Exclusives : ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church Underway, Says Bishop Duncan
ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church Underway, Says Bishop Duncan
God will sort out issue of women's ordination
By David W. Virtue in Bedford
www.virtueonline.org
6/22/2009
BEDFORD, TX: The Bishop of Pittsburgh and archbishop-elect of the Anglican Church of North America, The Rt. Rev. Robert Duncan said that a great Reformation of the Christian Church is underway and North American Anglicans are in the midst of it.
He told an overflow audience of some 800 Anglicans in St. Vincent's Cathedral that while much of mainline Protestantism is finding itself adrift from its moorings by refusing submission to the Word of God, there is an ever-growing stream of North American Protestantism that has re-embraced Scripture's authority.
Duncan said the new North American Anglican province is the vanguard of a renewed orthodoxy.
According to Bishop Duncan, the face of Christianity in North America is changing with both Protestant and Pentecostal brothers and sisters being drawn into "the Great Tradition" that classic Anglicans know so well.
"Our God is up to something very big, both with us and with others. The Father truly is drawing His children together again in a surprising and sovereign move of the Holy Spirit. He is again Re-forming His Church."
Duncan said there was is a "keen interest" among Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters about what was is happening here in Bedford. "The whole of the Christian Church senses re-alignment. God is bringing about a confluence of Evangelical, Catholic and Pentecostal. We are daring to recover what Anglicanism at its best has always been about."
Duncan said theThe whole world is looking at Bedford stated Duncan. "Are we ready? Are we willing?"
The archbishop-designate said that Satan, whom he called calls "the enemy", had to be, must be resisted and that the re-gathering of a faithful Anglican church in North American is among the enemy's greatest concerns. "We should not be surprised if he tries to break in here. He will attempt to lure us back to old ways and old hurts and old fights."
Duncan reflected on the thorny issue of women's ordination saying that "for those who believe the ordination of women to be a grave error, and for those who believe it scripturally justifiable - reflecting Global Anglicanism - that we should be in mission together until God sorts us out. It is not perfect, but it is enough."
Drawing on the history of the movement that has culminated in the formation of the new province, Duncan recalled the late '90s at Anglican Congresses among the Anglican Diaspora...the heady days in the American Anglican Council, the First Promise Movement within the Episcopal Church, Plano 2003 and Hope and a Future 2005 and the coming together of the US and Canada and the missionary interventions of Rwanda, Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria and the Southern Cone who have helped form a "recognizably Anglican Province here."
Touching obliquely on The Episcopal Church, Duncan stated that many have sacrificed a great deal to follow Jesus to this place. "Many of us have lost properties, sacred treasures, incomes, pensions, standing and friends, but few had suffered to the point of shedding their blood (though some global émigrés had)."
Bishop Duncan called for a return to "muscular Christianity" that once reigned in the US and Canada. "No cross, no crown. No pain, no gain."
"I hear it over and over, there is no one here who would go back."
Ft. Worth Bishop Jack Leo Iker called the occasion both "historic and momentous" reminding delegates in the cathedral that this was the Diocese of Ft. Worth established in 1982 and that they were maintaining the faith and order of the Catholic Church.
END
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| Poster | Thread |
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| LGMarshall | Posted: 2009/6/22 21:17 Updated: 2009/6/22 21:17 |
Quite a regular   Joined: 2008/11/25 From: Posts: 54 |
 Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U...In Thanksgiving to God the Father:
'To the holy and faithful brothers & sisters of Anglican Church of North America... you were once alienated from God by the false doctrines of The Epsicopal Church, but now God has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation -- if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard in the beginning and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven. Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you.... be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that you may have the full riches of complete understanding , in order that you may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the teasures of wisdom and knowledge. This is told so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.' from Colossians 1&2. |
| JRoss | Posted: 2009/6/22 21:48 Updated: 2009/6/22 21:48 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2004/3/15 From: New Jersey Posts: 895 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... As much as I am against the ordination of women (Actually I was once for it until the feminazi lesbians took over in TEC), after watching live the ratification of our constitution, there is so much more that binds us than seperates us. Praise God!
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| jfmckenna | Posted: 2009/6/22 21:53 Updated: 2009/6/22 21:53 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/2/4 From: Posts: 495 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... Let's hope and pray that the bishop is able to see more than most of us, because a casual glance around reveals little more than apathy and fatalism -- the apathy of those who don't care about the important issues of our church right now and the fatalism of those who have witnessed the unrelenting progress of the gay agenda and the viewpoint of those who take a relativistic stance on Christian orthodoxy. We need a rebirth of passionate commitment and if there are signs of that, then wonderful.
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| Cennydd | Posted: 2009/6/22 22:22 Updated: 2009/6/22 22:26 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... This has been a long time coming indeed, and thanks be to God, we are finally embarked on what I call the Second Anglican Reformation.
This is the Lord's work. May it spread far and wide, and by the grace of God, it will! We have but to trust in Him. He has never failed us, and He never will. Cennydd |
| Cennydd | Posted: 2009/6/22 22:55 Updated: 2009/6/22 22:55 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/10/30 From: Los Banos, CA, Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin Posts: 6684 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... On a personal note, I have worked and waited for six long and often frustrating years for this day, as many of you on this blog may know.
I told my vicar and fellow Bishop's Committee members that I intended to stay with it from beginning to end; that I would prefer to serve as a delegate or alternate delegate to diocesan convention until the job was done, no matter how long it might take. As you know, it is the delegate's responsibility....along with that of their vicar or priest....to see to it that their people are kept informed (within appropriate limits) about matters affecting them and their Church. I have tried to do that as far as I am capable. The work is still not finished....and for those who do as I do, it never will be. God's work is NEVER finished. Cennydd |
| UKUSER | Posted: 2009/6/23 8:55 Updated: 2009/6/23 8:57 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/21 From: United Kingdom Posts: 241 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... Good news up to a point - but the track record of the last reformation suggests that it could move in directions that 'the good bishop' may not necessarily approve of. It will be a process that is likely to be far more radical than any of us can envisage. Moderates like Duncan are likely to be swept aside as it progresses. I myself have abandoned belief in Episcopal authority in response to the disgraceful manipulation and depravity manifested at Lambeth. Others are likely to do the same as any reformation gets underway. Still, at least Bishop Duncan sees a need for one so it's one cheer for his comments.
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| Isaac | Posted: 2009/6/23 14:52 Updated: 2009/6/23 14:52 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2004/3/1 From: Texas Posts: 595 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... Unfortunately, there are many in TEC who, while opposed to same sex sex and same sex unions, still are loyal to TEC. I suppose the rationalization is that "that stuff" has not come to my parish, yet.
I myself have not left...yet. While I have been critical of Don Wimberly (Bishop of Texas), he has been a supporter of the orthodox. He has supported Windsor. The problem is, he has also been a "company man," and supported staying in TEC. The new guy, Andy Doyle, is smart enough to appease the big, conservative parishes (St. Martin's, St. John the Divine, et al), but he will not lead the Faithful away from the heretics and to the Righteous. We (those Faithful still in TEC) need a grass roots movement towards ACNA and away from TEC. We can do it with our checkbooks and our feet. May God bless Robert Duncan and Jack Iker. Isaac |
| profpk | Posted: 2009/6/23 17:23 Updated: 2009/6/23 17:23 |
Just popping in  Joined: 2005/9/25 From: Posts: 9 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... Death and Resurrection
A Church dies; a Church is born! The Episcopal Church implodes. The Anglican Church in North America commences. Two Anglican provinces occupy the same territory. The curtain in the temple is rent asunder again, As schism divides worshippers into two armies of God. One calls itself progressive; the other traditional. Labeling their opponents revisionist vs. reasserter. The media ascribes the split as to whether homosexual mores Shall be accepted in all offices and rites of the Church. Scholars say it is a struggle for truth, for the revealed Word, As being fixed, or open to reinterpretation in changing times. Alas, there once was a dear old church, formally known as The Protestant Episcopal Church in the U.S.A. We were proud that it functioned as a big tent, Encompassing a wide range of theological differences. The rector of the parish was called mister, Wearing a cassock, surplice, and stole, Conducting Morning Prayer with its canticles and psalms. Celebrating Holy Eucharist monthly with prayerful preparation. We were known as God's frozen people, The Republican Party at prayer, The movers and shakers, the country club members. Guilty of the great sins of pride, arrogance, indifference and snobbery. We enjoyed the majesty of the prayers, the beauty of the hymns, and chatting at the coffee hour. |
| ACLins | Posted: 2009/6/23 23:09 Updated: 2009/6/23 23:09 |
Home away from home Joined: 2005/3/31 From: Kentucky Posts: 234 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... The timing of the Anglican Church of Ghana announcement that it will ordain women priests is curious.
We can trust God to sort out the issue of women priests, but the Church must do its part in seeking to discover the origins of this primal office and understand the essence of the priesthood. The question that must be answered is whether this ancient institution which has always pertained to men alone is part of the fixed order of creation (ontologically an eternal Ordinance) or is the priesthood something that humans established and which we can shape to our liking. |
| UKUSER | Posted: 2009/6/24 13:18 Updated: 2009/6/24 13:18 |
Home away from home Joined: 2004/7/21 From: United Kingdom Posts: 241 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... The fact of the matter is that every male and female believer in Christ is ordained by God to be a priest.The myth that one needs a special priesthood apart from this has inflicted untold damage on Christianity. TEC's well known problems are just one 'fruit' of this false teaching. The origins of 'this primal office' lie in a mixture of second temple Judaism (which Christ abolished) and Greeco-Roman paganism.These are hardly healthy sources to base an important church doctrine on.
Those misguided traditionalists who try to revive the dignity of the priesthood are kissing a corpse. UKUSER P.S. I don't believe in a separate caste of Bishops either |
| BGold | Posted: 2009/6/24 14:37 Updated: 2009/6/24 14:37 |
Just popping in Joined: 2009/6/17 From: Posts: 4 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... This attitude towards WO is frankly irresponsible. It's either a heresy or something that would be a sin to deny women, with no middle ground. I believe scripture and tradition are very clear on it being the former, but even if I'm wrong this can't simply be put aside.
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| joemahler | Posted: 2009/6/25 10:41 Updated: 2009/6/25 10:41 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2008/12/8 From: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 55 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... Duncan:
Duncan reflected on the thorny issue of women's ordination saying that "for those who believe the ordination of women to be a grave error, and for those who believe it scripturally justifiable - reflecting Global Anglicanism - that we should be in mission together until God sorts us out. It is not perfect, but it is enough." This statement is one of the major reasons that the ANCA is doomed from the beginning. The Scriptures are abundantly clear that women ordination is not in the ecclesiastical polity of the Church. Opposing theologies cannot co-exist without compromise. The people of God have no right to compromise that which has been revealed. As Moses wrote in Deutoronomy 29:29, "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law." |
| joemahler | Posted: 2009/6/25 11:04 Updated: 2009/6/25 11:05 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2008/12/8 From: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 55 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... UKUSER,
True the the old Levitical priesthood was abolished along with the sacrifice of animals for sin. Christ is our High Priest and our Sacrifice, our Oblation full and perfect. The only sacrifice now commanded is that we be a living sacrifice which is holy and acceptable to God. The old priesthood cannot be revived but each and every Christian is a part of the priesthood of all believers. Those who wish to revive a priesthood of men set apart from everyone else with special "powers" is simply a tradition of man to make the Word of God to none effect. Is not the Priesthood of Christ sufficient for us? The office of Chruch leadership is better called "ministry." Its root meaning is in service. The service is to God and to his people. It is not overlordship. Christians are brothers and sisters, not fathers and sons. St. Paul often called himself a slave. That is true Christians are slaves to God and to righteousness having been freed from the slavery to sin and the devil; but Christians are brethern amongst themselves. True Holy Writ does not establish a separate order of ministry called bishop. There is no distinction in the Bible between bishops and presbyters (elders). Note: In the above priest refers to the translation of the Hebrew "khohen" and and Greek "hierus"; whereas presbyter refers to the Greek "presbyterous" which means elder, a title of honor. |
| rekterx | Posted: 2009/6/25 14:38 Updated: 2009/6/25 14:38 |
Just popping in Joined: 2008/9/29 From: Posts: 8 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... "True Holy Writ does not establish a separate order of ministry called bishop. There is no distinction in the Bible between bishops and presbyters (elders)."
From one perspective this statement is technically true. But from another perspective this statement is very misleading. Bishop and presbyter are used interchangeably in the New Testament. But we also find in the New Testament first hand evidence of what has become known as the historic episcopate of the Church. Take Paul's relationship with the Church at Ephesus and with his relationship with his protege, Timothy. In Acts 20:17-38 you will find Paul exhorting the the elders of the Ephesian Church to be faithful in shepherding the flock. Paul does this because he is certain he will never return to this Church. But one thing you do NOT find him doing is charging the elders with making/ordaining new elders and deacons. If you read I Timothy, however, you will find Paul addressing Timothy concerning his responsibilities toward the Church in Ephesus. What do we find Paul telling Timothy? We find Paul giving Timothy directions concerning appointing elders and deacons. The Apostles were the ones who appointed/ordained elders and deacons. And now Paul is giving this ministry to Timothy. In time the word bishop came to refer to the men who continued in the ministry of the Apostles. If you go to the island of Crete and visit the Eastern Churches you will find that they have a record of all their bishops and that the first Bishop of Crete is . . . surprise! . . .Titus! Imagine that. Historical evidence of an episcopacy that stretches back to the days of the Apostles and coincides with the Scriptural evidence that Paul commissioned Titus to carry out an Apostolic ministry that the elders of the Church weren't. Read Titus. Paul gave Titus essentially the same job in Crete as he gave to Timothy in Ephesus. Call them bishops, apostolic successors, or anything you want to call them. But they have been there since the earliest days of the Church and in very short historical order the Church reserved the title of "Bishop" for these men which have succeeded the Apostles. "True Holy Writ" provides first hand evidence of an order of ministers which carried on the ministry of the Apostles. The next thing you know someone will be on here telling people the Creeds aren't in the Bible. |
| joemahler | Posted: 2009/6/25 15:11 Updated: 2009/6/25 15:11 |
Quite a regular Joined: 2008/12/8 From: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 55 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... The term elder in the Bible could mean several things. An elder could be a elder man or a member of a council (council of elders). He may also be in the position of leadership. It is important to distinguish these distinctions in reading the Bible. The Bible makes no distinction between the bishop and the presbyter, their ministry is the same. This is not misleading.
True the Creeds are not found in the Bible. There you go; you have it right here. But the statements of the Creeds are verifiable by the Bible. The Creeds do not stand along, their authoritative teachings is found in the Bible. They are not to be teated as self sufficient but rather speaking to specifics points of Biblical doctrine. As such one may say the Creeds are found in the Bible but not in the exact form that they appear. The Nicean Creed invokes the authority of the Scriptures as proof of what it states. |
| R_G_Jordan | Posted: 2009/6/27 22:33 Updated: 2009/6/27 22:34 |
Just can't stay away  Joined: 2007/12/29 From: Posts: 121 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... On the Cotton Country Anglican web log I ran across the following comment:
"For today, for this 'Season', let us rejoice with our fellow Christians who have come together for the cultivation and planting of a new vineyard in the Kingdom of God. May the seeds that they sow be good seeds, and may those seeds produce mature plants that bear good fruit. Praise God from whom all blessings flow! God's peace to all." I posted the following response. I believe that is germane to the topic of this thread: "In the Bible it is God who plants the vineyard and who owns it. We are just hirelings whom he calls to work in his vineyard. He is the one who plants the vines and he is also the one who makes them grow. As Jesus reminds us, we are also vines and God is the master vinedresser, tending the vines. "In the ACNA God has opened a new part of his vineyard. He has taken some vinestocks from an older part of the vineyard and replanted them in this new part of the vineyard. He has also taken vinestocks from elsewhere in his vineyard and planted them. He is going to graft other vines onto those transplanted vinestocks, vines that are good producers of fruit. He is also going to prune the vines to give them an opportunity to bear abundant fruit. "A vinedresser knows that if a vine has too many leaves and tendrils, all its energy goes into nourishing these appendages instead of bearing fruit. Therefore the vinedress must drastically prune the vine in order for it to produce fruit. "God's time is not our time and the vine-grafting and vine pruning may last several human life times. But then the vineyard is God's and not ours.' |
| paninoj | Posted: 2009/6/30 13:29 Updated: 2009/6/30 13:29 |
Just popping in Joined: 2008/3/28 From: Posts: 5 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... ++Duncan said ""for those who believe the ordination of women to be a grave error...."
This shows the fatal flaw. We don't "believe [it] to be a grave error," we understand that it is impossible for a woman to be ordained. This is the problem, that although the overwhelming majority of bishops, priests, and laity "get the point," the man on top insists on bringing his cronies along, regardless. Unless ACNA throws off this new age innovation, it will follow the same path as PECUSA, just six years behind it is all. |
| leader1111 | Posted: 2009/7/7 3:49 Updated: 2009/7/7 3:49 |
Home away from home Joined: 2006/6/19 From: Hobe Sound, Florida Posts: 233 |
Re: ACNA'09: Great Reformation of Christian Church U... Christ had every opportunity to have Apostles that were women. He chose not to, and he clearly explained why. Unless Abp. Duncan has a different bible to everyone else Christ clearly led by example and expressed the wishes he wanted Christians to follow.
The 1979 Prayer Book Rite II is the overwhelming liturgy in use. No one uses the 1928 or Rite I. Different dioceses can ordain women or not depending on their vote. We need a broad and accepting church as home to Classical Anglicanism. Unity is paramount and “we should be in mission together until God sorts us out .... (on WO)”. We need to determine God’s will in matters of faith. And in which century or millennium will that be? We all recognize TECs view of the church in 1979, but would you believe its the ACNAs view in 2009. This is called the “Theory of lets have another vote, and continue our dialogue”. Duncan said the new North American Anglican province is the vanguard of a renewed orthodoxy. Huh. Which orthodoxy are you talking about. The Catholics and Orthodox have very clearly not changed, and have clearly told the ACNA to get rid of WO and embrace the filioque clause. Once again we have a group saying they are traditional, but as we know all too well saying you are traditional, classical or any other nice word without the beliefs is just that, words. As we discovered in TEC the vast majority of pew sitters believe their leaders. Should we not be honest and say that the ACNA is TEC Light, the same beer with less calories. After all, the ACNA was happy with man made TEC votes up until 2003. Its just the last votes that didn’t go your way, and you didn’t care for and believe. Ah, man loves to pick and chose what to believe. I think the ACNA is a great Protestant church to join if you are Protestant, but I believe the Anglo Catholics have again made the wrong decision in joining a church that is not Catholic, nor traditional, nor classical, nor orthodox. |
