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Exclusives : PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The Son of God is a Hell's Angel
Posted by David Virtue on 2012/1/2 9:20:00 (4913 reads)

PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: She Describes the Son of God as a Hell's Angel "Gang Leader" and "Party Animal"
Her lack of concern for all American Anglicans as well as for the wider Anglican Communion comes from her own deformed image of God. Everyone in the Episcopal Church and indeed the Anglican Communion has suffered because of her confused thinking.

By Sarah Frances Ives Ph. D.
Special to Virtueonline
www.virtueonline.org
January 2, 2012

As I have written in recent articles, Katharine Jefferts Schori has exposed her non-Christian theology in her recent book The Heartbeat of God (Skylight Paths Publishing, 2011). Throughout her disorganized writing, she attacks most of Western society while offering bizarre Biblical interpretations. Her endless criticism of others includes attacks on the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, as well as other unnamed bishops and archbishops.

Also in this book, Jefferts Schori criticizes most of American society, including irrational attacks on both the United States military and all sports teams. Shockingly, she says that participation in the military and sports teams is just like prostitution, the selling of the physical act of sexual intercourse. She writes, "Many young people are being raised in a system that says they have value only for the ways in which they can be used-by tricks on the corner or by athletic teams or by the military." (33)

Both our honored military life and athletic teams build on a sense of respect and honor that Jefferts Schori denies in her attacks.

The military's code of honor instills in the United States service men and women a sense of selflessness which many times is realized when they make the ultimate sacrifice.

Athletic teams teach all of its members to strive for excellence and learn to work in close cooperation with others for a common goal, while respecting the other team that might win.

Yet Jefferts Schori believes that the Army private serving his or her country in Afghanistan is like a prostitute standing on a street corner looking for illegal and inappropriate sexual behavior with a stranger.

Acts of prostitution, or the slang word "tricks" as Jefferts Schori uses, are for her similar to a Michael Phelps' relay team at the Olympics.

Men and women involved in the violent and illegal sex trade need Christian deliverance and can find this through the mercy of our Lord. Jefferts Schori, though, never says this and complacently accepts this sad and utterly corrupt way of life.

Throughout The Heartbeat of God, Jefferts Schori makes other sweeping negative pronouncements about American society and Western life. By the sixth paragraph of the introduction, Schori has denied the validity of capitalism as she brushes past economic advisors and judged herself about Wall Street and economics. No need here of rational thought, study and research: she has all the answers up her sleeve.

She superficially judges about who is causing economic problems in Western life, writing that problems are caused by "the wealthiest-money managers, bankers, and investors." (pg. xiv)

If the wealthy continue to make profits, according to Schori, then "violence and bloodshed, and ensuing global insecurity, can be the expected result."

Has Jefferts Schori never taken a basic economics class? Does she not understand that through capitalism many of the problems of poverty are solved? In capitalistic societies, hope exists for struggling human beings to be raised out of subsistence into abundance.

Indeed, Jefferts Schori expresses great contempt for the United States. She writes about "our nation's addiction to oil, uninhibited growth, and consumerism, as well as old-fashioned greed and what the Christian tradition calls hubris and idolatry." (95-96)

The question becomes by the end of the book what part of Western society has Jefferts Schori not attacked. Wall Street, money managers, bankers, the military, athletic teams, Anglo-Catholics, Anglican bishops, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the Anglican Communion are only some on the list of her victims.

Now that she has taunted most of American society, who are left to join the empty Episcopal parishes? Her disdainful scorn would make most reluctant to even approach an Episcopal Church.

Her vicious attack on the United States destroys her ability to serve as the primary leader in the Episcopal Church. Her verbal attacks on Western society raises questions about what kind of god she is worshipping.

Jefferts Schori's Biblical Interpretations

In her book The Heartbeat of God, Jefferts Schori also taunts Jesus many times, calling him both a Hell's Angel gang leader (115) as well as a "party animal" (4).

Jefferts Schori believes this: Jesus is one of the prophets who pointed out a few things and is not the only begotten Son. The Quran also states this, saying directly that Jesus is a prophet and that no human being has ever been begotten (part of God without a beginning or end.) In contradistinction to this, Christians believe that Jesus came bringing the very power of God the Father within his soul and because of that, evil and death were conquered. Christ changed the status of humanity forever and Christ will come again.

Indeed, Jefferts Schori uses the inappropriate sexual image of seduction to describe the relationship of God with humanity. She writes that people are "lured into relationship with love." (117)

Also, Jefferts Schori describes the Jewish Naomi as a criminal sexual predator working as a pimp stalking Boaz and Ruth as the prostitute. Jefferts Schori writes that Naomi told Ruth "to hightail it over there and 'uncover his feet'-another euphemism-and to lie down beside him." (30) Jefferts Schori writes a violent description of these highly esteemed Biblical characters, saying that "today's equivalents of Ruth and Naomi . . . [are] your women who are being trafficked or groomed for exploitation." (33) For Jefferts Schori, God pushed Ruth and Naomi into the sexual trade without hope of a different life. That surely sounds like a vicious, cruel god.

Jefferts Schori laughs at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah during which Lot and his entire family were threatened with violence in order to save the visiting angels. Jefferts Schori writes about the annihilation of Lot's wife as she was "being entombed in salt" "who hesitates as they flee from Sodom, which God aims to destroy for its abysmal lack of hospitality (Genesis 19:20-26)" (60) To use Jefferts Schori's words, "its abysmal lack of hospitality"? Jefferts Schori obliterates the traditional interpretation here of the destruction of Sodom because of its sexual and violent sins.

Eugen Drewermann on Violent Imagery for God

Because of the Episcopal power granted to her, we need to analyze her theology underlying these vicious attacks and bizarre Biblical interpretations.

Jefferts Schori has expressed corrupt images for the divine throughout her time as presiding bishop. Indeed, she began her ministry as presiding bishop with odd statements about a god who attacks human beings. On November 5, 2006 at the Washington National Cathedral during the formal seating of the new presiding bishop, Jefferts Schori began her sermon talking about the rich, young Frenchman Jacques Fesch. In 1954 Fesch killed a policeman during the course of a robbery in Paris. For this cold-blooded murder, Fesch was beheaded in 1957.

While in prison, he wrote about his experience of God saying, "I was in bed, eyes open, really suffering for the first time in my life. . . . It was then a cry burst from my breast, an appeal for help-My God-and instantly, like a violent wind which passes over without anyone knowing where it comes from, the spirit of the Lord seized me by the throat."

Jefferts Schori interpreted his experience of God writing, "And sometimes the encounter is very much like being seized by the throat . . . Some of us have to be seized by the throat or thrown into the tomb before we can begin to find that depth of compassion." (See both her sermon and Jefferts Schori's A Wing and A Prayer: A Message of Faith and Hope, Morehouse Publishing, 2007, pg. 167).

Jefferts Schori's choice of Fesch's experience of God shows possible Islamic influence. In traditional Muslim understanding, when the Angel Gabriel encountered Muhammad, the angel "choked and threatened him into submission" to make him begin the recitation of the Quran. (Anthology of World Scriptures, Robert E. Van Voorst, Fifth Edition, Thomson Wadsworth, 2006, pg. 288) That image of God attacking a person and forcing submission is indeed accepted in Islam but not in the Christian faith.

In her first sermon as presiding bishop Jefferts Schori says people are (in her own words) "seized" and "thrown" by god.

In The Heartbeat of God, Jefferts Schori intensified her vision of an attacking god. Her image in her most recent book is that god jolts us like the electrical stimulation of a heart pacemaker.

She writes, "God offers a pacemaker jolt to tweak our heart's rhythm." (xiv and 91) She repeats this image multiple times.

Jefferts Schori believes that God grabs people by the throat, throws them into a tomb, and jolts them with an electronic stimulator. This sounds like the definition of torture, not the redemptive love of Jesus Christ.

Instead of the Christian faith, Jefferts Schori believes that god works like an impersonal machine jolting and stunning people. This "stun gun" god would destroy all human freedom and leave terror in its wake.

Jefferts Schori's images of a violent god jerking, shaking and jolting people are images that need to be rejected as non-Christian.

The work of the academic German author, Eugen Drewermann, helps us understand what she is doing. He states that some clergy actually talk about a forgiving Jesus and yet in their hearts believe in a violent god who wants human destruction. Drewermann's example is that Christian priests may actually believe in a god more like a vampire, a "castrative" mother-goddess Cybele, or the God Tonatiuh of the Aztecs "who could maintain the world only if humans were sacrificed to him." (For more about these ideas, see A Violent God-image: an introduction to the work of Eugen Drewermann by Matthias Beier, published in 2004 by Continuum International Publishing group, pages 290-293.) Beier writes that Drewermann found "a violent God-image which turned the God of Jesus effectively into the blood-thirsty image of God." (329)

Drewermann states that some clergy have a violent image for God because of inner conflicts. The priests might not even be aware that they don't believe in a forgiving Savior. Others, though, around them can hear these confused priests' violent images of God and see their twisted faith lived out in their lives. If a priest believes that a violent god needs human suffering, then the more human destruction caused, the better. If god is violent, then the priestly representatives of god must also be violent also (maybe physically but also spiritually violent.)

Jefferts Schori's violent images for god seems a perfect example of Drewermann's theory of a conflicted priest who has decided that god will be pleased with human pain.

Jefferts Schori's own words speak of a god who seizes, throws and jolts people. Sadly we see her living out these images in her interactions with the Episcopal Church.

She has helped seize many church buildings away from worshipping Anglican communities with whom she disagrees.

She has helped throw many decent and eloquent priests out of the ordained ministry.

She has jolted many with her heretical interpretations of the Bible, including her Islamic theology that we are all beloved with the same ontological status of Jesus. Her image of Jesus as a violent gang member and party animal has done damage to the entire Anglican Communion through her new humiliating spin on the Savior of the human race.

Her appalling description of Jesus as the gang leader turns the all of the disciples into violent gang members.

Her vicious attacks on the American society have destroyed the path into the Episcopal Church and her cavalier understanding that those that disagree with her can leave has created a crowded highway of displaced refugees seeking a Christian Church.

Her vision now for new interfaith communities muddies together violent and bizarre images of god that rightfully create fear into the Anglican Communion.

Jefferts Schori has a heart-felt belief in a violent god that has no respect for human freedom; she has lived this out in her ministry and describes a god who throws and jolts human beings against their will. Indeed, she wants all freedom in capitalistic Western society limited so "a more just societal structure would slow the economic advantaging of the wealthiest." (xiv)

A machine-like divinity has nothing to do with the personal Son of God who approaches us without violence with total respect of our freedom. Nowhere in the gospel does Jesus grab, throw and jolt people.

If we apply Drewermann's theory to Jefferts Schori's theology, we understand also why she makes such bizarre Biblical interpretations. Indeed, she declares Jesus is a violent gang member when she writes, "This is Hell's Angel Jesus on a Harley . . . This is gang leader Jesus pushing his homeys." (115) Being a gang member makes Jesus by definition involved with violent crimes against people and property. This image for the second person of the Trinity fulfills precisely what Drewermann writes: Jefferts Schori writes that the Son of God comes to harm humanity. Because her image of god is violent, the thinking will also conform to trying to appease the interior violent god.

More examples of a violent god abound in The Heartbeat of God. Jefferts Schori describes the seventy disciples as roadies, those who work for the musicians from rock n' roll bands. In folklore, the musicians would be involved with promiscuous and inappropriate sexual behavior. So these disciples would be serving abusive gods who harm their sexual partners by their lack of faithfulness.

Jefferts Schori's reference to a suffering leper as "whiny" also comes from her interior violent understanding of a god who scorns a man under the domination of this dread disease. (22)

Jefferts Schori clearly has an interior, violent image for God that she uses in her Biblical interpretations and sadly, also for her decisions made as the Episcopal Church presiding bishop. Her lack of concern for all American Anglicans as well as for the wider Anglican Communion comes from her own deformed image of God. Everyone in the Episcopal Church and indeed the Anglican Communion has suffered because of her confused thinking.

There have always been and always will be people who decide to approach God directly without the loving mediation of God the Son. Without the help of our loving Savior, people fall into idolatrous polytheism, elaborate rituals or unhealthy legal systems, or even worse, into believing that a god wants human destruction or sacrifice.

Jefferts Schori now presides over the destruction of many suffering Anglican churches. She destroys these parishes because she sees them as a competitor and she accomplishes this destruction without any public acknowledgement of the intense pain for which she is responsible. Only a violent god would want what she offers: intense troubles for fellow Christians. Grab the churches away from these Anglicans and they will feel like she has applied electrical prods against their tender souls, their praise-filled love for Jesus.

Presiding Bishop Jefferts Schori image of a grabbing, throwing and jolting God has nothing to do with the divine, gracious gift of the Incarnation.

Jefferts Schori harbors heretical and false images of god. Because of this, she should be removed from this position of trust as Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church.

Under her leadership, Christian truths are disappearing. The Episcopal Church is being rapidly destroyed.

Her whole psyche seems focused on supporting those involved with aberrant sexual behavior while leveling bizarre criticism at most of American society.

Everyone interested in protecting children from sexual abuse should rise up in outrage and call for Jefferts Schori's resignation because she knowingly ordained Rev. Bede Parry, a man who was known to have sexually abused a minor. (For more about this see David Virtue's articles at www.virtueonline.org)

Every prostitute should rise up and call for Jefferts Schori's removal because she has told them that they have no choice in this profession and taken away any hope for sexual redemption. (See virtueonline's Mario Bergner "Is Sexual Redemption Optional?")

Jefferts Schori's acceptance of a destructive god can awaken a primal fear in people because that would be the ultimate horror: a god who takes pleasure in the sexual abuse of a minor would be the complete human disaster leaving humanity without hope for redemption and salvation.

With her stunning and outrageous attacks on most of American life, how could the Episcopal Church ever recover from its precipitous decline? Episcopal military leaders, all military service men and women, bankers, Wall Street executives, all athletic teams, all the Anglican leaders she taunted: the list goes on and on. All of these should be petitioning the House of Bishops to get Jefferts Schori out of this position.

Jefferts Schori has little interest in anyone but people involved in "inappropriate sexual behavior" and then she declares that God works through this.

For Jefferts Schori, God does not work through military personnel living on limited salaries and moving their families every two years for the service of the United States. For Jefferts Schori, God does not work through the college student funding an education through a basketball scholarship.

Jefferts Schori writes, "God works through 'inappropriate sexual behavior.'" (31)

Her fascination with inappropriate sexual behavior runs through The Heartbeat of God. That coupled with her violent image for god explains her ordination of a man she knew had had at least one illegal sexual experience with a minor.

Under Jefferts Schori's direction, Bede Parry who illegally groped a minor later placed his hands on the body and bread of Christ in an Episcopal Church. What could be crueler to his many victims than to know that this man who horrifically abused them walked into a church and became ordained by Jefferts Schori? Yet she apparently delighted in the violent Bede Parry's ministry for she writes, "God calls each and everyone of us beloved." (205) In her writing and in her actions, Jefferts Schori's images of a violent god are being forced on everyone in the Anglican Communion.

Under Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, the Episcopal Church is turning into a small, niche church specializing in violent images of god. Her unorthodox reign of terror with its violent imagery for god has attacked and harmed many.


Sarah Frances Ives is a regular contributor to Virtueonline. She lives in Washington DC with her husband and two children

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Poster Thread
daveball
Posted: 2012/1/2 13:06  Updated: 2012/1/2 13:06
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/12/18
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 3349
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
We have witnessed what seems an interesting progression in Queen Katie from candidacy to present. As a candidate for PB, she was a liar (falsified resume) and a completely unqualified person in addition to being a make believe priestess. It's hard to believe that things get worse but they do and markedly so.

Her expressed views have become more and more heretic and radical. First, she simply denied the resurection, the divinity of Christ, atonement and salvation. Now she is casting God and Jesus as scurrilous persons and deprecating the USA and western society as a whole. She displays, on a regular basis, that she is, basically, an uneducated and completely unsophisticated person making one wonder what on-line university sold her a PhD.

It is really difficult to imagine how anyone can stay in TEC. Can any of the bishops and clergy, much less the laity, really subscribe to what this wiccan is preaching? Can they remember their ordinal vows and not gag on the slime eminating from their "leader"?

How can those in TEC not seriously question the mental stability of their chief shepherd?

Get out. Save your souls. It's that serious.
lwinslow
Posted: 2012/1/2 13:45  Updated: 2012/1/2 13:50
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/2/2
From: Sandy Lake, Manitoba
Posts: 102
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Mrs. Jefferts Schori is an extremely sad case of a mentally ill individual who is trying to justify her life on this earth. She has no consistent theological basis. She has no consistent philosophical direction. She rambles aimlessly through her writings and preaching constantly muddying the waters as she goes - which is symptomatic of an unorganized and deranged mind.

This totally incompetent excuse for a human being needs constant prayer for her to see the light and come to realize the True Efficacy of Christ as her God and Saviour. It is only in recognizing Him that she has any chance of redemption.

When it comes to the people of TEC, if they want to return to the Christian environment they need to take steps to impeach this minion of Satan and find themselves a Christian leader OR move on to a Church led by a Christian!

It is obvious from this article and prior articles re the ABC that both individuals are certifiable and need to be impeached.
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/2 14:29  Updated: 2012/1/2 14:38
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 8150
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Her vicious attack on the United States Military is a personal affront to me as a disabled and retired veteran.

That woman is not fit to be the leader of anything....much less the leader of a so-called "Church." And Lwinslow, I do agree with you that she appears to have a mental deficiency, although I'm not qualified to say that she's mentally ill.

If she has anything, it's an inflated sense of self-importance bordering on a superiority complex because she's a woman in a man's job....and she lets everyone know it.

And daveball, you're right on the mark, as usual! If I were still an Episcopalian, I wouldn't care to admit it in public, because I'd be highly embarrassed.
Herb50
Posted: 2012/1/2 14:53  Updated: 2012/1/2 14:53
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/10/18
From: Olympia
Posts: 285
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
The Presiding Bishopette is who she is. A few years ago it was fashionable to be 'controversial and provocative'. This has worked well for her although it has turned TEC into a freak show from carnival days.

Where is the HOB? There must be circa 200 bishops and you never hear one word of censor! Bishops readily have opinions on world affairs, government, abortion, muslims, war, finance, taxation, housing, weather, nasty sex, air quality, capitalism, etc. but meekly are at Jefferts Schori's beck and call. She bleeds people and resources from their dioceses and they continue to be her toady. Their hearts have been hardened.
mmartha
Posted: 2012/1/2 15:10  Updated: 2012/1/2 15:10
Home away from home
Joined: 2010/8/18
From: Florida
Posts: 1241
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
From first post:
"an uneducated and completely unsophisticated person" = an uninteresting person;
"interesting progression" but not an interesting person.
From third from last para., article:
"Her fascination with" this and that, but she isn't fascinating.
By keeping herself under wraps, who is she? Has she bored people into a no-care attitude? Someone in high profile usually is a personality as expected to be.
elvenstone
Posted: 2012/1/2 15:10  Updated: 2012/1/2 15:10
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2010/9/17
From: Front Royal, VA
Posts: 110
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
"The Episcopal Church Welcomes You" seems a little thin to me these days; given that I am a heterosexual white male Western capitalist disabled veteran. Maybe if we're truly blessed God will turn Katie into a pillar of salt for her abysmal lack of hospitality!
Getmeowt
Posted: 2012/1/2 15:12  Updated: 2012/1/2 15:12
Home away from home
Joined: 2008/1/23
From:
Posts: 162
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Daveball, I agree.

I do wonder, however, if her distorted thinking and beliefs go further back to when her mother converted to Orthodoxy. This had to have set off Her Highness, most notably, when Katie denied her mother an Orthodox funeral and presided over it herself. For someone to stoop that low really makes one question her sanity, let alone being possessed by spirits not of the Lord.
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/2 16:19  Updated: 2012/1/2 16:37
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 8150
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
I see Schori's ministry....if one can call it that....as one of vindictiveness. She acts as if she has a score to settle, and God help anyone who gets in her way. She was raised in the Catholic Church, and when her mother converted to Orthodoxy, she flipped her wig; and it now appears that she swore revenge on her.

She took that revenge out on her when she refused to allow her an Orthodox funeral, as has been stated, and officiated herself....something which no decent Episcopal priest would've done, since they would've honored the deceased person's final request.

She is on a power trip....a vendetta against everyone who opposes her, and if there's one thing that a personality such as hers can't tolerate, it's opposition. Her twisted view of Christianity and its relationship to the world won't permit opposing views, and that's why she wields such power.

As for the bishops of TEC: With a very few exceptions, most of them don't kowtow to her; they hold the same views that she holds, and therefore there's no reason to think that they'll ever rein her in.

The Episcopal "Church" is a lost institution.
unitarian
Posted: 2012/1/2 16:19  Updated: 2012/1/2 16:19
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/12/31
From: Bryn Mawr, PA
Posts: 353
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Thank you for this wonderfully illuminating post. Confronted by all the strange ideas and behavior in TEC I often ask myself "why?" Now, with the analysis of the psychology of violence I think we have an important clue.
Cookie1054
Posted: 2012/1/2 17:13  Updated: 2012/1/2 17:13
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2004/9/30
From: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 38
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Why on earth would anyone feel the need to publish a book on God by this woman? I am sure my four year old daughter has a better understanding of the Almighty than this avowed heretic. I am not sure whether to ridicule Kate for writing such rubbish or the publishing company for wasting paper and ink on her "book".
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/2 18:01  Updated: 2012/1/2 18:01
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 8150
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
She seems to be striking out in all directions, and anyone within range is going to get hit.

What I found so odd was the fact that she struck out at the very one who was supposedly one of her supporters....++Rowan Williams, whose Anglican Communion Office takes TEC money, while he has cautioned her on several occasions.

Schori's a loose cannon whose presence on the Anglican Consultative Council has been damaging to the Communion, and she should be kicked off the Council simply because she IS a loose cannon!
Liberty
Posted: 2012/1/2 19:08  Updated: 2012/1/2 19:08
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/3/6
From:
Posts: 131
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
I wonder if Skylight Paths Publishing has made a profit selling Schori's book The Heartbeat of God?
Did TEC buy books to shore up Schori's book sales?
The theological scholarship of Schori is nearly nonexistent. She knows there is a God.
kepha
Posted: 2012/1/2 19:58  Updated: 2012/1/2 19:58
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/11/16
From:
Posts: 347
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
As a sympathetic outside observer of the Anglican scene (I'm a conservative Presbyterian/Reformed believer with a great appreciation for men like Packer, Stott, Ryle, and Whitefield), I have this observation:

Schori's faith seems to be a bit like that of the demons, as described in James 2:19.
kepha
Posted: 2012/1/2 20:02  Updated: 2012/1/2 20:02
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/11/16
From:
Posts: 347
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Ms. Schori seems to be stuck in the Silly 'Sixties or Sillier 'Seventies, when the most important thing was to "Epater les Bourgeoises", and expect "les Bourgeoises" to pay you for doing it.

My guess is that in her fight to drive out the orthodox Anglicans and hang on to the property by hook or by crook, her ambition is to become the biggest Real Estate fire sale agent in America.
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/2 22:20  Updated: 2012/1/2 22:21
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 8150
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Well, if not that, Kepha, she could give the fictitious Elmer Gantry a run for his money as the most notorious religious snake oil salesman in history.

Actually, she makes him look like a piker in comparison.
Brendan
Posted: 2012/1/2 23:12  Updated: 2012/1/2 23:13
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2010/11/10
From: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 133
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Quite frankly Jefferts Schori makes a complete mockery of her position, but then again quite a few of her predecessors have done a darn good job in diminishing the post as well.
Just out of pure curiosity I want to read her 'book'.
What I find fascinating with some of these upper middle class 'academic'armchair socialist eclesiastical leaders, is that not one of them lives an aescetic existence like St Francis, Ghandi, Mother Theresa, Bede Griffiths etc. When they denounce the trappings of power and prestige, then I will take seriously their contempt for western capitalism etc.
As a son and grandson of WW1 and 2 servicemen,(who were both injured in the line of duty)I find the clergies fascination with absolute pacifism and contempt for war interesting, to say the least. The pen may be mightier than the sword but when you have countries and powers who don't wish to play fair, sometimes the sword has to be used.
mmartha
Posted: 2012/1/3 2:06  Updated: 2012/1/3 2:08
Home away from home
Joined: 2010/8/18
From: Florida
Posts: 1241
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Brendan
Of course, the ABC is an elite scholar, but there are at least five references in Rowan's Rule to his appreciation of an "aescetic existence."
On page one even, Rupert Shortt writes, "He has never been a natural leader or operator, and almost became a monk in his youth."
Moving to one more reference, p. 48, Shortt quotes Rowan's friend Michael Burgess, "Rowan was a delightful personality.... He said he might become a Roman Catholic monk, and I wasn't surprised."
Statmann
Posted: 2012/1/3 2:39  Updated: 2012/1/3 2:39
Home away from home
Joined: 2008/11/20
From:
Posts: 321
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
It has been noted several times above how ++Shori tossed her Mom under the hearse. But now we are informed of her intense disdain for the U.S. Military. I find this juat a bit odd given that her daughter Katherine is a Captain and pilot in the U.S. Air Force. Statmann
railbirdbc
Posted: 2012/1/3 10:42  Updated: 2012/1/3 10:42
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/6/6
From:
Posts: 1052
 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Schori makes James A. Pike look orthodox. Why, even Satan himself is embarrassed to know her. Her comments and views make even Hell look bad in the public eye.

She's a pip alright!
UKUSER
Posted: 2012/1/3 13:17  Updated: 2012/1/3 13:18
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
It's obvious that Jefferts Schori been given over to a reprobate mind and a retributive spiritual blindness so she can no longer apprehend the truths she has so vehemently spurned. What you are seeing here is God's judgement on an individual life. All very tragic and not an excuse for an 'I told you so' gloating. We should all be awed lest we fall into a similar state. Her example warns that there's nothing so terrible as being given over to the lie and the spirit of strong delusion that's behind it.
David_Fine
Posted: 2012/1/3 21:56  Updated: 2012/1/3 21:56
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
I'm troubled by the high level of self-righteousness in the article and responses.

The anger at P.B. Jefferts Schori is understandable. This article is so far over the top that I even start wanting to defend her.

For example, this quotation:

Jefferts Schori believes that God grabs people by the throat, throws them into a tomb, and jolts them with an electronic stimulator. This sounds like the definition of torture, not the redemptive love of Jesus Christ.

Many Christians have spoken about the way God gets their attention, in the midst of a life of dissipation, and brings them to a new life as a follower of Christ.

Some people may say that God gave a 'wake up call'. Others may say that God grabbed them and shook them. Others may say God rescued them from the grave. Others may say that God shocked them into a new awareness.

Would we say that any of these people were saying that God is violent? Probably not. They are saying that God is effective, persistent, unrelenting, irresistable. Certainly they are not saying that the character of God is violent, gouhlish or electrocuting.

Criticise the {so called} P.B. as deserved, but don't force a meaning on her words that twists what she may possibly have meant.

David
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/3 23:20  Updated: 2012/1/3 23:20
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
And what exactly do you think she could've meant, David_Fine? How would you state it in your own words?

I can't think of a single defensible thing that she's done ever since she took office. Not one. Her term of office has been an unmitigated disaster for the Episcopal Church from Day One to the present.

She has persecuted the faithful and driven them away from the Episcopal Church, deposed faithful orthodox Anglican clergy, made a mockery of Christian marriage, and all in the cause of "inclusiveness," except that this does not include those who disagree with her and who stand in direct opposition to the direction in which she has steered the Episcopal Church.

There isn't one single thing which marks her as a faithful Christian. She is doing the Devil's bidding. Sorry, but that's the truth as we see it, and we know that we're not alone.
Mike_USN
Posted: 2012/1/3 23:33  Updated: 2012/1/3 23:33
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Wow... Cennydd, you're right on the mark. Though I'm not disabled, I am a retired officer, USN. I concur entirely with your assessment of the PB's "leadership" abilities, and I am becoming more and more disturbed by the lack of understanding and true leadership on the part of local and diocesan clergy to recognize what is going on at the national level. (As an aside, I have to say that a teenage priest-ette just does not, and CANNOT, understand what is going on. We have one here.)
God protect us all.
At some other point in this thread, a writer remarked on Schori's decision (I suppose it was) to preside over her own mother's funeral, denying her mother's faith and tradition in the Eastern Orthodox church.
Wow.
I wish I knew more of the circumstances, since it might help me better understand this woman's (the PB) motives, but on the other hand, maybe it's better that I don't.
I am leaving my own church - a parish in ECUSA - and heading East, to the Eastern Orthodox church. I am leaving behind my family, and many friends. This is going to be a hard journey for me in the coming months, but I know that I am only one of many, swimming away from the wreck of ECUSA. Please pray for me, my family, and all of us who are fleeing the wreckage.
In His Holy Name,
Michael
Statmann
Posted: 2012/1/4 0:48  Updated: 2012/1/4 0:48
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Michael: May the Most Holy Trinity be with you. Many years. Axios. Statmann
daveball
Posted: 2012/1/4 16:10  Updated: 2012/1/4 16:10
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Mike,

May God be with you on your journey and thank you for your service to our great nation.

I didn't flee east, only to the ACNA along with my entire diocese. Let's see how that goes.

To me, it isn't the specifics of Schori's comments that are the most troubling but the progression of her increasingly virulent rhetoric. The concepts of hatered of the USA and the military are not unique to her. She appears to be moving toward that group of people who seem to lack understanding of what made this nation great and what the role of Christian morality is in our national identity. She seems headed for an "Occupy" tent (or at least soap box). She long ago clearly stated that she is not a Christian. By his lack of action or involvement, Rowan the Lost said he concurred. This tells me that the England-centric Anglican church exists no more. Specifically where Queen Katie and Rowan the Lost (or his successor) may be leading is unclear but it is surly down the path of doom. The HOB is clearly saying that they either are too afraid to stand up to Schorie or agree with her. In either case, TEC was doomed long ago.

Satan is clearly at work.
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/4 16:46  Updated: 2012/1/4 22:51
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Dave, the House of Bishops clearly agrees with Schori, and there is no chance of their ever taking action against her. I think the same can be said for Bonnie Anderson and the House of Deputies.

As I said earlier, the Episcopal Church is a lost institution, and they are beyond all hope of redemption.

The really sad part of all of this is that the pew sitters who are still part of TEC can be classified into several groupings: Those who have fallen hook, line and sinker for the revisionism, those who remain in hopes of reforming TEC from within, and those who just plain don't care about what happens "so long as it doesn't affect them."

Schori's words and actions just don't seem to bother the so-called "progressive" psychophants who agree with her, and with her, they rule the roost.

What's even worse, they are quick to let you know it. This world can get along quite well without them, and the sooner TEC is gone from us, the better.

Christ and His Church will prevail, and we have His promise on that.
David_Fine
Posted: 2012/1/5 0:36  Updated: 2012/1/5 0:36
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
I agree that she has been a disaster as a Christian (in her mind) leader.
Bhollon
Posted: 2012/1/5 11:08  Updated: 2012/1/5 11:08
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Jefferts Schori is entirely capable of condemning herself without VirtueOnline sinking to the level of tabloid journalism in order to hasten the process. In reading articles like this, the "virtue" in the title of this website seems quite ironic.
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/5 17:25  Updated: 2012/1/5 17:25
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
The virtue of this blog site is that we who post here are free to openly criticize and chastise those who have led the Episcopal Church down the drain, and it's not just David Virtue and his writers who are doing the criticizing and chastising.

It's us, too.

"Tabloid journalism," is it? Well, sure it is, but at least it's a tabloid journalism which exposes the truth....which some people can't stand to hear.
Bhollon
Posted: 2012/1/5 18:04  Updated: 2012/1/5 18:04
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Cennydd, it would seem to me that the truth can't be mixed with so much vitriol and sensationalism. There is not only untruth in this article but a great deal of bad theology on the part of the author - namely, a great deal of confussion about what it means to be properly patriotic vs. politically idolatrous. Truth is truth, and there is surely a truthful and harsh critique to be made of many biships in TEC. But tabloid journalism such as this hurts the orthodox Anglican cause. I am not a former Episcopalian. Indeed, I'm involved in an ACNA church plant and delighted by the idea of an orthodox Anglican Province in America.

But I can assure you that the young people this orthodox Anglican movement hopes to attract are not going to be attracted by this kind of nonsense, and rightfully. They can go to Fox News and MSNBC and get partisan talking heads anytime. I would hope that orthodox Anglicans would offer something more transcendant than this - perhaps the Word of God? This article is embarrassing and damaging to the cause.
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/5 18:33  Updated: 2012/1/5 18:33
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Where are the untruths in this article?
Bhollon
Posted: 2012/1/5 18:48  Updated: 2012/1/5 18:48
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
David Fine's post above pointed to one good example, and there are quite a few places where the author practices what biblical scholars would call eisegesis - reading a meaning into schori's book that is not consistent with the author's intent. This is untruth, and Christians should really be practiced in not only seeing it but also finding it distasteful, even if we don't support the book's author.
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/5 20:31  Updated: 2012/1/5 20:33
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Not being a theologian and therefore no expert in eisigesis, I would prefer that those untruths be revealed for all to see, for I believe that if the truth be told, then it should be the unvarnished truth, for it serves no purpose to deny that truth or to dilute it in any way.

Unfortunately, the author of this book denies the truth, and this also needs to be continually exposed for all to see and hear.
Bhollon
Posted: 2012/1/5 22:03  Updated: 2012/1/5 22:03
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Fair enough. Grace and peace.
DrSteve
Posted: 2012/1/7 1:29  Updated: 2012/1/7 1:29
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
When I read this article by Dr. Ives, as well written and well documented as it is, I see she uses a good deal of proof texting, reinterpretations, generalizations to make her points against PB Schori. To me the article says more about the author's heart than the PB's.

That being said, when I look at the PB's heart, given her body of work as a Christian and leader of TEC so far, I see a woman totally incapable of understanding, of empathy and of any sort charity. I see a wounded woman who is only able to view the world from her own perspective; that of a victim. And, as a victim, she can only act in accordance with and according to that posture. To me, PB Schori's every thought, word and deed are expressions of this.

I see PB Schori has no interest in understanding those who differ from her. I see she has no compassion toward those who are leaving their home churches. I see she has no desire to unite, save, redeem. I see she is completely unwilling to negotiate, compromise, trade. I see she has no ablity to feel for the other person: she appears devoid empathy, to me. And,I see she has no desire to be true to nor even try to live out the message of the Gospels. For that matter, I see she has no consideration even for the dogma and doctrines of her own Episcopal Church

All of these observations (and I could go on) are, to me, the characteristices of a person who is completely in a victim's stance. PB Schori is reacting to the world about her totally from her own wounded perspective; as one who has been wronged, has never recovered and views the universe as a very unfriendly place. Yet, she remains and will continue to be the leader of TEC, with the pulpit to unleash her revenge on entire church and society.

BP Schori's real tragedy is that she has never really believed that Jesus's message can and does heal wounds and and mend broken hearts.

As for Dr. Ives, I believe she is too well educated to have to resort to the tactics she does; proof texting, reinterpretations, generalizing. Had she spoken from the heart, for me her message would have been much more eloquent. There is no doubt in my mind she is sick at heart about what she sees the PB doing to The Episcopal Church; legions are. Stick to that. There is no greater message than personal witness.
Episcodun
Posted: 2012/1/7 3:31  Updated: 2012/1/7 3:31
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Dr. Steve, you're on spot with the victim point. For some reason, Jefferts Schori assumes this victimized posture.

Not a theologian, I am, however, aware of post-modern composition theory which ever focuses on victimization and forever denies redemption. It is all too sad that the marginalized in society are offered false pity, but not the chance for change.

Jefferts Schori's economic philosophy is Marxist; her social philosophy, Hegelian. Who was her professor of religious philosophy at Oregon State?

I haven't read The Heartbeat of God, but I have read A Wing and a Prayer. Thus, I can agree with Dr. Frances: Jefferts Schori is a scriptural revisionist--a shepherd who cannot understand (Is.56.11) and a scribe with a false pen (Jer.8.8).
mmartha
Posted: 2012/1/7 4:45  Updated: 2012/1/7 5:36
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
In our questions and analyzing, we hopefully express a desire to get to the truth in order to be helpful. Theologian Ellen F. Davis speaks to the handling of anger, and I share while knowing there will be a gasp of "But surely not those! the cursing Psalms," which is the title of her third chapter, Getting Involved With God. Some think these Psalms shouldn't be in the Bible or if so, skipped.
Dr. Davis,
p. 26: "In several ways, the cursing psalms give us strong practical guidance in making that offering of anger."
p. 26: "First, they give us words for our anger when we are too stunned by its enormity to find our own."
p. 26: "Second, because these psalms come to us as divinely inspired 'counselors,' we can trust their teaching that vengeful anger is one mode of access to God."
p. 27 "The third and most important direction these psalms offer is that the cry for vengeance invariably takes the form of an appeal for God to act." When we leave it with God, he will handle it the right way. The Psalms are to be prayed responsibly.
So maybe rather than hammering at PBSchori, someone should show her how to hammer at God--a chaplain, a friend, one called to help her. In this text Dr. Davis tells that shouting at God in this way, she was able to also see her own falling short. Her pastoral theology professor, who knew of her anger, had given her a list of psalms and suggested she pray them loudly in a chapel when it wasn't occupied (26). She actually did that. At some point in time, though still angry, she began to see the light.
The Psalms are there to be prayed, they are the living Word. I find it difficult to believe KJS doesn't have a personality of her own somewhere, waiting for empathy, waiting for God.
daveball
Posted: 2012/1/7 11:11  Updated: 2012/1/7 11:11
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Schori is very typical of the liberal victimology mindset. She is a failed academic who apparently saw "clergyhood" as a way of achieving attention and importance. An on-line degree from some California e-university, a fluffed up resume, an invalid "ordination", no practical experience and she was certainly ready to be a bishopess. Circumstances in the rapidly degenerating Episcopal Church made her an ideal surrogate for revisionist powers as PB. From there, growing meglomania and increasing Marxist and heretic worldview and viola, we have the apostate heretic leader of clown masses.

A very large number of real Christian clergy have tried to correct her errant ways only to be deposed and sued.

I think most of us are well over feeling sorry for Shorie. She is making her own way to Judgement Day.
mmartha
Posted: 2012/1/7 13:54  Updated: 2012/1/7 13:59
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Two further quotes from Dr. Ellen Davis and with these we cover other views mentioned above. She is I've found a theologian beyond compare.
First, from "Improving our Aim: Praying the Psalms," Getting Involved With God, p. 12:
"Because the Psalms are prayers, they force us to do more than engage in reasonable speculation about God. Using their words brings us into direct encounter; through them we find ourselves talking to the living God, sometimes in language we would never have imagined would come from our lips into God's ear."
Then p.103, same book, different chapter, "Wise Ignorance: The Book of Proverbs":
"The time comes in every life--and more than once--when we are personally confronted with the power that spread out the heavens like a sequined veil, that formed us out of dust and that blew breath into our lungs, that led Israel through the Red Sea on dry land and left Pharaoh's whole army floating behind. If we can experience that power up close and not be gripped in our guts by the disparity between God and ourselves, then we are in a profound state of spiritual slumber, if not acute mental illness. 'Fear of the Lord' is the deeply sane recognition that we are not God."
daveball
Posted: 2012/1/7 15:58  Updated: 2012/1/7 15:58
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
And this mystic incantation is apropos of what?
mmartha
Posted: 2012/1/7 16:12  Updated: 2012/1/7 16:13
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Im not at all interested in an empty discussion. The thread tells of the hatred KJS may be working out in her own way--angry vengeance. Above I've tried, and maybe not successfully for all, to show a biblical approach to working it out.
Greatly reduced, it says, take your anger to the Lord. Dear angry person, meet the Master. Beyond that, please see Getting Involved with God.
daveball
Posted: 2012/1/7 16:49  Updated: 2012/1/7 16:49
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
Condescension is not an attractive stance. You are certainly entitled to declare a discussion not to your liking and to disagree with comments but please do not assume a supercilious attitude as to what does or does not matter.

I think we can charitably agree that we do not agree on this matter.
ACLins
Posted: 2012/1/8 21:29  Updated: 2012/1/8 21:29
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images for God: The...
God lures. Is that what happened with the Virgin Mary? Only a sick mind would demean the Incarnation by such a suggestion.
jmart
Posted: 2012/1/9 13:53  Updated: 2012/1/9 13:53
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images
This review is not helpful because its rightful concern for Schori's bad theology is seriously undercut by histronics. For example, while Frances says Schori is against the military and insults all sports teams, her supporting quote is as follows:

""Many young people are being raised in a system that says they have value only for the ways in which they can be used--by tricks on the corner or by athletic teams or by the military."

Huh? That is not an insult, that is an arguably true statement. If you doubt it turn on BET, where the message to young black males is that gangsters and jocks are the real men, and the military is a sure bet for a job. Frances needs to do better than that if she is going to accuse the Archbishop of insulting "all" of the military! The statement quoted could easily be construed to mean simply that many people are buying into a purely consumerist model. That is not an insult but a fact.

Besides, God does indeed "woo" and God does "stun." Just because Schori uses an analogy it does not bastardize such word choices automatically. God wooed ISrael, God stunned Paul. Those ideas belong to solid reformed theology, even if Schori means something different. A little more nuance and intelligent dissection, please. Less flinging about like this is a private fight between spouses.

The point is this: we are in a serious conflict and intelligent and reasoned criticism is needed. This review is nothing more than emotive name-calling and shrieking. I expect that from liberals, but not from smart believers. Come on! You may be well-intentioned, but this quality of content helps no one. It may make the author feel better, and her co-belligerents nod in agreement. It will leave all others wanting to defend the attacked, which shlould be the last thing we all want.
"For Jefferts Schori, God does not work through military personnel living on limited salaries and moving their families every two years for the service of the United States. For Jefferts Schori, God does not work through the college student funding an education through a basketball scholarship," Frances wants us to believe. How silly on the face of it. I am certain Schori would not say such. So why go there? On the other hand, I am also certain Schori does not believe in Scripture, in traditional doctrine, or in supporting Republican officials. Make that case, since it is true. Don't make accusations that will be laughed at as impossible to defend.
Cennydd
Posted: 2012/1/10 3:59  Updated: 2012/1/10 13:34
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 Re: PB Jefferts Schori's Violent Images
After everything is said and done, I believe it goes without saying that if Katherine Jefferts Schori IS a victim, then she is a victim of her own making.

But there is more than that here.

She has been used.

She has been used by those within and without TEC who had agendas, and we all know what those agendas were: Women's Ordination, lesbian and gay groups with social issues, the rewriting and reinterpretation of Holy Scripture....and the list goes on.

But most of all, I would include the de-Christianization of the Episcopal Church. And for the most part, they've succeeded in their aims.

To defend her and her words and actions is indefensible. Trying to understand her, however, is not.

I'm not a clinical psychologist, but I believe that I have enough experience to know that, psychologically, there is something very seriously wrong with her character.

Now, having said that, I believe that it is time for us....all of us....to put her and the Church that she leads behind us, and to look ahead to a future without them, while not forsaking those faithful Christians who are still a part of that Church, and those who are striving to reform it against seemingly insurmountable odds.

They need our prayers.
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