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Exclusives : The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
Posted by David Virtue on 2009/11/6 8:00:00 (5004 reads)

The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith

News Analysis

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
November 5, 2009

Of all the commentary appearing on blogs and in Anglican cyberspace regarding the Pope's recent offer of a safe harbor to traditionalist Anglicans, none has appeared more inane, muddled and downright inaccurate than that of the Rt. Rev. Kirk S. Smith, the Episcopal Bishop of Arizona.

Here is what he said:

SMITH: I've been waiting a few days to make any comment on the recent invitation from Pope Benedict XVI to disgruntled Anglicans to become Roman Catholics.

VOL: First of all, these Anglicans are hardly "disgruntled". What they are wanting is to be faithful to Scripture, tradition and reason at a time when the Episcopal Church is unfaithful to Scripture, has virtually wiped out all tradition, and is being totally unreasonable over property issues.

SMITH: This current invitation is a bit different in that those going to Rome have been promised that they can maintain their Anglican ways (Prayer book, etc) and even have oversight by former Anglican bishops. Still those priests and bishops will be ruled by the Vatican.

VOL: That's precisely why the Pope set it up this way rather than giving them a Personal Prelature as he did Opus Dei. Anglicans would retain their Anglican identity rather than simply being absorbed like the Borg. It is exactly why they wanted their own bishops and at least one group - the Traditional Anglican Communion - has accepted the offer.

SMITH: The reason dissenting Episcopalians left our church is because they don't like control.

VOL: Nonsense. It has nothing to do with control. Episcopalians left to to go to Rome, the AC-NA and countless other Anglican jurisdictions because they no longer believe TEC upholds the faith once for all delivered to the saints. It has nothing to do with control. And speaking of control, there is no bigger control freak than Katharine Jefferts Schori who has assumed papal like powers in deposing bishops and controlling what bishops do over orthodox parishes that want to leave with their properties. She has said she would sooner sell them to saloon keepers than to faithful Anglicans. Who's controlling who here?

SMITH: I doubt many of them would be anxious to trade in their current relative independence for orders from the Chair of St Peter.

VOL: You have just contradicted yourself, Bishop. You just said that conservatives left because they didn't like control? Now you're saying that they will be trading in their "relative independence" to take "orders from the Chair of St. Peter." Which is it Bishop Smith? You can't have it both ways.

SMITH: It might be a different story in England where there is a much more pronounced Anglo-Catholic wing of the Church of England, yet even so, there is wide disagreement among Anglo-Catholics over such issues as the ordination of women, use of the Roman missal instead of the Prayerbook, and the role of gay and lesbian people in the church. As has been pointed out, the Roman Church's position on sexuality is hardly consistent. It does not permit married clergy (except for Anglican converts?) and it does not permit gay clergy (even though until recently pedophilia was secretly tolerated?) There seems to be something missing here.

VOL: Actually that is inaccurate on nearly all counts. Anglo-Catholics are totally united over the rejection of women to the priesthood. You will not find a single Anglo-Catholic who believes in WO. Furthermore, use of the Missal among Anglo-Catholics is very widespread and has been so for a very long time. The Roman Catholic Church's response to sex scandals has been terrible, to say the least, and they have paid a huge price with whole dioceses' declaring bankruptcy and millions paid out to those abused, often decades later. To his credit, this Pope has sent emissaries to the U.S. to clean out the Pink Mafia from its seminaries. This Pope will not tolerate sodomy in the seminaries or in his pulpits. Lastly, the sexual abuse crisis in the Catholic Church in the US and abroad was a matter of homosexuals preying on adolescent boys, not one of pedophilia, as the bishop alleges. It is "more correct," said Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, to speak of ephebophilia, a homosexual attraction to adolescent males, than pedophilia, in relation to the scandals. "Of all priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90 per cent belong to this sexual orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between the ages of 11 and 17," said Tomasi. His statement is backed up by a report commissioned by US bishops that found that in the overwhelming majority of cases the clergy involved were homosexuals, with 81 percent of victims being adolescent males. The Arizona bishop's charge of pedophilia against Catholic priests is dead wrong.

Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church is picking up the pieces of a church (TEC) that publicly ordained a non-celibate homosexual to the episcopacy, because those fleeing believe their immortal souls might be at stake if they stayed or had any business with him. Can you blame them? Being a celibate bishop might not be something Smith wants for himself, but who can justify a twice divorced, three times married bishop like Barry Beisner. Smith needs to reflect on that little Biblical passage about who is without (sexual) sin casting the first stone. TEC has as much sexual sin to go around as The Roman Catholic Church.

SMITH: What I think is missing is any clear Gospel proclamation on the part of the Pope.

VOL: Say what? If TEC's bishops had a clear fix on the gospel, it would not be rapidly going downhill with every diocese being in numerical decline. It was Mrs. Jefferts Schori who ripped the need for personal salvation at GC2009. Most bishops believe in the weird, made-up "doctrine" of inclusion that denies repentance and faith, just a "come as you are, stay as you are", feel good church. The Anglican Church in North America was born precisely because The Episcopal Church has lost sight of what the gospel is.

SMITH: Of course, he (the Pope) wants to increase the rapidly dwindling ranks of his own church. What leader would not want to do that?

VOL: Say what? The Roman Catholic Church has a billion souls, give or take a million or two. Like their Anglican counterparts, they are growing by the millions in the Global South nations of sub-Sahara Africa. Admittedly, millions are pray, pay and obey Catholics who can be seen at church two or three times a year. They are Catholics nonetheless with as much of a church attendance track record as nominal Episcopalians who claim just over 2 million adherents but have an Average Sunday Attendance of about 700,000. By comparison you could fit most of TEC in a large SUV. Worldwide Anglicans are a mere 55 million not the vaunted 80 million that Lambeth proclaims. One has to take out the 25 million members of the Church of England who darken the doors at baptism and later fill cemetery plots. If it wasn't for the Global South Anglicanism would be a dying cult. Catholicism, for all its errors and omissions, continues to draw thinking people.

SMITH: Is the building up of a church on the basis of hatred consistent with Jesus' message? Is the idea "If you hate gay people and women, then come join us" one Benedict really wants to support? Or is this gesture likely to become, as I suspect, a tremendous embarrassment to present and future generations of Roman Catholics? Jesus Christ's message about love and acceptance of all seems to have been somehow overlooked by the Holy Father.

VOL: A billion people would not be going to a church that preached "hatred". The RCC has consistently (as have evangelicals) declared that HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR is morally reprehensible and unacceptable in men, women, priests, bishops or anyone else. That is not homophobia. It is the belief that the church views marriage between a man and a woman as the only acceptable avenue for sexual behavior regardless of who breaks that commandment. The RCC has consistently said "love the sinner, hate the sin" as most of Christendom does. The Pope is not the slightest bit "embarrassed" by his stand and there is not a shred of evidence that the RCC is in decline because of his stance. Many non-Catholics view the Pope as a bulwark against post-modernism at a time when Islamic insurgency and Western decadence are polarizing the West.

SMITH: Lastly, such an invitation is simply not working. In every congregation I visit, the number of people I receive from the Roman Church is almost as great as those new Episcopalians I confirm. During my visitation last week I received six people. That in just one week. In my entire five years as bishop, I know of only two people who have left the Episcopal Church to become Roman Catholics. The migration is clearly in our direction.

VOL: Not only is this a narrow, provincial view of matters, the real reason Smith is seeing Catholics becoming Episcopalians has everything to do with divorce and remarriage and little else. It has nothing to do with Anglican doctrine. The Roman Catholic Church does not recognize divorce. Remarriage is only permitted and recognized if an annulment has taken place. The plea of Louie Crew to gay Catholics to join the Episcopal Church has fallen on deaf ears. There has been no wholesale departure of gay Catholics to the Episcopal Church or the Metropolitan Community Church for that matter. Gay Catholics are staying put or not going anywhere. Not even the advent of Gene Robinson has seen a massive flight of pansexual Catholics to New Hampshire or any other Episcopal diocese.

The kind of vapid pseudo spirituality Smith is promoting would be laughed at by any prelate in Rome or the Orthodox Church Patriarch for that matter. With the doctrine of inclusion nullifying and eliminating the need for the Cross or the Atonement, why should anyone believe in Smith's "gospel", a Unitarian church might have as much or more to offer. Smith needs to face the fact that he and the Pope have two very different religions and at the end of the day, more Anglican pilgrims will debark at Rome's door than Catholics embarking for Canterbury.

END

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Poster Thread
larsil
Posted: 2009/11/6 14:17  Updated: 2009/11/6 14:17
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/23
From: near Pittsburgh
Posts: 202
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
I'm surprised that Bp. Smith allowed this interview to be printed. This isn't an interview; it's an argument.

---L.
railbirdbc
Posted: 2009/11/6 15:02  Updated: 2009/11/6 15:02
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/6/6
From:
Posts: 767
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
Oh brother! What planet did Smith arrive from? These guys just get dumber and dumber.
ctowles
Posted: 2009/11/6 15:33  Updated: 2009/11/6 15:33
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/12/4
From:
Posts: 498
 larsil
I don't think one gets to choose once the interview has been completed. One could extrapolate from the interview that the Bishop didn't know any better. God gives each of us different blessings.
charliepd
Posted: 2009/11/6 15:44  Updated: 2009/11/6 15:44
Just popping in
Joined: 2009/2/26
From: London UK
Posts: 3
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
Are they packing the pews then in Arizona?
[ for info! NEARLY 10 per cent of the population of
England and Wales identify themselves as
Catholic, according to a poll to be presented
to the Bishops’ Conference of England and
Wales next month.]
frweber
Posted: 2009/11/6 18:00  Updated: 2009/11/6 18:00
Just popping in
Joined: 2008/9/26
From:
Posts: 11
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
It's not an interview. It's the text of a blog post by +Smith interleaved with comments by VOL.

And goodness, is he an idiot.
kb9gzg
Posted: 2009/11/6 18:01  Updated: 2009/11/6 18:01
Just popping in
Joined: 2005/2/26
From: Wisconsin
Posts: 11
 Re: larsil
While I think that this "bishop" hasn't a clue, we need to understand that this is a "News Analysis" rather than an interview.
DPJ071
Posted: 2009/11/7 0:49  Updated: 2009/11/7 0:49
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2009/7/21
From:
Posts: 105
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
Smith is your typical left wing progressive liberal who believes that by simply disagreeing with a certain lifestyle then you are a bigot or in this case "hate gays". What a sad example apostolic succession.
Collin
Posted: 2009/11/7 12:27  Updated: 2009/11/7 12:27
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/6/30
From: Malaysia
Posts: 15
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
I am not one who is quick to defend the Catholic or Orthodox churches, but VOL has got it right on so many counts and while this is not Catholic, this is by far the best defence of the Church that I've seen.

Anyway, there is always the Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate to look at if people need other options.
Cennydd
Posted: 2009/11/7 13:44  Updated: 2009/11/7 13:44
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6862
 Re: larsil
I think that what we have here is one very inept bishop.

Cennydd
Hkepfer
Posted: 2009/11/7 17:10  Updated: 2009/11/7 17:12
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2004/11/30
From: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 31
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
Thank you Mr. Virtue, you speaks with clarity and take-on a true, lower case, understanding Catholicism.

Maybe in an article for some future; you might want to write an article, that further explains your view of the difference between lower & upper case Catholicism.
Do think all who profess / read the Nicene Creed do so with the same understanding?

G-D Bless +
bcwright
Posted: 2009/11/8 6:36  Updated: 2009/11/8 6:55
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/4
From:
Posts: 528
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
The Catholic Church in Arizona has roughly 1,000,000 adherents; the Episcopal Church roughly 25,000. Given those numbers, it's hardly surprising that he's observed more Catholics becoming Episcopalians than vice-versa. But what's more important would be the overall percentage changes, and it's clear that the Diocese of Arizona has been declining steadily.

This is something to boast about?!

I might add that I've read plenty of things from the current Pope that would fit the description of a "clear Gospel proclamation." It's not like it's hard to find his writings; he's extremely prolific. But I don't recall seeing very much lately from any TEc bishops that would fit that description, with the exception of those who have left for other jurisdictions. Most especially not from Ms. Schori, who clearly appears to be out of her depth.
patulous
Posted: 2009/11/8 19:04  Updated: 2009/11/8 19:04
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/5/18
From:
Posts: 1778
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
The dumber is, as dumber does.
Cyrus
Posted: 2009/11/9 1:08  Updated: 2009/11/9 1:08
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2008/12/4
From: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 25
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
Presumably because of reasons of space Smith's consecration took place in a Catholic Church willing to extend its hospitality. It seems he is only too willing to accept their hospitality but then feels free to illogically and inaccurately "sink the boot in" as we say in Australia
RevRL
Posted: 2009/11/9 17:03  Updated: 2009/11/9 17:03
Quite a regular
Joined: 2007/8/26
From:
Posts: 49
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
My word, his GRE scores must have been dismal.
Engus
Posted: 2009/12/20 23:58  Updated: 2009/12/21 0:02
Quite a regular
Joined: 2009/12/6
From:
Posts: 48
 Re: The Muddled Mind of Arizona Episcopal Bishop Kirk Smith
This 'Bishop' is a clear example of what passes for spiritual intelligence in today's Episcopal Church.

He is either a retard who can't recall what he said in an earlier statement or he's deliberately avoiding the facts and making it up as he goes along.
Check that. I'm sure it's both.....

He brags about 'gaining 5, losing 2' communicants as if he's talking about a Little League ballgame, yet completely avoids the statistical fact that the EPUSA has lost more than 3% of it's adherents in the past couple years alone.

If it weren't so sad, It would be a laughing matter.
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