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Exclusives : GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do Now?
Posted by David Virtue on 2009/7/22 19:00:00 (6402 reads)

GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do Now?

News Analysis

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
7/23/2009

The House of Bishops of the Church of England meets in September when they will consider the new North American Anglican province's (ACNA's) Constitution and Canons. Following Durham Bishop Tom Wright's scathing critique of what transpired at GC2009 there is every likelihood they will support ACNA. A number of Evangelical and Catholic bishops are already doing so - eight have signed the Private Member's Motion - unprecedented in General Synod history.

This puts Dr. Rowan Williams in a very difficult position. At one level he can now offer a two-tier solution to the Anglican Communion's malaise. He can also argue that he can now recognize both TEC and ACNA. He alone decides who to invite to the Lambeth Conference, and can circumvent the Anglican Communion Office and Canon Kenneth Kearon who has sworn eternal fealty to TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada and would never recognize ACNA if his job depended on it. (He needs TEC money to keep ACC afloat).

The General Synod is not in any way beholden to the ACC and can do as it likes. It could even, if it chose, reduce its financial contribution to ACC and ACO. If the Synod debates and passes the motion next February or next July, Kearon can think or say what he likes, it will not affect anything. The determination of who is or is not in communion with the CofE is a joint decision for the two Archbishops of Canterbury and York, who would find it difficult to refuse a Synod resolution. If ACNA is in then TEC may even be shown the door.

The truth is the ACC has become irrelevant following Jamaica and the debacle over Resolution 4. The vast majority of the CofE do not know what the ACC is, let alone cares. Churchgoers do not elect their ACC "representatives" they are chosen by the national church. Therefore ACC approval is something of an irrelevance. From now on one can expect that province by province will make its own decision. If the great bulk of the Communion declares itself to be in communion with ACNA, the ACC will have to fall in line.

At a deeper level, if ACNA is approved of by the Church of England, then it is not only extreme embarrassment for The Episcopal Church, but also evidence before American courts that TEC is no longer the exclusive holder of the Anglican badge.

The implications for the Dennis Canon are enormous. TEC now bills itself as a hierarchical church. It will have to live and die by that ecclesiastical sword. For those watching from the sidelines, nobody can seriously have expected the 2009 General Convention to hold back from overturning B033, the fig leaf of respectability behind which TEC has been sheltering since 2006, and in Anaheim it finally crossed the Rubicon.

TEC committed itself finally and irrevocably to LGBT "rights" (to all orders of ministry and same-sex blessings) ahead of any other consideration, including the express views of the Anglican Communion at the 1998 Lambeth Conference, and more recently the Windsor Report.

A last-minute plea from Archbishop Rowan Williams at the TEC Convention fell on deaf ears. TEC is already in a state of impaired communion with 22 out of the 38 provinces of the Anglican Communion. Its internal divisions over property have cost it hundreds of parishes and four dioceses, not to mention millions of dollars in legal fees.

Historically only the Archbishop of Canterbury, who invites the bishops to Lambeth Conferences, has the authority to determine who is in or out of communion, but the recent actions of TEC have forced several large provinces to take such a decision for themselves, thus diminishing the authority of the Archbishop of Canterbury.

A large proportion of the Anglican Communion already out of communion with TEC, will soon declare an end to all relationships with it. This may well be re-echoed by The Russian Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. We shall see.

VOL has begun to outline the growing attrition as a result of Anaheim, as remaining conservatives finally recognize the seriousness of the condition into which their church has been plunged by radical activists, who now have unassailable control of the denomination.

Even the most ardent of orthodox stayers now must ask how long they can endure TEC's leadership which has now taken possession of General Convention and the House of Bishops especially after Presiding Bishop Jefferts Schori condemned personal faith in Christ as a Western heresy.

Any lingering doubts in the minds of the Global South that TEC is an apostate and heretical institution were swept aside in Anaheim this past week. GAFCON's Jerusalem Declaration http://tinyurl.com/ntzsfk is more prescient now than ever. When VOL inquired as to why we had heard nothing from archbishops like Akinola and Orombi the answer was simple, "look at the Jerusalem Declaration, what is there left to say?"

The newly installed ACNA Archbishop Robert Duncan did opine in an open letter to the Anglican Communion saying, "For Anglican Christians, for the Instruments of Unity (Communion), for interdependent Provinces, for ordinary believers, there is a choice to be made. The choice is between two religions, two roads, two cities, two sets of conflicting values and behaviors." http://tinyurl.com/nq947w

Indeed.

GAFCON was set against the Lambeth Conference and Williams knew it. It was the elephant in the tent at Canterbury. He could not ignore 70% - 80% of the Communion.

But the divisions go still deeper. The onslaught against orthodox Anglicans in the USA and Canada has been of such concern to other provinces that U.S. and Canadian Anglicans have consecrated bishops to offer a place of refuge for orthodox Anglicans and to reach the U.S.'s 130 million unchurched Americans - the goal of the AMiA.

This would not have been necessary if TEC had truly allowed flying bishops with real authority.

Real estate seizures (based on the Dennis Canon), depositions of TEC's orthodox bishops and priests, along with the morphing of the presiding bishop from chairman of the HOB into a full -blown medieval prelate, have created a church founded not on the word of God, but legal fundamentalism, determined to purge itself of all opposition.

Of course it could be argued that had the Archbishop of Canterbury exercised his personal authority as head of the Communion, even though he has no formal legal status, things might have been different. But he didn't and wouldn't. He demurred and deferred holding out the carrot of compromise rather than the stick of expulsion from the communion.

At the end of the day he was not willing to alienate TEC. Even as late as the 2008 Lambeth Conference the invitations to TEC bishops could have been withdrawn, sending the clearest signal that TEC must change direction.

He didn't and wouldn't. The inaction of Rowan Williams has been monumental. Even as the turmoil in the Communion grew he prevaricated and dodged the hard answers he should have given. He lost a golden opportunity in New Orleans and at another historical moment following Dar es Salaam when he was armed with a resolution to hold TEC accountable.

The result is that provinces have determined for themselves who is or is not in communion with them. The GAFCON primates, as they have been dubbed, and who hold the bulk of Anglicans in their bosom are the genuine holders of the Anglican keys.

It is difficult to see how the Archbishop or his office can ever recover the authority it once held. He has alienated his authority and has no one to blame but himself.

A meeting of the Anglican primates at Lambeth Palace preceded the consecration of homogenital bishop Gene Robinson in 2003. At that time Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold was a signatory of a letter urging TEC not to proceed. He nevertheless returned to the U.S. and personally presided at the service, telling everyone that it was not his decision, but that of the church and that he could do nothing about it. He made a mockery of both the statement and Williams himself.

Williams took it lying down.

A wave of protests followed in the U.S. sparking yet more litigation amid dissenters and growing concern elsewhere in the Anglican Communion for the orthodoxy of TEC and for the pastoral care of conservatives within it.

Little was said and nothing was done by Lambeth Palace.

At each subsequent Primates' meeting when orthodox archbishops urged Williams to act, he did nothing, using the language of "I have no power." Worse, Williams continued to protect TEC by doing as little as possible to respond to the concerns of the primates. The primates' meeting was also finally downgraded by Williams who prevented it from meeting as it had done previously.

The 2008 Lambeth Conference saw TEC bring a large contingent of bishops (even though it has only ASA 700,000 Episcopalians) accompanied by numerous activists including the uninvited Gene Robinson and a transsexual priest from the Diocese of Massachusetts.

Williams had to come up with a strategy to hold it all together. He called it "indaba" a process of candid conversation that resolved nothing. It is now being promoted around the Communion as a means of doing business. Indaba has now transmogrified into ubuntu - "I in you and you in me" but this has neither united nor provided the healing balm the Communion wounds.

Williams "Affirming Catholicism", supported by the then Scottish primus, former bishop Richard Holloway, as well as a gaggle of English sympathizers and TEC's Frank Griswold has been the ABC's vision for the future of the Anglican Communion. It has flat out failed. The attempt has produced nothing but despair, lamentation and alienation for orthodox Anglicans.

The growing acceptance of women priests in many provinces has further alienated Anglo-Catholics from mainstream Anglicanism. A number of evangelicals believe that making women's ordination mandatory rather than voluntary in TEC and now the CofE has further alienated and angered broad-minded Anglicans. ACNA is demonstrating that both views can live side by side in harmony. The actions of the TEC making women's ordination mandatory virtually guaranteed that they would walk away, and three dioceses have recently done so.

Nonetheless, homosexuality, a salvation issue, remains the lightning rod problem driving evangelical Anglicans out of TEC. A theology of morality impacting Christology and denies the authority of scripture is a bridge too far. Revisionists have liberalized and relativized clear biblical prohibitions at great cost to themselves and before a watching world.

While the scriptural evidence for excluding women from holy orders contains a number of possible ambiguities: no such ambiguity exists with respect to homosexuality, as Pittsburgh Professor Robert Gagnon has so thoroughly demonstrated.

The recent actions by TEC in Anaheim and Jefferts Schori's statements about salvation only vindicate the formation of a new Anglican province in North America. ACNA has garnered the support of the largest Anglican provinces in the communion further alienating Williams who gave TEC his tacit support in Anaheim. Furthermore 40 million Evangelical Anglicans in the Global South found Schori's remarks shallow and theologically offensive.

What is happening is that Williams and the Anglican Consultative Council are simply being bypassed by orthodox Anglicans. GAFCON, ACNA and FCA are simply ignoring the ABC and ACC by going around them to form their own more perfect union and grow the church. Meanwhile, Western pan-Anglicanism slowly withers and dies. Williams' pleas for restraint in Anaheim were blown off like so much Disneyland hype.

On his return to England, for the meeting of the General Synod in York, he was in constant communication with TEC leaders, who delivered the bad news as it happened.

It was reported that on the final day of the Synod he was reduced to feebly hoping that the bishops of TEC would hold the line, despite the overwhelming vote in the House of Deputies. It never happened. On the final day of GC2009 the House of Deputies voted 2 to 1 to pass Resolution C056 allowing rites for same sex unions to be official dogma, even though the Presiding Bishop wrote (not once but twice) that the actions of GC2009 were descriptive not proscriptive. No one with half a brain believes that for a moment.

At the same time, members of the CofE General Synod were flocking to sign a private member's motion calling for the Church of England to be in communion with ACNA; and asking hard questions about the Church of England's relationship with the Church of Sweden, which is about to authorize same gender marriages by its clergy. The biggest bombshell, however, was the announcement by Tom Wright, Bishop of Durham that the ACNA Canons and Constitution have already been laid before the English House of Bishops to be debated in September.

Williams might have hoped for a quieter life following the retirement of conservative bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, to whom he bade a somewhat ungenerous farewell at the end of the Synod, but worse was to come: the endorsement of gay ordinations and of rites for same-gender unions by the TEC House of Bishops produced in short order a ringing denunciation in the Times newspaper by the Bishop of Durham and a matching statement by his liberal evangelical Fulcrum organization, which has hitherto sat carefully on the fence on such issues.

So far there has been silence from Lambeth Palace, presumably a stunned silence. Wright is not only the chief author of the Windsor Report, and a proponent of the ill-fated Covenant which was supposed to draw the Communion back together, but is a leading voice among liberal evangelicals in England. They are large in number and influential in the councils of the Church, and have hitherto been strongly critical of their more conservative counterparts who have supported GAFCON, FCA and ACNA. Williams now faces the prospect of the whole evangelical wing united in condemnation of the Affirming Catholic agenda which he has sought to promote for the last fifteen years."

Williams has nowhere else to look for support. Half of the Anglo-Catholic movement, to which he once belonged, left the Church of England over women priests in 1993. Affirming Catholics enjoyed a period of dominance having supplanted conservative Catholics, and for a while almost every new bishop appointed wore the badge. But once women priests were a fact of life much of the raison d'ętre of Affirming Catholicism was dissipated, and the movement has lost momentum, so much so that its Scottish branch recently closed for lack of support.

What is most troubling for Williams is that English ordination candidates these days are firmly Evangelical. Congregations and dioceses are asking for Evangelical bishops, and many have been appointed, with every indication that this will be the trend for the foreseeable future. There are 25 evangelical bishops in the HoB and that number seems only to be growing. Conservative Catholics, and much of the mainstream, have disappeared from the ordination process.

Williams' friends in the HoB are steadily retiring, leaving him increasingly isolated in a church which respects his academic credentials, but is less certain of his agenda, and left wondering about his leadership in a time of such crisis.

Williams is being seen more and more as a brilliant fool. Nobody any longer believes in the strategies which have been proposed to resolve the North American crisis. The Instruments of Unity, the Panel of Reference, the Pastoral Visitors, the ACC, the ACO, the Windsor Report, the Covenant, Indaba and Ubuntu are all dead in the water. They have not even delayed, let alone arrested the momentum of TEC towards the edge of the cliff.

The time has come for Williams himself to choose. Will he heed at last the calls of the global south for an Anglicanism which is faithful to scripture? Will he act against the remaining liberal voices in the Church of England who aim to see TEC replicated in the mother church? Will he recognize ACNA as a province in communion with him? Will he work with the new Evangelical bishops in his own provinces who have already concluded that the old order is at an end and that the Anglican Communion must be a Communion of churches in doctrinal, not structural agreement with one another? Will he heed the calls to withdraw recognition of ministers ordained in TEC and instead to recognize ACNA?

His options grow fewer by the day. If he stays silent in Lambeth Palace he will be seen as acquiescing to the left. If he believes the letters put out by Jefferts Schori to himself and to the wider Anglican Communion that nothing really changed at GC2009 he is deluding himself. No one in the Global South is buying the snake oil Jefferts Schori is selling. The scandals, lawsuits and the hemorrhaging of members from TEC will not suddenly cease because of the actions of GC2009.

Will he devise yet more convoluted stratagems designed to pretend that the discussion continues, knowing in his heart of hearts that his master plan for Anglicanism is now in ruins?

It is a lonely position for Williams to occupy. For Williams, his own time came and is now gone. There is no retrieving it. His Affirming Catholicism has failed as it was bound to from the very beginning, for it failed to take into account the great majority of the Anglican Communion which remains committed to the authority, not of archbishops, or lawyers, or General Conventions, but of something infinitely greater: Holy Scripture.

END

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Poster Thread
FrankV
Posted: 2009/7/23 16:15  Updated: 2009/7/23 16:19
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/5
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 302
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
In view of past performance, I give it less than an even chance that Rowan Williams will do the correct thing which is recognizing communion with ACNA and, at a minimum, chastisement or hopefully expulsion of the non-Chrisstian TEC.
If his intransigence turns out to be the case, the "Anglican" communion should be reconstructed under a totally new leadership of orthodox believers. Then, let the CofE apply for communion with that entity. Put the shoe on the other foot for a change. Who needs the Druid in the overall scheme of things? I'm certainly not counting on the reformation of TEC like certain other websites seem to fantasize. I even wonder about the reformation of the CofE.
Presbyman
Posted: 2009/7/23 16:48  Updated: 2009/7/23 16:48
Just popping in
Joined: 2007/2/20
From: Pennsylvania
Posts: 9
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
The Archbishop seems like a very nice man who is hopelessly out of his depth. His specialty ... a typical one of moderately liberal Protestants such as himself ... is to always try to compromise and split the difference. That has become impossible in the Anglican Communion. It is also impossible in Protestant churches in general. The differences are too great to be solved by compromise and commissions and delays. I think the Archbishop will be paralyzed by indecision, afraid to offend anyone, but in the process pleasing no one. The Anglican Communion as we have known it will be no more. And I don't mean to single out the Anglican Communion ... my own church (Presbyterian(USA)) is flying apart, despite the pathetic calls for unity and compromise from the fast dwindling establishment.

John Erthein
Erie, PA
otispage2
Posted: 2009/7/23 17:04  Updated: 2009/7/23 19:50
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/3/14
From:
Posts: 615
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
"it could be argued that had the Archbishop of Canterbury exercised his personal authority as head of the Communion, even though he has no formal legal status, things might have been different. But he didn't and wouldn't"

ABC has failed! The only humane resolution recognizing his failure is political, given that the Queen wishes to preserve the Communion.

Following the precedent of Henry VIII, the Queen should arrest ABC, send him to the Tower, and immediately dispatch him to the Royal Executioner where judgment would be served.

If this treatment is judged to be too harsh, the Queen could insist as a minimum that Williams retire. She then must appoint one who is resolute in inspiring a restoration of the “faith once given” in the Communion.

David Virtue would be an excellent candidate for the Queen’s consideration. God save the Queen, England and the Anglican Communion!
hunter
Posted: 2009/7/23 17:49  Updated: 2009/7/23 17:49
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2007/4/29
From:
Posts: 124
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
A very important article.
This piece needs to be shared far and wide.
Thank you, David.
DJ1943
Posted: 2009/7/23 17:58  Updated: 2009/7/23 17:58
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/11/30
From: Ohio
Posts: 240
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Hopefully he'll do the right thing, otherwise his legacy and place in the history books will be none to flattering.
LocoOwl
Posted: 2009/7/23 18:11  Updated: 2009/7/23 18:11
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2004/1/13
From: South Carolina
Posts: 100
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
My guess is that ++Rowan will continue to try to temporize and compromise. I do not think that his modus operandi will be very effective. I believe he has dithered and wasted his credibility to the point where not much of anyone pays him much mind anymore.

This is pure speculation, but I think the reason that we have not heard anything from him about GC2009 is that the Lambeth Palace apparatchiks are in total confusion about how to spin this latest TEC disaster. They really were left with nothing to hold on to.
Cennydd
Posted: 2009/7/23 18:40  Updated: 2009/7/23 18:42
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6862
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
It seems to me, and to many others, I'm sure, that events have caught up with ++Rowan Williams, and I think we're now seeing proof that he is truly a man out of his element.

I believe that the Church of England's House of Bishops will recognize the Anglican Church in North America as the 39th Province of the Anglican Communion, and he will have to accept it.

If he does, though, this decision, should it be forced upon him, will be met with the disapproval of TEC's Presiding Bishop, who will continue to refuse recognition of the ACNA.

I am sure that TEC will not accept this decision, and they most certainly will refuse to accept second-tier status in the Communion should the Ridley Draft of the Anglican Covenant be adopted, and therefore the only option remaining open to them will be to leave the Communion, and I think they will.

Where will ++Williams stand?

I'm not alone in wishing he'd make that choice known.

The Primates may make that choice for him.

Cennydd
Jon73
Posted: 2009/7/23 19:41  Updated: 2009/7/23 19:41
Just popping in
Joined: 2009/7/21
From:
Posts: 1
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
"The growing acceptance of women priests in many provinces has further alienated Anglo-Catholics from mainstream Anglicanism. A number of evangelicals believe that making women's ordination mandatory rather than voluntary in TEC and now the CofE has further alienated and angered broad-minded Anglicans. ACNA is demonstrating that both views can live side by side in harmony. The actions of the TEC making women's ordination mandatory virtually guaranteed that they would walk away, and three dioceses have recently done so."

I think it a bit premature to say that the ACNA is demonstrating that both views can live side by side in harmony. We are grateful for the ACNA and the early spirit of cooperation. But wo is an issue that must be resolved. We cannot long co-exist with the "two integrities" nonsense that has been suggested. I fear some of our ACNA brethren have for too long imbibed the sensibilities and ethos of the TEC unaware.
myrnajo
Posted: 2009/7/23 20:25  Updated: 2009/7/23 20:25
Quite a regular
Joined: 2009/4/28
From:
Posts: 46
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
There's only one thing he SHOULD do - disassociate the Worldwide Anglican Communion from those heretics in TEc ! What a bunch of equivacators ! No, we didn't overturn B033 we will just disregard it and do our own thing and the AC can lump it ! "We are committed to the Anglican Communion " ! If I used profanity I would say "what a bunch of Bull - - - - "

Because of all the wealth in ECUSA, they have in the past had their own way in EVERYTHING but that wealth is wearing away and they no longer have the upper hand. Rowan GET WITH IT ! Accept the ACNA and let ECUSA GET OUT !
deaconM
Posted: 2009/7/23 21:03  Updated: 2009/7/23 21:03
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2007/2/21
From: At Large
Posts: 97
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
I hope this one gets picked up by the secular media. A very cogent summary of the situation. Thanks David!
FrankV
Posted: 2009/7/23 21:21  Updated: 2009/7/23 21:21
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/5
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 302
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Otispage: If Queen Elizabeth II were Queen Elizabeth I, what you ask for could actually happen; however, she is not and probably never will be. I think she will stick with the corgis and high tea.
myrnajo
Posted: 2009/7/23 22:09  Updated: 2009/7/23 22:09
Quite a regular
Joined: 2009/4/28
From:
Posts: 46
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
I think the only fair way for WO is to let each member of ACNA vote ! Why does it only have to be a Bishop's vote ! We are the "money " behind the Dioceses and they expect our monetary support. Let them earn it and let us get something for our money !
iowakid
Posted: 2009/7/23 23:31  Updated: 2009/7/23 23:31
Just popping in
Joined: 2007/12/6
From:
Posts: 3
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
A book really needs be written about Williams' reign as a study in failed leadership. Could be an excellent study at the Harvard Business School. Lots of "don't do it this way" lessons! As a business manager I personally have been learning much from him. Hate to be so cynical, but there it is.
dturk
Posted: 2009/7/23 23:51  Updated: 2009/7/23 23:51
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/5/26
From:
Posts: 416
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
It is highly unlikely that Rowan Williams will do anything decisive. He will only continue to talk in circles and equivocate. This man is completely bereft of any leadership qualities.
Fidelis
Posted: 2009/7/23 23:53  Updated: 2009/7/23 23:53
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2008/2/25
From: Sydney
Posts: 72
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
I agree that Williams and the prelates of the English church will continue to muddle and dither and plot in the ecclesiastical court as has been the way since Tudor times. But what is new? I believe the Anglican church always simply followed the English flag around the world, as an expression and arm of imperialism.
This worldview is still seen in the structure and behavior of the sad old English church. But as David says, the decision now is whether the Communion will continue as a meaningless hollowed-out structural edifice or whether the Reformed doctrines of the global south will purge the American church, and with it the English.
Its going to be a fascinating ride, but the vast millions of Anglicans worldwide who hugely outnumber the American and English church, couldn't care less. They have long given up on any sense of communion with the apostates.
Ikerliker
Posted: 2009/7/24 0:34  Updated: 2009/7/24 0:34
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/1/16
From: PA
Posts: 2051
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Ruin should retire gracefully and let someone competent do the job. He needs more time to watch the Simpson's anyway.
railbirdbc
Posted: 2009/7/24 0:37  Updated: 2009/7/24 0:37
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/6/6
From:
Posts: 767
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Seeing as this whole scenario is beginning to resemble an opera, I suggest that Rowan only has two choices to make: poison or the dagger.
Cennydd
Posted: 2009/7/24 0:39  Updated: 2009/7/24 0:39
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/30
From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin
Posts: 6862
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
I am sure that ++Rowan is finding that things are not going to be as they used to be, and that adjustments are going to have to be made....with him or without him.

That "John Bull" stubbornness served the English Church well in the past, but times have changed, and their influence in the Anglican Communion has waned to the point where they are outnumbered and outgunned.

The Anglican Communion as we have known it for so long is no more, and a new Anglican Communion without the traditional influence of Canterbury and TEC is a-borning.

Cennydd
bcwright
Posted: 2009/7/24 0:53  Updated: 2009/7/24 5:24
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/4
From:
Posts: 528
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Whatever you think of his views, the fact is that ++Williams is brilliant - but it is the brilliance of the academic, not the politician. In quieter times he might well have had an uneventful term as Archbishop and then retired as professor emeritus at Oxford or Cambridge, but instead the times required a master politician and leader to keep things together during extreme difficulties rather than a University professor, which is the role in which he is clearly more comfortable. Relatively few people, even if they are brilliant, can excel in multiple unrelated areas; one's time and interests are always limited.

Unfortunately I'm not sure what can be done at this point - his indecisiveness has put him and the entire Anglican communion into a corner from which I doubt they can escape unscathed.
Radman
Posted: 2009/7/24 2:14  Updated: 2009/7/24 2:14
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Posts: 13
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Revelation 3:15-16 "I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth." God hates neutrality. The ACC is fence-sitting on barbed wire.
Aneirin
Posted: 2009/7/24 2:59  Updated: 2009/7/24 2:59
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Joined: 2008/12/30
From: Southern California
Posts: 164
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Repent, resign, and retire.
railbirdbc
Posted: 2009/7/24 3:45  Updated: 2009/7/24 3:45
Home away from home
Joined: 2007/6/6
From:
Posts: 767
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Ref. Rowan and Schori, allow me to quote Euripides: "Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad."

This, for me, sums up the true nature of God's judgment in action.
Socrates
Posted: 2009/7/24 12:26  Updated: 2009/7/24 12:26
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Joined: 2005/10/9
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Posts: 45
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
If the man has any shred of self-respect left, he should tender his immediate resignation.
rekterx
Posted: 2009/7/24 13:23  Updated: 2009/7/24 13:24
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Rowan is irrelevant.

I once was talking to an episcopal clergyman who explained to me that compounding the problem that the liberals who ruled over his diocese were actually liberal, they were in fact pretty darn stupid.

Stupid is as stupid does.
rekterx
Posted: 2009/7/24 13:35  Updated: 2009/7/24 13:35
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
bcwright ... the times do not require a politician.

All the ABC had to do was rely on the authority of Scripture, point to the pertinent passages of Scripture, and say, "This is the way we are to walk. And if you walk the other way you are walking away from the faith delivered to us by Christ through his apostles. If you walk away from this faith you walk away from this Church. When you walk away from the Faith of the Church you put your souls in a very dangerous position before God."

But, on the other hand, the ABC played politics instead of leaning on the authority of Scripture.
dgmarker
Posted: 2009/7/24 20:11  Updated: 2009/7/24 20:11
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Just goes to show what many of us have known for eons, namely NEVER PUT AN ACADEMIC IN CHARGE OF ANYTHING AS IT WILL ALMOST ALWAYS RESULT IN DISASTER. Q.E.D.

David Marker, Ph.D.
daveball
Posted: 2009/7/24 20:33  Updated: 2009/7/24 20:33
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
What should Rowan the Lost do? Resign. Remove himself to a monestary, take a vow of silence and seek forgiveness for complicity in allowing the destruction of the Anglican Communion.
bcwright
Posted: 2009/7/24 20:37  Updated: 2009/7/24 20:43
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
"Politician" is often used as a term of derision towards those who often spend their time in endless "discussion" and "negotiation" - but in this case I was thinking more about such individuals as Winston Churchill, who though he did engage in "discussion" and "negotiation" when it suited him, was by no means an indecisive individual!

"Politics" can be much more decisive than a milquetoast approach to problem-solving - just ask Churchill's opponents, especially those in the Axis Powers! But you have to be willing to make the hard choices, and not just hope that the problems will all go away or that you can solve everything by simply "discussing" it enough.

The problem is that ++Williams is too much the academic, and just doesn't seem comfortable making decisions that affect millions of people - especially when anything he decides will be certain to upset at least some of his flock.

It is worth noting that his leverage with the TEc is somewhat limited - he has no direct power over other Provinces; about the strongest thing he could do would be to declare them in some form of impaired communion with Canterbury, and to recognize another body (ACNA?) as a (or maybe even THE) legitimate Anglican body in North America. Still he should have made it plain that this might very well be the eventual result of the TEc's activities.
quissum
Posted: 2009/7/24 22:45  Updated: 2009/7/25 10:17
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Good question, David. An intriguing intellectual dilemma for the erudite, sophisticated ABC. Perhaps one for which his Barthian and "neo-orthodox" sympathies may supply a remedy?

What if he were subtley to regard TEC's too-obvious heresy as rooted within the realm of Historie (the ebb and flow of mundane human history) and the emergence of an orthodox ACNA as an occurrence in Geschichte--rather Heilsgeschichte--i.e. God's sovereign and providential activity within history to effect His eternal saving purpose? Talk about a face/intellect-saving escape hatch!

With this bifurcated vision of historical activity and signification, Rowan could validate both Anglican communions in North America! The one (TEC) is 'valid' for this temporal age, destined (alas!) to perish at the Eschaton; the other (ACNA) being a movement of the Holy Spirit within "holy history" to preserve the sanctity of Christ's one holy and apostolic Church in a land once founded on Christian principles?

But then again, Rowan and the revisionists may prefer resort to this neo-orthodox 'escape hatch' only to 'affirm' the Resurrection occurring in Geschichte but not Historie; or to separate the Jesus of history from the Christ of faith; or to affirm the revelation of God's Word as 'historical' and authoritative only in some upper-story (geschichtliche) sense and so not clearly discernible from the historische perspective of the Bible.
Sagamore
Posted: 2009/7/25 2:56  Updated: 2009/7/25 3:06
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
bcwright wrote:

"Whatever you think of his views, the fact is that ++Williams is brilliant - but it is the brilliance of the academic, not the politician. In quieter times he might well have had an uneventful term as Archbishop and then retired as professor emeritus at Oxford or Cambridge, but instead the times required a master politician and leader to keep things together during extreme difficulties rather than a University professor, which is the role in which he is clearly more comfortable."

Sir, here I must strongly, strongly disagree with you. Perhaps a particle physicist can be merely a brilliant academic, cloistered in a tower of ivory, but when you have people who are to be engaged in such disciplines as the social sciences, theology, anthroplogy, etc; to be 'merely academic' is to be utterly clueless. To engage any of these fields with any success requires, at the very least, the same thing politics does-a deep understanding of *real* human nature and the *real* world.

The desolating liberalism that is grinding down our culture, state, society, and church is virtually entirely thanks to these highly educated imbeciles who very cleverly, and entirely worthlessly, speculate and pontificate upon things the simple janitor who empties their trash bin at night knows better firsthand. We've allowed the very people whom we are supposedly engaging to deal with the most important problems of human existence to devolve into arrogant, isolated sophists of little, if any, practical worth. Nay, they are far worse than simply worthless because we'd certainly be much better off without them at all. Only such a one as Rowan Williams, "vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind", could envision a thing like sodomy being a thing of holiness. A dog-catcher with the terror of the Lord filling his heart could never.
bcwright
Posted: 2009/7/25 6:43  Updated: 2009/7/25 6:43
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
when you have people who are to be engaged in such disciplines as the social sciences, theology, anthropology, etc; to be 'merely academic' is to be utterly clueless. To engage any of these fields with any success requires, at the very least, the same thing politics does-a deep understanding of *real* human nature and the *real* world.

Since one can define "success" any way one wishes, I suppose this is true. However I must disagree that the majority of the "social science" departments in modern academia are particularly noted for their strong connections to "*real* human nature and the *real* world." YMMV.
Dominic
Posted: 2009/7/25 10:11  Updated: 2009/7/25 10:11
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Interesting, but one correction.
Here in the UK the genuine evangelicals within the CofE (as opposed to those who use the title but don't actually adhere to scripture as the source of faith and practice in all matters) would count only 2 bishops as being evangelical, and even then they're not entirely sure.
daveball
Posted: 2009/7/25 18:59  Updated: 2009/7/25 18:59
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
Rowan the Lost "brilliant"? Never. No way. In what way is he "brilliant"? Brilliant means superior intellect, superior intelligence, very gifted understanding, ability to solve complex problems and a host of other qualities, none of which describe Williams. He may have studied broadly, read well, be able to talk about "eruidite" topics but none of that makes him "brilliant". Insane asylums are full of people who talk the same way.

Williams is a well spoken failure. He failed to grasp and react to the forces that are tearing his communion apart. I am not confusing leadership with brilliance here although he is totally lacking in leadership, also. Brilliance is not sitting around a campfire with equally clueless academics and debating angels on the head of a pin.

While Rowan the Lost may not have had all the tools to stamp out the rebellion, he had some and failed miserably to use them.

Rowan Williams is a clueless failure. Not a "brilliant intellectual".
Sagamore
Posted: 2009/7/25 19:58  Updated: 2009/7/25 19:58
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
"Since one can define 'success' any way one wishes, I suppose this is true."

Well, I would personally, at least, define success in these fields as producing something that actually broadly benefits mankind. But you've sort of struck to why some of these disciplines are almost inherently absurd. A very clever but inoperable machine does not spell success for an engineeer, but for a social scientist it is enough to get tenure.

"However I must disagree that the majority of the 'social science' departments in modern academia are particularly noted for their strong connections to '*real* human nature and the *real* world.' YMMV."

We're not at all in disagreement on this-it was actually my point. Williams is just an unusually grand example of it.
Brize
Posted: 2009/7/26 17:20  Updated: 2009/7/26 17:20
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
"The implications for the Dennis Canon are enormous. TEC now bills itself as a hierarchical church. It will have to live and die by that ecclesiastical sword. For those watching from the sidelines, nobody can seriously have expected the 2009 General Convention to hold back from overturning B033, the fig leaf of respectability behind which TEC has been sheltering since 2006, and in Anaheim it finally crossed the Rubicon."

I think that the river TEC crodded was actually the Styx
Newshound
Posted: 2009/7/27 21:21  Updated: 2009/7/27 21:21
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
I don't know exactly how much authority the ABC has, But had the Anglican Communion expelled TEC as I believed had been discussed, there would have been clear lines of authority drawn.

Also, Archbishop Williams should publicly rebuke Mrs. Schori for her statements on salvation: The 39 Articles of Communion are very clear that salvation comes through personal saving faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins... there is no other way
sfbigelow
Posted: 2009/7/27 21:27  Updated: 2009/7/27 21:27
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Posts: 20
 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
If they life and die but the dennis cannan. If we are recognized by the AoC. Then we win the lawsuits because we are now a member of the hieracal church. Is that the way this works?
myrnajo
Posted: 2009/8/4 14:33  Updated: 2009/8/4 14:33
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
If 70-80% of the AC have already disassociated themselves from TEc, as I have read, I can't see how Rowan can allow them to stay in the AC. Surely those Christians who would not even receive Holy Communiuon with them will not accept this "two-track" situation in the AC. I also read that Rowan says TEc will not be allowed to vote or sit on committees in the AC. I hope that is true ! So... why not ask them to "GET OUT " I know he doesn't have the power to expel them but he could maybe "embarrass" them by telling them nobody wants them. Think they would take the hint ? Nah... they ARE TEC ! Big Deal !
DPJ071
Posted: 2009/8/6 20:09  Updated: 2009/8/6 20:09
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
What should ABC do? Simple. Recognize ACNA and then resign. I don't understand why he is such a pacifist when it comes to TEC. TEC is slowing losing its members which means is money, which has always been good for the Anglican Communion in respect to third world countries. But at this point, money should be an issue anymore. I think when all of the other Provinces begin to shun TEC he won't have a choice on ACNA.
myrnajo
Posted: 2009/8/14 12:34  Updated: 2009/8/14 12:34
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 Re: GC2009: Rowan Among The Ruins: What Should the ABC Do...
I suppose I could live with WO as long as I don't have to live in a Diocese that allows it !

Never will I be a member of a Parish that has a woman Priest !

As I said - I AM 70 YEARS OLD !
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