Los Angeles Episcopal Bishop Offers Apology to Hindus over Conversion Attempts
By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
Sept. 29, 2009
The ultra liberal Episcopal Bishop of Los Angeles J. Jon Bruno offered a formal apology to Hindus for centuries-old acts of religious discrimination including attempts by Christians to convert them.
He then authorized a joint Hindu-Anglican service at St John's Cathedral in Los Angeles permitting Hindu devotees to receive the consecrated elements.
According to a statement read on his behalf by suffragan Bishop Chester Talton, he vowed not to proselytize non-Christians. "I believe that the world cannot afford for us to repeat the errors of our past, in which we sought to dominate rather than to serve, in this spirit, and in order to take another step in building trust between our two great religious traditions, I offer a sincere apology to the Hindu religious community," said the bishop's statement reported by the Los Angeles Times.
A Hare Krishna provided music along with the St John's cathedral choirs. When the Eucharist was celebrated Hindus were invited to receive the consecrated elements. Some Hindus who abstain from alcohol received only the host, the Los Angeles Times reported.
An icon was venerated at the Communion service. While a Hindu band sang a hymn the Anglican celebrant anointed the icon with sandalwood paste, draped a garland of flowers over the icon and lit a lamp, "as a sign of Christ, the light in the darkness."
Hindu nun Pravrajika Saradeshaprana, dressed in a saffron robe, blew into a conch shell three times, calling to worship Hindu and Episcopal religious leaders who joined Saturday to celebrate an Indian Rite Mass at St. John's Cathedral near downtown.
The rare joint service included chants from the Temple Bhajan Band of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness and a moving rendition of "Bless the Lord, O My Soul" sung by the St. John's choir.
"This was a once-in-a-lifetime experience in worship service," said Bob Bland, a member of St. Patrick's Episcopal Church of Thousand Oaks, who was among the 260 attendees. "There was something so holy -- so much symbolism and so many opportunities for meditation."
"I believe that the world cannot afford for us to repeat the errors of our past, in which we sought to dominate rather than to serve," Bruno said in a statement read by the Rt. Rev. Chester Talton at the service. "In this spirit, and in order to take another step in building trust between our two great religious traditions, I offer a sincere apology to the Hindu religious community."
The bishop also said he was committed to renouncing "proselytizing" of Hindus. Bruno had been scheduled to read the statement himself, but a death of a close family friend prevented him from attending the service.
Swami Sarvadevananda, of Vedanta Society of Southern California, was among about a dozen Hindu leaders honored during the service. He called Bruno's stance "a great and courageous step" that binds the two communities.
"By declaring that there will be no more proselytizing, the bishop has opened a new door of understanding," Sarvadevananda said. "The modern religious man must expand his understanding and love of religions and their practices."
All were invited to Holy Communion, after the Episcopal celebrant elevated a tray of consecrated Indian bread, and deacons raised wine-filled chalices.
In respect to Hindu tradition, a tray of flowers was also presented. Christians and Hindus lined up for communion, but since Orthodox Hindus shun alcohol, they consumed only the bread.
During the service, the two faiths also blended practices during the handling of an icon of Jesus.
The Rev. Karen MacQueen, an associate priest at St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Pomona, who was the celebrant, carried the icon, a large painted image, during the procession. She placed it before the altar.
The Diocese of Los Angeles' ecumenical and interfaith officer called the service unprecedented for the Episcopal Church. American canon law forbids the distribution of the consecrated elements to the un-baptized, but no sanctions have been levied on those bishops and clergy who regularly violate these rules.
The diocese reported the Eucharist was celebrated according to the liturgy of the Church of South India and the "tradition of Bede Griffiths". It also incorporated an "Arati, the Service of Light, and Kirtan, congregational chanting of the Holy Names."
At the foundation’s sixth annual Capitol Hill banquet on September 23 the Hindu American Foundation honored two Los Angeles area priests with its 2009 Mahatma Gandhi Award for the Advancement of Religious Pluralism.
Suhag Shukla, managing director of the Hindu American Foundation (HAF), an advocacy group devoted to religious diversity, said: "Our shared message could not be clearer -- pluralism and human rights are universal concerns. Looking back on five years of bringing a loud and clear voice to our nation's leaders, we are optimistic that Hindu Americans across our nation see this foundation as a key stakeholder and an institution that reflects their own coming of age."
Bishop Bruno's views reflect those of Episcopal Presiding Bishop Jefferts Schori who has repeatedly said that one should would never attempt to convert Muslims. She has publicly argued that individual or personal (Christian) salvation is a "Western heresy" and "work".
Former Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold argued vigorously for what he called pluriform theology and designated pluralism as the lynchpin of his Affirming Catholicism.
---ENS and the L.A. Times contributed to this story.
| Poster | Thread |
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| morrismpls | Posted: 2009/9/30 10:18 Updated: 2009/9/30 10:18 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/1/4 From: Posts: 496 |
You can add "proven liar" to "ultra-liberal" in his shameful "SSBs don't take place in my diocese" after the NOLA meeting with the ABC.
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| RevDarrenS | Posted: 2009/9/30 11:00 Updated: 2009/9/30 11:00 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/9/24 From: Georgia, USA Posts: 213 |
So what he has said is he will no longer fulfill the "Great Commission" given to us by our Lord... Makes sense given his professed views. His apology kind of rings hollow though because he cannot hope to speak for all Christians in this case as he has not the authority to speak for all Christians.
If the Episcopal Church wishes to share communion with non-believers then that is their choice... but don't pretend to be a Christian church anymore. It is confusing to those who earnestly seek a closer relationship with Christ. This "new-age-feel good-all is well theology" is at odds with genuine Christian teaching and should not be confused with sound biblical doctrine. |
| Reepicheep | Posted: 2009/9/30 12:06 Updated: 2009/9/30 12:06 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/8/31 From: Posts: 32 |
What is next? A joint service with the Rastafarians in which he partakes of the Rastafarian's sacraments?
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| olarmy02 | Posted: 2009/9/30 12:25 Updated: 2009/9/30 12:25 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2009/6/18 From: San Antonio, TX Posts: 18 |
Liberals amaze me. We don't want to offend anyone with the Gospel of Christ so we will join in a pagan polytheistic worship service? One would think that all the liberal malarky about "justice issues" would preclude syncretism with a religion based on the inequality of the caste system.
Somebody needs to proclaim the Gospel to this faux-Bishop. Just because someone wears a Dallas Cowboys jersey doesn't mean they can, should, or do play for the Cowboys - just sayin! |
| railbirdbc | Posted: 2009/9/30 13:48 Updated: 2009/9/30 13:48 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/6/6 From: Posts: 767 |
Calling Elijah! Calling the prophet Elijah! Come in, Elijah. There's a major apostasy happening in the state of California that requires your immediate response. Proceed to Los Angeles without delay and engage! Please reply ASAP! OVER.
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| Causidicus | Posted: 2009/9/30 13:56 Updated: 2009/9/30 17:01 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/7/3 From: Posts: 1095 |
Syncretism.
Polytheism. Open communion openly practiced. Abandonment of the great commission. Denial of the unique saving power of Christ. Pluriform theology. Ignoring basic canon law. The evidence is in. TEC LA isn't remotely Christian. It has the form without the substance. The perfect trojan horse. Wouldn't want to be bruno on judgment day... Pretty sad what he did to his hindu guests as well: 1 Corinthians 11 27-32 |
| hughmc5 | Posted: 2009/9/30 15:50 Updated: 2009/9/30 15:53 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2009/6/11 From: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 29 |
I'm sure the Hindus are duly impressed.
Who died and made Bruno pope?! www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArEKZZho4Ao&feature=related How can he apologize for something he's never done: evangelize? He has no evangel. Those who arrogate to themselves the authority to apologize or beg forgiveness for other's deeds are merely audacious asses. |
| aspire1983 | Posted: 2009/9/30 17:30 Updated: 2009/9/30 17:30 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/10/12 From: FORMERLY Diocese of Virginia / Now CANA Posts: 421 |
Bruno - - LA's version of Chuckles Bennison. Apologizing for evangelistic efforts? Well, what else is new. It's TEc, folks... just a bunch of granola (i.e. nuts, fruits, and flakes) dressed up in churchy garb pretending like they are even remotely relevant to Christ OR the world.
To borrow a term from the theatre: It's Ecclesia of the Absurd! |
| tarlen | Posted: 2009/9/30 17:42 Updated: 2009/9/30 17:42 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2009/7/27 From: Posts: 2 |
There are no words for how great a distortion of Christianity this is. However, with Kat still the head of TEC, I fear this sort of thing will get more and more common.
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| bcwright | Posted: 2009/9/30 18:14 Updated: 2009/9/30 18:14 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/7/4 From: Posts: 528 |
A Eucharist was celebrated and the Hindus were invited to receive the consecrated elements. Some Hindus who abstain from alcohol received only the host, the Los Angeles Times reported.
I am speechless. |
| larsil | Posted: 2009/9/30 18:52 Updated: 2009/9/30 18:52 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/23 From: near Pittsburgh Posts: 202 |
This Bishop apologized for evangelistic efforts?
It makes me remember a part of the Gospel: "If you are ashamed of Me before men..." I may apologize for high-handed tactics, and for putting my foot in my mouth, but I will NEVER apologize for sharing my Lord with others. May God have mercy on me -- and Bp. Bruno. ---L. |
| Socrates | Posted: 2009/9/30 20:51 Updated: 2009/9/30 20:51 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/9 From: Posts: 45 |
Pathetic High Church Unitarians.
Dilute your wine with sufficient water and what you get is ---- water. |
| bhmildy | Posted: 2009/9/30 23:16 Updated: 2009/9/30 23:16 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/2/27 From: Posts: 12 |
Monotheism doesn't seem very inclusive. I suppose Bruno is just living into the tension of monotheism and polytheism at the same time.
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| Cennydd | Posted: 2009/10/1 1:04 Updated: 2009/10/1 20:34 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Ummm, I seem to remember the command to "Go ye into all the world....teaching and baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."
It would seem that Bishop Bruno has conveniently forgotten the Great Commandment, hasn't he? Step aside, Bishop BRUNO, and let a Christian take your place, because you've failed miserably! Cennydd |
| dannyiseli | Posted: 2009/10/1 2:49 Updated: 2009/10/1 2:49 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/18 From: new jersey Posts: 38 |
Blasphemy, betrayal and heresy!! Anathema to Bruno's diocese and to the rest of the like-minded TEC whose complicity in this kind of syncretism will earn it a paragraph in the history books of Christian heresies. Other denominations better consider and take heed!!
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| OnTheRight | Posted: 2009/10/1 4:50 Updated: 2009/10/1 4:50 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/4/9 From: Tampa, Florida Posts: 64 |
A post earlier in the thread described Bruno and his followers as "High Church Unitarians" and after chewing on that for a while, I think it really is about the most precisely accurate theological label for such people I have yet seen.
As for the "joint Hindu-Anglican service", and specifically the joint-Hindu-Anglican "Eucharist" held as a part of it... words fail. |
| Sodslaw | Posted: 2009/10/1 5:07 Updated: 2009/10/1 5:07 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/8/3 From: Orthodox Bunker Posts: 343 |
Amen Cennydd!
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| DPJ071 | Posted: 2009/10/1 12:02 Updated: 2009/10/1 12:02 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2009/7/21 From: Posts: 105 |
This isn't surprising considering the apologies coming like clockwork from Obama, Pelosi & Clinton. I wouldn't be surprised if TEC begins removing crosses from churches so as not to offend anyone who might be visiting who isn't Christian. TEC seems to be moving in the direction of being the denomination which welcomes all those who don't know which way they are going, don't really believe in the Trinity, the place to go for those who don't know if they are male or female and for those who don't know believe that God created the heavens and the earth. TEC sticks its finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing that day and goes from there, and then sticks its middle finger in the air at the majority of the Anglican Communion and wonders why they are loosing ASA numbers each year if not each month.
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| Reepicheep | Posted: 2009/10/1 12:49 Updated: 2009/10/1 12:49 |
Not too shy to talk ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/8/31 From: Posts: 32 |
On the one hand they charge priests and bishops with abandonment of communion for aligning with the Southern Cone, and on the other they give communion to people who do not even claim to be christians. Do they even see the problem with this?
Perhaps they have already partaken of the Rastafarian sacraments and that is where they got the idea in the first place. |
| ethiang | Posted: 2009/10/1 19:45 Updated: 2009/10/1 19:45 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2009/9/18 From: Posts: 16 |
"When the Eucharist was celebrated Hindus were invited to receive the consecrated elements."
Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us! |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2009/10/1 20:37 Updated: 2009/10/1 20:58 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6862 |
Sodslaw, take another look! I was horrified when I saw my mistake (a result of jet lag), and I corrected my very obvious GOOF: I meant to say "Bishop BRUNO," and I changed it. My sincere apologies to my faithful bishop.
Lest anyone doubts my committment to my bishop and my diocese, you may put those doubts to rest permanently. And Bishop Bruno: I meant every single word of what I said! Cennydd |
| jfmckenna | Posted: 2009/10/2 1:09 Updated: 2009/10/2 1:09 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/2/4 From: Posts: 584 |
This is certainly a relief. I thought I might have to go out and endure some inconvenience and maybe even ridicule or persecution for my faith. But now I realize that all I have to do is be nice and order up another vanilla latte.
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| RevRL | Posted: 2009/10/2 20:31 Updated: 2009/10/2 20:31 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2007/8/26 From: Posts: 49 |
"This was a once-in-a-lifetime experience in worship service..."
Um, yeah...one can only hope. |
| Aneirin | Posted: 2009/10/3 2:07 Updated: 2009/10/3 2:07 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/12/30 From: Southern California Posts: 164 |
Time to read II Peter and Jude as a reminder of the fate of this evil bishop.
And time to recommit to witnessing to all who will hear (including Hindu people) the saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. |
| thanksbe | Posted: 2009/10/3 16:34 Updated: 2009/10/3 16:34 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2009/10/3 From: Posts: 1 |
I agree, this is insane. What happened to the Great Commission, Bruno?
Question, though: the original story was posted in the LA Times in January 08. Why post it now? (Beyond the fact that it didn't get much attention and should have!) Original LA Times article |
| jfmckenna | Posted: 2009/10/3 16:48 Updated: 2009/10/3 16:53 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/2/4 From: Posts: 584 |
Bruno is a CAT-astrophe.
.../\___/\ ..( >' o '< ) ....(,,) (,,) |
| rpearse | Posted: 2009/10/3 18:14 Updated: 2009/10/3 18:14 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/4/24 From: Posts: 50 |
Rather appropriate, really. The problem of caste in India means that the Indian priests -- high caste Brahmins -- tend to feel that they own the lower caste Hindus, and that conversion deprives them of their property. Isn't that precisely how Bishop Bruno feels about his dwindling flock? Carrion-birds respecting each others' feeding grounds? Corrupt clergy of different groups agreeing together to flay their own flocks is not really that edifying a sight, is it?
Then there is the apology. As far as I know, Bishop Bruno has never converted Hindus himself. And I don't quite know how someone can honestly apologise for something someone else did! This is a trick used sometimes by the political left, to seem pious. But in fact his "apology" is really merely an insult directed at Christians. Perhaps we should play along. Given that he has apologised, we should ask him to pay compensation. He has, after all, accepted responsibility; let's take him at his word. |
| PilgrimRob | Posted: 2009/10/4 17:35 Updated: 2009/10/4 17:35 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2009/7/10 From: California Posts: 6 |
"the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops" - St John Chrysostom
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| dturk | Posted: 2009/10/5 13:13 Updated: 2009/10/5 13:13 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2004/5/26 From: Posts: 416 |
He should be demanding an apology from Hindus who have been offering rewards for killing Christians.
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| Liberty | Posted: 2009/10/6 1:19 Updated: 2009/10/6 1:19 |
Just can't stay away ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/3/6 From: Posts: 105 |
Bruno wishes to apologize to Sinners for trying to convert them in the past. His church is reasonably full of Sinners with no success at conversion.
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| aterry | Posted: 2009/10/6 16:54 Updated: 2009/10/6 16:54 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/6/19 From: Virginia Posts: 54 |
bald-faced, uncut folderol...
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| stuckinTO | Posted: 2009/10/6 20:34 Updated: 2009/10/6 20:34 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2009/5/30 From: Toronto Posts: 12 |
From the looks of His picture this poor man would be a huge success as a used car salesman. better that than a Prince of the church.
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| bhmildy | Posted: 2009/10/7 20:40 Updated: 2009/10/7 20:40 |
Just popping in ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/2/27 From: Posts: 12 |
Bruno should apologize: anyone that converted from Hinduism to Episcopalianism really bought a pig in a poke. He should also apologize for converting a christian church into a polytheistic dog's dinner of pop psyche and puerile social justice activism. But then what's his apology worth?
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| LGMarshall | Posted: 2009/10/8 20:28 Updated: 2009/10/8 20:28 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/11/25 From: Encinitas, California Posts: 66 |
Logically speaking -- Bruno believes that ... in OT times, as the Jews worshipped G*d in the Tent of Tents the pagans were invited into the service with their many idols , & the sacred offerings placed on the altar for atonement by the Jews were mixed with various items from the pagan sacrifices [human sacrifice was not unkown] . Looks like they are all just one big happy family! [sadly, neither group realizes they are both hypocrites . Because, having 'All Beliefs' means having 'No Beliefs'.]
I'm praying that since Bruno didn't attend this ceremonial farce, he may have had some time to reflect , repent of his wrong teachings, and come to a true Faith in Jesus Christ. It's not too late to repent, and help others turn back to Jesus. |
| jfmckenna | Posted: 2009/10/9 23:40 Updated: 2009/10/9 23:40 |
Home away from home ![]() ![]() Joined: 2006/2/4 From: Posts: 584 |
The god of the Hindus is only a unity beyond the seeming multiplicity of things, and the immortality of the Hindus is compared by them to the raindrop falling into the sea (obviously not an immortality worth hoping for). Is Bruno willing to take responsibility for those souls who will now not seek salvation because of his words?
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| helpmelord | Posted: 2009/10/14 23:25 Updated: 2009/10/14 23:25 |
Quite a regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 2008/2/5 From: Posts: 66 |
If you believe individual salvation is a heresy, and that orthodox Christianity puts God in a box, then of course you are going to apologise to people of other religions.
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