Anglicans Swimming The Tiber : Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope's Offer of Ecclesiastical Refuge
Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope's Offer of Ecclesiastical refuge
by John Hepworth
20th October 2009 
I have spent this evening speaking to bishops, priests and lay people of the Traditional Anglican Communion in England, Africa, Australia, India, Canada, the United States and South America.
We are profoundly moved by the generosity of the Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI. He offers in this Apostolic Constitution the means for "former Anglicans to enter into the fullness of communion with the Catholic Church". He hopes that we can "find in this canonical structure the opportunity to preserve those Anglican traditions precious to us and consistent with the Catholic faith". He then warmly states "we are happy that these men and women bring with them their particular contributions to our common life of faith".
May I firstly state that this is an act of great goodness on the part of the Holy Father. He has dedicated his pontificate to the cause of unity. It more than matches the dreams we dared to include in our petition of two years ago. It more than matches our prayers. In those two years, we have become very conscious of the prayers of our friends in the Catholic Church. Perhaps their prayers dared to ask even more than ours.
While we await the full text of the Apostolic Constitution, we are also moved by the pastoral nature of the Notes issued today by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. My fellow bishops have indeed signed the Catechism of the Catholic Church and made a statement about the ministry of the Bishop of Rome, reflecting the words of Pope John Paul II in his letter "Ut Unum Sint".
Other Anglican groups have indicated to the Holy See a similar desire and a similar acceptance of Catholic faith. As Cardinal Levada has indicated, this response to Anglican petitions is to be of a global character. It will now be for these groups to forge a close cooperation, even where they transcend the existing boundaries of the Anglican Communion.
Fortunately, the Statement issued by the Archbishop of Canterbury reflects the understanding that we have gained from him that he does not stand in our way, and understands the decisions that we have reached. Both his reaction and our petition are fruits of a century of prayer for Christian unity, a cause that many times must have seemed forlorn. We now express our gratitude to Archbishop Williams, and have regularly assured him of our prayers. The See of Augustine remains a focus of our pilgrim way, as it was in ages of faith in the past.
I have made a commitment to the Traditional Anglican Communion that the response of the Holy See will be taken to each of our National Synods. They have already endorsed our pathway. Now the Holy See challenges us to seek in the specific structures that are now available the "full, visible unity, especially Eucharistic communion", for which we have long prayed and about which we have long dreamed. That process will begin at once.
In the Anglican Office of Morning Prayer, the great Hymn of Thanksgiving, the Te Deum, is part of the daily Order. It is with heartfelt thanks to Almighty God, the Lord and Source of all peace and unity, that the hymn is on our lips today. This is a moment of grace, perhaps even a moment of history, not because the past is undone, but because the past is transformed.
----Archbishop John Hepworth is Primate of the Traditional Anglican Communion
*****
Anglican Church in America responds to Vatican Overture
October 20, 2009
The House of Bishops of the Anglican Church in America joins our Primate, Archbishop John Hepworth, in welcoming with deep joy the announcement of the preparation of an Apostolic Constitution to provide for full, visible communion between orthodox Anglicans and the Holy See.
The House of Bishops wishes to express its appreciation to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for its painstaking work with respect to appropriate ecclesial structures to enable this historic step towards unity in Christ in accordance with Our Lord's high priestly prayer.
We pledge our most serious, prayerful reflection upon the Constitution when promulgated, as well as our wholehearted cooperation and fervent prayers in working to bring about this landmark and long-desired outcome.
The House of Bishops
Anglican Church in America
Traditional Anglican Communion
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| Poster | Thread |
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| PB1928 | Posted: 2009/10/20 16:18 Updated: 2009/10/20 16:18 |
Just popping in   Joined: 2007/7/4 From: Posts: 20 |
 Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'...We have been told that TAC was seeking "unity without absorption". This is clearly absorption, as indicated by the term "former Anglicans".
PB1928 |
| olarmy02 | Posted: 2009/10/20 16:41 Updated: 2009/10/20 16:41 |
Just popping in Joined: 2009/6/18 From: San Antonio, TX Posts: 18 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... I do not think it is absorption as much as adhesion since there will be a separate group comprised of "former Anglicans", that is they are not in communion with ABC but with the Pope, allowed to keep many traditions (not sure how they will quantify it), and allowed to have married clergy. Sounds quite similar to the Eastern Catholic Churches.
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| anilwang | Posted: 2009/10/20 17:04 Updated: 2009/10/20 17:04 |
Not too shy to talk  Joined: 2009/10/11 From: Posts: 29 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... Until the new Apostolic Constitution is announced, it would be hard to know how the changes are different from the Anglican Use provisions.
But if the Roman Catholic church is smart, they'd use it as a testbed for a possible future common communion with the Eastern Orthodox. Since the TAC is so small, if they do this, they may have a low risk way of assessing how far they're willing to move towards the Eastern Orthodox to heal the primary schism that might have made the Protestant Reformation unnecessary if it was first handled correctly. |
| PB1928 | Posted: 2009/10/20 18:09 Updated: 2009/10/20 18:09 |
Just popping in Joined: 2007/7/4 From: Posts: 20 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... Call it what you will. It is absorption. It allows all those, whose differences with the Roman church are primarily liturgical, instead of theological, to join Rome. The theological differences were already put to the side, at least in the case of TAC, when the TAC bishops accepted the RC Catechism. The only serious remaining question is whether the wording on Papal Infallibility can be swallowed by TAC.
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| floppy2 | Posted: 2009/10/20 21:39 Updated: 2009/10/20 21:39 |
Just popping in Joined: 2006/1/12 From: Posts: 6 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... ....on issues of faith and morals ONLY! The pope is still a person and not a perfect one by any means. He is not instantly "perfect" once the white smoke rises and he comes out on the balcony to wave!!
The Holy Ghost is a guard against lapses in faith (what the Church believes) and morals (how that faith is practiced in the lives of Catholics) These are the issues missing in the current Anglican church and is what people are looking for. A standard bearer of what is good, bad, right and wrong. A sure guide for the bad days to come. |
| Alabamian | Posted: 2009/10/21 0:48 Updated: 2009/10/21 0:48 |
Quite a regular  Joined: 2009/9/8 From: Posts: 49 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... "generosity" "great goodness." Are you kidding? The pope is out to absorb Anglicans into the Roman church and you are bowing and scraping about it. He is trying his best to bring about the end of the Anglican Communion, OUR Anglican Communion. I do not know how "Traditional" your group is but it is the tradition of the Anglican Communion to recognize the Archbishop of Canterbury as our spiritual leader, not the pope.
I can hardly believe my eyes at all the Anglican leaders going ga-ga today over some attention from the pope. Wake up. He is saying we are second class citizens whose only hope is to submit to Rome. Leaders, it is time for you to stand up for our Anglican Communion. |
| huscarl | Posted: 2009/10/21 14:44 Updated: 2009/10/21 14:44 |
Just popping in Joined: 2008/7/6 From: Posts: 10 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... The bishop of Rome is NOT the "holy father" and the Roman church is NOT the "holy see". Biblically and historically the Roman church is NOT the "mother church". Anglicans need to wake up and discover the Holy Scriptures along with a good dose of church history.
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| FrWells | Posted: 2009/10/22 15:20 Updated: 2009/10/22 15:20 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2009/9/20 From: Posts: 25 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... It surely sounds more like absorption than just unity. Any Anglicans who wish to become ex-Anglicans will face two realities right away:
(1) They will be required to admit that their orders are invalid and any sacraments requiring a priest or bishop have been totally null and void. Their clergy will have to be ordained from scratch, as if they were only laymen. (2) Any TAC/ACA parishes which happen to own any real estate will be required to sign a deed for that property to the local RC diocese. Any takers? Yes, it sounds more like absorption all the time. |
| dannyiseli | Posted: 2009/10/22 16:32 Updated: 2009/10/22 16:32 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2006/6/18 From: new jersey Posts: 30 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... All who want to go should go--like refugees stripped of their former status (null and void). They obviously have never considered Gal.5:1:" It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again BY A YOKE OF SLAVERY." These Anglican stragglers have never considered themselves Protestant in the least and are more concerned for their identity on the basis of TRADITION rather than SCRIPTURE. May they be Magisterially happy!!!!
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| Paul61 | Posted: 2009/10/22 17:07 Updated: 2009/10/22 17:07 |
Just popping in Joined: 2009/10/22 From: Posts: 7 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... I don't understand--or sympathize with--the testy tone of so many posts on this site. It makes me feel very sad to see Benedict's generous and charitable offer meet with such responses.
For one thing, a lot of people seem to be forgetting that Benedict is responding to an Anglican initiative, not attempting some sort of unwelcome "absorption." TAC and a couple of traditional dioceses in England asked what they needed to do to be allowed full communion. Benedict responded to their request, and did so with astonishing generosity and even daring. He is risking much criticism, and initiating a very delicate process within the Catholic Church, with this offer. For another: if one truly believes that the Catholic Church is the Body of Christ (as TAC does, and as, after much resistance, I have been forced to conclude myself), then why would one NOT wish to be absorbed into Christ? Or are we too busy creating our own power bases, and living in our own small disconnected worlds--I am afraid I have to add "non-viable worlds"--to take risks and make sacrifices in order to comply with John 17? Even if I agreed with the objections that have been raised in some of the posts above, I would still feel compelled to ask whether the some of the people posting here have considered the demands of Christian charity, on the one hand, or the sheer rudeness of meeting such unprecedented generosity with ungrateful sniping, on the other. Shouldn't we be representing ourselves with a bit more courtesy and charity? I must also point out that since the Apostolic Constitution hasn't been published yet, a lot of what has been said here and elsewhere on blogs is speculation. We don't know the details of how this will be worked out, yet. If there's something in the Note that says TAC parishes have to sign away their property, I completely missed it. And it appears that traditional Anglican clergy will be provisionally ordained, which precisely does NOT mean that they must admit that their orders were invalid and their sacraments null and void--only that Rome takes care to be certain that its priests are ordained in the way it has traditionally thought they should. A provisional ordination is a safety net, not an insult. Until the Constitution is published, then, I think courtesy for the offer, and gratitude for this opportunity to overcome the wounds of the Reformation, would be more appropriate than mean-spiritedness and recklessly unfounded statements. If anyone wants a bit more insight into how this pope thinks about things, including ecumenism, I highly recommend reading Peter Seewald's _Salt of the Earth_ and _God and the World_, interviews with then-Cardinal Ratzinger. Those books explain a great deal about what Benedict has in mind, and they provide a very enlightening context for the current offer. In the meantime, is it too much to ask for a bit more charity and forbearance in our responses to this unprecedented generosity? |
| frweber | Posted: 2009/10/22 17:51 Updated: 2009/10/22 17:51 |
Just popping in Joined: 2008/9/26 From: Posts: 10 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... The TAC has sought exactly this provision for several years now. It doesn't affect you in the slightest. Your freedom to remain in communion with those who "ordain" women and practicing buggers will not be impaired in the slightest.
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| bcwright | Posted: 2009/10/22 18:24 Updated: 2009/10/22 18:28 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2005/7/4 From: Posts: 520 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... In the meantime, is it too much to ask for a bit more charity and forbearance in our responses to this unprecedented generosity?
I have to say that I agree. When I was still an Anglican and starting my readings in the Fathers, I became very interested in the Roman Catholic Church, and was aware of the TAC's hopes of reunion with her. At the time this would have been a very attractive offer - and it's not as if this offer is forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do. As Fr Weber says, this is a response to a specific request from certain Anglo-Catholic groups. If you don't want to join them, then fine, and Godspeed! However my journey eventually took me farther East - but I would hardly condemn those whose path leads them to Rome rather than Constantinople, or indeed into the Continuum or some other haven. |
| Paul61 | Posted: 2009/10/22 18:42 Updated: 2009/10/22 18:42 |
Just popping in Joined: 2009/10/22 From: Posts: 7 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... I am afraid I don't really understand your most recent post, FrWeber, and I'm not sure whether it was aimed at me or not.
If it is a reply to my post above it, let me just say that I have no interest in being in communion with people who ordain women (I even agree with your quotation marks around "ordain") or practicing homosexuals. I am not, and I never will be. I am, however, very interested in being part of the "one fold" that John 10:16 talks about. |
| FrWells | Posted: 2009/10/22 18:46 Updated: 2009/10/22 18:46 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2009/9/20 From: Posts: 25 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... As I survey this offer from Benedict 16, "generosity" is not exactly the word which comes to mind. He kindly offers us the oppportunity to admit that our sacramental ministies are "utterly null and absolutely void," and that we have never really received the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist. In exchange for this small concession on our part, we get the opportunity to sign over title to the real estate we sacrificed to buy. If this is "generous," I pray never to meet "predatory."
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| Paul61 | Posted: 2009/10/22 18:53 Updated: 2009/10/22 18:53 |
Just popping in Joined: 2009/10/22 From: Posts: 7 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... Thank you, bcwright. :)
While we're on the subject of things we might hope for: I wonder if it's too much to hope that Rome might make a similarly generous offer to any Orthodox who might also want to rejoin the fold.... Christians need all the unity we can get to face the secularist beast that threatens us more lethally every day. I for one would love to see not only Anglicans like myself, but also the Orthodox, united with Catholics in defense of our faith against secularism (and against Islam too, for that matter, if we're going to talk about threats to Christianity). As John Paul II said, the Church would breathe with both lungs again, then. What a beautiful--and powerful--thing that would be. In the meantime, let me repeat my plea for charity--not the sort of faux-charity that tolerates heresy and sin, of which we've had all too much, but the real, tough charity of I Corinthians 13. |
| Paul61 | Posted: 2009/10/22 18:56 Updated: 2009/10/22 18:56 |
Just popping in Joined: 2009/10/22 From: Posts: 7 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... Fr Wells, aren't you confusing Leo XIII and Benedict XVI? Where in the Note from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith does it say Anglican Catholics have to make those statements?
Again, provisional ordination does not mean you have to disavow your previous ministry. It is not helpful to keep repeating something that is not true. Do you argue that my plea for real charity here is unjustified? |
| Zonaras | Posted: 2009/10/22 19:22 Updated: 2009/10/22 19:53 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/30 From: Posts: 212 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... anllwang, Please, don't wish future communion with those of us in the EOC on Rome's terms! In many of our eyes, much of their belief is heretical They have filioque wrong. If their view of the Trinity is off base, by default the rest of their belief structure is too. I for one will gladly see Rome brought to heel and received back into the EOC on OUR terms as long as the RCC admits all its errors since 1054!
 BCwright, Benny XVI needs to make that trip east also. At the very least papal primacy must be condemned and consigned to the dust been of history!!!!!!! |
| anilwang | Posted: 2009/10/22 19:32 Updated: 2009/10/22 19:32 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2009/10/11 From: Posts: 29 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... @FrWells,
I'm not a theologian, but given the reasoning given by the Donatist Controversy, I don't see how the Vatican can declare Anglican sacraments by these priests invalid. Yes, Anglicans would still be apostate and their priesthood would be invalid (albeit according to apostolic succession), but the sacraments given to anyone who repents and rejoins Rome should still be valid even if given by invalid priests. Would someone with more theological training than myself chime in? |
| bcwright | Posted: 2009/10/22 19:36 Updated: 2009/10/22 19:49 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/4 From: Posts: 520 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... I wonder if it's too much to hope that Rome might make a similarly generous offer to any Orthodox who might also want to rejoin the fold....
Paul61, There are already the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches for any Orthodox who might be so inclined - and if anything, that's even more "generous" than what has been offered to the Anglicans. But there aren't a whole lot of the Orthodox who seem to be interested in going that route. |
| bcwright | Posted: 2009/10/22 19:41 Updated: 2009/10/22 19:47 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/4 From: Posts: 520 |
 Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'...BCwright, Benny XVI needs to make that trip east also. At the very least papal primacy must me condemned and consigned to the dust been of history!
Zonaras, I'd tend to agree (though I think most Orthodox would be happy to grant the Bishop of Rome a "First among equals" status as was the case in the early Church). But issuing blanket condemnations of what seekers in good conscience believe they have been led to do is way above my pay grade. |
| Zonaras | Posted: 2009/10/22 19:49 Updated: 2009/10/22 19:49 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/9/30 From: Posts: 212 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... BC Wright, go read the comments posted by those on the Byzantine Catholic blog on this issue:
http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/335597/1 |
| ejsteele | Posted: 2009/10/22 19:57 Updated: 2009/10/22 19:57 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/10/18 From: Posts: 347 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... Paul61,
Thank you for your thoughts and words. While I tried to say much the same thing on other threads, you have done a much better job here. Ed |
| bcwright | Posted: 2009/10/22 20:10 Updated: 2009/10/22 20:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/7/4 From: Posts: 520 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... BC Wright, go read the comments posted by those on the Byzantine Catholic blog on this issue:
Zonaras, I'm not sure what your point is. The blog sounds pretty much like what I'd expect from those in one of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church. The fact is that this offer does not erect anything remotely resembling an Eastern Rite sui juris Church for Anglicans. I'd have to say that the Eastern Catholic Rites are a more generous offer than what's being offered to the Anglicans - but as I said, not too many Orthodox take them up on it. Most of the Orthodox believe that many of the Roman teachings are heresies, so why should they be attracted to it? |
| esniii | Posted: 2009/10/22 20:14 Updated: 2009/10/22 20:14 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/3/29 From: Posts: 385 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... For those who are dismayed at TAC's approach to Rome, and who call the TAC to recognize the historic leadership of Canterbury, please remember that the Anglican Communion has largely rebuffed the TAC and other continuers.
It's very hard to admit fellowship with and leadership by someone who doesn't respect your higher principles, and won't invite you in to tea- much less communion! |
| FrWells | Posted: 2009/10/22 20:46 Updated: 2009/10/22 20:49 |
Not too shy to talk Joined: 2009/9/20 From: Posts: 25 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... No, Paul61, I'm not confusing anybody. I am simply pointing out that Leo XIII's "Apostolicae Curae" of 1896 is still in effect. The alleged invalidity of Anglican Orders is still their official position and was affirmed by Cardinal Ratzinger himself back when he was JP II's chief theologian. For an Anglican to swim the Tiber, an acceptance of that position (which seriously dishonors the work of the Holy Ghost among us) is a non-negotiable requirement. "Roma semper eadem!"
And with your plea for "charity," may I ask if you are confusing charity with sentimentality? I'm all for charity, as long as it based on facts. |
| Paul61 | Posted: 2009/10/22 21:55 Updated: 2009/10/22 21:55 |
Just popping in Joined: 2009/10/22 From: Posts: 7 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... FrWells: No, I'm not confusing sentimentality with charity.
As I said, I'm not interested in "the sort of faux-charity that tolerates heresy and sin, of which we've had all too much, but the real, tough charity of I Corinthians 13." May I ask, in return, if it is possible that you are confusing a sturdy defense of orthodoxy (which is surely something for which you are to be commended heartily--would that more people did it), with "odium theologicum" (which is both un-Christian and also deeply foolish in the face of the modern world's savage hostility)? These are unusual, and unusually dangerous, times. I'm compelled to argue, as forcefully as I can, that it's time to let old hatreds go, work through our differences if we can (notice I didn't say "ignore our differences"!), and try to face our common enemies in the solidarity Christ prescribed for us. I should know. I come from a family of Northern Irish Protestants, and have family members who were killed and injured by the IRA. If I can push past hatred to understanding, anybody should be able to. Believe me, I'm not unsympathetic to the difficulties involved. But the need seems very pressing to me. Zonaras: The Orthodox have in fact historically recognized the "primacy" of the see of Peter. They just haven't agreed with Catholics about what "primacy" means. Orthodox and Catholic theologians have been working on the issue recently, and have made substantial progress towards agreement. See for instance here: http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=54768 and here: http://www.zenit.org/article-21041?l=english The statement of the joint Catholic-Orthodox Commission is here: http://www.zenit.org/article-21012?l=english Resolution, no. Progress, yes, and some of it surprisingly heartening. For the reaction of a Bulgarian Orthodox bishop to the latest developments with Anglicans, see this: http://www.zenit.org/article-27299?l=english For the view of the Russian Orthodox Archbishop of Vienna, the marvellously-talented Hilarion Alfeyev, on the need for Catholic-Orthodox unity, see this: http://www.zenit.org/article-26927?l=english There is someone who understands who the true enemy is...and isn't. |
| Paul61 | Posted: 2009/10/22 21:58 Updated: 2009/10/22 21:58 |
Just popping in Joined: 2009/10/22 From: Posts: 7 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... ejsteele/Ed: You're welcome, and thank you for jumping in. Feel free to borrow anything I've said, for use elsewhere, if you find it useful. :)
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| ACLins | Posted: 2009/10/23 16:26 Updated: 2009/10/23 16:26 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/3/31 From: Kentucky Posts: 234 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... Before you incorrectly assume that this is absorption, read Dr. Tracey Rowland's recent book on Pope Benedict to understand how this great man thinks about organic expressions of the catholic faith. It is an eye-opener!
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| myrnajo | Posted: 2009/10/24 2:45 Updated: 2009/10/24 2:45 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2009/4/28 From: Posts: 44 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... And just WHO made us second class citizens ? Our own Presiding Bishop and the Archbishop of Canterbury -with their poor leadership (or total lack of leadership ) ! If Rowan had stepped in and told Kate enough already - no more homosexual bishops or same sex marriages and meant it we wouldn't need to pay attention to Rome's offer. All he needs to do is accept the ACNA and that would stop the flow out of the AC. I,for one, am giving Rome some serious thought. We need an answer from Rowan NOW !
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| CH-Discern | Posted: 2009/10/25 1:24 Updated: 2009/10/25 1:24 |
Just can't stay away   Joined: 2009/10/10 From: Posts: 110 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... Let the flow go out(or in) as it must. Go where your conscience leads you.
Thank you, Paul61 and bcwright for expressing your balanced Christian views. However much one might disagree with RCC doctrine and ways, the Pope’s offer IS generous to those who want to be more closely tied to Rome (without giving up all of their Anglican ways). If it allows them to become Roman Catholics, Anglican type, then why is it a problem for true Anglicans? No damage will be done to us. Let us be about mission to the unchurched. I must say that the Pope's offer is meaningless to me, who am not in the least tempted to cross the Tiber, even if they provided a luxury yacht to get there. What is amazing is that anyone would take offense at the offer. I need people to explain to me why they take it so personally. Even if you regard the Pope as the devil in disguise, those who are so moved to cross the Tiber will only be helping separate the goats from our midst. On the other hand, if the RCC is simply one (erring) branch of the universal Church with many true believers within it, then why not bless those who are finding where they truly belong? I believe the latter is the case— and that we should be understanding and charitable. Show me a church with perfect doctrine and perfect priests and perfect members, and I will cross whatever rivers I must in order to get to it. But I see none. I am content with being a part of a conservative Anglican church that believes in the authority of scripture, uses a form of English liturgy in community worship, accepts the 39 Articles, and values (acts on) the Great Commission. And has great fellowhip! That is about as close to perfect as I am likely to find. Besides, who am I (unfinished product) to demand perfection, anyway. |
| huscarl | Posted: 2009/10/27 14:59 Updated: 2009/10/27 14:59 |
Just popping in Joined: 2008/7/6 From: Posts: 10 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... The problem is that Rome is an apostate church. They do err "not knowing the power of God nor the Scriptures". Why would anyone want to return to the dregs of Romanism in place of the glorious freedom of the gospel of King Jesus?
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| frweber | Posted: 2009/10/31 1:36 Updated: 2009/10/31 1:36 |
Just popping in Joined: 2008/9/26 From: Posts: 10 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... Paul61 : I'm sorry for the confusion. My response was intended for Alabamian, who unaccountably seems to think that the Anglican Communion still has something to do with Christianity. It wasn't aimed at you at all!
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| Paul61 | Posted: 2009/11/7 23:40 Updated: 2009/11/7 23:40 |
Just popping in Joined: 2009/10/22 From: Posts: 7 |
Re: Traditional Anglican Communion Responds to Pope'... No problem, Fr Weber. I have to agree with you--the Anglican Communion no longer has much to do with Christianity, at least not as its leadership goes. I wish it weren't so. Anglican Christianity is--or at least can be, and has been--a thing of great beauty and great antiquity.
Fortunately, Benedict XVI has now made provisions that just may allow it to survive, and to be in compliance with Christ's directions for his church. What a triumph over tyrannical liberals who want to crush out orthodoxy and "re-imagine" the Church, on the one hand, and short-sighted traditionalists who seem able only to think of their own power and self-will, on the other...! Now _that's_ a "via media" to praise. I have a picture of Benedict on my study wall; underneath is John 10: 16: "Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." What a wonderful promise, and how wonderful to live in a time when some of that promise is coming true...! For my part, I'd like to work for the day when it is entirely true. |
