ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUSA PRIEST
By David W. Virtue
SCRANTON, PA (1/4/2005)--For the first time in the 137-year history of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Scranton, Bishop Joseph F. Martino will receive a married former Scranton Episcopal priest and father into the priesthood from the Episcopal Diocese of Bethlehem.
The Rev. Eric Bergman, an Anglo-Catholic priest at Good Shepherd Episcopal Church in Scranton's Green Ridge section in the liberal ECUSA diocese, renounced his orders effective December 31st and left the Episcopal Church over the church's acceptance of homosexuality and the consecration of an avowed homoerotic bishop to the episcopacy in the person of V. Gene Robinson.
In a phone call to VirtueOnline Fr. Bergman, 34, and the father of three children said, "I think that the ordination of Robinson is the logical conclusion of the contraceptive mentality. When Lambeth approved contraception for married couples in 1930 they set the stage for the Robinson consecration in 2003. You remove the marital act from its purpose and we bless sterile intercourse. It is not a big jump to bless then sterile homosexual intercourse."
Some 60 parishioners at Good Shepherd will follow the priest and become Roman Catholics. About 275 will remain in the Episcopal parish. The group leaving the Episcopal parish also includes a small group from St. Stephen's parish in Whitehall, the former parish of Fr. William Ilgenfritz, who recently left that parish for a parish in the Diocese of Pittsburgh.
In an open letter to the congregation Fr. Bergman wrote, "The events that have unfolded within the Episcopal Church USA and across the worldwide Anglican Communion can certainly be understood to be a catalyst that precipitated action on my part. That is, the election of an unmarried and unchaste man to the office of bishop demands a response from the faithful, particularly when the institutional response on the part of the Anglican Communion to this innovation has been so feeble. Nevertheless, I now view the incidents of General Convention 2003 as the logical outcome of a flawed orientation that betrays the Anglican Communion’s ability to proclaim the Good News, especially that truth that life comes to us through sacrifice. It is this orientation, ensconced in the teachings of the Anglican Communion for the past 74 years that finally led me to renounce my orders."
Episcopal Bishop Paul Marshall knew I was going to Rome and asked me to write this letter to the congregation on why I was leaving and renouncing my orders, Bergman told VirtueOnline.
Fr. Bergman, a Bethlehem native, will be received into the Roman Catholic Church through a process known as the "Pastoral Provision Decision," and will result in the conversion, priestly formation and potential ordination of Mr. Eric Bergman, a former priest of the Episcopal Diocese of Bethlehem, as a member of the clergy of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Scranton, said a press statement from the Roman Catholic diocese.
Bergman and his wife, Kristina, are the parents of three children, Clara, Eric and Julia, all of whom who will become Catholic.
The Pastoral Provision Decision, rendered in 1980 by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, came in response to a request from the North American Province of the Society of the Holy Cross, a secular institute of Anglican priests, whose married members wished to offer themselves for priestly ministry in the Roman Catholic Church, as well as lay Episcopalians who wished to enter the Catholic Church with a common spiritual and liturgical identity.
In its acceptance of former married Episcopalian clergy as clergy of the Roman Catholic Church, the Pastoral Provision Decision grants a special exception to the Roman Catholic Church's rule of mandatory priestly celibacy. However, the Decision stressed that this particular exclusion "should not be understood as implying any change in the Church's conviction of the value of priestly celibacy, which will remain the rule for future candidates for the priesthood from this group."
"I warmly welcome Mr. Bergman, his family and members of his former lay community on their new faith journey to become Roman Catholic," said Bishop Martino. "We assure them all of our prayers and complete cooperation as they take the initial steps toward full communion with the Roman Catholic Church in the Diocese of Scranton," the bishop stated.
Bishop Martino said that the Diocese of Scranton and Mr. Bergman have taken initial steps to begin the conversion/ordination process established through the Pastoral Provision Decision. The steps include preparation and submission of a dossier, or report, containing required documents which will accompany Mr. Bergman's petition to the Holy See for priesthood and incardination, or service to the Diocese of Scranton.
Fr. Bergman told VirtueOnline that his new congregation will use the Book of Divine
Worship published in 2003 in which elements of the Book of Common Prayer are revised and adapted according to the Roman Rite for use by Roman Catholics coming from the Anglican tradition.
On January 2, Bishop Martino announced that Mr. Bergman will become Executive Director of the newly-formed St. Thomas More Society of St. Clare's Church in the Green Ridge section of Scranton. Members of the St. Thomas More Society of St. Clare's Church will provide for the temporal needs of Mr. Bergman and study with him in preparation to enter the Catholic Church. Mr. Bergman said that membership in the St. Thomas More Society is open to all former Anglicans or Episcopalians.
To date, the Holy See has permitted the ordination of a number of former Anglican or Episcopal priests who have become Catholic in the U.S., Canada and Great Britain.
Episcopal Bishop Paul Marshall was in Africa and could not be reached for comment.
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| Poster | Thread |
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| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2005/1/4 15:31 Updated: 2005/1/4 15:31 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
 Re: ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUSA tragic loss for the Episcopal church and quite the gain for the Church of Rome. I'm not sure his situation will be improved however. ECUSA and Rome both suffer from the same illness, although the symptoms are different. One, in its arrogance, is proud of its sinful rebellion as was Soddom; the other, in its arrogance, hides its sinful rebellion as Cain hid from Yahweh.
It seems to me a sign of the vestigal integrity of ECUSA that it is fighitng its fight publicly, "open kimono" as they say, letting the chips fall where they may. (As it happens, Marshall recently wrote a history of the early Episcopal church and its controversies at the time of the Founding Fathers. Open, virulent and near-violent debate is hardly new to our time...) Open debate is the way we Americans settle our great controversies. If some of us prefer the surety and comfort of an all-powerful king--or a pope--then they renounce their essential American spirit for the fear in their hearts. Thankfully, our Founding Fathers and their Protestant fathers before them were made of sterner stuff. Or we'd all be Roman Catholics, converted at the end of a bayonet or martyred on a pyre, Thomas Cranmer's wartime decisions not withstanding. Seems to me a little bit of social discomfort is a small sacrifice compared to theirs. Or that of our Lord Jesus. |
| jww32252 | Posted: 2005/1/4 16:11 Updated: 2005/1/4 16:11 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 20 |
 Re: ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUSGoing to Rome is not as easy as it seems. For a priest, it is a mattar of at least three years preparation with no guarantees. As I understand it, (someone please correct me if I am wrong) one must be re-baptized into the "One True Church" which implies that Episcopal baptisms are not valid and one must then go through priestly formation all over again before being re-ordained. Once in, old guard RC priests and the "pink mafia" closeted gay RC priests who now hold powerful ecclesiatical positions can make life very difficult for a married priest. Lastly, there is the Vatican II liturgies and music which are dreadful in style and substance. Revisionism is alive and well in the RC Church too! Of course, being able to run an Anglican use parish within the RC may be a viable option, but there is only one operating in the US today. The RCs need priests for their own parishes. Once in, would the old Anglican be assigned to a backwater ethnic RC parish instead being permitted to do an Anglican Rite parish? Such considerations make the Continuing Churches look good by comparison!
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| gregory | Posted: 2005/1/4 17:13 Updated: 2005/1/5 10:03 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/8/4 From: Nflorida Posts: 4436 |
Re: ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUS The RC Church has done much to correct the failings of mostly American clergy and seminaries. I found the following book to very informative and helped me to correct my false assumptions about the Roman Catholic Church.
The Courage to Be Catholic: Crisis, Reform, and the Future of the Church by George Weigel http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0465092608/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-6463150-5096865#reader-link ""the "pink mafia" closeted gay RC priests who now hold powerful ecclesiatical positions can make life very difficult for a married priest"" Although this may have been true in the past, much has been done in the last couple of years to correct the seminaries and most of the gays priests have been given the boot out of the RC church. Which is much different from what we have seen in ECUSA. Merry Christmas day 11 |
| clee676 | Posted: 2005/1/4 18:35 Updated: 2005/1/4 18:45 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/1/4 From: Posts: 1 |
Re: ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUS As a married former ECUSA priest ('64-'85) happily received into the Catholic Church under terms of the Pastoral Provision and ordained both deacon and priest in '86, now retired following assisgnments in a college chaplaincy, as assistant in a very large parish, and lastly as a parish Pastor, I can understand the transitions ahead for Fr. Bergman, his wife and children, his parishioners who are accompanying him as well as his former parishioners who remain in ECUSA. I'd like to suggest to all readers two internet sites for answers to the many questions being raised here: www.pastoralprovision.org and www.chnetwork.org. The CHN forum should prove particularly enlightening. Many Blessings in your spiritual journey. Fr. G.
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| morrismpls | Posted: 2005/1/4 21:25 Updated: 2005/1/4 21:25 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 496 |
Re: ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUS Persons who become Roman Catholic from other denominations do NOT need to be rebaptized as long as it was done in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. So most mainline Protestants are good in that regard.
The Roman church does not recognize Protestant Confirmations or Holy Orders due to the Roman church having ruled the invalidity of Apostolic Succession in all groups other than themselves and the Orthodox. There are many rumors of the power of the "pink mafia" within the American Roman church, but at least they can maintain the veneer of official Roman Catholic teachings, whereas Anglicans cannot. |
| TexasBill5 | Posted: 2005/1/5 2:19 Updated: 2005/1/5 2:22 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/9/27 From: Posts: 4 |
Re: ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUS To jww32252 and others:
I am a former Episcopalian (for 54 years, as a matter of fact) but am now Roman Catholic. In response to some of your comments, permit me to reiterate that the Roman Catholic Church does NOT require re-baptism of anyone who has been validly baptised in another Christian faith. The Roman Church recognizes the sacrament of Baptism throughout the Christian world. Also, with respect to something else you wrote: An Episcopal priest does not normally have to spend several years in training. My former Episcopal priest here in Texas became a Roman priest after less than a year of preparation. Each individual case is somewhat different. As for other Anglican-Use parishes, you are mistaken to say there currently is only one. Quite to the contrary, there are five or six, at least, that I know of. In fact, the Dallas-Fort Worth area has one Anglican Use parish, and so does Houston, San Antonio, and Corpus Christi--all in Texas. I've attended the one in Arlington, Texas (in the Dallas-Fort Worth area) and the one in San Antonio. Regarding the so-called homosexual "pink mafia," yes such a horror has existed, although less so now than in the past. But you greatly exaggerate its influence and impact in most places. There are some Roman Catholic dioceses in which it is still a problem, but most dioceses are orthodox and have good bishops who are working to ensure that their priests are morally fit for their calling. Truthfully, the vast majority of Roman Catholic priests are godly, chaste men who do the best they can with a difficult life of noble sacrifice. They've gotten a bad rap from the relatively few but notorious rotten apples. |
| jww32252 | Posted: 2005/1/5 12:16 Updated: 2005/1/5 12:16 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 20 |
Re: SCRANTON, PA: Roman Catholic Diocese To Receive First EC Many thanks to all who have responded with clarification (and charity) to my initial comments on reception. Very enlightening and helpful! A Blessed Epiphany to all!
JWW3+ |
| alan1803 | Posted: 2005/1/5 15:46 Updated: 2005/1/5 15:46 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2004/11/16 From: Posts: 38 |
Re: SCRANTON, PA: Roman Catholic Diocese To Receive First EC What is this "Anglican use" stuff? It doesn't exist in Britain, where former Anglican priests who become RCs use the Roman rite. (In fact, many of them would already have used the Roman rite while they were Anglicans, and would only need to change the name of the bishop when they "went over".)
Wouldn't an "Anglican" use involve the use of a eucharistic prayer that RCs would regard as defective? Alan Harrison |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/1/5 18:06 Updated: 2005/1/5 18:06 |
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Re: SCRANTON, PA: Roman Catholic Diocese To Receive First EC Alan,
I was curious about this myself. www.bookofdivineworship.com has information about this Mass, which apparently is an amended version of the 1979 ECUSA BCP. However, they are currently updating the site and you can't view the text. I am curious to see how they "Romanize" the Canon. Then again, the 1979 Rite II is based more on the Vatican II Novus Ordo Mass than on the Elizabethan Prayerbook anyway. Christ's peace, Frank |
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| Tractarian | Posted: 2005/1/5 19:02 Updated: 2005/1/5 19:05 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/9/29 From: Posts: 5 |
Re: Roman View of Anglican Eucharistic Canon(s) A very good introduction to the "Anglican Use" in the American Roman Catholic Church can be found on the websites already cited above. The Anglican Use is considered a local variation to the Latin Rite, which is the Rite of the Roman Church generally found in the West. It is not without precedent as there have been other "Uses," such as the Dominican and Sarum, each of which in their time varied the form of the Latin Rite Mass and Divine Office slightly. The other two Rites of the western Church, Ambrosian and Mozarabic, are today celebrated only in certain cathedrals in Milan and Toledo respectively.
On the issue of what Eucharistic canon is used within the Anglican Use, it is a traditional language translation of the pre-Vatican II Roman Eucharistic canon. It is comparable to Eucharistic Prayer A in the Novus Ordo Missae. Thus any questions as to the validity of the Anglican Eucharistic canon(s) are obviated. However, it is important to note that Rome has never, to my knowledge, contended that any Anglican Eucharistic liturgy, including those set forth in the 1549, 1552, 1662, 1928 (American) or 1979 (American) Prayer Books, is defective. Notably, the Papal judgment on the invalidity of Anglican Orders condemned the Anglican ordinal for insufficiently setting forth the sacrificial nature of Priesthood, NOT the Anglican Eucharistic prayer. Considering that Rome has always taught that the essential form of words necessary to consecrate the elements as the Body and Blood of the Lord is the Words of Institution (although canon law absolutely forbids consecrating the elements with these words alone, outside of the Mass), and the Anglican Eucharistic liturgy contains those words, it would logically follow that if the Anglican Eucharist were celebrated by a Priest validly ordained in Rome's eyes, Rome would view that Eucharist as valid. Interestingly, the Orthodox Church of Antioch, which has a "Western Rite," has approved a book of worship which includes the 1928 American Prayer Book's Eucharistic canon, with the only alteration being a more explicit "epiclesis," or invocation of the Holy Spirit. Tractarian |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2005/1/5 19:32 Updated: 2005/1/5 19:32 |
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Re: Roman View of Anglican Eucharistic Canon(s) Thanks for the clarification, Tractarian. Anglicans certainly have their quota of defective priests AND prayerbooks.
I was aware of the AOC's Western Rite...I suppose they necessarily also omit the filioque? Frank |
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| TexasBill5 | Posted: 2005/1/5 21:37 Updated: 2005/1/5 21:37 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/9/27 From: Posts: 4 |
Re: SCRANTON, PA: Roman Catholic Diocese To Receive First EC Regarding questions concerning the "Anglican Use" rite in the Roman Catholic Church:
I will paste the following information, taken from the R. C. Pastoral Provision website (http://pastoralprovision.org): ______________________________________________________ In 1980 the Holy See, in response to requests from priests and laity of the Episcopal Church who were seeking full communion with the Catholic Church, created a Pastoral Provision to provide them with special pastoral attention. The Pastoral Provision is under the jurisdiction of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith whose Delegate directs the working of the Provision. Under the Provision the ordination of married Episcopal priests was made possible1. It also authorized the establishment of personal parishes in dioceses of the United States in response to the request of former faithful of the Episcopal Church in which they may retain certain liturgical elements proper to the Anglican tradition. The special liturgy was subsequently approved by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Committee for the Liturgy of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. The Pastoral Provision is a service rendered to the bishops of the United States by which former Episcopal ministers who have been accepted as candidates for priestly ordination receive theological, spiritual, and pastoral preparation for ministry in the Catholic Church. Since 1983 over seventy men have been ordained for priestly ministry in Catholic dioceses of the United States; seven personal parishes have been established and the Book of Divine Worship has been authorized. Correspondence should be addressed to: Office of the Ecclesiastical Delegate Rev. William H. Stetson 1501 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20005 (202) 783-2062 ______________________________________________________ I have attended Anglican Use masses and I have a copy of the Book of Divine Worship. It offers a Rite One and a Rite Two, remarkably similar to the ECUSA rites. The Roman Canon is used, which places more emphasis on the sacrifice of Christ and includes a rather extensive listing of the early saints. The Rite One Roman Canon is manificiently beautiful because it is in the traditional English. When an Episcopal priest and a significant portion of his flock cross over to the Roman Church, they can seek to form an Anglican-Use Roman Catholic parish, provided the Roman Catholic diocesan bishop approves and if the Episcopal priest becomes a Roman Catholic priest. The worship in Anglican Use parishes surpasses any liturgy I've seen in either the Episcopal Church or in the rest of the Roman Rite Church. |
| TexasBill5 | Posted: 2005/1/5 21:56 Updated: 2005/1/5 21:56 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/9/27 From: Posts: 4 |
Re: SCRANTON, PA: Roman Catholic Diocese To Receive First EC In my previous post, I meant to give the link to the site where a DVD of the Holy Mass celebrated from the Book of Divine Worship can be purchased. I have a copy of this DVD, and it is worth purchasing if you would like to see an Anglican Use mass being celebrated in all of its beauty. Here is the link: http://www.atonementonline.com/GiftNook/GiftNook.php
It links to the gift shop of Our Lady of the Atonement Catholic Church in San Antonio, Texas, which was the first (I think) Anglican Use parish founded. |
| daleadams | Posted: 2005/1/6 4:03 Updated: 2005/1/6 4:03 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/2/1 From: Dixon, Calif. Posts: 975 |
Roman Catholic Anglican Use Rite So which of our two dozen or so "Continuing" Churches worships using the Anglican use mass?
Let me know, and I'll join up. Dale TexasBill5 wrote: "I have attended Anglican Use masses and I have a copy of the Book of Divine Worship. It offers a Rite One and a Rite Two, remarkably similar to the ECUSA rites. The Roman Canon is used, which places more emphasis on the sacrifice of Christ and includes a rather extensive listing of the early saints. The Rite One Roman Canon is manificiently beautiful because it is in the traditional English." |
| daleadams | Posted: 2005/1/6 4:55 Updated: 2005/1/6 4:55 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/2/1 From: Dixon, Calif. Posts: 975 |
Re: Roman Catholic Anglican Use Rite Second thoughts on my own post.
The "Converging Churches" are said to use the ECUSA 1979 Prayer Book Rite Two, which closely parallels the four Roman Catholic Eucharistic Prayers of the Novus Ordo mass. Perhaps one of these Charismatic Episcopal churches has already switched slightly to use of the Anglican Use Rite. I am a charismatic (non-practicing, we might say, since I did not find a suitable ECUSA parish when I left the Roman Catholic Church in 1992), but based on what members of charismatic episcopal churches have posted on this website, I would be distressed to be in the same room with them, much less become a member of one of their churches. Dale Adams PS: I am probably safe from the "embarassment" of having someone point me to a group meeting my specifications. Any Anglican splinter group Roman enough to use a Roman ritual is probably too anti-ECUSA to use a format approaching the 1979 Prayer Book Rite II. Any Anglican splinter group charismatic enough to prefer Rite Two to other Anglican options is probably averse to "excessive" Romanism. |
| alan1803 | Posted: 2005/1/6 10:22 Updated: 2005/1/6 10:22 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/11/16 From: Posts: 38 |
Re: Roman View of Anglican Eucharistic Canon(s) Tractarian wrote:
"The other two Rites of the western Church, Ambrosian and Mozarabic, are today celebrated only in certain cathedrals in Milan and Toledo respectively" I believe that the Mozarabic Rite is celebrated only in the Mozarabic Chapel of Toledo Cathedral. The Ambrosian Rite, however, is celebrated in all churches and public oratories of the Archdiocese of Milan (except, I think, for Monza). Aficionados apparently prefer the celebration at Sant'Ambrogio to that in the Cathedral. Interesting to think that the largest Roman Catholic diocese in the world doesn't use the Roman Rite! Alan Harrison |
| alan1803 | Posted: 2005/1/6 10:31 Updated: 2005/1/6 10:31 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2004/11/16 From: Posts: 38 |
Re: SCRANTON, PA: Roman Catholic Diocese To Receive First EC Thanks to Texas Bill for the information.
There were some similar examples in England just after the purported ordination of women, in which former Anglican priests and those members of their congregations who went with them continued for a time to worship together as RCs in their former Anglican buildings (with the consent of their former ordinary and the RC bishop). There was even one case in the East End in which the idea was mooted of selling the church to the RCs. However, these experiments stopped pretty quickly and the new RCs were swiftly absorbed into the normal worshipping life of the RC Church. In no case was there any suggestion of an "Anglican use", probably because in England "the high tends to be higher" when compared with ECUSA, and the new RCs would often have come from C of E parishes which were using the Roman Rite. Alan Harrison |
| TexasBill5 | Posted: 2005/1/6 13:34 Updated: 2005/1/6 13:34 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/9/27 From: Posts: 4 |
Re: Roman Catholic Anglican Use Rite In response to daleadams:
Insofar as I know, none of the "Continuing" Churches uses the Anglican Use mass. I guess I did not make it clear, but the fact is that the Anglican Use mass is strictly a Roman Catholic mass, authorized by the Vatican, and created for Anglican converts to the Roman Church who want to continue using an "Anglican style" of worship. In other words, it is the Roman mass adapted in some ways to give it a distinctive "Anglican flavor." It is simply a pastoral response on the part of the Roman Church to Anglicans. Unfortuntately, there are only a half dozen or so Roman Catholic parishes in the U.S. right now that have Anglican Use liturgies, but the hope is that they will continue to grow as more Anglicans "cross the Tiber." |
| vscoles | Posted: 2005/1/6 15:40 Updated: 2005/1/6 15:40 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2005/1/6 From: Ecclesia Scotiana Posts: 35 |
Re: Roman Catholic Anglican Use Rite It will be fascinating to see what happens in the UK - Anglicans using "Cranmer" approved by the Holy See. What a wonderful irony!
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| frnesmith | Posted: 2005/1/22 11:38 Updated: 2005/1/22 11:38 |
Just popping in Joined: 2004/10/18 From: Monticello, AR Posts: 7 |
Re: SCRANTON, PA: Roman Catholic Diocese To Receive First EC I cannot help but ponder if one accepts the Roman dogmas such as the infallibility of the Pope and the Immaculate Conception of Mary (see below) both of which are unknown to Scripture, the Fathers of the Early Church, and rejected by both Orthodox and Anglican how is that different from accepting the revisionist "dogmas" which are also unknown to Scripture, to the Fathers of the Early Church, and rejected by Orthodox and Anglican?
Rt. Rev. Michael G. Nesmith, D.Div All Saints Old Catholic Church The dogma of infallibility states, "That the Pope has a legal binding primacy of jurisdiction over every single national church and every individual Christian". "The pope possesses the gift of Infallibility and his own solemn magisterial decisions. These solemn (ex cathedra) decisions are Infallible on the basis or special support from all the Holy Spirit and are immutable (irreformable), intrinsically, not by virtue of the ascent of the Church." The dogma of the Immaculate Conception is sometimes confused with the Virgin Birth from which it must be carefully distinguished. The dogma of the Virgin Birth is the belief that our Lord was born of a Virgin, which is taught in the Gospels, asserted in the Creeds, and accepted by all orthodox Christians. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception is the belief that our Lord’s Mother was without sin, original or actual, from the first moment of her existence. |
| alexis | Posted: 2005/4/10 21:00 Updated: 2005/4/10 21:00 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/4/10 From: Posts: 5 |
Re: ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUS I don't believe "old guard" priests or gay priests (celibate or not) would make life difficult for a married ex-Anglican priest. After all, the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church has married priests and they are in full communion with Rome. Every Roman priest knows this and many have surely come into contact with these priests.
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| alexis | Posted: 2005/4/10 21:12 Updated: 2005/4/10 21:12 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/4/10 From: Posts: 5 |
Re: ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUS Effeminate homosexuals may have been removed from Roman Catholic seminaries (though I am not so sure in light of the vocations crisis) however most homosexuals are not effeminate and not always "detectable". Anyway, why should they be expelled from seminaries if they promise to maintain celibacy? Catholic theology does not condemn homosexuals, just the homosexual act. If all homosexuals are thrown out of seminaries, all heterosexuals would have to be thrown out as they too are capable of fornication or adultery.
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| alexis | Posted: 2005/4/10 21:21 Updated: 2005/4/10 21:21 |
Just popping in Joined: 2005/4/10 From: Posts: 5 |
Re: SCRANTON, PA: Roman Catholic Diocese To Receive First EC Anglican churches in England are generally higher than ECUSA high church parishes? Are you sure? You have me confused - if the English parishes you spoke of were using a Roman liturgy prior to going over to Rome, it must have been an older liturgy than is currently used by Rome - otherwise they would hardly have been high church. The danger of the Anglican Use Rite, it seems to me, is that Rome will eventually demand conformity - Anglican parishes that make the switchover have no guarantees that they will be able to keep, long term, a traditional liturgy.
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