, I couldn't apply to the University of Michigan Law School as "black" under the recently decided affirmative-action decision because, having just returned from two weeks in the Caribbean, I've got such a terrific tan.
Since, to quote the University of Chicago study, "it is patently false that homosexuality is a uniform attribute across individuals, that it is stable over time, and that it can be easily measured," you have absolutely no basis whatsoever for building a "suspect class" out of it.
WORLD: How should that understanding affect the way individuals react to those who identify themselves as homosexual?
JS: What you're left with are human beings, no different than you or me, who are, of course, sexual beings. Like you and me, their sexuality is broken in a broken world. The notion that "homosexuals" are in effect a "different species" (different genes) is ludicrous beyond belief. There is not the slightest evidence for that as anyone who actually reads the studies (not reports on the studies) knows.
Of course as one grows and changes, one "grooves" a pathway that becomes embedded and increasingly difficult to alter. Of course a different innate disposition places one at a different "risk profile" for all sorts of different paths in life. So what else is new? It is also true that people do sometimes want to change, and some do and some don't. This is true of everything. It's also true that few good things in life are easy, and no achievement is ever perfect.
That said, we should remember that homosexuality has risen to the top of the social-policy agenda because of the utter wreck we all have made of family life over the past 50 years. This horror cannot be blamed on anyone but us. -*
END
| Poster | Thread |
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| essodalori | Posted: 2005/2/17 15:26 Updated: 2005/2/17 15:26 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
The entire homosexual movement, as Dr. Satinover points out, is based on several basic scientific lies (that sexual desire is immutable, that it is innate, that it is harmless, etc. etc.).
The entire homosexualist movement within the church is built on basic spiritual lies (that the Bible is not the inspired word of God, that our sexual organs do not have a Godly design and purpose, that chastity is not a Christian virtue, that unchastity is not sin, that sexual sin is not serious and does not jeopardize our salvations, etc. etc.). In both cases, we harm society, children and homosexuals themselves. That's unlove, and unChristian. Satan is laughing. With Christian love, Essodalori |
| db4him | Posted: 2005/2/17 16:42 Updated: 2005/2/17 16:42 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/5/19 From: Posts: 425 |
It is bad enough the mental health community has condemned homosexuals to their fate by giving them "normal" status; for the church to do the same with all the teaching of the Bible is an eternal death sentence for many.
There will be a day of reckoning! |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/2/17 16:48 Updated: 2005/2/17 16:55 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
True enough. But missing is a natural history of this physio-moral pathology:
1. Via molestation or other emotional trauma, homosex is transacted. 2. The soul's natural abhorrence is invoked; extreme guilt is expressed. 3. Because of a side effect of cognitive dissonance theory, the homosex is treated as a personal betrayal of one's own self... which 4. Forces a conflict between one's soul and his public face 5. In the case of militant homosexuals, the public face wins out and the inner self must be crushed. 6. This cannot be done--so the militant homosexual turns his conflict outward, to society at-large and a. tries to recruit others to assuage his guilt through seduction and molestation (i.e., "Misery loves company" or "But everyone else is doing it!!!") b. removes external benchmarks that reveal his own self-betrayal (e.g., the church, psychological standards, law, etc.) 7. Since both (a) and (b) entail immoral and illegal objectives, deception and manipulation must be used to effect the desired outcome 8. Standard agitation-propaganda methods are employed, legal technicalities are asserted, strategic "plants" into positions of authority are made or co-opted, all of which have the result of undermining established institutional prohibitions while building a propaganda case in favor of homosex 9. At some point, "critical mass" is achieved. There are sufficient "revisionist" elements to build a public case for the once unthinkable. Reference is made to numerous "authorities", "opinion polls" and such. 10. Peer pressure is exerted on the weak-minded who capitulate in the face of potential ridicule or ostracism 11. Nominal assent to homosex increases, fueled by the tyranny of "political correctness" which becomes a self-reinforcing means of political compulsion, exploiting the primal fears of the masses to silence the "outliers" as a means of self-protection (i.e., avoidance of the threat of ostracism). 12. The vicious cycle is in place, spiraling ever downward until it destroys itself from centrifugal force. We are presently at Stage 12, "Centrifugal Force". Truth of the matter is that Buggery Kills and soon, even the most deluded or traumatized of the militant homosexual will invoke the Instinct for Self-Preservation and modify his behavior accordingly, no matter what pressure his fellow psychotics bring to bear on him. Lessons learned: NIP THIS CRAP IN THE BUD. One must never allow the slightest bit of leeway when it comes to a civilization's core virtues. The inability to distinguish right and wrong, life-threatening v. life affirming, is the main fruit of the Industrial Revolution, which has disintermediated man from the stuff of life. Millions have died prematurely thanks to this evil (WWI & II, Bolshevik starvation of Ukraine, Stalin's purges, the Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot, Abortion, AIDS, etc.). Millions more, this time the weak-minded and gullible, will die as they delink their lives from their actions... "Sex, drugs and rock'n'roll" has already thinned the herd of inferior constitutions and those without the will to survive. Revisionism, in all its glory, will finally make Stalin's dream come true: "We will have fewer Russians, but better Russians". Indeed. For Russian, read "people". |
| Voyager | Posted: 2005/2/17 16:50 Updated: 2005/2/17 16:50 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/7/30 From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU). Posts: 1594 |
It is not a great revelation to me but it is nice to see it stated. I find the funniest reversal is that if a heterosexual is banged up in Huntsville or Atica or some other penitentiary and participates in homosexuality whilst incarcerated only to return to hetersexuality when in the company of women; under New Think he is a much greater Sinner than someone who does not revert to hetersexuality.
The New Gay theology states that really The Bible was condemning heterosexuals who engaged in same-sex relations not gays by orientation who engaged in same-sex relationships. This is the funniest part for me because it completely reverses the conventional approach, to be tolerant of men without women for finding surrogate sexual release. Now we are invited to condemn them for not being gay by orientation but merely by circumstance ! It is clear that homosexuality is deviant from the norm, how many Standard Deviations I don't know, but it is aberrant; and if this is nature or nurture is an interesting point, but the causation cannot be uniform since the behavioural characteristics are different. I think we live in an era of pseudo-scientific balderdash. The knowledge that Hitler had gassed quite a few groups he took exception to made it fashionable to identify with the victims and to create minorities to identify with. Again, I am amused because the T-4 Program killed off the mentally-ill and handicapped and I do not see any great lobby urging to be classified as genetically mentally ill or handicapped. It seems that "Gay Pride" has done nothing for the image of the mentally ill, except to claim that if those who engage in gay sex are disturbed psychologically or psychiatrically it is society's fault; and if they are unhappy, troubled, deviant, or asocial; they must be "closeted gays" persecuted by Society. It has all the hallmarks of the articulate arguing a case for the hell of it and making up the facts as they go along; society having gotten lazy and indulgent in the late 1950s never challenged such self-indlugent promotional material and let it take root. Damp spreads through the building unless it is aired and dried.......noone seems to have resisted the half-baked notions that have been pumped out as if factually based.......and not just in whether a gay act makes a man gay; or a gay man having sex with a woman is heterosexual..............it applies equally to global warming, and the rights of pink rabbits. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2005/2/17 17:44 Updated: 2005/2/17 17:44 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
"Lessons learned: NIP THIS CRAP IN THE BUD. One must never allow the slightest bit of leeway when it comes to a civilization's core virtues."
--- Thank you JoeAmes, for this great truth. So much crap was not nipped in the bud that society and the churches (which were supposed to nip crap in the bud to begin with), are now wading up to their noses in crap (and even trying to legitimize sexual pursuits involving crap). It's time to leave the sewage farm. The churches are supposed to offer a loving hand from the shore to those drowning in the sewage. Instead they jump in, grab the drowning and drown together. I dunno. Isn't that what hell is? With Christian love, Essodalori |
| mvinson | Posted: 2005/2/17 19:59 Updated: 2005/2/17 20:02 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/9/7 From: Posts: 3 |
Reminds me of a joke: A man condemned to hell, after being shown several rooms in which he could chose to spend eternity, was in a quandary. It seems that in every room he had seen, people were standing on their heads doing a variety of mundane tasks such as twiddling their thumbs, knitting or unraveling already knitted items. Thus, when he was shown the room with a large vat filled with souls wading in chest-deep sewage and drinking coffee, began to think, “Well, I would get used to the smell after a few centuries, and I do like coffee, plus I could talk to other folks…” So he told the demon guard that this was the room he chose for eternity. The demon directed him to the coffee urn and cups, the man poured himself a large mug, seasoned it to his taste and climbed into the vat. Just as he was beginning to talk with another inhabitant of the vat, an announcement boomed over the loudspeaker: “Alright, coffee break is over, everyone back on their heads!”
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| lkendall | Posted: 2005/3/3 17:42 Updated: 2005/3/3 17:42 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/3/3 From: Posts: 26 |
3/3/05
"We now know that in the majority of both men and women, "homosexuality," as defined by any scientifically rigorous criteria, spontaneously tends to "mutate" into heterosexuality over the course of a lifetime. The proportion of people who adopt a homosexual identity and the length of time they persist in holding on to it are affected primarily by environmental factors clearly identifiable in these epidemiologic studies. These factors-deemed "cultural" or "demographic"-include effects such as social networks, education, early sexual experiences, childhood sexual abuse, and cultural beliefs." I think that pornography should be added to the list of factors that delay the transition of people to a more heterosexual personality. There has never been a time that pornography has been more available (or relatively cheap). On the Internet, pornography accounts for a huge portion of the traffic and business. Accessing pornography over the Internet is more anonymous than going to stores, and offers instant gratification. Heterosexual people who are just curious can be exposed to homosexual practices from the safety of their computer terminal. Pornography has gone from being a crime to being acceptable. LK |

















