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Exclusives : ECUSA is the Spoiled Child of the Anglican Communion
Posted by David Virtue on 2004/11/22 20:42:00 (4271 reads)

ECUSA IS THE SPOILED CHILD IN ANGLICAN COMMUNION.
ORTHODOX LEADER URGES EVANGELICALS TO ROCK THE BOAT

By David W. Virtue

CHERRY HILL, NJ (11/21/2004)--A leader in the orthodox wing of the Episcopal Church says evangelical Episcopalians must stand together, build new networks and friendships and be prepared for whatever the worst revisionist bishops do and fight back.

Speaking at St. Bartholomew's Episcopal Church, Cherry Hill, on Sunday, Canon Martyn Minns, rector of the 2,500-strong Truro Church in Fairfax, Virginia said that unless ECUSA repents some sort of North American provincial realignment was "inevitable." He also pointed out that the Network (NACDP) was recognized by the Church of Nigeria and the other African provinces as their partner in the USA during the recent conference in Lagos.

Minns, who was in Lagos for the All Africa bishops meeting, said that most of those present think that ECUSA is the spoiled child in the Anglican Communion and that the rest of the communion will not follow.

Minns reported that his own parish had suffered from the actions of last summer's general convention. "We have lost 50 families. Most of them said they could not be part of a church that was rejecting the truth of the Scriptures on sexuality issues. Many of them said that they could not raise their children in such a church."

He said that following General Convention, and the Robinson confirmation, 70 percent of his congregation had insisted that their money not go forward to the Diocese of Virginia, and the National General Church. They wrote hundreds of letters to the Bishop Lee and said that this was a time of crisis.

Minns said doing nothing was not an option. "You can come together and you can pray. Be the church and begin to move forward. Get organized. Establish mission partnerships. Get involved in ministry. Show how God can transform lives. You have lots of power; the power of the Spirit, the power of the feet and the power of the purse. This is a good time to stand up and fight back."

While acknowledging the strong points in the Windsor Report such as the importance of the Communion and the "supreme authority of Scripture", Minns was nonetheless critical of the Report because it appeared to put most of the blame on the wrong people, those who cross diocesan boundaries, for the problems in the communion, when in fact it was those who chose to defy the Lambeth resolution on Human Sexuality overwhelmingly passed at Lambeth 1998.

"Sadly, while it is a valiant effort, the Windsor report appears to be an
inadequate prescription for the disease of false doctrine, found in the
Episcopal Church."

"If the Episcopal Church does not repent and change its ways it will walk alone," he told his audience of clergy and laity most of whom were drawn from mid and south New Jersey.

"ECUSA will have chosen to be out of the Anglican Communion."

Minns pointed to Nigeria as an amazing story of Anglican growth. "Nigeria is a relatively small country compared with the USA, but it has 17 million Anglicans. The Church is on fire for the Lord. They are not planting churches, they are planting cathedrals. Archbishops Akinola has set a goal to double their province in three years."

"Nigeria is not an ignorant church. There are more earned doctorates in
their House of Bishops than in the Episcopal Church House of Bishops. The Dean of the Cathedral in West Lagos is a former surgeon, he said. "We are dealing with world class people."

Minns said that Archbishop Akinola had described an incident that took place when the Primates met in Lambeth last October. There was a time in the meeting when there seemed to be no way forward. Some of the primates were in tears, Akinola went up to Griswold and said to him, "you have seen what your actions have done, please stand back, back off before it is too late.

Griswold said 'no I can't" Akinola said it was a tragic moment for the Communion.

Minns said one of the issues that the report fails to acknowledge was the growing power of the Global South. The West sees that power threatened. He also questioned the whole notion of geographic borders. Parish boundaries no longer define our local congregations ­ it is time to admit that we have to move away from limiting mission by geography. We are the temples of the Holy Spirit, the church is a people, it is not a place."

Minns also pointed out that while Presiding Bishop Griswold had condemned President George Bush for what he considered to be unilateralism in foreign policy, it appeared to the rest of the Communion that he was guilty of doing exactly the same thing with his sexuality policies.

However, Minns was optimistic about the eventual outcome of all of this. He said that he was confident that God was at work and would never abandon His Church. "While some of the familiar structures will disappear he is confident that a stronger more vibrant church will be the result. It will be a church that will demonstrate the transforming power of the Gospel for all people. It will also be one that will take seriously the need to listen to the voices of those in the Global South who have a great deal to teach us."

He finished by saying that "The laity is the greatest resource in the church. It bugs me why the laity sits quietly by; be encouraged to rise up.

The church was never meant to be dominated by clergy or bishops. Many lay folks are reluctant to take initiative, Please, I beg of you, stand up and rock the boat."

END

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Poster Thread
MarkP
Posted: 2004/11/22 23:05  Updated: 2004/11/22 23:05
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/11/11
From: Diocese of El Camino Real
Posts: 319
 Re: ECUSA IS THE SPOILED CHILD IN ANGLICAN COMMUNION
He also questioned the whole notion of geographic borders. Parish boundaries no longer define our local congregations ­ it is time to admit that we have to move away from limiting mission by geography. We are the temples of the Holy Spirit, the church is a people, it is not a place."
____________________________________________________

OK, there's is a good point here, in my opinion. In my own case, I belong to a parish that is different from the parish in which I live. So I drive 15 minutes to go to church on Sunday even though the closest Episcopal church is only a 5 minute drive.

If ECUSA determines to walk outside the Anglican Communion, I have even considered moving my membership to a church in Bishop John Schofield's diocese of San Joaquin, which is a 1 1/2 hour drive away--but attending services in a Presbyterian or Methodist or RC church here. This seems like a severe solution, but these are difficult times.

It seems odd to have a geographic border for a bishop when the laity appear to be allow to transfer their membership between churches.

Can someone with a greater knowledge (than me) of ECUSA polity share some insight on the geographical boudaries for laity and bishops?
morrismpls
Posted: 2004/11/23 2:08  Updated: 2004/11/23 2:08
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/1/4
From:
Posts: 496
 Re: ECUSA IS THE SPOILED CHILD IN ANGLICAN COMMUNION
MarkP,

For laity, you have much more freedom than clergy. Basically to become a member of any parish, sign a pledge card and start taking Holy Communion there at least three times a year, once at Easter. If you're a member of an ECUSA parish already, request a transfer of records from your old parish to your new. Your new parish should be able to handle all that for you. Just ask them to do it.

Clergy have to be licensed to function in a specific diocese where their butts are owned by the diocesan bishop until they tranfer to another diocese and belong to that bishop. The tranfer is not necessarily automatic. That's how a heretical bishop can quietly weed out orthodox clergy and only license fellow travelers in Satan's fifth column. That's why bishoprics are most important in ECUSA's current polity.
sherman
Posted: 2004/11/23 2:29  Updated: 2004/11/23 2:29
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/1/12
From: Kneeland CA
Posts: 75
 Re: ECUSA IS THE SPOILED CHILD IN ANGLICAN COMMUNION
Mark,

Do it!
1 ½ hrs is worth it. The parish I went to is within walking distance; my new one is 5 hrs. one way travel. It is worth it to find a faithful parish. My wife and I are much more joyous, now.
At 5 hrs. travel time, most Sundays we usually attend one of the many diverse local churches. As a friend once told me, “The body of Christ is just beautiful in all of its manifestations.
We either do that or I get to watch a lot more pro football.

The ECUSA is complaining about bishops crossing boundaries. Forget the bishop. I once hoped that another diocese would send a missionary priest... Now, I just become ecstatic about an occasional conversation with a faithful layman.

Steve
essodalori
Posted: 2004/11/23 3:11  Updated: 2004/11/23 3:11
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/9/15
From:
Posts: 4904
 Re: ECUSA IS THE SPOILED CHILD IN ANGLICAN COMMUNION
"Minns reported that his own parish had suffered from the actions of last summer's general convention. "We have lost 50 families. Most of them said they could not be part of a church that was rejecting the truth of the Scriptures on sexuality issues. Many of them said that they could not raise their children in such a church.""

---

Loving parents want their children to know God's loving morality.

Endorsing homosexual acts to children is a form of child abuse.

Essodalori
Voyager
Posted: 2004/11/23 9:00  Updated: 2004/11/23 9:00
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/7/30
From: 90 ± 10 Astronomical Units (AU).
Posts: 1594
 Re: ECUSA IS THE SPOILED CHILD IN ANGLICAN COMMUNION
You Americans have parishes ? How New England. The original structure in England was Wapentakes as a basic unit of Anglo-Saxon administration; then I suppose the Normans divided up the country and built their monasteries under the patronage of some Norman Baron; and with the dissolution came the churches financed by local squires and landowners.

The local squire had a big influence in the choice of vicar and how much his "living" was worth; and I suppose the farmers had to tithe from their crops - I think it was 1937 that this stopped.

Then the industrial cities started around 1790 and those landowners who grew richer through land sales built churches, and churches founded things like Cricket Clubs to keep the proletariat out of mischief.......and the C19th saw a huge explosion of Victorian church building.

The Parish was powerful because of local patronage.....but just as Mom & pop stores were eradicated by Corporations so the Church became corporate and started to run the parish as a branch office.

Each local Baron (Bishop) decided his congregation was like a Teamsters-Local - it defined his income and status and he had to harvest his income.

So the Church is more akin to the old Mass. Banking system where they could not operate across county lines but created holding companies like BayBanks Boston to consolidate the corporation but each local branch had its own President of an "independent" bank.........Texas had the same weird system I recall.

It is basically Teamster politics on the part of Bishops...........
alan1803
Posted: 2004/11/23 9:54  Updated: 2004/11/23 9:54
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2004/11/16
From:
Posts: 38
 Travelling to church
I'm a midlander in southern exile. Born in Walsall, where I lived most of my life, I currently work in Uxbridge, Middlesex, and live in West Drayton. Down here, I drive over to Hayes, where I attend the parish church (S. Mary's), under the care of the Bishop of Fulham, the nearest "sound" Anglo-Catholic fane. When I go up to see my folks, once again I drive over to Wolverhampton, where I go to Mass at S. Stephen's, under the care of the Bishop of Ebbsfleet.

Our situation is considerably less dire than that facing people of similar churchmanship on your side of the pond. However, it is apparent that Anglican bishops are the most territorial of all mammalian species and the "third province" may prove to be the "crunch".

Alan Harrison
Anonymous
Posted: 2004/11/23 15:32  Updated: 2004/11/23 15:32
 Re: ECUSA IS THE SPOILED CHILD IN ANGLICAN COMMUNION
In my Diocese the Episcotariat favors abolishing Parish boundaries because they are allegedly the remnant of racial segregation when they were drawn to exclude some and invidiously empower others. Fine.

But these are the same people who treat the Diocesan boundary as sacrosanct. Go figure.

FWIW as a matter of spiritual discipline you should belong to faith community where you are planted: Your neighborhood parish. But the same discipline may lead you elsewhere when the ministry of that parish does not meet your needs.

Hopefully, the Primates might agree on some orderly process whereby parishes might opt out of geographical Diocese and affiliate with their "spiritual" Diocese be that in Pittsburgh, Paraguay or Pretoria.... This needs to be done is such a way so as not to destroy our heirarchical order, with parishes switching back and forth with changes of Rectors, Bishops, Wardens, sunspots and GC Resolutions gone wrong. But unless this process is allowed for, many in the pews will simply "opt out" of their ECUSA parish now affiilated with a Diocese that is now out of communion with the rest of the Anglican world.
daleadams
Posted: 2004/11/24 4:10  Updated: 2004/11/24 4:10
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/2/1
From: Dixon, Calif.
Posts: 975
 Re: ECUSA IS THE SPOILED CHILD IN ANGLICAN COMMUNION
Cranmer wrote:
"This needs to be done is such a way so as not to destroy our hierarchical order, with parishes switching back and forth with changes of Rectors, Bishops, Wardens, sunspots and GC Resolutions gone wrong."
Ah, but that's *exactly* what I proposed in my response to--was it Mullen?--about three weeks ago. Allow each parish to decide whether to be affiliated with its territorial bishop or to a (preferably) contiguous diocese.
Dale Adams
allyHM
Posted: 2004/11/28 17:13  Updated: 2004/11/28 17:13
Just popping in
Joined: 2004/11/27
From: Florida
Posts: 3
 Re: ECUSA IS THE SPOILED CHILD IN ANGLICAN COMMUNION
Well, at least most of us posting here are staying with the church and just finding orthodox parishes. I'm blessed that our clergy, parish and bishop are orthodox. But why aren't we, the lay persons, doing more to have our voices heard? This is great to come here and opine about the state of the church, but all the discussion in the world won't change things. WE NEED TO STAND UP, SPEAK OUT AND MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD!!

We need to:

(1) Educate other Episcopalians about the real issues, not just the surface issues that church leaders and the media would have us focus on.

(2) Reach out to those Episcopalians who have left the church over these issues and help them find a way to join with us to effect change.

(3) Organize a grassroots effort so that we can have a say in these issues. After all, the outcome will affect all of our lives.

(4) Write lots and lots of letters to ALL bishops to let them know exactly what we think and feel. (For a listing of current email addresses for all active and "retired" bishops, send me an email - you can find it in my profile - and I'll be happy to send it to you - ironically, I ran across the list by accident at what turned out to be a Louie Crew page! ).

Apathy and inaction imply tacit approval.

GET OUT OF THE PEW AND GET INVOLVED!!!

In Christ's love,
Allison
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