PENNSYLVANIA PARISH PRIESTS PRACTICE PAGAN EUCHARISTIC CEREMONY
By David W. Virtue
MALVERN, PA (10/29/2004)--A husband and wife clergy couple in the Diocese of Pennsylvania practice pagan Wiccan worship with the woman priest affirming a rite called "A Women’s Eucharist" - A Celebration of the Divine Feminine, that can be found on the Episcopal Church's official website.
The wiccan-worshipping woman priest is Glyn Lorraine Ruppe Melnyk rector at St. Francis Episcopal Church on Sugartown Road who goes by the Wiccan names "Raven" and "Glispa" and her husband Bill Melnyk, rector of St. James in Downingtown, PA goes by the Wiccan names "Bran" and "OakWyse". A source told Virtuosity that he does not wear a cross but a shell around his neck.
Melnyk insists that the shell he wears is the ancient Christian symbol of Baptism, and is quite well-known as the Symbol of St. James, for whom our parish is named."
However, on the Druid board on February 24, 2004, Melnyk wrote about his shell:
"I, personally, do not wear a cross unless it is a solar cross. Often I wear a silver shell, which most Christians I meet think is a symbol of Baptism, but which, for me, also represents Athena!"
Melnyk: "I'm 57, live in southeastern Pennsylvania, and have been a member of OBOD since 1998. My spouse and I are both Druid graduates of the training course. We are also both priests in the Episcopal (Anglican) Church. Between us, we lead two groves (some call them "congregations") of Christians learning about Druidry numbering about 1200. My creed? 'There is only one river.'
The pagan eucharistic rite reads in part: "The chalice of sweet red wine is raised and a woman says, "Blessed are you, Mother God, for you have given us the fruit of the earth. Red as blood, warm as life itself, sweet and intoxicating as love. We thank you for wine. We bless you for the power of this drink to remind us of our own power. We praise you for the strength and beauty of our bodies, and for the menstrual blood of womanhood. We embrace the mystery of life which you have entrusted to us, and we pray for the day when human blood is no longer shed and when woman’s blood is honored as holy and in your image."
The cup is passed hand to hand and all drink from it. Placing both hands on the fabric covering the table, one of the women says,
"Blessed are you, Mother God, for the fertility of this world. We thank you for the sight and scent of flowers, for the way their shape evokes in us the unfolding of our own sexuality, and for their power to remind us of the glory and the impermanence of physical beauty. May our days of blossoming and of fading be days spent in your presence."
"Thank you, Mother, for the abundance of life. Thank you for the rich, full, pleasing, and life giving milk of our bodies. Thank you for the children who drink from our breasts for they bring sweetness to our lives. We drink this cup as your daughters, fed from your own bosom. May we be proud of our nurturing and sustaining selves. May we honor our breasts as symbols of your abundance. Thank you for the milk and honey of your presence with us."
The cup is passed and shared by all.
The parish itself is barely five miles from the evangelical/charismatic Church of the Good Samaritan, in Paoli, the largest parish in the diocese, and from which some of the members broke away several years ago to form this revisionist parish. The church is sustained by a few well-heeled members from the hunt run horse set. The church does not use the Prayer Book, a source told Virtuosity.
Pennsylvania Bishop Charles E. Bennison said on hearing the news that he will not engage in a "witch hunt", meaning he is reluctant to declare that Pagan Wicca Druid ceremonies mean that those practicing these witchcraft-like ceremonies have abandoned the Communion of the Church. Yet, it is the same Charles Bennison who proclaimed that Father David Moyer had abandoned the Communion of the Church by being faithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
The Rev. Bill Melnyk wrote to Virtuosity following the publication of this article to say that neither St. Francis nor St. James Church use the Women's Eucharist from the EWM website. "At St. Francis the schedule is Rite 1 at the early service and Rite 2 at the later service. At St. James we use Rite 1 (Prayer1, with Prayer of Humble Access) at 7:45, and Rite 2 at 11:00. At our 9:00 am children-oriented family service we had been using an Evangelical Eucharist from the Iona Community -- a Christian Eucharist. Because of this current flap, however, we have changed that to the Prayer Book Rite 2 service. Nothing other than orthodox Christian rites have ever been used at either church."
Two summers ago the two "pagan" rectors lead an inter-faith pilgrimage to Stonehenge in England and conducted a service that included wiccans.
Recently however the Rev. Glyn Melnyk started using the pagan eucharist the language of which is lifted almost completely (without attribution) from a rite from Tuatha de Brighid, "a Clan of modern Druids … who believe in the interconnectedness of all faiths."
On hearing the news an orthodox priest said, "This is worse than the sin of sodomy, it is taking the Episcopal Church to a new level, that of paganism."
The Rev. Greg Brewer, rector of Church of the Good Samaritan in Paoli said, "My concern is for the parishioners at St. Francis, some of whom I know. They would be shocked and horrified to know that their rector was engaged in Druid and Wiccan practices."
The Office of Women's Ministries at the national church headquarters in New York City had the pagan liturgy posted at the church's official website, but it was later deep-sixed from the "Women's Eucharist" when a hue and cry went up from thousands of Episcopalians on the Internet.
However the liturgy is cached by Google and can be accessed at the following VirtueOnline Web Link.
The story was first blogged at Christianity Today's website with a headline that screamed "Episcopal Church Officially Promotes Idol Worship," written by Ted Olsen. The story rocked around the world causing the Rev. Margaret Rose, Director of the office of Women's Ministries at the national church in New York to immediately withdraw the page on the skimpy grounds that the material was copyright protected. But another priest responded saying, "it cannot be a copyright issue.
The author of the liturgy in question is the one who posted it on the ECUSA website." At the very end of the "Women's Eucharist" page had the name and address of Glyn Lorraine Ruppe Melnyk, rector of St. Francis in the Fields Episcopal Church in Malvern, Pennsylvania. One might have expected the notation at the end to indicate that she submitted it to the site as well.
But the office's credibility is seriously undermined by its claim that it didn't promote the liturgy for actual use. A line from an earlier press release reads: "The Office of Women's Ministries is working towards creating a resource to be used by women, men, parishes, dioceses, small groups, within the context of a Sunday morning service, or any other appropriate setting where the honoring of a woman's life passages and experiences beckons a liturgical response. … Although traditional liturgy acknowledges little of these aspects of women's lives, many women have taken up the task of creating and writing such liturgies for themselves or others. The Women's Liturgy Project has begun collecting worship resources written by women for women in order to create a resource that is accessible to all."
This was followed by a link to the page with the "Women's Eucharist" listed as the second of nine resources. The "Women's Worship Resources" (not "Dialogue Resources") page of the Office of Women's Ministries has toned down its description of the rites, but still urges readers to "use them for … gathering communities of worship."
Rose said the liturgies listed at the website were intended to spark dialogue, study, conversation and ponderings around women and our liturgical tradition.
"The current liturgy project – A Call for Resources: The Women's Liturgy Project – and the Women's Worship Resources section on our website is a grassroots, organic, interactive process is an offering to open the awareness of the many voices and needs that exist among people in the church as we all strive to find expressions of our life, love and faith in God."
Outraged, the Rev. Canon David H. Roseberry, rector of Christ Church, Plano, the most attended parish in the Episcopal Church was shocked and horrified, wrote to both Rose and the church's Presiding Bishop.
In his letter to Griswold he said: "I am alerting you to the unfortunate fact that the web site of the Episcopal Church has been promoting a liturgy and a worship that is patently non-Christian. This afternoon, there was a liturgy celebrating the Divine Feminine posted on the web site of the Episcopal Church. It was outrageous and pagan. I understand that it has been removed as of about 4:30 today. With all due respect, I ask that you clarify the role that the Episcopal Church Office has in promoting non-Christian and pagan practices. I have been in touch with The Rev. Margaret Rose, the director of the Office of Women's Ministries, and she was sorry that the web page had been posted without attribution. (She said it was lifted from a Druid web site.)"
In a phone conversation with the director, Roseberry said she did not know that it was "lifted" from a pagan/Druid clan nor did she did mean to convey that the Eucharist was an official instrument or liturgy of the Episcopal Church.
Roseberry said Rose was somewhat apologetic, but said the "liturgy" was posted to inspire and promote dialogue. She said that the role of the Office of Women¹s Ministry was to look for ways of spreading the love of Jesus. She said, "It is my personal theology that the clarity of who we are as Episcopalians is often enhanced by our engagement with things that are "Other" and this is clearly "Other".
Roseberry blasted her saying that the liturgy was non-Christian, non-biblical and did not represent her hopes for spreading the love of Jesus. "I told her it was right out of The Da Vinci Code. (She hadn't read the book.) I told her that anything that promotes the earth as Mother is Pagan and non-Christian and non-biblical. She also mentioned that the Windsor report encouraged this kind of dialogue and conversation, recognizing that we live in a pluralistic society."
Roseberry asked her if she was authorized to open up a dialogue with a pagan religion as a function of the ecumenical office of the Episcopal Church. She said that there were many staff people (herself among them) that represent the Episcopal Church in all kinds of dialogues with the National Council of Churches.
"I asked her if her office would disavow the liturgy and disassociate themselves from it. She felt that the liturgy itself was a helpful tool in helping us to understand people of other faiths. She might, she said, put up a Muslim liturgy to engender the kind of debate and discussion that we are having about the Druid liturgy."
That "other faiths" comment is important, because a key question—if not the key question—is how the Episcopal Church leadership (Rose included) views this liturgy and the church's relationship to it. Is it of a different faith? By promoting it, has the Episcopal Church itself become a non-Christian faith? Rose doesn't seem clear about whether this liturgy is ecumenical (of the church) or of "another faith." Perhaps she's confused because the ceremony directly references the Old Testament. But is offering sacrifices to ancient Canaanite idols antithetical to Christianity or not?
Scripture seems awfully clear on this point. "What pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God," Paul told the church at Corinth. "I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?"
Wrote another priest, "Imagine for one moment that you're a leader in the Episcopal Church USA. You know that within the next few days, a global commission is going to release a report on how the global Anglican Communion should respond to your church, and is likely to be critical of the ordination of an actively homosexual man as bishop. You know, and have said yourself, that the debate isn't just about sexuality: It's about how one views the Bible. And you know that all eyes will be on your denomination over the next few weeks. What do you do? Well, what the real leaders of the Episcopal Church did was to take an action that makes ordaining a homosexual man as a bishop almost a non-issue. They started promoting the worship of pagan deities!"
"Many scholars believe they were offerings to the goddess Asherah, the female counterpart to Baal, but in this context it may be more directly tied to Ishtar/Ashtoreth/Astarte, the 'Queen of Heaven'."
"Our ancient sisters called you Queen of Heaven," says the Episcopal liturgy. That's a reference to Jeremiah. And not a happy one. In Jeremiah 7, God complains, "The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger." The liturgy's reference to defiant women worshipping the Queen of Heaven with cakes comes directly from Jeremiah 44."
Wrote Ted Olsen, "and now Episcopal Church leaders want you to do the same. Defy God. Worship pagan deities. There is no other possible reading of this "Eucharistic" text."
The website also offered nine offerings, the second of which is the "Women's Eucharist." Another troubling entry is the Liturgy for Divorce, which includes a rite of divorce.
"This is not a joke, nor an overstatement. In all truth and seriousness, leaders of the Episcopal Church USA are promoting pagan rites to pagan deities. And not just any new pagan deities: The Episcopal Church USA, though its Office of Women's Ministries, is actually promoting the worship of idols specifically condemned in Scripture," wrote Olsen.
Both Episcopal priests belong to The Order of Bards, Ovates, and Druids.
The Rev. Bill Melnyk, a Druid priest who is also an Episcopal priest, serving in the Diocese of Pennsylvania included information at his website called "A Little Information Written by the Male Druid/Episcopal priest."
The Episcopal priest who goes by the name OakWyse when he's a "Druid" or "Wiccan" priest, was so concerned that news about his activities had leaked out that he sent a frantic message appeared on the Druidry.org message board saying; "My Dear Friends—Raven, Glyn Lorraine Ruppe Melnyk, the Episcopal rector and author of the "Women's Eucharist" and I have come under vicious attack from Anglican fundamentalists re our connection to druidry. Hour by hour the attacks are spreading on fundamentalist BLOGs across the country. For our protection, we must end all internet connection as soon as possible. I ask Kernos to leave this one notice up for a day or two, but then to do a universal delete of all references to Druis. Please delete my membership. I cannot stress how serious this is. If you respond, please do not use my name in your response. I will not be posting again." It is signed Druis.
Virtuosity also learned that Melnyk had been funding pagan Druid projects out of his Discretionary account which might be illegal.
On a posting to a Druid website posted on Mon Aug 23, 2004 Melnyk wrote regarding White Spring, Glastonbury. "Plans are nearing completion for the purchase of the White Spring properties on the side of Glastonbury Tor, across Wellhouse Lane from the Chalice Well Gardens. Please go to http://www.avalonwhitespring.org/ for the initial information. I am now soliciting funds to aid in the purchase and development of the White Spring. A Trust will be available soon. Until then, donations can be sent to me and made payable to "Saint James Church" earmarked for "Rector's Discretionary Fund-White Spring". These donations are tax deductible. We are also looking for folks who would be willing to make larger, interest free loans to aid in the purchase. We are not home yet, but we are now very close to making this a reality!"
Peace, Druis
Late last night the link was taken off the worldwide web clearly working hard to erase his tracks.
This is the organization that trained them according to his own words and it can be found here: http://druidry.org/ The OBOD Message Board Lughnasadh 2004 Eisteddfod Winners. The Druid Craft Tarot by Philip & Stephanie Carr-Gomm and Will Worthington.
The following is a piece of another pagan ceremony written by Mr. Melnyk, AKA (OakWyse) for the Celtic fertility festival of Beltaine.
"Participants draw a warm bath prepared with Lavender bath salts, or scented with a sachet filled with Vervain,, Mint, Basil, Thyme, Fennel, Lavender, Rosemary, Hyssop, and Valerian. The bath should be decorated with white candles, and a musky incense used. Wash each other in the bath, taking time to become relaxed and centered. Then dry each other with soft towels and anoint each other with Lavender or Musk oil on the souls of the feet, behind the knees, just above the pubic area (be careful with essential oils here!), on the breasts, under the chin, and on the forehead. Dress in plain or ceremonial robes, or simple peasant garb that is easily removed. Each take a burning white taper from the bath for the procession to the Nemeton. (If there are more people than will fit in the bath, take turns stepping in and being washed ceremonially.)
"As our ancestors once did, so we do today, and so our children will do in the future. We are here to pay homage to the divine as manifest in Boinn, Lady of Fertility, and to Bel, Lord of the Sun; to the Gods, to the Ancestors, and to the Earth Spirits; to the rising light of the year. Now is the time of fertility, when the flowering plants put forth their blossoms, and Mother Earth is fertile once again. Life is now awake, and the bees and butterflies travel from flower to flower. In the meadow come together the sire and the dam. This is the Feast of Beltaine, the Fires of Bell. As the Sun now burns brightly bringing warmth to Mother Earth, so warmth stirs in the loins, and the fires of joining burn again in the sexes. In the embrace of lovers new life is created. So let us join together as one to make our offerings in joy and reverence.
Boinn, Cow-Mother and Goddess of the Moon, River of Life, grant us this boon: That power of joining may flow in us soon!
AND THEN THIS:
River Goddess, naked be!
He removes her clothing, and caresses her body.
They take some of the small wildflowers strewn about, and weave them into each other’s hair, on the head and in the pubic area.
And they eventually end up doing it: The couple join in love-making on the mattress, taking whatever time is needed.
(If there are more than one couple, appropriate actions agreed upon as a group beforehand now take place.)
The Very Rev. G. Richard Lobs III, Dean of The Cathedral Church of Saint Luke in Orland told Virtuosity, "This is an immensely important story. The primary significance is not that there are two heretical priests, deep into the occult, in the Diocese of Pennsylvania. That is important but secondary. The significance lies in the fact that a culture has been created by the top leadership, within the National Episcopal Church, where the writing of pagan priests is welcome at the Women's Desk for "exploration." It is important to note that this place was not arrived at overnight. Where we are at present is the result of thirty-five years of downward sliding. There really is a slippery slope. This is not simply about two priests. It is about a once great denomination where it is permissible to offend the Almighty and in the most provocative ways to date."
Peter Akinola, chairman of the Council of Anglican Provinces of Africa, has been saying that the Episcopal Church USA is "embroiled in a new religion which we cannot associate ourselves with."
Responding to the charges Pennsylvania Bishop Charles E. Bennison said, "the accusations against two local priests that they are practicing druids and in violation of their ordination vows are extremely serious and merit further inquiries to establish the Facts. At the same time, it’s imperative to ensure that the Revs. Glyn Ruppe-Melnyk and William Melnyk are treated fairly and not victims of a “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” mentality, he said. “I am extremely concerned by the charges made against the Melnyks, yet I am also concerned about the reputations and pastoral needs of two priests who have contributed very positively to their parishes and this diocese for four years,” Bennison said. “I will not allow this situation to turn into a witch-hunt of any sort.” Bennison indicated that he is looking forward to communication with the lay leaders of St.- Francis-in-the-Fields, Sugartown, where Rev. Ruppe-Melnyk is rector and St. James’, Downingtown, where her husband serves. The Bishop said he thought it crucial during this process to hear the voices of those now served by the Melnyks.
“The liturgy at the center of this unfortunate controversy was written years ago for study purposes for a small support group of women in a diocese where the priests previously served. Yet to be determined is the extent to which it represents the priests’ present views,” Bennison said. “The Melnyks assure me that it has never been used in liturgy or in their prayer life.”
NOTE: If you are not receiving this from VIRTUOSITY, the Anglican Communion's largest biblically orthodox Episcopal/Anglican Online News Service, then you may subscribe FREE by going to: www.virtuosityonline.org. Virtuosity's website has been accessed by more than one million readers in 45 countries on six continents. This story is copyrighted but may be freely forwarded electronically with reference to VIRTUOSITY and the author. No changes are permitted in the text.
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| Poster | Thread |
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| Anonymous | Posted: 2004/10/29 23:49 Updated: 2004/10/29 23:49 |
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Girls just want to have fun!
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| Sasha | Posted: 2004/10/30 0:18 Updated: 2004/10/30 0:25 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/6/9 From: Posts: 214 |
What more can one do here than quote the Bible as follows:
"And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in His heart, "I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I smite any more every thing living, as I have done..."[Genesis 9: 21] "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"[Jeremiah 17: 9] "Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. "For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me."[Psalm 51: 2,3] "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."[Psalm 51: 5] "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."[Romans 3: 23] From these verses and others in the Bible, there is but one conclusion for us humans to recognise and accept: without Christ, ALL Mankind is intrinsically, utterly and unalterably EVIL What those pagans in E"C"USA are doing is merely showing who they really are in addition to manifesting Our Lord's Judgement as pronounced in Romans 1 upon them (where those wretches are given over to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts). |
| m_clemons | Posted: 2004/10/30 0:57 Updated: 2004/10/30 0:57 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/18 From: Diocese of Fort Worth Posts: 3 |
Here is a link to another one of Fr.OakWyse's Episcopagan Liturgies: http://www.tuathadebrighid.org/wiccan.htm
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| Pasha | Posted: 2004/10/30 11:34 Updated: 2004/10/30 11:34 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/21 From: Posts: 46 |
Does the word "excommunicate" mean anything? Bring it on already. I am tired of these charletans masqeruading as Christians.
And HughMc, do you really think your response is appropriate? This is serious sin here, and not something to be joking about. Consider your thoughts. |
| bobseitz | Posted: 2004/10/30 12:35 Updated: 2004/10/30 12:35 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/29 From: Tampa, Florida Posts: 4 |
While Raven and OakWyse spice up their sex lives with their randy rituals, the Episcopal Church descends ever deeper into the depths of depravity.
It is poetic justice that this revelation should pop up at Halloween in Bennison's diocese. Lookout, Chuck, the goblins will get ye! |
| m_clemons | Posted: 2004/10/30 16:56 Updated: 2004/10/30 16:56 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/18 From: Diocese of Fort Worth Posts: 3 |
Pagan Rite still available on dfms website!
http://www.dfms.org/41685_52038_ENG_Print.html |
| m_clemons | Posted: 2004/10/30 16:59 Updated: 2004/10/30 16:59 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/18 From: Diocese of Fort Worth Posts: 3 |
Evidence of The Rev. Melnyk organizing public Druid Rites found here.
http://www.druidnetwork.org/articles/reflections.html |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2004/10/30 17:58 Updated: 2004/10/30 17:58 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
A quotation from the bottom of that page:
"© 2003: copyright remains with the original writers and most particularly with Bill Melnyk, who can be reached at OakWyse@att.net" Might I suggest that Rev'd Melnyk wishes to be contacted regarding his creative prowess? He did, after all, "most particularly" provide his email address.... |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2004/10/30 22:02 Updated: 2004/10/30 22:26 |
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David, My Friend,
Actually, there are a couple of factual errors in your article, probably picked up from one of the other blogs. I knew you'd want to correct them, in the interest of fairness and accuracy. Anyone can visit St. Francis or St. James Church and see for themselves the Women's Eucharist from the EWM website is not now, nor has it ever been, used at either church. At St. Francis the schedule is Rite 1 at the early service and Rite 2 at the later service. At St. James we use Rite 1 (Prayer1, with Prayer of Humble Access) at 7:45, and Rite 2 at 11:00. At our 9:00 am children-oriented family service we had been using an Evangelical Eucharist from the Iona Community -- a Christian Eucharist. Because of this current flap, however, we have changed that to the Prayer Book Rite 2 service. Nothing other than orthodox Christian rites have ever been used at either church. Please visit us on a Sunday and see. Because of the spurious charge of misuse of my discretionary fund cooked up by one of the weblogs, I have submitted my records to my Senior Warden for audit. He was able to report to the Bishop there has never been any improper use of my discretionary fund, and no donations were ever sent to any groups outside the Episcopal Church. Glyn and I both invite any readers of this blog to visit either of our churches at any time, and talk with any members of our congregation about the orthodoxy of our preaching, teaching, or liturgical leadership. This also goes for the Rector of Good Samaritan, Mr. Greg Brewer, who has expressed concern without seeking any knowledge whatsoever regarding what he is concerned about. Mr. Brwer, you have a multi-clergy staff. Please do visit St. Francis and St. James on a Sunday and learn the truth for yourself. I can understand the issues many people have with the leadership of ECUSA. But the wanton disregard for the well being of the good people of St. Francis Parish and St. James Parish is inexcusable. And yes, I would welcome anyone else who wishes not only to write me at OakWyse@att.net, but to come to St. James on Sunday and see for yourself. Truth has no fear of contending with lies. David, please do make these corrections. But not just on my word. Please come to Church at St. Francis and at St. James and see. By the way, the "shell" I wear sometimes when not wearing a cross is the ancient Christian symbol of Baptism, and is quite well-known as the Symbol of St. James, for whom our parish is named. Peace to All, The Rev. Bill Melnyk |
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| Herb50 | Posted: 2004/10/30 23:05 Updated: 2004/10/30 23:05 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/18 From: Olympia Posts: 39 |
Billy and Glyn,
You forgot to explain your extra curricular activities. Please explain in full. You may believe what you do on your time is your business. But, there are a few things incompatible with orders and your oath. For example if you belong to a swinger's club some eyebrows might be raised. Your case is a good example of why many have issues with the priesthood going well beyond the affirmation and adulation of anal intercourse. Please do the right thing and resign. |
| essodalori | Posted: 2004/10/30 23:19 Updated: 2004/10/30 23:19 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Indeed. Are you two disciples of Christ in all things, in every aspect of your lives - or of something (or someone) else?
Essodalori |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2004/10/30 23:28 Updated: 2004/10/30 23:35 |
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You will certainly say it is good to hear that we are indeed disciples of Jesus Christ in all things.
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| essodalori | Posted: 2004/10/30 23:31 Updated: 2004/10/30 23:44 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/9/15 From: Posts: 4904 |
Thank you. I'm certain to say that it is good to hear.
Essodalori |
| anglicanxn | Posted: 2004/10/31 1:20 Updated: 2004/10/31 1:20 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/1/4 From: New England Posts: 111 |
Bill,
I am glad that you wrote in response to the article. I have no doubt that both parishes use BCP services, except as you note regarding the Iona service. Have you read Robert Sanders' article on "The Ecstatic Heresy"? If you have, would you be kind enough to tell us if you interpret the Christian faith from the perspective of Schliermacher? And if you have not, please do so; it will help you understand what we are talking about. If you do use a Schliermachian perspective, then you can both "follow Christ" and engage in druid rites -- because, from this perspective, both Christian ceremonies and druid rites are ways of encountering the ineffable divine, and do not inherently contradict each other. This viewpoint is why so many "mainline" Christians get involved in a variety of practives from other religions -- for no religion is more true than any other religion, if Schliermacher is correct. There does seem to be a lot of evidence connecting you to the authorship of neo-pagan rites, even if you have never used them, except perhaps to discuss them (though it does look as though you have used them, at Stonehenge at least.) If you do not approach the Christian faith from a Schliermachian perspective, it should be clear to you that you cannot engage in such rites -- and that even writing them is spiritually dangerous. There is but one living and true God, and he has revealed himself to us -- accurately, if not exhaustively, in Scripture. |
| Pasha | Posted: 2004/10/31 4:11 Updated: 2004/10/31 4:11 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/21 From: Posts: 46 |
Bill Melnyk,
I must say that I do not believe you. There is too much evidence against you. You are lying to say that you can be a Christian and also carry out Druid/ Pagan rites. Choose this day who you will serve God or Satan. Repent of all your involvement in any connection with Druid actvities. Otherwise I will have no choice but to excommunicate you and hand you over to Satan for the sifting of your soul. Your lack of replial will be your signal that you do not repent. Go back to Exodus 20, you can have no other Gods, but the Lord God. I am disgusted that you can go around masquerading as a Christian. There is no room in heaven for witchcraft. You are as big a prostitute of the gospel as Rowan Williams. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2004/10/31 16:24 Updated: 2004/10/31 16:24 |
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My Goodness, Pasha, you are a powerful person. Is it normative on this board for persons to claim to have the power to cast people into hell? I thought such power belonged only to God! Is heresey rearing its ugly head in your posts as well?
And, yes, I choose God. And yes, I am a follower of Jesus Christ, who is my Lord and Savior. And Scripture tells us no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the power of the Holy Spirit. Peace to You, Bill |
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| marksj | Posted: 2004/10/31 17:49 Updated: 2004/10/31 17:49 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/2/22 From: Diocese of El Camino Real Posts: 36 |
Dear Bill, I salute your courage. I do think it takes courage to respond to the recent discussions about you in the manner in which you have responded.
I appreciate your explanation of the shell. That one troubled me initially, but I understand much better now. Thank you. My friend, the issue that remains pending seems to be whether the non-Church activities of a priest should be consistent with the person's mininstry in the Church of Jesus Christ. You have not answered directly: 1. Do you feel a priest's life (all of it) needs to be consistent with discipleship to Jesus Christ? 2. Should a priest's non-Church activities be transparent, or open to the public, the vestry, and/or the bishop? To what degree? For example, would that include how a priest registers to vote? 3. Have you disclosed all relevant facts about your life to your vestry and bishop? The boundries here are obviously difficult. Don't worry about the financial stuff. Church folk often get all tied up in knots over church finances. As a CPA, I can tell you that all disagreements of this nature can be fixed with a good system of communication and of checks and balances. It will work out. Thanks again for your reponse. I offer you not just "peace" but I offer the Peace of our Savior, Jesus Christ. I will pray for you--pray for me too. Mark |
| Janjan | Posted: 2004/10/31 18:59 Updated: 2004/10/31 19:00 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Boston Posts: 5 |
Of course the shell represents St James, historically, but you are on record saying it privately represents Athena to you. (Not Aphrodite?)
Also, what exactly was the "study" purpose of the Beltaine ritual? I was going to ask you why you just don't come out of the broom closet on this most appropriate day, but then I realized that of course Druid priests don't get a regular paycheck and living expenses. Me? Cynical? you bet. |
| BibleWheel | Posted: 2004/10/31 21:01 Updated: 2004/10/31 21:23 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Posts: 6 |
I certainly would say "it is good to hear that [you] are indeed disciples of Christ in all things" if only I could, but is that possible given the fact that you, under the name OakWyse, designed and propogated on the web a pagan sex ritual in whoreship to the idol BEL, and your wife wrote the apostate eucharist that explicitly advocated defiance of the True God and alliance with demons? The verse your wife chose to defy the Living God is the very verse where He tells us not even to pray for you! (Jer. 7:16-18)
I presented the evidence here: http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41138 If I have erred, I will publicly repent. In service of Almighty God, the only True Judge, Richard Amiel McGough |
| Janjan | Posted: 2004/10/31 21:06 Updated: 2004/10/31 21:08 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Boston Posts: 5 |
"Don't worry about the financial stuff."
Mark, are you aware that Fr Melnyk solicited funds to buy a Druid related property on his Druid massege board? he specifically asked that the donations be sent to the Discretionary fund at St James. I may be stupid but I'm not dumb. Perhaps the only reason no donations to inappropriate places were made from that fund is that none of his Druid friends sent any money in the first place. |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2004/10/31 21:08 Updated: 2004/10/31 21:08 |
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Mark, you wrote:
"You have not answered directly: 1. Do you feel a priest's life (all of it) needs to be consistent with discipleship to Jesus Christ?" Yes, I do. Indeed, I feel every Christian ought to strive for such a life. Of course perhaps the best we can do is to strive for it, and trust for grace to do the rest. "2. Should a priest's non-Church activities be transparent, or open to the public, the vestry, and/or the bishop? To what degree? For example, would that include how a priest registers to vote?" No, I don't agree to this. To suggest such would assume that a priest was a different order of being from other humans. This would, I think, do insult to the doctrine of incarnation, the nature of Christian priesthood, and the nature of humanity in general. None of us would survive complete transparency in our lives. We are all sinners dependent upon the mercy of God, and too quick to judge the faults of others while our own remain hidden. I suspect there are none without sin on this board, but many stones are being thrown. 3. Have you disclosed all relevant facts about your life to your vestry and bishop? Yes, I have. Though I readily admit that some might debate what the relevent facts are. You know, I remember the trouble Paul got into with both his Christian and Jewish colleagues when he conducted his ministry in ways they found unacceptable. His reply was simple: "I become all things to all people" in order to reach as many as possible. In my ministry, the many people who have said to me, "Thank you for showing me that Jesus is more loving than I ever imagined from my experience of the church" outweighs all the recent attacks. Many thanks, Mark, for your civility. Truly the Light of Christ shines in you. Peace, Bill |
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| ahcrouch | Posted: 2004/10/31 21:16 Updated: 2004/11/1 0:44 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Posts: 3 |
I have been following this story with great interest since I attend a church (Good Samaritan) in the Melnyks' diocese.
First, I want to note that Mr. Virtue's reporting is inexcusably sloppy. He attributes quotes to "another priest" that actually come from Ted Olsen's reporting on CT's Weblog. He states in the headline that "Pennsylvania Parish Priests Practice Pagan Eucharistic Ceremony"--whereas no conclusive evidence has been brought forward that these ceremonies have actually been performed, especially in the context of a Christian church. Given the sensitivity of the issue, these and other errors are a serious disservice. By far the most comprehensive and reliable reporting remains the three (so far) posts on CT's Weblog. (Full disclosure: I write frequently for CTI publications.) Second, I am astonished that Fr. Melnyk has posted here. The evidence available online is so overwhelmingly compelling that he and the Rev. Glyn Melnyk have advocated the worship of Astarte and other pagan gods, that he seriously risks self-incrimination by answering his critics in any forum other than a church hearing--which I certainly hope will be forthcoming. However, since you are answering questions here, Fr. Melnyk, I would love to know: * Whether you are the author of more than 500 posts on Druidry.org, originally under the name "Druis," now, I believe, under the name "Thrum"? If you are, why did you instruct the moderators of that board to remove your posts? What exactly did you fear? As you state, "Truth has no fear of contending with lies." (Fortunately I and others have an offline copy of your most interesting statements on that board, in case there should be further attempts to cover your tracks.) * Could you comment on your statement on that site on Tuesday, 24 February 2004, that "I, personally, do not wear a cross unless it is a Solar Cross. Often I wear a silver shell, which most Christians I meet think is a symbol of Baptism but which, for me, also represents Athena!" (signed "Druis")? How do you understand your devotion to Athena to comport with the Shema Israel, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"? * When you wrote of yourself and your spouse, "Between us, we lead two groves (some call them "congregations") of Christians learning about Druidry numbering about 1200" (Saturday 20 March 2004), to what forms of religious instruction were you referring? * When you wrote "My congregation strives to learn about and honor its Pagan roots. On February 2nd we will celebrate Imbolc as well as Candlemas, and learn about how Brighid (Goddess and Saint) connects the two" (Sunday 11 January 2004), could you elaborate on this liturgical event? * On 23 August 2004 you wrote, "I am now soliciting funds to aid in the purchase and development of the White Spring. A Trust will be available soon. Until then, donations can be sent to me and made payabe to "Saint James Church" earmarked for "Rector's Discretionary Fund-White Spring" These donationas are tax deductable." I am not surprised that in fact no donations were received, and therefore there is nothing improper in the books of the Rector's Discretionary Fund at present. But do you deny that it was your intention to funnel gifts toward a pagan site through that fund? How do you explain this message? * Could you elaborate on your meaning when you wrote on 24 February 2004, "Whether I am using my wand or staff to cast a circle in the stone circle in my back yard, or uttering the Opening Acclamation of the Eucharist at the altar in my church, I am doing the same thing: recognizing "sacred space.""? * Could you explain how the many rituals by you on the Tuatha de Brighid Web site, especially those that include prayer to gods such as Bel, Astarte, the Horned King, et al., gods rejected by the authors of Scripture, are compatible with your vow at your ordination to "pattern your life and that of your family in accordance with the teachings of Christ, so that you may be a wholesome example to your people"? I could go on, but these questions will do for a start. Finally, I'd be eager to know how familiar your congregation and vestry are with your writings, which are of such remarkable volume and specificity online. Sincerely, Andy Crouch |
| BibleWheel | Posted: 2004/10/31 21:47 Updated: 2004/10/31 22:01 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Posts: 6 |
Melnyk wrote:
You know, I remember the trouble Paul got into with both his Christian and Jewish colleagues when he conducted his ministry in ways they found unacceptable. His reply was simple: "I become all things to all people" in order to reach as many as possible. Paul didn't become a pagan worshipper of the idol BEL! What kind of mental breakdown are we witnessing here? Melnyk knows that we all know about his explicit invocations of pagan gods. That's why he took down his webpage that stated the following: On the web as "OakWyse" since 1994, he is the Organizer of RavenOak Grove. OakWyse is a Druid Grade member of OBOD, and an Anglican Priest. He is committed to the exploration of the Common Ground upon which rest ancient Druidry and English Christian Spirituality. This page is still available through Google's cache, but due to something about this software I can't post the url without breaking off the search string. So first copy this: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:VsR444Pky_oJ: Then append this to form one long string: www.oakwyse.org/RavenOak.html+oakwyse&hl=en In service of Him before Whom "all things are naked and opened," Richard Amiel McGough |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2004/10/31 22:39 Updated: 2004/10/31 22:54 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
I am having trouble believing that OakWyse can actually justify his paganry to some of the people who have posted here.
It is exactly this sort of wishy-washiness ("well, I don't care what he does on his personal time") that allowed pederasts and child molesters into the Church in the first place. Reminds me of Bill Clinton and his "off the clock" plaything, Monica Lewinski. Fact is, it is absurd to even attempt a defense of your actions, OakWyse. Regarding your oaths from Baptism to Ordination, you are a liar, a hypocrite, and quite possibly in violation of your employment agreement which I am quite sure has clauses against moonlighting in exchange for a salary and housing allowance. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A LEADER. LEADERS LEAD BY EXAMPLE and you are setting a doozy. No wonder our youth believe they can do what they damned well please and TALK their way out of the consequences. GOOD GRIEF! I could almost--almost!--see moonlighting as a car mechanic, a part-time college teacher, etc., but frolicking in the druidic moonlight itself is, if nothing else, a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. You're working for the competition for crying out loud! And if Jesus thinks it's OK to dance naked about the oak tree, then why did he remind us that HE and ONLY HE "is the way, the truth and the light"? "None shall know the Father save through me" if I recall the versicle correctly. Hmmmm? All this and I must add: I agree. Druidism seems to have many Chrsitian presages to it. Many of them. It is entirely possible that it is a bastardized echo of a memory of the ancient faith, passed down over millenia by the descendants of the tribe of Dan or some such thing. But you are paid to study, preach, and live Christ's way--not the druidic ways. Wanna guess why? Because as a Christian, those way were ALL obsoleted on Calvary. And if you don't understand that, then you are unfit to draw a dime of pay from an allegedly Christian church. Find some other way to earn your daily bread. I hear acorns are very tasty boiled, steeped, steeped again, mashed into a mush and baked on a hot rock. Yum. |
| Janjan | Posted: 2004/10/31 22:41 Updated: 2004/10/31 22:41 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Boston Posts: 5 |
"You know, I remember the trouble Paul got into with both his Christian and Jewish colleagues when he conducted his ministry in ways they found unacceptable. His reply was simple: "I become all things to all people" in order to reach as many as possible"
This is interesting. Paul did not have Jewish and "Christian" colleagues. He had Jewish and Gentile followers of Christ. I find this fascinating because I recall from my own experience how blatently anti-semitic the neopagan movement can be. Not just the nasty neo nazi Asatru (norse gods) types but even the nice "fluffy -bunny" types were virulently opposed to the "Jewish desert god". Since that "Jewish desert god" is actually the Father of whom Jesus speaks, you have to jump through a few hoops to minimize that very important distinction. And I notice too that the Druid Network is all tied up with the ISM and boycotting Israeli products. Maybe its just a slip of the tongue, but I think it's also the elephant in the room. |
| ahcrouch | Posted: 2004/10/31 22:53 Updated: 2004/10/31 22:53 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Posts: 3 |
I'm sorry, I just have to post once more to say that I'm very uncomfortable adding to the conversation on this board. I find Mr. Virtue's tone, and all the more the tone of many commenters, repugnant.
The only reason I posted here is that Fr. Melnyk is engaged in dialogue here and nowhere else online that I have found. And I do think that the issues need to be clearly laid out in a public forum, especially when his previous posts have skirted some central issues. Again, honestly I would counsel Fr. Melnyk not to respond further here--until he consults a lawyer. He's going to need a good one. This, of course, doesn't mean that I am not scandalized by what I have read attributed to "OakWyse" and "Glispa." It is patently an offense to Christ and his Church. But how that online material relates to the ministries of the Revs. Melnyk is up to their vestries and bishop to decide--by asking questions here (and posting thoughts elsewhere) I'm not pretending I am competent to decide. May judgment be rendered fairly, faithfully, and speedily, and may it lead to repentance and restoration if that is needed. In Christ, Andy Crouch |
| fgoodwin | Posted: 2004/10/31 23:27 Updated: 2004/10/31 23:27 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/3/4 From: Diocese of West Texas Posts: 25 |
Fr. Melnyk:
In "becoming all things to all people", I can understand posting a Christian message in pagan terms to a pagan website, but posting a pagan message to a Christian website? I wonder what purpose was served by your wife posting the "Women's Liturgy" to the ECUSA webpage? How was that "being all things to all people"? Some of the things Oakwyse wrote on the Druid website include rituals in the nude with a female "priestess". How exactly do you square your priestly vows with such a ceremony? Yours in Christ, Fred Goodwin Diocese of West Texas |
| Joe of the Mountain | Posted: 2004/10/31 23:30 Updated: 2004/10/31 23:30 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/1/3 From: Posts: 3472 |
There is an old Army saying Andy:
"Lead, follow, or get out of the way." There is a related saying from the 1970s: "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." The constant "conversations" within ECUSA are the efficient cause of the disintegration of American Anglicanism. Even a fool can see that. Earl Fox wrote a brillian essay, posted on this site, about "dialog to consensus" in which he points out that "consensus" is always on the terms of the Left. PArdon me, but I've had enough losing "consensus" to last me a lifetime. It is well past time that even wishy-washy Episcopalians discover their backbones and "just say no". If not to pansexuality, then at least to open paganism. If that's not asking too much, anyway. |
| ahcrouch | Posted: 2004/11/1 0:39 Updated: 2004/11/1 0:39 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Posts: 3 |
Fr. Melnyk -
Just for completeness, I am eager to hear more about the following topics as well. (Not that I think you should answer in this forum. I will be sending supporting documentation on to Bishop Bennison as well.) 1. On the Tuatha de Bridghid web site there is posted a ritual for "Beltaine" that is both sexually explicit (including the option of multiple sexual partners) and transparently blasphemous (invoking other gods including Bel by name). When you wrote on the Druidry.org forums on 8 May 2004, "On the afternoon of May 1, Raevyfyre and I climbed Dun Lathraichean beside Saint Columba's Bay on Iona, looked out across the sea to Beith & her group in Ireland, and did our Beltaine ritual in support of Tara."--were you referring to this ritual? If not, could you describe the ritual you performed? (On 20 March 2004, you stated, "We love Scotland, and go to Iona every spring for Beltaine.") 2. How is the creed you attributed to yourself--without further elaboration--on 20 March 2004 compatible with the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds? You wrote, "My creed? 'There is only one river.'" 3. On 11 January 2004 you wrote (long quote follows): # # # I am a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, because in him I see a profound example of the presence of holiness, the "Ground of Being," in human flesh. But I believe that everything the Church now says about Jesus, Jesus himself said about people in general. God's (or the Gods') incarnation is everywhere, and in everyone. This makes me certainly a panentheist (God is in everything), and perhaps a pantheist (everything is God) I believe that the concepts of resurrection and reincarnation are non-provable metaphors for exactly the same thing: life is stronger than death. And people should not set one of those metaphors over against another. Heaven is fully integrated life in the presence and awareness of the Holy. (BTW - "hell" is being in heaven and not liking it. A position people put themselves in, not God.) The catholic church is a fallible body trying to be the incarnate body of God in the world, and doing only as well as is humanly possible. Every other loving faith group is the same. I am a follower of Jesus mac Dei, but I am very unsure about the "one, holy, catholic, apostolic church." The Bible is the record of the search for God of a specific tradition through the ages. It contains some truth, some beauty, some pathos, and a whole lot of garbage. Like everything else, it makes you dig for what's valuable in it. # # # Without questioning the sincerity of your struggles with Christian belief, how are these sentiments compatible with your ordination vows? Sincerely, Andy Crouch |
| BibleWheel | Posted: 2004/11/1 1:30 Updated: 2004/11/1 1:30 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Posts: 6 |
The OBOD of which Melnyk admits to being a fully trained member has roots that reach into Aleister Crowley's OTO which lies bound in the absolute heart of SATANIC BLACK MAGIC. This is no joke. Crowley himself invoked Satan as his personal "Holy Guardian Angel." This stuff is all deeply connected.
It needs to be researched. In service of Jesus Christ, Richard Amiel McGough |
| PJLILL | Posted: 2004/11/1 2:34 Updated: 2004/11/1 2:34 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/7/21 From: Alberta Posts: 310 |
Firstly, I do not see that Bill Melynk has yet answered the crucial question - is it compatible to be both a practising Christian priest and a practising Druid? If so, please explain why?
Secondly, ahcrouch said "I find Mr. Virtue's tone, and all the more the tone of many commenters, repugnant". I found one that could be classed in that category of tone : "First, I want to note that Mr. Virtue's reporting is inexcusably sloppy". It's dangerous to point fingers! Yes, some of the language and tone here is intemperate at best. But you've got to understand there's a lot of genuine hurt, anger and frustration at the base of it (as well as self-righteousness, I'm sure). Funnily enough, even Virtuosity posters are sinners and mess up, get it wrong, overreact etc etc. But distainfully brushing people off doesn't make you any better. Why not stay a while and mess up with us? ![]() |
| BibleWheel | Posted: 2004/11/1 4:03 Updated: 2004/11/1 16:46 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Posts: 6 |
The Druid organization that trained Melnyk has posted explicit satanic rituals the are closely patterned on those of the notorious and blatant satanist, Aleister Crowley. Here is the link:
http://www.druidry.org/obod/ancestors/summerlands.html Here is some of the more egregious blasphemy from that page: The Guardian mockingly confronts you and demands: "WHO IS YOUR GOD? ......... WHO IS YOUR GOD?" ............ answer ...... the question reverberates through you.... continue to give your answer, until ......... you shout it aloud I AM!........ You are on fire....... burning up .... all aflame ...... but not dying ...... only a GOD can do this!!! ..... you have no body, so you can't be on fire!..... you are aflame .... you have no feelings...not emotions... so you feel no pain! The fire releases your Spiritual nature..... The I AM is a surrender .... You surrender to your Higher Self, your Holy Guardian Angel, your Divine SELF..... the God or Goddess within ..... the ONE ... Who is now in control .... you and your Higher Self are ONE and are a single flame ....... The Guardian speaks: "You have passed the tests, and may enter the presence of your First Ancestor, the Father of all, the Dark Lord of Death and Resurrection." The Dark Lord, the Comforter and Consoler, HERNE the Hunter; CERNUNNOS the Horned One; now greets you, and welcomes you.... Remember, this is from the Druid site from the group who trained Melnyk, and it contains many of his own rituals. His Apostasy is obviously absolute. But there still is a lot of research to do on the Druid - Crowley link. I don't think I'll bother to do it, which is why I posted it here in hopes someone else will pick up this thread. One other thing: The Druid site is currently changing references to Oakwyse to AncientDruid. It is fun to watch - just use their search function and compare the current pages with the cached. In service of Christ and His Church, Richard Amiel McGough |
| tradition1 | Posted: 2004/11/1 12:23 Updated: 2004/11/1 12:23 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/6/15 From: Posts: 13 |
The apostacy we are witnessing here is nothing new. What can you expect from a church that long ago denied the power of God - Fatrher, Son, & Holy Ghost- when it gutted its liturgy in the 1970's and allowed priestesses. This is the ultimate culmination of God's judgement open the Satanic feminist-cult called ECUSA. Save yourselves now: Get out!!! May God protect you and guide you.
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| smokymtn | Posted: 2004/11/1 16:14 Updated: 2004/11/1 16:14 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/16 From: Posts: 49 |
In Mr. Virtue's report, he mentions the great (and deserved) ire of Bishop Roseberry toward Ms. Rose of the OWM and her reply to the Bishop: "It is my personal theology that the clarity of who we are as Episcopalians is often enhanced by our engagement with things that are 'Other" and this is clearly 'Other'". A word of warning: watch out, memebers of ECUSA! In his address to the HOB in September of this year, Mr. Griswold spoke of embracing the "otherness" of people, in this particular instance referring to homosexuals. This buzz term of "otherness" has become more frequent withing the ECUSA and now we see it in Ms. Rose's weak reply to Bishop Roseberry. Now we are seeing this concept of embracing "otherness" taken to a further evolution (devlolution?) in the ECUSA.
In Christ, Smoky |
| raeko777 | Posted: 2004/11/1 18:24 Updated: 2004/11/1 18:24 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/8/30 From: Holy Comforter, Spring, TX Posts: 126 |
This issue of paganism in the church greatly concerns me. I used to be close to someone who was a Wiccan, and I can tell you a lot of things. First of all, they deceive people, and have no qualms about doing it. God is VERY CLEAR about witchcraft in the bible.
The Lord says that you cannot serve two masters. Yet, when we talk about the people in Pennsylvania, that is exactly what they're trying to do. They can try and candycoat it all they want and try and make it as beautiful as possible, but it is still an abomination to God. There are churches(those in PA included) that have been tainted by these teachings by some level or another. I am talking about those who sell pumpkins, have halloween parties, dress their kids up, or dress up themselves. This is SERIOUS. It is not some parlour game. Wicca, Druidism, Satanism, is deception, and is there to steal, kill and destroy. May God change the hearts of the people in Pennsylvania, so that they may know the love of Christ. In Christ, Erik |
| BibleWheel | Posted: 2004/11/1 19:29 Updated: 2004/11/1 19:29 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Posts: 6 |
I just emailed this to every Primate in the worldwide Aglican Communion.
=========================================== God has given a great victory to all His Saints on All Saints Day! The story has been blogged for days. It broke into the mainstream media today with this article from the Washington Times: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041101-122457-1902r.htm Here's one of the main blogs that first exposed this "wickedness in high places." http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1589 Here's my detailed examination of one of the most explicit acts of Pagan Sex Worship to BEL promulgated by an Apostate Episcopal Priest: http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41138 Here is what God Almighty tells His Saints: FLEE FROM THE APOSTATE BABYLONIAN US EPISCOPAL CHURCH! There are many Scriptures that tell us what we are to do to help the remnant escape from Babylon: Jer 50:28 The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of the LORD our God, the vengeance of his temple. Jer 50:29 Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel. Jer 50:31 Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord GOD of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee. Jer 50:32 And the most proud shall stumble and fall, and none shall raise him up: and I will kindle a fire in his cities, and it shall devour all round about him. And here is the Scripture we must fulfill in service of God and His Church: Jer 51:31 One post shall run to meet another, and one messenger to meet another, to shew the king of Babylon that his city is taken. Post this knowledge to everyone you know! Warn the Remnant of God's People to flee the Apostate Babylonian US Episcopal Church! In service of Almighty God and His Church, Richard Amiel McGough |
| Anonymous | Posted: 2004/11/4 13:02 Updated: 2004/11/4 13:02 |
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I have today sent this letter to my Bishop. My wife has sent a similar letter:
Dear Bishop, Recently it has been brought to light by several agencies and individuals that I have been involved in work with Druid organizations in the United States and England, exploring the relationships between Christian and pre-Christian Druid spirituality and theology. These individuals and agencies have presented you with pages of documentation of my activities from the internet. You and I have discussed this material, and you have pointed out to me that it is the opinion of the church that my involvement, writings, and activities go beyond the bounds expected of a Christian and a Christian priest. I affirm to you with all my heart it was never my intention to engage in such error, but only to help others who had lost connection to the Church to find a way to reconnect. I also thought that there was much in our early British heritage that could help those of us in the Church to broaden our understanding of Anglican tradition. I was wrong. I repent of and recant without qualification anything and everything I may have said or done which is found to be in conflict with the Baptismal Covenant, and the historical Creeds of the Church. With God as my witness, I reaffirm my belief in the historical creeds of the Church, and the Baptismal Covenant, and reaffirm to you my faith, as expressed in that covenant. I am resigning my membership in the Order of Bards, Ovates, and Druids, as a sign of my repentence. I have been a follower of Jesus Christ since my Baptism in 1947, and a faithful Deacon and Priest of the Church, with the exception of the error admitted above, since 1981. It is my desire to continue as such, and I ask for the mercy of the Church, and of our Lord Jesus Christ. Sincerely, The Rev. W. William Melnyk I now take pains to publicly affirm this statement, and to thank the contributors to the various Anglican weblogs for bringing this to my attention and helping me to see the truth. The Rev. W. William Melnyk |
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| PJLILL | Posted: 2004/11/4 15:27 Updated: 2004/11/4 15:27 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/7/21 From: Alberta Posts: 310 |
Firstly, I would want to applaud this letter of repentance, and all the sentiments expressed within.
Secondly, I hope this is genuine. This is very very different in tone from some of the earlier sentiments expressed. My nasty suspicious mind wonders how much of this is job-related. As there may well be some legitimate doubt remaining, it might be good to have a period of genuine restitution. Having said this, I'm still very pleased to see such a positive response. Thank you Bill. Praise God. |
| BibleWheel | Posted: 2004/11/4 22:35 Updated: 2004/11/4 22:35 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/31 From: Posts: 6 |
Bill,
We all hope and pray this repentance is real. Please understand that there are many reasons to doubt, so we will really need your help to show us that we can be in communion. Here is where I would like to start. 1) How did you think that a pagan sex ritual devoted to Bel, which you told people you yourself practiced each Beltaine, would "help others who had lost connection to the Church to find a way to reconnect?" 2) Didn't your conscience bother you at all when you devised a public sex ritual for two (or more) people? Does it grieve your conscience now? 3) Above, I posted the Druid ritual patterned on satanist Aleister Crowley's work, invoking the Dark Lord called "the Holy Guardian Angel." I am very familiar with Druidry and Crowley's satanism, and know that they are closely related. Didn't your Christian conscience ever alert you to the danger, blaspemy, and evil of these rituals? How do you feel about them now? Thanks Bill, I promise you I will discuss these things in a Christian fashion. We only want the truth. In service of Almighty God, Who graces us with His Holy Spirit to convict us or our sin, Richard Amiel McGough |
| traska | Posted: 2004/11/5 1:15 Updated: 2004/11/5 1:15 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/6/17 From: Iowa Posts: 53 |
I can't really articulate why I think something is amiss, but I just sense something that troubles me. Instead of flinging brickbats, I will wait to see if fruits of repentance are in evidence. Daylight has been shown on the situation. People are watching, intently it would seem. If this man's confessions has roots set deeply in contrition, the fruits will appear in time. One way or another, for better or worse, the fruits always appear.
Traska |
























