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News : ROME: Williams faces pope over Vatican call for converts
Posted by David Virtue on 2009/11/22 22:00:00 (836 reads)

ROME: Williams faces pope over Vatican call for converts
Archbishop protests at Catholic church's shock invitation to Anglicans during visit to Rome

by John Hooper
The Observer
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/nov/22/williams-faces-pope-on-converts
November 22, 2009


The pope and the archbishop of Canterbury at the Vatican. Photograph: AFP/Getty Images

The archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, took the highly unusual step yesterday of protesting personally to the pope about his shock announcement last month of special arrangements for the mass conversion to Catholicism of disillusioned, traditionalist Anglicans.A spokeswoman for Lambeth Palace said after their meeting: "Obviously the archbishop expressed concern at the [decree announcing the special arrangements] and the way it happened. The pope listened in a friendly spirit."

A statement issued by the Vatican described their discussions as "cordial" and, without referring specifically to the pope's initiative, said they had "focused on recent events affecting relations between the Catholic church and the Anglican communion".

But the Church of England's version would indicate that this was the most strained encounter between a pontiff and primate since the two churches initiated direct, high-level contacts in the 1960s.

Their meeting was brief - only 20 minutes. And, in a break with custom, no arrangements were made for a restricted group of correspondents to witness the opening and closing phases of the talks.

A 10-line statement issued afterwards was not, as had been expected, a joint one. Vatican sources were keen to play down the significance of the archbishop's visit. They stressed he had been invited not by the pope but by a Vatican university. One described it as "a private meeting, only slightly more formal than a courtesy visit".

Nevertheless, the statement included an important endorsement of continued talks on unity. It said the primate and Pope Benedict had reiterated their "shared will to continue and to consolidate the ecumenical relationship between Catholics and Anglicans". And it noted that the commission entrusted with preparing a third round of talks between the two churches was due to meet soon.

In an interview with Vatican Radio afterwards, Williams said: "I wanted to express some of the concerns about the way in which the announcement of the [decree] had been handled and received, because clearly many Anglicans, myself included, felt that it put us in an awkward position for a time - not the content so much as some of the messages that were given out. So I needed to share with the pope some of those concerns, and I think those were expressed and heard in a very friendly spirit."

He added that he did not believe there had been a "dawn raid" on the Anglican communion and implied that his concern had been with the Vatican's apparent lack of consultation.

Benedict gave his guest a present that will stir comment among Anglicans, and perhaps raise some hackles. The primate was handed what a Vatican source said was a "very beautiful bishop's cross". A sign of fraternal respect - or something more loaded? That and other questions remained unanswered at the end of a visit that a source close to the arrangements said was fixed by Lambeth Palace six weeks ago, at about the time the archbishop learnt of the pope's initiative.

The biggest unanswered question is how exactly Catholics and Anglicans propose to move towards unity after years of progressive mutual alienation. While the leadership of the Anglican church has embraced women's ordination and, in the US, gay priests, the Vatican under Benedict has become increasingly proud of its conservatism on these and other issues.

In a lecture last Thursday evening at the pontifical Gregorian university, Williams made an impassioned plea for the Catholic side to recognise they had made giant steps towards reconciling their theological positions. All that stood between them were "second order" questions of ecclesiastical organisation, he claimed. But it is hard to believe Benedict's Vatican will see things in that light, any more than traditionalist Anglicans do.

This has been one of the archbishop's most delicate and testing encounters. On Friday he held talks with Vatican officials in which, according to a source in Rome, he repeated his disappointment at the way he had been kept in the dark about the pope's initiative until a late stage.

On Friday, Vincent Nichols, the Catholic archbishop of Westminster, again tried to soothe Anglican sensibilities by stressing that a dislike of women priests was not grounds for conversion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9ChE7PyWnQ

Further reports/comments about Abp of Canterbury’s visit to Rome, and the Apostolic Constitution.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1230086/Catholics-set-task-force-huge-Anglican-exodus.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6633722/What-if-the-Archbishop-of-Canterbury-tried-evangelising-Belle-de-Jour.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6927715.ece


END

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Poster Thread
OnTheRight
Posted: 2009/11/23 14:49  Updated: 2009/11/23 14:49
Quite a regular
Joined: 2008/4/9
From: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 64
 Re: ROME: Williams faces pope over Vatican call for converts
Sometimes, it baffles me how a man like Benedict could listen to the words of a man like Williams without bursting out into hysterical laughter. Maybe that explains why the meeting was only 20 minutes long -- Benedict excused himself from the room so as not to commit the offense of openly laughing in Williams' face.

As for the gift of the bishop's cross, I do suspect it was a sign of "fraternal respect" and affection, nothing more. To suggest otherwise is to assume that Benedict arranged for a rather elaborate display of sarcasm and/or implicit contempt, and Benedict simply does not strike me as the sort of man who would engage in such displays at all, much less to a visiting guest.
rfk1381
Posted: 2009/11/23 15:41  Updated: 2009/11/23 15:44
Just popping in
Joined: 2007/12/29
From:
Posts: 1
 Re: ROME: Williams faces pope over Vatican call for converts
The Andglican communion is in a mess generated by self will run riot. One grows weary of its doubletalk and creeping secularism. The Anglican way in the US is slowly dying, even the ACNA likely may fall to pieces eventually due to its baggage of differences in ecclesiality, orders, sacramental theology, etc. Too bad, since lots of good has happened under Anglican initiative. What can one expect when a church allows voting on core beliefs and theology? But then I remember that the Anglican church itself was formed by an act of personal will run riot (Henry VIII). Quo vadis?

Blessings...Ron
anilwang
Posted: 2009/11/23 16:20  Updated: 2009/11/23 16:46
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2009/10/11
From:
Posts: 71
 Re: ROME: Williams faces pope over Vatican call for converts
Granted the Anglican Communion is a mess right now and the head of the CoE has found backbone in fighting friends (the Vatican) than the cause of the mess (the TEC).

But ACNA is different. It may stand a chance, but it has to actually stand for something. It can't simply be "people who hate the TEC (and possibly the Vatican, and aren't too keen about pure Protestantism either)", since if that's all it is, the ACNA might as well accept membership from the people at richarddawkins.net. It can't be just be tradition for the sake of tradition, since tradition requires the ACNA to stay in the TEC since Anglicans have traditionally kept a broad communion. Anglicans who refused this "tradition" in favour of what they saw as truth, like the TAC, simply stopped being "Anglicans", and broke off to preserve what was valuable.

So what does ACNA stand for? If its union with the Eastern Orthodox Church, it needs to get rid of the Calvinists and supporters of women's ordination - possibly helping them in brotherly love to create another Anglican Province. If it stands for the faith shared with the Global South, it needs to work with them to change the center of the Anglican Communion away from the CoE. If it stands for a uniquely American expression of Anglicanism which combines strong Calvinistic and Anglican values, it must stand on its own and not being afraid to follow the lone path of the TAC and others before them.

These three visions of the ACNA are not compatible, so a decision has to be made firmly and with conviction within the next few years Consultation and soul searching takes time, but if too much time is taken, people get too comfortable with not making a decision. That is, I fear, what happened to the CoE and may happen to ACNA if it doesn't learn from the past.

If it doesn't take a stand, it'll fall as you've stated.
blackshama
Posted: 2009/11/24 3:54  Updated: 2009/11/24 3:54
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2009/7/10
From:
Posts: 77
 Re: ROME: Williams faces pope over Vatican call for converts
My oh my, the official Vatican photo reveals a lot about the two Primates' body language!

Guess who's on the edge of the abyss?!

As for the pectoral cross, maybe the Primate of Italy and the Metropolitan Archbishop of the Roman Province wanted to tell as nicely as possible the Primate of All England that he has an offer to be an ordinary and being the waffle that he is, his sentiments are really Catholic and that the way out of all his troubles is patently obvious.

I would agree. Rowan was extremely Roman at Lourdes.
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